Werewolf CX: Insert Title Here - the game thread

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't know why Legate keeps insisting we should stick to as few voting options as possible. I feel like that's giving the wolves a free pass à la "look puppies, here's the menu toDay, which one would you like?" Especially toDay we should just see where the lynch goes, because us Europeans don't really have much to go on while the later voting Americans hopefully have more reasonable reasons to vote someone.

Now that you said this... Am I a terrible person because I feel like voting Nerwen just because I think she's not going to vote toDay and that's kind of more crucial in this game than normally?

You are a terrible person.

[Inziladun]

Just like old times.

Well, I still don't have my computer, and can't really quote anyone. I do think there's obvious bandwaggoning going on, and Legate looks the worst. The last line he put, "hope to see you tomorrow" I can understand coming from an outed Seer, but that obviously is not the case, and it looks even more forced coming on a Day One.

[Rikae]

Interesting. To me, Legate's been giving off more "pretending to be helpful" and "making a show of thinking like an innocent" vibes than Inzil has. Perhaps that in itself should make me suspect Inzil, since I normally seem to think he looks wolfy as pie. Or something.

EDIT: X'd with Inzil.

[Nerwen]

Have some nice soup while I catch up, all of you.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Legate's style of play always suggests to me an air of trying too hard to look innocent. He's always making those long lists reviewing every player, even when nothing has happened. So that's not really indicative of anything; it's just how he plays.

These Inzil votes are curious, for sure.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Legate is also effectively putting himself in the limelight with that third vote for Zil. I'm not sure about the vote's merits, but at least it's consistent with his previous inclination to limit the lynch-candidates; plus, somewhat risky stuff for a wolf.

Zil's annoyed reaction is understandable, but I'm not convinced that Legate "looks the worst." Although it's amusing that Legate wanted only a couple of voting options today and the table is now set for it to be between him and Zil. Let's not get bogged down by just those two, though.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Not getting a suspicious feeling from the Finns. Rikae: can't tell yet. Legate/Inzil: eh.... not really.

Worst so far is probably Kath. To make a random vote, I just don't find it useful. Even if I was going to vote randomly, I would couch it in some other terms to at least allow the possibility of other villagers jumping on the reason and sparking discussion.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally sat motionless in her chair. You know, she thought grimly, glancing at the mushrooms strewn about the floor, that's probably not what Oddwen had in mind when she came down for a night cap.

As the others reacted to Oddwen's gruesome yet well-garnished body, Sally silently debated how to tell them about what she had discovered last night. Definitely not discovered, she corrected herself. If I say that, they'll think I know something about this.

Which she did, in a way. She was probably the last one to see their visitor alive. Minding her own business, she had been, sneaking an ale to quench her thirst before heading home for the night, when in walked Oddwen. Perhaps it was the song Sally had been singing to herself at the time, but a look of rage had appeared on Oddwen's face and she had shrieked something in a language Sally couldn't understand. Sally had tried to ask her what was wrong, but instead recited a nasty limerick (a part of the story she would certainly leave out upon retelling). She had run out of the tavern in shock, and spent most of the night tossing and turning and hopelessly singing lullabies to herself in an attempt to get some rest.

Sally sighed. The real question is whether any of them would take her matter seriously, especially with this werewolf business going on. After all, a woman had just died! How selfish for her to think of her own trivial problem when there had been a murder. Then again, if she tried to conceal it from the rest of the group, they'd be likely to think she was hiding something more sinister.

So far this morning, her will had been strong enough to mumble short sentences, but as she cleared her throat and asked for everyone's attention, she could feel something taking over her, and she simply hoped they would understand the gravity of her situation, rather than thinking her attempts were to lighten the proceedings.

Sally stood up in front of the group and, though she tried her best to speak to them normally, she began to sing.

Lazy, so lazy I'm not even rhyming
But listen, listen and see that's not true
Because this curse was placed on me by Oddwen
Now I'm resigned to sing all my thoughts in a tune

And now some of our number are werewolves?
We know how these next Days will play through
Oddwen is gone now and lying among shrooms
The wolves will be lying and we'll all be dying
So now what are we going to do?

Oddwen is gone now and lying among shrooms
The wolves will be lying and we'll all be dying
So now what are we going to do?

****By request of (and with apologies to) the moddess****

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

You are a terrible person.

Well, prove her wrong and vote!

I need to vote now. I have three votes. As I don't really want to die just yet, I think I'll go ahead and give Legate his second. It's his latching onto the wagon, followed by that "throwaway" remark about hoping to be around the next Day. That still feels forced and not something an innocent would say at this time.

++Legate

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

++Kath

[satansaloser2005]

*hums along with the crickets*

[Oddwen]

The votes were cast, they were counted carefully - and they had decided to end the life of their town layabout, Inziladun.

"You never pull your own weight around here anyway!" they shouted.

"But...that's all that I pull," he said. "Well, that and the pile of mushrooms down on the leftovers of that tasty......oops."

To their horror, he covered his gaffe by covering himself in fur. And teeth. And claws. The latter items were only in the appropriate places, however.

"Too easy!" he growled. "And now no-one can stop me! Hahahahaha!" Unfortunately for him, no-one did - they all did. The fight was fearsome, and the furry flurry only ended when they beat him to death with whatever was laying handiest - you guessed it, mushrooms.

"And he was such a fun guy," they lamented.


