Eorling Mead Hall Planning/Discussion Thread - Page 18 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 06-07-2006, 04:03 PM

Something else for the back burner: At some point Eodwine is going to need to go an adventure to the Gap of Rohan and into Dunland, in search of his wife who he thinks may be alive. I'm thinking that this trip may involve Saeryn, and maybe Degas, and other characters that may or may not wish to go with. While Eodwine is gone, the Steward will be in charge of the Eorling Mead Hall. I will still be writing Falco, Garreth, and Harreld, but with Eodwine gone, that means Marenil is in charage. So, you see how important it is to me that you and I, Jenny, be able to work together. This won't happen for a little while yet, but when it does, I foresee Eodwine being gone for what could be months.

JennyHallu · 06-07-2006, 06:39 PM

But that's not going to happen for a little while now, so let's not count chickens. I'm sure things will be perfectly fine long before then. I am serious: I have no problems with you, or trust issues. It's something you've got to figure out for yourself. We'll just take our time and see where things take us.

littlemanpoet · 06-07-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

But that's not going to happen for a little while now, so let's not count chickens. I'm sure things will be perfectly fine long before then. I am serious: I have no problems with you, or trust issues. It's something you've got to figure out for yourself. We'll just take our time and see where things take us.

Relax. Just explaining why it was important to me. Now who's lecturing whom?

Seriously, it's all good. We're fine. On with the show!

Oh! And I've decided upon a new by-law. You all need to have fun. I demand it.

Folwren · 06-07-2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Relax. Just explaining why it was important to me. Now who's lecturing whom?

Seriously, it's all good. We're fine. On with the show!

Oh! And I've decided upon a new by-law. You all need to have fun. I demand it.

HARRAH!! Hand shakes all around with a huge grin on my face. Don't ask why, I like shaking people's hands when I'm happy.

Cheers to Jenny and Elempi!!

We'll have fun, don't worry! So long as things don't get tight in real life and in the discussion threads.

-- Foley

Celuien · 06-07-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Oh! And I've decided upon a new by-law. You all need to have fun. I demand it.

Yes, sir.

Proceeding to have fun coming up with Garstan the stoneshaper's reply.

It will be up tomorrow. Too late for me to write anything good now.

Glad to see the problems are resolved. I'll join in the hand shakes.

And quick notice - I'm going to half of the festivities for my little sister's high school graduation after all, so I'll be gone all day and night Friday. 10 hours of driving are involved.

So I'll definitely get my reply up before I go. Don't want to hold up the action here.

littlemanpoet · 06-08-2006, 02:07 PM

Celuien, I sort of left things hanging. Is there enough for you to go on?

Celuien · 06-08-2006, 02:42 PM

Well, as things stand, I'd probably write a lot of internal dialogue reflecting on the rescue and court events followed by a question to Eodwine about what he wants to talk about... Does that work if I'm away tomorrow and can't continue until the weekend?

Formendacil · 06-08-2006, 04:25 PM

EGADS!

You people could give a guy a heartattack!

Seriously... go away for three days and things just blow up... still calming down... breath, Michael, breath!

*breathes*

*breathes*

*breathes*

Okay, I think I'm back under control... Really, you people are too natural of Roleplayers- your serious discussions and queries and complaints turn into dramatic confrontations...

To weigh in, belatedly, with my personal opinions on the matter- I like jumping ahead in time, a week or three to a gap. It gives a greater feeling of permanence and real life than the belatedly long day-by-day version used in the Green Dragon. It is more condusive to longterm storytelling, which I think is what LMP is really looking for.

However, I have to go middle-of-the-roadish with Firefoot and others. Jumping ahead is good. Trying to keep pace with the course of the real life year maybe not so much... It's a good IDEA, I'll grant- but an inherently difficult one.

I may be a rather new RPGer on the 'Downs, but I come of an RPGing pedigree elsewhere, and of the 'Downsian RPGs, the Eorling Mead Hall's timeframe is the most similar to the one of my credentials. So I know from experience that while static characters (those with little or no development to worry about, however interesting they are) do well in a parallel-real life timeframe, developing characters do not.

Or, at least, it becomes a rather different adventure to demonstrate the growth and change in quite the same way.

