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#41 | |||
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Posted by Aiwendil:
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RB-DB-01: Agreed we take your suggestion. RB-DB-06.5: §134 ... {Third}[Fourth]: Good catch. RB-DB-07: I thought it might be helpful because the last time we have heard of Glaurung before, we were told that he was not yet full grown. But the addition might be considered superficial. §137: In this case I do not agree fully to your suggestion. In the first sentence it is better to take up GA fully, but I would still keep the first half sentence from the QS. And in the rest of the paragraph I think we loss a good deal of information by only taking one source. Quote:
RD-DB-24: Agreed, we take the addition out. {Damrod and Diriel}[Amros] it will be. §143: I did not observe the chronology issue. But I am reluctant to skip all that nice interpretation why Tol Sirion was the last fortress attacked in that battle. Also I see some info in QS that is missing in GA. Some examples in detail (No. are take from the text below): RD-DB-25.5: That Glaurung was shy of the River Sirion at this time is a motive not given eles were. Interesting that he is again in the eastern Battle in the Nirneath. RD-DB-28: That Sauron was in command of Balrogs in this battle doth strength his position among the host of Morogth. RD-DB-31.5: Well, this is new. I wish to keep the word 'necromancy'. As fare as I remember this is the only real connection you will get while reading the story of Middle-Earth chronological between Gorthaur of Beleriand and the Necromancer of the Mirkwood in The Hobbit. Even so the change might be called stylistic, I think it is important because we will have to live with The Hobbit as it is. I think connections should be strength if we can. After RD-DB-32: That the final victory came by assault and not by siege is important, since it makes Orodreth escape much more feasible. After RD-DB-33: The 'dark cloud of fear' is again a nice tie to the siege of Minas Tirith in The Lord of Rings. I think that should not be lost. Within RD-DB-34: Orodreth is no longer Finrods brother, but his nephew. But I find 'Steward' the more fitting connection here. RD-DB-35: Why should we loss this bridge to the future? Readers will remember this easier if we provide them with the information that it has influence in the future narrative. Now you could say that again I propose a stylistic change. But I think that I rather argue against a change with reasons of style. The difference is, that in Annals I would not expect such a style, in a 'Quenta' it is rather classical. And Tolkien is using this often in The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and The Lord of the Rings. Thus I would edit: Quote:
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#42 | |||||
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RB-DB-07: Adding the 'now' is a small change, and there's no real problem with it; but my inclination is that if Tolkien didn't feel the need to include it, we shouldn't either.
§137: You're right that there are some minor details in QS that would be nice to keep here. I think your suggestion is good, except that I would delete the last clause ('but Barahir returned . . .'), since the next paragraph in QS essentially says the same thing in much greater detail. RD-DB-25.5: Findegil wrote: Quote:
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Also, it seems redundant to say that Orodreth was the warden of the tower here, since a few sentences later we say again that he held the fortress as the steward of Finrod. RD-DB-31.5: My concern here is that Tolkien revised the passage in LQ1 and changed 'necromancy' to 'shadows and ghosts'. This may have been a mere stylistic change. It seems to me that in matters of style, we should always take Tolkien's revised version over earlier ones. I agree that making a connection to The Hobbit would be nice, but unless the revised version actually contradicted The Hobbit, I don't think we're justified in changing it. Quote:
RB-DB-33: Agreed, the dark cloud of fear is a good detail missing from GA. RB-DB-34: Agreed. RB-DB-35: Well, one could argue that the future strife is actually implicitly foretold in the words 'for that time'. However, I see nothing wrong with adding the more explicit statement from QS. My suggestion for this section, then, is; Quote:
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#43 |
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Hello now my humble oppinion.
RB-DB-07 add "now". RD-DB-31.5 add to GA information, "master of necromancy". So both texts I think a fortress can be besieged first and then hardly assaulted. So both texts RD-DB-28 agreed with Aiwendil. Yes now I see Amros is better, more appropriately and later than Amras. I'm going to change it in my version. Greetings Last edited by gondowe; 11-25-2010 at 01:31 PM. |
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#44 |
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RB-DB-07: Okay, we skip the 'now'.
