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#41 | |||
Overshadowed Eagle
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Another one for you to play with, featuring a dubious proper name and a double negative: Ar silumė, equė Nanisįro, minya axanya len: quetė ar ala lalįma! hS
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#42 |
Wight
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Alright, first is "Ar silumė,": And now,
Then "Equė Nanisįro,": Says Denethor, Followed the by perplexing "Minya axanya len": His first rule to me: After which comes "quetė ar ala lalįma!": speak and grow unsound! The last one was most confusing, as it doesn't make much sense after translating, but that is the best translation I could come to. Anyway that would be: "And now, says Denethor, his first rule to me: speak and grow unsound!" I expect that is not quite right, but I am at a loss for the correct answer. ![]()
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#43 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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You're pretty close, actually. Let's have a look:
"equė" is a lovely weird verb. I often read it as "quoth" or "spake", but "said/says" is just as correct. What's interesting is that it has no tenses - so the English can be past or present. Check your pronouns in the 'rule' clause. Also take a look at what "axan" can mean - it's a bit stronger than just a rule. "ala" could mean 'grow', but in this case is the imperative of a different verb I already used in my version of your last answer. (I did say there was a double negative!) 'Unsound' is a literally correct translation of "lalįma", but 'sound' here = noise, not solidity. There's a better word for "un-noisy". hS
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#44 |
Wight
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That was most helpful, thank you.
My second answer is: "And now, spake Denethor, her first command to me: speak and do not be silent!" Is that correct?
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#45 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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And now, said Denethor, my first command to you: speak and be not silent! Tell me your full tale, and see that you recall all that you can of Boromir, my son. Sit now and begin! You're still getting caught out by those pronouns. There's (uh... obviously) two of them in that clause: minya axanya len -nya is the possessive version of -n or -nye. Where -nye would need to be attached to a verb (Canyanye, "I command"), -nya attaches to a noun. Axan-nya is "my command". It's a bit complicated by the double N collapsing into one; my model for this was onya, onna-nya. It may be that *axannya would have been better. Le- is... well, it's wrong is what it is. ^_^ I took it directly from an example of the dative, but didn't bothered to check if it was singular or plural "you". The correct word would by lyen, the polite version of "you", with a dative suffix - ie, "to you" or "for you". (We know Denethor would have used the polite form, because Tolkien wrote a whole thing about how Pippin didn't, and how that affected the Gondorian perception of him.) Back to you! hS
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#46 |
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The pronouns are confusing. But as Gandalf might say "It is a comfort not to be mistaken at all points."
![]() Now for the next one: "I cuvoitė oio ś estelinqua."
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#47 |
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I translated this quickly for sense a few days ago as "The faithless/treacherous are ever unfaithful/hopeless," which sounds close to a Tolkien quote, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe something from Gandalf? Maybe about Gollum? I haven't gotten any further than that.
hS
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#48 |
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That is almost right.
The answer is: "The treacherous are ever distrustful." Said by Gandalf of Saruman in The Two Towers. I found it a bit more difficult because there is not a word that means simply "trust".
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#49 | |
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After that I'm not sure. It depends on how we read "distrustful" - is that a noun, "distrustful ones", or an adjective, "the distrustful treacherous"? I think you've structured the sentence the second way, so we'll go with that. You've correctly dropped "to be" and moved the adjective "ever distrustful" to the end to get that meaning. oio: Absolutely the right word. There is an attested word Oiencarmė, where oi- is used as a prefix before a vowel, but given how stacked the rest of the sentence is it's probably best to keep it separate. ś estelinqua: I think you're right that estel is the best word for trust we have; it's probably best translated "faith", which ultimately is what Gandalf means. (amdir might be better, but is only known in Sindarin.) -inqua looks pretty good too; the attested examples use it to turn "one" into "alone", and "glory" into "glorious", so "trust" to "trusting" works. I think ś as an independent particle would imply "without trustworthiness"; there are examples ś+ópa = śpa, ś+Amanyar = Śmanyar, so I think you'd want śstelinqua as the final adjective My final version of your quote would then be: I cuvoiti oio śstelinqua, which is only two vowels and a sapce off from what you had. Nice! I'll try and come up with something in the next few days, unless someone else wants a go. ![]() hS
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#50 |
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Alright.
Thank you for the nice, clear explaintions!
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#51 |
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Here we go:
Ar lendes lį, ar tassė né malina cala, ar ruinė mi; ar i undóma mat férima, ar nésė horina. hS
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#52 |
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First is Ar lendes lį. That sounds beautiful. But I am not immediately sure what it means as there are some conflicting definitions, so I'll have to rely on context.
