![]() |
![]() |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
![]() |
#41 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halls of Mandos
Posts: 332
![]() |
I don't believe that Saruman's taunt (regarding the "staffs of the Five Wizards") means that the staffs themselves are very powerful. He's referring to his self-deceit that Gandalf wants to rule everything, and be predominant over all, including the other Istari (he also mentions the Keys of Barad-dur, which would be symbolic of a victory over Sauron).
I think that Gandalf breaking his staff on the Bridge of Khazad-dum is symbolic of his sacrifice. By breaking the bridge, and the staff with it, he is dooming both himself and the Balrog to death, assuring that the rest of the Company (and thus the Ring) will make it out of Moria. I think he knows before he breaks the bridge that he and the Balrog will both die, and he accepts it so that the cause of the Free Peoples will survive. As a result, he is rewarded by being allowed to return to Middle-earth with enhanced power, to lead the cause of the Free Peoples. That's my take on those two points of this truly fascinating discussion.
__________________
"If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#42 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
And so to have a broken staff would mean what? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#43 | |
Scent of Simbelmynë
|
![]()
I thought I would call attention to an interesting tidbit I ran across in the CbC forum which has relevance here:
Quote:
I thought it was far too relevant a fact not to be added to this discussion, but unfortunately, I can't take credit for noticing it myself. ![]() Sophia
__________________
The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me! Last edited by Sophia the Thunder Mistress; 02-04-2005 at 03:34 PM. Reason: tags and spacing and clarification. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#44 | |
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
Posts: 5,312
![]() ![]() |
![]()
I have had my say regarding staves in general, and I'm sticking to it.
![]() And, in regards to this: Quote:
Here's my view: Everything Gandalf did on that Bridge was just to scare ol' Roggie off. He could fight with it, yes, but he would lose time that he didn't have. But when the Balrog insisted on crossing the Bridge, he had to make sure it didn't reach the other end; ergo, the Bridge-breaking. I think the Balrog's whip getting him was just pure coincidence. Although a good coincidence at that.
__________________
フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#45 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
I think Gandalf planned to break the bridge from the beginning. What better way to cut off pursuit?
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#46 |
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
Posts: 5,312
![]() ![]() |
![]()
This Balrog ran away from Eönwë's buddies. It knows fear.
Maybe not from Gandy, but there's a chance . . .
__________________
フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#47 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
I did not say it did not know fear. I said it was not necessarily afraid at that moment.
Eönwë had a lot more guys with him too.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#48 |
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
Posts: 5,312
![]() ![]() |
![]()
But if Gandalf meant to break the Bridge all along, why the speech?
He was hoping to scare it off. Breaking the Bridge would take a lot from him.
__________________
フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#49 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
Such encounters may require the participants abide by the Marquis of Oiolossë Rules, which stipulate that formal introductions must precede the commencement of hostilities. The Balrog's failure to abide by these injunctions may have been part of the reason for his defeat. On a more serious note (if looked at from a certain perspective) Gandalf may have been stalling for time to gather energy for his blast (note all of his huffing and puffing about immediately prior to the incident).
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#50 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
![]() |
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#51 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
The Balrog complicated matters somewhat, but the same plan could work if Gandalf broke the Bridge, because wings or no, it seemed to me that the Balrog wasn't jumping the chasm. It might have been even more important to break the Bridge at that point as I'm not sure that the Balrog would have wilted in the daylight. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#52 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
I'm not entirely sure I follow. The sunlight would not have particularly damaged the Balrog very much, but he probably would not have liked it. However, I cannot imagine the Balrog leaving Moria for any reason whatsoever.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#53 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
![]() |
![]() Quote:
As a Maia, could he have sensed its presence? Assuming that he was independent of Sauron, the lure would have been great for him. A Balrog could go a long way with the One Ring. And if he was under Sauron's command, then he would almost certainly have been after it.
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#54 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
That sound you hear is the opening of a can o' worms...
