Experimental Planning Thread: The Princess Guard

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

I think the 'double agent' would not want to tell everyone, she would probably go to Finduilas and tell her. Then Finduilas would have to go to Denethor, and perhaps we can have another sort of conflict there. Perhaps Denethor was friends with one of the men, and refuses to believe that he would have anything to do with the thing!

Whatever we do with Denethor, we have to make sure that we don't create too much conflict between him and Finduilas. He's supposed to love her more than anything (except perhaps Boromir). So we can't mess around with the functioning of their relationship too much. Question, however on that subject. Does she love him? How does she feel about the marriage? Is it arranged?

3) Groups A and B still spread rumours to Group C about a possible attack on the Corsair fleet, and “evil chick” still sends a messenger to tell the Corsairs what she knows. The party that evening is the ideal time for Finduilas’ speech, and “evil chick” realises that she has been fooled by Groups A and B and flees – she can’t go back to the Corsairs after giving them wrong information, but she can’t stay in the court. Denethor could then find out – the proof is there, as “evil chick” has gone, showing her disloyalty.

So, the game could end when “evil chick” (she really needs a name ) has left the court and Denethor is told and takes action.

I really like this idea (especially Finduilas' speech! Go Maika!) except Tolkien tells us that at no point does Denethor ever agree to take action against the corsairs. His father Ecthelion does it four years after Finduilas' arrival at court. So unless we want the game to cover a time period of four years, there isn't going to be any destroying of corsairs. And whatever's revealed needs to be revealed to Ecthelion instead of Denethor, because if Denethor knows all this stuff that Finduilas is supposed to know, and still opposes attacking the corsairs it makes him more than negligent to the safety of Gondor. We don't want him to come out looking like the bad guy.

Revised ending 3

The rumours are spread, Evil lady sends her message to the corsairs, who believe that Ecthelion is coming to attack their fleet. Finduilas gives a cleverly worded speech at the party informing Evil lady that she's been found out. Evil lady flees, Finduilas goes to Ecthelion and tells him all. Ecthelion begins planning a massive campaign (that will come four years later?) to eliminate corsairs.

Cami- When does Aragorn/Thorongil first come to Gondor? Would Ecthelion have him around to plan the attack with at this point?

lol... ideas ideas!

Sophia

[Manardariel]

OOOH, I just love your ideas! Go maika! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Revised Ending 3

The rumours are spread, Evil lady sends her message to the corsairs, who believe that Ecthelion is coming to attack their fleet. Finduilas gives a cleverly worded speech at the party informing Evil lady that she's been found out. Evil lady flees, tells the corsairs what happened, who kill her for cheating on them, but retreat to Harad. Fiduilas informs Ecthelion who -after hearing of the corsairs´ retreat- starts planning a campaign to eliminate said corsairs.

Does that make any sense?

Question, however on that subject. Does she love him? How does she feel about the marriage? Is it arranged?

I think we shouldn´t put another confict in there, with unhappy marriaged. Though the marriage most probably was arranged, Denethor loved his wife, so let´s just have her love him back, kay?

[Lyra Greenleaf]

|If it was arranged then it most likely wouldn't be love at first sight. It could be, but not necessarily. In that case it would probably explain why she didn't tell him. Maybe they were still feeling each other out? Maybe she really liked her father in law (does Tolkien tell us this?)

[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: Lyra Greenleaf ]

[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: Lyra Greenleaf ]

[maikafanawen]

Manardariel: I don't think the Evil woman should die. I think she should just flee to wherever and not go back to the corsairs. Perhaps the rest of Group C could go back to the corsairs and tell what she did and themselves beg for mercy, but it would be sort of interesting and mysterious if the Evil woman lived I think. Because any reader could guess that she would die, but it works better for the plot and for other options if she lives.

I agree that it should end with Ecthelion beginning the plans for an attack on Umbar. That way the clear cut ending would be Groups A and B becoming friends and revealing Group C's identity -- and clearing the name of the double agent who might have to go into hiding but who knows. Then Ecthelion tells Finduilas that he's going to start the plans.

The last little event could be the wedding. Or would Denethor and Finduilas get married before all this hubbub started? I think the wedding should be after everything--that's my 2 cents.

And I also think that Finduilas should fall in love with Denethor--we already have a pretty intricate plot.

-Maikafanawen

[Manardariel]

I´d also go with before the wedding. Wedding preperations are a brilliant cover for the groups´ meetings. Hmm... and I think you have a point with the "mysteriousness" of having the ECL (evil chick/lady) live.. so yeah, that´s cool. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Just throwing in my 2 cents...

Fiduilas informs Ecthelion who -after hearing of the corsairs´ retreat- starts planning a campaign to eliminate said corsairs.

