WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Macalaure]

++Loslote

I won't vote for Nogrod or Autume, and the only alternative to throwing my vote away is to go for Lottie, who I don't really suspect anymore, but at least a little.

I'm too lazy to look right now, but didn't Wilwa and Inzil vote for the same person every Day?

Oh, and now that I see Nerwen's post, I realized that I overlooked some of Nogrod's.

Originally Posted by Nog

Who of you would stand up for her if someone made a case?

It would always depend on the quality of the case, of course, but in all probability: me.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Actually your suggestion of lynching me has nothing to do with my approval of the plan. Actually I have nothing to oppose being lynched as I'm most probably not being around that much in the few Days to come. But it's just the plain astonishment of how you are so sure Hestia is a (true) Seer? So how are you that confident? OR does it fit your position?

I mean tp has oftentimes good points to make but that shouldn't make you eat everything he says. Really. Did Hestia turnn into a seer - and into a real seer? How do you show me that so as I could believe it?

Unless you come with a plausible presentation of believable enough facts about that ultimate happy-scenario let's stick with what we have. And thence no double-seers or whatever you'd like to promise for lynching me..

Hey Wolfie, how does it feel to get caught?

Exactly why you were a good subject, for lack of a better word. And we don't know Hestia is the true seer. That's what the plan was supposed to tell us. I'm honestly hoping that Hestia would be the false seer, because then the true seer would know they were the true seer and would still be safe. Whether the plan actually would work or not I don't know, because of revenge kills and other factors, but in theory the plan could work. And yes, it fits my position. It fits my position of getting rid of what I consider a major threat (that's you, love) and at the same time allowing the gifteds to learn the truth of their gift. You have a problem with the seers being clear on their dreams why?

Also, I read the narration and made the connection myself. Hestia is "seeing things she never before thought possible", which could mean anything, it's true. However, I think Glirdan wouldn't screw with us that much. (At least I hope.) What makes you think that Phantom is some kind of god (in non-game terms here) that I'm just going to blindly follow? Do you think that little of me, or are you trying to stir up more trouble to keep suspicion away from/direct it toward someone?

I second Nerwen. I'm sorry, but you're being a severe letdown in this game. If there's something wrong I'm more than happy to let this go, but I simply can't decide why you're acting so out of normal lovely Nog character and being a complete mess.

Are you all right? Do I need to worry about you or lynch you? Or both?

*goes back to Foley analysis*

EDIT: x'd with Papa Lupine

[Nogrod]

Oh just forgot... let Hestia (or someone with real seer-abilities) dream me. That's the nice part of your plan Sally.

Let's get this thing clear so that we can concentrate on more pressing things.

*Kick Adonis wolves!*

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I'm too lazy to look right now, but didn't Wilwa and Inzil vote for the same person every Day?

As a matter of fact, we did! You and Nog voted the same Day 1 and Day 2. We've got you beat so far, but you two still have time to synchronise.

[the phantom]

Rikae- about Mac's supposed hints... I'm assuming you're just pressuring/testing him? Because honestly. I love to look for Seer hints, and his previous post that you pointed to was pretty much a nothing so far as I'm concerned. I'm not saying you're suspicious looking, but you are being too paranoid.

Lalaith- you voted for Lottie? *shakes head* I thought you read more carefully than that.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Phantom - something about him today has been rubbing me the wrong way... maybe it's his assault on Sally which I think is very unfounded or his strong desire to see me lynched...

How is my assault unfounded? She proposed something that would show the Wolves who the Seer is and get the Rangers occupied, thus minimizing the chances of a repeat of last night, for a benefit that is questionable (the Seer may not even be real). That's not difficult to understand. And you categorize my desire to lynch you as "strong"? Exactly how much have I attacked you? I mean- earlier today Mac was complaining that I wasn't going after anyone at all. You're majorly exaggerating.

Originally Posted by Mira

Also, in a desperate attempt to not fall back asleep and have more weird dreams, I am going to go look at phantom

*stalks to Facebook*

...

Okay, now I'm going to go analyze his posts.

I love you for that, Meeper, but I'm afraid that's all I have nice to say about you, as you say some insane things in your post about me. Like, seriously. Way lame.

Originally Posted by Phantom

I had no plans for lynching you, but seeing as you are expecting it- well, I would hate to let you down.

Originally Posted by Meeper

The only reason to not have plans to lynch someone is because you're furry and they're furry. Or you know something the rest of us don't, which is highly unlikely this early in the game.