§137: Agreed. RB-DB-25.5: Your suggestion is good. RB-DB-28: Interristing line of thinking. Looking at the beginning of the Battle were QS states two times that Balrogs were involved (see §134 before and behind RD-DB-05) this is not the case in GA §145. And the same is true for QS §140 were it si said that 'the valour of the Elves and Men of the North, which neither Orc nor Balrog could yet overcome' which is missing from GA §147. In GA Balrogs are not mentioned at all in this Battle. Cosequently this would be again a case of 'By By, Balrogs'! I agree about Orordreth and teh reduntance of him beeing The Warden of the Tower. RB-DB-31.5: Okay, okay, yes it would be against our rules. And in addition it si redundant since a master of necromancy is a master of shadows and ghosts. After RD-DB-32: I don't think that there is realy a diference in the course of the battle in QS and GA at this point at least non that we cold find. In QS Sauron 'took Minastirith by assault' and that is all we get. In GASaurons 'host broke through and besieged ... Minas Trirth ... and this they took after bitter fighting, and Orodreth ... was driven out.' You simply can not drive some one out by a siege. Either the besiged makes an excrusion or you make an assault. From what we have in QS I thought it would be better to make it explicit that the final victory was an assault and not and excrusion of the defenders gone a miss. Seeing that Orodreth was already driven out, I do not agree that Celegrom and Curufin rescued him like Barahir rescued Fealgund. The words in GA that the brethern 'stemmed the tide for a while' suggest for me rather that they rescued Orodreth during a flight in which he was hoplessly outnumbered and in danger to be overrun simply by a very fast advance of his enemy. I picture the situation of Orodreth like this: He had only a very small host left. The when they drove him out the enemy was directly on his heels. When he would have turned to defend his retreat the enemy would have closed him in. But the enemy was to near to run simply without defence. Thus he had no chance to escape with out help. What the cavalary of Celegrom and Curufin did was defending Orodreth retreat so that he cold lay the necessary distance between his host and the enemy and then they cold outrun the enemy because of the greater fastness of their mounted host. Respectfuly Findegil |
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#45 |
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Good to see you, Gondowe!
RD-DB-07: Findegil agrees to leave out the "now", but Gondowe votes to add it. Again, it's ultimately not a very important point, but my preference remains to leave it out. RD-DB-31.5: Again, Findegil agrees to adopt the revised version but Gondowe prefers to add in "master of necromancy". But here I think our principles clearly dictate the former approach. RD-DB-32: You make a good argument, Findegil, concerning the course of the battle. My thinking was that an assault and a siege are not mutually exclusive - i.e. while the assault was being made, Sauron could still have some forces forming a perimeter around the island, preventing escape. Then when Orodreth was driven from the tower, he would still have been trapped within Sauron's siege-perimeter. This is where I imagined Celegorm and Curufin arriving, cutting through Sauron's lines, and providing Orodreth with a route of escape, while holding off any pursuit. However, re-reading the passage in GA I think that your version fits better. Still, if (as we agree) the story in GA makes sense in itself and is essentially the same as the story in QS, why do we need to change the passage at all? In other words, if in the GA version Sauron already takes the fortress by assault (even if that particular word is not used), why do we need to add the statement that he took it by assault from QS? |
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#46 | |
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RD-DB-32:
Aiwendil wrote: Quote:
Respectfuly Findegil |
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#47 | ||||||
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Quote:
If you really feel that adding the word "assault" from QS is critical, though, perhaps we could make the slightly smaller change: Quote:
§144: Where QS has "And Morgoth came", GA has "Then Morgoth came", beginning a new paragraph. I would follow GA in this, both because it is later and because we have taken the fuller account of Fingolfin's challenge that immediately precedes it in GA. Quote:
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§146: For a change, let me be the one to suggest an addition from to the text to provide more vivid detail! Here our text as it stands is straight from QS, but I would add something from GA: Quote:
§147: In taking this section from QS, we miss the statement in GA that there was lamentation in Gondolin when Thorondor brought news of Fingolfin's fall, because many of the people were of Fingolfin's house. However, I fear it would be bad prose to say have "There was lamentation in Gondolin when . . ." followed, just a few sentences later, by "There was lamentation in Hithlum when . . .". Perhaps, then, we could justify combining the sentences, with some slight editorial work: Quote:
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#48 | |
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RB-DB-32: Yes, my feeling that "assault" is a justified clarification. And your proposed sentence works well for me.
§144: I agree to the change form "And Morgoth came." to "Then Morgoth came." including a new §. This might be a small matter, but I would rather keep the "silver" at the first place and delet it in the other one. In the first place it corrosponds very nice to the "brazen gate". RB-DF-04: I agree. We will eleiminate that addition. §146 / RB-DF-04.5: That is a nice addition. I agreeto take it. §147 / RB-DF-07.5: I agree that we should mention Gondolin here. But I think we should make the addition a bit diffrent: Quote:
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#49 |
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After we skipt the Balrogs from the host of Sauron that toke Tol Sirion, what do we do with the Balrogs in the rest of the battle?