------------------------

Dead:

Oddwen - A Visitor, beheaded and hidden under mushrooms.
Inziladun - Town Layabout, Werewolf

Living:

Eomer of the Rohirrim - Tavern-keep
A Little Green - Mad Gardener and Cat/Goat Lady
Thinlomien- The Housewife
satanisaloser2005 - Town Bard
Legate of Amon Lanc -Town Drunk
Kath - A Farmer, trying their hand at a new potentially lucrative crop: mushrooms!
Shasta - A Baker of Bread (and only Bread)
Rikae - A Candlestick Maker (but not a maker of candles)
Nerwen - A Soup Artist who is Souper at their job
aganzir - The Butcher



It is now Night. Wolves may PM.

[Oddwen]

It seemed slightly brighter that morning, probably because they all slept later than the previous day. Who knew killing monsters was so relaxing? Although Aganzir had clearly been up earlier than them all, leaving her customary wrapped parcels of meat at each doorstep........oh dear.

This had probably not been Aganzir's doing after all. It is difficult to chop yourself into pieces and then wrap them neatly, after all. And she had always been careful to save the blood, but this job...ew. What a mess. Everywhere.

As they buried their butcher piecemeal, Sally mournfully played a song:

She'll stay forever this way
She is here in this grave and
this blood will go on and on...


------------------


Dead:

Oddwen - A Visitor, beheaded and hidden under mushrooms.
Inziladun - Town Layabout, fenris'd on Day one, Werewolf
aganzir - The Butcher, dismembered on Night two, Villager
Living:

Eomer of the Rohirrim - Tavern-keep
A Little Green - Mad Gardener and Cat/Goat Lady
Thinlomien- The Housewife
satanisaloser2005 - Town Bard
Legate of Amon Lanc -Town Drunk
Kath - A Farmer, trying their hand at a new potentially lucrative crop: mushrooms!
Shasta - A Baker of Bread (and only Bread)
Rikae - A Candlestick Maker (but not a maker of candles)
Nerwen - A Soup Artist who is Souper at their job

It is now Day 2. Wolves stop PMing.

[Nerwen]

First things first– sorry for disappearing yesterDay. However, it seems that the village managed to do quite well without my help…

And once again the Rule of Three proves itself, Inzilawolf being the third person to post.

Meanwhile the first two (Aganzordo and Eomer of the Unknown) both made joking accusations of Zil. Very curious.

[Thinlómien]

Writing shortly on my phone -

1) this will be a difficult day for me bc I'll
only come home late and have to go to sleep at some semi sensible hour but I'll do my best to be around

2) this is the first post today ???

3) Agan? So the time we don't argue she dies early? Unfair. I can't think of much except that she voted Inzil if I recall correctly.

4) speaking of Inzil, good riddance. I am really happy you late-night crowd followed my suggestion to vote well. Anyhow, good, I think my inner pessimist is vanquished for a time: we should have more time and more leads now (I'll get back to that later when I can actually type).

Edit: xed

[Nerwen]

As for why Aganzir was killed– well, in a game with no gifteds it’s likely enough to have been semi-random. However, in her third post she mentions the possibility of there being a “secret rôle”– could that have attracted wolfish attention? Though of course if she’d really had such a rôle, you’d think she’d be a bit more circumspect about it.

EDIT:x’d with Lommy.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

As for why Aganzir was killed– well, in a game with no gifteds it’s likely enough to have been semi-random. However, in her third post she mentions the possibility of there being a “secret rôle”– could that have attracted wolfish attention? Though of course if she’d really had such a rôle, you’d think she’d be a bit more circumspect about it.

That might have been part of it; personally, I would also imagine the Wolves might have simply thought she looks innocent enough in this game. Because I think that's what several people agreed on. Or what other possibilities might there be? Did she accuse anyone dramatically? We don't have a Seer, so it shouldn't bother the WWs that much if somebody accuses them, but then again the village is small, so targeting people who accuse them would eliminate those who might be inclined to lynch them. Also, given that the village is small, I think those who voted for Zil are less likely to be his packmates.

For that matter. I am still somewhat concerned about Lommy - she could have also killed Agan because Agan looked innocent this game and she would think it was not such a good idea to keep her around as a generally considered innocent Agan would be no good for the WWs. What speaks in her favor was that her vote, which could easily have been against Eomer in order to better protect Zil, was instead for me, thus spreading it. But then, she could count on Zil voting to save himself; and also, voting Eomer for no good reason would only have drawn suspicion.

Speaking of that, Eomer himself also seems sorta fishy to me. His vote yesterDay especially looked like a kind of sidestep. Imagine: if he and Inzil are packmates, then what he could have done at that point was either vote to save Zil, or cast a vote for someone else, which is what he did. But on second thought, there wouldn't be that much for him to lose if he actually had voted to save Zil. I mean, we wouldn't know he was a Wolf. Of course, unless somebody still voted and swung the vote. For which, in fact, looking at the timestamps, there was basically two hours time. Fair enough. Keeping an eye on Eomer, in any case.

Hm, also just realised that if Eomer and Lommy both were Wolves, then of course Lommy would not like to vote for Eomer, simply because then it would have come between two Wolves... now that would be fun if it was that way.

But anyway... that's it from me for now, I guess. Hope to see more people posting, and to get something out of toDay, preferrably another Wolf.

[A Little Green]

One wolf in the bag, two to go! I had a look at yesterDay's voting. Known wolf underlined, known ordo italicised.

Kath → Eomer

Originally Posted by Kath

I'd vote any of you lot right now for your 'shroom-ism. But in the interests of trying to make this as fair as a useless vote can be, I'm picking the first person who posted.

