Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If Rohan indeed is a feudal society

Well ---- not quite. Feudalism had its beginnings in the remains of the fallen Roman Empire, and actually began in Italy. The Roman Empire was requiring such an incredible burden in taxes from small land holders that they chose to sell their land to bigger land holders, and to work the land themselves as servants of these larger land owners, who over time became strong enough to refuse the demands of the Roman Empire, which of course quickened its demise. THe upshot was that you had minor lords all over Italy, and then Europe as time went by, until the strongest lords began to be able to exact vassalage from their less strong peers.

All this to say that feudalism is not native to Anglo-Saxon culture, after which the Eorlingas are modeled. There was lordship and loyalty, but not the rigidly worked out system of lords and vassals common to the mid- and late - middle ages.

Therefore: everything that Nogrod says is true to a point - so long as we don't adhere to it too rigidly. In fact, King Eomer, by introducing a new principality called Middle Emnet, is actually heightening feudalism in Rohan. (in other words Elempi did it in spite of Tolkien )

But is the Folde in the Middle Emnet? I don't think so. I think it's in the East Emnet, which means that Eodwine would NOT be Degas' lord - it would be whoever Eomer gave that role to, having risen to kingship from it himself. Do the books say who?

It was indeed part of the original plan (at least some of them) that one source of different plot-lines could emerge from at least some of the mightiest landowners not being too pleased with the King's presence via the Mead Hall in the area they have used to run between themselves.

Sounds good to me.

[littlemanpoet]

I cross posted with Foley.

Originally Posted by Folwren

I've got a couple questions about certain things.

What is a Sack fight?
What will people be dueling with? Were practice swords decided upon?
What is included in the Task-path (is that relay race of sorts?)
Is Stone Throwing a contest to see who can throw the largest stone or who can aim most accurately with a stone?

I'm not sure what a sack fight is - do you fill a sack with straw and beat each other with it until one leaves the circle?

Let the dueling be with practice swords. You made a good case for it, Foley.

What do we WANT in the task-path? Start saying what it will be, friends!

Stone throwing should not be confused with shot put, which began when cannons were invented. That would be anachronistic. I could imagine that there might be heavy stone LIFTING. But stone throwing ought to be a distance and accuracy thing, I think.

[Nogrod]

Btw. This wil keep us going for ages... Just look at the number of games.

But I think it will be fun anyway.

Originally Posted by lmp

Therefore: everything that Nogrod says is true to a point - so long as we don't adhere to it too rigidly.

Exactly. As you say, this is Middle-Emnet, not continental Europe or British Isles from real history.


Foley: I think I explained the sack-fight somewhere not so long ago. I think it has been quite popular at least in Scandinavia and I'd be surprised if it was not known in other places as well.

If we're going to have a duelling game it should be played with practice swords or wooden ones or something like that.

The task-path was an idea of mine as well and I've speculated of it's contents in a few post lately but as there seems to be little interest to it - even if I think it would be something interesting to write - so we might be skipping it anyway.

I'd say the stone-throwing should be an aiming competition. But why not have the kind of shot-put game as well?


Haha! X'd with lmp...

[Nogrod]

The battle arena: A log that has been hoisted to a meter or 1½ meter high, about. In the beginning the competants stand at the ends of the log facing each other.

The weapons: A big sack filled with straws, hay, whatever light substance (sand is too heavy). Both fighters have one.

The aim of the game: To stay standing on the log and drop the other one down. To not loose your sack.

Additional rules: None. Everyhing's allowed. But as you need to keep your balance and have a medium heavy sack in your hand there's little room for anything else but trying to beat the other one down with your sack or encouraging the other one to swing the sack in a way the momentum of the swing imbalances the opponent enough to bring her/him down with it.

Winning conditions: The first one to touch the ground or to lose her/his sack is the loser.

Additional information: This is a fun game so hurting the opponent is not the aim. Making a full swing will quite obviusly just inbalance yourself. It has been historically something people have done in the market-days and other public festivities. And if I have my history right also females and kids have been playing it. So it's not a competition where we see who's who but where we can laugh together to the ways how people drop from the log or how they try to keep their balance and look funny.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by me #667

How about a competition which would include different tasks to perform? I mean tasks that would require agility, firmness of hand, wit and such. It might even be a game for all (also males and kids) as there might be interesting results. The tasks could be something like climbing to get a required object, pebble-throwing, building from pieces of wood a tower of a required height so that it doesn't collapse, figuring out any sort of puzzles, running/crawling/jumping through a track with different obstacles etc.

Or something like that.

Originally Posted by me #675

With the task-path I mean something like running for a hundred yards then climbing to get an item from the top of a tree or something. Then running again to build a tower from pieces of wood or something and running yet again to build a tent from scratch - and running yet again etc... We could come up with the particular tasks together. And the competants should run in circles somewhat so that the audience might see their performances all the time - and the first to come back after fulfilling all the tasks would be the winner...

