Treachery of Men Discussion/Planning Thread

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Cool. I told Ang... I definately need to brush up on my period knowledge. But I'll fumble along until I figure it out and everybody ought to feel free to correct any mistakes I make.

No promises as to when I can get a bio up. By Saturday seems like a plausible deadline based on my schedule...

[Folwren]

Thank you, Pio and Anguirel! I am looking forward to this game. I think Ulfast will be a very interesting character to write about.

A few questions concerning the character. . .

How old do you think the three brothers are? Is Uldor very young? (20's?) Is Ulfast the middle one? (I would like that, actually, but I'll see what Celuien would prefer, too) I had an interesting, vivid picture pop up in my mind this morning about my character being a man in his mid 30's, simmering with anger under his little brother's ruling thumb with his father. Haha.

I will second Fea's comment on having to brush up on the time period. I know next to nothing about it. I'll look at the links you provided. . .also, is there some chapter in the Sil. that I could read through?

I think that's all for now. Till later!

-- Folwren

[piosenniel]

See the next page for the updated CHARACTER/PLAYER LIST.

Thanks!

~*~ Pio

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I just had the most brilliant realization that I finally get to write evil monologues. That is downright exciting.

[piosenniel]

Durelin

Was poking about on a sims site - look what I found:

Thuringwethil

~*~ Pio

[Anguirel]

And my copy and pasted PM is now miles away after I again switch computers! Never mind, I'll write another talking about Ulfang. As for the time commitment stuff, the gist of my PM was saying that Ulfang isn't too worrying from that perspective.

My bio is coming up shortly. In the meantime, I'll answer your questions as best I can.

The best Sil chapter overall to read for this RP is probably "Of the Fifth Battle". It tells you the details of the treachery of Uldor in the Nirnaeth. Apart from that, wider readers might like to look up "Swarthy Men" and "Brodda" in the index for more of our scant information about Easterling life.

It is unknown which of Ulfang's elder sons was the eldest of the three, so if you want to be the middling, Folwren, then Ulwarth can be oldest for our purposes.

Uldor's age is unknown, but men lived briefly and intensely in warrior societies. Personally I'd imagine him in his late-twenties. It's up to all you Ulfang family players to work out your ages between you. For the purposes of this RP Ulfang needs to be old and losing his grip, but that can mean anything from 50-70...

Also, remember you might well be brothers by different mothers. But you might want to be full brothers for more intense kinstrife angst.

pio, I've done some reading and my timing for the start is a bit out. Can we start in spring, not winter, about April?

There. Now to go and grab my character description.

[Anguirel]

Linked ~*~ Pio

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Anguirel's character

NAME: Lachrandir

AGE: About five hundred years

RACE: Noldorin Elf of the House of Fëanor

GENDER: Male

WEAPONS: Lachrandir carries a dirk he has forged himself with all his skill, but no sword, for he comes to the Ulfings as an envoy of his Lord and a friend to their Chieftain.

APPEARANCE: Caranthir tends, through some oddity of character, to favour those cast approximately in his own mould. Such is Lachrandir, standing tall among Elves and a giant among men at over seven feet; his black hair long, but tied securely back in a plait to keep it from his vision; his eyes shining with harsh fire. He is clad in a black tunic emblazoned with a white Star of Fëanor, like all those who serve the Seven Princes. His horse is a grey, that is, it is white.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: Practical as ever, Caranthir chose Lachrandir to carry the summons of Maedhros to the Ulfing tribes for one reason only: he is the fastest rider of all Caranthir’s suite. Lachrandir has no training, or even interest, in diplomacy. His speech is haughty and brusque, but his respect once won will not be forfeited. At the time of setting out on his mission, he sees Men as little different from Dwarves-unlovely auxiliaries, but vital if the Dark Enemy of the World is to be stopped.

HISTORY: Lachrandir was one of a band of ten or so who Caranthir dominated utterly in his youth. They hunted, forged, drank, and when it came to the Kinslaying fought together. When Caranthir took the land of Thargelion as his own, Lachrandir and his fellows became indispensable to him; Elves who answered him honestly and treated politics and intrigue with contempt; competent and loyal to the bone. Caranthir dubbed them his Companions, and they are still his favoured agents, whether as envoys, bodyguards or hunters. The loss of Thargelion changed little, though three Companions were killed defending their Lord at the Bragollach.