While this issue may be deserving of its own thread (I'm not aware of a current one), in brief I will say I don't believe the Balrog would have left the nice, safe, dark underground because of the lure of the Ring. He could not have known of the existence of the Ring and so likely would not have understood its pull even if he felt it. He certainly does not strike me as the type to exert himself chasing after unnecessary trouble. The Ring itself would probably not want to advertise itself too loudly because its master was Sauron and not the Balrog and it would not welcome that situation. In other words, perhaps at that moment it was purposefully not exerting a pull. Unless you would want to suggest that the Watcher in the Water was the Balrog making an early snatch. (Did I say in brief?)
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#55 | |
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
Posts: 5,312
![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
Re worms: First of all, I don't think the Balrog was under any command. Like the dragons. Sauron can attempt to ally with it, but not command it. The Balrog could be after the Ring. It doesn't have to understand its pull to be drawn by it (like, as Kuru said, the Watcher did). Although the puzzle that is Gandalf would be a better reason. Who is this being mighty in magic that dares to come in my abode? the Balrog might be thinking ever since their powers met at the Chamber door. As for the Balrog and sunlight, well . . .
__________________
フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#56 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
And I think that it would have left Moria just to continue the battle with Gandalf. I know that it didn't appear after the battle of the burned Dwarves (sorry, can't remeber the name), but those were Dwarves and it was a bit before Sauron arose again in power. It may not have been subservient to Sauron, but I think that at the least the Balrog was in league with him. And I think that it says in the text that 'Sauron was putting out the call to all evil things.' Surely the Balrog would have responded in some fashion. And it's always been my assumption that the Balrog was in some part responsible for what happened on top of Caradhras. Last edited by alatar; 02-08-2005 at 10:00 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#57 | |||
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
Posts: 5,312
![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
|
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#58 | ||||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
(There is just something about Balrogs. Whenever they are mentioned in a thread they seem to inevitably come to dominate it.)
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#59 | ||
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Or the Balrog, as Lord of Moria, is torqued off at people trampling through his kingdom without paying the poll tax, and so we get the Balrog. Either way, what exactly is it about being outside the gates of Moria that would stop the Balrog's pursuit? We have already ruled out the environment. Could Gandalf et al stand outside the East-Gate and thumb their noses at the Balrog? Would it be merely content to drive them out? In my first example, if it was called in/alerted by Sauron, then it might realize that there may be some personal gain in destroying the Nine. If it were upset over the trespassing, might it not again attempt to extract a pound of flesh? And just how *do* you explain to your orc and troll groupies that nine good guys, including a dwarf and some midgets, just got away because they were 'one foot over the line?' Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#60 | |||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
I seriously doubt that. First of all, I don't believe that Sauron and the Balrog were in that kind of communication (let's just get that out of the way). However, assuming they were, how would Sauron communicate with the Balrog that quickly? Quote:
The Balrog was there to hide, not anything else. Quote:
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#61 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
![]() |
![]() Quote:
It is possible that he was simply woken up from his ugly sleep with a sore head and a bad attitude and just wanted to work out some of his aggression before returning to catch another forty million winks. But it is equally, if not more, possible that, once roused, a powerful being like him would have plans. And, if he did, those plans would surely extend beyond the realm of Moria. Never mind whether he had wings or not. The real question is whether he had hopes and dreams. What was his motivation? Why did he feel the need to pursue the Fellowship (to the Bridge at least). Why not just ignore this irksome intrusion and get back to his slumber? He must have sensed that there was an equal or greater power present when Gandalf brought the door down on him. Why risk a confrontation with such a being when (unlike the Dwarves that he had "dealt with" previously) the Fellowship was on its way out anyway, unless he had a particular reason for catching or preventing them? Perhaps it was just "evil instinct". Perhaps he was just following his prime directive to eliminate the good guys. But I suspect that there was more to it than that. I would still not rule out the lure of the Ring. It is possible that he would sense the presence of Sauron's evil will in the Ring, whether the Ring willed it or not. But why should the Ring not profit from finding its ways into a Balrog's hands (claws, talons, whatever)? Assuming that the Balrog did have some ambition, it could promise him many things - perhaps even dominion over Middle-earth. And it surely would not have been beyond the power of the Ring to trick him at an opportune moment, when it was in a position more easily to find its way back into his Master's hands. There are a number of examples of evil beings making straight for Frodo during the initial stages of the Fellowship's journey. The Watcher is one. The Orc Captain in the Chamber of Mazarbul is another. So, one way or another, it seems that evil things are drawn to the Ring, just as the Orcs who attacked Isildur at the Gladden Fields were (see footnote 20 to Disaster of The Gladden Fields). In that case, the Ring is portrayed as calling to them, even though they did not know of its presence. Admittedly, Orcs would be easier to manipulate than a Balrog with a sore head but, as I said, I don't think that it would have been beyond the wit of the Ring to find its way back to its Master via the Balrog.
