Werewolf XXX - Tol-in-Elendili - The Isle of the Were-Faithfuls

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Blast! I knew I'd left it too late. Now I have to read through all these posts before making any proper comments.
If nothing else, the death was... poetic? 'Seven' things an' all that stuff...

Back soon to make proper comments...

[Thinlómien]

I can't see how Lalaith is suspicious. I think she sounds very innocent and reasonable and I don't think she's making an issue about Mith's comment. I don't see Mith as particularly suspicious either. I think their discussion about gifteds is one most probably between two innocents. Of course you can't be sure of anyone's innocence at this phase, but these two ladies don't ring my alarms right now.

Originally Posted by Kath

...the Hunter and Ranger know each other and so we will be spared the hell that is two Gifted's going after each other without realising it!

You've obviously forgotten the disastrous possibility of a hunter (or a ranger) being against the seer.... *coughyouandDiamondkilledmormonce* Anyway, I think the situation is pretty equal; there is four (instead of the normal three) baddies and they have a helper, but in other hand, there's more ordos than normal and the faithfuls have only one kill per night, as Nogrod noted. (As a sidenote, I think that comment of his was a bit weird... I mean, it was kind of Noggie-like silent criticism about his side being outnumbered...)

I've been often persuaded (either by myself or my fellow villagers) to lynch an innocent Glirdy, since he's acting in an odd way, so I'll be a bit more careful this time. Whether he's innocent or guilty, he's weird. Keeping that in mind, I have nothing against him... yet. (No this does not mean I think we should not pay attention to him or not to try to analyse him, this just means that we should keep in mind that he often tends to seem very suspicious even when he's innocent.) I think some people are making a bit too big fuss about a first post...

Originally Posted by Nog

What bothers me is that I tend to agree with Roa here (as we should be the cat and the dog - which one of us is what is an open question)...

Dog = wolf and I've not forgotten about Valier's werecats game, so what about lynching these two? Then we'd be done with 50% of the Faithfuls.

Originally Posted by Sauce

...it does seem to me that Roa and Nogrod are being unduly harsh on those who have not had an opportunity to speak so far.

It is but little over three hours since Mac's body was discovered, and yet Roa and Nogrod are behaving as though it is a crime not to have posted yet. I agree that we want everyone to speak, but I hardly think it incriminating that there are a fair few who have not been able to do so thus far.

I disagree with you here. They've talked about silent posters, but I don't see the, as "behaving as though it is a crime not to have posted yet". I think they're their normal "speak up people"-selves. I can assure you they're far worse when they're really harsh on silent people...

Mänwe's totally weird, but not necessarily in a bad way. He's had some good points.

Rikae's quick vote on Mänwe is quite weird. I mean, she just comes, makes a few points, votes and leaves. Of course she might be in a hurry, but why didn't she say that. She might have tried to lay pressure on Mänwe to get him jumpy to see if he's a wolf or not, but I'm not too sure about that option. After all, there had been some pressure on him already. If she wanted to pressure test someone, why had she to choose Mänwe? Speaking of which I think his calmness speaks for his innocence.

Pretty much everyone seems their normal selves and I have hardly any suspicions. I'll reread the thread again next, and see if I can come up with anything more intelligent and original than this first-impression post...

edit: xed with Legate and Hookbill

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Originally Posted by Mänwe

Though i'd add as a sailor quick decisions saves lives, and while i don't cast aspersions often nor am I accusing now who be the culprit, but I am eager to find out who twas that perpetrated this foul deed, and i've never much liked the look of Hookbill....

The only murderin' I'll do is in a slanderous story in a Newspaper form.

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Then again, I rather agree with you about that Hookbill fellow

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me! Look, I know the story about your house being burned down was only half true, but it was a slow news day!

Originally Posted by Manwe

I am glad you see sense and agree with me. Has he been in your mind of late?

Now, the main reason I've refrained from joining these games is because I'm not too good a judge of character and I tend not to read into what people say... but it seems to me that you are hinting at Old Saucepan 'O as being a what do you call it... seer or whatever. Surely suggesting it would put him in danger and we would want to keep him in case he proves helpful, and shouting, "I say! I think he's the seer" will surely either lead the wolves / Were Faithfuls onto him. So... bad form old chap...

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Sorry, missed this. No, like you, I just don't like the look of him.

What the? I! Do I have something on my face?

Legate Surely everyone is a bit jumpy on Day One? I mean, someone just got killed. Let's not jump on people's backs until we have a bigger trampoline... But I see your point and this are Serous matter and we must consider all angles... I'll need to think about all this.

[Brinniel]

Well, as I am quite new to all this, I have been observing for the last several hours trying to figure out exactly what to say. I have a tendency to be great observer and sometimes forget to jump right in, so I will be sure to do my best. So, here I shall take my first plunge...

