Re:Any opinions of Harry Potter?

[Samwise of the shire]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Re:you forgot something

Pippin IS a tween -in hobbit years- remember 33 is coming of age to hobbits.And mcwFrodo sure Frodo snapped at Sam and accused him of theft,but he did ask for forgiveness.As for Ron he held a grudge against Hermione and her cat-thats not exactly forgiving- and yes I think that HP should apologize to Colin.Because Colin cant help his admeration for Harry and Harry should'nt act like he does towrds Colin just cause he bugs him,Sam was'nt bugging Frodo and yes Frodo lost his head for a minute but he did apologize.Sam WAS NOT Frodo's BF when they left The Shire,he became his BF during the time they were in Mordor.And Frodo had to lie about his name and about dissapearing because HE HAD ENEMIES AT BREE -dont forget Bill ferney- he had to protect his name and he wanted to leave the shire quietly,Frodo did a darn bad job too.Merry knew immidiatley,and HP was either a good lier on the fact of the maraduers map-his life was'nt indanger when he told that whooper-or else Snape was an idiot -which I dont think he was-.As for Sam chucking apples at Ferney,DONT compare Sam with HP,words hurt alot more than apples,and Sam was'nt chucking apples at Ferney,he chucked ONE apple at him and he deserved it.But I wanna ask you guys a small question?What do you think of people that dont like HP because he's a wizard?I think not liking HP because he's a wizard is toatally ludicrous,tell me what you think.-this is to agrue or agree on another HP topic that LOTR can added into gandalf is a wizard after all-.
Samwise of the shire
PS hannah the LOTR charecters are human too,they just act better

</p>

[Hannah 3]

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Re: Re:you forgot something

I meant 'human' literally, they are dwarves, elves, hobbits, ents and maia and so on - even the men are very different.
Are you saying that being a good liar makes him bad? I say it is pathetic that Frodo's life was in danger and he couldn't even save it because it meant lying.
And where specifically are you talking about when you say Harry lied about the map? Oh, I know he does, but where does he lie and convince Snape? In book 3 when the map insulted Snape? But a teacher was covering up for him, remember. Snape was not convinced, but couldn't argue further.

Just where does Harry act in a wrong way to Colin? Oh, he's always irritated by him, of course, but I don't recollect him doing anything really bad.

Yes, he became his best friend in Mordor, and unless there's something really wrong with me it was in MORDOR that he apologised to Sam!

Also, my life is not in danger when I tell a teacher that I 'forgot' my homework, but to a child such things are important. I mean, everyone has told an occasional lie. What OF it?

Finally, I need references. This is going to sound like I didn't read the books preperly, but I just never read it thinking 'Oh, that was mean of Harry.' Doesn't Malfoy deserve it when Harry curses him?
Who are you to say 'don't compare'? That's what the whole topic is about.

I agree that it is silly that people dislike wizards...


~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

[Zoe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
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Re: Re:you forgot something

Actually, HP and LotR aren't just in different genres, they're aimed at entirely different audiences. The Lord of the Rings, with it's huge scope and majesty, is an ADULT'S book. HP is a KID'S book. Of course the characters are going to behave differently.

Sam, can you give me an example of a kid's book where all the good guys have perfect morals? Not the LotR, a kid's book. It seems rather unfair on J K Rowling to have her work criticised just because it's not at the level of the LotR. Of course it isn't. Different audiences, different levels.

</p>

[the Lorien wanderer]

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Re: Re:you forgot something

Hannah- when I said HP and LoTR are the same genre, I was referring to the fact that they're both fantasy. Agreed, LoTR is far subtler as compared to the rather abracadabra HP.
I agree with Z about the fact that Tolkien and Rowling's work is aimed at separate audiences. That's not to say of course, that a person can't enjoy both. I just think that one can't expect HP and LoTR readers to agree on everything, specially morals.


What if - what if this is as good as it gets?</p>

[burrahobbit]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit
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Re: Re:you forgot something

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> As for Ron he held a grudge against Hermione<hr></blockquote>
Sam had a grudge against Gollum, and Gollum never even did anything to them. The doing only came after Sam spited him more than once.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[Hannah 3]

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Re: Re:you forgot something

Thank you, everyone! (How nice for me to have experienced debaters on my side... <img src=tongue.gif ALT=""> )

Ron, also, had REASON for a grudge. How would Sam behave if Frodo hurt Bill? (As Frodo has no pet, I'll have to use that...)