Yes, but make it very clear that the preparations will take some time. Perhaps it will take some initial spy work on the part of Gondor (perhaps by Aragorn himself?) before they mount the attack. That would explain the 4-year delay.

Also, with the survival of the evil lady and the necessity of a spying campaign, I can already smell a sequel to this story!

Sophia - Regarding the time frame for Aragorn, the chronology says he worked for both Thengal of Rohan and Ecthelion II of Gondor from 2957 until the victory over the Corsairs in 2980. So there's plenty of time.

Also, I agree that Finduilas should love her husband. Otherwise things become too complicated. And ending with the wedding is good, nice and clear cut.

I do have one question:

I really like this idea (especially Finduilas' speech! Go Maika!) except Tolkien tells us that at no point does Denethor ever agree to take action against the corsairs. His father Ecthelion does it four years after Finduilas' arrival at court. So unless we want the game to cover a time period of four years, there isn't going to be any destroying of corsairs. And whatever's revealed needs to be revealed to Ecthelion instead of Denethor, because if Denethor knows all this stuff that Finduilas is supposed to know, and still opposes attacking the corsairs it makes him more than negligent to the safety of Gondor. We don't want him to come out looking like the bad guy.

Why doesn't either Finduilas or Ecthelion eventually tell Denethor what happened? Perhaps they do...

Tolkien never specifically says that Denethor disapproved of the attack on the Corsairs in 2980. Only that he disliked Gandalf and Thorongil. Tolkien says perhaps Denethor discovered who Throngil really was, and suspected Gandalf of working to supplant the Stewards and bring in Aragorn as king.

Perhaps Denethor knew of the spying and later preparations, but still remained distrustful of the particular policy because Aragorn himself recommended and supported it?

Any ideas? I think you've got to tie up this end one way or another.

*********************************************

Runs off to get other hat as a Shire Mod.........

Manardariel ,

I think we need to go with the planners that have applied up till now and cut off the list, since you are now far advanced in your planning of the plot.

Also, in the proposal itself, in the historical background section, you will need a note telling all posters to read this in LotR----the chronology in Appendix B that runs from 2950 through 2988 (just a half page), plus the two pages in Appendix A under part iv, just before the section on Aragorn and Arwen that deals with the history of Ecthelion and Denethor (just two pages).

[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Also, I agree that Finduilas should love her husband. Otherwise things become too complicated.

This is what I thought too, just wanted to see what everyone else thought of it.

If we're cutting off planners now, does that mean that we have the full cast of players now as well? Or will there be spaces for more players (like males playing women [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]) when the game opens?

Sophia

[Child of the 7th Age]

I haven't discussed this with Manardariel, but there are issues involved here that go beyond this specific game to get into questions of Shire guidelines and the Red Book. For that reason, I've written a note to Pio to clarify certain things.

In my mind, there is a clear distinction between planners and players. That means there will be people playing in the game who did not participate in the initial planning. These people will sign up when the discussion thread goes up. And I would definitely like to encourage males to apply for female roles. That could be done by notices in the Inn, and by pms to likely male suspects.

I have a note in to Piosenniel to clarify one thing--whether those planners on this thread who want to play should turn in their profiles and posts with the proposal itself, or whether they should wait till the regular sign-up process on the discussion thread. I'll get back to you on this as soon as I hear from Pio.

Meanwhile, you might want to go ahead with some other things. For example, you need a specific list of proposed characters. Some people have made suggestions in the thread for particular characters in the story. Maybe you'd want to go back through the thread and compile a list of those names with the poster listed beside the character.

Then, let the poster say whether or not she would like to play that particular character in the story. In fact, any one who has helped in the planning could at least give an indication of the particular group they want to be part of ---A, B, or C, or wherever the need is greatest.

Then you'll need to look at that list, and see how many others you'll be needing in each group. These would be the regular players who will sign up with the discussion thread. I definitely want some spaces available for Shirelings who aren't part of this discussion, since the Shire does not have fully "invitational" games except those started by the Mods with a specific purpose in mind.

Do you need any male characters at all? Denethor, Ecthelion, some distant Crosair leader? Or will those be played 'indirectly' by the women? Or will there be no direct scenes with males, only indirect ones that are shown through the minds of the women?

Cami

[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Manardariel]

Players and Charcaters Issue

I´m not sure how we´re going to resolve that problem. Because we have 11 people who expressed interest, though up to now not all of them really contributed much. We could maybe say that if there´s any intrests in playing a specific role(like maybe someone is desperate to play ECL) they should express that here. When we open the discussion thread, we´ll only exept characters not taken yet by planners. I think that´s only fair to the planners, because they already contributed something to the RPG before it even started, so I would find it unfair if people that planned didn´t get a chance to play. Of course, planners that don´t want to play don´t have to!