As I said earlier, this was about the safest vote she could have cast. Admittedly (and in answer to Legate's query about why I commented on that from Kath and then proceeded to vote Inzil), early in Day 1 a flimsy reason for a vote might just as well signify lazy ordo as safe-playing wolf.

Greenie → Inzil

Originally Posted by me

Because this is the closest to a suspicious thing I've seen this far:

It almost looks as if he took a moment to reflect on how an innocent would feel in this situation, then listed all the points he came up with. It does seem pretty doomed, oh dear there are no gifteds that's such bad news for us, and let's all be nice good innocent villagers ok? It's not much, but it's the best I've got.

Lommy → Legate

Originally Posted by Lommy

He's the only one who's really caught my attention this far (obviously ) in any way, both by sounding like he's a parody of himself - which, granted, could be just him sounding like himself, but could also mean he's trying too hard to sound like his normal self - and by making slightly weird points about focusing the votes.

Now I'm far from convinced he's a wolf but I don't really have any better leads at the moment. Good night and Night! Vote well.

Classic flippety-flop here, but I do see where she's coming from. Could go either way, really - innocent Lommy doing her best with very little to go on, or an evil Lommy trying to divert attention from packmate-Inzil while repeatedly emphasising that she isn't sure at all about Legate's guilt, thereby washing her hands of responsibility should he end up lynched and revealed innocent.

Agan → Inzil (2)
(No need to quote her reasoning for the vote, as she was innocent and he was a wolf - incidentally, why is it that the one time we're not at each other's throats, she dies on Night 2? )

Legate → Inzil (3)

Originally Posted by Legate

Looking at Zil's post as a sum, and given that he already has two votes, I don't actually have anything against trying to vote him. There is not much better reasoning against anybody else anyway. (What I just said in my previous post.)

Originally Posted by Legate

Inzil: what I also just said. [very little to go on, sounds reasonable but can't tell from one post] There is maybe a bit of weird vibe, but again, what can one do with two and half posts.

Followed by

Inzil → Legate (2)

Originally Posted by Inzilawolf

I need to vote now. I have three votes. As I don't really want to die just yet, I think I'll go ahead and give Legate his second. It's his latching onto the wagon, followed by that "throwaway" remark about hoping to be around the next Day. That still feels forced and not something an innocent would say at this time.

This exchange is, to me, the most interesting of the Day. Wolf-on-wolf, or wolf-on-ordo (is that even a word?)? The thing is, Legate doesn't really give an argument against Inzil beyond "maybe a bit of a weird vibe" and "there is not much better reasoning against anybody else anyway". I'm not sure if he's the type to bus a fellow; but if he was, that would be a very clever move. Note that Legate is the third to vote Inzil, and the other candidates at that point were Eomer (who was voted randomly rather than based on an actual suspicion) and himself. A wolfy Legate may have judged that it was likely either he or Inzil was going to get lynched, and voted for the latter to clear himself. Likewise, an Inzilwolf may then have decided to play along and vote for Legate, in hopes that whichever of them survived the vote would come away looking pretty innocent.

Eomer → Kath

Originally Posted by Eomer

Worst so far is probably Kath. To make a random vote, I just don't find it useful. Even if I was going to vote randomly, I would couch it in some other terms to at least allow the possibility of other villagers jumping on the reason and sparking discussion.

Retaliation? Principle? Handily keeping away from the Inzil-Legate-duo? Choreographed wolf-on-wolf? Safe vote for someone very unlikely to get lynched? I want to see more from him before deciding. Also, there were two pairs who voted each other, Legate and Inzilawolf, and Eomer and Kath. Not sure if it means anything, but it caught my eye.

Another thing that caught my eye about the voting was that, in a village of 11, three (Nerwen, Sally, and Shasta) did not vote. This is really quite a catastrophic percentage. Nerwen isn't a surprise. Sally posts a long IC post that must have taken some time to compose so she was certainly around, but did not vote. Why, Sallykins? As for Shasta, are we sure he's aware the game has started?


EDIT: x-ed with dear Legzy <3

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

So we can only discuss about half the village as far as yesterday's votes go.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Legate

That might have been part of it; personally, I would also imagine the Wolves might have simply thought she looks innocent enough in this game. Because I think that's what several people agreed on.

I agree. I don't think anyone suspected her, which is rather rare in itself. Also, she gave Inzil his second vote which was bound to make her an unlikely lynch the following Day.

Originally Posted by Legate

For that matter. I am still somewhat concerned about Lommy - she could have also killed Agan because Agan looked innocent this game and she would think it was not such a good idea to keep her around as a generally considered innocent Agan would be no good for the WWs.

I'm not following your argument here. How does "a generally considered innocent Agan" being no good for the WWs incriminate Lommy in particular?

Originally Posted by Legate

Speaking of that, Eomer himself also seems sorta fishy to me. His vote yesterDay especially looked like a kind of sidestep. Imagine: if he and Inzil are packmates, then what he could have done at that point was either vote to save Zil, or cast a vote for someone else, which is what he did. But on second thought, there wouldn't be that much for him to lose if he actually had voted to save Zil. I mean, we wouldn't know he was a Wolf. Of course, unless somebody still voted and swung the vote. For which, in fact, looking at the timestamps, there was basically two hours time. Fair enough. Keeping an eye on Eomer, in any case.