In my oppinion, we should keep them. It seems more then logical that Balrogs were the leaders of Morgoth' hosts. In the east the force was led by Glaurung. But who was the leader in the west? Not Sauron, because the Western host still held Fingolfin pinned in the Ered Wethrin while Sauron took Tol Sirion. I think that Gothmog is the natrual choice. And thus 'neither Orc nor Balrog could yet overcome{,} Hithlum'. Respectfuly Findegil |
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#50 | |||||||||||
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My first post, please be nice ;-)
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If both statements should be combined, I would rather have [QUOTE=GA] There was lamentation in Gondolin when Thorondor brought the tidings, for many of the people of the hidden city were Noldor of Fingolfin's house; and <QS in Hithlum > also; but Fingon... [QUOTE] Of course, that's a quite ambiguous sentence. Maybe it would be best to keep the two statements separate and alter the second slightly after the description of Fingon's feelings in QS (is that allowed?): Quote:
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#51 | ||
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Welcome to this part of the downs Ekimeniso!
We try to be nice to anybody who takes part in our discussion. We much to seldom have guests or new participants. RB-DF-03.5: Two times 'silver' in §144: I suggested them same, but your reasons are even more confincing them mine. RB-DF-04b: The image of the lonley tree in the storm and the blackness of the shield: About the black shield: to name the shield black when in the next moment it is discribed as 'sable unblazoned' is redundant enough. The slight diffrence does not warrant a change. But the image of the lonley tree is diffrent. I am not confinced that it is necessary, but I will give it a try to incooperate it a bit more fluent (see below). RB-DF-04.5: the eoching cries in the northland: I agree that this might be helpfull to hold, since it makes it more clear were Morogoths host fell upon their faces. So we would get: Quote:
Probably we should bring that in much ealier. Turgon learned about tthe death of Fingolfin when Thorondor brought the body to the Echoriad, but Fingon learned the same from the return of Rochalor without rider I would guess. So what about this: Quote:
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#52 | |||||||
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Maybe my English skills are too limited to formulate a better amalgam of the two sources in this case, but I tried this: Quote:
RB-DF-07.5: The lamentation in Gondolin: Quote:
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#53 | ||
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One quick question:
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#54 | |||
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RB-DF-04b:
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RB-DF-07.5: I don't think we had the suggestion to put in the lamentation in Gondolin at the point Fingolfin is buried before. I like your suggestion to add it even before the building of the cairn. But I would leave Turgons action as in subordinate clause and hold then 'him'. Also we might chnage Gondolin in one place, becuase other wise we get a bad style by our emendation. Either we use 'Tumladen' in the first place or 'in the City' in the second. I prefer 'Tumladen' in the first, because 'in the city' would only move the problem to a double 'city': Quote:
I did not consider to take up the full sentence when I suggested the addition (don't ask me why), but I see that it will work better with that clause: Quote:
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#55 | |
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I agree on all points
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#56 | ||
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[QUOTE=Findegil;597184]Part three of the text:
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2. "pursuing them by..." sounds ungrammatical to me 3. Should be Anfauglith Maybe: Quote:
Last edited by Ekimeniso; 01-10-2011 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Inserted "Maybe:" |
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#57 |
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RB-SE-04:
I agree to your suggestion how to deal with the redundancy. But I am not sure that we could not still use 'Fauglith'. The full name was Dor-na-Fauglith 'Land of the Gasping Dust'. Anfauglith would then be 'The Gasping Dust' and Fauglith simply 'Gasping Dust'. Respectfuly Findegil |
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#58 | |
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But something different: how are the changes of the course of events in the Shibboleth generally treated? In this case Fingon's kingship of the Noldor... |
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#59 |
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Kingship of Fingon: I do not think that we must make a change for that. The sentence does allow the kingship that Fingon took up to be only that of the Noldor in Hithlum. Other wise we could simply skip 'of the Noldor', if that is thought to be better.
