Outracing the Flames Discussion Thread

[Nogrod]

I have a couple of suggestions concerning how familiar old Sythric is with the riders' and vice versa.

Sythric won't propably know either Fion or Eostre Merir. We could think that he might have seen them in some village festivities' or something, and possibly could recognize a face to look like "seen you somewhere". The other way around: if it is not very common to make a career as a soldier among the Bregowarians, then all those who have been soldiers, would be generally known. So Fion and Eostre propably know, who Sythric is, and recognize his face (and know, that even as experienced as he is, he is no great hero, just an ex-soldier).

Meghan should be familiar to Sythric via Raedwald. I propose, that they would have also met. Even though Sythric and Raedwald are not the closest friends, they are ex-brothers-in-arms and in that way, at least buddies. So during the last ten years they must have visited each other at least a few times - and of course made company in common village parties. Raedwald propably has told Meghan some stories about their time at armed service. (Undómë: I will try to come up with one or two funny or terrible stories R. might have told M., so that you cuold use them in the game as Meghan's knowledge, if you wish).

As Osmod's family and Sythric's family share two common qualities (being more wealthier than most others & having soldiers in many generations backwards), it is most propable, that the families know each other, at least at the level of bussiness etc. As Syhtric's brother runs Skara, and Osmod's father runs their place, I would suggest, that those two would know each other well. From that it would easily follow, that also Sythric should know Osmod's father, and from that, that he would know - and propably have also met - Osmod himself. I have some ideas concerning the meetings of Sythric and Osmod years ago, but I quess we can PM about them, if you think this overall idea seems reasonable enough.

[Farael]

Eowyn Skywalker & Maeggaladiel, I'm waiting for you to post so that we can at least introduce ourselves and get going. I haven't seen you around for a bit... yet I'd appreciate it if you let me know when you will be posting, just so that I can try to get a post soon after you and get everything rolling.

Nogrod, your idea sounds alright, and I'm ok with Osmod knowing you form before, but we shouldn't know each other very well... Osmod is more of the reserved type and Sythric was more a friend of his father rather than his.

[Tevildo]

Nogrod,

Check your pms.

P.S. My save is filled and another short post added.

[Arry]

Good to have you on board - Tevildo, Maeggaladiel, Valier!

[Valier]

May I ask if anyone knows who is left to post before we can start?

[Arry]

I'll most likely get a post up tomorrow that will get us Wulfhamers out of the village.

I will confess, without shame, that all of Sunday will be wrapped around the Superbowl, pre and post, and all that stuff. Along with, of course, foods galore and foaming drink in abundance . . .

So, most likely, you will see no post from me that day . . .

But feel free to travel along as you wish and get to know one another better. I'll be back on Monday to pick up on what's going on.

-- Arry

[Farael]

And yet another post up! I think we are missing one rider before we can start our journey... although, is your secondary character (Raewald?) going to meet us before or after we leave, Undome?

As well, I said that everyone feared for their loved ones. If any of you does NOT want his character to feel that way, let me know and I'll edit it out, but I think its logical and it adds to the 'mood' of the story we are trying to tell.

Looking forward to get our group on the road... the worst part is that time of insecurity right before the start!!

Edit and PS: Don't expect me to be around too much during Sunday either GO STEELERS GO!!!.

[Valier]

Telvido Please empty your pm's !!!!I was trying to send you one but your all full up! anyways I responded to Dorran approaching Vaenosa....I'm So SORRY!! she's mean!!!! She doesn't like men at all....She will come around eventually....(Maybe)

[Tevildo]

So sorry, Valier. I had a whole lot of messages come in at once! Box is cleared.

Tevildo

[Undómë]

Rædwald is leaving shortly after the main group is already on their way.

[Arry]

Steelers! hack, cough . . .

Seahawks

[piosenniel]

From a previous post by Arry:

Until our two groups join together - let's use the names of the 2 villages in bold as headers to our posts. I think it will be easier to keep track of our separate groups that way.

So - most likely if you see an 'edited by piosenniel' on your post - it will be to add your village's header.

~*~ Pio

[Nogrod]

Hello, fellow travellers'!

It's nice to see, that things are cooking after all! Good! And off we go!

