Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by the phantom

*chuckles*

I was going to let Inzil do the reveal had he survived the night. Poor chap knew pretty well since Shasta died, but I wanted him to keep it quiet. What's a game without a good mystery?

You took boro's dream and ran as if it was yours. I bow to you.

if I fall asleep this moment I have 5 hours of sleep before work... but who can sleep at such a time as this?

[the phantom]

Fyi, I tried to get Sally to dream of you the night she died, primarily so I could tease her about dreaming of Morsul all night, heh heh.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Fyi, I tried to get Sally to dream of you the night she died, primarily so I could tease her about dreaming of Morsul all night, heh heh.

Honestly to be real for a moment, I tried very hard to not go after her this game, we certainly didn't part on good terms which is a shame she's a good person. I hoped two years of time would be enough to forgive and forget. The first post I mentioned not getting tunnel vision applied pretty much to her...

anywho, any takers on Manwe?

[Brinniel]

phantom, I did figure it was probably you yesterDay, and that you bluffed dreaming of me (and Boro was the dreamer). But where I got stuck is on how could Shasta dream of you. But now that you've explained it...

Though if no one actually did dream of you, that means technically you were never a known innocent, heh.

[Brinniel]

I'd still like to see Manwe's reaction before taking further action. Regardless of the situation, it's never fun to lynch someone so early in the Day before they even have the chance to defend themselves.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Brin

that means technically you were never a known innocent, heh.

Yeah, that was the weird part when I actually stopped to think about it.

Originally Posted by Morsul

I tried very hard to not go after her this game

Well hey, neither of you lynched the other, so that's a step forward, right?

As far as proving I'm Elendil, I decided I'd use the line "7 ships, 7 stars, and 1 white tree" as the key, seeing as it was appropriate for Elendil.

My third post doesn't fit the pattern- I was very tired and posted it without thinking, but I remembered to follow the pattern in my other posts. The pattern? 7-7-1

7th letter of 1st post = E
7th letter of 2nd post = L
1st letter of 4th post = E
7th letter of 5th post = N
7th letter of 6th post = D
1st letter of 7th post = I
7th letter of 8th post = L

I figured that ought to be proof enough if I had to reveal at some point, though once I became a "known" innocent it really wasn't necessary.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Brin

I'd still like to see Manwe's reaction before taking further action. Regardless of the situation, it's never fun to lynch someone so early in the Day before they even have the chance to defend themselves.

Quite right. I won't cast my vote until tomorrow evening.

But I will be going to bed earlier than usual. I'm short on sleep and really need decent rest tonight.

Good night.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Yeah, that was the weird part when I actually stopped to think about it.

Well hey, neither of you lynched the other, so that's a step forward, right?

As far as proving I'm Elendil, I decided I'd use the line "7 ships, 7 stars, and 1 white tree" as the key, seeing as it was appropriate for Elendil.

My third post doesn't fit the pattern- I was very tired and posted it without thinking, but I remembered to follow the pattern in my other posts. The pattern? 7-7-1

7th letter of 1st post = E
7th letter of 2nd post = L
1st letter of 4th post = E
7th letter of 5th post = N
7th letter of 6th post = D
1st letter of 7th post = I
7th letter of 8th post = L

I figured that ought to be proof enough if I had to reveal at some point, though once I became a "known" innocent it really wasn't necessary.

I'm having flashbacks of SaucePanMan's cryptic Clues... It's SOOO obvious now.

Although it explains a post you did a while back with certain letters(I think it was about Boro) only post you made that had scratching my head saying "I can pick random letters too and say it means something"

[Mänwe]

Gah, i'd wager the old man was wishing he'd listened to his selfish side all night now. Still, if he dies I suppose he's spared Elendil's interminable gloating.

++Morsul

[Galadriel55]

It's been 10 hours and not a single post. Wow.

[the phantom]

Sorry, Moddess. I would've made a lot of posts today with insane theories on how each of us could conceivably be the final KM, but this 20 minutes is my only freedom until I get home after tonight. (8:45ish)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Sorry, Moddess. I would've made a lot of posts today with insane theories on how each of us could conceivably be the final KM, but this 20 minutes is my only freedom until I get home after tonight. (8:45ish)

Don't worry about it. I just found it surprising after all those Days when I came home and barely had time to skim the thread for the amount of posts.