Respectfuly Findegil |
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#60 |
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One thing:
I don't know if this was discussed in another thread, but although the professor himself wrote in LQ that Thorondor was living in Crissaegrin, for some reason (I suppose due to the allusion in UT, earlier than the revision of the QS) I had taken the decision of place the home of Eagles in Thangorodrim and from the dead of Fingolfin tell that the eagles started living in Crissaegrin. It would be easier for Thorondor and more coherent, that came from Thangorodrim than Crissaegrin, much further. Perhaps the professor careless forgot it, when revising QS. What do you think? |
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#61 | |
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#62 | |||
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RB-DF-03.5: Ekimeniso's argument about which 'silver' to retain is persuasive, so let's keep the first 'silver' and remove the second.
RB-DF-04: Actually, I don't think that the mixed metaphor (tower vs. storm) in itself is a problem, since Tolkien himself uses both of these images in QS. However, I don't think that adding the detail of Fingolfin as a lonely tree to the storm-metaphor is adequate justification for editing Tolkien's prose on so fine a level. I say pick either the QS or GA version of the passage and use that - and my inclination is to use QS since it is the fuller account and the base text for the sentences immediately before and after. RB-DF-04.5: I have no problem with adding the detail of the echo from GA. Findegil proposes: Quote:
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RB-DF-09: In QS, the flight of the Beorians and the situation of Barahir and his twelve companions is told (QS §138-139) just after the rescue of Felagund, significantly before the account of Fingolfin's death. In GA, the narrative turns away from Barahir after the rescue of Felagund and only comes back to him and his people after telling of Fingolfin's death (in GA §158-159). The solution adopted in Findegil's text is to retain QS §138 where it stands, remove §139, and then insert GA §158-159 after the death of Fingolfin. This seems to me to be problematic. Even though we have deleted QS §139, there is still redundancy between §138 and GA §158-159; the flight of most of Barahir's people and the transformation of the highland forest into the dreadful Taur-nu-Fuin are both repeated. I think we should pick one place or the other and put all the material about Barahir there - so either remove QS §138-139 or remove GA §158-159, and make any appropriate additions to the retained version from the removed version. I would propose to remove QS §138-139 and use GA §158-159 after the death of Fingolfin: Quote:
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#63 | |||
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RB-DF-03.5: Agreed.
RB-DF-04: Well, metaphors are a stylistic devices, therefor this change is one for style and not for any substance. RB-DF-04.2: Agreed. RB-DF-07.5: Okay, so what about this: Quote:
About The Shibboleth and how we deal with it: I do not remember that we ever discussed some of the matters that Ekimeniso brought up. When ever we made use of that work, we used the ideas given their (like the death of Amras in the burning ship). 'The rule of thump' (is this really an english proverb? it sounds very de{utssch-e}nglish to me) is rule 2.b): Quote:
For the case of the high-kingship i would suggest: Quote:
I think that this story was rejected by JRR Tolkien. But I have to look that up. Respectfuly Findegil Last edited by Findegil; 01-24-2011 at 03:09 PM. |
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#64 |
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Thorondor on Thangorodrim:
The former discussion on this point was very brief but it took place in this the thread about Tuor and his coming to Gondolin. The conclusion was to keep the dwelling on Thangorodrim but to be ambigiuse about time and reason for the remove to Crisseagrim. This decission was take especilly because of the passage after the fall of Fingolfin in LQS, were Thorondor comes from Crisseagrim. Respectfuly Findegil |
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#65 | ||||
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RB-DF-07.5: Hmm, I think some of my previous post got lost somehow - I meant to propose this emendation:
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Or we could take the same approach but move the sentence about Gondolin to the point Findegil suggests. I think that rather than changing 'Gondolin' to 'Tumladen', however, we could just remove the second 'Gondolin': Quote:
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#66 |
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RB-DF-07.5: 'There was lamentation there when ...' is not very good. I think we can simply skip the second 'there'. Otherwise I like your second suggestion.
About the Shibboleth: It seems to be a given that we will have to discuss this issue when we came agian to DoV. But for the moment we only have to make up our mind about the case of the high-kingship of the Noldor. And in my oppinion the change in Fingolfins behavior during the march is so significant that it can not be an oversight. Also it is connected to the core issue of the essay: the sindarin names of the decendence of Finwe. Respectfuly Findegil |
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#67 |
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#68 |
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'rule of thumb': Okay, what tricked me here was, that at least in my idiom of German their exists beside "Faustregel" also "Daumenregel", with slightly but sigificant diffrences. While a "Faustregel" is a reliable and approved approximation that does shorten the calculation significantly, a "Daumenregel" is just the utterance of the feeling someone has on the subject under investigation. So while a "Faustregel might be a bit beside the real result it does point into the right direction for sure, in contrast a "Daumenregel" might be complitly of track.
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#69 | ||
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Okay, I have gone through this thread to see were we are. As fare as I can say Aiwendil has commented to the Text up to §149. But I am not quite sure where he ended with his comments. The first possible place is just before RB-DF-10.
What is left as open point in the rest of the discussion is from my point of view: RB-DF-07.5: What about this to avoid the double Gondolin: Quote:
RB-DF-07 and RB-DF-07.7: I have given the number 07.7 to the proposed addition about the prefexion of Arfin to Finarfin: Quote:
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#70 |
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As in my version, the text of the Names of the descendants of Finwë is included as a part of the "whole" appendix of the Tongues, the explanation of the Arfin name can be read there. But it looks like well as you state here.
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#71 |
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RB-DF-07.5: I think Findegil's last suggestion is good.
RB-DF-07.7: As it stands, this addition is confusing - it sounds as if Finrod is adding a prefix to his own name rather than that of his father. Moreover, the linguistic note feels rather out of place in the midst of the narrative. If we must include this point here, perhaps a footnote quoting the 'Shibboleth' more directly would be better. I don't recall at the moment whether I had reviewed the changes past RB-DF-10; I'll see if I have any notes on them lying around. |
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#72 |
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Nice to read a pot from you Aiwendil!
RB-DF-07.7: I think we might skip that addition completly and add a direct qoute from the Shibboleth in th chapter 5 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië. Respectfuly Findegil |
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#73 | ||
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I'm glad to have finally made some time to get back into things here.
I agree about skipping RB-DF-07.7 here and adding the quote to 'Of Eldamar'. A few more comments for now: RB-DF-11: In the latest conception, 'Haladin' refers not to the folk of Brethil in general but only to the family of Haleth, so this should be: Quote:
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RB-DF-14: An account of Hurin and Huor in Gondolin also, of course, appears in our version of the 'Narn'. I looked back at the Narn thread to remind myself if we had discussed this issue there, but it seem that at the time we simply included the account in the Narn without deciding what to do in 'The Ruin of Beleriand' (if I'm missing someplace where we discussed this further, please let me know). On one level, I have to say I'm tempted to remove the account completely from this chapter since it seems redundant with the Narn. The problem with this, however, is that the Narn leaves out the main battle with the Orcs and its context in post-Bragollach Beleriand, focusing exclusively on Hurin and Huor. At the very least, I think we should stick entirely to QS here, since material introduced from GA is quite blatantly redundant with the Narn (which in this section is closely based on GA). §172: Again here, I am inclined to stick more closely to GA, as it seems to me that the additions from QS add only verbiage and not substance. It even seems to me that the statement in QS that 'the Orcs won many of the passes, and some came even into Mithrim' may contradict GA. In QS, only 'some' Orcs penetrated the mountains as far as Mithrim, and Fingon was able to drive them off himself; in GA, they penetrate the mountains in sufficient numbers that Fingon is 'outnumbered' and the Orcs are only driven off with the aid of Cirdan. I would take this whole paragraph from GA with no additions from QS. |
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#74 |
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RB-DF-11: Very good catch. Agreed.
RB-DF-12; -13: Your editing is good. Agreed. RB-DF-14: This was discussed under the labels NA-EX-05 and NA-TI-02b in the thread Narn I Chîn Húrin1: Túrins Fostering on page 1. My Posting #33 gives a good overview. I agree that the story now as our texts stand are told twice in diffrent words. I agree and tried to do as fare as possible that we should use only the text of QS to avoid redundant wording. If it is undisiered all together to have the story told twice I would rather skip here the passage dealing with Húrin and Hour alltogether, and not cut anything out of our Narn version. But if we do so it would be hard to find a reason for Turgon being mentioned here at all. I would rather let the story stand here told very briefly and then in an more ampel scale in the Narn. §172: I have to read both accounts again before further comments, but I think my interpretation was based on the view that there is diffrence between Hithlum and Mithrim. I will come back to this point. Respectfuly Findegil |
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#75 |
Wight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 245
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Hello fellows,
as for the change Haladin for Halethrim, I had seen it but, what can we do with the previous occurrences of Haladin in the Chapter 23 Of the Coming of the Edain & their Hauses and Lordships in Beleriand, f.e. named by Bëor, even when Haleth had not born. Perhaps it is a change not developed by the professor, or you think its an internal change? Greetings. |
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#76 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Good to see you, gondowe!