None of the Companions have taken a wife, sustained by their fellowship of cast iron with the others. Some left sweethearts in Valinor, and Lachrandir is one of these; he abandoned a Noldorin girl of Finarfin’s house to follow Fëanor. He has not thought of her for decades.


------------------------------


FIRST POST FOR THE GAME




"Yet neither by Wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men."

~~~

For the first year since the Battle of Sudden Flame, it felt as if spring had repelled the pitiless touch of the north, as if the Earthqueen’s power had pervaded Beleriand after a long estrangement. The pair of riders upon iron-grey mounts forded the rivulets off the Gelion, careered through the meadows succoured by the waters beyond its banks, and cut swift, leafy paths through copses.

Only one indication of the danger that this temporary idyll still risked could be discerned – the speed which the riders maintained. It spoke of urgency and intensity. There was something insatiable about the journey of the two Elves, as if even the spans of their lives were limited after all, as if bare months of this vitality remained to be enjoyed, raced through, swigged to their dregs. And so, as it turned out, it came to pass.

But such reflections are suitable only for melancholic lays, for sad dreamers who hope that thinking of the past and lamenting it may bring it back again. Lachrandir, Knight of the Dispossessed, formerly of Thargelion, was no dreamer; and this was not a memory of the past, rather a duty of the present. He galloped on, his eyes on his path, his hands calm and inert at his side, belying the frenetic activity that gripped the messenger and the stallion that bore him. In lieu of a saddle-bag – for his was a high-blooded beast, and he did not presume to sully it with harness and reins, instead riding bareback in the usual Elven fashion – he bore a leather haversack slung across his back; its contents, carefully arranged, did not make a sound or apparently jostle at all on the journey.

The same could not quite be said of the other rider’s burden. There was a strange symmetry about the pair of mounted travellers and their steeds; for they were much of the same stamp in colouring and feature – the Elves dark haired and long-limbed, the horses pale - but one rider and his horse were younger and smaller, with a combination of impetuosity and hesitance that called to mind apprentices before their masters. A jangle of metal now rang out from this younger Elf’s bundle.

“I told you, Tathren, to be careful with the silver,” Lachrandir hectored at him. “We’re riding to a country where nine Men in ten have never seen a coin before; a country still wild and far from tamed with law. The summons we carry is of vital importance, boy; we can’t let it go astray due to some adan thug’s excitement over a glint of...”

“Sorry,” the other said, sounding a little crestfallen.

“Never mind, boy, it’s of little importance. But don’t let it happen again, Tathren.”

Lachrandir gave a short look back at his companion before resuming his watch on the road, spurring his stallion to a slightly higher pace. He has something of his uncle about him, I suppose. He’ll learn yet, he concluded to himself.

~~~

“...Forinasmuch as thou, Ulfang, called the Black, hath been accustomed to owe liege-homage, saving thy dignity amidst the tribes, to us, Caranthir, fourth son of Fëanor, rightful lord of Thargelion but for the false disseisin of the Enemy; by this and by the ties of loyalty between thy vassals and mine, thou art bidden to provide fighting men in service, to the number of seven thousand, under thine own command or under such a proxy as it pleases thee to dispatch, to meet with our own powers and those of our youngest brothers, the Lords Amrod and Amras, on the twenty-seventh day of the month of May; this army being dispatched, under the lordship of our eldest brother Maedhros, Lord of Himring, to avenge upon the Enemy the grievous and perfidious hurts that he hath inflicted. For amongst these art listed the slaying traitorly of our sire and grandsire, the ruin of our realms in the north, and the unlawful withholding of the Silmarilli, greatest work upon Arda, that our father Fëanor crafted, and that we hath sworn, on pain of the Everlasting Darkness, to regain. So it is ordained on this, the eleventh day of April. And we hath sworn, once having raised up this great Union of Maedhros, never to abandon it, and charge thee to swear likewise.”