[Loslote]

Well! Since it looks ridiculously likely that the last KM is either Manwe or Morsul, I'll just go ahead and

++Manwe

Since I don't know with complete certainty that I'll be back before DL (I have work and class until 10, and class often goes until 10:15 or 10:20 or later).

[Morsul the Dark]

I think phantom has been lying the whole time he's the last KM. and here's why...

he... uh.... he umm... and then...

And Brinn don't even get me started on that girl, with her making sense and innocent dreams, and fancy shmancy "proof" clearly a KM

Lottie I think the valar lied to me. Never trusted that Ulmo. whith his wateryness and such.

I think there might not even be a KM left at all this is one of those experimental games, where we keep lynching people and nothing happens!

Can you feel it?

[Morsul the Dark]

Not much Moddess but I figured I'd try

Sort of said everything I had in the first post...

[the phantom]

Manwe is the final KM- if Morsul is telling the truth.

Morsul is the final KM- If Manwe ends up innocent in the lynch then naturally we must lynch Morsul tomorrow.

Lottie is the final KM- If Morsul misread his dream or the Moddess mistyped it.

Brin is the final KM- What if Boro found her to be a KM on Day 1 but figured he'd throw them off the scent and preserve his life by painting her as innocent instead, figuring he'd get the opposite message across to me at a later time....

Phantom is the final KM- The real Elendil is just biding her time, waiting for me to think I've gotten away with the ruse. Okay, no, that's kind of weak....

[the phantom]

We offed the herald- now we can off the big man himself.

++ Manwe

Mwu ha ha! Down with the Valar!

Erm... wait, wait- that's what the King's Men are supposed to say. Um... I think in the course of events we all ended up on the opposite side somehow.

The KMs are the good guys, while the "Faithful" have evil sounding names, like Morsul, and Phantom, and Erin.

*sigh* Win the battle but lose the war...

[the phantom]

And a special shout-out to composer Joe Hisaishi, who is 62 years old today. Some of his more famous film scores include Laputa (Castle in the Sky), Howl's Moving Castle, and Spirited Away.

Many happy returns!

[the phantom]

And Happy Birthday to anyone else having a birthday today, naturally.

[Brinniel]

I might as well vote...

++Manwe

[Galadriel55]

Sorry guys, got sidetracked by endless phonecalls and "serious talks"!

This, however, is too awesome to do without a narration. It's comin'.

[Galadriel55]

After two more phonecalls (can't they pick another time?...)


“’Tis the Valar’s hand!” cried the villagers in happiness. “This is the last day!”

By the dreams that the Valar have sent to the people they have found the last King’s Man. The old man stood alone and abandoned.

Why did he not remove a different person? Why did he not kill Elendil last night? Mayhap he would have saved himself. But he left the first for another day, and did not suspect the second. Too late is too late.

The villagers seemed to have forgotten about the old man, whom they heeded, whose advice they followed, and who in the end betrayed them. He glanced around with resentment. Then, with surprising agility, he darted off. A cry was raised immediately, and people started after him.

He did not go far. He ran into the forest, forgetting all care. A root tripped his foot. He slipped and rolled downwards off a steep hill. When the other men caught up with him he was in no condition to run anymore.

“Yes, I killed your friends,” he said hoarsely. “I waged war against you and your kind for who you are, and I do not regret it. There is but one thing that I regret. All of yours that died at my hands died with a purpose, for a purpose. They knew their death had meaning. They knew their death is not for nothing. But what is my death? Have I defeated you, or helped defeat you? Nay! I hated you, and I hate you still. Yet there is truth in what your men speak before they breathe their last breath. There is truth.”

With these words he died. Like twice before him, a black mist rose over his body. It floated up, and slowly faded out to nothingness.


ALIVE:
Morsul
Lottie
The Phantom
Brin

DEAD:
G55, the hesitant King’s Man (modess) – stabbed on Night1
Eomer (ordo) – stoned on Day1
Boro (gifted) – drowned on Night2
Pom (ordo) – decapitated on Day2
Shasta (gifted) – throttled on Night3
Nerwen (KM) – hung on Day3
Sally (gifted) – struck by a stone and died of hemorrhage on Night 4
Steve (KM) – speared on Day4
Inzil (ordo) – pressed on Night5
Manwe (KM) – fell on Day5

VILLAGE WINS!!!


And there was nothing more?

And there was nothing more.

But... wait, did you not say that Anarion, Amandil, and Isildur all died? How then are we?...

You stupid! Of course they did not really die in a stupid village because of some stupid King’s Man trio, because otherwise you would of course not be here today.