Like I said, I think that´s fairest. If any planners have someone in mind who they´d like to play, they can say so now. In that case, we´ll give the people that thought up the characters the stage first. Then we open the discussion for everyone, and those planners who didn´t have a specific person in mind can post as well as the others.

Next, Characters. Here´s a rough draft for the characters we´ll need:

GROUP A
Finduilas
Old Maid
Various Ladies and Maids(about 3-5)

GROUP B
various Maids from Minas Tirith (about 3-5)

GROUP C
ECL
her sister (the double agent)
her mother
(second wife)

I´m not sure if a Denethor/Ecthelion is really necesarry. I mean, most of the game is "behind the scenes". And I don´t think we´ll need the corsairs either.

[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: Manardariel ]

[alaklondewen]

Hello! I was accepted by Manardariel and then confirmed by Cami through PMs, and I would like to thank both of them for the opportunity. I am currently playing in Sailing Away and another ME related RPG on another site.

I think the plot so far will be interesting. However, I noticed not much as been said about specific events taking place at the party besides Finduilas' speech. I like the idea of the women spying during the party, so what if they are suspicious of group C before the party, but finally get solid proof (through ECL's sister, maybe) right before Finduilas' speech.

It would allow for some interesting interactions for the ladies of groups A and B.

Well, that's what caught my eye when reading, and I hope I can contribute more as we go.

[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: alaklondewen ]

[*Varda*]

I should think Denethor and Ecthelion could just be worked into the posts themselves, as it seems most of the game takes place between the women – is it really necessary to have someone else playing them, when they would only be in a couple of posts? Although, if someone doesn’t have time to be in the whole game, but would like a minor part, I don’t see why not.

Yes, Finduilas should love Denethor – I think if we have to straighten out marriage difficulties as well, it could get difficult. At worst, she’d have a case of nerves right before the wedding.

Tying up the Denethor end – I do think Denethor has to know about what was going on at the end – otherwise it doesn’t really say much for the future Steward if his wife and father don’t tell him there were spies in the court. It probably doesn’t have to be a big issue – maybe just an indication of his distrust of Thorongil. So at the end, Denethor has been informed of Ecthelion’s plans for the Corsairs, and that Thorongil will help. The fact that Denethor’s a little less than pleased that Thorongil’s help is being sought with also set the scene for a sequel, maybe.

[Manardariel]

Yeah, Denethor should have a clue- after the party, mind you. Maybe he goes up to Finduilas after her speech and is like "What was THAT??" and she tells him and Ecthelion. Ecthelion runs off to plan a campaign and Denethor, for now, is proud of his wife. The last posts will cover the wedding, and the very last one could be one of the ladies hearing Ecthelion tell Denethor WHO´s going to work out the plan attaking the corsairs. The lady could go "Well that should prove intresting..." to herself. End of game. How does that sound??

[Lyra Greenleaf]

Perhaps I've been watching too many films- Man in the Iron Mas- but masked balls always seem to be a good way to get things done in secret! (Or is it just not Tolkien? He never said there weren't any masked balls- did he?)

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Lyra Greenleaf ]

[*Varda*]

A masked ball could be interesting…do you think Tolkien would really mind? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] It would make for an interesting party before the wedding – maybe Groups A and B aren’t entirely convinced that the double agent is telling the whole truth, and use the masked party to try and get some proof out of ECL, since ECL wouldn’t realie it was really Finduilas or one of her maids. Maybe a little complicated, or unnecessary detail, but it’s an idea.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Manardaril and crew,

Some clarification on the issue of posts and profiles.

I've spoken with Pio, and this is what we're going to run with. This accords with Shire policy and meets the concerns Manaradariel had. It will require some work on the part of the planners, but that's what we're here for! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

BTW, regarding the list of characters you've developed, I prefer you go with the figure 5 rather than 3 for the ones you'd listed as "3-5". We want to make sure to have at least some spots open for Shirelings to sign up later on the discussion thread. Also, since it's the summer, you're bound to have some people away for vacation and such, so a bigger crew is a good idea.

First, every planner who wants to play needs to tell that to the founders, and must also stipulate what character she wants to portray. Presumably you will do that on this thread. If there are conflicts over specific characters, you will have to work that out between yourselves with the help of the game founders.

BTW, if you're going to be away for big chunks of the summer, please don't sign up for a character who must be there every day for the full duration of the RPG. Instead opt for one of the more general ladies or maids in groups A and B, since there's more flexibility.

Secondly, when the proposal comes in, it must have the following appended: profiles and first posts from the three game founders (Sophie, Nuru, Manardariel), plus the complete list of planners' names with the characters they intend to play, and the specific spots that are still open for general sign-up on the discussion thread.