Such was the main part of the missive of Caranthir, which Lachrandir carried.

~~~

“Lachrandir!” Tathren cried with gladness. “I see smoke rising not far off among homesteads, surrounding a great hall, hewn of oak and ash...”

“I have seen it too, pup,” Lachrandir answered, smiling. “Do not think that my sight is so greatly shadowed by age and toil. That is the rude dwelling of Ulfang, Chieftain of the Southern Easterlings. What do you think of it, lad?”

“Well...” Tathren started, his brow creasing and lips twisting as he tried to find the words. Lachrandir laughed, and his mirth, coming from such a stern visage, was surpassingly bright and clear.

“Well, exactly. I hope you weren’t expecting much in the way of hospitality...this is no Hithlum, Tathren, and it is no Hador Goldenhead who rules it. Put all you have seen and heard of the Edain from your head! This is Easterling country,” Lachrandir murmured, his smile thin now, “and it is another state of affairs altogether.”

They paused in thought for a few moments. Tathren was the first to speak.

“Stop dawdling, Uncle! Don’t you know the summons we carry is of vital importance?”

“Mind that minstrel’s glib tongue, you,” Lachrandir replied. And I’m not your uncle either; he was a better Elf than I’ll ever be, even if he did charge me with looking after you, young wastrel.

“Very well. Race me, boy,” he added, kicking his horse into a run and charging after the tiny stockade and palisade walls that beckoned in the distance. After a short while the envoy and his page bid their steeds halt in front of the gate into the settlement. As they passed, they had seen the first Ulfings of their journey, who had stared at the towering, fair-featured strangers bearing the star of Fëanor on their tunics in curiosity mixed with no little fright. The guards, too, goggled as they shuffled the gates open. Tathren quickly assumed an air of composure, though he rode tentatively, all too aware that he, an Elf far from mature, towered almost a foot over most of the Ulfings.

In such a manner the envoys reached their journey’s conclusion, passing under the wall where the two banners, Ulfang’s claw and Fëanor’s star on their black field, shifted together in the April breeze.




-----


There we go. Oh, and Mith...one thing your page does need...a very fast horse...maybe it can be one of my stallion's colts...

[piosenniel]

Ang

I changed the start of the game to Spring (April) of 471 -- so that gives about 2 months game-time until the war starts on Midsummer's Day.

[Folwren]

I looked up our family in the Silmarillion Index and looked up where they were first mentioned. Tolkien gave the names of the sons of Bor and then gave the names of the sons of Ulfang:

The sons of Unflang the Black were Ulfast, and Ulwarth, and Uldor the accursed. . .

I would assume that he named the sons in order of oldest to youngest. If we go with that assumption, could Celuien and I switch characters? I don't absolutely have to play the middling, but I would prefer it. However, if Celuien would like to keep Ulwarth and be the middle son, I would still be happy and satisfied to let her take the part she wants. In fact, I would be more happy to have Celuien happy than for me to remove her from her prefered place as middle son.

-- Folwren

[piosenniel]

Folwren

Can you please PM Celuien about this and come to some agreement.

I don't think she was particularly attached to either of the sons; she just wanted to play one of them (I assigned her that one, in fact).

Anyway - straighten it out between the two of you and get back with what you've decided. Then I'll change it on the Character/Player List.

Thanks!

~*~ Pio

[Celuien]

No problem, Folwren. I'm happy to switch.

[Folwren]

Haha. Looks like we don't have to PM, Pio. Sorry for the inconveniene of filling the Planning Thread. I'm always confused about what to PM and what to just say on the threads. . .ah me.

Well, now it seems we're agreed. Anguirel, Pio - Celuien and I would like to switch characters. Ulfast being the oldest and Ulwarth being the middling, me playing Ulwarth and Celuien Ulfast.

Thanks!

-- Folwren

[piosenniel]

Changes have been made for the brothers -

~*~ Pio

[piosenniel]

Linked ~*~ Pio


Here's my Ulfing family.

For a quick reference, here they are at a glance:

Men:

Grímr 40 y/o (main character)
Falarr 19y/o
Fálki 19 y/o
Valr 13 y/o

~*~

Women:

Káta 35 y/o
Jóra 11 y/o

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Pio's character - Grímr


NAME: Grímr

AGE: 40

RACE: Eastern Man - Ulfing

GENDER: male

WEAPONS:

Small, domed hand held shield made out of spiral woven willow wicker and covered with thick ox hide; a dagger strapped to his left forearm, a small sword, 2 javelins; a lacquered composite bow made from layers of horn and sinew on a wood frame; 2 quivers of arrows holding about 30 arrows each of various kinds – short range, long range, whistling signal arrows, armor piercing with tempered tips, and incendiary. Owns a number of small, stocky horses he rides in battle.