Many seem to be accusing Manwe, and while he may be "harsh" as Legate puts it, he is also new to this and perhaps harshness is simply his style...foolish maybe, but that's no reason to immediately point fingers at him. I do not see any reason to suspect him...not yet at least. I think I would rather like to observe him a little longer first...

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me!

Hmm...now Hookbill, you seem a bit nervous about all these one-liners made on you. Do you have a reason to be worried? Hiding something perhaps?

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Hmm...now Hookbill, you seem a bit nervous about all these one-liners made on you. Do you have a reason to be worried?

Wouldn't you?

It just seemed a bit random that they were all being so mean.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

(Cpl. Hicks in the movie Aliens)

I like to see Lommy's, Hookbill's and Brinniel's posts here. (I think it is far better to come and see five new posts since you left than seeing a 40-post long thread like I did in the morning.)

First, only in reaction to them, I have to say only that I quite agree with Lommy's post. To your concerns, Brinniel & Hookbill, I supposed I can bear the one-liners about Hookbill only as a funny, maybe a little rpg-ish chatter (since he hasn't even posted when it was spoken about), or at least I thought so. I think it'd be better to be careful not to start anything from nothing. This is/are a serious thread, right? Do you really seriously think they are accusing you, Hookbill? And Brinniel, do you really seriously suspect Hookbill of something because of this? If not, I think it'd be better not to even start with it, or at least, if it seems we decided not to be too much roleplayish this time (which is a shame, I think).

In general. Seems to me (only seems, I might be badly mistaken) many people assume too much here. I already said that about Mänwe, the same is with the Saucepan Man (see Lommy's post). Although I understand we need a good deal of people who are more forward, because otherwise we'll never move out of place, too many accusations won't help us, I think.

I think I now understand how important is that all people post, because otherwise there is nothing to learn. And who sits and says nothing, is likely a wolf (err, Faithful) - or in worse case, he is a villager (who is not worth anything for the community, if I say it very nastily). But the wolves also need to go around and make a mess by putting us on wrong track, thus, if everyone participates in the discussion, possibly "the one who speaks the loudest bears the banner of the Tree".

Mänwe seems generally most suspicious to me because of, as I mentioned, his ruthless behavior. Also for some unknown reason he seems "mixing apples with pears" (Roa with Nogrod). Perhaps I am completely ignorant, but while Nogrod might seem a little bit suspicious (but so far I put Nogrod under the cathegory "posts strange, but perhaps it's normal like that and there are more who post similar"), I don't see anything suspicious about Roa, and I don't know where some - namely Mänwe, the Saucepan Man and Garin - take that she seems suspicious.

Anyway, I tried to express my feelings on all the matters here, and this is just the best I can do for now. Hopefully, in time I'll learn how to walk in it better. I'll be back, but don't know when yet, but surely before the evening.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Do you really seriously think they are accusing you, Hookbill?

Ho-ho-ho! Of course not! (But they can expect slander in upcoming Newspapers *Evil grin* )

I agree with Legate that Mänwe has been just a tad ruthless. I will, for now, put it down to over eagerness or possibly chocolate. As I've said, I don't think I'm the kind of person to deal out death and judgement, even the wisest cannot see all ends.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Exactly. And also as the awful Elf-creatures say, "advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise". I supposed it is not serious, Hookbill, but Brinniel's reaction seemed serious to me. Perhaps I am getting paranoid from all this (and it's just the first day!).

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And Brinniel, do you really seriously suspect Hookbill of something because of this?

No, I can honestly say I do not seriously suspect anyone in particular at this point of time.
Though, perhaps, Hookbill's reaction was slightly overdone.

I still feel hesitant about accusing Manwe, no matter how harsh he may seem. I don't know...I will have to think about this some more before casting in my vote...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Perhaps I am getting paranoid from all this (and it's just the first day!).

When I first read this thread through, my first impression was that this is the most paranoid first day ever. But probably I was just exaggerating...

[the guy who be short]

I'm unhappy with day one banter. Day ones almost always end in the lynching of an innocent for the most spurious evidence; thus far, I have seen nothing much condemning from anybody.

I should mention that there is a prophecy to be fulfilled. Kath is mean, and should be lynched. Well... give me a reason not to, Kathwin.

I will also say that our votes so far are for Manwe and Nogrod, who have both been loud. Other than them, suspicion seems to fall on those that are loud, simply because they have something to say. This can then be analysed and twisted, whether intentionally or not, in all sorts of ways. For this reason, I have always been more inclined to suspect the quiet, who seem to "fly under the radar".

And so I will mention with only mild suspicion (which is more than I have for anybody else) the quiet:
Holbytlass admits to being quiet.
Kath (prophecy!) hasn't said much yet.
Gil-galad has said nothing worth mentioning.
Glirdan has said little (and, on a side-note, said Adieu. Which God, eh? ) However, it interests me that among all the quiet people, people have jumped on Glirdan alone. I wonder why. I doubt it is Faithfuls, for they never seem to have coherent strategies for Day 1, wishing rather to let the ordos confuse themselves. So why have all you people jumped on Glirdan and not any of the others on this list? Roa, SpM, Durelin, this means you.
Lalaith and Mith, other than the early posts, have been very quiet.
Nothing from The Might.