You mean... you were making it all up?!

But yes, Faramir! It’s boring to read the same scroll over and over again for the umpteenth time. I want to make it more fun.

That is not right, Boromir! That is not what it really was! You cannot substitute your own inventions for our history!

I can too if I want to!

Cannot!

Can too!

Cannot!

Can too!

*curtain falls as Boromir and Faramir continue arguing*


Post-game discussion begins here.

You may now send me a PM with your answers for the reference thingy. There is one reference for each narration. The person to name the most wins. I'll accept PMs for the next three or four days, and then just give the answers.

[Loslote]

Congrats, all! And thanks for a lovely game, G55!

I do believe this is the third end-game I have ever been alive for.

Oh! And I totally thought tp was Anarion for the longest time (up until Sally died and was revealed a gifted, anyway). I had a feeling Brinn was Elendil, but I wasn't nearly as sure.

[Pomegranate]

Whoa. Good game, Gal, thanks guys for playing! Even though you lynched me when I was unable to defend myself. Because of not having the chance during the game, I shall post my comments now. I felt unreasonably suspected.

"Okay, I said I don't like the argument of not adding new people. I admit, I wasn't there at the time, and didn't check until afterwards how close that was to the deadline. I still think it's a comment not really worth mentioning, but I never said I actually suspected it. And I still think that the mass suspicion of Morsul without any votes was a bit weird.

On being flimsy: I didn't have much time, I wanted to vote for someone who voted for Eomer because it felt like the easiest distinction to make at that point. After going through the people who were involved, I had loads of material on Sally, and nothing on the other two. Thus her. Had I stayed, I would've gone through more people, but I couldn't."

To be honest, I thought I was safe. When I came home on Friday evening and started catching up, it was very close I didn't send a message "here, catching up" - gladly I decided to play safe and checked, to realise that I wasn't alive anymore. It was probably for the best - so much happened while I was gone, I would've been very much baffled to come up with any reasonable comments.

[Coppermirror]

I've been reading this game keenly all the way through, and it was just as good as I'd hoped! I was green with envy for not having the time to play myself this round. The premise for the Gifted in this game made things very interesting.

You were all excellent. I particularly liked the Elendil revelation. That must have taken such a lot of subtlety of communication between Elendil and the first dreamer; I'm very impressed.

It was a tough game for the wolves, wasn't it? Even though the wolves didn't seem to make many mistakes.

[Inziladun]

Excellent! It's nice as an innocent to occasionally be done in by baddies instead of a lynch.

I knew of course that phantom was the Heir. I didn't know which heir, though. It helped greatly that he was already considered a "known" innocent, as I could make a show of trusting him without it looking suspicious. I all but outright asked him if he wanted me to out him.
The last Night I was alive, I spent quite a bit of time looking over things, and I was pretty well convinced Mänwe was the final KM. I thought there was at least a decent chance I'd be killed to keep me from revealing the Heir.
That was a valiant fight, KMs. I doubt Nerwen would have been lynched if not for the dream, and that was the break we needed.

Great game G55, certainly something different.

[Loslote]

tp: Why did you send the dream to me?

[Boromir88]

I wish I had the gall to use my self protect night 1...as if the KMs situation wouldn't have been bad enough. Excellent game and role design G55, I think with the way we could use Elendil's dreams it knocked the game off balance. But don't get too down, it was experimental with some really interesting roles, and had it been large enough to keep a Cursed Cobbler, then there would be some real Day 1 and early going fireworks.

After realizing the dream plan, my main focus was make sure a dream happened thus guard Shasta night 1. And then dupe the wolves into coming after me on a night I would use my self-protection, but I painted that "Come kill me sign" a bit too early, and didn't have the riskyness to use it Night 1. I liked the making me look like Elendil the day after, quite fantastic Shasta and tp.

[Pomegranate]

Oh yeah, boldly played, Phantom and Shasta. I tried to figure out that situation after my death, and everything else was traceable, but I couldn't figure out why Shasta would say he dreamed of Phantom, why he would trust enough. It worked, gladly.

[the phantom]

Wow, now that was an interesting game. I'm glad I played- even if it did wreck my schedule a bit.

Shasta- major kudos to you. On Day 2 I really didn't know which way things were going to swing, so I was attempting to lay groundwork for various forks the game could take. I knew the bluffed dream was a possibility, but I didn't have my heart set on it, for I knew it might be difficult for you to bring yourself to trust me so far that you would risk handing me the game (if I was a KM). But you took the risk- and it paid off. Thanks much! I'd love to hear what all you were thinking at the time.