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#62 | ||||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#63 | |||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
![]() |
![]() Quote:
![]() Quote:
![]() Quote:
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#64 |
Deadnight Chanter
|
legally...
twists and turns, eh?
Legally, Balrog was in the right - the Fellowship committed what any lawyer would have labeled 'breaking and trespassing'. Legal defence may have pointed out that Balrog was a squatter, occupying dwarven halls legal owners never put their claims down to, but, on the other hand, as the prosecution may have retorted, dwarves themselves were guilty of selfsame 'breaking and trespassing' in the first place, as they dug into Balrog's original habitat in the lower halls without any legal ground whatsoever. Accussed returned guilty, your honour! So, it is just as well M-E haven't got lawyers ![]()
__________________
Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! Last edited by HerenIstarion; 02-11-2005 at 08:22 AM. Reason: typo |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#65 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
![]() |
![]() Quote:
I think that the shadow and flame, not to mention the flaming sword and whip, may have been a little over the top. ![]()
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#66 | ||||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Nah. As far as the Ring was concerned Boromir was a chump. He would have been putty in the Ring's (metaphorical) hands. Quote:
![]() Unless the Dwarves could tunnel into the Timeless Halls in search of mithril, they could not reach the Balrog's original habitat.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#67 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
To bring the thread back to theme, I just want to note that Gandalf had to break his staff in order to counter the Balrog's 'preserve bridge' spell. Now that I've satisfied the legal requirement of staying on topic, here we go right back off.
In regards to my comment about the Balrog being 'called in,' a better explanation would be that it's noted somewhere in the books (is Gandalf telling this to Frodo?) that Sauron put out the call to all evil things and that's how Gollum (being even more susceptible) ends up in Mordor. I would then assume that the Balrog, being evil, at least got some kind of message, greeting card, etc, and so it knew that Sauron was back in business and was hiring. It would be complete speculation whether the Balrog submitted a resume or not ("...it says here that you worked for Morgoth before the First Age through the War of Wrath, are currently unemployed, good with a whip, know Words of Command..."). Also note that the Balrog's lack of verifiable employment kept him from obtaining a mortgage for Moria, which it had intended to buy and turn into a theme park. Somewhere else it's noted that if Smaug were still alive that Sauron would have used him in his multi-pronged attack/war. Luckily Gandalf met a Dwarf by the side of the road or something, and so put the kabosh on that. But it must be noted that Smaug would have been controlled by, or at least a willing partner in Sauron's plan. And Smaug just seems much smarter that the Balrog - is there even 'one' Balrog quote in all of Tolkien's works ("If I really had wings I'd fly up there and smite thee, Thorondor.")? And Dol Guldur is much closer to Moria than it is to Erebor, meaning cheaper postal rates. Now to add 2+2 to get 22. Smaug and the Balrog are both 'fire' creatures. Both are evil, have seen (and/or smelled) a Baggins, prefer to take very long naps underground in former Dwarven abodes (especially after having had less than amicable encounters with the same) in which mithril is present in some form, meet their demise through some action of the Grey Pilgrim, have wings...er, um, anyway... With this many identical characteristics, I would then argue that if Smaug were to be a 'Friend of Sauron,' then surely the Balrog was. Saruman, who we all agree does not have wings, was a FoS, and the closest that he came to being a fire creature was in the use of pipeweed. I rest my case before it becomes too ridiculous...too late. ![]() Last edited by alatar; 02-10-2005 at 08:43 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#68 | |||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
![]() |
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And who said that Dwarvish law is applicable? Balrogian legislation provides that possession is 100% of the law. ![]()
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! Last edited by The Saucepan Man; 02-10-2005 at 09:53 AM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#69 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Erebor
Posts: 49
![]() |
Alatar, so what you are saying is that Sauron was forming his very own Legion of Doom to counter the Fellowship's JLA.