Now, when I signed up with Náin, it was with both eyes open, and a full view of how things ran in the Mead Hall. The rules, as they stand, satisfy me well enough. I'd rather work around things than change them, being the sort of person that I am.

If, however, LMP decides to bow to the will of the Commons, and change up the timescheme, then I want to make it known that I like the jumping ahead by days/weeks. If we were to jump ahead a week/fortnight every time we jumped, that would be fine with me. If that means that when Christmas rolls around and we are still in Midsummer, well, that's fine with me too.

P.S: Jumping away from the great matters to those of finer detail: I am assuming that Eodwine will not be calling Náin to any sort of account at the court- seeing how thats sort of how I wrote it. But if there IS some sort of a plan regarding him... best let me know so that it's not a complete surprise.

littlemanpoet · 06-08-2006, 08:42 PM

Thank you, Formy, for your considered thoughts on the matter of time jumps. I will take them into consideration along with everyone else's and make no unilateral decisions at any point.

Nain is not going to have a direct role with Eodwine on this court date, unless he requests it.

Formendacil · 06-08-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Thank you, Formy, for your considered thoughts on the matter of time jumps. I will take them into consideration along with everyone else's and make no unilateral decisions at any point.

No unilateral decisions? Pity... I'm rather fond of unilateral decisions.

No, seriously, I'm glad that all the uncomfortable unpleasantries have passed, but it seems to me that there's still a certain uncertainty as to how the Mead Hall will proceed with regards to time... and being the butting-in sort that I am, my two cents were of a nature cast into the mix, with the assumption that us all being level-headed now, we can find an equitable path.

Mind you, I LIKE time jumps, and even keeping pace with the year, though a rather heady prospect, doesn't bother me- but Náin is a static character, in terms of growth. He'll CHANGE in his knowledge and experience, but not so much in terms of who he is- so I have the advantage that Jenny's Linduial does not...

Quote:

Nain is not going to have a direct role with Eodwine on this court date, unless he requests it.

Tempting... tempting... but no. I rather like the idea of keeping Náin a bit freer of the rules of the hall than most. And, what with being clueless as to where I'll be this Fall and how much spare time I'll have, I'm hesitant to tie myself down too tightly.

But oh... if I had surety of the time needed...

Feanor of the Peredhil · 06-09-2006, 08:41 AM

Aww, Farahil sees his baby sister growing up... Cute.

I reserve my prior "I'm busy so I won't be around much" for at least a while longer. A week or two ought to cover it.

And LMP, about your rule... what if I say no? What if I say that writing makes me completely miserable and I loathe every second of it?

littlemanpoet · 06-09-2006, 08:58 AM

Hey, fine by me. It was just a joke.

Feanor of the Peredhil · 06-09-2006, 09:10 AM

Oh good. 'Cuz.. you know... I hate this so much.

JennyHallu · 06-09-2006, 09:17 AM

Pickles and milk...it's all pickles and milk.

*rolls around giggling*

What? Ask Silly.

I'm having so much fun with Lin this morning, but I REALLY need to get back to work. Yay for Fridays! If you see me around much this afternoon, don't say a word about laziness and procrastination. It will fall on deaf ears.

Celuien · 06-10-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Pickles and milk...it's all pickles and milk.

The soup! The soup!

Ahem. So the real reason for my post...

Garstan isn't going to explain what's bothering him right now. That's part of the surprise for AiE, so I'm delibrately trying to dance around the issue. Hopefully, it will build some suspense in the process.

Jenny - how much longer before Lin takes off? Should Lèoðern come to say goodbye first?

JennyHallu · 06-10-2006, 08:47 AM

Lin doesn't leave until tomorrow morning, early, game time. Whether Leodern comes to say good bye is of course up to you. Which is to say probably. Does Leodern know about the secret?

Congrats to your sister, by the by.

Celuien · 06-10-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Does Leodern know about the secret?

Not yet. Well, not exactly. Garstan hasn't told her, but he has asked her indirect questions that played into his original answer about the secret. Or will in AiE.

Quote:

Congrats to your sister, by the by.

Thanks!

Folwren · 06-12-2006, 05:40 AM

I forgot to mention. I'm leaving this morning and will not be returning until Friday afternoon. Thank goodness Thornden has already been called upon.

I'll see you all in a few days!