The other planners must submit their profiles and posts as soon as possible after the game proposal goes in. There will be a set day for the discussion thread to open. All the planners must get their profiles and posts to Pio before that date. If not, they lose their early sign-up and must take their chances with all the Shrirelings who sign up on the discussion thread.

I'd like to make a suggestion here. I would hate to see any of the planners lose their chance for early sign-up by missing the final deadline, since many of you have put work into this. Manardariel, Sophia, Nuru ---as game founders, you have the right to lay down whatever rules or guidelines you care to (at least reasonable ones!). You could ask that, once the list is decided on, everyone do their profiles and first posts on this thread, and then you could submit them with the game proposal.

Normally, I wouldn't be so nervous about this. However, with the recent concerns about bandwidth, we are understandably limited in the number of new games that will go up. The Shire is a heavy bandwidth user. Because of this, a new game can't go up until an old one ends. In the summer, there may be many people trying to get into a limited number of games. So, if I was a planner, I would definitely want to include my profile and first post with the game proposal. That way there won't be any missed deadlines.

You folk can work this out, but please let me know....

Also, Sophia, Nuru, and Manardariel, I'll be sending you a pm in the next few hours to clarify your duties as game founders.

Cami

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Manardariel]

OK Cami, got that. So, everybody: if you already have an idea who (or what kind of character) you´d like to play do so as soon we´re working on the worksheet. Please already include some sort of character description. I´m looking for something like:
*I´d like to play a maid from Group A who´s a bit too outgoing, even blunt.
or
*I´m interested in playing the double-agent. I was thinking of making her shy, and a bit dependant of her sister ECL.

********************************

Now. *runs over to get checklist* This is the questions we got from Cami in the beginning and part of the Shire Worksheet

1. Game will take place BEFORE the wedding. We decided this... right?

2.Clear cut ending: The wedding. By then ECL and her mom will be found out. Got that.

3. Conflict men vs. women: No. We decided against this. Instead, we have a confict between three groups of women

4. Crisis in Gondor: No, but two spies
and their wives/daughters

5. Finduilas´ infuence on Corsairs attack: Sort of. Finding out the spies, she proves that the corsairs ARE a peril, and Ecthelion starts planning a campaign

6.Network of Women Spies: Ohh yes. You bet... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

New Plotline: Finduilas of Dol Amroth and a group of her ladies have just arrived in Minas Tirith, where Finduilas is about to marry Denethor. There, they are greeted with some repudiation by the local ladies, and with ador by a group of three women and their husbands/father. These people call themselves "Friends from Dol Amroth". The ladies are suspcious, as they don´t know said Friends, and start investigating. It turns out the "Friends" are really spies of the corsairs, and the it´s the ladies job to stop them.
***********************************

Another Question:
We´re going to start in Minas Tirith, right? The original idea was to start in Dol amroth, but that just takes time and makes no sense, huh?

Wow, we´re pretty far! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

I personally feel Minas Tirith would be a good choice. In order to do the game in 8-10 weeks, you'll need to focus on what's really important.

Could the first scene be Finduilas' introduction to the court, after her arrival from Dol Amroth, with each of the characters watching her carefully and revealing their feelings about the situation?

Some of these posts could relate to their disappointment at seeing a "foreigner" come in. Others could concern personal things (e.g., the nurse's reservations on how Finduilas is now a full-grown woman) or the expectations of Finduilas' ladies and maids in hoping that things will go well for them in a new city.

This would be a clear cut way to start things out, and easy for people to compose a first post. Everyone would just need to keep in mind what their characters actually do and don't know about what's taking place.

One question: Will the spies be revealing who they are to the reader of the RPG, or will they keep these thoughts hidden away even from the reader until a certain point in the game??

Cami

[Manardariel]

That´s a great idea, Cami! Thanks!

Hmmm. I´m thinking about the spies being revealed to the reader... of course, it would be much more interesting if not, but also much harder to play. I suppose whoever´s play her would have to do always write "she" or "the woman" instead of a name... on the other hand, as ECL interacts with the other players, it´d be hard to do that. That´s the only way I can think of. If you have any other ideas, that´s fine though!

[alaklondewen]

One question: Will the spies be revealing who they are to the reader of the RPG, or will they keep these thoughts hidden away even from the reader until a certain point in the game??

I really like the latter idea. The reader should be suspicious of group C's manipulativeness, but not know who they are until further in the game. I think it would be more interesting for the reader to watch the spying and such without knowing all the answers.

I suppose whoever´s play her would have to do always write "she" or "the woman" instead of a name...

I'm not sure if that would be necessary. Do you think the reader could see their names, but not know exactly where they are from and what they are doing?