Okay. These are my ideas. I could come up with more but what say you? If it feels too complicated or doesn't get any participants we can surely skip it. But let's see if we get good ideas and it starts to sound interesting enough.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Thinlomien

Nah, she would do no games. She's just roll her eyes at such nonsense and let Stigend compete with his friend... So Groin please, replace Modtryth with Garstan. (Besides, I think that will be quite funny... )

Sounds good, I'll also add Folwren's character's to the list.

Archery Erbrand, Crabannan, Garmund, Cnebba, Dan, Eodwine,Javan, Thornden
Horse Racing Erbrand, Eodwine, Rowenna, Javan
Racing on foot Erbrand, Garmund, Cnebba, Eodwine, Leof
Stone Throwing Garmund, Cnebba, Harreld
Wrestling Crabannan, Dan, Harreld
Dueling Crabannan, Dan, Eodwine
Quarterstaff-fight Erbrand, Crabannan, Stigend, Dan, Eodwine, Harreld, Thornden
Javelin Throwing Erbrand, Crabannan, Stigend, Dan, Harreld, Thornden
Riddles Dan, Eodwine, Riddles
Sack-fight Harreld, Erbrand, Dan
Dagger-throwing Rowenna, Eodwine, Harreld, Saeryn
Task-path Rowenna, Eodwine, Harreld, Dan, Javan
Rope-tie race Eodwine, Rowenna, Erbrand, Stigend, Garstan, Cnebba, Garmund, Javan, Saeryn
Build a fire Dan, Saeryn
Wheel barrow raceJavan
Rope climbing Erbrand

Just for some clearification, the Stone Throwing contest is where each contestant has a stone roughely the same weight and try to throw it the farthest and the straightest.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay. These are my ideas. I could come up with more but what say you? If it feels too complicated or doesn't get any participants we can surely skip it. But let's see if we get good ideas and it starts to sound interesting enough.

I say that we combine the wheelbarrow racing and the rope climbing with the task-path. I think it would be easier if we have those all added into one game instead of having them sperate.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Groin

I say that we combine the wheelbarrow racing and the rope climbing with the task-path. I think it would be easier if we have those all added into one game instead of having them sperate.

Maybe we should lump even making a fire into it?

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Maybe we should lump even making a fire into it?

Yes, I was thinking that once the race is done that all of the things that the people built would have a purpose. The wood could be waiting for the participants, they each build a tower or a teepee in a close circle, and when the the winner lights the fire we have the bonfire that we were thinking about having in the evening.

So we could start off with the players racing their wheelbarrows to the woodpile and loading them into the wheelbarrows to be raced to where the bonfire will be. Once they have enough wood they race over to a tree with a rope tied to it and climb to get a tinder box, and then run back (all this running is making me hungry) to light the fire.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Btw. This wil keep us going for ages... Just look at the number of games.

Maybe we should cut it down. Or, we could just mention the results of some of the games, rather than narrate ALL of them, which would indeed take ages, especially with so many people involved.

How do we decide who wins which game?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

How do we decide who wins which game?

We'll fight that over in here...



I like Groin's idea of putting the wheelbarrow-race and rope-climbing into the "task-path" (we should indeed come up with a better name for it). And the lighting of fire incorporated into it would be both logical and good.

Any other twists or turns to the game?

One idea relating to this would be that this game could be the last one and the competants should build their fires very near each other (like a meter away from each other) so that when the game is over all the fires could be united and that would be the celebration-fire to sing and drink around for good games and the advancement of the building work.

[Folwren]

I thought the wheelbarrow race was where each person had a partner, one partern got down on the ground in the position as though he were going to do a push up, and then his partner takes his ankles and with his feet thus held, and his hands on the ground, the contestant teams race across a certain distance. Then the partners switch places and everyone races back.

I've played this once - it was fun.

EDIT: Groin, add Javan to the sack-fight.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Groin, add Javan to the sack-fight.

As well as Cnebba and Garmund... and yes, Stigend...