So Sauron=Lex Luthor Balrog = Bizarro Smaug would have been Riddler? Saruman as Scarecrow A corrupted Radagast as Cheetah May he even could have pulled out a corrupted Alatar and Pallando to form some twisted WonderTwins knock-off ("Twin Wizards Powers Activate! Form of some Crappy wizards!!!") See now you don't seem so ridiculous ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#70 | ||||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
However, it is very curious that he did not seem to take part in the destruction of Balin's colony, or at least he is not mentioned. Probably all the thrashing about woke him up and he could not quite drift back to sleep (having rocks plopped on your head might have that effect). That might explain why he took such a personal hand in trying to rid himself of the Fellowship. He wanted some peace and quiet. It seems to take Balrogs a long time to settle down and fall asleep (about 20 years or so, you have to get the rocks underneath you just right). Note how the orcs fell perfectly silent when the Balrog entered. He had made it painfully evident to them what he wanted. Quote:
Quote:
(Here they come, I can see them now. Someone's going to mention them. The Twin Terrors of Balrog wings and Balrog size. It was inevitable.) Quote:
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#71 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
![]() |
![]() Quote:
Or ... are you saying that the Dwarves were Aule's eviction notices? ![]()
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#72 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
![]() |
another twist, I know, but seeing as I resurrected this thread I'm gonna give it a go.
Kuruharan Quote:
![]() I always get angry when someone says this. I know there are countless threads on this, but I can't let it stand. Q1. What was the Quest? A1. To defeat Sauron by destroying the Ring. Q2. Was the Ring destroyed? A2. Yes Q3. Was the Quest a success? A3. Yes Q4. Did Frodo, by his compassion for keeping Gollum alive, receive Redemption? A4. Yes Q5. Does it matter that Frodo did not actually throw the Ring in the Lava? A5. No Q6. Did Frodo Fail in the Quest to destroy the Ring A6. No. ... Sound of second can of worms opening on this thread. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#73 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
Essex, is there another thread in which you post what you think/feel in regards to Frodo 'failing?' If not, how do you reconcile his actions at the Crack (claiming and not actively destroying the Ring) and not having 'failed?'
Note that I don't have a pony in this race, but just thought to ask. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#74 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
Alright!! Rock on me!!! This has got to be some sort of new record. Not only have I managed to get the thread off the original subject, it has now wandered off the second subject, past the third, and has now discovered a fourth!
Gold star for me! Quote:
Note that soon after Gimli made this pronouncement at the Hornburg he moved into the place. Essex, I echo alatar's sentiments.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#75 |
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
Posts: 5,312
![]() ![]() |
![]()
I'm not commenting on an Ú-JLA, snorri.
![]() Seriously: the Dragon, yes, would have allied with Sauron. But the Balrog most probably wouldn't. It's more loyal to Morgoth, and Sauron abandoned Morgoth after his defeat at Tol-in-Gaurhoth. He's probably napping so when he comes to serve Sauron his dishonourable discharge, he'll be ready for anything, like Sauron's patented avoid-the-mailman manoeuvre.
__________________
フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#76 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
And if Sauron were to recover the One, would he then be able to control the Balrog? If so, wouldn't it have been better for the Balrog to be on the bandwagon a bit sooner, like Saruman? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#77 | |
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
Posts: 5,312
![]() ![]() |
![]()
The Balrog knows where his loyalties lie. And it's not in that upstart Gorthaur.
Quote:
__________________
フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#78 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
I would disagree regarding Gorthaur being an upstart as I thought he ran the show while Melkor lie in chains. This should have had some impression on the Balrog - the Boss picked him only to 'go fetch those Elfs' or 'cover my retreat,' never to run the store. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#79 | |
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
Posts: 5,312
![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
__________________
フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#80 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |