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#41 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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...here it is.
From the "I knew those rumors were so ridiculous they had to be true" front - I see a dwarf-bearing chariot drawn by rams...which might not have been quite so bad if I wasn't instantly reminded of the silly barrel-riding sequence and at 1:22 I see what can only be an army of dwarves charging in on what can only be a horde of similar rams. *sigh* From the "Oh my gosh, how lazy can you get" front - I see orcs that look like they could have come straight from Isengard from The Two Towers (I guess they wanted to reuse the armor to hold down costs) and a song from the previous trilogy. To say they appear to be phoning it in is an insult to the comparatively high standards of actual phoning it in. And then we have the end of the trailer. I'm sure New Zealand is a lovely country...but seriously, does the entire economy of the country revolve around these movies now?
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#42 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Beaten me to the punch, Kuru, I was about to post this.
Gut-punch more like. Dwarves riding rams. For goodness' sake. "It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury Signifying nothing."
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#43 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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Can't wait to get into the heated discussion of which is faster: Radagast's bunny sled or this Dwarven chariot.
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There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
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#44 |
Woman of Secret Shadow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
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I'm unimpressed. The amount of recycling old imagery in these films hurts as it is, and now we're even getting Galadriel's feet.
Peter Jackson shows he hasn't improved as a director one bit in these 15 years. Most of the youtube comments seemed doubtful too. Some scenes did look visually better than the first two films in general, though. And mind you I'm not talking about the CGI and the unrealistic fighting choreographies here.
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He bit me, and I was not gentle. |
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#45 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
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"I will have war!"
Give me a break. ![]() It all seems very much darker than the book. They're trying to build it up to a climax rivaling the big showdown at the Morannon in ROTK. "Recycled" is the best word I can think to describe it. And why does PJ have only two modes with these films: goofy slapstick and overblown dramatics?
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#46 | |
Woman of Secret Shadow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
If they wanted a bigger climax they should have done the War of Wrath, not the prequel to the climax of the Third Age.
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He bit me, and I was not gentle. |
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#47 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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Another point that adds to the silliness of the rams; the dwarves were shown in the first movie riding large ponies. What is the need to have them riding rams?
Obviously, they do have to ride. They can't just march into battle like they did in the book. That would be silly. We have to recreate the charge of Rohirrim from ROTK after all.
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#48 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,506
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"Peter Jackson has got your goat!"
I snicker with a sheepish grin: First coneys and sleds to rabbit on, And just as the plot wore thin, This new haresy to aggravate ewe -- A film-induced coma From the barnyard aroma Wafting above the din. But Pete shall ram his petty view -- This parody, this jest, this mock -- Down the collective throats of those Like lambs who wait patiently in the dock, And blindly submit While they sit through the sh*t This fleecing of the flock.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#49 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Quote:
In my opinion the modern, mainstream Western 'culture industry' may currently be at one of its lowest points in terms of anti-intellectualism and fatuousness (yes I know 'fatuous' is one of my favourite words), turning everything into this sort of homogenous cultural gruel of adaptations, reboots and revivals of older texts and properties which are chewed up and regurgitated as identical, generic slop. As a wise man once said, "I guess if you feed humanity flavourless wallpaper paste for decades then you shouldn't be surprised if that's all they want to eat now." But it's a chicken-and-egg problem really, the industry feeding the consumers and vice-versa. That being said, I think a lot of blame lies with the current intensity of the corporatocratic grip on our politics and economics: lazy, stock storytelling feeds the bottom line a lot more readily than, I don't know, dignity or meaning.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#50 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
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Quote:
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#51 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The wide blue yonder beyond this dimension
Posts: 19
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So...the mind of Peter Jackson:
"Pfft! Horses are overrated! A white horse for Radagast like in the books? Nope! Let's have him on a sled drawn by bunnies...Rhosgobel Rabbits, shall we say, eh, loyal book fans?" (wink wink) "And let's have Thranduil riding an elk, cause he's from the woods and who has ever heard of horses in a wood, am I right? And let's now give the dwarves a chariot drawn by rams...oh, Jackson, you've done it again, you masterful storyteller, you!" (Reclines on a chair and looks at the comment section on his Facebook page). But in all seriousness, the computer effects looked...well, terrible and... The. Attempts. At. Being. DRAMATIC! ...are still cringey. I have yet to come up with the amount of jokes I had with The Desolation of Smaug trailer. I have a feeling this might be the worst film of them all (though I've only watched An Unexpected Journey and felt like watching DOS for the sake of it, but the fan comments on Peter Jackson's Facebook seriously put me off with the whole "But books and films are different mediums" and the usual nonsense). Sorry to suddenly barge in on the conversation. This is my first time posting on the site but I just watched this teaser and felt I really needed to say something about it.
