DoV/RotS: the outline and editing discussions - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Maédhros · 04-03-2004, 11:30 AM

Lindil, I was wondering if you had a copy of the work that was done regarding the Darkening of Valinor so that we could see it. If I'm following rigthly this thread, you divided this chapter in several parts and each one of you did a revision in them.
How you by any chance a working text that you could post in the private forum or send by mail that would be great. I would like to comment on your work.

Findegil · 04-26-2006, 12:27 PM

This is a draft of an expanded version of the Story of the long chapter The darkening of Valionr and its subchapters. Our basis text is: History of Middle-earth; volume 10: Morgoth’s Ring, part 3: The Later Quenta Silmarillion; division II: The Second Phase; (LQ2n). All additions from other sources are marked.

For an easier reference the text is divided into the given sub-chapters.

We have 7 groups of changes:

DoV-zz: General changes given and discussed in the list below. These changes are taken up in the text, but they are not indicated by "editorial markers"

DoV-FM-zz: Changes that occur in the sub-chapter of Of Finwe and Miriel.

DoV-UM-zz: Changes that occur in the sub-chapter of Of the Feanor and the Unchaning of Melkor.

DoV-UN-zz: Changes that occur in the sub-chapter of Of the Silmaril and the Unrest of the Noldor.

DoV-DV-zz: Changes that occur in the sub-chapter of Of the Darkening of Valionr.

DoV-RS-zz: Changes that occur in the sub-chapter of Of the Rape of the Silmaril.

DoV-TQ-zz: Changes that occur in the sub-chapter of Of the Thieves’ Quarrel.

Some conventions of my writing:
Normal Text is from the basic text that is mentioned above (when I change the basic-Text it will be mentioned)
Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks
{example} = text that should be deleted
[example] = normalised text, normally only used for general changes
<source example> = additions with source information
example = text inserted for grammatical or metrical reason
/example/ = outline expansion
Normally if an inserted text includes the beginning of a new § these is indicated by a missing “>” at the end of the § and a missing “<” at the beginning of the next.

General changes:
DoV-01 Gnome/Gnomes/Gnomish to Elf/Elves/Elvish or Noldo/Noldor/Noldorin. "Gnomes" was dropped by Tolkien in LR and later writings, often replaced by Noldor. It would be better artistically to retain the original variation Gnome/Gnomes and Noldo/Noldoli which can be best done by replacing Gnome/Gnomes by Elf/Elves except where a general reference to Elves would not fit, as in "the Gnomes were exiles at heart, haunted with a desire for their ancient home that faded not." Then use Noldor. Exiles would be the exact replacement in sense.

DoV-02 Tun to Túna per Sil77

DoV-03 Côr or Kôr to Tirion per Sil77

DoV-04 Gods to Valar per Tolkiens later general avoiding Gods for the Valar

DoV-05 Teleri from BoLT to Vanyar

DoV-06 Maidros and Maedhros to Maeðros per HoME X

DoV-07 Inwe to Ingwë

DoV-08Nornore to Eonwë

So fare the general and regular changes.
Now to the changes needed in the text:

Quote:

6 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Finwë and Míriel
§1 Now the three kindreds of the Eldar were gathered …
…
§3 Míriel was the name of his mother. Her hair was … in the fields of Yavanna. Therefore she was called Serindë.[Footnote: Míriel Serindë: that is DoV-FM-01 {Byrde Míriel (}Míriel the Broideress{): quoth Ælfwine}.]
§4 The love of Finwë and Míriel was great and full of joy, for it began in the Blessed Realm and in days of mirth. But in the bearing of her son she was consumed in spirit and body, so that almost all strength seemed to have passed from her; and when she had named him DoV-FM-02 <FM2 [Footnote: According to the custom of the Eldar. In addition to their 'true names', which were their father-name and their chosen name, they often received other or 'added names'. Of these the most important were the mother-names. Mothers often gave to their children special names of their own choosing, the most notable of which were 'names of insight'. In the hour of birth, or on some other occasion of moment, a mother might give to her child a name that referred to dominant features of its nature as she perceived it, or that came of foresight and referred to its special fate. Names of this kind might become more widely used than the father-name (which was often only the name of the father repeated or modified); and if the child adopted a mother-name as a 'chosen name', then it became also a 'true name'. Curufinwë took Fëanáro as his chosen name. Fëanor is the form that this name took in the later speech of the Exiled Noldor.]> she said to Finwë: 'Never again shall I bear a child, for strength that would have nourished the life of many has gone forth into Fëanor.'
§5 Finwë was greatly grieved, …
…
§21 But the spirit of Míriel remained silent. Mandos therefore accepted her choice, and she went then to the Halls of Waiting appointed to the Eldar and was left in peace.[Footnote: But it is said that after a time DoV-FM-03 <FM2; follwing Note 3 {But after a while Nienna came to Manwë, and she said: 'Lord of Aman, it is now made clear that the death of Míriel was an evil of Arda Marred, for with the coming hither of the Eldar the Shadow hath found an entrance even into Aman. Nonetheless Aman remaineth the Realm of the Valar, wherein thy will is paramount. Though the death of severance may find out the Eldar in thy realm, yet one thing cometh not to it, and shall not: and that is deforming and decay. Behold then! The body of Míriel lieth unmarred, even as a fair house that awaiteth its mistress, who hath gone upon a journey. In this at least, therefore, her death differeth from death in Middle-earth: that for the houseless fea a fair body is still ready, and rebirth is not the only gate by which it may return to life, if thou wilt grant her leave and give her thy blessing. Moreover the body has lain long now in repose in the peace of Lóriën; and must not the rulers of Arda have respect even to bodies and all fair forms? Why should it lie idle and untenanted, when doubtless it would not now afflict the fëa with weariness, but rejoice it with hope of doing?'
But this Mandos forbade. 'Nay,' said he, 'if Míriel were rehoused, she would be again among the Living, and Finwë would have two spouses alive in Aman. Thus would the Statute be contravened, and my Doom set at naught. And injury would be done also to Indis, who used the liberty of the Statute, but would now by its breach be deprived, for Finwë would desire to return to his former spouse.'
But Nienna said to Mandos: 'Nay! Let Míriel have the joy of her body and of the use of its skills in which she delighted, and dwell not for ever remembering only her brief life before, and its ending in weariness! Can she not be removed from the Halls of Waiting, and taken into the service of Vairë? If she cometh never thence, nor seeketh to walk among the Living, why shouldst thou hold the Doom set at naught, or fear for griefs that might arise? Pity must have a part in Justice.'
But Mandos was unmoved. And the body of Míriel lay at rest in Lóriën, until} the escape of Melkor the Marrer and the Darkening of Valinor{. In that evil time} Finwë was slain{ by the Marrer himself, and his body was burned as by lightning stroke and was destroyed}. Then Míriel and Finwë met again in Mandos, and{ lo!} Míriel was glad of the meeting, and her sadness was lightened; and the will in which she had been set was released.
And when she learned of Finwë all that had befallen since her departure (for she had given no heed to it, nor asked tidings, until then) she was greatly moved; and she said to Finwë in her thought: 'I erred in leaving thee and our son, or at the least in not soon returning after brief repose; for had I done so he might have grown wiser. But the children of Indis shall redress his errors and therefore I am glad that they should have being, and Indis hath my love. How should I bear grudge against one who received what I rejected and cherished what I abandoned. Would that I might set all the Tale of our people and of thee and thy children in a tapestry of many colours, as a memorial brighter than memory! For though I am cut off now from the world, and I accept that Doom as just, I would still watch and record all that befalls those dear to me, and their offspring also. {[Added:} I feel again the call of my body and its skills.{]}'
And Finwë said to Vairë: 'Dost thou hear the prayer and desire of Míriel? Why will Mandos refuse this redress of her griefs, that her being may not be void and without avail? Behold! I instead will abide with Mandos for ever, and so make amends. For surely, if I remain unhoused, and forgo life in Arda, then his Doom will be inviolate.'
{'So thou may deem,' answered Vairë; 'yet Mandos is stern, and he will not readily permit a vow to be revoked. Also he will consider not only Míriel and thee, but Indis and thy children, whom thou seemest to forget, pitying now Míriel only.'
'Thou are unjust to me in thy thought,' said Finwë. 'It is unlawful to have two wives, but one may love two women, each differently, and without diminishing one love by another. Love of Indis did not drive out love of Míriel; so now pity for Míriel doth not lessen my heart's care for Indis. But Indis parted from me without death. I had not seen her for many years, and when the Marrer smote me I was alone. She hath dear children to comfort her, and her love, I deem, is now most for Ingoldo. His father she may miss; but not the father of Feanaro! But above all her heart now yearns for the halls of Ingwë and the peace of the Vanyar, far from the strife of the Noldor. Little comfort should I bring her, if I returned; and the lordship of the Noldor hath passed to my sons.'}
But when Mandos was approached he said to Finwë: 'It is well that thou desirest not to return, for this I should have forbidden, until the present griefs are long passed. But it is better still that thou hast made this offer, to deprive thyself, of thy free will, and out of pity for another. This is a counsel of healing, out of which good may grow.'
Therefore{ when Nienna came to him and renewed her prayer for Míriel,} he consented, accepting the abnegation of Finwë as her ransom. Then the fëa of Míriel was released and came before Manwë and received his blessing; and she went then to Lóriën and re-entered her body{, and awoke again, as one that cometh out of a deep sleep; and she arose and her body was refreshed. But after she had stood in the twilight of Lóriën a long while in thought, remembering her former life, and all the tidings that she had learned, her}. Her heart was still sad, and she had no desire to return to her own people. Therefore she went to the doors of the House of Vairë and prayed to be admitted; and this prayer was granted{, although in that House none of the Living dwelt nor have others ever entered it in the body. But Míriel was accepted by Vairë and became her chief handmaid; and all tidings of the Noldor down the years from their beginning were brought to her, and she wove them in webs historial, so fair and skilled that they seemed to live, imperishable, shining with a light of many hues fairer than are known in Middle-earth. This labour Finwë is at times permitted to look upon. And still she is at work, though her name has been changed. For now she is named Fíriel, which to the Eldar signifies 'She that died', and also 'She that sighed'. As fair as the webs of Fíriel is praise that is given seldom even to works of the Eldar.}> {she was permitted to return to the house of Vairë}, and there it was her part to record in web and broidery all the histories of the Kin of Finwë and the deeds of the Noldor.] Nonetheless Mandos declared that a space of twelve years should pass between the declaration of the will of the Dead and the pronouncement of the doom of disunion.
…
§23 It came to pass that after three years more Finwë took as second wife Indis the fair. She was in all ways unlike Míriel. She was not of the Noldor but of the Vanyar, being the DoV-FM-04 [daughter of the] sister of Ingwë; and she was golden-haired and tall and exceedingly swift of foot. She did not labour with her hands, …
…
§27 In one year from their meeting upon the Mountain Finwë, King of the Noldor, wedded Indis, DoV-FM-05 sister[-daughter] of Ingwë; and the Vanyar and Noldor for the most part rejoiced. In Indis was first proved true the saying: The loss of one may be the gain of another; but this saying also she found true: The house remembers the builder, though others may dwell in it after. For Finwë loved her dearly, and was glad again; and she bore him DoV-FM-06 {five}[four] children whom he loved;[Footnote: Findis, Fingolfin, DoV-FM-07 {Finvain}[Írien] {, [Finarphin >]}[ and] Finarfin{ and Faniel: three}[:two] daughters, and two sons (Fingolfin and Finarfin).] yet the shadow of Míriel did not depart from the house of Finwë, nor from his heart; and of all whom he loved Fëanor had ever the chief share of his thought.
…
7 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Fëanor and the unchaining of Melkor
§46c DoV-UM-01 <LQ And Fëanor grew swiftly as if a secret fire were kindled within him. and he was tall and fair of face and masterful, DoV-UM-02 <Sil77 his eyes piercingly bright and his hair raven-dark;> and he became of all the Noldor the most subtle of heart and of mind, and the most skilled of hand. He it was that in his youth, bettering the work of Rumil, made those letters which bear his name, and which ever since the Eldar have used; yet this was the least of his works. For he it was that first of the Noldor discovered how gems greater and brighter than those of the Earth might be made with skill. And the first gems that Fëanor devised were white and colourless, but being set under starlight they would blaze with blue and white fires brighter than Helluin. And other crystals he made, wherein things far away could be seen small but clear, as with the eyes of the Eagles of Manwë. Seldom were the hand and mind of Fëanor at rest.>
While still in early youth Fëanor wedded Nerdanel, …
…
Now even while Fëanor and the craftsmen of the Noldor wrought with delight, foreseeing no end to their labours, and while the sons of Indis grew to manhood, the Noontide of Valinor was drawing to its close. DoV-UM-03 <LQ For it came to pass that Melkor, as the Valar decreed, had dwelt for three ages in the duress of Mandos, alone. And when he had suffered that bondage, as the Valar had promised, he was brought again before them in conclave. He looked then upon the bliss and glory of the Valar, and malice was in his heart; he looked upon the fair Children of Ilúvatar that sat at the feet of the gods, and hatred filled him; he looked upon the wealth of bright gems and lusted for them; but he hid his thoughts and postponed his vengeance.>
§48 Before the gates of Valmar Melkor abased himself at the feet of Manwë and sued for pardon, promising that, if he might be made but the least of the free folk of Valinor, he would aid the Valar in all their deeds, and most of all in the healing of the many hurts that he had DoV-UM-04 {wrought and now would work no more}<LQ done to the world>. And Nienna aided his prayer, but Mandos was silent. Then Manwë granted him pardon; but the Valar would not yet suffer him to depart from their sight and vigilance. He was given, therefore, a humble dwelling within the gates of the city, and put on trial; and he was not permitted to go more than one league from Valmar, save by the leave of Manwë and with a guardian at his side. But fair-seeming were all the words and deeds of Melkor in that time, and both Valar and Eldar had much profit from his aid.> Therefore after a time Manwë gave him leave to go freely about the land. …
…
8 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
§49 Most fair of all was Melkor's countenance to the Eldar, …
…
§53d Then Fingolfin rose and said: 'I will release my brother.' But Fëanor spoke no word in answer; and when he had stood silent before the Valar for a while, he turned and left the council and departed from Valmar. At once he returned to Túna, and before the term of seven days that was set, he gathered his goods and his treasures and left the city and went far away. With him went his sons, and Finwë his father, who would not be parted from him, in fault or guiltless, and some others also of the Noldor. But Nerdanel would not go with him, and she asked leave to abide with Indis, whom she had ever esteemed, though this had been little to the liking of Fëanor. DoV-UN-01 <BoLT 1; VI A little stream, and its name was Híri, ran down from the hills, northward of the opening to the coast where {Kor}[Tirion] was built, and it wandered thence across the plain no one knew whither. Maybe it found the Outer Seas, for {north of the roots of Silpion}> {Northward}[northward] in Valinor, in the hills near to the halls of Mandos, <BoLT 1; VI it dived into the earth and there was a rugged place and a rock-ringed dale; and here the DoV-UN-02 {Noldoli}[Fëanorians] purposed to abide, or rather to await the passing of DoV-UN-03 {wrath from Manwe's heart}[the twelve years], for in no way as yet would they accept the thought of leaving {Kor}[Tirion] for ever.
Caves they made in the walls of that dale, and thither they bore their wealth of gems, of gold and silver and fair things; but their ancient homes in {Kor}[Tirion] were empty of their voices, filled only with their paintings and their books of lore>. Fëanor and his sons made a strong place and a treasury at Formenos, DoV-UN-04 as that dale was named, and they laid in hoard a multitude of gems, and weapons also: they did not put aside the swords that Fëanor had made. But Fingolfin now ruled the Noldor in Túna; and thus the very words of Melkor seemed to be fulfilled (though it was Fëanor who had by his own deeds brought this thing to pass); and the bitterness that Melkor had sown endured, even though his lies had been made manifest. Long afterward it lived still between Fëanor and the sons of Indis.
…
9 Of the Darkening of Valinor
§55 Now the Valar were sitting in council before the gates of Valmar, …
…
§58 Now it was a time of festival, as Melkor knew well. In Aman all tides and seasons were at the will of the Valar, and there was no winter of death; but even as it was the delight of the Valar to clothe themselves in the forms of the Children of Ilúvatar,[Footnote: As is told in the ‘Ainulindalë'.] so also they would eat and drink and gather the fruits of Yavanna, and share the bounty of the Earth which under Eru they had made.
Therefore Yavanna set times for the flowering and the ripening of all growing things in Valinor: upspringing, blooming, and seed-time. And after the coming of the First-born Children, the Eldar, at these times they made feasts, at which all the dwellers in Aman would assemble in mirth. The greatest of the feasts was at the first gathering of fruits, and this was held DoV-DV-01 [in Valimar and ]upon Taniquetil; for Manwë decreed that at this time all should join in the praise of Eru Ilúvatar, and the peoples of Valinor, Valar, Maiar, and Eldar, poured forth their joy in music and song.
§58a DoV-DV-02 {This day}[These days] had now come once more, and Manwë prepared a feast greater than any that had been held since the entry of the Eldar into Aman. For though the escape of Melkor portended toils and sorrows to come, and indeed none could tell what further hurts would be done to Arda, ere he could be subdued again, at this time Manwë desired to unite all his people once more in joy, healing all that was amiss, and strengthening them with the blessing of Eru to hold ever in heart the hope of Arda Unmarred. He bade all come who would, but the Noldor above all; for he hoped that there they would put aside the griefs that lay between their lords, and forget utterly the lies of their Enemy. Therefore he sent a messenger to Formenos, saying: 'Fëanor son of Finwë, come and do not deny my bidding! In my love thou remainest and wilt be honoured in my hall.'
DoV-DV-03 <BoLT 1; VI {Gods}[Valar] and Elves made ready to celebrate it most gloriously. Pomps there were and long processions of the Elves, dancing and singing, that wound from {Kor}[Tirion] to Valmar's gates. A road had been laid against this festival from the westward gate of {Kor}[Tirion] even to the turrets of the mighty arch which opened in the walls of Valmar northward towards the Trees. Of white marble it was and many a gentle stream flowing from the far mountains crossed its path. Here it would leap into slender bridges marvellously fenced with delicate balustrades that shone like pearls; scarcely did these clear the water, so that lilies of great beauty growing upon the bosom of the streams that fared but gently in the plain thrust their wide blossoms about its borders and iris marched along its flanks; for by cunning delving runnels of clearest water were made to flow from stream to stream bordering that whole long way with the cool noise of rippling water. At places mighty trees grew on either side, or at places the road would open to a glade and fountains spring by magic high into the air for the refreshment of all who sped that way.
Now came the {Teleri}[Vanyar] led by the white-robed people of DoV-DV-04 {the Inwir}[Ingwë], and the throbbing of their congregated harps beat the air most sweetly; and after them went the {Noldoli}[Noldor] DoV-DV-05 mingling once more with their own dear folk by Manwe's clemency, that his festival might be duly kept, but the music that their viols and instruments awoke was now more sweetly sad than ever before.{ And last came the people of the shores, and their piping blent with voices brought the sense of tides and murmurous waves and the wailing cry of the coast-loving birds thus inland deep upon the plain.}
Then was all that host marshalled before the gate of Valmar, and at the word and sign from {Inwe}[Ingwë] as one voice they burst in unison into the Song of Light. This had DoV-DV-06 {Lirillo}[Salmar] written and taught them, and it told of the longing of the Elvesfor light, of their dread journey through the dark world led by the desire of the Two Trees, and sang of their utmost joy beholding the faces of the {Gods}[Valar] and their renewed desire once more to enter Valmar and tread the Valar's blessed courts. Then did the gates of Valmar open and {Nornore}[Eonwë] bid them enter, and all that bright company passed through.
There Varda met them, standing amid the companies of the DoV-DV-07 {Manir and the Suruli}[Maiar], and all the {Gods}[Valar] made them welcome, and feasts there were in all the great halls thereafter.
Now their custom was on the third day to robe themselves all in white and blue and ascend to the heights of Taniquetil, and there would Manwe speak to them as he thought fit of the Music of the Ainur and the glory of Iluvatar, and of things to be and that had been.> DoV-DV-08 <BoLT 1;VI And on that day would {Kor}[Tirion] and Valmar be silent and still, but the roof of the world and the slope of Taniquetil shine with the gleaming raiment of the {Gods}[Valar] and Elves, and all the mountains echo with their speech - but afterward on the last day of merriment the {Gods}[Valar] would come to {Kor}[Tirion] and sit upon the slopes of its bright hill, gazing in love upon that slender town, and thereafter blessing it in the name of Ilúvatar would depart ere Silpion came to bloom; and so would end the days of DoV-DV-09 {Double Mirth}[mirth].
§58b DoV-DV-10 {There}[On the third day there] came the Vanyar, and there came the Noldor of Túna, and the Maiar were gathered together, and the Valar were arrayed in their beauty and majesty; and they sang before Manwë and Varda in the halls of Taniquetil, or played and danced upon the green slopes of the Mountain that looked west to the Trees. In that day the streets of Valmar were empty, and the stairs of Túna were silent, and all the land lay sleeping in peace. Only the Teleri beyond the mountains still sang upon the shores of the Sea; for they reeked little of seasons or times, and gave no thought to the cares of the King of Arda, or to the shadow that had fallen upon Valinor; for it had not touched them, as yet.
…
Of the Rape of the Silmaril
§1 When the Trees should have flowered for yet one more day, …
§2 For Yavanna spoke before the Valar, saying DoV-RS-01 {...}<AAm : 'The Light of the Trees hath gone hence, and liveth now only in the jewels of Fëanor. Foresighted was he. Lo! for those even who are mightiest there is some deed that they may accomplish once, and once only. The Light of the Trees I brought into being, and can do so never again within Ea. Yet had I but a little of that Light, I could recall life to the Trees, ere their roots die; and then our hurt should be healed, and the malice of Melkor be confounded.'
§3 And Manwë spoke, and said, ‘Hearest thou, Fëanor, the words of Yavanna? Wilt thou grant what she would ask?'
And there was a long silence, but Fëanor DoV-RS-02 {answered no word}<LQ2 made no answer>.
Then Tulkas cried: ‘Speak, O Noldo, yea or nay! But who shall deny Yavanna? And did not the light of the Silmarils come from her work in the beginning?'
But Aule the Maker said, Be not hasty! We ask a greater thing than thou knowest. Let him have peace yet a while.'>
§4 But Fëanor spoke then, and cried bitterly DoV-RS-03 {...}<AAm : 'Verily for the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only. And in that deed his heart shall rest. Mayhap I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make their like; and if they be broken, then broken will be my heart, and I shall DoV-RS-04 {die}<LQ2 be slain>: first of all the Children of Eru.'
§5 'Not the first,' quoth Mandos, …
…
10 Of the Thieves’ Quarrel
§13 Meanwhile, it is told, Morgoth escaping from the pursuit of the Valar came to the wastes of Araman. …
…
§19 Then Ungoliant quailed, and she turned to flight, belching black vapours to cover her; but the Balrogs pursued her with whips of flame into the Mountains of Shadow,[Footnote: Eryd Wethrin on the borders of Beleriand.] until Morgoth recalled them. Then her webs were shorn asunder, and Morgoth was released, and he returned to Angband.
§20 But Ungoliant went into Beleriand, and there dwelt for a time beneath the Eryd {Orgoroth [> }Gorgoroth{]}, in the dark valley that was after called Nan Dungortheb[Footnote: The Valley of Dreadful Death.] because of the horror that she bred there. But when she had healed her hurts as best she could, and had spawned there a foul brood, she passed away. For there were other evil creatures of spider-form that had dwelt there since the days of the delving of Angband; and she mated with them and devoured them. But whither she went after no tale tells. It is said that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine she devoured herself at last.
§21 Thus ended the Thieves' Quarrel; and the fear of Yavanna that the Silmarils would be swallowed up and fall into nothingness did not come to pass. But they remained in the power of Morgoth.
Now Morgoth, having achieved his malice against Valinor, and escaped from bondage, gathered again all his servants that he could find; and through all the North ran the news that he had returned. From near and far, from the ruins of Utumno, and from deep dales and shadows under the mountains and from all dark and hidden places they crept back to him.
Then swiftly they began to delve anew the vast vaults of Angband and to uplift its pillared halls of stone amid smoke and fire, and above them were reared the reeking towers of Thangorodrim. DoV-TQ-01 <AAm There countless became the hosts of his beasts and his demons; and thence there now came forth in hosts beyond count the fell race of the Orkor, that had grown and multiplied in the bowels of the earth like a plague. These creatures Morgoth bred in envy and mockery of the Eldar. In form they were like unto the Children of Ilúvatar, yet foul to look upon; for they were bred in hatred, and with hatred they were filled; and he loathed the things that he had wrought, and with loathing they served him. Their voices were as the clashing of stones, and they laughed not save only at torment and cruel deeds. The Glamhoth, host of tumult, the Noldor called them. (Orcs we may name them; for in days of old they were strong and fell as demons. Yet they were not of demon kind, but children of earth corrupted by Morgoth, and they could be slain or destroyed by the valiant with weapons of war. {[But indeed a darker tale some yet tell in Eressea, saying that the Orcs were verily in their beginning of the Quendi themselves, a kindred of the Avari unhappy whom Morgoth cozened, and then made captive, and so enslaved them, and so brought them utterly to ruin.[Footnote: Quoth Ælfwine.] For, saith Pengolod, Melkor could never since the Ainulindalë make of his own aught that had life or the semblance of life, and still less might he do so after his treachery in Valinor and the fullness of his own corruption.]}
§128 Dark now fell the shadow on Beleriand, as elsewhere is told; but in Angband Morgoth forged for himself a great crown of iron; and he called himself King of the World. In token of which he set the Silmarils in his crown. His evil hands were burned black by the touch of those hallowed jewels, and black they have been ever since; and he was never again free from the pain of the burning DoV-TQ-02 <QS , and the anger of the pain>. The crown he never took from his head, though its weight became a weariness unto torment; and never but once only, while his realm lasted, did he depart for a while secretly from his domain in the North. And once only also did he himself wield weapon, until the Last Battle. For now, more than in the days of Utumno ere his pride was humbled, his hatred devoured him, and in the domination of his servants and the inspiring of them with lust of evil, he spent his spirit. Nonetheless his majesty as one of the Valar long remained, though turned to terror, and before his face all save the mightiest sank into a dark pit of fear.>

Some comments:

DoV-FM-01: Ælfwine and his Old English is out, so we will give only the modernisation in the Footnote

DoV-FM-02: Following the note to LQ 2

DoV-FM-03: I have given her the appropriate passages from Laws in full to show how I developed the shorter footnote.

