WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

*speaking of which, what do you Skip think? Do you think it probable Greenie dreamt of you?

I dunno, I'd like to think so. From an in-game perspective it's difficult to say. Won't go through Greenie's posts now looking for clues but the way I recall things she called me probably innocent or something to that effect. So did lots of other people. And I was hardly the only one Greenie called innocent... From a RL-perspective I think you or Agan are much better judges than me.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

But briefly, voting for yourself like that Morsul is just... wrong.

Sometimes people do it (do you know Nilpaurion Felagund? It was his trademark). And I must admit that I can understand Morsul's point: if he's innocent (which I think he is) and everybody just keeps suspecting him, it can get quite frustrating. Like, lynch me now and be done with it!

Originally Posted by skip

And a vote on me. Have been half-expecting that for a while now and frankly I'm surprised it took so long.

Why? Do you have a reason to expect people would vote for you?

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

the case is so good that it is suspicious. Not sure if that makes sense, but it doesn't have the innocent trademark of being unsure.

Hey that's not fair!
And what do you mean by unsure? I read her posts and wrote what impressions I got. Then I made my conclusion about her based on the said impressions. I'm not sure she's guilty, but I just fail to see why appearing unsure when making an analysis is a sign of innocence.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Agan - would be such typical wolf-Agan to bring forwards points that make herself look worse in order to make herself look more innocent. To be honest the only wolf-vote being Nog on Day4 doesn't look good on her, nor does the pursuit of lynchable Inzil on the Days when Sally or Glirdy was in danger.

What points are you talking about? When I said it's more likely Nog's fellow didn't try to save him, I didn't consider it something that would somehow incriminate me. You mean I shouldn't say anything that doesn't look entirely good on me because if I do it means I'm a wolf, even if it was helpful to us? And really I'm getting slightly bothered about the fact that you keep saying Nog was my & Shasta's first wolf-vote. Or do you know for sure that Mira and Morsul are innocent?
As for the "lynchable Inzil", you might notice it was partly my effort that made him lynchable - because he was my top suspect. Glirdy and sally pretty much slipped under my radar all the time - which you should know they wouldn't have done if I had been their fellow.
I don't like your points against me. They're not enough to make me think you're a wolf after all you've done, it's just that they're bad.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

...even if he was innocent, his death would be more useful than the possible death of another innocent.

That's some pretty cold reasoning, Brinn.

If you are still around Nerwen (what time is it in Oz now?) I'd like to know what you mean by "over-literal"?

Originally Posted by skip

Just checking in briefly without having read anything in detail but Morsul, this is a very incriminating statement. A slip of the tongue perhaps, but one that could cost you your head.

When I read this the first thing I thought of was: if he were an ordo and not a wolf, he'd not be insane for putting the wolves up for the slaughter, he'd be a hero and a trailblazer for picking out the enemies of the village. Isn't that merely a literal interpretation of a statement not intended to be anything but literal? Agree with Agan that it easily could be an honest mistake though.

Here's Morsul's response btw:

and if it does all I can say is we as a village had a good run figures We'd lynch an innocent eventually...

As for the rest, in the scenario that me and Nogrod were the remaining wolves, do you really think we would decide that I'd try to vote Shasta (on admittedly rather weak grounds) and by that trying to save Nog, although it was very unlikely this rescue attempt would succeed? After seemingly trying to defend Glirdan on the previous Day?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Comments: At this point Nogwolf, and the likelihood that Greenie had been killed for her suspicion of him, had been much talked about... yet Skip seems weirdly oblivious to this. If it wasn't for his quoting somebody-or-other, I'd think he hadn't read the thread.

Here you'd be right. Have had a rather busy week with a cold on top of that and I'm struggling to catch up just now.

In retrospect Nogrod did looked a likelier wolf than Shasta. Sally And Glirdan I'm still amazed we nailed so quickly and still don't really understand just how it happened. After a quick review I can see why Nogrod was lynched, though. At the time of voting however I was behind in the reading (still am, but slightly less so) and I'm just loath to jump on a bandwagon without good reason.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Why? Do you have a reason to expect people would vote for you?