APPEARANCE:

Height - 161 cm (5’3”); Weight - 66 kg (145 lbs); sturdily built, smoothly muscled; dark brown eyes; short, straight, black hair; no facial hair; wide face often creased with a generous smile; skin is light brown and ruddy from much time spent out of doors. Homespun grey or light brown tunics, worn over black breeches; a thick sheepskin vest; calf-high, brown, worn leather boots.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES:

The well-being of his family comes first for Grimr, then that of his village. This has at times put him at odds with his fellows; but even in the face of stiff opposition he can be very firm about his decisions. For the most part, he is an even tempered man; not given to fits of anger or over zealous enthusiasm. He does have a deep-seated sense of humor, which can at times prove an irritating trait.

HISTORY:

Grimr’s family was from the wide, grassy plains of the East, and given to the nomadic lifestyle. The raising of goats, sheep, and horses formed the hub about which his extended family prospered. At the age of twenty he married Káta, considered by him the most beautiful woman whose feet ever graced the Eastern plains. He gave her parents thirty horses as her bride-price, considering it small thing to pay for his heart’s desire.

A year later came the twins, Fálki and Falarr. Six years and a number of miscarried children and children lost to illnesses passed before his third son, Valr, was born. And Valr was followed two years later by a daughter, Jóra.

A little more than a year and a half ago, one of the elders of his family proposed that they might take up the offer of certain prominent friends from lands far to the west - that in exchange for their help in quelling certain unwanted intruders to the lands of their master, that same master would be generous with the giving of sizable portions of the land to those men who had aided him. That land, it was rumored, was much like their own home; only far more vast and rich in grasslands on which their flocks and herds would prosper.

Beneath the banner of Ulfang, the Iron Wolf, the families were gathered and had made the long, slow journey to the western plains in the lands near to the great sea. The sons of the House of Fëanor had welcomed them into the lands and it soon followed that the House of Ulfang swore allegiance to Caranthir, the fourth son of Fëanor.

At present, Grímr, and his family are living in a small village on the great plain west of the River Gelion. In addition to maintaining their flocks and crops, the Ulflings are preparing for the coming battle against the ruler in the North.

____________________


Grímr’s Family

1.) Káta, Grímr’s wife

AGE: 35

APPEARANCE/PERSONALITY: 156 cm (5’1” in) and 57 kg (126lbs); long, thick black hair worn up in a twist with a bright, wrapped head covering when out in public. Black eyes, small nose. Wears a simple midcalf, wool dress usually dark blue in color, with leggings beneath it depending on the weather; has various wool or cloth vests to wear on different occasions. Calf high, dark leather boots. Calm, quiet, easy smile. Fiercely protective of her children. She is as able a rider as her husband. And has an accurate eye when using her bow.

~*~

2.) Fálki
3.) Fastarr

Grímr’s twin sons

AGE: 19

APPEARANCE/PERSONALITY: Identical twins; slender, wiry frames. About and inch taller than their father. Dark eyed. Shoulder length black hair pulled back in a short ponytail at the napes of their necks. Are almost always seen in each other’s company. More serious in nature than their father. Since they will soon be looking to find wives and have their own families, the two young men are interested in any venture which might give them a chance to acquire land for themselves. They have fought in several small battles and have the same sorts of shields and weapons as their father has.

~*~

4.) Valr, Grímr’s youngest son

AGE: 13

APPEARANCE/PERSONALITY: 5 feet tall, very short jet black hair, black eyes; has a dreamy sort of personality; very quiet; much prefers time spent out with his dog herding the family goats or sheep to learning any fighting skills other than those needed to keep predators away from the flocks.

~*~

5.) Jóra, Grímr’s daughter

AGE: 11

APPEARANCE/PERSONALITY: 4’10”, long black hair worn in two braids with bangs. Enjoys following Valr about. She loves to talk and he indulges her with the occasional nod of the head. She also likes to know what is going on and will sneak about to listen at doors and windows.

------------------------------


piosenniel's post


‘Oh fuss and bother!’ Jóra looked quickly up at Granny Dulaan, her cheeks reddening at the old woman’s bemused look. ‘Well not you, Granny,’ she went on in way of explanation as she slid over on the long oaken bench. She fetched a soft cushion from beneath the bench and put it on the seat for Granny, patting it in invitation.