Thing is, Eomer couldn't have saved Zil. At that point, Zil had three votes and Legate had two, so the most Eomerwolf could have achieved by way of rescuing Zil would have been a draw which, barring later votes, would have resulted in a coin flip. So if Eomer is a wolf, voting for someone completely unrelated to the whole Inzil issue was pretty much the smartest thing he could do.


EDIT: x-ed with Eomer

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Eomer

So we can only discuss about half the village as far as yesterday's votes go.

Sad but true - out of the nine people we have left, three (One third of the village! Seriously!) did not vote, and one voted more or less randomly.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Sally posts a long IC post that must have taken some time to compose so she was certainly around, but did not vote. Why, Sallykins? As for Shasta, are we sure he's aware the game has started?

Seconded the question about Sally. Shasta I believe mentioned on the other thread that he was off somewhere, but that means he should be around now.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'm not following your argument here. How does "a generally considered innocent Agan" being no good for the WWs incriminate Lommy in particular?

Doesn't. It was meant to be two separate statements, should have phrased it better. "I am still wary of Lommy," full stop. Continuing the train of thought, if she was a Wolf: if she was a Wolf, I can see her killing Agan pretty easily. (But it's an option for anyone, really.)

Originally Posted by Greenie

Thing is, Eomer couldn't have saved Zil. At that point, Zil had three votes and Legate had two, so the most Eomerwolf could have achieved by way of rescuing Zil would have been a draw which, barring later votes, would have resulted in a coin flip. So if Eomer is a wolf, voting for someone completely unrelated to the whole Inzil issue was pretty much the smartest thing he could do.

Fair enough. Well at that point there were still people to vote, but yeah. It probably wouldn't be smart for him to try to save Zil very much in either case.

Anyway, looking forward to see more from others.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Inzil didn't leave much to go on, but he did cast the suspicion right back at Legate in a fairly clear suggestion to get other villagers to vote Legate instead of him. This at a point when he was justified in believing there were more votes to come. Unless they began the game with the intention to do wolf-on-wolf voting - which would seem needless to me - I'm tempted to take Legate as innocent.

Same goes for Green for her vote. It's not that I discount wolf-on-wolf entirely, but I suspect that this game's pack would have fancied their chances at a clean sweep with no seer around.

[Rikae]

I'm really sorry, folks. I lost track of time, and remembered the deadline five minutes after it had passed. It's probably for the best, though, since I was leaning toward voting for Legate.

As for Legate, I'm going to tentatively put him in the "ordo" category. A wolf wouldn't have felt the need to bus Inzil like that at that point.

Greenie is another matter. Her original suspicion of Inzil seemed to come out of the blue and actually looked rather flimsy to me at the time. Sure, it could be a stroke of genius, or just a lucky hunch, but it could also be wolf-on-wolf that got out of hand.

The only other thing that comes to mind about yesterDay, off the top of my head, is that Eomer's safe vote at the end of the day bugged me. Still, I'm going to have to read through everything once more when I get the chance.

[Nerwen]

Everyone, Day One

#4. Eomer. Banter. Mock-accusations of Legate and Inzilawolf based on in-game rôles.

#5. Aganzir (known innocent). Banter.

#6. Aganzir. Comments on general quietness; thinks the odds against the village are “rather bleak”.

#7.

Originally Posted by Agan

...Unless there's a secret role to help us. But that's not very likely is it?

Anyway I think sally, Inzil and Rikae are the wolves because they are the only ones whose occupation isn't even remotely related to food. And if it keeps being this quiet I will vote accordingly. (Heck, I might anyway. It's not exactly as if we have anything to go on.)

#8 – #12. Back and forth, mainly banter, between Eomer and Aganzir. At #8 Eomer makes another mock-accusation, this time of Agan, who, at #9 replies that she would like to joke about being a wolf, or his packmate, but doesn’t think it’s worth it due to the importance of actually lynching a wolf. At #10 Eomer asks Agan what she makes of the situation, although in a semi-joking way. Agan gives a joking reply at #11 and at #12 repeats that she doesn’t like the odds.

Comment: Very chummy, these two. If Agan's rôle were unknown, I might be tempted to see them as potential pack mates. As it is, though… two innocents sounding each other out? Wolf buddying up to an innocent? I wonder.

#13.

Originally Posted by Inzilawolf

[Replying to Agan]
Since you asked, an enchilada would be good. Hold the guacamole, and add black beans and Mexican rice.

Well, the ratio right now is 7-3, obviously. A couple of bad lynches does make it a pretty doomed affair. No Gifteds is a serious handicap. So it's important that everyone show up and vote toDay. This is certainly a case where "I won't vote cos I don't see anyone as suspicious" will play to the baddies.

This post was later flagged as suspicious by A Little Green.

#14. Rikae. Counters Agan's pessimism by pointing out that the odds of lynching a wolf are good; anticipates "a game based on reasoning and analysis instead of gifted strategy”; makes mock-accusation of Agan based on in-game rôle.

#15. Eomer makes joking, or semi-joking, accusation of the other three, based on Rule of Three type reasoning– since"wolves, more than ordos, would be hyped for the game and unable to refrain from posting ASAP, I guess I've already got my three wolves in the bag”.

#16. Lommy agrees with Agan that the odds are poor; says there may be a secret rôle or twist but that it should not be counted on and that, "Rather, we should just keep our wits around and try or best and if we lose, pull the "the odds were against us from the start” card”. Will be voting early; laments lack of posting.
Comments

Back and forth between Greenie and Legate (#17 - #24).
#17. Legate agrees with both camps regarding the odds– i.e. it is generally bad but also the village has a high chance of hitting a wolf by chance. Wants to make the votes “orderly”: "try to avoid spreading them out, so the WWs are actually forced to vote to save their lynchmates... that is, if their lynchmates are among the candidates in the first place”.