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"It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... *lightning strikes* whoa! Like lightning!"-Merlin, Excalibur(1981) |
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#52 | |
Woman of Secret Shadow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
DoS is ten times worse than AUJ. You've missed nothing not seeing it. I shouldn't check this thread at work though, remembering all these horrors makes me cringe and sooner or later coworkers will start asking about the funny face.
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He bit me, and I was not gentle. |
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#53 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Quote:
A lot of commentators online seem to be arguing that three films were necessary for the plot to make sense and so on. I think that would be more true if the screenplays trusted the source material more. One thing I will say for these films is that although both of the ones which have come out so far are about 45 minutes to an hour too long, I don't necessarily object to the different 'episodes' of the original text being given room to breathe. If I'm to be perfectly honest I'm actually not averse to the current 'trilogy' structure as such, but for it to work it would have to hew more closely to the source material and focus more on characterisation and atmosphere than additional action. If there is one thing these films seem to get praised for with zero substantiation it's the idea of characterisation, since in my view it's either totally generic characterisation (Bilbo and Thorin) or there is no characterisation where there could be (most of the other Dwarves). We've still got the books, though, haven't we? Books with big pictures of Martin Freeman on the cover.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#54 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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Galling, isn't it.
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#55 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
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Martin Freeman is in The Hobbit? What character does he play? I always thought he'd make an excellent Bilbo Baggins.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#56 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
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What's galling is that many books now have movie imagery plastered all over them.
In my opinion he hasn't made a particularly great Bilbo Baggins.
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#57 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The wide blue yonder beyond this dimension
Posts: 19
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Yeah, to be honest, Freeman's performance as Bilbo is a bit too deadpan. It's kind of difficult to imagine that this hobbit would one day be Ian Holm's Bilbo.
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"It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... *lightning strikes* whoa! Like lightning!"-Merlin, Excalibur(1981) |
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#58 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 80
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I can't even judge Freeman's performances in the context of the horrible screenplays. The worst I can say for sure is that he's drowned out, where perhaps a greater actor could manage to steal or subvert the show, while the rest goes to hell in a handbasket.
Quote:
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From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold. |
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#59 | |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,743
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Well I've been putting it off, but seeing the discussion here I finally watched it.
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Again, I was cautiously optimistic when Freeman was cast, but now it's quite clear to me that he is wrong for the role. He has one schtick -- bumfuzzled everyman. God bless him he's working it as hard as he can and presumably socking away a nice retirement nest egg. But Bilbo ain't "everyman". |
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#60 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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I realize it was not entirely his fault, but everything about his performance was just bad. The Gollum sequence in UJ was pretty good(ish), but the Smaug sequence was just bad.
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#61 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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I wouldn't says he's actually bad, it's more that he sort of overplays underplaying it (if that makes any sense).
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#62 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Quote:
expected Party beginning was acceptable). PJ has shown a long decline from the pretty good FoTR, thru worsening TTT and RoTK. But afteer the first Hobbit absurdities (including making Goblin Town a laughably improbable scene---in the book the size of goblins, escape from them, etc, are believable in Tolkien's subcreation. PJ just has become more and more cartoonish. Exactly what Tolkien feared of "Hollywoodism".
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The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' |
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#63 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Knocking on a pillar in a diffident attempt to determine if Smaug is still home seems pretty bad to me.
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#64 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 92
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couldnt they at least find some nice stunt feet for Galadriel? those great flapping feet were a real turn off, no wonder Gandalf fainted.
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#65 | |
Woman of Secret Shadow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
In any case, I don't think they made that scene with the intention of turning you on.
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#66 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 92
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#67 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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With this crew, how can you be sure?
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#68 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#69 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 92
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Not to mention whats down Kilis pants
thanks for lowering the tone Jackson. |
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#70 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The wide blue yonder beyond this dimension
Posts: 19
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That's one of the things I read about The Desolation of Smaug that really put me off seeing it...the "what's in my trousers" thing. One of the things I liked about the book was there was a gentle humour, which I saw in An Unexpected Journey had given way to burp and snot jokes. And then we have some penis jokes.
All very subtle...like a herd of charging oliphaunts.
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"It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... *lightning strikes* whoa! Like lightning!"-Merlin, Excalibur(1981) |
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#71 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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From Aristophanes to Peter Jackson, penis jokes never get old.
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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#72 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The wide blue yonder beyond this dimension
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That is true. My personal favourite example would be "The Penis Song" from "Monty Python's Meaning of Life". But if there's a time when they're really out of place and inappropriate for the material being dealt with, it's a Tolkien adaptation (even if it's being directed by Peter Jackson). Well, that and children's programmes.
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"It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... *lightning strikes* whoa! Like lightning!"-Merlin, Excalibur(1981) |
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#73 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 92
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I also disliked the 'fleeting nudity' scene in Rivendell. the Dwarves looked like they were cgi generated (could be wrong) but it made me cringe. I HATED all those scenes with the Dwarves in Rivendell, they were crude, rude and totally unfunny. I hated the pained look on Elronds face, Rivendell shouldnt be besmirched by cheap humour. it cheapens the beauty of Rivendell in LOTR in a weird way. imho.
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#74 | |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The wide blue yonder beyond this dimension
Posts: 19
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Quote:
Not the most original criticism I put here, because from the reviews I have read, everyone's pretty much said it, including Viggo Mortensen. Just letting out the bitter disappointment I felt when I first watched this. ![]()
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"It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... *lightning strikes* whoa! Like lightning!"-Merlin, Excalibur(1981) |
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#75 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 92
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Yeah me too. but I cant be bothered with anger any more, gone past that into weary indifference.
![]() I would like to see those 'Hunt for Gollum' people have a go at The Hobbit. Low tech seems so refreshing after all this plastic Las Vagas style ME. Give me good old fashioned tramping round real forests in coloured hoods anyday. Even Martin Freeman with a good script and a chance to show what a great actor he is. He is forced to gurn his way through the movies because he doesnt have anything to say and is mostly in the background looking bewildered. ![]() |
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#76 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The wide blue yonder beyond this dimension
Posts: 19
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So a better title for this trilogy wouldn't be The Hobbit because the hobbit is more or less in the background, but instead would be:
The Grim and Serious Dwarf trying to claim back his homeland while trying to do an Impression of Viggo Mortensen at some times, but other times he's doing an impression of Sean Bean...: An Unexpected Journey But then considering the other things going on: The Series of Various Events which some way tie in with the events of The Lord of the Rings: An Unexpected Journey Or... The Hobbit...is somewhere in this film but look at all these cool action scenes: An Unexpected Journey
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"It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... *lightning strikes* whoa! Like lightning!"-Merlin, Excalibur(1981) |
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#77 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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On a serious note, this satire does show much of what is wrong with contemporary movie making. We now return to the regularly scheduled thread.
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#78 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 92
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#79 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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Just think of what would happen if J.J. Abrams is tapped to do the remake of LOTR and add another notch in his belt of destroying franchises...
Although admittedly, there isn't much left of the pop culture LOTR that wasn't destroyed already.
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#80 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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I'm picking up that bats are important.
We get to have a big showdown in Dol Guldur... Lots of cheezy one-liners... Continued march of the Arkenring through Thorin's personality... Fili (possibly dying) gives his silly rock to elf lady (or maybe it is Kili, even I can't keep them straight)... Bilbo attempts to recreate Aragorn's (over-rated in my opinion) inspirational speech from RotK... Orcs somehow look worse and more cgi than ever (one of them even seemed to bend in un-natural and physically impossible ways like a stretchyorc). Did anybody see anything that surprised them?
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... Last edited by Kuruharan; 11-08-2014 at 10:47 AM. |
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