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: alaklondewen ]

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Yeah, Denethor should have a clue- after the party, mind you. Maybe he goes up to Finduilas after her speech and is like "What was THAT??" and she tells him and Ecthelion. Ecthelion runs off to plan a campaign and Denethor, for now, is proud of his wife. The last posts will cover the wedding, and the very last one could be one of the ladies hearing Ecthelion tell Denethor WHO´s going to work out the plan attaking the corsairs. The lady could go "Well that should prove intresting..." to herself. End of game. How does that sound??

This is great, Manardariel, perfect way for Denethor to still be informed, to keep things nice between him and Finduilas, but still leave room for Denethor's later conflict with Thorongil.

Cami- I'm still not quite clear on whether Thorongil would be kicking around the court at this time for Finduilas and the other ladies of all groups to comment on, or would he be somewhere else at this time? For the women to really know about T. and D.'s "conflict" he'd have to be around wouldn't he?

A masked ball could be interesting…do you think Tolkien would really mind? It would make for an interesting party before the wedding – maybe Groups A and B aren’t entirely convinced that the double agent is telling the whole truth, and use the masked party to try and get some proof out of ECL, since ECL wouldn’t realie it was really Finduilas or one of her maids. Maybe a little complicated, or unnecessary detail, but it’s an idea.

I love the idea of a masked ball. I don't know how plausible or Tolkien-true it is either, but my first thoughts were on the Scarlet Pimpenel, another excellent masked ball scene. I'd *love* to see this work out.

One question: Will the spies be revealing who they are to the reader of the RPG, or will they keep these thoughts hidden away even from the reader until a certain point in the game??
**************************

I really like the latter idea. The reader should be suspicious of group C's manipulativeness, but not know who they are until further in the game. I think it would be more interesting for the reader to watch the spying and such without knowing all the answers.

I suppose this could be done in two ways, if we needed to know that spying was being done, but not who was doing it, it would be very difficult, as Manardariel suggested, because "the woman" would have to remain unnamed so that nobody would know who she was, but then when it came to interacting with the other characters you still couldn't use her name, or the reader would know that she was the spy, because of who played her.

The other way it could be done is Alak's suggestion, that nobody knows anyone is spying at all until later in the game. I suppose that could work, but I think it would be more interesting to show the spying as it takes place. I think my vote is for the reader to know about ECL from the beginning, or at least very early in the game.

Cami, I'll be checking my pms [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Sophia

[alaklondewen]

I'm sorry...I've been misunderstood a little, maybe I should have said it a different way.

When I said that the reader could see the spying without knowing the answers, I meant the spying done by groups A and B, not by group C. It would be similar to a mystery where you know who is acting suspicious, but you don't know the exact details of what they have done.

Sorry for the confusion, I hope this makes more sense.

[Manardariel]

If I got you right, you mean the reader sees everything through group A&B´s POV. In that case, we couldn´t use the POV of group C, which would basically mean we couldn´t have anyone play them, riiight? I don´t think that´s a good idea, but if I mizunderstood you, just tell me, ok?

Cami- I'm still not quite clear on whether Thorongil would be kicking around the court at this time for Finduilas and the other ladies of all groups to comment on, or would he be somewhere else at this time? For the women to really know about T. and D.'s "conflict" he'd have to be around wouldn't he?

I guess he wasn´t around all the time, maybe only during occasional visits, and I guess he was invited to the wedding.... but Cami can help you out on that one!

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Manardariel ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

"Was Throngil kicking around the court?"

Cami can help you out on that one." ot exactly because I'm not sure!

Hmm, I always had the impression he did not set foot in Minis Tirith at this time, but stayed down in Pelargir and places like that. I know that, after the victory against Minis Tirith in 2980, he disappeared rather than coming back to Minis Tirith and gaining the honor he deserved.

I am not 100% sure. But it seemed from things said in LotR that Aragorn had not been in Minis Tirith for a very long time. But just how long I'm not sure. Does anyone here know more about this? Maybe someone should raise this question in Books.

However, even if he wasn't physically at court, I think people would have heard of him in policy discussions and such. Remember that he was also working for the King of Rohan. And, if Denethor, didn't like Aragorn, that word could have gotten around.

Cami

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[alaklondewen]

If I got you right, you mean the reader sees everything through group A&B´s POV. In that case, we couldn´t use the POV of group C, which would basically mean we couldn´t have anyone play them, riiight? I don´t think that´s a good idea, but if I mizunderstood you, just tell me, ok?

Oh no! I think both point of views should be played and shown, however group C doesn't necessarily need to say, "hey, we work for the Corsairs!" They could play their parts as power hungry and manipulative and never mention who they are working for (until later of course, I'm just talking about he beginning).