*rolls eyes*
1) It was obviously a joke to start with.
2) When first entering the game you don't have PLANS to lynch ANYONE!! Duh!! How could you possibly have someone singled out for lynching already? That point is just really ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Meeper

57 - Defends Romeo and Juliet analogy as not meant to be true to the original tale and just for demonstration purposes.
As a fairly well educated young man (heh) I find it hard to believe that this was an innocent slip, but can't figure out what it would mean if it's not, especially since player gender aren't tied to their character genders.

How can you possibly make something of an example? I was attempting to demonstrate a situation involving loyalties of lovers, so R&J was the first thing that popped to mind. But how can you fault me for which one died first when in fact in the play BOTH of them died, where as my example was about a situation demonstrating the loyalties of a lover who remains alive? It had nothing whatsoever to do with the plot of the play. I mean... this is a nonsensical thing to even bother commenting on.

Originally Posted by Meeper

In 258 he says he thinks Steve is innocent. Then he votes him for no apparent reason other than not wanting to jump on the BG wagon. Personally, I'd rather bandwagon than vote for someone I had said was probably innocent.

I didn't think either of them were Wolves, and I felt bad for BG, so I went for Steve. I mean- on Day 1 what is so weird about that?

So yeah- I'm not even going to say you're grasping at straws. That gives you too much credit. Seriously, shape it up.

(edit: x-posted with tons of people)

[Folwren]

I'm here, just popping in to say that I'm around, am reading what has happened toDay and writing a post at the same time.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

How can you possibly make something of an example? I was attempting to demonstrate a situation involving loyalties of lovers, so R&J was the first thing that popped to mind. But how can you fault me for which one died first when in fact in the play BOTH of them died, where as my example was about a situation demonstrating the loyalties of a lover who remains alive? It had nothing whatsoever to do with the plot of the play. I mean... this is a stupid thing to even bother commenting on.

Oh yes, I meant to comment on that earlier. Meeper, well... you've said it yourself: what kind of non-innocent slip could that possibly be?

[autume98]

I have to say that I don't like this what could be the beginning of a Lottie wagon at all. Obviously I don't like the votes towards me, but I'm really not liking the votes for Lottie either. I can't say I like Mira's vote for phantom. I'm really not sure what to think about her. She pops in then heads out, and her votes haven't sat well with me from the beginning. I understand family stuff coming up, but what about Day one and toDay?

Edit: x-ed with Nerwen

[Macalaure]

Would everybody drop it a notch, please? Heated arguments are one thing, and it's all been fun for a while, but personal attacks and offenses are really going too far now.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

I mean tp has oftentimes good points to make but that shouldn't make you eat everything he says. Really. Did Hestia turnn into a seer - and into a real seer? How do you show me that so as I could believe it?

Dude, are you kidding me?

1) Glirdan practically spells it out in the narrative that Hestia is a Seer now.

2) And where have I stated that we knew she was the real Seer? I'm quite aware that she may be false, and that's part of the reason I was against Sally's plan! (The Rangers might be protecting someone useless.)

Ah, and Meeper carried her insanity further by voting for me. Her reasoning is so awful that I almost want to suspect her for it. *grits teeth* But I don't. I still feel good about her. But she's not doing us any favors.

And Mac- another Lottie vote? I'm telling you, she's clean.

And is this day turning into Tum versus Lottie? I'm totally not liking this.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And is this day turning into Tum versus Lottie? I'm totally not liking this.

Not liking that either are up on the menu, or just that Lottie is? If the latter, I agree.

[Nienna]

Mmk so I'm still around but if things don't start happening I'm going to go to bed probably before deadline. Just letting everyone know.

I'd much prefer Tum over Lottie. Just mentioning.

[the phantom]

Inzil- neither is my preference.

And does anyone have a tally?

[satansaloser2005]

Phantom, dear, the point of that plan was to make sure that the rangers weren't protecting someone useless.

Let me spell it out for you (and improve it a bit, since I didn't completely plot it out).

1. ToNight, Hestia would dream of Nogrod (or someone else that seemed a common suspect, for that matter).
2. ToMorrow, Hestia would come out.
3. Tomorrow, we would lynch the person Hestia dreamed.
4. If the person's role is what Hestia was told, we know Hestia is the real seer, and the rangers protect him/her. If the person's role isn't, the rangers can still protect him/her, but not of course on as strict a basis because Hestia's basically an ordo.

Of course if we agree on toMorrow's lynch toDay (which I actually don't want to do, but it's necessary for the plan if we pull it off like this) Hestia doesn't have to come out, instead just dreaming of Player X and finding out their validity at the end of the Day. Apollo could of course dream of that person as well, but that'd be a bit silly.


Again, I don't care about the plan, like whether we do it or not, but I don't see why people are saying it's so illogical. Personally, I'd like to know if I was the real seer or not. Maybe it's just me, but I think it would be helpful to the village (especially if we didn't have Hestia come out and both seers kept to the shadows and just learned their validity and were able to operate as normal).


EDIT: x'd since Phantom's 730. Darn it, I want to get my Foley analysis pasted in but keep getting distracted by other posts. Back in a tick.

EDIT #2: I had "seers protecting someone useless" at first, but fixed it. Whoops.

[Nienna]

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lal --> Lottie (2)
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum (2)
Mira --> Phantom
Mac --> Lottie (3)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Inzil- neither is my preference.

Who would you prefer then?

[Rikae]

Well, Tum, you'll be pleased to know that toDay I won't be making a throwaway vote, since someone who actually has votes looks reasonably suspicious to me. It doesn't seem as if any of my other suspects are going to be on the chopping block, so...

++Autume

Sorry, Phantom.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Nienna

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lal --> Lottie (2)
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum (2)
Mira --> Phantom
Mac --> Lottie (3)

There are a total of 17 votes today. Six have been used leaving 11 left. That gives us a possible 11 votes. We need to use these votes wisely.

Edit: x-ed with Rikae

[the phantom]

Inzil- I would prefer Nog, and I'd definitely give Sally a try. I'd also be somewhat willing to go for Kath maybe. Perhaps Lalaith even, as given what I said to her before and where she ended up... I think she's trying to be wrong.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by autume98

There are a total of 17 votes today. Six have been used leaving 11 left. That gives us a possible 11 votes. We need to use these votes wisely.

Edit: x-ed with Rikae

Well I'm thinking that Kath and Shasta probably won't show up.

[satansaloser2005]

Phantom, tell me what's wrong with my plan. Don't tell me that you don't like it, tell me why you think it's so evil. This isn't half as whack as some of the stuff you've come up with in the past, so why am I evil for having an independent thought? I'm the queen of independent thoughts, for gods' sake, so tell me why I'm denied them?

I don't think I understand. I also don't understand why Nog apparently thinks I'm a stupid groupie.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by me

As a matter of fact, we did! You and Nog voted the same Day 1 and Day 2. We've got you beat so far, but you two still have time to synchronise.

Ah, you already did tie us when you wrote that. And there was me thinking Nog hadn't voted yet.

x/d with all since Rikae

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nienna

Well I'm thinking that Kath and Shasta probably won't show up.

This.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Nienna

Well I'm thinking that Kath and Shasta probably won't show up.

Which would mean we have eight votes.

Edit: x-ed with Sally, Zil, and Sally

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Inzil- I would prefer Nog, and I'd definitely give Sally a try. I'd also be somewhat willing to go for Kath maybe. Perhaps Lalaith even, as given what I said to her before and where she ended up... I think she's trying to be wrong.

I wasn't adverse to Nog, but I couldn't let Tum go another Day. As for your other three, Lal might give me the nearest thing to an uneasy feeling, but not enough to get me to vote her now.

x/d with Sally and Tum.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Sally

Phantom, tell me what's wrong with my plan. Don't tell me that you don't like it, tell me why you think it's so evil.

No, Sally. No.

I've already done that. More than once. I wasn't using an invisible font. And no one seems to get my objections anyway, so forget it. I'm done with this.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Sorry, Phantom

Meh, whatever. At least you didn't vote Lottie. Of the two that's the one I'm the most confident about. Maybe Tum will pan out for us? Doubt it- but hope.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

No, Sally. No.

I've already done that. More than once. I wasn't using an invisible font. And no one seems to get my objections anyway, so forget it. I'm done with this.

Erm, no, not really. Finding out which seer is which is not bad. I understand the flaw with them coming out, and it's a very valid point; we can't possibly risk the only legitimate seer we have, and I should have considered that further when I thought of the plan in the first place. I get that bit, but I don't understand why giving the seers added clarification is such an evil pursuit. Why don't you want the seers to know if their dreams are correct? Why don't you want them to have information?

[Nienna]

Children from Nebraska: can we be done? - love me.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nienna

Children from Nebraska: can we be done? - love me.

Oi, don't look at me! I'm trying to be a helpful little girl. *whimpers* Mummy?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Nogrod, kindly go back, read my post and answer my actual points rather than your strawman version thereof.