But still I would like to be a kind of hornet (hopefully in a kind of Socrates' like of manner than as just a wit-picker) as regards to our starting positions.

If discrepancies with Tolkien’s Middle Earth are neglicible in general in BD, I’m not going to be the one to demand correction to the normal gaming-practises’. The game would work easier the way, we are going right now. But if there is a wish to set the game in somewhat original locations, and not to sway the logic of ME, I would voice a concern about the placement of the villages’.

Outlanders’ must live outside some natural border of Rohan to be called “outlanders”. The only natural borders around Wold seem to be rivers. But should these outlanders’ really be dwelling at the eastside of Anduin? This choice will surely meet the first-sight requirements of gaming as planned eg. making it easier from the standpoint of the plot. But there are several problems here.

Firstly, the idea of Rohan-people living at the eastbank of Anduin sounds pretty far fetched. It would be too dangerous and hard – and even futile: there is room enough in Wold, or around Entwood, to accomodate ten times the population it has. So why to go over the Great River, to perilous areas, when there is room enough in these safer locations too? (Well, we could come up with something, better pastures? Maybe these villages’ are so old, that there has been no threat until now, and the fields have been good at times long by etc.?)

Secondly, we will have some problems concerning the crossing of the Great River. As the greatest river in the familiar Middle Earth, it should be both wide, and having a very strong current. So it would be quite impropable, that there were nice fords’ at regular basis. I don’t remember Tolkien telling anything about the fellowship having to carry their boats for a while, because of a ford at Anduin.

So how should the outlander people go regularily over the river? By boats? Well enough for people, but how about horses? By some kind of rafts? (that’s what I would go for, if we leave it here) But how would we ensure, there is a raft at both sides of the river, and how steerable is a raft in the strong current of the Great River? We could have ropes, surely, but I just find it awkward to figure out, how the fellowship in LotR had to duck, while passing the Wold-rohanians’ ropes...

So thirdly, we would have a specific problem of our game. Could four outlanders’ get themselves over the river with their horses (rafts would need quite a pulling power)? How about one old-timer doing the same alone (Raedwald)? Or another old-timer doing it in the dark of the night (Sythric)?

I don’t know about the plans Arry has, but if Arry’s plans are not tied to certain geographical locations, we could think once more about the first settings of the game. If Arry’s plans require places’ he has outlined to us with current settings, it will surely be ok. with me. You all can just forget these thoughts I’ve brought out.

But another option could be seen. The river Limleith (?) (Limlight) is coming from Entwood to the river Anduin. People might live north of Limlight and be rohanians (f.ex. just north of 'L' at the map). True outlanders’, but still in little more secure foundations than those who would be living east of Anduin. They could come over the river - a minor river should have a ford somewhere - and ride alongside Entwood’s edge to the Entwash, where the party of Wulfhamers’ would come too (If Wulfham would be somewhere near the 'U' of the Undeeps on the map, at the west side of Anduin of course)? And there the parties could meet – if Arry hasn’t planned it otherwise... There would then be some time, before this meeting (and people would have time to get on together)

So Arry, if your ideas concerning the happenings’ of both parties are not tied to certain locations, I hope, you would think this one more time.

If some of my premises’ are bad or untrue, I’ll apologize the time you spent with this letter...

PS. Arry: check the PM before answering.

[Arry]

Will reply later - when I'm back home.

What PM, by the way?

-- Arry

[Arry]

Everyone please read this.

This is how I see the setting for the game:

Villages:

I’d really like the two villages to remain where we’ve put them. They are both small, fairly isolated places. They are not wealthy villages, but have managed to scrape a living from the Wold and the Brown Lands. That is one of the reasons their village leaders wish to bring them in closer to the more defensible, larger towns – eg., moving toward Edoras.

The Bregoware group has chosen the name of the village in this way:

Since our village is just outside the eastern boundary of Rohan, that would put us on the other side of the Anduin. How about we say our village is near a ford in the river. Old English for "ford" is "ware".

And just to tie us into Rohan proper - we could have some old story of how one of the early kings of Rohan used the crossing to for . . . well, something important . . . "Brego" is the Old English word for "ruler or lord".