[Groin Redbeard]

Archery Erbrand, Crabannan, Garmund, Cnebba, Dan, Eodwine,Javan, Thornden
Horse Racing Erbrand, Eodwine, Rowenna, Javan
Racing on foot Erbrand, Garmund, Cnebba, Eodwine, Leof
Stone Throwing Garmund, Cnebba, Harreld, Erbrand
Wrestling Crabannan, Dan, Harreld
Dueling Crabannan, Dan, Eodwine
Quarterstaff-fight Erbrand, Crabannan, Stigend, Dan, Eodwine, Harreld, Thornden
Javelin Throwing Erbrand, Crabannan, Stigend, Dan, Harreld, Thornden
Riddles Dan, Eodwine, Riddles
Sack-fight Harreld, Erbrand, Dan, Javan, Cnebba, Garmund, Stigend,
Dagger-throwing Rowenna, Eodwine, Harreld, Saeryn
Task-path Rowenna, Eodwine, Harreld, Dan, Javan
Rope-tie race Eodwine, Rowenna, Erbrand, Stigend, Garstan, Cnebba, Garmund, Javan, Saeryn, Kara, Ginna
Build a fire Dan, Saeryn
Wheel barrow race Javan
Rope climbing Erbrand

[Folwren]

Why, the villainous flirt! Geez! I never knew Rowenna could make me so cranky. This is as bad as seeing another girl trying to bequile the guy I like for real. Too bad Saeryn's not so out going, huh?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Why, the villainous flirt! Geez! I never knew Rowenna could make me so cranky. This is as bad as seeing another girl trying to bequile the guy I like for real. Too bad Saeryn's not so out going, huh?

Ditto.

That... that manipulative woman! Waiting for Saeryn to be busy with her brother to swoop in like a vulture...

Heh. Brilliant post Elempi. You've got me wriggling in anticipation.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Why, the villainous flirt! Geez! I never knew Rowenna could make me so cranky. This is as bad as seeing another girl trying to bequile the guy I like for real.

And some people say this is just a game...

[Groin Redbeard]

Since Erbrand is still talking to the boys I think that I'll get a post up for Lithor next. Should he start the games now?

[littlemanpoet]

I'm just glad to see that I apparently can write a female character believably.

[shaggydog]

OK, incredibly long post and long overdue. I apologize, RL has been hectic of late. I hope this will put Oeric back in the game, and hopefully I will manage to actually get him into the settlement as well very soon.

[Groin Redbeard]

Amazing post, Shaggy, glad to see that you're back in the game. You had me worried that you might have dropped out.

EDIT: I'm making a post for Lithor. He's going to start the games really soon, but he will start off with one that doesn't include the boys or Rowenna since they're busy.

[Folwren]

Fea and I are writing a PM post. It should be up within the week, I think...

[Folwren]

Nice post, Groin. Lindor cracks me up. But I think you meant a different word when you wrote

he chuckled again at his small joke, not realizing how formal he was being with a superior.

He was being the opposite of formal, so you either meant informal or familiar, or whatever you choose.

Thought you'd want to know.

-- Foley

[littlemanpoet]

Nice post, Gróin. I was hoping you didn't mind me putting words in Lithor's mouth.

So now I have to come up with a speech for Eodwine? Yeah, I was expecting that... - I'll have it done soon....

Gróin, is Rowenna the only female on the entire list?!? I would have thought that other women would want to be in the three legged race, at least, not to mention the task path...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Assume Leodhern will talk Degas into doing the three-legged race with her.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Gróin, is Rowenna the only female on the entire list?!? I would have thought that other women would want to be in the three legged race, at least, not to mention the task path...

No. There are several of the women somewhere on the list - and almost all of thim on the three-legged race.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Gróin, is Rowenna the only female on the entire list?!? I would have thought that other women would want to be in the three legged race, at least, not to mention the task path...

Folwren is right. Lithor just disapproved of Rowenna competing in such a "manly" sport, which women don't usually do. I personally have no problem's with it.

[Kath]

Kara definitely wants to be in the three-legged race, probably won't worry about any of the others.

[Gwathagor]

Fantastic post, Folwren and Fea!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Fantastic post, Folwren and Fea!

Thanks. I deflect all praise to Folwren: she initiated it, and she wrote all the best parts.

[Nogrod]

Have you any ideas how we should write the games? I mean if everyone writes their personal viewpoint to every game - possibly a few posts even - we will still be writing these games on 2009...

But if it's fun then why not?

And if it feels at some point they take too much room we can always skip a few or write them in a more streamlined way then.

So maybe we just start writing them all the participants just going for it and possibly having some discussion about the general outcome or possible events within the race either here or by PM?


PS. Just agreeing with all the others: great post Foley & Fea!

[Groin Redbeard]

Good point, Nogrod. We could set a deadline for everyone to post for the games, and then decide who won in this thread. PM'ing everyone about the games is also a good idea.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

There is also the difference in writing between scene and summary. A scene is a significant moment which develops characters and furthers the plot of your story. Scenes are expanded, and include much more detail. He said, she said, it looked like this, they acted like that, and the sky was blue. Summary is what takes place in between, and which is not as significant to the interaction between characters, though is still significant enough to mention. Scene is a specific moment; summary is what connects it to other moments, and enriches it.

Example: Bilbo's birthday was a scene. The passage of seventeen years was summary.

It's not necessary to write every detail if we can agree on a few main points that we'd rather concentrate on.