DoV-FM-04 to DoV-FM-07: Following the information from The Shibboleth of Feanor.

DoV-UM-01: In this part LQ 2 is given only in notes. Therefore the text is here reconstructed.

DoV-UM-02: In addition to the reconstruction I added “his eyes piercingly bright” from Sil 77 I do not know were this comes from so.

DoV-UM-03 & DoV-UM-04: Reconstruction again.

DoV-UN-01: When we add the description of the feast later, I think we should also use the description of Formenos here.

DoV-UN-02: Is “Fëanorians” a word useable? If not “Fëanor and his following” will work.

DoV-UN-03: I don’t see any wrath in Manwe in the later story.

DoV-UN-04: A link is needed here since otherwise the name could not be understood.

DoV-DV-01 & DoV-DV-02: Addition to harmonise the text with the add from BoLT.

DoV-DV-03: This addition from BoLT was wish from Lindil and I agree that it is worth considering.

DoV-DV-04: I do not know if later we had a replacement for the leading house of the Vanyar.

DoV-DV-05: Here I did not change anything, but I see a need for discussion. Is he phrase “mingling once more with their own dear folk by Manwe’s clemency, that his festival might be duly kept” useable? Lindil skip it.

DoV-DV-06: Lindil added here the redundant information that Salmar made the conches of Ulmo. But I don’t think that is necessary.

DoV-DV-07: Manir and Suruli most go, so I used the wider Maiar instead. Lindil skip that phrase completely.

DoV-DV-08: If the addition from BoLT is useable at all than this later part of the feast should be taken as well.

DoV-DV-09: “Double Mirth” is the name of the feast and is no longer valid so “days of mirth” must suffice.

DoV-DV-10: Harmonisation with the BoLT part again.

DoV-RS-01 to DoV-RS-04: Reconstruction of the text.

DoV-TQ-01: The LQ 2 breaks of before the end of the chapter is reached. Therefore I added the last part from AAm.

DoV-TQ-02: This is missing in [b[AAm[/b] so I took it out of the QS.

Respectfully
Findegil

Maédhros · 05-01-2006, 05:26 PM

Thanks Findegil, and yes I'm still around. I was wondering if you would be able to send to me this draft for me to look over. It is not easy to read it in the Private Forum. I think that I had already have some work in this part that I want to compare it, so that is why I have asked lindil a long time ago.

Maédhros · 05-01-2006, 06:58 PM

Here are some changes that I would like to introduce:
DoV-UM-02.5A

Quote:

He it was that in his youth, bettering the work of Rumil, made those letters which bear his name, and which ever since the Eldar have used; yet this was the least of his works. For he it was that first of the Noldor discovered how gems greater and brighter than those of the Earth might be made with skill. And the first gems that Fëanor devised were white and colourless, but being set under starlight they would blaze with blue and white fires brighter than Helluin. And other crystals he made, wherein things far away could be seen small but clear, as with the eyes of the Eagles of Manwë. <VT39 He is said also, {being then in his youth before the days of his discontent,} to have learned mostly from Aulë “more than any other of the Eldar in Arda” of the language of the Valar. {This he got mostly from Aule}> Seldom were the hand and mind of Fëanor at rest.

I wonder if we should replace the Mahtan name with Sarmo as with note 61 of the Shibboleth. I think that because the name Sarmo comes with an ?, we should not change it.

DoV-UM-02.5B

Quote:

Her father, Mahtan, <SF [who] was most widely known as Urundil 'copper-lover' >, was a great smith, and among those of the Noldor most dear to the heart of Aulë, <SF for he was an Aulendur and entered into {Aulë’s} [the Vala’s] service>. <SF He usually wore a band of copper about his head. His hair was not as dark or black as was that of most of the Ñoldor, but brown, and had glints of coppery-red in it. > Of Mahtan Nerdanel learned much of crafts that women of the Noldor seldom used: the making of things of metal and stone.

DoV-UM-02.5C

Quote:

Seven sons she bore to Fëanor, and it is not recorded in the histories of old that any others of the Eldar had so many children. <SF Of {Nerdanel's}[their] seven children the oldest, and the twins (a very rare thing among the Eldar) had [brown] hair [with coppery-red in it] {of this kind}. The eldest also wore a copper circlet.> With her wisdom at first she restrained Fëanor when the fire of his heart burned too hot; but his later deeds grieved her and they became estranged.

DoV-UN-00

Quote:

Most fair of all was Melkor's countenance to the Eldar, and he aided them in many works, if they would let him. The Vanyar indeed held him in suspicion, for they dwelt in the light of the Trees and were content; and to the Teleri he gave little heed, deeming them of little worth, tools too weak for his designs. But the Noldor took delight in the hidden knowledge that he could reveal to them{;}<OK {In Valinor} [for] Melkor used the Quenya with such mastery that all the Eldar were amazed, for his use could not be bettered, scarce equalled even, by the poets and the loremasters"{.}[,]> and some hearkened to words that it would have been better for them never to have heard.

This is from Osanwe-kenta.

DoV-DV-11

Quote:

One thing only marred the hope of Manwë. Fëanor came indeed, for he read the message of Manwë as a command; but Finwë would not come and remained in Formenos, and with him were the sons of Fëanor. For said Finwë: 'While the ban lasts upon Fëanor, my son, that he may not go to Túna, I hold myself unkinged, and I will not meet my people <AA , nor those that rule in my stead> .' And Fëanor did not come in raiment of festival, and he wore no ornament, neither silver nor gold nor any gem; and he denied the sight of the Silmarils to the Valar and the Eldar, and left them in Formenos, locked in a chamber of iron.

DoV-FM-08

Quote:

§28 The wedding of the father {was not pleasing to} <SF filled > Fëanor <SF with anger and resentment>; and though it did not lessen the love between them, Fëanor <SF felt that Míriel was condemned to remain for ever discarnate, so that he could never again visit her or speak with her, unless he himself should die. This grieved him, and he grudged the happiness of Finwë and Indis, and was unfriendly to their children, even before they were born.>{had no great love for Indis or her children.} As soon as he might he lived apart from them, exploring the land of Aman, or busying himself with the lore and the crafts in which he delighted.

I will reply to your changes Findegil, when I have the whole text.

Findegil · 05-03-2006, 04:10 PM

Gerneral remark:
I would like to re-name your references. In XX-YY-ZZA, XX-YY-ZZb and so on the "A" should refer to different version of the same change. But that is not the case in your suggestions. Therefor let make it:

DoV-UM-02.5A => DoV-UM-02.2
DoV-UM-02.5B => DoV-UM-02.5
DoV-UM-02.5C => DoV-UM-02.7
DoV-UN-00 => DoV-UM-00.5 (I do'nt like zero to much.)

Now to your suggestions;
DoV-UM-02.5A => DoV-UM-02.2: Agreed, but why do we delet a part of this?

DoV-UM-02.5B => DoV-UM-02.5: Agreed.

DoV-UM-02.5C => DoV-UM-02.7: Agreed.

DoV-UN-00 => DoV-UM-00.5: Agreed.

Mathan => Sarmo: I second this change but have to lock deper into the sources. I would like also to have Aiwendils input here.

Maedhros I tried to send you a complet set of all TftE text but it failed. See your mail about this.

Respectfully
Findegil

Maédhros · 05-05-2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Maedhros I tried to send you a complet set of all TftE text but it failed. See your mail about this.

Thanks, I received it and it is great.

Quote:

DoV-UM-02.5A => DoV-UM-02.2: Agreed, but why do we delet a part of this?

I deleted it because in the first part of the paragraph, there is a statement that he was in his youth, but if you and Aiwendil feel that it is ok to keep it, that's ok with me.

DoV-FM-00.5

§3 Míriel was the name of his mother. Her hair was like silver; and she was slender as a white flower in the grass. Soft and sweet was her voice, and she sang as she worked, like rippling water, in music without words. For her hands were more skilled to make things fine and delicate than any other hands even among the Noldor. By her the craft of needles was devised; and if but one fragment of the broideries of Míriel were seen in Middle-earth it would be held dearer than a king's realm; for the richness of her devices and the fire of their colours were as manifold and as bright as the wealth of leaf and flower and wing in the fields of Yavanna. Therefore she was called Serindë <SF a name which she had indeed already been given as a 'mother-name'. >.+
It was the only reference that we have of Míriel having a mother name.

Quote:

Mathan => Sarmo: I second this change but have to lock deper into the sources. I would like also to have Aiwendils input here.

I will post here the whole note for ease of reference:
From Shibboleth of Fëanor:

Quote:

[On a separate page written at the same time is a note on the father of Nerdanel (Fëanor's wife);
Nerdanel's father was an 'Aulendil' [> 'Aulendur'], and became a great smith. He loved copper, and set it above gold. His name was [space; pencilled later Sarmo?], but he was most widely known as Urundil 'copper-lover'. He usually wore a band of copper about his head. His hair was not as dark or black as was that of most of the Ñoldor, but brown, and had glints of coppery-red in it. Of Nerdanel's seven children the oldest, and the twins (a very rare thing among the Eldar) had hair of this kind. The eldest also wore a copper circlet.
A note is appended to Aulendur:
'Servant of Aule': sc. one who was devoted to that Vala. It was applied especially to those persons, or families, among the Ñoldor who actually entered Aule's service, and who in return received instruction from him.
A second note on this page comments on the name Urundil:
RUN 'red, glowing', most often applied to things like embers, hence adjective runya, Sindann ruin '"fiery" red'. The Eldar had words for some metals, because under Orome's instruction they had devised weapons against Morgoth's servants especially on the March, but the only ones that appear in all Eldarin languages were iron, copper, gold and silver (ANGA, URUN, MALAT, KYELEP).
Earlier Nerdanel's father, the great smith, had been named Mahtan (see X.272, 277), and he was so called in the published Silmarillion. For earlier statements concerning the arming of the Eldar on the Great Journey see X.276-7, 281.]

Findegil · 05-06-2006, 03:11 PM

I know that this might be again a endless discussion but I would take up the Footnote to Aulendur along with passage about Mahtan/ Sarmo.

Sarmo is the right choice for his name for me.

Respectfully
Findegil

Maédhros · 05-08-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

know that this might be again a endless discussion but I would take up the Footnote to Aulendur along with passage about Mahtan/ Sarmo.

Do you mean like this:

Quote:

Her father, Mahtan, <SF [who] was most widely known as Urundil 'copper-lover' >, was a great smith, and among those of the Noldor most dear to the heart of Aulë, <SF for he was an Aulendur* and entered into {Aulë’s} [the Vala’s] service>. <SF He usually wore a band of copper about his head. His hair was not as dark or black as was that of most of the Ñoldor, but brown, and had glints of coppery-red in it. > Of Mahtan Nerdanel learned much of crafts that women of the Noldor seldom used: the making of things of metal and stone.

* 'Servant of Aule': sc. one who was devoted to that Vala. It was applied especially to those persons, or families, among the Ñoldor who actually entered Aule's service, and who in return received instruction from him.

Or did you have something different in mind?

Regarding Sarmo, I too think that we should use Sarmo, but the thing that makes me wonder is the ? in the end of the name. That is why I hesitate to change it.

DoV-UM-02.1

Quote:

During that time Fëanor dwelt in the care of his father. Soon he began to show forth the skills in hand and mind of both Finwë and Míriel. As he grew from childhood he became ever more like Finwë in stature and countenance{, but in mood he resembled Míriel rather}. <SF Fëanor loved his mother dearly, though except in obstinacy their characters were widely different. He was not gentle. He was proud and hot-tempered, and opposition to his will he met not with the quiet steadfastness of his mother but with fierce resentment. He was restless in mind and body, though like Míriel he could become wholly absorbed in works of the finest skill of hand; but he left many things unfinished.> His will was strong and determined, and he pursued all his purposes both eagerly and steadfastly. Few ever changed his courses by counsel, none by force.

Aiwendil · 05-09-2006, 12:06 PM

I agree about Sarmo (actually, I could have sworn we discussed this before, but I could not find any such thread). It seems fairly clear to me that Sarmo is the later name - and even if it was followed by a question mark, it indicates that "Mahtan" had been rejected (or forgotten, which I suppose amounts to the same thing).

I also have no problem with the footnote.

See, Findegil, not an endless discussion - unless Maedhros objects.

Findegil · 05-09-2006, 03:00 PM

Nice. The Footnote is as I wanted it.

DoV-UM-02.1 Agreed.

Anything else?

Respectfully
Findegil

Maédhros · 05-09-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

I agree about Sarmo (actually, I could have sworn we discussed this before, but I could not find any such thread). It seems fairly clear to me that Sarmo is the later name - and even if it was followed by a question mark, it indicates that "Mahtan" had been rejected (or forgotten, which I suppose amounts to the same thing).

Wow, I didn't think that you would agree with that. Excellent.

Quote:

I also have no problem with the footnote.

Wow, does that mean that we have no issues remaining in this chapter?