#18.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

[Replying to Eomer at #15] What, including yourself?

Legate, what are lynchmates?

#19.
Legate clarifies that he means “their pack mates who are about to be lynched”; believes wolves will have more need to save their packmates than in a larger village.

#20. Greenie will vote early; is tempted to vote for a “no-show” but thinks it wouldn’t be fair.

#21. Greenie queries Legate's reasoning at #19.

#22. Legate agrees but says he was trying “to present the other side”: the wolves are in danger because "there is no infinite crowd of random no-posters to hide in".

#23. Kath votes Eomer, stressing that it is a throwaway: "in the interests of trying to make this as fair as a useless vote can be, I'm picking the first person who posted.” This is the first vote of the Day.

Tally
Kath —> Eomer.

Comment: Odd and seems rather forced– could she really not find *any* reason, at that point? This post is, however, marked as having crossed with “everyone” since 7 pm.

#24. Greenie accepts Legate's point, but suggests that the wolves themselves might be “the infinite crowd of no-posters.

#25. Greenie calls Kath's vote “the easiest vote you could possibly cast”.

#26. Rikae dislikes Legate's suggestion at #19: "In a village this small, trying not to spread out the votes very nearly translates to "lynch the first person who gets a vote", and of course, wolves can vote early with confidence that it isn't someone on their own side, and we can’t.” Urges everyone to talk more.

#27.

Originally Posted by Lommy

So, what have we got so far -

Eomer being chatty and pointing fingers in the usual manner.

Aganzir trying to steal my occupation as the village pessimist. Having a bit of a devil-may-care attitude too, which might point at her innocence. I don't know.

Inziladun got on my bad side by making me hungry. Mmm enchiladas with guacamole... Other than that, hard to say. Literally basic Inzil, which statistically probably equals wolf.

Rikae enjoys the challenge? Good - we should keep her around as a wünderbaum... erm I mean, to keep the air fresh and optimistic.

Legate sounds like a parody of himself, only with shorter posts. I wonder if he's doing it intentionally or not.

Greenie is basically just trying to have a chat with someone and questioning their wording. Also absolutely typical.

...yeah, surprising conclusion, nobody seems super suspicious so far!

I would like to see more posts before I vote, but I really have to go to sleep within an hour, preferably sooner than later. Seeing as nothing really stands out, I don't feel very good about just randomly voting someone basically just because they posted, but voting someone just because they didn't post yet seems like an equally stupid move. Argh. Like literally my best lead at the moment is to vote Inzil because he is always a wolf... *scratches head*

Comment: here we have yet another player making a *joking* accusation of the person who turned out to be a wolf. Especially striking in this case as she doesn’t do it to anyone else.

#28.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Because this is the closest to a suspicious thing I've seen this far:

It almost looks as if he took a moment to reflect on how an innocent would feel in this situation, then listed all the points he came up with. It does seem pretty doomed, oh dear there are no gifteds that's such bad news for us, and let's all be nice good innocent villagers ok? It's not much, but it's the best I've got.

Comment: this is the second vote of the Day. It is also the *fourth* time someone has expressed suspicion of Inzilawolf, yet only the *first* time anyone has a serious reason for doing so.

Tally
Kath —> Eomer
Greenie —> Zil (wolf).

#29. Legate defends Kath's vote since “there isn’t much to cast, anyway”. Rambles about pros vs cons of voting for no-posters; finds it rather suspicious that Kath votes at all on Day One.

#30.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Typically outrageous behaviour from Kath. Although, I suspect a wolf-Kath would probably just ignore the Day One vote and come in all late and innocent and apologetic. Whatever else, we should all vote today, however badly reasoned; so I at least approve of that.

The price of her ale just went up, mind.

#31. Legate replies to Rikae's criticism with this, which seems to beg the question:
"Yes, what I meant was something like that ideal state is having like two candidates, not more. (Although looking at the votes cast so far, I am not very happy about that. So maybe it will just naturally gravitate towards "let's see what the first Day brings us". But I hope future Days will have some field rather in the sense of having as few major choices as possible; well, they'd better, anyway.)” Agrees that more talk is needed; finds Lommy's suspicion list “too nice”.

#32. Lommy is also critical of Legate's voting plan as “'I feel like that's giving the wolves a free pass à la "look puppies, here's the menu toDay, which one would you like?’” Is considering voting me for my presumed non-vote.

#33. Eomer also mentions my notorious Day One voting record, but thinks I would be in a good position because of the DL.

#34. Inzilawolf mentions having power outages.

#35.

Originally Posted by Agan

[Replying to Rikae]I modded a no-gifted game with about 5 ordos more than here and the wolves swept a lynchless victory. Granted they were a very good pack, but my faith in reasoning and analysis is somewhat weaker than yours, especially as there's a crucial thing missing - time. So all in all I kind of agree with Legate(?) who said the wolves have more of a reason to be excited.

Feeling okay-ish of Team Finn (Legate, Greenie and Lomster).
Eomer seems outrageously suspicious and is therefore probably innocent.
Knowing the game has started is kind of a point against Kath.
Inzil is a question mark, could be persuaded to suspect him because of what somebody pointed out (effort to go through the rules from an innocent perspective) but won't yet.
Rikae feels a tiny bit iffy but not enough to act on it yet.

#36.

Originally Posted by Inzilawolf

I guess I can see Greenie's reasoning, at least for a Day 1. Seems a little dodgy though that she went that way after a comment about Kath making an easy vote.

#37. Lommy votes Legate:

Originally Posted by Lommy

He's the only one who's really caught my attention this far (obviously ) in any way, both by sounding like he's a parody of himself - which, granted, could be just him sounding like himself, but could also mean he's trying too hard to sound like his normal self - and by making slightly weird points about focusing the votes.

Now I'm far from convinced he's a wolf but I don't really have any better leads at the moment. Good night and Night! Vote well.

Comment: Yet, she wasn’t even considering voting him before this...

Tally
Kath —> Eomer
Greenie —> Zil (wolf)
Lommy —> Legate.

#38.

Originally Posted by Legate

Okay, want to vote soon too, so just very quickly:

Eomer is being so far absolutely awful as far as his posting is concerned, but I think that's maybe rather a sign of a classic Eomer and not Wolfishness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
I guess I can see Greenie's reasoning, at least for a Day 1. Seems a little dodgy though that she went that way after a comment about Kath making an easy vote.
This is dodgy by itself; as in, would be easy way to cast a suspicion (a bit in self-defense, too), then again, it is really an observation of how Greenie voted. Personally though I don't have anything against Greenie's vote as it is: it is really just fairly random, because at that point there wasn't really much to base it on.

As for general overview...

Lommy: now if she is evil, her vote against me is obviously retaliation. If she isn't, then, well she isn't (ok, need to go to sleep soon). I mentioned that some of the stuff looked fishy, but again, we are on Day 1 and there really isn't much to operate with.
Agan: looks more like being innocent than not. Like one of the few I would totally give a pass for toDay based on how they posted.
Greenie: Bah. At least she's been actively posting; so that's one reason why not to cast a vote for her; the posting hasn't been in any way suspicious and did seem in fact maybe even a bit more like innocent Greenie than not.
Rikae: Very little to go on. Reasonable, but one post, so come on. Can't really say much from that.
Eomer: what I just said. Probably won't vote him as that would be completely random (hmm, but if he remained being just random, he'd deserve that though...)
Inzil: what I also just said. There is maybe a bit of weird vibe, but again, what can one do with two and half posts.
Kath: Honestly, that's effectively just a vote. What I said (and Agan mentioned too) stands, however: I think she'd be more likely to show around if she happens to be a Wolf and thus some packmates alerted her about the game. But that's a) metareasoning and I don't trust that by default, b) Kath would probably anyway behave independantly of whether somebody told her or not and however things were. So it's a bit similar case to Greenie; just too random. Probably not my vote.
sally: expect her to appear later, leaving her out of my calculations for now
Shasta: ditto
Nerwen: well, what Lommy said... but I think I am just leaving her out of this for now.

That's it, I guess... will think for a bit and then vote.

#39. Agan votes Inzilawolf “because I don’t want to spread it too much.”

Tally
Kath —> Eomer
Greenie —> Zil (wolf)
Lommy —> Legate
Agan (innocent) —> Zil (2).

#40. Legate votes Inzilawolf for the same reason as Agan.

Tally
Kath —> Eomer
Greenie —> Zil (wolf)
Lommy —> Legate
Agan (innocent) —> Zil (2)
Legate —> Zil (3).

#41. I tell Lommy she is terrible person for considering voting me.

#42.

Originally Posted by Inzilawolf

Just like old times.

Well, I still don't have my computer, and can't really quote anyone. I do think there's obvious bandwaggoning going on, and Legate looks the worst. The last line he put, "hope to see you tomorrow" I can understand coming from an outed Seer, but that obviously is not the case, and it looks even more forced coming on a Day One.

#43.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Interesting. To me, Legate's been giving off more "pretending to be helpful" and "making a show of thinking like an innocent" vibes than Inzil has. Perhaps that in itself should make me suspect Inzil, since I normally seem to think he looks wolfy as pie. Or something.

#44. Me: banter. Then I disappear and am never seen again. (Connections went out in my area, if you’re curious).

A series of interesting posts from Eomer.

#45.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Legate's style of play always suggests to me an air of trying too hard to look innocent. He's always making those long lists reviewing every player, even when nothing has happened. So that's not really indicative of anything; it's just how he plays.

These Inzil votes are curious, for sure.

#46.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Legate is also effectively putting himself in the limelight with that third vote for Zil. I'm not sure about the vote's merits, but at least it's consistent with his previous inclination to limit the lynch-candidates; plus, somewhat risky stuff for a wolf.

Zil's annoyed reaction is understandable, but I'm not convinced that Legate "looks the worst." Although it's amusing that Legate wanted only a couple of voting options today and the table is now set for it to be between him and Zil. Let's not get bogged down by just those two, though.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Not getting a suspicious feeling from the Finns. Rikae: can't tell yet. Legate/Inzil: eh.... not really.

Worst so far is probably Kath. To make a random vote, I just don't find it useful. Even if I was going to vote randomly, I would couch it in some other terms to at least allow the possibility of other villagers jumping on the reason and sparking discussion.

#47. Sally makes a lengthy in-character post. Seems oblivious to the rest of the thread.

#48.

Originally Posted by Inzilawolf

I need to vote now. I have three votes. As I don't really want to die just yet, I think I'll go ahead and give Legate his second. It's his latching onto the wagon, followed by that "throwaway" remark about hoping to be around the next Day. That still feels forced and not something an innocent would say at this time.

Votes Legate.

Tally
Kath —> Eomer
Greenie —> Zil (wolf)
Lommy —> Legate
Agan (innocent) —> Zil (2)
Legate —> Zil (3)
Zil —> Legate (2).

#49. Eomer votes Kath
Tally
Kath —> Eomer
Greenie —> Zil (wolf)
Lommy —> Legate
Agan (innocent) —> Zil (2)
Legate —> Zil (3)
Zil —> Legate (2).
Eomer —> Kath.



#50.

Originally Posted by Sally

*hums along with the crickets*

Comments: Eomer stands out here as a possible packmate of Inzilawolf. It is important to note, though, that this was a classic drive-by Fenrissing, thus an innocent might have baulked at the lack of reasoning behind the votes. Then there's Lommy, who seems not to have considered voting Legate until *after* Zil got a vote. Legate makes some very dubious and arguably counter-productive suggestions, but his vote looks very good and seems unlikely to have come from a wolf. We should not, however, rule him out altogether because of this– I have played in too many games where the village “cleared” a wolf for gratuitously bussing a packmate. It happens. Greenie is notable for being the first person to vote Zil and the one to make some semblance of a case against him. Again, this looks pretty good, but, in the interest of maintaining a healthy paranoia, we could always turn this around and wonder why *she* wasn’t the one killed.

My connection went out while typing this and I couldn’t refresh, so I have undoubtedly crossed with many people. Just letting you all know.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Any particular reason you didn't commit to a vote at the end, Sally?

[satansaloser2005]

Heigh ho, heigh ho, it's off to work I- already am.

I didn't feel comfy voting for either candidate yesterDay - or rather, I didn't feel comfy choosing between them, finding both of them to be acting rather unusual but not suspecting either enough at the time to vote for one over the other. At least I didn't stick my nose in and muck up Dun's induction into the noble order of the Fenris, so I feel no shame about not voting yesterDay. Mind, today won't see the same silence; I'll post more once I'm home from work and have checked everyone out.

Also, the wolves are in trouble for slaughtering my minx. Well done. *rimshot* Seriously though, rude and uncalled for. There was seemingly no reason for her to be the target. Besides, I was looking forward to arguing with her.

Back again when I can.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nerwen, your comment on Lommy seems to boil down to: she didn't vote for Zil; which obviously goes for just about everyone else. I mean, I know it all fits - her possibly starting a movement to save Zil - but it rather feels as if she's being suspected for being in that place at that time.

Also, Rikae: can you explain a bit more why you thought my vote was safe? I mean, I think I know what you mean, but still...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Hello, everyone! Apologies for being late. Let me get caught up and I'll be with you as soon as I get this bread out of the oven.

[Rikae]

Ok, I've looked over yesterDay, and there wasn't really much to see beyond what I remembered.

Greenie to Kath:

Originally Posted by Greenie

I know at this point we can't really expect stronger reasoning than this, but this still strikes me as the easiest vote you can possibly cast.

I wondered about this. Why is it the easiest possible? Easier than other random votes?

Originally Posted by Lommy

Legate sounds like a parody of himself, only with shorter posts. I wonder if he's doing it intentionally or not.

What did you mean by that, Lommy?

Greenie's vote

Originally Posted by Greenie

It almost looks as if he took a moment to reflect on how an innocent would feel in this situation, then listed all the points he came up with. It does seem pretty doomed, oh dear there are no gifteds that's such bad news for us, and let's all be nice good innocent villagers ok? It's not much, but it's the best I've got.

The thing about this is, I don't see it myself. I mean, in retrospect it was exactly what he was doing, but here this strikes me as the sort of nit another wolf would pick. It looks like that's what he's doing, to her, because she knows that's what he's doing. Since it's clearly an early vote on flimsy reasoning, she could easily have felt it was only a small risk.

Oh, and Sally: hanging around and joking about crickets, posting songs, but not voting or contributing? Not cool.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Also, Rikae: can you explain a bit more why you thought my vote was safe? I mean, I think I know what you mean, but still...

Because it was. Kath wasn't likely to be lynched at that point. You neither contributed to Inzil's lynch nor did anything that could be construed as saving him.

[Rikae]

Oh, and of course, your vote didn't actually contain anything that would make it more likely she'd be lynched. Just the vote, and an earlier post saying

Originally Posted by Eomer

To make a random vote, I just don't find it useful.

I don't find voting people for making random votes very useful either.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Sally

I didn't feel comfy voting for either candidate yesterDay - or rather, I didn't feel comfy choosing between them, finding both of them to be acting rather unusual but not suspecting either enough at the time to vote for one over the other. At least I didn't stick my nose in and muck up Dun's induction into the noble order of the Fenris, so I feel no shame about not voting yesterDay. Mind, today won't see the same silence; I'll post more once I'm home from work and have checked everyone out.

OK, but why didn't you say any of this yesterDay?

Originally Posted by Rikae

I wondered about this. Why is it the easiest possible? Easier than other random votes?

In a sense. Voting randomly in general is a very safe option, and picking Eomer because he was the first one who posted - well, given all the "rule of three" nonsense, that was a neat balancing between a clearly random vote and one that could be justified with a light, logical, half-joking reason. I don't know how well I'm explaining myself here, it makes sense in my head but I can't seem to articulate it very clearly.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Immediate thought while skimming - Legate is a wolf!