‘It’s just that I’m all thumbs this morning! I’ve managed to tangle this piece all up.’ She held up her knitting needles with as forlorn a look as she could manage on her eleven year old face. There, hanging between them, was what was supposed to be a cap for her father’s birthday. The start of a cap, that is…about twenty rows of bright red yarn; most of which were fairly even at the start, but had given up all hope in the last three or four rows. A number of the stitches were too tight, and a number too loose; the rows uneven.

Snick….snick…. The sharpening stone sang out against the arrowheads. Valr, with his thirteen years of wisdom, offered his brotherly opinion as he sat sharpening the twins’ arrows. ‘Looks like some great, old spider fell into the mead vat!’ He ducked quickly as his sister let go her ball of yarn in a quick aimed throw at his head. ‘Can’t throw either, can ya?!’ he snorted.

Before the skirmish could erupt into a full scale battle, Káta thumped on the hardwood frame of her loom with her shuttle, clearing her throat in a decisive manner. From across the large room, her black eyes sparkled with authority as she turned her face toward Valr and Jóra. ‘I like to keep a peaceful house,’ she said in a quiet voice that nonetheless was heard quite distinctly. ‘Take your little spat outdoors if you think you need to continue it.’ She sent her shuttle sliding between the loom threads. ‘Oh, and while you’re out there, we could use a few more rounds split and stacked on the woodpile.’

A duet of groans was heard as knitting and arrows were put away. Jóra stuck out her tongue at her brother as she passed near him on the way to the door. She pushed on the thick wool blanket which hung in the doorway and started to exit, then paused midstride. Ducking back inside she turned with a big grin on her face. ‘Hey! Papi and the twins are back from hunting!’ She peeked outside once more. Her muffled voice drifted back into the room. ‘Oh! And it looks like he’s brought Erling back with him.’ There were sounds of heavy footsteps as the men approached the doorway.

‘Hurry now!’ Káta said, rising up from her cushion. She smoothed down the skirt of her dress and pushed back a few stray hairs, securing them behind her ears. ‘Get the bread and cheese out from the food chest, Jóra. And you, Valr, get a big pitcher of ale from the new barrel. Just put them on the table, there, children. Granny, won’t you set out the cups, please.’

‘There you are, light of my life!’ Grimr’s voice boomed about the room as he entered. He grinned round at Granny and his two youngest children, his eyes falling at last upon his wife. ‘And haven’t your sons and I brought you a fine brace of geese and young buck to keep our bellies filled for a while. Fálki and Falarr are hanging them outside.’ He ruffled the hair of Jóra and Valr as they drew near to lean up against him. ‘Be a change from mutton, eh?’

He looked behind him, surprised not to see Erling. ‘Let the young fellows take care of our prizes, Erling,’ he called out the door. ‘Come and have a cup of ale with us!’




-----

[Naria]

Just to let Pio and Ang know, my character will be female. I will try and have her bio up by Friday at the latest.

Also I was thinking of her being in a family of some kind. Whether it be cousins or direct siblings, I just need to figure out how to work this. And one last thing, is there a link for names for Easterlings? I would like to find one that has a harsher ring to it, if possible.

[piosenniel]

Naria

Here's a couple of lists I used. They're Old Norse.

Old Norse Men’s names

~*~

Old Norse Women’s names

~*~ Pio

[Naria]

Thanks Pio! I'll take a look right away.

[Celuien]

I also found this website useful for Old English names.

I can't find details on Ulfast's birthdate in the Silmarillion, so I got a bit creative. I don't know how accurate this site is since I don't have a copy of HoME V on hand, but it gives these birth years for the brothers:

425
Birth of Uldor the Accursed son of Ulfand

428
Ulfast son of Ulfand born

430
Ulwar son of Ulfand born

...which actually throws off the middle child theory. But, again, I don't think that timeline (since those spellings didn't stay) survived editing, so I used this as an age guideline and went with the working plan here for birth order - Ulfast as the oldest child. So, in my description, Ulfast was born in 425 and will be 46 years old at the time of this game's opening. (Confusing!)

Any other suggestions on this?

[piosenniel]

Here's an interesting site which gives the meanings of Ulfang and sons names:

Uldor '*hideous-lord' (LR:396)
Ulfang '*hideous-beard' (LR:387,395)
Ulfast '*hideous-tangle-hair' (LR:381,396)
Ulwarth '*hideous-betrayer' (LR:396,397)

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In HoM-E V, The Lost Road and Other Writings, in "The Genealogies", here's what it says about Dad and sons:

Ulfand the Swart (Ulfang the Black) - b. 100 (400 FA)
Uldor (later called the Accursed) - b. 125 (425 FA)
Ulfast - b. 128 (428 FA)
Ulwar - b. 130 (430 FA)

The first dates are the original dates given by Tolkien.

In later Tolkien chronology, the dates would have been adjusted up by 300 years. (Adjusted dates in parentheses)

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[Anguirel]

That's clearly an older version. In the Silmarillion Uldor is the youngest of the brothers. And I'd like him to remain so for this RP.

But apart from that, the ages - though higher than I expected - aren't implausible, given that we're dealing with long-lived "patriarchs" of men.

Let's swap the brother's ages to the order Ulfast, Ulwarth, Uldor. There's a strong case that that was the newer version and it's more convenient in general.

That makes Ulfang 71 in 471 FA

Ulfast 46
Ulwarth 43
Uldor 41

At this age I expect you brothers can carry-along a harem and a horde of offspring if you want...

Dimturiel is interested in playing a woman of the Ulfings.

Oh and pio, could you slip one of those handy orange links to my character's bio on the Character List? I put it up earlier if you comb this page...I think it may have been submerged in the deluge...

[piosenniel]

Anguirel

Your character is linked.

Dimturiel is on the lists.

Please check your PM's for questions about the brothers' birth dates.

~*~ Pio

[Anguirel]

pio, I have to admit your evidence is superior to mine regarding the birth order-I was only inferring from the order in which the sons of Ulfang are listed in the Silmarillion.

If we stick to your dates then

Uldor is 46
Ulfast 43
and Ulwarth 41.

However, since I invented and put in the RP's background the idea that Uldor had been more than once banished to the east for murder and rape but ultimately allowed back, there can still be some question over a struggle for legitimacy.

Personally I still prefer Uldor being youngest but I can see the facts justify it only thinly.

Oh and one other important thing - Uldor is not yet called the Accursed; though a bad lot he is not yet known to be such by the Elves and has not yet committed his act of base treachery...

[Folwren]

I thought it would be very interesting to have the youngest brother be the 'favorite' of the father and have the other two terribly jealous of him. I mean, it wouldn't cause as much strife if he were the oldest and getting away with lording it over everyone.

-- Folwren

[Anguirel]

Well, Folwren, I agree with you, but the evidence doesn't agree with me!

pio, I referred to Uldor in the background as Ulfang's "youngest, most ruthless son"-could you adjust that to "eldest, most ruthless son"?

Finally, Folwren, if you still want the middling we'll have to swap you and Celuien again...

Oh dear. The brothers seem to be becoming interchangeable by their very nature!

[piosenniel]

Folwren

The dates of birth have to stand as they are. Since these are characters written for by Tolkien, we have to accept the background he gave them.

So:

From HoM-E V, The Lost Road and Other Writings, in "The Genealogies", here is what Tolkien wrote and Christopher edited:

Ulfand the Swart (Ulfang the Black) - b. 100 (400 FA)

Uldor (later called the Accursed) - b. 125 (425 FA)
Ulfast - b. 128 (428 FA)
Ulwar - b. 130 (430 FA)

-----

Ulfang - 71 y/o

Uldor is 46
Ulfast 43
and Ulwarth 41

As Ang says

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you want to switch to the middle-brother, Ulfast?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

So I'm oldest now?

[Folwren]

I won't argue.

And when it comes to it, I really don't care if I play the middle or youngest brother. I was mostly hesitant to play the oldest brother. . .being the oldest in the family is something I've never experienced and tend to not be able to connect with. I really have no preference now. Let's keep it as it is to avoid any more useless trouble. Celuien PMed me this morning asking me the same question and I just told her I'm happy with how things are. So, unless other people think otherwise, I can keep Ulwarth.

-- Folwren

[Anguirel]

Fea, yep, you're now the eldest.

As for your evil monologues...I'm certain you'll conjure up the malice of Iago, Edmund, Agravaine and Mordred rolled into one...

Lalaith and Child (I'm talking to you here to give my poor weary PM box a rest), I'm perfectly happy about your marital plans...!

[Folwren]

Celuien and I have settled it. We'll keep our present characters. I shall play Ulwarth, the youngest son, and Celuien Ulfast, the middling.

I'll try to start working on a character bio shortly.

-- Folwren

[Durelin]

Ah, just realized there's something that needs to be determined, and I wanted to check with you, Ang, as well as Fea on the matter.