And Brego was the second King of Rohan . . . so stretching it a bit, our village could be called:

Bregoware

And yes, Tolkien never actually mentioned ‘King’s Ford’ but he did say, in Unfinished Tales, “The History of Galadriel and Celeborn”, Appendix C that:

. . . [T]he great loops of the Anduin (where it came down swiftly past Lorien and entered the low flat lands before its descent again into the chasm of the Emyn Muil) had many shallows and wide shoals . . . especially in the two westward bends, known as the North and South Undeeps.

I’ll grant that the river still moves at a fair pace and could be treacherous if trying to cross on horse or foot.

Therefore, I propose that the Bregowarians have a ferry at their ford, with a ferryman and his family who run it. Since the villages are few and far between in this part of Rohan, I can see the outlanders ferrying across their goats and sheep (the smaller flocks) to pasture often along the empty western side of the river – especially if those with cattle and horses used most of the good pasture land on the Outland side of the river.

----------

The attacking Orcs and Men of the East:

This is not a big invading army that is marching westward into Rohan.

From the timeline for the game:

This game takes place in the Third Age, very late autumn, of the year just prior to the start of the War of the Ring. (The War of the Ring begins in June of 3018 TA)

What I see for the game are small parties of invaders making more and more frequent incursions into Rohan. They can be gathering information, simply marauding the outlying and less defendable villages, carrying information, etc, between Isengard and Mordor.

----------

About the two groups meeting up:

Here’s how we can handle this problem.

Since the two groups are completely discrete entities at the beginning of the game, we do not need to assume that both groups leave on the same day.

The Wulfhamers will have left their village say{EDIT DONE} 3 days prior to the Bregoware group. That should leave enough time for the Wulfhamers to come within range of the Bregowarians as they travel south.

----------

Can we all work with these ideas?


-- Arry

[Valier]

Roger, Roger, good Moddie!!

[Arry]

OK - the Wulfham riders are on their way. Brand is riding at the back; the next person to post please take the front position for this day of riding. Or at least until we stop for a quick midday meal.

We don't want to push our horses at an extremely fast pace this early on. But we can move at a good clip. Feel free to ride together at some points of the journey . . . a little talk and getting to know one another would be good.

[Tevildo]

Arry -

Your ideas sound fine to me! Ah, it's good to be off and riding.

[Farael]

Aye aye ModArry.

By the way, would you mind sneaking in the "current date" of the Wulfhamlers departure in your post? I think tonight I'll have us Bregowares on the road if no-one does it before me and I'd like to add the date for our reader to know that the story is not happening for both groups at the same time.

[Arry]

Farael

For the sake of the reader - just put a bolded title above your "we're heading out" post that says:

Three Days After the Wulfhamers Departure (EDIT DONE FROM 2 WEEKS TO 3 DAYS)

Until we meet up - that will be all we need to establish our 2 separate timelines.

-- Arry

Oh - and by the way -- officially I'm the game founder; Pio is the Game's Moderator - she will iron out any problems we can't agree on, or remind us of RPG rules/protocol as needed.

[Nogrod]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Arry

Everyone please read this.
This is how I see the setting for the game:
I’ll grant that the river still moves at a fair pace and could be treacherous if trying to cross on horse or foot.

Therefore, I propose that the Bregowarians have a ferry at their ford, with a ferryman and his family who run it.

This is perfectly fine with me. Maybe it was good that I asked (became clear to us all), but sorry to have been putting my ideas forwards so insistencely. Just learning the trade...

The attacking Orcs and Men of the East:

This is not a big invading army that is marching westward into Rohan.

What I see for the game are small parties of invaders making more and more frequent incursions into Rohan. They can be gathering information, simply marauding the outlying and less defendable villages, carrying information, etc, between Isengard and Mordor.

We might put the words of the Bregoware March-warden (in my post) in general "brackets". He was understandably kind of over-reacting to the situation (and basically, Sythric was right!). This is ok.

Since the two groups are completely discrete entities at the beginning of the game, we do not need to assume that both groups leave on the same day.

The Wulfhamers will have left their village say 2 weeks prior to the Bregoware group. That should leave enough time for the Wulfhamers to come within range of the Bregowarians as they travel south.