I appreciate we have several hours of Daylight left, so I will not attack those who have said nothing. For all I know, they could come and say something valuable in a few hours. I am therefore most suspicious of those who have spoken without saying anything.

[Holbytlass]

It is quite the canundrum of DAY1's. Day one lynchee is usually a high poster voted for by those who wish to be helpful to the village and only rarely is a baddie caught. Quiet/nontalkers are rarely lynched as it's seen as bad form to lynch someone without giving them a chance to speak.

So at this point, all those who have been highly accused/voted for and those doing the major accusing I find innocent at this time.
namelyManwe Nogrod Lommy Durelin Rikae that's not to say that those who accused hadn't gotten a hit but we just don't know till the deed is done.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

wow there is a lot of people really confusing me. . .

People seem to be very jumpy and are reacting somewhat strongly to small things, normally I would be happy to see such actions as it is good for analyzing. This time however the people who do so are not someone I have played with before and therefor it might just be "paranoia" as Legate puts it.

I do not know what to think about Holby's post she does not say much, mostly it is just random comments, save for her thoughts on Mänwe and the votes he has gained. It just seems very neutral, but I am fearing that the main reason I look at this with suspicion is because not long ago I encountered a "Bad Holby"

Hookbill seems innocent to me and do not understand the fuzz there was made about his post.

[Thinlómien]

Good point about that jumping on quiet ones, TGWBS, and I'm glad to hear from you. Now there's just one villager who hasn't posted yet and many jolly Day1 hours to go...

~*~

Holby, I find it weird that you put me on that list... I mean, hardly anyone has accused me this far, and I don't think I've been accusing much either (I've just said that Rikae's a bit weird and one little comment of Nogrod's is odd)...

~*~

I hate voting this early. But no net access home = early votes. (In future - assuming I'm alive - I will vote a few hours later, but today I just can't hang aruond in the school library later.)

++Rikae

She's the only one to catch my eye today. I'm not very convinced of her guilt, but she's the biggest suspect I have at this phase. Besides that I can't get her early vote on Mänwe I think she jumps on Mänwe a bit too eagerly. Her case against him is not - in my opinion - very reasoned, or voteworthy. (But I'm afraid this case against Rikae isn't one either. The difference - or how I see it - is that I need to vote right now and as far as I know, Rikae didn't have to vote when she voted.) But I consider it a fact that you rarely have anything reasonable to go on before Day2, or late Day1.

Also, I'm keeping my eye on Durelin, she's a bit too fast to accuse too...

dit: xed with Rune

[Kath]

I should mention that there is a prophecy to be fulfilled. Kath is mean, and should be lynched. Well... give me a reason not to, Kathwin.

And you shall have one! Go back to that thread, read the next post down and you shall find the following comment, typed by you:

Hehe, Kath, I'd never do that.

So my dear if you go against your word and vote for me on the basis of a prophecy you yourself negated, well, that wouldn't be very innocent looking now would it?

Ah so, what's been going on? Manwe seems to have got himself into quite a bit of bother. Right now I don't think it's anything suspicious. He's a newbie (right?) finding his own place in these games. I for one want to see how he behaves in later days. If it turns out that the four he named really are the Faithful's we may have another Valier on our hands! At any rate, I don't want to see him lynched at present.

Legate looks to be the self-appointed voice of reason. I'm all for making sure people don't take things too personally but with his mediating between Hookbill and Brinniel (something there was no need for) he seems to be trying to set himself up as the calm one. I don't know, I just don't like it.

Hookbill appears to be behaving normally to me. The accusations against him haven't actually been accusations in the sense that people think he's guilty (except possibly from Manwe who keeps repeating it) and he hasn't been overly defensive. His replies were amusing more than offended.

Durelin apparently flourishes without an occupation to fall back on! Perhaps we shouldn't allow her one is future games.

Got to go again. It's good that people have started to talk, we've had a comment from all but one player now is that right? Hopefully they'll have spoken by the time I get back and I'll have to whole village to have a quick look at.

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Kath

So my dear if you go against your word and vote for me on the basis of a prophecy you yourself negated, well, that wouldn't be very innocent looking now would it?

Ah, but we are an island of treacherous Numenoreans! What are these values that you speak of - loyalty and integrity? Sounds mighty Faithful to me!

(I'd just like to make clear that the whole Kath-prophecy was a joke. My bone to pick with her was quietness, which she is overcoming.)

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Holby, I find it weird that you put me on that list... I mean, hardly anyone has accused me this far, and I don't think I've been accusing much either (I've just said that Rikae's a bit weird and one little comment of Nogrod's is odd)...