Now to figure out why my brain elected to say that...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Hm. I'm not going to be able to post quotes until I get home from work, but for now - post 57, specifically the bit about Lommy; it read to me as "I think she's suspicious, but I don't, but I do."

Now, Lommy herself I could maybe see doing that. But Legate?

Granted, from what I've read this far Legate appears to have been fairly instrumental in the Inzil lynch yesterday, and I know several people seem to have perfectly good reasons to think him innocent at this juncture. I just wanted to get my first impression down. I'll need to do some more reading.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Hm. I'm not going to be able to post quotes until I get home from work, but for now - post 57, specifically the bit about Lommy; it read to me as "I think she's suspicious, but I don't, but I do."

Now, Lommy herself I could maybe see doing that. But Legate?

Oh, but he does it all the time! Ever heard the phrase "Legate 180"?

That said, I do have my reservations about trusting him. As I mentioned earlier, the only other viable lynch candidate to have emerged by the time he voted was himself (I'm not counting Eomer since he was a random vote). To be sure, a wolf Legate could have cooked up a case against Eomer just off the cuff, but that would have raised quite a few eyebrows. I'm not saying this means Legate is a wolf, only that I don't think we should write him off as innocent just yet. Even though he clearly indicates that we should -

Originally Posted by Legate

Also, given that the village is small, I think those who voted for Zil are less likely to be his packmates.

Inzil was voted for by a grand total of three people, one of whom was the now-dead ordo, and another was Legate himself - which makes me curious about his choice of words, "those who voted for Zil". Is that a roundabout way of saying "I'm an unlikely wolf, wink wink", or is he saying I'm an unlikely wolf? If so, why the plural? I mean, I'm not sure why an innocent Legate would call himself "less likely to be Inzil's packmate".

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Legate is also effectively putting himself in the limelight with that third vote for Zil. I'm not sure about the vote's merits, but at least it's consistent with his previous inclination to limit the lynch-candidates; plus, somewhat risky stuff for a wolf.

I just noticed this only when somebody quoted it: Eomer, could you actually clarify what you meant by this? Like by "somewhat risky stuff for a wolf"? How was it risky? (Just crossed my mind that this sounds a bit like a Wolf-slip. "It would be a risky stuff for a Wolf to do, because Inzil is a Wolf." Without realizing that you are not supposed to know that he is one...) So how did you mean this?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I didn't feel comfy voting for either candidate yesterDay - or rather, I didn't feel comfy choosing between them, finding both of them to be acting rather unusual but not suspecting either enough at the time to vote for one over the other. At least I didn't stick my nose in and muck up Dun's induction into the noble order of the Fenris, so I feel no shame about not voting yesterDay. Mind, today won't see the same silence; I'll post more once I'm home from work and have checked everyone out.

Also, the wolves are in trouble for slaughtering my minx. Well done. *rimshot* Seriously though, rude and uncalled for. There was seemingly no reason for her to be the target. Besides, I was looking forward to arguing with her.

Back again when I can.

Okay, this post a) is not very good clarification - I am seconding Rikae and Greenie here - you were around and did not want to vote, so why didn't you say so, for example? But b) especially its second part sounds a bit Wolfy to me. This kind of "I am being nice, oh poor Agan, she was killed." Together with the first part it would then be an awful Wolf-alibism. Watching sally.

Originally Posted by Rikae

The thing about this is, I don't see it myself. I mean, in retrospect it was exactly what he was doing, but here this strikes me as the sort of nit another wolf would pick. It looks like that's what he's doing, to her, because she knows that's what he's doing. Since it's clearly an early vote on flimsy reasoning, she could easily have felt it was only a small risk.

I agree with Rikae's perception of this, even though I am not sure if I agree with the conclusion; it does not necessarily seem to me like a Wolf-thing to do. But it's a thing to note, sure.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Hm. I'm not going to be able to post quotes until I get home from work, but for now - post 57, specifically the bit about Lommy; it read to me as "I think she's suspicious, but I don't, but I do."

Now, Lommy herself I could maybe see doing that. But Legate?

How many games have you played with me again? And this surprises you?

EDIT: x-ed with Greenie

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Legate

I just noticed this only when somebody quoted it: Eomer, could you actually clarify what you meant by this? Like by "somewhat risky stuff for a wolf"? How was it risky? (Just crossed my mind that this sounds a bit like a Wolf-slip. "It would be a risky stuff for a Wolf to do, because Inzil is a Wolf." Without realizing that you are not supposed to know that he is one...) So how did you mean this?

I don't normally put much stock in alleged wolf-slips, but that does look odd.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Legate

I just noticed this only when somebody quoted it: Eomer, could you actually clarify what you meant by this? Like by "somewhat risky stuff for a wolf"? How was it risky? (Just crossed my mind that this sounds a bit like a Wolf-slip. "It would be a risky stuff for a Wolf to do, because Inzil is a Wolf." Without realizing that you are not supposed to know that he is one...) So how did you mean this?

I'm just guessing here, but I read that as "voting as the third in a bandwagon is risky for a wolf", a valid point given how much scrutiny bandwagoners are subjected to if the victim turns out innocent. I hadn't thought of that comment after Inzil turned out to be a wolf though, and your reading of it sounds like a possibility, too.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Leave me alone, it's hard to argue with a feeling.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Oh, and of course, your vote didn't actually contain anything that would make it more likely she'd be lynched. Just the vote, and an earlier post saying
I don't find voting people for making random votes very useful either.

Though more useful than not voting at all, I dare say.