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

However, even if he wasn't physically at court, I think people would have heard of him in policy discussions and such. Remember that he was also working for the King of Rohan. And, if Denethor, didn't like Aragorn, that word could have gotten around.

Aah, that works. Even if he wasn't exactly known per se, at least they'd have heard of him. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Drat, probably means there aren't any fair ladies of Minas Tirith who are swooning over the mysterious Thorongil then...

I might actually stick that question in the Books section, simply to get an answer though. Thanks Cami.

Sophia

[Durelin]

Sorry I haven't helped a lot, I tried, but...

Are you sure the women of Minas Tirith should be almost spiteful? Then we've almost have more antagonists...right? Wouldn't it be smoother if the Minas Tirith women helped in some way? Or, we could make it real interesting be having the women with Finduilas working to uncover these spies, and the Minas Tirith women are also? Perhaps then the Minas Tirith women could suspect the women with Finduilas as spies? And then we have a whole ton of interesting twists. Perhaps the reasons the Minas Tirith women could think that Finduilas's people are spies is because of rumors from the bad people (like you already talked about) and also from the way the 'Group A' is acting, trying to find the spies... So, really it's the same thing as everyone had planned out so far, except that the Minas Tirith women are attempting to do the same thing as Group A, but are on the wrong track.

Well, kinda went in a big circle there, and I kept switching around what I called all the groups, but...hmmmm...I didn't really contribute much. Sorry, mesa trying! [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Manardariel]

Oh no! I think both point of views should be played and shown, however group C doesn't necessarily need to say, "hey, we work for the Corsairs!" They could play their parts as power hungry and manipulative and never mention who they are working for (until later of course, I'm just talking about he beginning).

That makes sense! Actually, that´s really cool! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I declare this as decided. Does anyone object? (Note to self: stop watching Judge Judy and Ally McBeal [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img])

Drat, probably means there aren't any fair ladies of Minas Tirith who are swooning over the mysterious Thorongil then...

aww, that´s too bad. But it gives food to rumors, rumors, glorious romurs! "Have you heard of that Thorongil? He´s said to be very handsome..." "Some people think he´s an elf who´s come to help us." That should be fun! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

edit: Durelin, I like the idea of group B thinking group A are spies... that should be intresting! We should have them combine somewhere in the middle though, maybe with group B accusing group A, who natrually just starts laughing... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Dudess, I like that one. Only maybe it´s to complicated?

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Manardariel ]

[Durelin]

Yes, it is quite complicated, though I think it could be pulled off. That is, if we are all smart people here...which we are, of course. Yes, of course. *cough* [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

But seriously, now that I really think about it...RPGs certainly have limitations...basically on how much the human brain can handle! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] But, it really could be hilarious if we had the masked ball, and Group A was poking around Group C, and Group B sees them and starts poking around Group A...that could be funny, but the reason it would be is because of the chaos. Chaos is hard to RP...

We could have Group A and B combine forces, but each possibly working toward a different end? Maybe they both want to eradicate the baddies, but Group A wants the wedding, and perhaps Group B doesn't because they want Denethor to marry someone of Minas Tirith, so that Minas Tirith is ruled by people of Minas Tirith and Minas Tirith only. Maybe each tries to use the other, but in the end...either Group B comes to like Finduilas, or Group A succeeds in one way or another.

Hmmmmmmm...planning might prove to be the most complicated...

[Manardariel]

No, no, no STOP! I like the idea about A and B misunderstning each other untill some point, but there´s no need to exaggerate. Here´s an idea.

How to bring some Chaos in an RPG
At first group B thinks group A are spies and group C just a nuisance. They start spying around, and somewhere during the maskball (this is not the Finduilas speach party, right? I´m a bit confused) B confronts A, who just go wild with amusement. They have a serious talk, and then combine forces to let C be overthrown. B accepts the fact that the marriage is inevitable and work with A.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

How to bring some Chaos in an RPG
At first group B thinks group A are spies and group C just a nuisance. They start spying around, and somewhere during the maskball (this is not the Finduilas speach party, right? I´m a bit confused) B confronts A, who just go wild with amusement. They have a serious talk, and then combine forces to let C be overthrown. B accepts the fact that the marriage is inevitable and work with A.

I like this. I think we can definately handle two parties in one RPG, and I also think it offers the most plausible idea of how group B eventually warms up to group A. Plus it's fun and lighthearted to have B chasing the wrong "spies"; could be the source of lots of comical mixups (imagine the "suspicious" things they could overhear! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]).

Then Finduilas' speech party would be a non-mask party, as everyone would be wanting to "formally" meet her then anyway, so it would help to have her face uncovered. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I like, I like!

Sophia

[Lyra Greenleaf]

When will the game start, do you think? I really want to get involved but I'll be away for two weeks at the end of july/beginning of august.