Good idea! All of our thoughts have lingered about the people of these two villages' starting on the very same morning - or at least, I have thought it that way (the bells / horns are sounding at the middle of the night in both places etc.). This idea of your's is both logical (outlanders' would hear the alarm sooner) and more flexible (with interest of molding the game).

Even though, I think, two weeks is quite a long time (compared to the overall time, we think, we could manage to the Golden Hall!).

But that should come to clear in its time.

[Undómë]

Bregowarians -

I'll be gone for several hours - to to cinema YAY!!!

When I've returned - I'll get us out of the city and safely across the river . . .

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Undómë

Bregowarians -

I'll be gone for several hours - to to cinema YAY!!!

When I've returned - I'll get us out of the city and safely across the river . . .

Great, that someone takes us out of the village!

But.

Do not take us across the river!? If we are using this timeline Arry is proposing (two weeks!!!) we should be living somewhere north of Lorien or something, Around the Beorning settlements', I suppose (how far could you ride in two weeks? Quite far I think)?

Even if we shorten this time-gap a bit, we should not go over the river just yet, bacause otherwise the Wulfhamers' would have too great a ride to catch us. We could of course ride a circle in southern Woldland for ten days' while waiting for the Wulfhamers' to come, or Arry could arrenge us as real adventure or something...

Arry will of course settle this, but I am just voicing my concern... Sorry.

[Naria]

I do agree that the outlander's should wait to cross the river or just get across and wait for us or something cause it would take us way to long to meet up with you guys. According to the timeline that Arry has put out Wulfham should not be too far from the river and ferry. Think of it as the outlanders are in the future and we are in the past. So it is our group that has the catching up and meet with the outlanders. I think that the whole idea is set up so we can all ride together and have most of the adventures with the entire group. If I am wrong on this can Arry orPio let me know. It would be a BIG help.

Pio. Do you post the times of day like morning, afternoon and evening? And can we put in our posts changes in weather or do you also do that?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Naria

I do agree that the outlander's should wait to cross the river or just get across and wait for us or something cause it would take us way to long to meet up with you guys. According to the timeline that Arry has put out Wulfham should not be too far from the river and ferry. Think of it as the outlanders are in the future and we are in the past. So it is our group that has the catching up and meet with the outlanders. I think that the whole idea is set up so we can all ride together and have most of the adventures with the entire group. If I am wrong on this can Arry orPio let me know. It would be a BIG help.

I totally agree! We should have most of the adventure together! This starting stuff is just the basement over which we should build our story.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I totally agree! We should have most of the adventure together! This starting stuff is just the basement over which we should build our story.

Yet we should let some time for relationships and interactions between the groups within themselves start to settle in. We are all strangers to each other and so I think it'd be better if first we got to know each other (and possibly get a little on each other's nerves) and then the two groups met.

Yet I think two weeks might be a little excessive.

Edit: actually, it depends on how we advance time... if we are going to enact every day that happens, two weeks will be WAY more than necessary. If we are going to jump three or four days at the time, it might be alright.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Farael

Yet we should let some time for relationships and interactions between the groups within themselves start to settle in. We are all strangers to each other and so I think it'd be better if first we got to know each other (and possibly get a little on each other's nerves) and then the two groups met.

Yet I think two weeks might be a little excessive.

Edit: actually, it depends on how we advance time... if we are going to enact every day that happens, two weeks will be WAY more than necessary. If we are going to jump three or four days at the time, it might be alright.

Sure we need time to come to know each other, and to get into each other's nerves' as well. I was just wondering about this two-week timetable. Sounds pretty lavish to me. Even if Arry has something in store for us...

By the way, it would be nice to see us Outlanders' being set on the road too. Would you Undómë do it as you promised, or should someone else make it? Let's not make this crossing of the Great River too great a problem!

If no-one makes a move in 24- hours, I'll take the liberty of setting you / us off...

[Tevildo]

I don't think you have to worry. Normally, RPGs don't enact one day at a time. You can whiz through an entire week in one post, or take several days to play out a few hours of action. I'm sure Arry will help us by giving suggestions on the appropriate way and time to advance the clock.