I merely stated a handful of names that are in the thick of things on this first day and are usually innocent. The pattern of vocals taking each other out sort of thing, as in you voting for Rikae for voting Manwe-all three of you are most likely innocent. All are vocal. But by all means I can put you on my forming suspicious list .

[The Saucepan Man]

Unfortunately, this day holds much for me on another plane of existence, so I’ll try to get my thoughts down on all that has transpired while I have been away in one go. Apologies, as always, for the length. My nickname, it seems, is well earned.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

This I would call hypochrisy indeed. You are yourself making an appearance of trying to get people speaking but nicely use the similar intentions of others as points against them...

I fail to see any hypocrisy here at all. While I am keen for people to speak as much as possible, I am content to give them more than a few hours to do so. You, on the other hand, appeared to be rather cheesed off that most of the village had not spoken in the early hours. And, as I said, I didn’t think it necessarily marked you out as a Faithful. It was, for me, simply a point to consider among the others. Now, however, I am not so sure. I find your reaction to what I would regard as a quite reasonable observation on my part quite interesting. And I note the little “dig”, questioning why I am apparently not living up to my (supposed) reputation as a “wise” player – which looks to me to be calculated to evince a reaction which you might use against me.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Now I see that some people are rather optimistic about this, and I'd like to be, too, but...that's a lot of us to just go at each other's throats, isn't it?

Indeed, I did note the haste with which some villagers sought to reassure the village of our prospects. Nogrod and Kath, I think, were the main culprits. It’s possible that one or both may be trying to lull us into a false sense of security. One should never be over-confident where Faithfuls are concerned.

Originally Posted by Mänwe

Sorry I missed this. How last did you see him?

If you mean in role-playing terms, I saw him as a disreputable and shady fellow. If you mean in terms of whether he might actually be a Faithful, he had not posted at the time of our exchange. He has now, but I see nothing overly suspicious in what he has said (other than his attempt to blackmail us by threatening slanderous stories in the press ).

Which brings me to the vexed question of Mänwe, who appears to have gathered some early suspicion. At first, I did find his posts rather strange and difficult to follow. But that may just be his style, so I am not prepared to condemn him for it without more. And, when one considers what he says more carefully, there is actually a fair degree of sense there. As for his bold early accusations, well it is a tried and tested tactic to put some names into the pot and see what reactions it provokes (let’s call it the “mormegil manoeuvre” ), so I am not too concerned about that.

What does concern me, however, is that there appear to have been a number who have championed him as a primary candidate for lynching, and I do wonder whether this might have resulted from a perception by one or more of the Faithful that his style might make him a possible Day 1 lynch. In this regard, I am rather suspicious of Legate, Kitanna and, in particular, Rikae, all of whom appear to have jumped on Rune’s tentative suspicion of Mänwe and Durelin’s early vote for him. Rikae’s vote, being as it was in her first post, was made with alarming alacrity (although I accept that it is retractable).

I am also slightly concerned at the way that Glirdan appears to have been targeted, by Nogrod in particular, without him actually having said very much. While his insubstantial first post annoyed me too, I don’t see it as any particular reason to suspect him, without more. I wonder whether he too may have been targeted as a potential easy Day 1 lynch. And, for the record TGWBS, I did not “jump” on Glirdan, but merely (like you) mentioned him, along with Kath, as one of those who had posted, but without much substance (Holbytlass and Gil-Galad had not posted by that stage). Nogrod, on the other hand, appears to have gone further and perceived sinister motives behind Glirdan’s inconsequential offering.

Originally Posted by Holbytlass

So at this point, all those who have been highly accused/voted for and those doing the major accusing I find innocent at this time.
namelyManwe Nogrod Lommy Durelin Rikae that's not to say that those who accused hadn't gotten a hit but we just don't know till the deed is done.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Holby, I find it weird that you put me on that list... I mean, hardly anyone has accused me this far, and I don't think I've been accusing much either (I've just said that Rikae's a bit weird and one little comment of Nogrod's is odd)...

I found Holby’s list rather strange too, as it did not really reflect fully my understanding of those who have been doing the most accusing and/or been under the most suspicion. Also, she does rather avoid drawing any conclusion with the statement: “but we just don't know till the deed is done”. How is that supposed to help us?

In conclusion, based on what has occurred so far, Nogrod and Rikae look the most suspicious to me. I still have in mind Mithalwen’s early comment about Faithful/Gifted behaviour, but much has happened since then, and I am inclined to view it for now (and without more) as a “first post” statement designed to get discussion underway.

[Gil-Galad]

i would like to jump on to holby's statement of being quiet, i more commonly don't say much worth mentioning till later in the week(if you will), so this early i'm not much help at all...


i feel that Manwe is gaining a bit too much suspicion... and i don't feel his wolfish tendacies, here follows my wolfish hunches, remember they are just hunches


Saucepanman
Hookbill
TGWBS
Rikae

remember, they are hunches but my hunches have wierd ways of working them out

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Originally Posted by Kath

Hookbill appears to be behaving normally to me... His replies were amusing more than offended.