[Durelin]

Okay, I'll stop. So, you seriously took my idea! AWESOME!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] This is going to be fun... You know, I already have begun my bio, and I'm having lots of fun with it! Is it too early for you to receive bios? Because I hope to finish mine quite soon, expecially since we're so deep into the planning...yes...deep. I was thinking I'd play a woman of Minas Tirith. So...what status would these women be? Maids? Ladies? Ladies in waiting? Could the head cook even be involved?

[maikafanawen]

Wow! We are really far along! This is very exciting.

The masked ball—masquerade—is a brilliant idea, and it wouldn’t be the same party dedicated to Finduilas—obviously. You guys are so clever.

I have a question about the character cast for Group C...Who is “her mother”. I thought that ECL was the one who was trying to marry Denethor. I don’t think ECL should be the family. In my opinion, I think that ECL should have two other people behind her—ladies in waiting—and then her sister. Is there a certain reason you wanted her mother there or—I’m just wondering.

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I am interested though in playing ECL--the head Corsairess. I think that it would be interesting if she was evil--but not enitrely aware of it. Has anyone read Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham? I'd like her to be sort of like Garnet/Iriador. She believes that the corsairs have been robbed of what is rightfully theirs and simply wants it back. However, ECL goes about this completely the wrong way by manipulating people and trying to overthrow Finduilas and claim Minas Tirith for herself, all the while thinking she's just being noble. About 1/3 to 2/3 of the way through however she just becomes greedy and starts being a tad more careless and vengeful, enabling Groups A and B to catch on to her and her posse.

Another question, by the way, what does Group C do that makes Groups A & B start to suspect them?

In order for ECL to attain her position as the head corsairess she would have to be fair and honey-tongued as well as a developed spy. ECL would most probably have been trained in the arts of observation, stealth, and deception in order for her to be the one sent for this job. Also this would make it sensible for her sister (double agent) to have had the same training and is therefore almost as equally advanced--just younger and perhaps less fair--though pure of heart.

I'll also have access to a computer for the entire summer.

-Maikafanawen

[alaklondewen]

Another question, by the way, what does Group C do that makes Groups A & B start to suspect them?

I believe the initial suspicion will come from Group C calling themselves "Friends from Dol Amroth". Since Group A is from Dol Amroth, their not knowing the "friends" will be enough to spark some suspicion.

[*Varda*]

Oh, this is just getting better and better! I love the idea of Group B suspecting Group A - it could just be so funny! – However, what have Group A done to be suspected? Did Group B overhear something Group C said, and mistake it for something Group A said, or is it just because Group A are the newcomers to the court?

Incidentally, I’m quite interested in playing of the maids for Group B. Shy, quiet, follows what everyone else says, mainly. Still working on her character, though.

[ May 26, 2003: Message edited by: *Varda* ]

[Manardariel]

You name it, alak!

MaikaI love your character idea! Ok, about ECL, we originally thought she was one of the "Friends" daughter. Her mother was probably once what ECL is today -head spy of the corsairs- only ECL is actively trying to overthrow Denethor while her mom tried to undermine it. She was the one who taught her two daughters spying and all that. I personally think this would suppost your character idea, because ECL also grew up while hearing "corsairs are good, stewards are bad". Hope that cleared some confusion!

Durelin, and everyone else

Ranks possible to play in group A
Ladies in Waiting
Maids
Scolar (??)
Old Maid

Ranks possible in group B
Maids
Ladies (wives of the court VIPs)
Young aristocratic Ladies sent to court for education
The Head Cook! (I love this one! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img])

Lyra, and everyone else
If we get the worksheet done sometime soon, we should be able to start playing in mid-June.

[Manardariel]

First (rough) draft for Shire worksheet

Title: The Princess Guard (I don´t like this title... ideas?)

Basic Storyline:
Finduilas of Dol Amroth and a group of her ladies have just arrived in Minas Tirith, where Finduilas is about to marry Denethor. There, they are greeted with some repudiation by the local ladies, and with ador by a group of three women. These people call themselves "Friends from Dol Amroth". The ladies are suspcious, as they don´t know said Friends, and start investigating. It turns out the "Friends" are really spies of the corsairs, and the it´s the ladies job to stop them.

The purpose of the story is to: celebrate the weddding and uncover the spies

This means we will know the story is over when: The weddding is celebrated and the spies are uncovered

Historical Backround: (thanks Cami! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img])

Ecthelion II was the son of Steward Turgon, and was a wise and foresightful Man. He put his efforts into strengthening his realm against the approaching danger of Sauron, who had openly revealed himself in the last years of Turgon's Stewardship. He was aided in this work by Gandalf, and by a mysterious stranger named 'Thorongil', who was later known to be none other than Aragorn. It was Throngil who constantly urged Ecthelion to take a stand against the rebels in Umbar. In 2980, just four years after this story takes place, Thorongil finally got permission from the Steward to go ahead and destroyed most of the Corsair ships with little loss of life. After this Aragorn disappeared, never having set foot in Minis Tirith.