Would Uldor have any idea who Thuringwethil is? Would he simply know her as a servant of Morgoth? Would he think her to be just a woman? Would that be how she presented herself even to him, but he would wonder if she was something else? I'm assuming she would not really use Thuringwethil as her name, but would that name be revealed to Uldor?

I'm thinking Uldor would only know that she was Morgoth's servant, and be left to wonder what he wished, just as long as it doesn't get him into trouble.

Fea and I can work this out, I'm sure, but I wanted to get the game founder's opinion, as well as any mod's.

And thanks for the Sims link, Pio! 'Tis quite interesting to actually see someone's take on her. I've started on her bio, though, and I must say I've strayed from such a 'classically' evil look quite a bit...for better or worse.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Durelin: I'll leave my knowledge of your identity up to you.

Everyone... My hope for posting a bio by Saturday currently seems an ambitious one. I have to revoke it in favor of a lot of apologies and "I'll have it up as soon as I can, I promise!"

[Child of the 7th Age]

Lalaith and Child (I'm talking to you here to give my poor weary PM box a rest), I'm perfectly happy about your marital plans...!

That is good. I'll start working on the profiles.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Besides the looks, is there any other guide-lines for my character ? I don't think I saw any, but I could have missed it.

I am a bit busy these day, but I shall try to have character ready before to long.

[Valier]

Hi all!!! I am trying to figure out who I should be....I am a little confused as to what Easterlings do day to day? And what may I ask do Female Easterlings look like? Do they look like the men? Also would they be farmers, or what? I am a little unsure yet and I know I won't be able to post a bio until I am a little clearer on some things... Help!! So are all the Ulfings bad? They want to join Morgoth? and the Hunters would never join Morgoth? Sorry I know I sound like a Noob, but I know all this will come into play day to day.

EDIT: Ok I have been doing a little reading...So Morgoth promised the Ulfing land if they make a pact to help him? and The Borrim Hunters would never make a pact? Just want to clear this up for myself...I will be checking all the links when I have time.

[Anguirel]

Kath (via PM) has raised some of the same questions as you, Valier, and some different. I'll attempt to field you both.

I am a little confused as to what Easterlings do day to day?

The Easterlings are a normal human society. Think a bit more savage than the Rohirrim, sort of on the Dunlending level. While warriors in times of war, most men - barring the household fighters of the Chieftain - will be basically farmers. Other professions could include smiths, fletchers, furriers, maybe even some kind of skald (bard) figure.

And what may I ask do Female Easterlings look like?

Like women usually do.

Do they look like the men?

We're not talking Dwarves here! But I know you didn't mean that...yes, they'll be dark, relatively short, not conventional beauties in the way of a Luthien or Eowyn, but certainly capable of their own particular brand of beauty.

Also would they be farmers, or what?

They'd help bring in the harvest and sow, so yes. In this spring season they'll be sowing their fields. Apart from that, they'll have deep family duties. A woman's place in this RP is, quite a lot of the time, in the home. They also need to sew clothes, prepare food, and talk. Pretty pre-feminist I know! But I think it may prove an interesting opportunity for character interaction. Romance, permitted and illicit, will no doubt stir the pot as well...

So are all the Ulfings bad?

Definitely not, though some are. Few are shining examples of goodness either. Kind of in between. Or that's the idea. This RP should hopefully show the moral complexity of their apparently simple lives.

They want to join Morgoth?

At the beginning, only those closest to Uldor (and Ulfang) are plotting with Morgoth. Most are loyal to their Chieftain, Ulfang, and just want to live as best they can. As such, they'll at first respond to the call of Ulfang's overlord Caranthir. But by the end Uldor's party should secretly hold numerical sway. Those characters who want to remain true will either be killed by Uldor's party or pretend to comply and flee in the Nirnaeth.

and the Hunters would never join Morgoth?

No, they wouldn't. They're used to life up north with Maedhros and Maglor at Himring and they know the evil the Dark Lord represents. They distrust, fear and hate him.

So, I've read the thread and I think I'm right in saying that the idea is to get an idea of life in the Easterling village, both first hand from those living there and second hand from the spies within it, and then for these Easterlings to march to war, all knowing that while they are supposed to be helping Caranthir they are actually going to help Morgoth. Yes?