The two sides of the story don't even have to run in complete tandem as long as we all meet up at the same time and place in the end.

[Undómë]

I've deleted my SAVE.

Please - someone else write what you wish to write and get us where you wish to get us.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Undómë

I've deleted my SAVE.

Please - someone else write what you wish to write and get us where you wish to get us.

Well, I'll do it if you'd like. Although I wouldn't mind you doing it! =) you are a good writer.

[Arry]

Depressing! 4th quarter and the Steelers just passed for a Touch Down!

But I digress . . .

I guess I misunderstood previous posts about each group getting to know each others' characters. It seems now that the preference is for the two groups to come together as soon as possible.

So - I'm pushing back the first of the planned surprises for the individual groups.

Bregoware will be across the river and 60 miles south of Wulfham (a 2 full days ride - and here we will agree that horses can average 25 to 30 miles per day).

Wulfham will have left 3 days prior to Bregoware. That will make them 30 miles ahead of Bregoware on the third day.

We will spend only a few days riding as separate groups.

I will have something happen to the Wulfham group which will slow them down at some very soon time - players will be alerted on the discussion thread.

At that point the Bregoware party can discover us - by advance riders or simply running into our camp at some point. We do not need to work this out at this point.

Once the groups are together then the planned surprises will begin.

I will label my leaving the village post appropriately (see post #23 of the game thread).

[Farael]

Sorry, no... I won't be able to get us out tonight. I should be free tomorrow around 3 PM Central time (GMT-6 I believe) but if anyone else wants to take us out, I won't object.

[Nogrod]

Undómë
I've deleted my SAVE.

Please - someone else write what you wish to write and get us where you wish to get us.

What a pity! You write well. Just hope, I wasn't the reason for you deleting your save. Just feeling a bit low about all that my whining has lead to...

Arry
I guess I misunderstood previous posts about each group getting to know each others' characters. It seems now that the preference is for the two groups to come together as soon as possible.

I hope I wasn't the reason for this either. I was worried about the logic of the story: One would ride quite far in two weeks. I'm totally in for giving us enough time to get to know each other. That just should happen in a couple of days' game time, merely than two weeks'.

But Arry: you are making good "saves'"! I like the look of this.

Hope Undómë changes her mind about writing the party off the village. Still, I've promised to write it, if no-one else does, and I'll keep my word if needs be. It would just be better, if the writer would be one of you riders' concerned in the scene.

[Maeggaladiel]

Sorry I've been so behind in my posting, everyone. Three of my professors decided on a whim that it would be fun to have midterm exams a week early, at the same time as my big Electronic Media project was due.

[Farael]

Ok, we are off.... sorry if it's not my most inspired post but we need to get on the way. Let me know if I left any spelling/grammar mistakes there, I'm pretty sleepy today.

I should have NOT watched the Superbowl yesterday, which would have meant I would have been able to sleep a little more tonight... but heh, my Steelers won =D Two years ago when I moved to Canada they all laughed at me... NOW I LAUGH AT THEM!! HAHAHA

[Undómë]

So --- before I post:

How far away is the ferryman?

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Undómë

So --- before I post:

How far away is the ferryman?

I'd say a long day's march? I'm not sure it'd make sense to have it any further than that, but I don't want to hurry things either.

[Nogrod]

Undómë So --- before I post:
How far away is the ferryman?

Originally Posted by Farael

I'd say a long day's march? I'm not sure it'd make sense to have it any further than that, but I don't want to hurry things either.

I agree with Farael. For the Outlanders to have some time together, there should be at least a day's march. I don't know, whether Arry has any plans for us concerning where we will be overnight - at which side of the river?

So I think our first day should be spent riding and starting to build relations. Let's care about the ferry when the evening falls.

My vote goes for the ferry at noon, the next day.

[Undómë]

Then, my older character, Rædwald will be meeting up with the group before they cross the river, is that correct?

My plan was to have him come upon them at their evening camp.

Also, since we are a day away from the river - that will make us 2 days behind Wulfham once we've crossed. Is that where you meant to have us?

[Undómë]

Eowyn Skywalker

I've had my character make an overture toward yours. will await your reply.