Well, you've got to keep a light heart. I mean, it's not as if it's a matter of life and death... erm... wait... yes it is!

Originally Posted by The Lord Saucepan

I fail to see any hypocrisy here at all. While I am keen for people to speak as much as possible, I am content to give them more than a few hours to do so. You, on the other hand, appeared to be rather cheesed off that most of the village had not spoken in the early hours.

I agree, and don't forget to factor in Time difference. A lot of posts happened while I was asleep!

Originally Posted by Panman

other than his attempt to blackmail us by threatening slanderous stories in the press

Don't think I won't. *writes down 'Saucepan man in 'eats house' scandal'*

At the moment, I cannot see that anyone has given any real reason to be voted for the lynching. It is early days, mind you and I am a terrible judge of character. Manwe made some off handed comments which I will put down to, well, a momentary lack of tact or something. But then again, it could be engineered to look like that... or it may be a triple bluff and... I don't know... I'll get back to you on this...

[the guy who be short]

I am answered regarding Glirdan, SpM. I also note that Roa did not actually voice much suspicion of him, so I retract the question from her also. But the question remains for durelin: Why were you worried by Glirdan not saying much, but not Kath?

Originally Posted by SpM

I am also slightly concerned at the way that Glirdan appears to have been targeted, by Nogrod in particular, without him actually having said very much.

Bear in mind this from Nogrod:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Speak up people, otherwise we can't nail the baddies... and if it becomes to that, I will be the first to vote for those who do not talk without an acceptable explanation.

A sensible view, and one I fully endorce. Though the above question now goes to Nogrod also: Why pick out Glirdan and avoid mentioning Kath, who also said nothing, but with more words?



For the record, voting now stands at:
Durelin -> Manwe
Rikae -> Manwe
Manwe -> Nogrod
Thinlomien -> Rikae

In conclusion, here is a list of what I feel the following villagers are most likly to be, and why, in no particular order:

Innocent
Nogrod - Dislikes those who are too quiet. Makes sense.
SpM - Makes a lot of sense. His slight accusation of Mith (see below)perked my interest - a very good point I hadn't noticed.

Faithful:
Mithalwen -

But if anyone has a watertight method for distinguishing gifted odd vibe from wolvish odd vibe please share!

This information should obviously not be shared.
Manwe - Too harsh and questioning, doesn't explain his list of potential Faithfuls, secretive and too in-character. Accuses Nogrod for his vocabulary.
Rikae - Her first post was a vote. While I agree with the vote, I would like to know why it was cast so quickly. I, personally, would require time to decide on a vote.

I am also ever so slightly suspicious of the quiet for the very fact of being quiet: Glirdan, Gil-Galad, The Might.


Finally, three things aimed at three people:
1) I would like to hear more from Mithalwen about her early request for information on identifying gifteds. I am most inclined to vote for Mith, for that statement and for being so quiet thereafter.
2) I would like Rikae to explain how she came to vote so rapidly.
3) Gil-Galad, can you explain your hunches? I understand the point of a hunch is to be inexplicable, which doesn't help us, but still.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by spm

To be fair, it is always worthwhile to bear in mind that Gifteds can sometimes appear suspicious, by their nature.

I'm well aware of that- but I believe it's the gifted's job to take care of themselves. We should go about the business of wolf hunting instead of fretting over our protectors.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What bothers me is that I tend to agree with Roa here (as we should be the cat and the dog - which one of us is what is an open question)...

*ahem* Meow.

Originally Posted by durelin

that's a lot of us to just go at each other's throats, isn't it?

You should have been here for Deuling Wizards.

Originally Posted by legate

I think I now understand how important is that all people post, because otherwise there is nothing to learn. And who sits and says nothing, is likely a wolf (err, Faithful) - or in worse case, he is a villager (who is not worth anything for the community, if I say it very nastily). But the wolves also need to go around and make a mess by putting us on wrong track, thus, if everyone participates in the discussion, possibly "the one who speaks the loudest bears the banner of the Tree".

Legate, you're a player after my own heart.

Originally Posted by thin

When I first read this thread through, my first impression was that this is the most paranoid first day ever. But probably I was just exaggerating...

Again, Deuling Wizards.



As to my accusers, (Manwe and SPM, and anyone else who I missed).

I never "jumped on" Glirdan. I was using him as an example of what not to do. Neither did I say that anyone quiet was a faithful. I've seen villages destroyed by quietness, and wolves come to easy victory because if it. It is a fact the woves, or cats or faithfuls, or penguins, or whatever else the great Mod God's happen to come up with, have a tendency to kill either the loudest or the quietest players. The loudest because a quiet village is easily overrun by bold wolves, and the quietest because it leaves no discernable trail for us to follow. So, be noisy, indeed, but more than that, put some SUBSTANCE into your posts. It's also true that the wolves divide their numbers during the day - some are noisy, some are quiet. They attack one of their own while ignoring the others. Quietness doesn't = wolf. Quietness doesn't even mean a bad player. But quietness does make it easier for the wolves to run the village, straight to the ground.

As I said, I've seen villages destroyed by their own quietnes. But I've never seen I noisy village go down for speaking, except when that speaking is all but hot air.

I'll be back in a moment with some analysis.

[Roa_Aoife]

Nogrod (Because I have to)

1st post – Thinks we have a good chance of winning, agrees with Mith about
the dangers of lynching a gifted, finds Lalaith’s posts odd, thinks we
should lynch the nice ones, doesn’t want to lynch Thin, Holby and Mith, says
it’s hard to jump on anyone just now.

2nd post – First impression: Mith- innocent, Lalaith- hasty but innocent,
Manwe- unknown, Kath- unkown, Glirdan- suspicious

(Why do people do this? I never understood.)

3rd post - Says he's not trusting anyone, banter with Roa

4th post - Worried that he's agreeing with Roa, thinks Glirdan is too detached, suggests looking at attitude, agrees with SPM about talking

(That would worry me, too, if it wasn't what we always agree on)

5th post - Says SPM is being hypocritical, and blowing things out of proportion, thus making SPM suspicious

(I can see his point about SPM. Infact some other things bothered me about him.)

I actually don't see anything here other than typical Nogrod. I don't believe he "jumped on" Glirdan at all, and at one point he even agreed with Kitanna that it would be beneficial to wait and see what Glirdan had to say. All the cases against him don't seem to hold much merit with that in mind.

So, his great accuser, Manwe:

1st post – immediately points to newbiness, and typical quietness, suspects
that everyone will feel odd, brings up double bluffing, throws vague
suspicion on Hookbill

(Ah, the good old "Newbie" defense.)

2nd post - thinks Nogrod and Roa are suspicious for being too harsh on the quiet, response to SPM's suspicions?, jumps on hookbill line from SPM

(For someone who accuses other of jumping onto easy targets, he seems mighty jumpy himself.)

3rd post - says the four faithfuls are Nogrod, Roa, Saucepan Man, and Kitanna, says Nogrod hasn't answered his questions yet, thinks this makes him guilty, says Roa and Nogrod are picking on Glirdan to draw suspicion from themselves

(A bold statement, but nothing to back it)

4th post - again, grabs onto Hookbill line from SPM

(SPM's clearly joking, but Manwe seems almost serious about this.)

5th post - says since there are four faithful, he names four suspects, doesn't think it's odd, calls back to remember other innocent who were lynched, asks Durelin to reconsider, says he would only vehemently deny being a faithful if he was one, says he may be wrong, but would wait until Nogrod answered his questions, cross posted, said Kitanna's suspicion of Glirdan makes her suspicious

(His defense here is full of holes and shady aspects. Firstly, spotting all four wolves on Day 1 is impossible, secondly, a good portion of the village wasn't even present at this point. It just screams of recklessness. Also, pointing to all the innocents who were lynched for being too suspicious looks designed to cause hesitation in everyone. Also, what question did he ask Nogrod that was vital? I've been keeping a running summary of everything written, and even I missed it.)

6th post - suggest that everything is baseless right now

(If everything is baseless, what are you blathering on about?)

7th post - Understands Kitanna now, says flying accusations are only natural, explains his suspcion as people who pounced apon Glirdan, except for SPM, who was just a baseless accusation to stir things up, but does suspect him on grasping onto his Hookbill idea

(Flying accusations never helped the village. At best, they confuse and focus our attention on a select few, blinding us to whatever else lays out there.)

8th post - Says throwing accusations about is nothing new, says he's just trying to get other's ideas flowing, Votes Nogrod

(How can it not be new for you if this is your first time playing? This screams cop-out to me.)

Conclusion: If he's not a Faithful, he's the Cobbler.

SPM next.

[Nogrod]

First of all I think a wise were-fatihful would avoid controversies espacially on Day1. Why to stand out aloud while sitting in the shadows is more than enough? So I do not think Manwë is a wolf. He plays too daringly to be one.

Secondly. Before you collectively decide that I'm a baddie-maniac after Glirdy trying to get him killed with any cost, just think of it a second. And maybe you should also look what I wrote about Glirdy

Originally Posted by Me

#12Glirdy looks somewhat normal but there is a feeling I get from his post... I don't know what. I know I myself disagree with voting the most "usual suspects" as it tends to turn bad for us, but still I can't help feeling that from those already posted I would say he's the most suspicious one. But that's a little to say and calls for reconsideration after some more posting from you all...

Originally Posted by Me

#19Glirdy seems to be too detached for a villager. Just casually making himself present but in an alienated way. It sounds bad to be sure.

Hope you have more to say later on Glirdy! I know it's early, but there are things to be observed other than "substance" also early in the game, like attitudes behind the words... the problem is that an unenchanted villager might go for it as you do.