And yes, they are both fantasy, so you're right, Lorien Wanderer. <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

[Samwise of the shire]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Re:Hannah hello gollum tried to kill sam and frodo

Gollum definatly tried to do something to Frodo and Sam he tried to kill him by trapping them with Shelob.And I havent read HP for a couple of months -after my mom told me not to re read them cause of the contents-I'm just waiting for the fifth book to come out-and I dont know that I will read it I might-.And as for perfect morals?THE HOBBIT Duhhhh -oh yeah sure thorin holds a grudge against Bilbo but He asks for forgiveness when he dies-.that was a childs book.And Hermione is a &quot;good guy&quot; so Ron should'nt hold a grudge against her,Gollum on the otherhand is a bad guy -which a lot of people on the forum seem to forget- so I think it makes more sense.
samwise of the shire
Ps.was the tongue on the top of your post supposed to be insulting?If so it has worked efficiantly.and Ron did not as explained above Hermione was a good guy.

</p>

[burrahobbit]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit
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Re: Re:Hannah hello gollum tried to kill sam and frodo

As I said, the &quot;doing&quot; (feeding the hobbits to shelob) only came after Gollum was mistreated by Sam.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[Zoe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
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Re: Re:Hannah hello gollum tried to kill sam and frodo

What, so it's okay to hold a grudge against someone you don't like, such a Gollum? (That's very circular reasoning, in my opnion, and certainly not an example of the Christian morality you believe Harry Potter should display.)

</p>

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
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Re: Re:Hannah hello gollum tried to kill sam and frodo

After reading all that, I'd like to say. No, LotR is not a kid's book.
And, the book was written ages ago when kids were not rebelious and obeyed their parents.
JK is NOT!!! JRRT. They are completely different and therefore write and think differently. So what if she used mythological creatures? TOLKEIN DID NOT CREATE THEM!!!!!!! Her books were NOT influenced by him! How could she copy his ideas if she hadn't read his books?
*takes a deep breath and waits to be beaten down*

<TABLE STYLE="filter:glow(color=blue, strength=glow)"> <TR><TD><center> ~*Sarah*~[i]All that is gold does not glitter
Not all those who wonder are lost
The old that is strong does not wither
Deep roots are not reached by the frost
From the ashes, a fire shall be woken
A light from the shadows shall spring
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken
The crownless again shall be king.
-Strider, The Lord of the Rings</TABLE> </p>

[Samwise of the shire]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 61</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re:Okay,I'm trying to stay calm and composed