Yes. But some "good" Ulfings may resist or flee when it comes to the battle (such actions will be described in the epilogue).

Anyway, the role that caught my eye was that of the Borrim hunter. How vociferous are these people in their decision never to help Morgoth?

They're determined, but not exactly vociferous, being quite taciturn and sullen men. They won't be traitors like the Ulfings, though.

Do they attract attention or are they ignored because they are outsiders and no one would listen to them?

Their ultimate role is to warn my character Lachrandir of a plot they suspect, urging him to report it to Caranthir. He will think it over and eventually dismiss it as nothing. Typical Noldorin hubris, maybe...

Plus in one of your links it says this:

In the 5th Battle of Beleriand the tribe of Bor fought with the Noldor, and most perished.

So does that mean that at some point the Borrim would split off from the Easterling group (I was assuming Ulfings and Borrims alike went together) knowing of their treachery?

Uldor's partisans won't trust the Borrim, knowing their loyalty, and won't let them into the plot. The Borrim will discover a hint of it anyway. At the end, the Borrim will march north with the rest, but with genuinely good intentions and foreboding in their hearts...

There. That's about it...do keep on questioning if you don't understand something...

PS

I have been doing a little reading...So Morgoth promised the Ulfings land if they make a pact to help him? and The Borrim Hunters would never make a pact?

Yes, that's right. Except think of it this way - Morgoth (via Thuringwethil) bribes Uldor with prospects of rewards and power; Uldor promises the Ulfings more land if they follow him into treachery.

There should maybe be an undercurrent of the Ulfings finding the land they hold under Caranthir not quite expansive enough for their numbers. After all, there are a lot of them...I'd say an army of 5000 would be quite a conservative guess for their fighting numbers.

[piosenniel]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Kath n' Valier's FAQs

Is Kath playing? Shall I put her name on the list for those in the game?

~*~ Pio

[Naria]

A woman's place in this RP is, quite a lot of the time, in the home. They also need to sew clothes, prepare food, and talk. Pretty pre-feminist I know!

Ang, if this is the case, what purpose is there to have female players in this rpg? Are we here for "fillers"? And since they are understandably pre-feminist, I wouldn't think that any of the women would be allowed to go into battle. So at that point in the rpg, what are we supposed to do with our female characters? Besides talking to our four lil' walls of our home . I understand that we can converse with other characters, but that will only be so entertaining and then what?

(I bolded the first question because that is my main query)

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

oooooooo -- one of those Borrim Hunters looks SO interesting and so terribly terribly tempting.

If you say that there could be a Borrim Hunter with a companion dog, one who has an above dog-average capacity for understanding and communication (without actually talking)...well....

[piosenniel]

Originally Posted by Fordy

If you say that there could be a Borrim Hunter with a companion dog, one who has an above dog-average capacity for understanding and communication (without actually talking)...well....

Nothing like read a post too quickly . . . I thought for a moment you wanted to play a Borrim Hunter with an above dog-average capacity for understanding and communication. And that perhaps he was the strong, silent type - with regard to the '(without actually talking)" part.

Upon re-reading I understand you meant the dog . . .

~*~ Pio


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Fordim and Kath - I've put you both on the list to post to this thread.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Naria

Ang, if this is the case, what purpose is there to have female players in this rpg?

I'm going to be extremely nit-picky and point out first that the fact that the player is female does not mean the character has to be. I play more male characters than female ones, and I am undoubtedly female. Though I expect that's not precisely what you meant.

I'd also like to point out what Ang has been saying about the focus of this game. It's not on the action. It's not on any particular actiony action. It's focused on everyday life for the Ulfings as such dark things work both within and around them (I mean really dark...we're talking about Melkor here), things that are out of their control. So, the main focus is essentially at the home. And if you think this sounds boring to roleplay, well...I think you're missing out!

Sorry for stepping in. Listen to Ang...I just like to act like I know what I'm doing.

Fordim -

Yes....join us...it is...necessary...what you...desire... *attempts to Jedi mind trick you*