I have now read the whole chapter that Findegil sent me and the additions from The Theft of Melko from the Book of Lost Tales are great. I have only found little things such as the missing dieresis of Aule, Ungoliant, and the replacement of Maeðros in a few instances.

Findegil · 05-10-2006, 02:24 PM

Seems we have done that quiet in a rush.

I will look for these "Scanos" as I name them (in comparision to typos). To aviod such failures as a missing replacment in future I have collected all the general changes agreed upon so far in on single thread. I will cintinue to add general changes as we go on with the editing.

Respectfully
Findegil

gondowe · 03-13-2011, 12:46 PM

I know you want to revise this chapter but before I forgot this, I want to point here a possible addition, perhaps like this:

Her father, {Mahtan}[Sarmo], <SF [who] was most widely known as Urundil 'copper-lover' >, was a great smith, and among those of the Noldor most dear to the heart of Aulë, <SF for he was an Aulendur and entered into {Aulë’s} [the Vala’s] service>. <SF He usually wore a band of copper about his head. His hair was not as dark or black as was that of most of the Ñoldor, but brown, and had glints of coppery-red in it. ><SF marginal note VT 41, And had beard, for althougth Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life. {Nerdanel's father}[This] was excepcional, {being}[for he was] only early in his second.> Of {Mahtan}[Sarmo] Nerdanel learned much of crafts that women of the Noldor seldom used: the making of things of metal and stone.

You can redact it better.

Greetings

Findegil · 03-14-2011, 08:53 AM

This is to be considered, since I do not see any other place for it. But is this information worth the interuption of the text?

Respectfuly
Findegil

Findegil · 08-25-2011, 09:44 AM

Locking into this again I found a better place for the information about Sarmo's beard:
Chapter 5 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië:

Quote:

Nelyafinwë /or shorter/ Nelyo /meaned /‘Finwë third’ in succession[footnote: his grandfather was Finwë, and his father Kurufinwë, first named Finwë also]. /His mother name was/ Maitimo 'well-shaped one': he was of beautiful bodily form. But he, and the youngest, inherited the rare red-brown hair of Nerdanel's kin, Her father had the epessë of rusco 'fox'. So Maitimo had as an epessë given by his brothers and other kin Russandol 'copper-top'.>< Nerdanel's father was an {'Aulendil' [> }'Aulendur'{]}[footnote: 'Servant of Aulë': sc. one who was devoted to that Vala. It was applied especially to those persons, or families, among the Ñoldor who actually entered Aulë's service, and who in return received instruction from him.], and became a great smith. He loved copper, and set it above gold. His name was {[space; pencilled later }Sarmo{?]}, but he was most widely known as Urundil 'copper-lover'. <SF marginal note VT 41, Nerdanel's father was excepcional, being only early in his second cycle of life and having a beard.>< SF marginal note VT 41 Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life.> He usually wore a band of copper about his head. His hair was not as dark or black as was that of most of the Ñoldor, but brown, and had glints of coppery-red in it. Of Nerdanel's seven children the oldest, and the twins (a very rare thing among the Eldar) had hair of this kind. The eldest also wore a copper circlet.> </The Sindarin form /{Maedros combines elements}[Maedron/ is a translation/ of Nelyafinwe's mother name: Maiti- (Commen Eldarin magiti- shapely, Sindarin maed){ and of the epesse russandol (C.E. russā, S. ross)}.>

Here in list of names and discriptions of Elves it does not interupt a narative. To avoid repeatiton i scipt DoV-UM-02.5 ( the addition of Sarmon being called Urundil).

Respectfuly
Findegil

Arvegil145 · 09-21-2015, 11:18 PM

What about the additions from "The Shibboleth of Fëanor" and the "Laws and Custom of the Eldar"?

Also, "The Converse of Manwë and Eru"? It would expand the sub-chapter "Of Finwë and Míriel" greatly.

P.S. In addition, in the "Shibboleth" it is said that Finwë sought the counsel of Manwë AFTER he and Indis had met and desired to get married.

Findegil · 09-22-2015, 04:05 AM

Laws and custom joined with The Converse of Manwë and Eru were in my 'plan' part of volume 3: THE LORE OF THE WISE.

As for farther additions from The Shibboleth of Fëanor: They are in part contradicting the Story line of The Later Silmarillion. Since I think (please cross check) that SF is the later source, we might have to change big parts of this chapter again.

Respectfully
Findegil

Arvegil145 · 09-22-2015, 02:43 PM

"Shibboleth" is certainly later. From around 1968. Problem is (perhaps not that much of a problem, if we manage to find a convincing solution) that the "Shibboleth" has the greater 144 solar years = 1 Valian year. So if Fëanor was born in YT 1169 and Míriel died in YT 1170, by that greater number, Fëanor could have still grown to an adult by the time of Míriel's death.

Of course, one could argue that if are going to take the lower number (9.58 solar years = 1 Valian year), Fëanor COULD (theoretically) have grown to an "adult", so to speak - c. 20 of our years is the greatest figure for Fëanor's age at the time of Míriel's death. However, it is said that the Elves do not reach their full physical stature until the age of 50, and are not fully mature until 100 years of age. Again, Fëanor could be an exception to the rule - he is, after all, called the "Spirit of Fire" by his mother, and it doesn't seem so unlikely (at least to me) that he could have achieved his full stature (at least physically) by this time.

Then again, you could also argue that by "fully grown" he was fully grown MENTALLY.

OR you could just abandon the notion of Elven children maturing more slowly than mortal children (physically).

In any case, there are many possible "solutions", and I think that the information given in the "Shibboleth" contains some vital character motivations behind Fëanor's later actions - especially his mother's use of "th" as opposed to the later general change to "s" - after all, the essay IS called the "Shibboleth of Fëanor".

Findegil · 09-25-2015, 08:29 AM

The change in the calculations of times is a more general point. We should probably discuss that in a thread of it own. In our text we can avoid being specific with any numbers of years or other units.

Since DoV realy is the first chapter that the project worked on conclusivly, a re-check for other possible additions especially from younger sources (as SF) is for sure needed. But for the time being I think the group has opened enough indeepth discussions. The detailed discussion of the possible merger of texts including [b]SF[7b] has to wait.

Respectfully
Findegil

ArcusCalion · 08-31-2017, 11:38 AM

Ok, I have read throught the proposed changes by Findegil and Maedhros, and I have some comments.

Of Finwe and Miriel

I have only two comments for this section. Firstly, I at first wondered why the (far more substantial) Statute of Finwe and Miriel text was not used throughout to greatly expand this section, but I noticed that the very same text is referenced in the chapter itself. This made me think that these additions were not added bc the Statute is to be included along with Laws and Customs in VOLUME III: THE LORE OF THE WISE. If this is so, then I wholeheartedly agree. If, however, this is not to be included later, then I see no reason not to give the much fuller accounts here.

Secondly, In DoV-FM-03 I was confused as to the reason for the inclusion of this portion of the Statute. As there were no other inclusions, this seemed odd as the singular exception, and indeed turns the footnote into a full page of text. In addition, there was no direction by Tolkien to include this account here, so I am confused as to why it was done.

Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor

in the paragraph of DoV-UM-03 there was a change to LQ that was left out of your version:

Quote:

He looked then upon the bliss and glory of the Valar, and malice was in his heart; he looked upon the fair Children of Ilúvatar that sat at the feet of the {gods}[Mighty], and hatred filled him;

More was also changed here, and I added a phrase from AAm:

Quote:

DoV-UM-04 {wrought and now would work no more. His prayer Niënna aided, but Mandos was silent.}<LQ done to the world. His prayer Niënna aided, but the others were silent. DoV-UM-04.2 < AAm and Ulmo’s heart misgave him.>>

Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor

I made an addition from AAm:

Quote:

Three jewels he made, and named them the Silmarils. {A living fire burned within them that} DoV-UM-04.3 < AAm But not until the End, when Fëanor shall return who perished when the Sun was young and sitteth now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until Sun passeth and Moon falls shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence within the walls of this world could mar or break it. Yet that crystal was to the Silmarils but as is the body to the Children of Ilúvatar: the house of its inner fire, that is within it and yet in all parts of it, and is its life. And the inner fire of the Silmarils> was blended of the Light of the Two Trees.

Another addition:

Quote:

Therefore, whenever he saw his chances, he began to sow a seed of falsehood and hints of evil among all who were open to his converse. But he did this with cunning, so that few who heard these lies ever took them from his own lips: DoV-UM-04.4 <AAm but he that sows lies in the end shall not lack of a harvest, and soon he may rest from toil indeed, while others reap and sow in his stead>[; and so] they passed from friend to friend,....

DoV-UN-02: I would change "Feanorians" to "People of Feanor"

Of the Darkening of Valinor

I just have a question. Is it Ungoliante or Ungoliant?

Also, in the LQ version, Ungoliant and Melkor split up, but in all others they remain together and kill the trees as a unit. is LQ the way to go?

Minor note:

Quote:

§58 Now it was a time of festival, as Melkor knew well. In Aman all tides and seasons were at the will of the Valar, and there was no winter of death; but even as it was the delight of the Valar to clothe themselves in the forms of the Children of Ilúvatar, {[Footnote: As is told in the ‘Ainulindalë'.]} so also they would eat and drink and gather the fruits of Yavanna, and share the bounty of the Earth which under Eru they had made.

I would remove the footnote here, as I believe that was actually mentioned in the Of the Beginning of Time chapter in our version.

DoV-DV-03: at the end of this paragraph is the bit:

Quote:

At places mighty trees grew on either side, or at places the road would open to a glade and fountains spring {by magic} high into the air for the refreshment of all who sped that way.

The italicized bit should be removed.

DoV-DV-05: This bit is odd, but it might be better to simply remove it. Feanor is the only one of the Noldor who would require the clemency of Manwe, and his presence is told later.

Of the Rape of the Silmarils

DoV-RS-04: The words "in Aman" should be added, as it is elsewhere said that the Elves had been killed in the hither lands, which is why Orome brought them weapons.

Of the Thieves' Quarrel

Looks good!

That was everything I saw, the rest looks good.

ArcusCalion · 10-01-2017, 07:38 PM

just putting in a reminder here that the Shibboleth additions about Sarmo must be removed, due to their inclusion in chapter 6.

In addition, the addition of the draining of Kullulin and Silindrin in the Darkening of Valinor section.

Findegil · 10-02-2017, 02:09 AM

And we have to remove Celeborn from the addition that descrips Galadriels stay in Aqualondë.

Respectfully
Findegil

ArcusCalion · 10-02-2017, 11:50 AM

Where was this addition made? I saw no post about it on this thread.

ArcusCalion · 10-03-2017, 10:57 AM

Also, I have been attempting to make a draft of the Shibboleth of Feanor text for Volume III and I belive it is too intertwined with the story itself to stand alone, as much therein is not used elsewhere. Therefore, I think we need to take up more of it in these chapters. In addition, there is something that the SF changed from the LQ version: Feanor was already full-grown by the time Miriel passed to Mandos. This changes many things in this, and also in the Laws and Customs.

Findegil · 10-05-2017, 06:08 PM

If I never posted this change here, than it was only in my private copy of the text that I added it, sorry for that. Nonetheless here is how I would deal with Galadriel in this chapter. Since Celeborn must be a Sindar per LotR we have to change DoV-UN-00.5:

Quote:

… though she did not perceive that the shadow of the same evil had fallen upon the minds of all the Noldor, and upon her own.>
DoV-UN-00.5 <UT She did indeed wish to depart from Valinor and to go into the wide world of Middle-earth for the exercise of her talents; for {"}being brilliant in mind and swift in action she had early absorbed all of what she was capable of the teaching which the Valar thought fit to give the Eldar,{"} and she felt confined in the tutelage of Aman. This desire of Galadriel's was, it seems, known to Manwë, and he had not forbidden her; but nor had she been given formal leave to depart. Pondering what she might do Galadriel's thoughts turned to the ships of the Teleri, and she went for a while to dwell with her mother's kindred in Alqualondë. DoV-UN-00.7{There she met Celeborn, who is here again a Telerin prince, the grandson of Olwë of Alqualondë and thus her close kinsman. Together they}There she planned to build a ship and sail in it to Middle-earth; and {they were}she was about to seek leave from the Valar for {their}her venture.>
§52a It is told also that when Melkor saw that these lies were smouldering he began to speak, …

Respectfully
Findegil

ArcusCalion · 10-06-2017, 11:35 AM

The end of the paragraph given before this insertion, there are other paragraphs which were never proposed. Galadriel was not mentioned in paragraph 51, so what additions are there before this? I saw in your plain text version that you had included some, but I would like to see the full sourcing. I see that they are from the Shibboleth, which is good, bc I think we need to use more of that. The real challenge of this section will be getting the s > þ change into the narrative.

Findegil · 10-16-2017, 04:22 PM

Ofen enough in this thread we mentioned that this chapter need to be updated. The reason for this is the observed differences between what is included so fare in our editing the greatly changed story line as seen in the Shibboleth. But before we do this it seems necessary to collect here changes done to the text as it stands now, that have not been mentioned in this thread. This might have had different reason, either these changes were added while discussing other chapters, or I myself did them silently without mention here, for which, if it was the case, I apologise.
In the following I will mention all the changes that are not included in my expanded draft from "posting 42".
Some of these have been discussed above and in this cases I give a link to the first post in which they occur.

DoV-UM-02.1 / DoV-FM-03.5: This change was added by Maedhors in "posting 48". But since it is not in the section ‘Of the Feanor and the Unchaning of Melkor’ but in ‘Of Finwe and Miriel’ I will change the editing marker to DoV-FM-03.5.

DoV-UM-02.2 / DoV-UM-02.5A; DoV-UM-02.5 / DoV-UM-02.5B; DoV-UM-02.7 / DoV-UM-02.5C; DoV-UN-00.5 / DoV-UN-00; DoV-DV-11 and DoV-FM-08: These changes were all supposed by Maedhros in "posting 44".
Nobody ever commented on DoV-FM-08. But I think that was rather by accident then by propose. It seems that it got lost. And I did not add it into my working copy of the texts. Since I sopose we will take it up. I corrected this now.
DoV-UM-02.7: This addition about the father of Míriel was later removed into the chapter 6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië. Probably it was wrong to remove the editing marker so I reinstalled it in my working copy.

DoV-UN-00.2, DoV-UN-00.5and DoV-UN-00.7: These were probably inserted by me silently while working on my draft for 12 Of the Flight of the Noldor, again my apologies for that. Re-reading it now I would also like to change the placement. It might fit better one and a half § earlier, since their it does not break the line of story telling as much:

Quote:

§51 Thus ere the Valar were aware, the peace of Valinor was poisoned. The Noldor began to murmur against them and all their kindred; and many became filled with vanity, forgetting how much of what they had and knew came to them in gift from the Valar. DoV-UN-00.2 <UT
Galadriel and her brother Finrod were the children of Finarfin, the second son of Indis. Finarfin was of his mother's kind in mind and body, having the golden hair of the Vanyar, their noble and gentle temper, and their love of the Valar. As well as he could he kept aloof from the strife of his brothers and their estrangement from the Valar, and he often sought peace among the Teleri, whose language he learned. He wedded Eärwen, the daughter of King Olwë of Alqualondë, and his children were thus the kin of King Elu Thingol of Doriath in Beleriand, for he was the brother of Olwë; and this kinship influenced their decision to join in the Exile, and proved of great importance later in Beleriand. Finrod was like his father in his fair face and golden hair, and also in noble and generous heart, though he had the high courage of the Noldor and in his youth their eagerness and unrest; and he had also from his Telerin mother a love of the sea and dreams of far lands that he had never seen. Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Fëanor maybe, though she was wiser than he, and her wisdom increased with the long years.
Her mother-name was Nerwen ("man-maiden"), and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth. Even among the Eldar she was accounted beautiful, and her hair was held a marvel unmatched. It was golden like the hair of her father and of her foremother Indis, but richer and more radiant, for its gold was touched by some memory of the starlike silver of her mother; and the Eldar said that the light of the Two Trees, Laurelin and Telperion, had been snared in her tresses. Many thought that this saying first gave to Fëanor the thought of imprisoning and blending the light of the Trees that later took shape in his hands as the Silmarils. For Fëanor beheld the hair of Galadriel with wonder and delight. He begged three times for a tress, but Galadriel would not give him even one hair. These two kinsfolk, the greatest of the Eldar of Valinor, were unfriends for ever.
Galadriel was born in the bliss of Valinor, but it was not long, in the reckoning of the Blessed Realm, before that was dimmed; and thereafter she had no peace within. For in that testing time amid the strife of the Noldor she was drawn this way and that. She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage. Yet deeper still there dwelt in her the noble and generous spirit of the Vanyar, and a reverence for the Valar that she could not forget. From her earliest years she had a marvellous gift of insight into the minds of others, but judged them with mercy and understanding, and she withheld her goodwill from none save only Fëanor. In him she perceived a darkness that she hated and feared, though she did not perceive that the shadow of the same evil had fallen upon the minds of all the Noldor, and upon her own.>
DoV-UN-00.5 <UT She did indeed wish to depart from Valinor and to go into the wide world of Middle-earth for the exercise of her talents; for {"}being brilliant in mind and swift in action she had early absorbed all of what she was capable of the teaching which the Valar thought fit to give the Eldar,{"} and she felt confined in the tutelage of Aman. This desire of Galadriel's was, it seems, known to Manwë, and he had not forbidden her; but nor had she been given formal leave to depart. Pondering what she might do Galadriel's thoughts turned to the ships of the Teleri, and she went for a while to dwell with her mother's kindred in Alqualondë. DoV-UN-00.7{There she met Celeborn, who is here again a Telerin prince, the grandson of Olwë of Alqualondë and thus her close kinsman. Together they}There she planned to build a ship and sail in it to Middle-earth; and {they were}she was about to seek leave from the Valar for {their}her venture.
> Fiercest burned the new flame of desire for freedom and wider realms in the eager heart of Fëanor; and Melkor laughed in his secrecy, for to that mark his lies had been addressed, hating Fëanor above all, and lusting ever for the Silmarils. But these he was not suffered to approach. For though at great feasts Fëanor would wear them blazing upon his brow, at other times they were guarded close, locked in the deep chambers of his hoard in Túna. There were no thieves in Valinor as yet; but Fëanor began to love the Silmarils with a greedy love, and grudged the sight of them to all, save to his father or to his sons. Seldom he remembered now that the light with which they were lit was not his own.

DoV-RS-05: This over long footnote was inserted by me. I think in response to a discussion here where we talked about the Finwe and Miriel stuff. But anyhow it must be discussed here in which from to include it.

Quote:

§10 'Darkness and blood! When we could move again we came to the house. There we found the king slain at the door. His head was crushed as with a great mace of iron. DoV-RS-05 <FM2; follwing Note 3 [Footnote to the text: {In that evil time}When Finwë was slain by the Marrer himself, and his body was burned as by lightning stroke and was destroyed. Then Míriel and Finwë met again in Mandos, and lo! Míriel was glad of the meeting, and her sadness was lightened; and the will in which she had been set was released.
And when she learned of Finwë all that had befallen since her departure (for she had given no heed to it, nor asked tidings, until then) she was greatly moved; and she said to Finwë in her thought: 'I erred in leaving thee and our son, or at the least in not soon returning after brief repose; for had I done so he might have grown wiser. But the children of Indis shall redress his errors and therefore I am glad that they should have being, and Indis hath my love. How should I bear grudge against one who received what I rejected and cherished what I abandoned. Would that I might set all the Tale of our people and of thee and thy children in a tapestry of many colours, as a memorial brighter than memory! For though I am cut off now from the world, and I accept that Doom as just, I would still watch and record all that befalls those dear to me, and their offspring also. {[Added: }I feel again the call of my body and its skills.{]}'
And Finwë said to Vairë: 'Dost thou hear the prayer and desire of Míriel? Why will Mandos refuse this redress of her griefs, that her being may not be void and without avail? Behold! I instead will abide with Mandos for ever, and so make amends. For surely, if I remain unhoused, and forgo life in Arda, then his Doom will be inviolate.'
'So thou may deem,' answered Vairë; 'yet Mandos is stern, and he will not readily permit a vow to be revoked. Also he will consider not only Míriel and thee, but Indis and thy children, whom thou seemest to forget, pitying now Míriel only.'
'Thou are unjust to me in thy thought,' said Finwë. 'It is unlawful to have two wives, but one may love two women, each differently, and without diminishing one love by another. Love of Indis did not drive out love of Míriel; so now pity for Míriel doth not lessen my heart's care for Indis. But Indis parted from me without death. I had not seen her for many years, and when the Marrer smote me I was alone. She hath dear children to comfort her, and her love, I deem, is now most for Ingoldo. His father she may miss; but not the father of Feanaro! But above all her heart now yearns for the halls of Ingwë and the peace of the Vanyar, far from the strife of the Noldor. Little comfort should I bring her, if I returned; and the lordship of the Noldor hath passed to my sons.'
But when Mandos was approached he said to Finwë: 'It is well that thou desirest not to return, for this I should have forbidden, until the present griefs are long passed. But it is better still that thou hast made this offer, to deprive thyself, of thy free will, and out of pity for another. This is a counsel of healing, out of which good may grow.'
Therefore when Nienna came to him and renewed her prayer for Míriel, he consented, accepting the abnegation of Finwë as her ransom. Then the fëa of Míriel was released and came before Manwë and received his blessing; and she went then to Lóriën and re-entered her body, and awoke again, as one that cometh out of a deep sleep; and she arose and her body was refreshed. But after she had stood in the twilight of Lóriën a long while in thought, remembering her former life, and all the tidings that she had learned, her heart was still sad, and she had no desire to return to her own people. Therefore she went to the doors of the House of Vairë and prayed to be admitted; and this prayer was granted, although in that House none of the Living dwelt nor have others ever entered it in the body. But Míriel was accepted by Vairë and became her chief handmaid; and all tidings of the Noldor down the years from their beginning were brought to her, and she wove them in webs historial, so fair and skilled that they seemed to live, imperishable, shining with a light of many hues fairer than are known in Middle-earth. This labour Finwë is at times permitted to look upon. And still she is at work, though her name has been changed. For now she is named Fíriel, which to the Eldar signifies 'She that died', and also 'She that sighed'. As fair as the webs of Fíriel is praise that is given seldom even to works of the Eldar.]> We found no others: all had fled, and he had stood alone, defiant. That is plain; for his sword lay beside him, twisted and untempered as if by lightning-stroke. All the house was broken and ravaged. Naught is left. The treasuries are empty. The chamber of iron is torn apart. The Silmarils are taken!'

As said above this post was meant to comment on the state the chapter has right now, not to start the discussion of how to rework it according to the story linie in Shibboleth.

Respectfully
Findegil

ArcusCalion · 10-16-2017, 11:24 PM

I proposed two AAm additions for the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor as well. In my opinion, the most difficult section is Finwe and Miriel, and the rest are much more straightforward. It might be best to discuss the others first before diving into the difficulties of Finwe and Miriel.

ArcusCalion · 11-28-2017, 04:17 AM

While Fin and I wait for Aiwendil to continue his review of our work, I thought we might as well start discussion on reaching a consensus for this (very complex) chapter. I will take it section by section, keeping all of the previous editing markers (roughly) as they were, and adding new ones. This will include my attempt to work the Shibboleth storyline into the LQ chapter, and may very well be rough, so please bear with me while this is worked out.

Quote:

Of Finwë and Míriel

§1 Now the three kindreds ...... brush or with pen.
§2 It came to pass that in ...... of the Noldor.
§3 Míriel was the name of his mother. ........ Therefore she was called Serindë DoV-FM-00.5 <SF a name which she had indeed already been given as a 'mother-name'.> [Footnote: Míriel Serindë: that is DoV-FM-01 {Byrde Míriel (}Míriel the Broidress{): quoth Ælfwine}.]
§4 The love of Finwë and Míriel ...... and when she had named him DoV-FM-02 <FM2 [Footnote: According to the custom of the Eldar. In addition to their 'true names', which were their father-name and their chosen name, they often received other or 'added names'. Of these the most important were the mother-names. Mothers often gave to their children special names of their own choosing, the most notable of which were 'names of insight'. In the hour of birth, or on some other occasion of moment, a mother might give to her child a name that referred to dominant features of its nature as she perceived it, or that came of foresight and referred to its special fate. Names of this kind might become more widely used than the father-name (which was often only the name of the father repeated or modified); and if the child adopted a mother-name as a 'chosen name', then it became also a 'true name'. Curufinwë took Fëanáro as his chosen name. Fëanor is the form that this name took in the later speech of the Exiled Noldor.]> she said to Finwë: 'Never again shall I bear a child, for strength that would have nourished the life of many has gone forth into Fëanor.'
§5 Finwë was greatly ..... Here all weariness can find rest.'
DoV-FM-02.1 <moved from later §22 During that time Fëanor {dwelt in the care of his father. Soon he} began to show forth the skills in hand and mind of both Finwë and Míriel. As he grew from childhood he became ever more like Finwë in stature and countenance DoV-FM-03.2{, but in mood he resembled Míriel rather}. <SF Fëanor loved his mother dearly, though except in obstinacy their characters were widely different. He was not gentle. He was proud and hot-tempered, and opposition to his will he met not with the quiet steadfastness of his mother but with fierce resentment. He was restless in mind and body, though like Míriel he could become wholly absorbed in works of the finest skill of hand; but he left many things unfinished. While she lived she did much with gentle counsel to soften and restrain him. Her death was a lasting grief to Fëanor, and both directly and by its further consequences a main cause of his later disastrous influence on the history of the Noldor.> His will was strong and determined, and he pursued all his purposes both eagerly and steadfastly. Few ever changed his courses by counsel, none by force.>
§6 But when Míriel still languished, Finwë sought the counsel of Manwë, and Manwë delivered her to the care of Irmo in Lóriën. At their parting (for a little while as he thought) Finwë was sad, for it seemed an unhappy chance DoV-FM-02.2 {that the mother should depart and miss the beginning at least of the childhood days of her son}.
§7 ‘Unhappy it is indeed,’ .... Farewell, dear lord!'
§8 She spoke no clearer than this at that time, but in her heart she yearned not only for sleep and rest but release from the labour of living. DoV-FM-02.3 <SF The cause of her weariness she believed to be the bearing of Fëanor, great in mind and body beyond the measure of the Eldar. Her weariness she had endured until he was full grown, but she could endure it no longer.> She went then to Lóriën and laid her ..... but she did not return.
§9 Finwë lived in sorrow; ..... wife he called her by her names. {But it was of no avail,} DoV-FM-02.4 <SF But Míriel was reluctant, and to all the pleas of her husband and her kin that were reported to her, and to the solemn counsels of the Valar, she would say no more than ‘not yet'. Each time that she was approached she became more fixed in her determination, until at last she would listen no more, saying only: 'I desire peace. Leave me in peace here! I will not return. That is my will.'> {and}Thus Finwë alone in the Blessed Realm was bereaved of joy. DoV-FM-02.5 <SF So the Valar were faced by the one thing that they could neither change nor heal: the free will of one of the Children of Eru, which it was unlawful for them to coerce - and in such a case useless, since force could not achieve its purpose.>
After a while DoV-FM-02.6 {he}[Finwë] went to Lóriën ...... bond of love upon them.
§10 Yet Finwë was not ...... from the house of Vairë.'
§11 Then Manwë was moved ...... which the Children should bring into the world.
§12 But when all was said, ..... dissolved forever.
§13 ‘How shall a marriage ..... within the life of Arda.
§14 ‘We say “by the will .... one time awake and alive.
'This is the doom of Námo Mandos in this matter.'

§15 When Mandos had spoken thus, ..... judgements of Mandos?'
§16 Then Manwë called ...... Be not in haste!'
§17 Finwë answered: ...... a term to my bereavement.'
§18 Vairë with whom Míriel ...... but not within it.'
§19 Then Vairë said to Mandos: .... ageing of the world.'
§20 But Mandos said: ...... Yea, and to many others!'
§21 But the spirit of Míriel remained silent. Mandos therefore accepted her choice, and she went then to the Halls of Waiting appointed to the Eldar and was left in peace. DoV-FM-02.7 <SF 'So she must remain until the end of the world. For from the moment that Finwë and {Indis}[another] are joined in marriage all future change and choice will be taken from her and she will never again be permitted to take bodily shape. Her present body will swiftly wither and pass away, and the Valar will not restore it. For none of the Eldar may have two wives both alive in the world.' These were the words of Manwë, and an answer to the doubts that some had felt. For it was known to all the Valar that they alone had the power to heal or restore the body for the re-housing of a fëa that should in the later chances of the world be deprived; but that to Manwë also was given the right to refuse the return of the fëa.> [Footnote: But it is said that after a time DoV-FM-03 <FM2; following Note 3 {…..} she was permitted to return to the house of Vairë, and there it was her part to record in web and broidery all the histories of the Kin of Finwë and the deeds of the Noldor.] Nonetheless Mandos declared that a space of twelve years should pass between the declaration of the will of the Dead and the pronouncement of the doom of disunion.
DoV-Fm-03.1 <moved to earlier {§22 During that time .... none by force.}>
§23 It came to pass that ..... but of the Vanyar, being the DoV-FM-04 [daughter of the] sister of Ingwë; ..... while the bliss of Aman lasted.
§24 She loved Finwë dearly; ...... filling them with music.
§25 Now Ingwë, hearing ..... counsel of Ingwe.'
§26 Therefore one day, ..... grief in Aman!'
§27 In one year from their meeting upon the Mountain Finwë, King of the Noldor, wedded Indis, DoV-FM-05 sister[-daughter] of Ingwë; and ..... and she bore him DoV-FM-06 {five}[four] children whom he loved;[Footnote: Findis, Fingolfin, DoV-FM-07 {Finvain}[Írien] {, [Finarphin >]}[ and] Finarfin{ and Faniel: three}[:two] daughters, and two sons (Fingolfin and Finarfin).] yet the shadow of Míriel did not depart from the house of Finwë, nor from his heart; and of all whom he loved Fëanor had ever the chief share of his thought.
§28 DoV-FM-08 <SF During the time of his sorrow Finwë had little comfort from Fëanor. For a while he also had kept vigil by his mother’s body, but soon he became wholly absorbed again in his own works and devices. When the matter of Finwë and Indis arose he was disturbed, and filled with anger and resentment; though it is not recorded that he attended the Debate or paid heed to the reasons given for the judgement, or to its terms except in one point: that Míriel was condemned to remain forever discarnate, so that he could never again visit her or speak with her, unless he himself should die. [footnote: Death by free will, such as Míriel’s, was beyond his thought. Death by violence he thought impossible in Aman DoV-FM-09 {; though as is recorded in The Silmarillion this proved otherwise}.] This grieved him, and he grudged the happiness of Finwë and Indis, and was unfriendly to their children, even before they were born.> {The}Thus, the wedding of his father ...... would have been the poorer.

As a general note on this section, I have not included the debate of the Valar, since I plan to include that in the Volume III under the Statute of Finwe and Miriel.

DoV-FM-00.5: SF addition. Agreed
DoV-FM-01: editing out Aelfwine. Agreed
DoV-FM-02: LQ change. Agreed
DoV-FM-02.1: Because of the SF change where Miriel raised Feanor until adulthood, I had to move the paragraph about the growth of Feanor earlier, and make a few changes to erase the Finwe = single parent bits.
DoV-FM-03.2: replacing the LQ text with SF expansion. Agreed
DoV-FM-02.2: This must be removed, since in the new version, he is already full-grown.
DoV-FM-02.3: SF expansion detailing her mood.
DoV-FM-02.4: SF dialogue
DoV-FM-02.5: This is an interesting lens of looking at the situation that seemed lacking in the LQ text, so i took it from the SF
DoV-FM-02.6: We have lost the antecedent to the "he" with all the additions, so I changed it to Finwe.
DoV-FM-02.7: Dialogue of Manwe insertion. This bit of dialogue from SF also makes the whole Miriel re-housing story from the Laws and Customs text impossible
DoV-FM-03: Because of the Manwe dialogue, this footnote insertion is impossible, so I have removed it.
DoV-FM-03.1: this paragraph was moved earlier.
DoV-FM-04: SF family tree change. Agreed
DoV-FM-05: same as 04. Agreed
DoV-FM-06: Genealogy corrections. Agreed
DoV-FM-07: same as 06. Agreed
DoV-FM-08: SF addition about the mood of Feanor. I took up the paragraph in full, since it is a very interesting look at his psychology and I saw no real reason to break it up the way Fin had done. It does not repeat exactly anything that follows in the LQ paragraph, so I think simply inserting it is best.
DoV-FM-09: This is too meta, and should be removed from the footnote.

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Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor

§46c DoV-UM-01 <LQ And Fëanor grew swiftly as if a secret fire were kindled within him. and he was tall and fair of face and masterful, DoV-UM-02<Sil77 his eyes piercingly bright and his hair raven-dark;> and he became of all the Noldor .... could be seen small but clear, as with the eyes of the Eagles of Manwë. DoV-UM-02.2 <VT39 He is said also {being then in his youth before the days of his discontent,} to have learned, mostly from Aulë, more than any other of the Eldar in Arda of the language of the Valar. {This he got mostly from Aule}> Seldom were the hand and mind of Fëanor at rest.>
While still in early youth ...... Her father, {Mahtan}[Sarmo], DoV-UM-02.5 <SF {[who] was most widely known as Urundil 'copper-lover' >}, was a great smith, and among those of the Noldor most dear to the heart of Aulë, {<SF [for he] was an Aulendur, [Footnote: 'Servant of Aulë': sc. one who was devoted to that Vala. It was applied especially to those persons, or families, among the Noldor who actually entered Aulë’s service, and who in return received instruction from him.] and entered into {Aulë’s} [the Vala’s] service>}. {<SF He loved copper, and set it above gold, [and] usually wore a band of copper about his head. His hair was not as dark or black as was that of most of the Noldor, but brown, and had glints of coppery-red in it. >} Of {Mahtan}[Sarmo] Nerdanel ..... strange but beautiful.
She also was firm of will, ..... Eldar had so many children. DoV-UM-02.7 {<SF Of {Nerdanel's}[their] seven children the oldest, and the twins (a very rare thing among the Eldar) had [brown] hair [with coppery-red in it] {of this kind}. The eldest also wore a copper circlet.>} With her wisdom ...... was drawing to its close.
DoV-UM-03 <LQ For it came to pass that Melkor, as the Valar decreed, had dwelt for three ages in the duress of Mandos, alone. And when he had suffered that bondage, as the Valar had promised, he was brought again before them in conclave. He looked then upon the bliss and glory of the Valar, and malice was in his heart; he looked upon the fair Children of Ilúvatar that sat at the feet of the DoV-UM-03.5{gods}[Mighty], and hatred filled him; he looked upon the wealth of bright gems and lusted for them; but he hid his thoughts and postponed his vengeance.>
§48 Before the gates of {Valmar}[Valimar] ..... many hurts that he had DoV-UM-04 {wrought and now would work no more. His prayer Niënna aided, but Mandos was silent.}<LQ done to the world. His prayer Niënna aided, but the others were silent. DoV-UM-04.5 < AAm and Ulmo’s heart misgave him.>> Then Manwë granted ..... mind of Melkor forever.
Ulmo, it is said, was ...... themselves rebel.

DoV-UM-01: LQ changes
DoV-UM-02: Added description from the Sil77. Agreed
DoV-UM-02.2: VT addition. Agreed
DoV-UM-02.5: I have removed these additions, because they have been moved to Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie.
DoV-UM-02.7: same as 02.5
DoV-UM-03: LQ change
DoV-UM-03.5: a missed LQ change in Fin's text
DoV-UM-04: another missed LQ change
DoV-UM-04.5: an addition from AAm with added info.

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Of The Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor

§49 Most fair of all ...... But the Noldor took delight in the hidden knowledge
that he could reveal to them{;} DoV-UN-00.1 <OK {In Valinor} [for] Melkor used the Quenya with such mastery that all the Eldar were amazed, for his use could not be bettered, scarce equaled even, by the poets and the loremasters"{.}[,]> and some hearkened to words that it would have been better for them never to have heard.
§49a In after days ..... the wise, his wife.
§49b In that time, but before ..... last beyond the End.
Three jewels he made, and named them the Silmarils. {A living fire burned within them that} DoV-UN-00.2 < AAm But not until the End, when Fëanor shall return who perished when the Sun was young and sitteth now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until Sun passeth and Moon falls shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence within the walls of this world could mar or break it. Yet that crystal was to the Silmarils but as is the body to the Children of Ilúvatar: the house of its inner fire, that is within it and yet in all parts of it, and is its life. And the inner fire of the Silmarils> was blended of the Light ...... that he himself had made.
§50 Then Melkor lusted ..... Valar, his brethren.
Therefore, whenever he saw ..... But he did this with cunning, so that few who heard these lies ever took them from his own lips: DoV-UN-00.3 <AAm but he that sows lies in the end shall not lack of a harvest, and soon he may rest from toil indeed, while others reap and sow in his stead>[; and so] they passed ..... open ears in days to come.
When he saw that ..... wide lands of the world.
In those days, moreover, ..... these evil words.
§51 Thus ere the Valar .... gift from the Valar.

DoV-UN-00.4 <UT Galadriel and her brother Finrod were the children of Finarfin, the second son of Indis. Finarfin was of his mother's kind in mind and body, having the golden hair of the Vanyar, their noble and gentle temper, and their love of the Valar. As well as he could he kept aloof from the strife of his brothers and their estrangement from the Valar, and he often sought peace among the Teleri, whose language he learned. He wedded Eärwen, the daughter of King Olwë of Alqualondë, and his children were thus the kin of King Elu Thingol of Doriath in Beleriand, for he was the brother of Olwë; and this kinship influenced their decision to join in the Exile, and proved of great importance later in Beleriand. Finrod was like his father in his fair face and golden hair, and also in noble and generous heart, though he had the high courage of the Noldor and in his youth their eagerness and unrest; and he had also from his Telerin mother a love of the sea and dreams of far lands that he had never seen. Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Fëanor maybe, though she was wiser than he, and her wisdom increased with the long years.
Her mother-name was Nerwen (‘man-maiden’), and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth. Even among the Eldar she was accounted beautiful, and her hair was held a marvel unmatched. It was golden like the hair of her father and of her foremother Indis, but richer and more radiant, for its gold was touched by some memory of the starlike silver of her mother; and the Eldar said that the light of the Two Trees, Laurelin and Telperion, had been snared in her tresses. Many thought that this saying first gave to Fëanor the thought of imprisoning and blending the light of the Trees that later took shape in his hands as the Silmarils. For Fëanor beheld the hair of Galadriel with wonder and delight. He begged three times for a tress, but Galadriel would not give him even one hair. These two kinsfolk, the greatest of the Eldar of Valinor, were unfriends forever.
Galadriel was born in the bliss of Valinor, but it was not long, in the reckoning of the Blessed Realm, before that was dimmed; and thereafter she had no peace within. For in that testing time amid the strife of the Noldor she was drawn this way and that. She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage. Yet deeper still there dwelt in her the noble and generous spirit of the Vanyar, and a reverence for the Valar that she could not forget. From her earliest years she had a marvelous gift of insight into the minds of others, but judged them with mercy and understanding, and she withheld her goodwill from none save only Fëanor. In him she perceived a darkness that she hated and feared, though she did not perceive that the shadow of the same evil had fallen upon the minds of all the Noldor, and upon her own.>
DoV-UN-00.5 <UT She did indeed wish to depart from Valinor and to go into the wide world of Middle-earth for the exercise of her talents; for being brilliant in mind and swift in action she had early absorbed all of what she was capable of the teaching which the Valar thought fit to give the Eldar, and she felt confined in the tutelage of Aman. This desire of Galadriel's was, it seems, known to Manwë, and he had not forbidden her; but nor had she been given formal leave to depart. Pondering what she might do Galadriel's thoughts turned to the ships of the Teleri, and she went for a while to dwell with her mother's kindred in Alqualondë. DoV-UN-00.6{There she met Celeborn, who is here again a Telerin prince, the grandson of Olwë of Alqualondë and thus her close kinsman. Together they}There she planned to build a ship and sail in it to Middle-earth; and {they were}she planned {about} to seek leave from the Valar for {their}her venture.>

Fiercest burned the new flame ..... was not his own.
§52 High princes were ...... you forth from Túna!'
§52a It is told also ..... Valar also had been shut.
§52b but now the lords ...... work that he learned of Aulë.
§52c Thus with lies ......if they would follow him.

DoV-SF-01 <SF The Shibboleth of Fëanor>

DoV-SF-02 <SF The change þ > s {must therefore have been}was a conscious and deliberate change [in the Quenya] agreed to and accepted by a majority of the Noldor, however initiated, after the separation of their dwellings from the Vanyar. It {must have} occurred after the birth of Míriel, but {(probably)} before the birth of Fëanor. The special connection of these two persons with the change and its later history needs some consideration.
The change was a general one, based primarily on phonetic 'taste’ and theory, but it had not yet become universal. It was attacked by the loremasters, [Footnote: They continued to deplore it, and were able to insist later that the distinction between older þ and s should at least always be preserved in writing.] who pointed out that the damage this merging would do in confusing stems and their derivatives that had been distinct in sound and sense had not yet been sufficiently considered. The chief of the linguistic loremasters at that time was Fëanor. He insisted that þ was the true pronunciation for all who cared for or fully understood their language. But in addition to linguistic taste and wisdom he had other motives. He was the eldest of Finwë’s sons and the only child of his first wife Míriel.> DoV-SF-03 <SF She was {therefore} called Þerindë (Needlewoman) {- a name which she had indeed already been given as a 'mother-name’. She}[, and she] adhered to the pronunciation þ (it had still been usual in her childhood), {and she desired}desiring that all her kin should adhere to it also, at the least in the pronunciation of her name.>
DoV-SF-04 <SF Into the strife and confusion of loyalties in that time this seemingly trivial matter, the change of þ to s, was caught up to its embitterment, and to lasting detriment to the Quenya tongue. Had peace been maintained there can be no doubt that the advice of Fëanor, with which all the other lore- masters privately or openly agreed, would have prevailed. But an opinion in which he was certainly right was rejected because of the follies and evil deeds into which he was later led. He made it a personal matter: he and his sons adhered to þ, and they demanded that all those who were sincere in their support should do the same. Therefore, those who resented his arrogance, and still more those whose support later turned to hatred, rejected his shibboleth.
Indis was a Vanya, and it might be thought that she would in this point at least have pleased Fëanor, since the Vanyar adhered to þ. Nonetheless Indis adopted s. Not as Fëanor believed in belittlement of Míriel, but in loyalty to Finwë. For after the rejection of his prayers by Míriel Finwë accepted the change (which had now become almost universal among his people), although in deference to Míriel he had adhered to þ while she lived. Therefore Indis said: 'I have joined the people of the Noldor, and I will speak as they do.' So it came about that to Fëanor the rejection of þ became a symbol of the rejection of Míriel, and of himself, her son, as the chief of the Noldor next to Finwë. This, as his pride grew and his mood darkened, he thought was a 'plot' of the Valar, inspired by fear of his powers, to oust him and give the leadership of the Noldor to those more servile. So Fëanor would call himself Son of the Þerinde, and when his sons in their childhood asked why their kin in the house of Finwë used s for þ he answered: 'Take no heed! We speak as is right, and as King Finwë himself did before he was led astray. We are his heirs by right and the elder house. Let them sa-si, if they can speak no better.'>
DoV-SF-05 <SF The change to s had become general among the Noldor long before the birth of Galadriel and no doubt was familiar to her. Her father Finarfin, however, loved the Vanyar (his mother's people) and the Teleri, and in his house þ was used, Finarfin being moved by Fëanor neither one way or the other but doing as he wished. It is clear nonetheless that opposition to Fëanor soon became a dominant motive with Galadriel, while her pride did not take the form of wishing to be different from her own people. So while she knew well the history of their tongue and all the reasons of the loremasters, she certainly used s in her own daily speech.>
DoV-SF-06 <SF{the}The older þ was always kept distinct in writing from {original}[the] s. This in Exilic conditions, which made necessary the writing down anew from memory of many of the pre-Exilic works of lore and song, [Footnote: Few of these can have been carried from Valinor, and fewer still can have survived the journey to Middle-earth; but the memory of the loremasters was prodigious and accurate.] implies a continuing memory of the sound þ, and the places in which it had previously occurred; also probably a dislike of the change to s in the colloquial Quenya on the part of the scholars. It is in any case impossible to believe that any of the Noldor ever became unfamiliar with the sound þ as such. In Valinor they dwelt between the Vanyar (Ingwi) and the Teleri (Lindar), with whom they were in communication and sometimes intermarried. The Vanyar spoke virtually the same language (Quenya) and retained þ in daily use; the Teleri spoke a closely related language still largely intelligible to the Noldor, [Footnote: Without special study. But many of the Noldor could speak Telerin and vice versa. There were in fact some borrowings from one to another; of which the most notable was the general use of the Telerin form telpë 'silver’ for pure Quenya tyelpë.] and it also used þ. The Noldor were, even compared with other Eldar, talented linguists, and if þ did not occur in the language that they learned in childhood - which could only be the case with the youngest generations of those who set out from Aman - they would have had no difficulty in acquiring it.>

§52d Then there was great unrest ..... honor thy words!'
§52e But even as he spoke, ..... my wrath no longer!'
§52f Then Fingolfin bowed ..... master of thralls.'
§52g These words were ...... Finarfin his brother.
§52h The unrest of the Noldor ..... did not suffice.
§53 But now the deeds of Fëanor ...... of their own to declare.
§53a Then Mandos set Fëanor ...... judgement he scorned.
§53b But when all was said, ...... the life of his kinsman.
§53c Therefore Mandos said ...... will release thee.'
§53d Then Fingolfin rose ...... though this had been little to the liking of Fëanor. DoV-UN-01 <LT 1; VI A little stream, and its name was Híri, ran down from the hills, northward of the opening to the coast where {Kor}[Tirion] was built, and it wandered thence across the plain no one knew whither. Maybe it found the Outer Seas, for {north of the roots of Silpion}> {Northward}[northward] in Valinor, in the hills near to the halls of Mandos, <LT 1; VI it dove into the earth and there was a rugged place and a rock-ringed dale; and here the DoV-UN-02 {Noldoli}[People of Fëanor] purposed to abide, or rather to await the passing of DoV-UN-03 {wrath from Manwe's heart}[the twelve years], for in no way as yet would they accept the thought of leaving {Kor}[Tirion] forever.
Caves they made in the walls of that dale, and thither they bore their wealth of gems, of gold and silver and fair things; but their ancient homes in {Kor}[Tirion] were empty of their voices, filled only with their paintings and their books of lore>. Fëanor and his sons made a strong place and a treasury at Formenos, DoV-UN-04 [as that dale was named,] and they laid in hoard ..... and the sons of Indis.
§54 Worse now befell. In ...... the trammels of the Valar.
'Behold the truth ..... folk of Arda.'
Now Fëanor’s heart ...... realm of the Valar!'
Then the fires of ..... dwellers in Eä.
Then Melkor departed ...... Manwë in Valimar.

DoV-UN-00.1: This addition from the Ossanwe Kenta fits nicely here, but if we are including the full text of this in the appendix, should we leave this out?
DoV-UN-00.2: This is an addition from AAm to expand.
DoV-UN-00.3: This proverb is an addition from AAm
DoV-UN-00.4: This is an addition about Galadriel from the SF. Agreed
DoV-UN-00.5: This is an addition about Galadriel from the UT. Agreed
DoV-UN-00.6: I changed the wording from "she was about to seek leave" to "she planned to seek leave" because in the original, it is only the first part of a sentence that says she was about to seek leave when the Flight of the Noldor happened. This just flows better.

DoV-SF-01: I tried to add in all the pertinent Shibboleth linguistic info that was relevant to the story, and I figured we might as well take up the subheading as well.
DoV-SF-02: This first paragraph is edited to make it work as an opening paragraph. The given opening is Tolkien speculating, and is not usable.
DoV-SF-03: Edited out the Mother-name info, since it is inserted in the Finwe and Miriel section.
DoV-SF-04: I skipped the entire summary of the Finwe Miriel plotline and jumped to the shibboleth.
DoV-SF-05: This is the last relevant section, about Galadriel specifically.
DoV-SF-06: This is from the first section, and as it had interesting information, I figured I would add it there.

With that we return to the base chapter.
DoV-UN-01: LT expansion for detail. Agreed
DoV-UN-02: Fin used Feanorians here, but I think People of Feanor is safer.
DoV-UN-03: change bc of the later conception. Agreed
DoV-UN-04: added in order to introduce the name Formenos. Agreed

Quote:

Of the Darkening of Valinor

§55 Now the Valar ...... towards Araman.'
Thus Melkor departed ...... evil that yet might come.
§55a When Manwë heard ...... the northern fences of Aman.
§55b This indeed Melkor ...... soon to lose forever.
§55c Thus unseen he ...... hungered for light and hated it.
§55d In a ravine she ...... or will to depart.
§56 Now Melkor sought ...... Utumno and Angband.
§56a ‘Come forth!' ...... set his lure for the lesser.
§56b Slowly {Ungoliantë}[Ungoliant] ..... gloated upon the gems.
§56c There in the black ....... Arda, great or small.
§56d ‘Come then!' he ...... the pathless Sea.
§57 But now upon the ...... down into the Blessed Realm.
§57a Still in the dark ...... Avathar and went to do his will.
§58 Now it was a time ..... clothe themselves in the forms of the Children of Ilúvatar, DoV-DV-00.5{[Footnote: As is told in the ‘Ainulindalë'.]} so also they ...... under Eru they had made.
Therefore Yavanna set ...... the first gathering of fruits, and this was held DoV-DV-01 [in Valimar and ]upon Taniquetil; for Manwë decreed ...... in music and song.
§58a DoV-DV-02 {This day}[These days] had now come once more, ....... wilt be honored in my hall.'
DoV-DV-03 <BoLT 1; VI {Gods}[Valar] and Elves ...... At places mighty trees grew on either side, or at places the road would open to a glade and fountains spring DoV-DV-03.5{by magic} high into the air for the refreshment of all who sped that way.
Now came the {Teleri}[Vanyar] led by the white-robed people of DoV-DV-04 [Ingwë,] the {Inwir}[Ingwi], and the throbbing of their congregated harps beat the air most sweetly; and after them went the {Noldoli}[Noldor] DoV-DV-05 {mingling once more with their own dear folk by Manwë’s clemency, that his festival might be duly kept,} but the music that their viols and instruments awoke was now more sweetly sad than ever before.{ And last came the people of the shores, and their piping blent with voices brought the sense of tides and murmurous waves and the wailing cry of the coast-loving birds thus inland deep upon the plain.}
Then was all that ....... This had DoV-DV-06 [Salmar] Lirillo written and taught them, ...... company passed through.
There Varda met them, standing amid the companies of the DoV-DV-07 {Manir and the Suruli}[Maiar], and all the {Gods}[Valar] made them welcome, and feasts there were in all the great halls thereafter.
Now their custom was ....... of Ilúvatar, and of things to be and that had been.> DoV-DV-08 <BoLT 1;VI And on that day would {Kor}[Tirion] and Valimar ....... and so would end the days of DoV-DV-09 {Double Mirth}[mirth].
§58b DoV-DV-10 {There}[On the third day there] came the Vanyar, ....... not touched them, as yet.
§58c One thing only marred ...... and I will not meet my people DoV-DV-11 <AAm , nor those that rule in my stead>.' And Fëanor did not come ...... locked in a chamber of iron.
Nonetheless he met ....... no grievance.'
Then Fëanor took ...... May no new grief divide us!'
'I hear thee,’ said .... words would bear.
§58d It is told that even ....... And still {Ungoliantë}[Ungoliant] thirsted; and she went to the great Wells of {Varda} DoV-DV-12 [Culullin and Silindrin] and drained them dry. And as she drank ...... and did not mean to keep.
§58e Outside he had lurked, ....... down the thrones of the Valar.
§58f Then he went on ...... have hidden from her.
§59 So the great Darkness ..... mind and strangle the very will.
§59a Varda looked down ...... against the walls of the shore.
§59b Then Manwë went up ....... and his vengeance was achieved.