Tolkien implies that Ecthelion's son Denethor viewed Thorongil as his rival and was pleased to see him leave. Moreover, Denethor had a much more negative attitude towards Gandalf. It is said that, even before becoming steward, Denethor learned of Gandalf's plans to restore the Heir of Isildur to the throne, and this accounts for his lifelong distrust of both the wizard and Aragorn.

In 2984, Ecthelion died and was succeeded as Steward by Denthor, who ruled Gondor at the time of the War of the Ring. Denethor's later history and eventual suicide is well known from the LotR.

Finduilas of Dol Amroth was born in 2950 TA, and married Denethor in 2976, the year this game takes place. She was a lady of great beauty and gentle heart who died when she will still young, just twelve years after her marriage. She was the mother of Boromir and Farimir, characters well known to us from LotR. Tolkien states the following:

Denethor loved her, in his fashion, more dearly than any other, unless it was the elder of the sons that she bore him. But it seemed to men that she withered in the guarded city, as a flower of the seaward vales set upon a barren rock. The shadow in the east filled her with horror, and she turned her eyes ever south to the seas that she missed.

With her passing in 2988, Denethor became increasingly depressed and withdrawn

Startintg Location: Citadel of Mins Tirith

Likely destination: Citadel of Minas Tirith

Timeframes:

This game takes place in the third Age at around year 2976

The storyline itself or plot covers six to eight??? weeks.

This game requires a time commitment of about two months (a bit more?) from me, the game owner and from the major players.

Characters: – be specific as to type:

Main character types are: ONLY FEMALE!

Finduilas´ Group (GROUP A)
Ladies-in-waiting
Maids
Old Maid
Scolar (??)

Minas Tirith Group (Group B)
Maids
Servants
Wives/daughters of the court VIPs
Young aristocratic girls from the provinces, send to court to be educated

Evil Group (Group C)
ECL
her sister (the double agent)
her mother

Secondary character types likely are: Like the main characters, only they don´t appear that often

Character types which would not belong: GUYS, elves, hobbits, dwarves, ents....

So we still need
*A better title (I think...)
*A better idea how much time we need

That´s all! Wow! So I guess you can start submitting characters... and any critics are welcome. It was only a draft. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ May 26, 2003: Message edited by: Manardariel ]

[maikafanawen]

Oh yes, now I understand about her mother. Good idea. I think that there should be a few secondary characters--which whoever plays ECL, or the mother could play that are also maids of the Friends of Dol Amroth. I think they should be a bigger group and also be able to spy throughout the Citadel.

IDea #2: For other secondary characters--such as guys--each person who plays a wife or an auristocratic woman should also sort of implant a few noblemen throughout their posts so it is obvious that there are tons of guys still around the citadel even though they're not being played. I'm sure you've allready mentioned something on that line but just to make sure.

I am so excited for this RPG!! Planning it has been half the fun!!

-Maikafanawen

[Durelin]

Please can I be the head cook? I have the perfect character, and I want to wack people with my great wooden spoon of justice and hard work! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

But, anyway...I was thinking about the title, and...here's some ideas from me:

The Corset Underground (or The Petticoat Underground, but do they wear petticoats?)

The Furtive Friends of Dol Amroth

The Convoluted Wedding

Emissaries of Silk

I don't know, most were 'spur-of-the-moment' things...Oh, and about the time-span, I think that it would be best if we went with at least two months to play this game. We can really do a lot with it, and if Pio and Cami don't mind, it would be great if we could have time to do that 'lot'. And, if we finish early, it's all the better! What does everyone else think?

Glad to help!

*-Durelin-*(who now signs all of her posts for some reason...)

[Manardariel]

The corset underground

lol. I love this... brilliant, Durelin. Anyone diagree? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Durelin, I´m cool with the head cook. Confirmed. (Unless someone objects...)

Maika- "evil maids" are cool, but I´m not so sure if we shouldn´t leave the guys out of there... I mean, of course you can write stuff like "She met her husband", but I don´t think someone should PLAY that husband. Because afterall this is a "Women Only" RPG... so yeah, I don´t think so. That´s just my opinion though.

Cami or Pio- how long can Shire Gmes go?? I´d also go for 8 weeks, but I´m not sure if it´s allowed... clafirication, please? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

More Titeles (most of these suck)

• Much ador about a Wedding
• Lady Spies
• The Bride and the Spy
• Behind the Scenes
• The Three Parties

[ May 26, 2003: Message edited by: Manardariel ]