Welcome to the Barrow-downs Sarah,hope you enjoy posting here, and I need to apologize for somethings#1 not making clear the real thing that ticks me off about HP -Actually I figured it out yesterday,so I did'nt think about the real reason I started this argument-and for acting like an idiot.The real reason-as I figured out yesterday-I dont like HP is because it degenerates Christians in that well lookit the Dursleys,they are against magic of anytype-now even though I'm a Christian,I still read books that have wizards int hem so what makes HP different?-and in the Bible God states that all magic is wrong especially the type of magic that HP does-ex:divination,curses-.Now I know that Gandalf is a wizard but -and I say but hard- Gandalf is a christ figure,he comes down to help men,he leads men,he dies for the fellowship,and rises again,and Tolkien WAS a Christian-lookit Frodo he saves a world he only knows in legends, and is humble,loving,caring and yet strict and accusing when he needs to be and he also carries a burden-.Well to get back to the topic,the Dursleys are big blundering oafs that are cruel,stupid and mean hearted,and their against magic and so are alot of Christians,so it's sort of like saying anyone who's against magic-like some Christias-are stupid cruel oafs that have no idea whats going on,and has anyone noticed what Malfoy wears to the yule ball in the fourth book?A long black robe with a high collar...a vicars garb-a vicar is an episcipalon priest- and it makes Malfoy look like an idiot not to make fun of Christians but to make fun of Malfoy...as if being a Christian makes you a fool.But why does Malfoy wear an episcipalon robe he's not episcipalon?
And has anyone noticed all the death portents in HP?
Ghosts,Padfoot-a padfoot in celtic lore is a death portent why does a goodguy use a death name for a nick name?-the sapping of Ginny's soul,the Dementors-who still remind me of the black riders-,the sacrafice of the unicorn just to name a few.But think about it,okay-and please dont try to say LOTR is also full of death lookit Boromiror or something else like that.Of course it is but the death is a part of the badguys side of things not the good guys and theres always a solution to a problem all the charecters have to do is think about it Ex:Sam when he thinks Frodo is dead, he takes the ring after thinking a bit-.
And Burrahobbit,thinK Gollum was a BG and he could never be good again -even if he was once-Gollum had a place and that was to be evil and to fall in to the cracks of doom with the ring a -horrible death I agree-.
And Hannah was that tongue at the top of your last post supposed to insult?If so Icongradulate you it worked very well.If not well I'm just being stupid so ignore me ok,can we have a truce?
And Sarah like I said before welcome to the Barrow downs and dont worry all that happens here is arguing the folks here dont cut down, we just debate and if there's any name calling it's not here,Hey who's your fav.chareter?Mine's....have you guessed it's Sam<img src=smile.gif ALT="">
well gotta see whats goin on
Samwise


</p>

[burrahobbit]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit
Posts: 704</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Re:Okay,I'm trying to stay calm and composed

As I've said before, Gollum almost turned good at several points (because of Frodo's kindness), but every time Sam pushed him back to the dark side.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[Hannah 3]

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End!

OK. A lot of points to make. Firstly, no the tongue was not supposed to be insulting. In Hogwarts, people could take a joke! (In case I haven't told you yet, my 'Hannah 3' was a character who went to a wonderful 'hogwarts'. So I am very feircely defending Harry <img src=wink.gif ALT=""> )

Secondly, don't worry, Sarah won't be put off by the debate, she was my best friend at Hogwarts and that's the reason she came.

Thirdly, as I am jewish myself, and have recently been arguing with the KKK about how that does not make me bad, I am not about to get into a religious discussion here. I'm sick of them.

And now... the debate itself...
Sam was mean to Gollum right from the beginning. The fact that he tried to kill them afterwards has nothing to do with it, exceot to prove how wrong Sam's behavior was.
I can think of plenty of childrens books with morals - Little Women, for one - but the characters slip up, make mistakes. You're never going to convince me that HP is without morals.
Since most of your second post is ground I'm not about to get mixed up in, I can't reply to anything in it except yes, we'll have a truce - most of this argument has felt very irrational and silly, and besides, like I say, being a reform jew I don't want to get into discussions about christianity.
Yes, Hermione is a good character. So? It's right to hold grudges against bad people and not bad people? She did something that he thought was wrong - alowed her pet to kill his. So when the bad guy does something good, you're not allowed to make him better still by being nice? And when a good guy does something bad, you're not allowed to blame them because on the whole they're good? Read Jane Eyre, what Helen Burns says - 'Savages hold that doctrine, but Christians disown it' - when Jane says she has a right to hate her aunt, because her aunt is bad.
If you call Christianity holding a grudge against Gollum before he actually DID something, I don't. Not that I would know.. I'm out of my depth. So this is the end. Unless you bring in more HP/JRRT debates.

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

[Zoe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 297</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Re:Okay,I'm trying to stay calm and composed

I can't believe I'm spending so much time on this topic <img src=wink.gif ALT=""> :

1. anyone who could possibly mistake the Dursleys for Xians needs their heads checked. Agreement on one SMALL issue doesn't mean much at all.

2. a long black robe with a high collar is a draclua suit, not a vicar's garb. For one, unless Church traditions as you know them are drasticly different to Church traditions as I know them, vicars wear all sorts of colours, and have a WHITE garment over the top of their ordinary clothes. (I'm presuming Church of England traditions are similar to Australian Anglican ones (same basis), and that if Rowling wished to mock the Church, she would mock that.)

