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#41 | |||
The Kinslayer
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Aiwendil I'm in favor of all of your emendations except for this one:
line 5: Quote:
Quote:
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
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#42 | |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,715
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Are you sure, Maédhros, that what you have writen was what you had in mind?
The text as it stands in your post makes the transition unbearable. That is at least how I feel about it. In that sens I found Aiwendils emendation much better. If you want to hold the last two lines together and let them both rever to the scene in Nevrast, you have to make a transtion earlier (in line 4). I would rather try to transit as late as possible, which means in line 6 since there a change of the scene is unavoidable. What is about this one: Quote:
Respectfully Findegil |
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#43 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Maedhros: As Findegil said, the problem with leaving Squatter's line 5 is that it does not accomplish the needed transition from the present to the flashback. To keep that line 5, the transition would have to somehow be made in or before line 4.
I think that the best places for the transition are line 5 (as in my version) or line 6 (as in Findegil's). A problem with line 5 is simply that "But my heart recalleth sea musics" (or whatever else we may substitute) is a complete fabrication. But I am still hesitant to go with line 6. The transition still seems abrupt. Also, it makes the preceding lines completely irrelevant to the substance of the poem. One advantage of using line 5 is that we can make the transition through a comparison by Tuor of the "voices of the reeds" and the sea musics. Findegil, you seem rather set on line 6. Can you identify other problems with using line 5 that I'm missing? |
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#44 | |||
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,715
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Quote:
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Let's have nother try: Quote:
Respectfully Findegil |
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#45 | |||
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Findegil wrote:
Quote:
You propose: Quote:
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Also, I'm wary about the use of "how" here. I'm not sure that the construction "reminds me how" or "I recall how" is suitable for this style; I think it would properly be "I recall that . . ." Perhaps I'm over-analyzing, though. In principle, I think your idea of retaining the comparison by Tuor but placing it in the second half of line 6 is a sound one. But I honestly cannot see any way of improving the line. Perhaps I just haven't looked hard enough. We should also consider the possibility of dropping the poem. Certainly, we ought to do so if none of the proposed revisions is satisfactory to everyone. But also, there is the question of whether we are justified by our principles in making the kinds of revisions needed. |
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#46 | ||||
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,715
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Quote:
I have thought again on line 2 and your argument that, "whatever word we substitute for "was" (aside from the clumsy "am"), we will be inventing some action. I tried to think of the most innocuous action I could invent, and it was sitting. Of course he could have been walking - which throws the whole thing into doubt; are we justified in inventing the detail that he was sitting, or that he was walking, however minor it may be?" If we don't want invent some action, we have to take an action he is performing anyway. So what is about: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Respectfully Findegil |
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#47 | ||
The Kinslayer
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Quote:
Quote:
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
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#48 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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I suppose we are agreed on dropping The Horns of Ulmo - for the present, at least. I do think it's unfortunate to lose the poem. Out of the possibilities raised so far, to be honest, I like my proposal for a line 5 transition best. So, in my opinion, if that is too liberal a change, then the poem is unusable.
If we are indeed agreed on this point, then our first draft of The Fall of Gondolin is done. We need only await Antoine's/Maedhros's text. |
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#49 |
The Kinslayer
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Typos
This post is just to illustrate some typos that are in our current draft of the Fall of Gondolin:
Page 2: "in the great hill of slain that the have raised" should be "in the great hill of slain that the Orcs have raised" "Haudhen-Ndengin" should be "Haudh-en-Ndengin" "such as still remained. Elves or Men" The period should be replaced with a comma. "and be drove away" should be "and he drove away" Page 3: "and at the least be was not starved" should be "and at the least he was not starved" "Then he took up harp" should be "Then he took up the harp" Page 4: "withersoever yon turn" should be "whithersoever you turn" Page 6: "as be drew near" should be "as he drew near" Page 7: "between and thy goal" should be "between thee and thy goal" "What is then my goal. Lord?" The period should be replaced with a comma. "which long ago decreed" should be "Which long ago I decreed" Page 10: "and join with thy forays" should be "and join with the forays" "But I tamed on the way" should be "But I tarried on the way" Page 11: "on to strike us the more cruelly" should be "only to strike us the more cruelly" Page 12: "aimed, clad in black" should be "armed, clad in black" "with a long sword drawn and they wondered" should be "with a long sword drawn; and they wondered" (insert semicolon) "and Voronwë tamed somewhat north" should be "and Voronwë turned somewhat north" "How far is no to go?" should be "How far is it now to go?" "like cowed dog" should be "like a cowed dog" Page 13: "'Death is all about us,' and Tuor" should be "'Death is all about us,' said Tuor" Page 14: "wit out more doubt" should be "without more doubt" Page 16: "many slow minute passed" should be "many slow minutes passed" "marvelled to see to beauty" should be "marvelled to see its beauty" Page 17: "to a stranger it may seen" should be "to a stranger it may seem" We should also correct the junger for younger in page 27 and geart to great in page 34. Thanks Artanis. ![]()
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
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#50 |
Seeker of the Straight Path
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal
Posts: 1,680
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my 2 cents on the horns of Ulmo
I must say, I think Aiwendil;s revision oand present tensing of the Horns of Ulmo is excellent and should stay if at all possible.
The only thing I would change is: {Inland musics subtly magic} [But my heart recalleth sea musics] that {those} [the] {reeds} [waves] alone {could} [can] weave −} --> {Inland musics subtly magic} [Sea musics subtle magic ] that .... It preserves some rather weak poetry but does takes the worst edge off it. Of course I am dipping into this with only having read the last 10 or so posts. So feel free to disregard this thread is I have missed something blatantly obvious to everyone else... A+ for continuing effort my friends!
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