So that's it. Not much in a way of "targeting him".

But what I am concerned is all those people who pick up ideas from others and start to carry that lended flag around ("X had good points about Y"). As we know the were-faithfuls need to fabricate their cases and so they are always somewhat superficial. What then better than lending an idea from a misguided innocent?

Okay. I'll reread the stuff before continuing.

[Holbytlass]

I think Mithalwen's vibe comment about sharing is rhetorical but does have merit in cautioning us to be careful. I quite recall the village where almost all specials had to reveal themselves because they were being lynched. Since she has not pursued this I think others are taking this beyond what its meant to be.

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Holbytlass

Since she has not pursued this [statement about finding gifteds] I think others are taking this beyond what its meant to be.

She hasn't pursued it, because she hasn't been here. That statement is the only thing she has said, and so the only thing, thus far, to judge her upon.

It also didn't feel rhetorical to me.

[Mithalwen]

TGWBS ..I have been quiet becasue IU haven't been near a computer again til now... just off to read up on what I have missed.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Holby

I quite recall the village where almost all specials had to reveal themselves because they were being lynched.

I quite recall a village where the same happened, and we had so many known innocents running about it was near impossible for the wolves to hide. (And they didn't for very long.) Anyways:

SPM

1st post - banter with Mith, thinks discussing faithful behavior is dangerous, thinks analysis of words is the best course of action, request people to talk, mild jab at Manwe

2nd post - thinks the lack of roleplaying is nice, responds to Roa: the gifted tend to look very suspicious

3rd post - Thinks it's odd that Nogrod and Roa are "berating" the quiet.

(Here he clearly takes things out of proportion. Niether Nogrod nor myself "berated" anyone. We said the exact same thing that he said- talking good, quiet bad)

4th post - joking about Hookbill

5th post - Will be busy today, doesn't think he was being hypocritical, says Nogrod appeared angry that people had not spoken, says he never thought it made Nogrod look Faithful, but his reaction to the statement did, calls his own point reasonable vs Nogrod's unreasonable reaction, says Kath and Nogrod may be trying to lure us into a false sense of security, more joking about Hookbill, seems to exonerate Manwe for being new, Worried about the people who are voting for him, says Glirdan has been targeted by Nogrod, finds Holby's list a bit strange, thinks Nogrod and Rikae are the most suspicious

(Again, making Nogrod appear more agressive than he actually is. Nogrod never appeared angry over anything. Also, I note his little move there comparing his reasonableness to Nogrod's (implied) unreasonableness. Very clever. He also seems to be eager to form a bond with Manwe.)

Well, SPM and Manwe can't both be wolves. It'd be way to obvious, and SPM is a more subtle man than that. But SPM irks me in a most sinister way. He's too good at directing his wording to point one way, when he's actually meaning something else. I never trust him, to be sure, but I especially don't like his case against Nogrod. It's not like him to blow something up like that. Not when he's innocent, anyways.

[Garin]

Legate said:

or in worse case, he is a villager (who is not worth anything for the community, if I say it very nastily

I'm not comfortable with someone calling ordo villagers worthless. It offends my sense of community. It also could be Legate's way of saying, "I am not an ordinary." Everyone, wants to be viewed as an ordo on day one. Finally, the village still wins if only regular ol' villagers are left standing. On the first day I look for the slightest reasons to vote for a lynch and... I'm just not sure yet.

Also I didn't like Legate saying that I listed Roa as suspicious. I simply said Roa was acting feisty. Hardly a condemnation.

I tend to agree with Lommy and Sauce about Nogrod and Rikae being at the top of the suspicious. I'm not parroting them. I had come to that conclusion over night (Earlier with Nog) and just saw my suspicions mirrored by two veterans of these games. Two crafty veterans mind you.

Regardless, I need to vote as soon as possible. In about five or so minutes.

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, just remind everyone, The Might did say that he would have trouble being around toDay, and possibly on Day 2, so he may not make it today. Hopefully he'll make it by the end of Day 2, though, or he'll be removed.

[Mänwe]

I would just like to interject briefly in response to Roa's comments. I am not taking the banter about Hook seriously, I had always meant it as a joke. Though my accusation of him still stands. And I still want to see Nogrod lynched.

'I'll be back'

[Garin]

Nogrod, your level of participation and the riskiness in posting so much has saved you from my vote thus far TODAY.

Rikae made one of those infamous SAFE votes. Didn't start the voting, didn't cast the deciding vote, it was too early to have any real valid suspicions just hunches, it looked like a bandwagon was starting but not quite... ( A good place to hide your vote)

Of course, I could be accused of doing the same.

The only thing keeping me from voting for Mith is that Mith made the first post, I think. Such bravado for a Faithful.

I have got to vote now....
If I voted for Rikae it would be viewed as a safe vote. Just maybe R is acting more like an uninspired ordinary disenchanted by a boring role.