3. Padfoot- Reference to walking softly, I'd say. Where did you get the Celtic link from?

</p>

[Samwise of the shire]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Re:that was hard to figure out

but I got through.Whoaa good points,especially Hannahs good job,but what I'm saying is that HP charecters hold grudges and all sort of stuff all the time-ok ok sure Hermione and Ron become friends again and all-but once the charecters are out of trouble they get back into trouble IMMEDIATLY after getting out of the previous trouble.Make sense?And another thing why are'nt there more severe punishments at Hogwarts?Seriously I thing that Snape has the right idea-Ok people are'nt gonna like me for that one-and yes Malfoy DOES wear a vicars robe-I'll have'ta find the letter or article that Mom downloaded and read about HP and post some quotes on here.-Burra. you REALLY like Gollum dont you?I'm gonna have to give you the Scrolls Of Orthanc website,the guy who runs it
answers questions,and one of the ones I asked was &quot;if he had lived could Gollum been free of the lust of the ring&quot;?And it almost made me cry,that poor pathetic creature doomed to die either way,#1 the way he didi it:Frodo claimed the ring and would never give it up,and Gollums lust for the ring over came Frodo's and ...well we all know what happened.#2 if he HAD turned good then Gollum would have pittied Frodo and then taking the ring by force he would have cast himself into the cracks of doom to save Frodo,but he didnt and I think that the books are more exiting with the first way of getting rid of the ring instead of the second.Dont you-although it is discusting either way yuck-?And on the gollum issue,I think that Gollum started to hate Frodo when he had the debate on wether or not to take the ring,and he was going to kill Frodo if Sam had'nt started to &quot;wake up&quot;and that one part where Frodo has to speak sharply to him to get him moving,thats when he started lapsing into his precious mode again,so it was'nt all Sams fault.
Hannah I was talking to everyone in general about the HP christian thing,not just you and if you dont want to talk about it what do you sugjest we talk about-I dont want to go into the copy thing again-?
The cooled down
sam
ps I had all these points and stuff and I forgot them that stinks bad

</p>

[Hannah 3]

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Re: Re:that was hard to figure out

*Splutter*
Why aren't there more severe punishments???
OK, that took me by surprise. If you want them to go back to Filch's thumbscrews, I don't think anyone'll agree with you...
This answering-questions person is no authority. Only Tolkien could answer a question like that, and otherwise it's a matter of opinion. I, at least, think Sam should have tried. He couldn't know, (as Aslan would say) what would have happened. If he'd been a perfect character, that's what should have happened. He's not, so I don't blame him, but the way you talk makes it sound like Sam should have been MUCH nicer to Gollum.
Yes, they immmediately break friends because something happens again - so? If Scabbers had 'died' a month later and till then they'd stayed friends, would that make a difference?
I think, actually, I'd have much prefered Gollum to kill himself. I really, really like Gollum. I want him to die well.
I have to go, but I finally say, please show me that article when you find it, OK?


~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

[Samwise of the shire]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Rekay okay

I'll try to find it but my Mom sort of fried the puter and might have lost it when she fried it,ah were does it sound like Sam should have been nicer in my post?Tell me k<img src=smile.gif ALT=""> um Hannah you have no idea who this guy is do you?He read tolkiens letters and can answer anything you ask,unfortunatleyI have'nt been on his website recently but when I do I'll tell you where to go.I dont think that torture is the right answer,I said SNAPE had the right idea about things not FILCH what I meant was HP should be at least expelled for a month or something like that,his heroics indanger hogwarts-he does'nt tell Dumbledore about tom rddles diary fer duhhh-and dont help the school

</p>

[burrahobbit]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit
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Re: Re:that was hard to figure out

Yes, I do like Gollum, and what the guy at Scrolls of Orthanc says doesn't matter. Tolkien says in Letters that Gollum would have become good if not for Sam's constant nastiness.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000062>burrahob bit</A> at: 3/23/01 8:13:21 pm

[Hannah 3]

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Re: Rekay okay

You might be calming down, but I'm not <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

Filch, Snape, both evil, same difference
Well, not quite, but anyway. Just what did Harry do to deserve being expelled? (If it's for a month it's suspension, but anyway...) Not tell Dumbledore about the diary. How was he supposed to know that Tom Riddle was evil? If he'd told Dumbledore, he thought that meant Hagrid in trouble. And Hagrid already WAS in trouble.
Also, do you call saving a pupil's life, and helping with all the others that were Petrified, not helping the school? Then what IS helping the school?
No, I have no idea who this guy is and I stick to the idea that it's personal opinion only w/ Gollum. I really like Gollum. Besides, what about the second ending? He kills himself to help Frodo. He's good in that one.

Not Sam - You're not critisizing the L.R. - but you made it sound like Ron shouldn't even be allowed to get mad at Hermione. I'm translating that into all characters should be forgiving and so on, meaning SAM.

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

[Samwise of the shire]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Rekay okay okay okay sue me

HELLO WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!Sam had more sense not to trust Gollum,then Frodo had to trust the stinker,Sam knew that Gollum was evil,-and I dont think that evil can be forgiven-he knew at any rate that Gollum was up to something-oh sure Frodo had a burden and all,and that might result in his mixing up on the Gollum thing-.And where in the heck in Tolkiens letters does it say that Gollum could have been good?and burra I think that Gollum started to mistrust Frodo when Frodo leads him to Faramir,and he could've murdered Frodo if SAM had'nt *woken up*notice:MURDERED Gollum was a murderer he killed his cousin-and dont say it was the ring's influence,Did it work that fast on Frodo,or on Sam or on any other bearer? I dont think so-for the stinking thing.And know that I've blown some steamlets get back to the real subject.AHH Hannah one thing,what does HP's not doing anything do?It gets more of his peers turned into solid rock,if I had been HP I wold have told Dumbledor something about the diary or answered &quot;yes sir I think I know something&quot;but did HP?noo he had to go and do something that could have cost him his LIFE and lots of good that would have been to the school and to get to the point of saving his friends what did he do?He STOLE-something that should have expelled him for life-from a teachers office-okay he did'nt steal Hermione did but he came up with the idea-and that is something I would'nt wanta hero to have on his record.
The throughly outraged
Sam

</p>

[Zoe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 300</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Rekay okay okay okay sue me

I'm getting sick of saying this:

Just because Gollum is &quot;bad&quot; doesn't make it alright for Sam/Frodo/whoever to mistreat him. Especially not according to the Christian principles you think should be applied to Harry Potter. After all, Jesus hung around with prostitutes, tax collectors and criminals, the real-life &quot;Gollums&quot;. If you are so eager to &quot;nice-ify&quot; harry potter, because it's not as good as the LotR, perhaps you should look at the morals of Sam again.



</p>

[Hannah 3]

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Re: Rekay okay okay okay sue me

Zoe has said all I need about Gollum.

As to Harry - the diary told him that one of his best friends had opened the thing. Would you be so happy to tell the headmaster, 'I think my best friend opened the chamber'? Secondly, I know it doesn't look too good, but If he hadn't gone himself, it would have been no use. You KNOW that. What he did to get in and find out about it might not have been the most moral things he could do, but they are entirely necessary.

I'm tired of this argument...

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
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Re: Rekay okay okay okay sue me

Oh! For *beep* sake!
Okay okay! Harry's THIRTEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm nearly 13 and if i was faced with that situation I wouldn't have told Dumbledore. Anyway, how would the story have worked out if Harry had done all the things you wanted him to? JK cant please every Blimmin' person on this planet! He's a bloody adolescent! He's supposed to be immature and un-adultish! Geez!

(*blows up* feeling better now)

<TABLE STYLE="filter:glow(color=blue, strength=glow)"> <TR><TD><center> ~*Sarah*~[i]All that is gold does not glitter
Not all those who wonder are lost
The old that is strong does not wither
Deep roots are not reached by the frost
From the ashes, a fire shall be woken
A light from the shadows shall spring
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken
The crownless again shall be king.
-Strider, The Lord of the Rings</TABLE> </p>

[Samwise of the shire]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 72</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re:right that does it.

As you might not know I'm bloody thirteen and I behave better than HP and lookit twelve is h-e- double hockey sticks compared to thirteen,and so if Harry Potter is going to act like a bloody adolesent it should have been when he was twelve-or fouteen seeing as we girls mature faster-not when he was thirteen-oh bye the way he does act like a bloody adolesent when He is twelve forgot that forgive me-,and most teens are'nt reballious like HP, oh nother thing KIDS BOOKS would you let a thir dgrader read the fourth harry potter book?I would'nt you know why? Because lookit at all the blamed sorcery goin on in the thing,Lord Voldemort comes back to life-another stab at christianity- by SORCERY I mean I didi'nt read that chapter before I went to sleep,It toatally scared me in the middle of the daytime,nother question:Have any Harry Potter charecters made you want to be like them?What I mean is this, Have any HP charecters attitudes make you want to be like them?Understandble?Hannah I sort of agree with you on the fact that this is a tiring subject-uses up all my puter time as well-so maybe it'd be best if we gave up on this subject or something like that.Majority vote anyone?
Samwise of the Shire
Ps you remind me of Gimli when the hunters in the two towers find the hobbits again-only he didi'nt swear<img src=biggrin.gif ALT="">

</p>

[Elenanna]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
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Re: Re:right that does it.

Just wondering, did you have Harry's upbringing? Did you lose your mum and dad when you were young and have to live with people who hated you?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>
and so if Harry Potter is going to act like a bloody adolesent it should have been when he was twelve-or fouteen seeing as we girls mature faster-not when he was thirteen-
<hr></blockquote>

And what's that supposed to mean?!! He can act like an adolescent when he's twelve or fourteen and not thirteen? JKR had absolutely no intention of 'making a stab' at Christianity, and of course Voldemort used Sorcery to get a body, he's a WIZARD!!! Note: Voldemort did not 'come back to life' as he was never dead.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>
Because lookit at all the blamed sorcery goin on in the thing
<hr></blockquote>

As I said: It's a series of books <u>about wizards</u> Of course it's going to have sorcery in it!

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>
What I mean is this, Have any HP charecters attitudes make you want to be like them?
<hr></blockquote>

Yes, I like Hagrid, because of his kind nature and love of animals, he will never betray the animals, as he considers them his friends, even though it puts himself in trouble. I like Harry because he is not proud, he always tries to support his friends and his house. I like more, but I'm not going to put them here. Anything I've missed?

Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000112>Elenanna </A>&nbsp; <IMG SRC=http://www.ezboard.com/ezgfx/gicons/white_star.gif BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 3/26/01 9:49:28 pm

[Hannah 3]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
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Re: Re:right that does it.

Sorry I posted twice by accident - ignore this

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000108>Hannah 3</A>&nbsp; <IMG SRC=http://www.clipartcastle.com/anim3/shining_star.gif BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 3/27/01 11:19:05 am

[Hannah 3]

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Re: Re:right that does it.

JK Rowling wrote the first book for children 9+, and meant there to be a book a year, so the readers grow up with Harry Potter. Not for a seven year old, excited by the way everyone talks about it and so on, to read all the books at once and have nightmares for a month. You can't blame her on that one.
Yes, she read the books to her daughter when the girl was seven - but she said 'seven is really pushing it', and after all, this is her daughter - children at school obviously talked to her about the next book, does she know anything about it, is her mum really JKR, and so on and so on. Besides, she was reading it with her daughter, supporting her and trying not to scare her badly - her daughter cried at one point, when Harry sees his 'smoke' parents, but then, JK cried when she wrote it.

Yes, understandable question. So skipping Harry and Hagrid which Elenanna kindly did for me, I'll say Hermione totally reminded me of me about that SPEW thing - I'm into animal rights. And I would like to be as fearless as she is about them.
And Lupin is a wonderful character, too. Resigned so quietly, acceptingly - sticks up for Neville right in the beginning - overall so nice.
Also, I agree that it is ridiculous to say when Harry is allowed to be an adolesent and when he isn't.

I think you'll find that very few, if anyone, was against HP in this topic, except you, Samwise - but go ahead, start a poll and get it over with <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
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Re: Re:right that does it.

*frowns*I agree with all that and *smirk* How do you think the poll would turn out? Incase your blind, none of us are on your side *laughs at you*

(*grin* What a nice compliment. NOT!<img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> neway.Do you have ICQ? or AIM?)

<TABLE STYLE="filter:glow(color=blue, strength=glow)"> <TR><TD><center> ~*Sarah*~[i]All that is gold does not glitter
Not all those who wonder are lost
The old that is strong does not wither
Deep roots are not reached by the frost
From the ashes, a fire shall be woken
A light from the shadows shall spring
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken
The crownless again shall be king.
-Strider, The Lord of the Rings</TABLE> </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000256>Sarah Glaze</A>&nbsp; <IMG SRC=http://www.harrythecat.com/Graphics/k/angel12.gif BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 3/27/01 10:21:28 am

[Voronwe]

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Re: Re:right that does it.

Excuse the double post - see below.



-Voronwë
<font size="2">"For Aldarion had become enamoured of the Great Sea, and of a ship riding there alone without sight of land, borne by the winds with foam at its throat to coasts and havens unguessed; and that love and desire never left him until his life's end."</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000143>Voronwe</A> at: 3/27/01 10:11:14 am

[Voronwe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
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Re: Re:right that does it.

I hope you don't mind if I toss in my opinion on this.

I have read all four Harry Potter books, and, despite them being written for children, I enjoyed them. I didn't notice any strong similarities to Tolkien at all. In fact, I'd go as far to say that Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings are two completely different types of book. The Lord of the Rings is an epic told on a huge scale, while Harry Potter is a children's story, told on a personal level. This doesn't make Harry Potter better or worse than the Lord of the Rings. They cannot be compared.

I didn't see any derogatory references to Christianity, and I find it hard to understand why an author such as JK Rowling would want to include such things in her books.

What made Harry Potter such immensely popular children's books? They are exciting and, most importantly, they are set in the real world - with the key difference of magic. The characters have real faults and real emotions. They aren't meant to be perfect role models - they're meant to be real, believable people. If all the main characters in Harry Potter had been flawless, I would probably have put the book down after the first few chapters.


-Voronwë
<font size="2">"For Aldarion had become enamoured of the Great Sea, and of a ship riding there alone without sight of land, borne by the winds with foam at its throat to coasts and havens unguessed; and that love and desire never left him until his life's end."</p>

[Hannah 3]

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Re: Re:right that does it.

*Shocked* Sarah!

Voronwe, I agree with that. Otherwise, nothing to say... I actually came to say, Sarah, if you're going to talk like that I'd rather you never posted!

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

[Grey Fool]

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Welcome me back later. I sense some nonsense afoot

Hello.
As I said, you can welcome me back later.

First, you have blatantly ripped off the name of Samwise Gamgee from a hitherto notorious source, so to speak of plagiarism is either utterly blind or incredibly self-indulgent.

Second, what a shame you couldn't read the Harry Potter books and enjoy them for what they are, rather than
spending loads of time scouring for Tolkien comparisons.

Third, JK Rowling is no more a rip-off artist than Tolkien; both inadvertently became famous for doing what they love, what's more they both began writing for their children, in an effort to nourish their love of stories, nothing more. Their success was entirely due to their individual skill and consistency.

I hereby rubbish your point altogether.

Well at least you got yourself noticed, however preposterous your claim; all you need to do now is
post something interesting. Congratulations for getting
so many responses <img src=rolleyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes">

</p>

[Samwise of the shire]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 78</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re:ninny hammers and noddles

What in the heck do you think that Sam would do if he were here?I really think he would'nt agree with Harry Potter and I APOLOGIZED for acting like an idiot so I ask you again forgive me for acting like an idiot Is that good enough for you? Actually Hannah I have no idea how to set up a poll so maybe anyone who's in favor say &quot;aye&quot; if not in favor say &quot;nope&quot;.Grey fool do you think that just cause I'm comparing HP with LOTR NOW that I did'nt like them before?HECK NO!!!!! As a matter of fact I could'nt wait for my G-ma to give me the next book,I read the books two or three times so dont think that just cause I'm arguing against Harry Potter that I did'nt like him before hand, and what do you sugjest I do about my name if you think I should change it?I still would pick a hobbits name or a hero in LOTR.Sarah I relized that you all hate my guts for not liking Harry Potter and frankly I dont care.
the in a bad mood
Samwise of the shire

</p>

[Zoe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 304</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Re:ninny hammers and noddles

{I apoligise if this wasn't adressed to me, but...)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I relized that you all hate my guts for not liking Harry Potter<hr></blockquote>
I would like to think that you didn't consider me to be so petty as to hate someone because I don't agree with them. In fact, if I did, I would be a hypocrite. Sam - I may not agree with you, but I don't hate you at all. Friends? <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

BTW: &quot;ninny hammers and noddles&quot;? Sounds like something the DLF from Prince Caspian would say. Is it? <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

</p>

[the Lorien wanderer]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 286</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Re:ninny hammers and noddles

Absolutely in agreement with Zoe. Everyone's different. Your hating HP is hardly reason enough for us to hate you.

What if - what if this is as good as it gets?</p>

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
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Re: Re:ninny hammers and noddles

Oh I dont hate u! I just adore arguing!

~*~Sarah~*~Of Ye Olde Times</p>

[Hannah 3]

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Re: Re:ninny hammers and noddles

Samwise - of course we don't hate you, we just disagree with you. <img src=wink.gif ALT="">
And you mustn't blame the Grey Fool for thinking that since you first read it you've been comparing it to Tolkien - because if you look back on the way you argued, you were always saying how immoral it was, even not compared to Tolkien. It's unsurprising that people assume that you've always thought the same thing. <img src=smile.gif ALT="">
And in case anyone was confused, Sarah Glaze = Sarah of Last Hope.

((Zoe - DLF? Who's the DLF? *Thinking hard*
Oh him! Dear little friend... <img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Yes, it does sound like him. Of course, I haven't read the books in a while... <img src=ohwell.gif ALT=":/"> ))



~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

[Zoe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 305</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Re:ninny hammers and noddles

Actually, I couldn't remember his real name, and couldn't be bothered looking it up... <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

</p>

[KayQy]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 187</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Re:ninny hammers and noddles

I think everyone's said most of what I wanted to say, so just a few points to be cleared up:

1. When did you start having problems with the HP books, then, if you liked them at first? (just curious)

2. Is the poll you're calling for to see who agrees/disagrees with you, or who wants to drop the thread?

p.s. My sister read the 4th HP book when she was 9, and she doesn't seem to be seriously traumatized in any way, though I could ask her opinion on their morality if you like.

Truth will outlast both fact and fiction.</p>

[Samwise of the shire]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 79</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re:Friends (btw ninny hammers and noodles is Sam's

favorite saying,besides numbskull)Trumpkin is the dwarf's name, He's the funniest charecter in Prince Caspian, but Lewis DID copy Tolkien- my Mom told me that- and JRRT was Not at all happy about it, I mean My Mom read Lewis' trilogy and Merlin came from the line of wizards the Gandalf came from,and Lewis'angels are called elder-sound familiar?- But thats in Lewis' trilogy. And thanks you guys, did you know that youre the first friends I have on this forum-Besides Gilthalion and thats just 'cause we're both christians-?
Oh in answer to your questions KQ I first started having an iffey feeling about HP when I realized how disobedient HP is,but then My Mom read an article -that I cant find- about the demantors -that suck the soul out of people -she was like &quot;the books have that in them?&quot;- and the voldemort part in The Goblet of Fire and stuff so I guess it's sort of Parential iffiness, But I got this Faery enciclopidia out of the library and read an article about PADFOOTS:Large black dogs that follow a person whos gonna die quietly, so why should a good guy use a name used for a death omen?Oh as for the wormtounge wormtail thing I thought of something&quot;good masster kind masster&quot; &quot; oh master have'nt I been a good Pet?&quot;notice the Master thing Peter used it and guess who else used the master for wheddling? Gollum and so I saw a simalaritie there.Well I gotta sign on this toatally awsome christian website so I gotta go
samwise of the shire
Ps the poll was to see if anyone wanted to drop the HP argument, but we can keep this open just to have a good excuse for arguing, or just a place we could talk



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