Well, the points that Nerwen brought up are fairly obvious, aren't they. Not voting on now proved wolves the last two days and seemingly standing up for at least one of them, namely Glirdan. With result in hand these points gave me a good night's IC sleep confident that the remaining wolf would not come after me.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Greenie was the Seer?!

I must have spent an hour earlier today putting all my points against her into one big case, and see where it gets me.

I don't know, but his reaction does seem a bit fake to me.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, naturally we have no guarantee Greenie dreamt a wolf at all. However, since she stated suspicion of Nogrod yesterDay, and indeed voted him, and since Nogrod was starting to creep me out towards the end of yesterDay, I think he's worth looking at. Besides, he's been under my radar most of the game.

Originally Posted by Nerwen after Nog Day 1 analysis

General Remarks: Well, while #128 is the only single post I'd call definitely furry-looking, from Nog's overall Day One posting I shouldn't be that *surprised* if he turns out a wolf. I won't put it stronger than that– later Days may give a different picture. Also, I haven't yet looked at what the known wolves said about him– as I recall, not much.

Originally Posted by Nerwen after Nog Day 2 analysis

Meh... Can't really tell either way– he's given so little to go on. No wonder he's been under the radar! This could be Nogwolf testing the wind, then resigning himself to losing a comrade and taking a while to decide which one to vote for– or innocent Nogrod without time and/or energy to contribute much. (Note though, that he's posted quite a lot, it's just that most of it lacks substance.) Did play a real, if small, part in getting Sally lynched, but some of his other posts seem off.

Originally Posted by Nerwen after Nog Day 3 analysis

General Comments: well, he doesn't come out of it looking nearly as bad as Glirdan did when I analysed him– but on the whole I'd say he's "leaning furry".

She starts off saying she doesn't think he looks furry, but wouldn't be surprised if he was. Treading middle ground so that she can go either way without looking like she flipflopped. I notice that as the Day continues and more players grow suspicious of Nogrod, her suspicion grows into "leaning furry." It looks pretty suspicious to me.

Originally Posted by skip

Insane for offering them up for the slaugher, eh? Yes, that may well be the case. A working theory of mine is that Shasta and Morsul are the remaining wolves. But if they are that seems like too bold a plan, especially if it's been made before hand. Hm...

Could this be an innocent newbie just trying to avoid the bandwagon, or a newbie wolf offering other options? I'm leaning towards the former because again, I really doubt a wolf wouldn't hide in the Nogrod bandwagon.

Originally Posted by Legate

Anyway, my main dilemma toDay is simply whether to join lynching Nogrod - and therefore getting part of the answers to the above - or to believe in the other of the possibilities and lynch one of the other suspects, in my case Inzil. However as I am not sure how much the other makes sense right now and considering that I have been slightly unsure about Inzil's guilt for a few reasons (see earlier toDay), it might as well be Nogrod. Even though I am wondering if his defense is not that of a genuine innocent.

Leaves both options open and plays it safe. It could indicate wolf, but at least his words seem more genuine. Legate's a bit of a question mark to me at the moment.

[skip spence]

Like, lynch me now and be done with it!

'
Yeah but it's very childish, isn't it? And not at all helpful for the village if he is innocent, nor helpful for him if he is a wolf. It could easily be a desperate bluff.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I don't know, but his reaction does seem a bit fake to me.

Not necessarily. I would have been surprised/slightly embarrassed too if my top suspect had been revealed as the seer.

[Brinniel]

I still have more to say, but I'm off my work shift and need to leave now. I'll be back later.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Yeah but it's very childish, isn't it? And not at all helpful for the village if he is innocent, nor helpful for him if he is a wolf. It could easily be a desperate bluff.

If you keep playing werewolf, some day you'll find out how it feels when everybody suspects you and uses everything you say against you even when you try to help. It's sometimes nicer to die right away than to stay alive and constantly top everybody's suspicion list. Makes one feel like a burden to the village, and in a way it's true because if everybody concentrates on the suspicious innocent, the real wolf gets to pass by unnoticed.

Huh a couple of days ago I wouldn't have believed I'd be defending Morsul...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And really I'm getting slightly bothered about the fact that you keep saying Nog was my & Shasta's first wolf-vote. Or do you know for sure that Mira and Morsul are innocent?

But if one of them is a wolf, you or Shasta can't be, so it doesn't matter. I don't quite get what's the problem here. Obviously we can only analyse possible wolf-on-wolf votes on known wolves, and given that there's only one wolf remaining, there can't be an unknown wolf on unknown wolf vote. So what's the fuss?

Originally Posted by Agan

And what do you mean by unsure? I read her posts and wrote what impressions I got. Then I made my conclusion about her based on the said impressions. I'm not sure she's guilty, but I just fail to see why appearing unsure when making an analysis is a sign of innocence.

People tend to flip-flop in their analyses even if they are more inclined to see somebody as either guilty or innocent. Your analysis was pretty condemning all along.

Originally Posted by Agan

What points are you talking about? When I said it's more likely Nog's fellow didn't try to save him, I didn't consider it something that would somehow incriminate me. You mean I shouldn't say anything that doesn't look entirely good on me because if I do it means I'm a wolf, even if it was helpful to us?

No! I didn't say that you presenting a point that puts you in bad light makes you evil, only that it doesn't speak for your innocence either. You would do that as an innocent as well as a wolf. If I ended up sounding it means you're evil it's simply because I remember wolf-Agans bringing up points harmful to the wolves in previous games. But if I use sense, you would of course come up with points like that as an innocent too. So I guess what I mean is that as the instances when you've brought up such points that I remember are from when you're a wolf the fact that you're doing it now reminds me of Wolf-Agan but if I think with reason it doesn't incriminate you (although it doesn't exonerate you either). Was that long enough explanation?

Originally Posted by Agan

Glirdy and sally pretty much slipped under my radar all the time - which you should know they wouldn't have done if I had been their fellow.

Which is not a good defense because as a wolf you could've pretended they did.

And no need to get so jumpy. *raises eyebrows*

PS. And I don't want to start an innocent-Agan vs innocent-Lommy argument (since we have avoided it this far, I'm actually surprised ) nor a wolf-Agan vs innocent-Lommy argument started by the person first mentioned to get people think it's another innocent-on-innocent row and thus makes them both look innocent.


edit: xed with everything since Brinn's first
edit2: marked a quote

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

But if one of them is a wolf, you or Shasta can't be, so it doesn't matter.

Hmm that's true. It just sounded bad to my ear.

People tend to flip-flop in their analyses even if they are more inclined to see somebody as either guilty or innocent. Your analysis was pretty condemning all along.

It wasn't intentional and I tried to see both sides. I was slightly suspicious of Nerwen when I started doing the analysis but I don't think I let it affect it (rather, the analysis just backed up my suspicions)... If it's condemning it's because she looked more guilty than innocent.

If I ended up sounding it means you're evil it's simply because I remember wolf-Agans bringing up points harmful to the wolves in previous games.

You did and it annoyed me.

Which is not a good defense because as a wolf you could've pretended they did.

I could but I wouldn't have done that because it would've looked bad on me. But because you can't know my role for certain there's no use to talk about that - suffice to say, you'll see when the game ends (or I die).

And no need to get so jumpy. *raises eyebrows*

I wasn't jumpy, I was annoyed in a way nobody else can make me.

And I don't want to start an argument either, it just happened!

Anyway while Lommy was writing her charming little post I looked through the thread to see who had used their retractions, and I don't like the result very much... In addition to some dead people, only Lottie and me don't have ours left. Okay I suppose it could be worse too, if only a few refused to let go of theirs and there were more wolves left.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

given that there's only one wolf remaining, there can't be an unknown wolf on unknown wolf vote.

Sure it can. A wolf may vote himself.

Originally Posted by Agan

If you keep playing werewolf, some day you'll find out how it feels when everybody suspects you and uses everything you say against you even when you try to help. It's sometimes nicer to die right away than to stay alive and constantly top everybody's suspicion list. Makes one feel like a burden to the village, and in a way it's true because if everybody concentrates on the suspicious innocent, the real wolf gets to pass by unnoticed.

Yes, but why then play this game? Surely you can't expect people to trust you, unless they have a solid reason?

Edit: Agan: Lottie too still has hers left. I remember her retraction was late. Again, why is this a problem?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Yes, but why then play this game? Surely you can't expect people to trust you, unless they have a solid reason?

True but sometimes it gets out of proportions, and it can be really annoying when nobody listens to you. So I wouldn't say that getting frustrated means that Morsul is a baddie or very unhelpful. It's better for the village not to focus on a single suspect, and if Morsul's innocent, he's trying to sacrifice himself for the greater good.

Edit: Agan: Lottie too still has hers left. I remember her retraction was late. Again, why is this a problem?

Oh yes that's true. And it's not a problem, it's just something that should be kept an eye on. Just in case. In a game where the lynch is determined by who gets the biggest number of votes last, a single retraction made right before the deadline can mean a lot.

[Morsul the Dark]

Agan's... defending me

There are many reasons to vote oneself...

Frustration
For the greater good
to have a unanimous vote(Happened a few games ago)
and others...

My vote is definitely not out of frustration.

[skip spence]

So either we have Morsul the Martyr or Morsul the Desperate Lone Wolf? Voting on him does seems like a win-win scenario and at the moment I'm willing to oblige.

But I'm also concerned about the lack of other serious candidates.

And Agan, wouldn't you save yourself by retracting and re-voting if you had the chance and it was your only chance? Regardless of the role?

Edit: To clarify, an innocent saving himself from being lynched by re-voting may also get the real wolf lynched and thus be good for the village.

[Aganzir]

Yeah Morsul wouldn't have thought so?

Originally Posted by skip spence

Voting on him does seems like a win-win scenario and at the moment I'm willing to oblige.

To me it doesn't because I believe we have a chance of getting a baddie (Nerwen)... And that reasoning would totally make me suspect you (skipwolf just wants an easy lynch!) if it wasn't for other things that make me think you more innocentish.

And Agan, wouldn't you save yourself by retracting and re-voting if you had the chance and it was your only chance? Regardless of the role?

Maybe but not necessarily. It would depend on the situation.

FYI, I'm trying to go through Nog's interactions with others in order to supplement Lommy's extensive wolf post analysis (mainly because I think it was a darn good way to do it ). However I'd love to go to sleep in half an hour so it might be I don't have to complete it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading, and can I just say I don't like how everyone is dismissing Morsul simply because of the way he acts? People change the ways they act all the time.

Alright then.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, I've seen a few things in Morsul's posts that are making me think something interesting.

++Morsul

I should be around (but distracted) for the next two hours or so, if something comes up.

[Morsul the Dark]

Shasta I wonder what was interesting in my posts that you saw. But hey good vote.

Here's a thought... there are 7 ordos left YAY! but one is cursed they don't even know they're cursed I certainly hope we get us a wolf... But if not maybe the unicorn(we have a chance of getting our folks back) or cursed the las wolf truely is alone

Oh and one more thing Shasta has good reasoning and I think she's innocent.

Skip on the other hand would be happy to oblige my easy lynch. Jumping on a bit of bait?

--Morsul
++Skip

[Aganzir]

++Nerwen

For reasons already explained.

I'll be around at least until I've done the Nog thingy... However I don't think I'll analyse it any further than that (sorry but I need my sleep, even if it's weekend) but at least it's there in case somebody else has more time and energy.

[skip spence]

Alright.

++Morsul

Better him than me (apart from what I've already said)!

Going out now for a bit but might be back briefly in a couple of hours.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, back. I didn't read deeply the Nerwen-Agan-whatnot-whatever disputes, so I am going to reread them again properly to see what was going on there. Meanwhile, comment on other posts:

Originally Posted by Mirandir

In the meantime, I've been trying to figure out what Morsul is trying to accomplish by voting for himself. Yes, it makes sense if he is innocent to want to get rid of suspicion on him to focus on a wolf. However, if he is indeed innocent he's only hurting the village by encouraging us to kill him and give the wolves a leg up. If the cobbler wasn't already dead, he'd be my main suspect.

If he is a wolf, though, voting for himself to make it look like he has nothing to lose is something of an intelligent strategy. However, it casts a lot of suspicion on his actions in general.

So this pretty much boils down to I have no idea what to think. I'm leaning toward innocent and pigheaded, but tempted to vote him for sheer stupidity at the risk of being hypocritical.

This, especially the first part, I sort of don't like and am not sure about it. On my first sight, that made me alert. Is it, like, a Wolf too easily jumping on the easy lynch without joining it yet (=i.e. going to vote later and blend with the crowd once people all start voting Morsul?)

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Sometimes people do it (do you know Nilpaurion Felagund? It was his trademark). And I must admit that I can understand Morsul's point: if he's innocent (which I think he is) and everybody just keeps suspecting him, it can get quite frustrating. Like, lynch me now and be done with it!

Interesting 180° turn of being understanding to Morsul, to whom you never seemed to understand at all, right at the moment he voted himself. But whatever...

Generally speaking, if I went with sort of my line of thought how it was all the time and not admitting any possibility of suddenly turning my world upside-down because of being paranoid that Nerwen, Agan or somebody might be Wolves, then I would basically seek for the Wolf between Shasta or Mira the most.

There is one reason why I think Agan might be innocent, also because I believe Greenie would have dreamed of her. I mean, have Aganzir running unchecked, I think she would have looked into that. I think now it's really a pity that she did not get to reveal her dreams to us! Unless she really dreamed only of dead people. But that sounds quite unlikely - also exactly because of what I have just said about Agan.

So now I am going to reread, then reread somehow further into the past, and then hopefully even further, and if I am not asleep by then, I will do something about it.

EDIT: x-ed since Morsul

[Aganzir]

I excluded dead people + Lottie because they didn't seem so important. I also left out Nog's day 4 posts, mainly because I personally think we can't make much of them plus I want to go to sleep. Sorry I'm not any more useful.
Also, I hope I didn't miss any posts... I just searched the thread for "nog."

Nog on others

DAY 1
-says Agan is more concerned about her image
-attacks Inzil for saying winty's vote receives scrutiny
-disagrees with Agan about getting rid of the retrackies
-gives winty a newbie pass on day 1
-says Mira could be a sneaky wolf but voting for her would be a shot in the dark
-some things about Agan bother him but not enough to lynch her
-can't read Shasta but his jump on Morsul looks bad
-Nerwen speaks sense and is dangerous "unless one has reason not to suspect her," hopes her argument with Agan wasn't wolf-on-wolf
-Legate speaks sense and is dangerous "unless one has reason not to suspect him"
-Morsul darn suspicious = normal Morsul, easy voting target
-skip has been making sense
-Brinn reasonable and scary

DAY 2
-says there are points against*[Glirdan and] Brinn to a lesser degree (& fair points against sally & Zil)
-Agan more innocentish than not
-skip feels good
-Mira doesn't feel honest and her winty vote is too easy, resemblesShasta's ramblings about Morsul/winty
-Morsul gets lynched a lot, not saying he isn't a wolf but he's a too easy suspect
-winty looks suspicious but is most likely just a newbie

DAY 3
-if Glirdan's a wolf Lommy looks innocent, skip harder to place
-d2 Agan added a new voting candidate (Zil), possibly trying to save sally & Glirdy
-d2 Shasta's vote isn't the best for helping a fellow but introduced a new candidate (Morsul)
-d2 Mira voted easy (winty), introduced a new candidate as well
-d2 Morsul possibly a wolf playing it risky
-d2 Nerwen looks good for adding a vote for a wolf
-d2 Legate & winty made good votes
-d2 Brinn's vote good too but she didn't mention Glirdan at all
-notes that skip defends Glirdan
-tries to buddy up with Agan who said she didn't get Green's suspicion of him
-if Glirdan's a wolf, Shasta & Mira look quite bad and Agan relatively bad
-doesn't know about Mira, tells we can lynch her if we want but he doesn't have an opinion

**

Others on Nog

DAY 1
-Agan has him in Nonsense category
-Lommy is disturbed by his manner of creeping and grinning but otherwise he's ok
-Legate agrees that Lottiewagon is strange
-Brinn agrees with him about the reason for keeping her retraction
-Shasta says Nog misinterprets mistakes again

DAY 2
-if Legate had to choose a wolf from each bandwagon, he'd say Brinn or Nog from the Fea wagon
-Legate agrees with Nog that if sally had wanted to save Lottie she wouldn't have voted for him
-Lommy doesn't like Nog's reaction to her & Green's Lottie votes, names Nog as one of her suspects
-Agan is not on Nog's wavelength but thinks he looks good & wolfish Nog wouldn't have brought up points against Fea
-Nerwen thinks Nog's row with Inzil doesn't look good but might be a language problem
-Brinn finds Nog reasonable
-Agan doesn't think Nog is guilty but isn't convinced about his innocence
-Legate says he's hard to work it (listed under in uffish thought he stood)

DAY 3
-Shasta criticises Nog's calling winty an easy lynch, suggests saying that is just an excuse to suspect anyone who suspects winty
-skip doesn't like Green's suspicion of Nog
-Nerwen agrees with Nog that Glirdan's playing style is always suspicious

DAY 4
-Shasta didn't like Nog's insistence that many people were voting for the easy lynches when Nog did it himself too
-Nerwen makes an analysis (d1) and says he doesn't look furry but she wouldn't be too surprised if he was
-Legate thinks the Greenie kill might have been intended to frame Nog although he could be a wolf too; Green didn't necessarily dream of Nog
-Lommy believes Green dreamt of Nog
-Nerwen says he could go either way (d2 posts)
-Nerwen seriously considers voting for him after post 587
-Brinn thinks the possibility of Nogwolf is realistic although it could've also been a framing attempt (unlikely though)
-Nerwen says he doesn't look as bad as Glirdan did but is leaning furry
-Lommy quite confident about Nog's guilt
-Agan not surprised if Nog's a wolf, prepared to vote for him
-Legate repeats the possibility of the wolves wanting to frame Nog
-Agan votes for Nog
-Lommy votes for Nog
-Legate rambles about Nog; "possibly suspicious but don't make sense"; wonders whether he should join the Nogwagon
-skip is starting to get worried about Nog but votes for Shasta
-Shasta will probably vote for Nog
-Legate suspects Nog
-Shasta votes Nog
-Legate votes Nog
-Brinn says Glirdan's d1 comment on Nog looks very wolf-on-wolf
-Brinn votes Nog, saying she's surprised if he's innocent
-winty votes for Nog
-Nerwen votes for Nog but "if anybody else really jumps out I may switch"

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay and since Morsul did it, now I can say it aloud, that's exactly what I have been thinking he's going to do. The action may of course not imply anything in general if just anybody did it, but given Morsul-logic, if I try to imagine it from his perspective, it makes me think him more innocent. Maybe also Shasta, but there's a questionmark over that.

EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Interesting 180° turn of being understanding to Morsul, to whom you never seemed to understand at all, right at the moment he voted himself. But whatever...

No it wasn't that moment, I had started to feel better about him earlier (might have been already yesterday) although I'm not sure how clearly I ever said it.

I'm going to sleep soonishly (unless you suddenly start to post something very interesting ).

[Brinniel]

winty: I just can't see him being a wolf. If he were one, he probably would've had more guidance on the first Days. He looks like a confused newbie innocent to me.

Mira: I don't suspect her because even with time constraints, I think she would be more devoted to the game as a wolf. I just can't see a Mira-wolf miss voting for two Days considering her participation would be more important than ever with all her packmates gone.

Aganzir: Scares me a little bit. I agree with some things she says and I think she made a good case against Nerwen. The problem is an Agan-wolf is capable of making brilliant cases against players in order to get them lynched (I would know). The only reason I'm leaning more towards innocence is that I'm not sure she would make such a strong case as a wolf when she needs to last several Days in order to win. If Nerwen turns out innocent, that would make Aganzir look bad which is not what a lone wolf wants when they need to survive three more Days to win.

Shasta: I'm very uncertain about him. It'd be interesting if he were a wolf, and I wouldn't put it past Nogrod to suspect his final packmate if he thought it would help. Of course, this tactic was already tried and failed, so maybe not. Reading Shasta's posts, there's nothing that jumps out at me as seriously suspicious, but I'm still not sure.

Nerwen: Suspicious. While her voting record may seem good, the timing on her votes is not. And the reasons she comes to for voting the wolves has been rather wishy-washy...she certainly hasn't been eager to lynch any of them. The open case she's done on me doesn't feel all that innocent...it's her hesitance that makes me skeptical.

Legate: I don't know. His posts often end up becoming a blur to me because they're so long, but from what I got reading, he seems genuine. But the problem is that Legate can be really sneaky...sometimes when he seems least suspicious, he turns out to be a wolf. I don't see any reason to suspect him right now, but I would just like to keep an eye on him.

Morsul: His behaviour in this game seems typical of him. I can't see him being so clever or bold to vote fellow wolves from early on and then toDay vote for himself to make himself look innocent. Those are some very risky moves for a wolf to make. I do think it's less likely he's a wolf and would rather not see him lynched toDay.

Skip: While he's done some suspicious things, his intentions behind his actions seem good and his words genuine. He could very well be a clever newbie wolf...I can see him pulling it off. I'm still leaning toward innocence, but I'm a little more unsure of it compared to other players in that category.

Lommy: I think she's innocent. I can't remember her having any hesitance in suspecting and voting for the wolves...I doubt a wolf would be so eager to lynch all her fellows and I don't think Lommy's the type who'd want to be a lone wolf. I also agree with her on many points, particularly the list post she made about other players. If Lommy is a wolf, I'd have to give her mad props because I just don't see the slightest bit of wolfishness in her.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Agan's... defending me

There are many reasons to vote oneself...

Frustration
For the greater good
to have a unanimous vote(Happened a few games ago)
and others...

My vote is definitely not out of frustration.

And then your other post which talked about a "plan"... do you really want me to spell it out for the class, Morsul?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate

There is one reason why I think Agan might be innocent, also because I believe Greenie would have dreamed of her. I mean, have Aganzir running unchecked, I think she would have looked into that. I think now it's really a pity that she did not get to reveal her dreams to us! Unless she really dreamed only of dead people. But that sounds quite unlikely - also exactly because of what I have just said about Agan.

If Green had dreamt of Ag, why would she have kept flip-flopping on her? It makes about as much sense as the fact that yesterDay you were claiming I believe G dreamt of A and saying my dream theories don't make any sense and now suggesting that G dreamt of A yourself...

I don't like the votes against Skip and Morsul. I'd far rather see Shasta, Agan or Nerwen gone toDay, in that order more or less.


edit: xed with Brinn and Shasta, corrected quote markings

[Morsul the Dark]

why not?

1. Morsul thinks he's clever
2. Morsul isn't subtle
3. Morsul let's his plan slide

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

why not?

1. Morsul thinks he's clever
2. Morsul isn't subtle
3. Morsul let's his plan slide

Fine.

I think Morsul's the Unicorn and would like to trade him out, hopefully for Greenie.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

This, especially the first part, I sort of don't like and am not sure about it. On my first sight, that made me alert. Is it, like, a Wolf too easily jumping on the easy lynch without joining it yet (=i.e. going to vote later and blend with the crowd once people all start voting Morsul?)[/B]

I did voice suspicion against him before that, though. Like, two days ago. I'm just actually doing something about it now.

++Morsul

For reasons previously stated and since he's the only one who's really jumped out at me. This might change if I get the chance to go over some things more closely, but wanted to make sure I didn't miss deadline again.

[Thinlómien]

If Morsul is the Unicorn and wants to come out, it would make more sense NOT to lynch him. We'd have another known innocent and the chances of getting Greenie back are already quite slim...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If Morsul is the Unicorn and wants to come out, it would make more sense NOT to lynch him. We'd have another known innocent and the chances of getting Greenie back are already quite slim...

...and will just get slimmer as the game goes on. One could also argue that now is the best time to do it, as we aren't down to the point where lynches are crucial.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I just thought of something - Lommy, we really never agree on anything, do we?

[Thinlómien]

Vote count

Morsul 3
Skip 2
Nerwen 1

right?

Don't like it, especially if Morsul indeed is the Unicorn (well lynching him would be better than lynching an ordo, but still not good).

++Nerwen

She's the only one of my suspects who we can get lynched toDay. I'm trusting Brinn to back me up on this - if she does and Winty doesn't appear and no one retracts, Nerwen should be dead meat and hopefully (although I'm not too optimistic) game over.

edit: xed with Shasta x2

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If Green had dreamt of Ag, why would she have kept flip-flopping on her? It makes about as much sense as the fact that yesterDay you were claiming I believe G dreamt of A and saying my dream theories don't make any sense and now suggesting that G dreamt of A yourself...

Well I said that before among the people she might have dreamt about in the beginning, the problem is that she basically didn't proclaim anybody or almost anybody as totally clean. Well I'd have to recheck - if she kept saying some things about suspecting her also on the last Day, it's another thing. Whatever. Now I have other tasks...

Anyway, sort of generally... if I think about voting...

Not voting Mira, because she could hang around for a while yet and then be modfired if she does not participate. If she does, we can at least read something from her and see. Not going to vote her now when she hasn't been around for a while.

Not voting Morsul, said above, generally now leaning to think him innocent.

Not voting Lommy. If there is anybody innocent around here, it's her.

Not voting Agan either. I believe she is innocent. (Okay, though actually now Lommy has disputed that dream thing, so I might recheck it. Still, otherwise, not really suspecting her... or sort of "would like not to suspect her". Because I am sort of restraining myself from starting to think her a Wolf, because if she is, I am going to hate her.)

Now we are getting into the harder part.

Not voting skip? Because if he is a Wolf he would deserve it and at least we could lynch him in every consequent game? I am not really sure.

Brinniel. Nerwen. Not really suspecting either of them. Brinniel maybe even less. Actually after her last posts I think her innocent. Nerwen, I think I am getting paranoid, maybe I need to re-read some of her older posts. Her summary as made by Agan does not make me suspect her, as many of the points she brings up there are explainable to me and I don't see anything suspicious in them. But then... now not sure if the rereading is going to accomplish much, to be honest. If she is a Wolf, the only way to incriminate her is to dream of her or to find her through her packmates.

WW is not much around... his voting list speaks partially against him being a Wolf.

Does that leave Shasta... I need to re-read him as well.

EDIT: x-ed since Mira and all... okay...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Legate

Not voting skip? Because if he is a Wolf he would deserve it and at least we could lynch him in every consequent game? I am not really sure.

...Come again?

[Thinlómien]

Haha forgot that Legate exists. Sorry darling! Doesn't change the situation much, though. Only means that Brinn if Nerwen is your main suspect it means you had better only vote after Legate has gone to sleep. (Don't really want to see Skippy lynched as I think him a probable seer dream.)

Shasta, I think "never" is too strong a word. I'd say "we agree very seldom." I just think that I would rather try our chances on a wolf toDay and if we lynch an innocent, see the Unicorn go for example next Night with a slightly smaller chance of getting Greenie back and thus rob the wolf of a Night-kill rather than lynch the Unicorn toDay and have a slightly bigger chance of getting Greenie back and thus rob us of a lynch.

Anyway, now that we have found one wolf from her posts, her coming back doesn't matter so much anymore. It would be nice to get a known innocent or two, but to lynch the Unicorn just for the slight chance (1/5) of getting that doesn't make any sense to me.


edit: xed with Shasta

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Anyway, now that we have found one wolf from her posts, her coming back doesn't matter so much anymore. It would be nice to get a known innocent or two, but to lynch the Unicorn just for the slight chance (1/5) of getting that doesn't make any sense to me.


edit: xed with Shasta

Are you forgetting that the Ranger is still alive, Lommy?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Are you forgetting that the Ranger is still alive, Lommy?

No; I just can't see how it changes the situation. Unless I misread the rules, the resurrected gifted don't have their gifts anymore.

PS. It's getting late here. I'm off to brush teeth and change into pyjamas. I'll check this thread in 10 minutes, post if there's something worthy of commenting and go to sleep.