Nogrod would be a more dangerous vote and could get me in trouble. Plus if Nog is not a bad guy we would lose a valuable member of the village. No offense Rikae. However Nog would be one dangerous faithful.

Okay, a few more minutes....

++Nogrod

edit: corrected misspelling

[the guy who be short]

Garin, why exactly did you vote for Nogrod? I just searched through all your posts and found no reasoning behind the vote than "If Nogrod were a faithful, he would be dangerous."

[Mithalwen]

Roa likes lots of talk so she can examine it. There is nothing odd about that per se.

I am going to have a look at the various people who have taken the somewhat flippant sentence of my "stating the obvious" first post so seriously while (wilfully?) ignoring the serious one - since I know I was well intentioned I have to consider that they may not be:

"Given we don't want to force gifteds to out themselves to save their necks or to out those we think may be gifted in order to defend them, we should remember that that gifteds as well as wolves are liable to give out an "odd" vibe and that while in most villages only the wolves know about each other here the hunter and ranger know about each other. But if anyone has a watertight method for distinguishing gifted odd vibe from wolvish odd vibe please share!"

With nothing to comment on I just wanted to remind the village of the possible dynamics. I can't be certain whether someone seems odd becasue they are a wolf trying to fly under the radar or, say, a ranger who is trying to second guess the wolves as well as catch them but if someone seems "odd" then I do think it is worth reviewing them with all possibilities in mind before you start a bandwaggon. I am not saying don't go after those who you find suspicious.

I hope that is clear...

And if rhetorical means what I think it means - ie not expecting an answer - yes it was.......

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I would like to second TGWBS. . . Garin's latest post was one big contradiction, atleast the way I read it.

Originally Posted by Garin

Nogrod, your level of participation and the riskiness in posting so much has saved you from my vote thus far TODAY

even though there is a "thus far" in there, I still get the imprssion that Garin is going to stay away from Nogrod, but then:

Originally Posted by Garin

Nogrod would be a more dangerous vote and could get me in trouble. Plus if Nog is not a bad guy we would lose a valuable member of the village. No offense Rikae. However Nog would be one dangerous faithful.

Okay, a few more minutes....

++Nogrod

It does not make sence. . .from what I read, Garin does not vote Rikae because it would be a safe vote.

So he votes Nogrod simply because he could be a dangouress opponent and but he also find that this could be dangouress for him.

The only thing I can conclude is that Garin is afraid to vote any of them and then votes for the one he fear the most.

I might vote Garin because of this post. . .it is weird on so many levels.

[Garin]

To The Guy Who Be Shot: (I still love that old typo)

This is one quote from an earlier post of mine:

I already alluded to the fact that Nogrod was more hesitant to lynch some more than others did not sit well with me. It just seemed like an odd first day stance to take.

Plus I agreed with some of Sauce's and Thin's speculation. Which could turn out to be a dangerous stance in itself.

The vote was not an easy one and doesn't sit too well right now. That's why I still don't appreciate Rikae's quick vote.

PLUS, the Nog vote puts me in the Manwe camp. I'm not comfortable there. Manwe's desperation and revenge complex makes me uneasy.

I really don't have much time right now. Maybe I'll retract and re-vote before I head to work. Maybe not.

Also, everyone seems to trust Legate right now. Call me a worthless villager but...

[Roa_Aoife]

I think Garin just reasoned his vote for Nogrod as being the least suspicious vote for him to make. He doesn't vote for Rikae because it could look "safe" and thus suspicious, so instead he votes Nogrod, because it's "riskier" and thus makes Garin look innocent.

This is odd, because Nogrod is actually the safer vote because of all the (baseless, in my opinion) suspicion against him right now.

EDIT: crossed with Garin.... I'm not sure I'm buying that.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

maybe you are right Roa, but I am far from convinced. . .

It could be that I just don't like the whole thing about the risk level dictating who you vote for.

I for one will not decide who to vote for based on that.

[Garin]

I just like to live dangerously I guess. This is pretty much standard for me. Vote for me if you like although I assure you it would be futile. Unless you are a faithful.

When I started my post, I had decided NOT to vote for Nogrod. Then I ended up going against my instinct at the end.

I am confused and really distracted by the clock right now because I really need to go right now and won't monitor the game the rest of the day.

--Nogrod
++Rikae

Because you shouldn't take votes lightly.

EDIT: LAST POST TODAY. GOOD LUCK

[Roa_Aoife]

Rune, I'm not sure we understand each other. I'm not trying to exonerate Garin by any means. I was just writing what I think his post meant, as there seems to be confusion.

Garin seems... well, alarming right now. I hesitate becaue I remember from before Garin left us, and he does have a 100% lynch rate, as well as a 100% ordinary villager rate.....

Still, if your style of play gets you lynched, it's time to get a new style of play. I was all set to vote for SPM, but now I'm not so sure.