And that woulld be like post #? Sorry too late to for me to go skimming over alll the unrelated stuff + all the nonsense. So where is it, if there is it? And really, a post that has been posted already... you are free to make a new one but let's then drop this moral high-ground you're climbing for...

I am getting very tired of you, indeed. At best, you've spent the entire game causing massive confusion and wasting everyone's time. I don't know what's up with you, but... honestly, whatever you are, why are you being such a jerk?

Hey! Let's be decent out there! We have our roles, but let's not call each other jerks? If you're an innocent then trust me, we'll hopefully gain from this - and if you're not - then try to cope with it as a losing wolf...

And really, wasting everybody's time... the last Day (D2) I felt you were the one -with a few others who called for the same things - that were taking all my time! I had no chance of doing anything on D2 as all my time went into answering your ridiculous suspicions, and one's of those who backed you!

Also, it was not me but you who came back again and again too those issues we had already talked over (I tried to say time and time again that let's proceed from here). Were those others your lupine-friends or where they just ones to use you, I don't know.

That's the basic scenario from my POV. If someone says something then the lazy vultures come circling around without no need to give up anything themselves... they're vultures, you know. And the only substance they have is borrowed by those who really try to do something...

Heated battles are one thing, but the way you're been acting takes a lot of the fun out of the game.

Seriously? I mean if yes, then I have to consider refraining from these multi-role games. I have nothing against you as a person and I really feel bad if that is the feeling you have - if you're innocent that is; as a wolf you need to be prepared to take everything, you knew that?

But seriously, if you're honestlly feeling bad I will apologise immediately...

*Apologises*

And I can always drop out - it would be more or less easy to me as I'm not sure how much I can be online on the next Day - or the one after that. Really my intention is never to make someone feel personally bad.

Games are games and no one should be offended or left feeling wounded because of it.



Anyway, back to the game-related questions...

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I don't know what this means, but it sounds like a threat. Is it?

Nope. Read it as you like. But let me say your reading of it that way makes you look worse than better...

And why are you so interested in saving Lottie? I mean why do you especially ask for my reasons to suspect her?

Or why do you think my off-hand "counter-attack on Greenie"didn't loook good? Looking at how she's been treating me I think mine was even easier than any immediate retalitation so many hear tend to do. And at the same time I was trying to find out who would stretch their necks for her - if she was a wolf I think she could very well be - okay, I don't need to explain you these basics to you, do Í?

[satansaloser2005]

Nog, I don't want you to leave. I want you to help the village. If you need to go, don't make us lose an innocent (as you claim) to modkill and then possibly lynch another. (Yes, I know, we could catch a wolf toMorrow, but we could not as well.) If our seer(s) dream you toNight we'll be able to gauge the validity of their dreams based on your role. You'd be helping the village immensely, both in reducing the kill count (by keeping our loss down to one toMorrow, at least in theory) and in helping us obtain information for the seers.

Personally, I don't care which seer is which. In my ideal world they can stay hidden for Days, even the rest of the game, rather than parading around and cheapening the game with their knowledge and doing our work for us. I'm fine with not knowing who they are or which is which. I just think they should know.

[the phantom]

Sally- you obviously didn't read everything I said. Want to know why my Werewolf alarm went off? I'll say it slowly so that you don't miss it. It wasn't necessarily due to the Seer revealing, but due to the fact that-

...it... keeps.... the... Rangers... busy.... which... would... avoid... a... repeat... of.... the... save... last... night... which... had... to... be... the... number... one... thing... on... the... minds... of... the... Wolves... after... that.... incident... And... better.... yet... it... may... turn... out... to... be... a... worthless... Seer.... anyway.... plus... the... Seer... will... know... soon... enough... without... having... to... fabricate... some.... fake.... test.... plus... it's... weird... that... you're... trying... to... set.... up... tomorrow's... lynch.... today.

[autume98]

So I've been thinking. I know I'm innocent. I really don't feel like getting lynched toDay. Is there anyone else you feel who is more guilty looking than I? Obviously I haven't been doing a good job at proving my innocence. I feel like I'm letting the village down, and I really don't like that. I wish I knew what to do to help you see that I'm innocent. Alas, I'm pretty much out of ideas other than telling you we need to look for somebody else to lynch. I'd be willing to go for any that phantom mentioned earlier. I just need enough people to do that.

Edit: x-ed with Nog, Sally, phantom

[Folwren]

Good grief! I just finished reading everything. I will look over the notes I wrote, try to make them make sense, and then post them and then maybe attempt to vote.