You make a good point that without 'Haladin' we have no general word to refer to the second kindred of the Edain prior to the chieftanship of Haleth. But really we are only dealing with two or three mentions of them before Haleth appears, and I think it would be a shame to let that prevent us from taking up the change. At worst, I expect we could refer to the people 'who later were called the Halethrim', or something along those lines. RB-DF-14: I agree completely that the version in the Narn should remain there, regardless of what we do here. But I'm still torn as to what to do here. I have to say, I'm somewhat inclined to reduce the whole episode here to a brief mention and say 'as is after told'. This would be much as in QS, the destruction of Barahir's band is mentioned in a single sentence in the present chapter and then the full story is told in 'Of Beren and Luthien'. It seems rather undesirable to me to tell the same story twice, even if it is in different words. But, like I said, I need to give it a little bit more thought. |
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#77 | ||
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Comments for the remainder of the chapter:
RB-SM-01: It seems to me that by adding this sentence from GA, we end up saying twice that the swarthy men came into Beleriand. I do see that the GA passage gives a more detailed picture of their movements and also adds the detail that the Dwarves had told Maedhros of their approach, but I think these could be worked in without the redundancy: Quote:
RB-SM-06: In QS, the statement that the people of Haleth 'dwelt to the southward in the woods by Sirion' explains their not being involved in the northern war initially. With our change here, it instead (purportedly) explains why they had little contact with the Easterlings. The thing is, it really doesn't explain that at all, since Brethil is not really any further south than the area in eastern Beleriand where the Easterlings settled. We could probably get away with just changing 'southward' to 'westward'. Also, I think that since this now forms the end of the section instead of leading into the account of the battle in Brethil, we should combine it with the previous sentence: Quote:
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#78 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,714
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At long last I have found the time answer:
§172: I agree that "winning the passes" is the same as "coming into Hithlum" and that therefore it is clear that after "the Orcs won many passes" the "Battle was joined at the very plains of Hithlum", but this redundance is already there in the text of the QS. In QS it is said, that "The Orcs won many of the passes, and some came even into Mithrim".What gives me pause is the "even" in this sentence. For me at least it suggests a further advance. This also agrees to my interpretation of the geography in which the plains of Hithlum reach fare to the north while Mithrim is the area directly around the lake. But haveing considering this, I think that my understanding of the movement of Morgoth army has changed. Either Tolkien changed his idea about as well, or he made himself more clear in the GA account. That army of Orcs did not come over the plain of Anfauglith. It did come from the furthest North down the coast and crossed not the passes of Ered Wethrin but that of the coastal mountain range. In view of this I agree to stick completly to the account of GA here. {Haladin}[Halethrim] as name for the third clan of Dúnedain: I agree with Aiwendil that we should seek a way around the problem Gondowe has brought up. The same is true for the House of Hador in some way. Hador was no longer the leader of that clan when they entered Beleriand (that was Marach) but still he gave the clan its well known name. Thus Tolkien gave us an example how to deal with this situation. RB-SM-01: Agreed. Very elegant solution. RB-SM-05: I tend to use GA Version I and mention both Ulfang and Bor in the Footnote. The construct of a sentence in brakets and an added Footnote to it, seems rather blocky in my view. RB-SM-06: I see your point. And I think you meant {southward}[westward]. But I am not absoulutley happy with that solution. For one the Easterlings settled in Lothlan and in the Lands south of Maedrons March. Both seemd to be more northern teretories. But I agree that thier is some doubt about it since Ulfang follwed Caranthir, how dwelt upon Amon Ered fare in the south. For two Hithlum is even further west then Brethil and for the folk of Hador some other reason is mentioned. The reason that is hinted at by the sentence is that the Halethrim were not in strong alliance with an elvish lord activley searching communication with the Feanorians. The Halethrim had contact to Thingol and Fealgund. Both not very freindly with Maedron of Caranthir. Thus their was no meeting to be expacted between elvish lords of southern Beleriand (Thingol and Felagund) with the Feanorians in which manish followers (Halethrim and Easterlings) would meet as well. Don't ask me how we should put that into our text. I have to think about that further. Respectfuly Findegil |
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#79 | |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,714
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RB-SM-06: Maybe we should not do all the thinking for our readers and let them make up their mind by themself. What about this:
Quote:
Respectfuly Findegil |
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#80 | |||
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Quote:
Quote:
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RB-SM-06: I suppose that will do. Are there any outstanding points that I've missed? If not, I think we're done with 'The Ruin of Beleriand'! |
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