Ar tassė né malina cala is "and there was yellow light". Ar ruinė mi; ar i undóma mat férima seems to be "and fire within; and the twilight eats all available" It ends with ar nésa horina. "and a sister compelled" All my sources agree that nésa means "sister", and compelled/impelled is the only definition I can find for horina So, after all that I think the answer is something like: And she came not, and there was yellow light, and fire within, and the twilight ate all available, and a sister compelled. It doesn't quite make sense, nor does it resemble any quote I am familiar with, but I am sure that I've missed something or another.
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#53 |
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Not quite; you've got a big chunk in the middle exactly right, but went a bit wrong at the ends.
-s: the third person pronoun; it can be he, she, or it. lį: you want a different meaning here. This word doesn't quite fit the quote, but it was the best I could find. mat: decent guess with "eats", but as a basic verb mat- would always take an ending of some sort, even in the aorist tense. (A-stem verbs don't, but if it ends in a consonant, it needs something.) That indicates that this mat isn't a verb; it could be a dual noun (ma+t = "a pair of things"), but in this case it's just a noun. nésė: nésa would be sister, but I said nésė. This is an attested form, but I could equally have used nés, or apparently nįnes(ė). horina: I think you might have correctly identified this as a passive participle, but gotten the wrong verb; this is hora-, not horya- hS
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#54 |
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Right then.
After taking into account everything you noted, my second answer is: "And he went beyond, and there was yellow light, and fire within, and the evening meal ready, and a youth waited." It certainly makes more sense now, though I still find that I cannot place the quote. Perhaps it is from Frodo and Sam's stay at Henneth Annūn? Or maybe it is from Pippin's experience in Minas Tirith, the youth being Bergil. At any rate, I feel that the translation is closer.
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#55 | ||
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I couldn't find a good word for "onwards"; as he's travelling past the point last described, I settled on "beyond". And the "was" is pretty optional, so I skipped it. That last clause was a real problem though, wasn't it? ar nésė horina ar is obvious, it's just an "and". nésė was a bad choice on my part: it's an attested form for "he was" (see here, about halfway down the table) but it collides with too many other words. I could have used nįne+s, but it would have been simpler just to use the emphatic pronoun isse and leave the "was" out entirely. horina is the passive participle of hora-, to wait for (yes, a middle Quenya form). The participles give me a bit of a headache, but I think the difference is that an active participle is the state you're in when you're doing the verb ("A waiting wife"), while the passive participle is the state you're in when it's being done to you ("an awaited husband"). It's difficult in English, because the active participle looks and often acts identically to the present tense: "an eating man" is just a man who is eating, right? But no, that's a completely different grammatical form that just happens to look the same. ![]() Anyway, that's my rant on participles. Over to you! hS
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#56 |
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That was a bit hard. But it was educational too, so I won't feel too bad about not getting it correct.
Here is my sentence for you: Įva lala se cuita ango.
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#57 | |
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First thought: "Do not [verb] this [noun] of iron," with lala being related to Lalaith, Turin's sister (something to do with singing?). Now checking: lala- is "to laugh". Se is not... whatever sort of word "this" would be, but is either a pronoun (he/she/it) or a word "at, in". Hmmm... an idea occurs. Cuita is from the verb "to live", so I'm pretty confident, but let's check... there we go, ango is an outdated word for a dragon. "Never laugh at live dragons (Bilbo, you fool)!" Pretty good! Your first three words look spot on. Eldamo prefers coita- to cuita- for "to live". In either case, this time we need the active participle "living", which we can get by adding -ila. I would also probably prefer the later word föalócė for "dragon", so I end up with: Įva lala se coitaila föalócė! hS
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#58 |
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Yes! That's it!
That means it's your turn, if you're up for it. If don't want to keep going back and forth, it won't offend me or anything. But I am ready if you have another one.
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#59 |
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I'm happy to keep going; it's just been a bit of a month.
Mélamar cata, Ambar epė, ar na tieli telconta. hS
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#60 |
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Okay, great! I don't mind waiting, I just don't want you to feel that you must continue if you'd rather not.
And my answer is "Home is behind, the World ahead, and there are many paths to tread."
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#61 | |
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hS
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#62 |
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Great!
![]() Here is the next one: Nyariėn nįne imnianna. Haimo i yįra: tyavilto i ansaila quén har quetanna. Hopefully that's all in order. I had to use substitutes for one or two words, but it should be very close.
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