I'd just like to say...people...this may be a game and we may all know we like each other, but please try to be nice. I'm not even talking so much about Nogrod and Nerwen, although things have gotten somewhat nasty there, but...be nice to Autume, folks. Please. I don't mean to change your opinion of her, but at least be all the way civil, and not just half-way decent to her.

-- Foley

Edit: Cross posted with Sally, Phantom, and Tum.

[Nogrod]

So the phantom, anyone but Lottie?

How does this sound like a lover-stuff to me?

And you know one of every lover-pair is a wolf.

[Folwren]

Okay, my notes turned into a hopefully readable post:

Nogrod’s reasoning seems really screwy. Nerwen hits the nail on the head when she evaluates what she dubs his ‘fork reasoning’. However, it is hard for me to take everything Nerwen says completely seriously. The first day or two, I felt some suspicion towards her, though I could not and still cannot say exactly why. (It does not help that I did not read all of Day 2 very thoroughly.)

But then I read Nogrod’s first post after returning, post number 666 (good blazes, what a number!). He seemed genuinely angry. Wow, it’d be nice if he could put that much feeling into his RPG posts. (I love you Nogrod, really do.) I have nothing definite to say concerning this, but in my mind, he seemed to refute Nerwen’s post against him pretty darn well. He also seemed to have feeling that a true guilty wouldn’t have.

Although it is true that his posts do not necessarily hold a great deal of meat in them, they seem un-wolfish to me. So, now I’m suspecting both Nogrod and Nerwen, but am leaning more towards Nerwen being guilty. NOT because of what Nogrod said, but because of my previous gut feeling about Nerwen.

--

At first, Lottie’s post about Tum made little sense to me (as has been noted by others) and my impression of Tum after reading half of it (I confess, I didn’t read it all) was that, “She’s a newbie and likely is innocent. If she’s new, it’s not really surprising she agrees with everyone.”

But then I started to see different quotes from her (mostly, her talk about Eonwe being innocent, her comment about Rikae and then in post 600 she takes it back) and saw how absolutely non-uniform they all were and my alarm bells started going off in my head.

Concerning Tum’s post 670 – Sadly shallow. I don’t like saying mean things about people, but that was my impression. Why’d she probably vote for Sally or Rikae when she thought Nogrod was looking more and more suspicious?

--

I noted the few accusations about Phantom, and I still hold to my opinion that I briefly stated yesterday and say that I am getting a feeling that he is innocent.

I know this is a bone of contention for Sally. Why did I defend him when there had been few votes against him? Answer: I had absolutely NO time on my hands to read the thread, I saw he was being voted for, voting time had barely started, and I just wanted to say I thought he wasn’t a wolf. I feared that many people might suspect him and vote for him, that is all.

--

I do not understand why everyone is saying we have two seers. I seriously need to go back and check the admin thread, but I don’t have time tonight and won’t have time tomorrow, neither. Blah.

Sally’s plan of possibly sacrificing Hestia seemed dangerous. Now, understand that as I write this, I don’t quite understand what part exactly Hestia plays and all, or how we even know who Hestia is. Whatever. It seemed odd to be willing to sacrifice her. BUT, as Mac said in post 620, it didn’t seem like a plan a wolf would put forth. My opinion of her is uncertain.

--

Something that has stood out to me twice by the time I get to post 632 is that Mac says that he distrusts Inzil and Wilwa, but he cannot say why. Odd that he should even mention that he has a gut feeling….I don’t think a wolf would do that. I think that a wolf would find something to peg on someone, instead of just saying, “I have a feeling, but I don’t know why….”

--

Okay......I'm posting this without knowing if it's any good at all, but I need to get it out, because I think I'm almost out of time.

[Glirdan]

Forty minutes left to vote people.

Tally is as follows

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lalaith --> Lottie 2
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum 2
Mira --> phantom
Mac --> Lottie 3
Rikae --> Tum 3

[Nienna]

Ok kids, I can no longer keep my eyes open. I don't like any of Phantom's suggestions and Tum is my best suspect.

++Tum

Which leaves the votes at:

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lal --> Lottie
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum
Mira --> Phantom
Mac --> Lottie (3)
Rikae --> Tum
Nienna --> Tum (4)

[the phantom]

I'm not a lover, Nog, and I'd bet my bank account that Lottie isn't either. I mean, fine, if you're so sure about it, why don't you bet your life? Lynch her, and if I'm right then you give up without a fight tomorrow. How's that?

[autume98]

Ok. I was really hoping I didn't have to do this, but it looks like do this or die.

If it's the wrong move I'm sorry. I'm the other Seer. I dreamt last night that Rikae was a wolf. Which is why I was going after her today.