And way to keep the cards close, Inzil. As I said on the final day, I was totally going to let you do my reveal for me in thanks for not outing me earlier, but unfortunately you died first.

Originally Posted by Lottie

tp: Why did you send the dream to me?

I had lists put together for potential KM packs and you were on too many of them compared to how guilty I actually believed you to be. I suspected you more of being Isildur than being a KM in fact- thus ruling you out would be rather useful to me, as it left Nerwen in every remaining pack, and I suspected her strongly.

I debated a lot on who to send you, though. Even though assuming you innocent left Nerwen as the obvious choice, I was wanting to get Morsul ruled out as well, as I saw him as one that was likely to get lynched and likely to be innocent. I very nearly picked him as the dream.

But the main problem I saw with that was that would leave the lynch target open. If it came down to Nerwen and Inzil I would've been pleased, as Inzil was the other high-occurrence KM besides Lottie and he didn't look so clean, and I felt that finding him innocent via lynch would at the least tell me that Steve was in the pack, where as at the moment I was inclined to leave Steve out (I wondered if he was more in the mold with Morsul as far as being a lynching distraction).

In the end it came down to playing the odds- I felt we just really needed a correct lynch. So I sent my big suspect to the most trustworthy unknown and hoped the gamble paid off. If I was right then I thought it would really help because I felt Nerwen was the biggest threat to a positive lynch outcome, in the sense that she could spear-head efforts to herd the sheep in the wrong direction.

(Of course it did occur to me to send the dream to Shasta or Brin, but I figured the KMs would try and kill them, particularly after I'd spent the entire day planting the idea that Shasta was the obvious kill.)

Anyway- it worked out, and all's well as ends well, right?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Good game, everyone.

Phantom - A lot of that day had me wavering back and forth, but I knew with the death of a gifted Boro (and the fact that he'd been the dream, meaning we were down one dream already) that the innocents needed some way to come back. With you having come up with the dream plan mechanic, I couldn't see any reason a KM-phantom would have done something so detrimental to the baddies, so I took a leap of faith (knowing that, if you were a KM, I was handing you the game did nothing to help me sleep at night!). I almost came back at the last second of the Day and spoiled the ruse, but I knew you were working extra hard to get the KMs to attack me at night - therefore, you were clearly Anarion and going to protect me.

[Kuruharan]

I started reading through this game during some idle time at work and was hooked.

It was a most riveting game.

Very well played, and of course, the twist of the known innocent still being innocent...but not actually being known.

[Galadriel55]

Firstly, good job innocents! You did some marvelous wolf-detecting. And the whole mental limbo with the dreams was a stroke of genious on Shasta's part. Kudos to you.

KMs, I was very impressed with your knack for knocking the gifteds! It was kinda scary, looking at the kill at Night and thinking "what? ANOTHER one? AGAIN?". Refreshing the page every few seconds about 2 minutes before DL was a bit nervewracking, though. You were awesome, and you put up a good fight despite the unbalanced conditions.

As for that part, I sincerely apologize to both the wolves and the village for not thinking the logistics through. The lesson learnt from that: do not start an experimental game the first time you mod unless you've had it reviewed and approved by all of the ancient WW-playing community. I hope you enjoyed the narrations, though.

Once again, well done everyone! You were very entertaining, and even though I was a bit pressed for time and only skimmed the thread lately it was fun to see first the mix up with the dreams, and then the final reveals... And every once in a while I chuckled when on a suspicion list all the KMs were under one group but the wrong one...

[Brinniel]

During one of the last Days, it dawned on me that Elendil just had to be phantom. After all, Inzil knew who Elendil was so it wouldn't make sense to list Manwe and Eonwe as likely baddies. That left Morsul, who I just couldn't believe would be gifted. And it would be so typical of phantom to sneak by the baddies as a gifted without them realizing it. But I kept getting stuck on the fact that Shasta couldn't have dreamed of phantom were he Elendil. Faking a dream as a known innocent is certainly a risky move and I wasn't sure if Shasta would be so bold. But he was, so kudos to him on that.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

As for that part, I sincerely apologize to both the wolves and the village for not thinking the logistics through. The lesson learnt from that: do not start an experimental game the first time you mod unless you've had it reviewed and approved by all of the ancient WW-playing community.