DoV-DV-00.5: This is in our version in the first chapter, so I see no reason for the footnote.
DoV-DV-01: This was changed because of the addition of the Lost Tales expansion. Agreed.
DoV-DV-02: same as 01. Agreed
DoV-DV-03: This is the expansion from Lost Tales.
DoV-DV-03.5: Removed because of the magic problems.
DoV-DV-04: As the term Ingwi has not occurred in the text before, I added Ingwe in as an explanation, and updated the Inwir term of LT to the Shibboleth Ingwi.
DoV-DV-05: The statement about the Noldor and the Teleri must be removed because of the changed conception.
DoV-DV-06: Personally, I would say "Salmar Lirillo" and leave the surname in, as nothing in later writings denies the name's existence, and we have left his other surname of Noldorin in the second chapter.
DoV-DV-07: Change because of the Maiar concept. Agreed
DoV-DV-08: Next LT addition. Agreed
DoV-DV-09: I am not sure why the LT name was removed. In the new conception, no name is given to the festival, so I see no reason not to use this as the name.
DoV-DV-10: edited to conform with LT addition. Agreed
DoV-DV-11: AAm addition. Agreed
DoV-DV-12: Change based on the second chapter, edited from what Fin had proposed originally based on the final version of chapter 2.

Quote:

Of the Rape of the Silmarils

§1 When the Trees should ..... But it was not so.
§2 For Yavanna spoke before the Valar, saying DoV-RS-01 {...}<AAm : 'The Light of the Trees hath gone hence, and liveth now only in the jewels of Fëanor. Foresighted was he. Lo! for those even who are mightiest there is some deed that they may accomplish once, and once only. The Light of the Trees I brought into being, and can do so never again within Ea. Yet had I but a little of that Light, I could recall life to the Trees, ere their roots die; and then our hurt should be healed, and the malice of Melkor be confounded.'
§3 And Manwë spoke, and said, ‘Hearest thou, Fëanor, the words of Yavanna? Wilt thou grant what she would ask?'
And there was a long silence, but Fëanor DoV-RS-02 {answered no word}<LQ2 made no answer>.
Then Tulkas cried: ‘Speak, O Noldo, yea or nay! But who shall deny Yavanna? And did not the light of the Silmarils come from her work in the beginning?'
But Aulë the Maker said, Be not hasty! We ask a greater thing than thou knowest. Let him have peace yet a while.'>
§4 But Fëanor spoke then, and cried bitterly DoV-RS-03 {...}<AAm : 'Verily for the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only. And in that deed his heart shall rest. Mayhap I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make their like; and if they be broken, then broken will be my heart, and I shall DoV-RS-04 {die}<LQ2 be slain>: first of all the Children of Eru <editorial addition in Aman>.'
§5 'Not the first,' quoth Mandos, ...... of their kindred.’
§6 'Thou hast spoken,' said ...... of the Marring of Arda.
§7 But even as she ..... full tale was told.
§8 ‘My lord,’ said {Maedhros}[Maedros] ..... house of Fëanor.
§9 ‘We heard the sound ...... all wit and will.
§10 'Darkness and blood! When we ..... The Silmarils are taken!'
§11 Then suddenly Fëanor ..... fathers of greater worth?
§12 After him {Maedhros}[Maedros] ...... from beyond Arda.
The Silmarils had passed away, ...... Noldor drew near.

DoV-RS-01: Expanding using the account in AAm. Agreed
DoV-RS-02: I see no real reason for this change, but I also have no issue with it.
DoV-RS-03: Expansion using AAm again. Agreed.
DoV-RS-04: This has to be changed because LQ was a correction to a mistake he made, and my editorial addition is added because it is said that weapons were brought to the Elves in Middle-earth because they were being hunted by the monsters of Morgoth, so they have been slain before.

Quote:

Of the Thieves' Quarrel

§13 Meanwhile, it is told, ..... as the Ice drew nearer.
§14 Through this dim land ..... he should now fulfill his promise.
§15 'Black-heart!' she said ...... Open your right hand!'
§16 In his right hand Morgoth ..... shall burn thee forever!'
§17 But {Ungoliantë}[Ungoliant] was ..... as of voices in anguish.
§18 But the cry of Morgoth ..... as a tempest of fire.
§19 Then Ungoliant quailed, ..... he returned to Angband.
§20 But Ungoliant went into ...... she devoured herself at last.
§21 Thus ended the Thieves' Quarrel; ...... the power of Morgoth.
Now Morgoth, having achieved ...... they crept back to him.
Then swiftly they began to delve anew the vast vaults of Angband and to uplift its pillared halls of stone amid smoke and fire, and above them were reared the reeking towers of Thangorodrim. DoV-TQ-01 <AAm There countless became the hosts of his beasts and his demons; and thence there now came forth in hosts beyond count the fell race of the Orkor, that had grown and multiplied in the bowels of the earth like a plague. These creatures Morgoth bred in envy and mockery of the Eldar. In form they were like unto the Children of Ilúvatar, yet foul to look upon; for they were bred in hatred, and with hatred they were filled; and he loathed the things that he had wrought, and with loathing they served him. Their voices were as the clashing of stones, and they laughed not save only at torment and cruel deeds. The Glamhoth, host of tumult, the Noldor called them. (Orcs we may name them; for in days of old they were strong and fell as demons. Yet they were not of demon kind, but children of earth corrupted by Morgoth, and they could be slain or destroyed by the valiant with weapons of war.) {[But indeed a darker tale some yet tell in Eressea, saying that the Orcs were verily in their beginning of the Quendi themselves, a kindred of the Avari unhappy whom Morgoth cozened, and then made captive, and so enslaved them, and so brought them utterly to ruin.[Footnote: Quoth Ælfwine.] For, saith Pengolod, Melkor could never since the Ainulindalë make of his own aught that had life or the semblance of life, and still less might he do so after his treachery in Valinor and the fullness of his own corruption.]}
§128 Dark now fell the shadow on Beleriand, as elsewhere is told; but in Angband Morgoth forged for himself a great crown of iron; and he called himself King of the World. In token of which he set the Silmarils in his crown. His evil hands were burned black by the touch of those hallowed jewels, and black they have been ever since; and he was never again free from the pain of the burning DoV-TQ-02 <QS , and the anger of the pain>. The crown he never took from his head, though its weight became a weariness unto torment; and never but once only, while his realm lasted, did he depart for a while secretly from his domain in the North. And once only also did he himself wield weapon, until the Last Battle. For now, more than in the days of Utumno ere his pride was humbled, his hatred devoured him, and in the domination of his servants and the inspiring of them with lust of evil, he spent his spirit. Nonetheless his majesty as one of the Valar long remained, though turned to terror, and before his face all save the mightiest sank into a dark pit of fear.>

DoV-TQ-01: AAm expansion. Agreed
DoV-TQ-02: QS detail added in. Agreed

If I have missed anything in this (very long) post, feel free to let me know, and I will add it in. I would say that taking the discussion section by section is best, so as not to be inundated with comments.

04-03-2004, 11:30 AM	#41
Maédhros The Kinslayer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Formenos Posts: 658	Darkening of Valinor Lindil, I was wondering if you had a copy of the work that was done regarding the Darkening of Valinor so that we could see it. If I'm following rigthly this thread, you divided this chapter in several parts and each one of you did a revision in them. How you by any chance a working text that you could post in the private forum or send by mail that would be great. I would like to comment on your work. __________________ "Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy."

05-01-2006, 05:26 PM	#43
Maédhros The Kinslayer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Formenos Posts: 658	Thanks Findegil, and yes I'm still around. I was wondering if you would be able to send to me this draft for me to look over. It is not easy to read it in the Private Forum. I think that I had already have some work in this part that I want to compare it, so that is why I have asked lindil a long time ago. __________________ "Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy."

10-06-2017, 11:35 AM	#66
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	The end of the paragraph given before this insertion, there are other paragraphs which were never proposed. Galadriel was not mentioned in paragraph 51, so what additions are there before this? I saw in your plain text version that you had included some, but I would like to see the full sourcing. I see that they are from the Shibboleth, which is good, bc I think we need to use more of that. The real challenge of this section will be getting the s > þ change into the narrative. Last edited by ArcusCalion; 10-06-2017 at 11:42 AM.

05-03-2006, 04:10 PM	#45
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,720	Gerneral remark: I would like to re-name your references. In XX-YY-ZZA, XX-YY-ZZb and so on the "A" should refer to different version of the same change. But that is not the case in your suggestions. Therefor let make it: DoV-UM-02.5A => DoV-UM-02.2 DoV-UM-02.5B => DoV-UM-02.5 DoV-UM-02.5C => DoV-UM-02.7 DoV-UN-00 => DoV-UM-00.5 (I do'nt like zero to much.) Now to your suggestions; DoV-UM-02.5A => DoV-UM-02.2: Agreed, but why do we delet a part of this? DoV-UM-02.5B => DoV-UM-02.5: Agreed. DoV-UM-02.5C => DoV-UM-02.7: Agreed. DoV-UN-00 => DoV-UM-00.5: Agreed. Mathan => Sarmo: I second this change but have to lock deper into the sources. I would like also to have Aiwendils input here. Maedhros I tried to send you a complet set of all TftE text but it failed. See your mail about this. Respectfully Findegil

05-06-2006, 03:11 PM	#47
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,720	I know that this might be again a endless discussion but I would take up the Footnote to Aulendur along with passage about Mahtan/ Sarmo. Sarmo is the right choice for his name for me. Respectfully Findegil

05-09-2006, 12:06 PM	#49
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	I agree about Sarmo (actually, I could have sworn we discussed this before, but I could not find any such thread). It seems fairly clear to me that Sarmo is the later name - and even if it was followed by a question mark, it indicates that "Mahtan" had been rejected (or forgotten, which I suppose amounts to the same thing). I also have no problem with the footnote. See, Findegil, not an endless discussion - unless Maedhros objects.

05-09-2006, 03:00 PM	#50
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,720	Nice. The Footnote is as I wanted it. DoV-UM-02.1 Agreed. Anything else? Respectfully Findegil

05-10-2006, 02:24 PM	#52
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,720	Seems we have done that quiet in a rush. I will look for these "Scanos" as I name them (in comparision to typos). To aviod such failures as a missing replacment in future I have collected all the general changes agreed upon so far in on single thread. I will cintinue to add general changes as we go on with the editing. Respectfully Findegil

03-13-2011, 12:46 PM	#53
gondowe Wight Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 246	I know you want to revise this chapter but before I forgot this, I want to point here a possible addition, perhaps like this: Her father, {Mahtan}[Sarmo], <SF [who] was most widely known as Urundil 'copper-lover' >, was a great smith, and among those of the Noldor most dear to the heart of Aulë, <SF for he was an Aulendur and entered into {Aulë’s} [the Vala’s] service>. <SF He usually wore a band of copper about his head. His hair was not as dark or black as was that of most of the Ñoldor, but brown, and had glints of coppery-red in it. ><SF marginal note VT 41, And had beard, for althougth Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life. {Nerdanel's father}[This] was excepcional, {being}[for he was] only early in his second.> Of {Mahtan}[Sarmo] Nerdanel learned much of crafts that women of the Noldor seldom used: the making of things of metal and stone. You can redact it better. Greetings

03-14-2011, 08:53 AM	#54
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,720	This is to be considered, since I do not see any other place for it. But is this information worth the interuption of the text? Respectfuly Findegil

09-22-2015, 04:05 AM	#57
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,720	Laws and custom joined with The Converse of Manwë and Eru were in my 'plan' part of volume 3: THE LORE OF THE WISE. As for farther additions from The Shibboleth of Fëanor: They are in part contradicting the Story line of The Later Silmarillion. Since I think (please cross check) that SF is the later source, we might have to change big parts of this chapter again. Respectfully Findegil

09-25-2015, 08:29 AM	#59
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,720	The change in the calculations of times is a more general point. We should probably discuss that in a thread of it own. In our text we can avoid being specific with any numbers of years or other units. Since DoV realy is the first chapter that the project worked on conclusivly, a re-check for other possible additions especially from younger sources (as SF) is for sure needed. But for the time being I think the group has opened enough indeepth discussions. The detailed discussion of the possible merger of texts including [b]SF[7b] has to wait. Respectfully Findegil

10-01-2017, 07:38 PM	#61
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	just putting in a reminder here that the Shibboleth additions about Sarmo must be removed, due to their inclusion in chapter 6. In addition, the addition of the draining of Kullulin and Silindrin in the Darkening of Valinor section.

10-02-2017, 02:09 AM	#62
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,720	And we have to remove Celeborn from the addition that descrips Galadriels stay in Aqualondë. Respectfully Findegil

10-02-2017, 11:50 AM	#63
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	Where was this addition made? I saw no post about it on this thread.

10-03-2017, 10:57 AM	#64
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	Also, I have been attempting to make a draft of the Shibboleth of Feanor text for Volume III and I belive it is too intertwined with the story itself to stand alone, as much therein is not used elsewhere. Therefore, I think we need to take up more of it in these chapters. In addition, there is something that the SF changed from the LQ version: Feanor was already full-grown by the time Miriel passed to Mandos. This changes many things in this, and also in the Laws and Customs.

10-16-2017, 11:24 PM	#68
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	I proposed two AAm additions for the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor as well. In my opinion, the most difficult section is Finwe and Miriel, and the rest are much more straightforward. It might be best to discuss the others first before diving into the difficulties of Finwe and Miriel.