One specific moment Foley and I would like to have involves the horse race. So that would be a scene. Riddles would make a great scene because it's a throwback to The Hobbit. The three-legged race promises for amusement and interaction between characters who may not necessarily want to be that close to each other. Or who might. But the fire-building or rope climbing, for example, in which fewer are participating, might be prudent to skim over. "Also during the day's festivities were ______, and ______ came out victorious."

Or obviously we could just write everything.

[Folwren]

Rightho, Fea.

And speaking of horse racing, Groin, put Saeryn on the list. Also, you didn't get Javan into the Riddles list, will you see to that?

[Gwathagor]

Regarding the games - why don't we just assign one writer to write up a particular contest? That way everyone gets involved, but it won't take forever either.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Regarding the games - why don't we just assign one writer to write up a particular contest? That way everyone gets involved, but it won't take forever either.

I'd stick to Fea's proposal. I mean some games will be offering opportunities to make nice interactions between the characters and are thus opportunities we should not lose eg. they should be written as scenes.

But regarding a few games we could do well with a summary and there we could just decide who makes the "narration" of them after first listening to the participants' writers about the outcome.

Like the horse-racing which seems to be the first one. Let's give the pareticipants a chance to make some fun out of it.


It might make some of us wait for a moment while the competants play their game out, but that should be no problem - and some people might still write what their characters do while a race is on. When myself and Lommy came to this one in the first place (to the Eorling Mead Hall to be exact) we waited about a month for the scene going on to end so that we could enter... So let's not be hasty either.

[Groin Redbeard]

Archery Erbrand, Crabannan, Garmund, Cnebba, Dan, Eodwine,Javan, Thornden
Horse Racing Erbrand, Eodwine, Rowenna, Javan, Saeryn
Racing on foot Erbrand, Garmund, Cnebba, Eodwine, Leof
Stone Throwing Garmund, Cnebba, Harreld, Erbrand
Wrestling Crabannan, Dan, Harreld
Dueling Crabannan, Dan, Eodwine
Quarterstaff-fight Erbrand, Crabannan, Stigend, Dan, Eodwine, Harreld, Thornden
Javelin Throwing Erbrand, Crabannan, Stigend, Dan, Harreld, Thornden
Riddles Dan, Eodwine, Javan
Sack-fight Harreld, Erbrand, Dan, Javan, Cnebba, Garmund, Stigend,
Dagger-throwing Rowenna, Eodwine, Harreld, Saeryn
Task-path Rowenna, Eodwine, Harreld, Dan, Javan
Rope-tie race Eodwine, Rowenna, Erbrand, Stigend, Garstan, Cnebba, Garmund, Javan, Saeryn, Kara, Ginna
Build a fire Dan, Saeryn
Wheel barrow race Javan
Rope climbing Erbrand

[littlemanpoet]

Call this my modest proposal to organize ourselves for writing these games. Obviously, we all want in, and expect to have lots of fun.

I like Fea's thoughts, and I also like Gwath's thought, and Noggie makes good points too. So here's what I have in mind.

1. We write the basic stuff here in the discussion thread.
2. Each of us volunteer to be the caretaker of a particular game.
3. Each volunteer start a post (in this thread) with his/her game in the title, with what is going to happen.
4. Each writer who has a character participating, quote the last thread of that title (thus keeping everything that was said before) and add your own thoughts to it.

So this way, Gwath's idea of assigning a writer is done, but everybody gets a chance to say what they want added in. Also, this allows for scenes, because any writer can request that a certain scene be included in the final post on the main thread.

I was going to ask us to decide what the order is going to be, but I think that what will work best is to see which game is finished being planned first, and let that be the first one.

With one stipulation: the riddle game must be at night around the bonfire, and so will be last; and I want to disclude it from this proposal since it has a different nature to it. The typical way these things work is that whoever guesses a riddle correctly, gets to offer the next one. What I'd like to suggest, regarding the riddle game, is that when a riddle is made on the story thread, we make our guesses here on the discussion thread, and decide which character is going to have the answer so that whoever is ready with a riddle can post up.

So if this plan seems acceptable to you all, please say what game you want to be caretaker of, and I'm afraid it's simply going to have to be first to claim gets it. There are 16 games, so each of us can caretake at least two each; for starters, claim one at a time so that no one hogs the two best, if you take my meaning.

If there are any problems with my proposal, please speak up. My ego isn't the important thing here - all of us enjoying this, is.

Oh, one additional consideration: racing on foot, it seems to me, should be separated between adults and children. Let the boys have their own footrace.

[Nogrod]

I could take the sack-fight...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Foley, do you want to respond to Eodwine? I can't really think of anything for Degas to say beyond "We should talk; I want to fill you in and ask for your advice." And I feel like that would be a better discussion to have later, while others are busy with the games and they can speak in private.