I do think it would've been more balanced if you had a larger village with the Cursed Cobbler as intended. Don't worry if things didn't play out quite as planned; both games I modded didn't go as I planned (in fact, they were disasters). I think modding really is a learning experience. Nevertheless, this has been a fun game and I'm sure most other players would agree.

Anyway, this was an enjoyable return after a long absence from WW. Certainly a better ending than my last game.

[satansaloser2005]

Hurrah! Glad to see this ended in a village victory, although the villains were clever and certainly would have deserved the win if they'd taken it.

Originally Posted by Boro

I painted that "Come kill me sign" a bit too early

Same here, to some extent, though, as I expected, I haven't had a chance to read the thread since this weekend. I knew there was no way I'd be around Tuesday, so I'm glad the baddies took the flail bait and killed me instead of someone more useful (or at least more available). Except, you know, someone made me think about Morsul as I lay dying....

I had already intended to put myself up for a kill since I thought the game was going to go more than another Day (see above), but I over-over-hinted as a knee jerk to Phantom terrorizing me (you jerk), and I couldn't decide whether Dun was holding his cards because he knew someone else or because Phantom was telling him not to. Of course it was both, because Phantom. Sadly the dream rules change turned this from a suicidal protective maneuver into one that was in fact detrimental to the village, but given how much the innocents broke the game, I think it's only fair we had a wrench thrown at our heads....um, I mean plans.

If a game like this is tried again, I recommend the mod think about how the players may abuse the setup and plan accordingly. It's impossible to think of every loophole, but I think further limitations on the dreams (for instance, being able to send to a target no more than twice during the entire game, and perhaps even limiting that to only being able to double target one person the entire game) would have made it much more difficult to manipulate the system. Then again, Phantom tends to find a way to break anything....

Well played by all. More thoughts later, perhaps, but it's been quite a long (but enjoyable) day, and I need some sleep.

[the phantom]

I don't know why everyone seems convinced the setup was broken or unbalanced in some way. The fact is even playing it the way we did it took an extremely gutsy risk by Shasta and a well-played continuation of his risk by me and a gutsy risk in choosing Lottie for a dream in order to win this thing. Despite our good luck and good play we villagers were possibly one Night-kill choice away from losing this game.

What if instead of killing Shasta that night they kill me? Frankly it's what I expected despite all my efforts to push the kill-choice towards Shasta. Because killing him didn't help the KMs at all- due to his Amandil power it instead just transferred known-innocent status from him to Inzil, thus reducing the potential lynching pool.

Killing me and leaving Shasta alive on the other hand would have cut the knowns down to 2 and killing Brin the next night would've left it at 1, and given that population and the dynamics that existed I suspect Morsul would have gotten lynched at some point, and then it would be down to one final day in which all the innocents had to vote correctly and together to keep the Baddies from winning. In other words, if Steve or Manwe could manage to lynch either Inzil or Lottie ahead of them, game over. In fact, if Morsul had gotten lynched the day after Nerwen then Steve and Manwe could've potentially won the game with both of them still alive! A fairly resounding victory.

And frankly this is all you can ask for in terms of balance- if it can come down to a final day and innocents have to decide between a Baddie and an unknown innocent, then you did it right.

[Galadriel55]

D0 – “whilst there is still one voice to cry” – There’ll Always Be An England
N1 – “Be bloody, bold, and resolute. Laugh to scorn the power on man, for none of woman-born shall harm Macbeth” – Shakespeare, Macbeth.
D1 – “I think, therefore I am” – Descartes
N2 – “Life? Bah! It has no value. Of cheap things it is the cheapest.” – Wolf Larsen, Jack London, The Sea Wolf
D2 – “I’m a good boy, I am!” – “I’m a good girl, I am” – G.B. Shaw, Pygmalion, OR My Fair Lady, Eliza.
N3 – “We are not amused” – Queen Victoria
D3 – “Had you fought like a man, you need not have been hang'd like a dog” – Anne Bonny
N4 – “The things I do for love” – G.R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones, Jaime Lannister
D4 – “I think you've made your point now / You’ve even gone a bit too far to get the message home. / Before it gets too frightening we ought to call a halt” – Jesus Christ Superstar, Peter (Could we start again please)
N5 – “You don’t want to ___. You want to go home and rethink your life.” – Obi-Wan Kenobi, Episode II, Star Wars
D5 – “I left the first for another day” – Robert Frost, A Road Not Taken


If you have had an inkling about any one of them, count yourself a winner.