-- Folwren

littlemanpoet · 06-12-2006, 09:33 AM

Great story, Ang!

What I'd like to do is have Eodwine say that he takes Manawyth into personal custody and will go to Dunland with Manawyth, for purposes of his own as well as to test the claims of Manawyth. This can then be part of the rpg I've been brooding on for a bit of a while. That does not mean that it has to happen right away.

What do you think, Ang?

I need to know if you're interested before Eodwine answers.

Also this would involve Saeryn, as she has family she wants to find, or find out as not living anymore. Care to describe what you have in mind, Fea?

Anguirel · 06-12-2006, 09:56 AM

Slightly ripped off from my Scottish Clan's history. Mostly the arrow through the window.

LMP, I would need a long break before embarking on such an RP but provided you're willing to wait even till Septemper or October I'd love to brave it. For the moment I'm already suspecting I'm overstretched and I have an increasingly full summer...

Certainly there's plenty of dramatic potential. I made up Math on the spot, but I can see him as an excellent, morally ambiguous character. Manawyth left Llian in the hands of Gwaer's ruffians, so who can tell what's happened to her. And there's a twist in the tale Manawyth hasn't told the court.

He likes sinning by omission...

Feanor of the Peredhil · 06-12-2006, 10:26 AM

LMP, remember when I first introduced Saeryn to the Horse? Runaway noble pretending not to be with limited success...

She'd run away from Fenrir with the plan being to follow in the footsteps of her dead parents (Fenrir broke the news of their death and she trusts him not at all, so she wanted to learn it for real). She got sidetracked at the Horse and then Degas came and revealed that her sister had died doing the same (following dead parents) and Saeryn's "Me? Noble... of course not!" charade ended.

Basically, she's still at the Hall for a few reasons: she's fallen in love with everybody there and doesn't want to leave them, she's got responsibilities now to herself and others, and she's dead scared now to follow and meet the same fate that seems to have taken half of her family.

If she and Eodwine go on the adventure promised that slightly inebriated night, Saeryn would want to follow a preordained path in search of information about parents that are said to have died several years earlier and a sister that died recently.

Fear will be her biggest obstacle as that's what it always has been for her in every situation. Presumably some fantastic tension would mount between Saeryn and Eodwine over who travels where, when, and with whom.

And I'm completely with Ang about needing to hold it off until the end of summer. But the more I think about this possible RP... the more I like it.

It's actually reminding me of Tapestry, LMP.

littlemanpoet · 06-12-2006, 08:25 PM

I'm fine with waiting until September or October as I have a very full plate already myself. At least that gives me the info I need for Eodwine to answer Manawyth. Yes, there is a bit of Tapestry familiarity there.

littlemanpoet · 06-14-2006, 02:17 PM

I will be on vacation from June 15 through June 20. I'll have computer access now and then.

Anguirel, do you want to have Manawyth respond to Eodwine, or should we just move on, figuring that Manawyth 'gets it'?

littlemanpoet · 06-14-2006, 09:16 PM

I've edited my last post to open things up for anyone. It is lunch time and the Hall has been reorganized for food and drink. Be merry! Feel free to move the time along toward late afternoon; just remember, we need to give Noggy and Lommy a chance to introduce themselves before the court day is done; perhaps their patience can be tried and they are the last ones to be welcomed as the sun is about to set...? Just an idea.....

Nogrod · 06-15-2006, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Feel free to move the time along toward late afternoon; just remember, we need to give Noggy and Lommy a chance to introduce themselves before the court day is done; perhaps their patience can be tried and they are the last ones to be welcomed as the sun is about to set...? Just an idea.....

That is just fine. We've had busy time modding our WWJ-game, but have already thought of a couple of things happening on the yard, so we can wait for you to finish the proceedings and have fun at the yard. And if you are serving food and drink, you might see one small hungry kid around there too...

Folwren · 06-17-2006, 12:59 PM

I'm back. May post later on today, am not sure.

-- Folwren

Folwren · 06-20-2006, 09:01 PM

I'm very sorry. That last post was way out of place. I neglected to read Elempi's post right before it.

I've taken it down and now understand that Thornden is not wandering around with nothing to do but sitting in court again.

-- Folwren

Folwren · 06-21-2006, 02:38 PM

I really dislike double posting, but I've done it here and in the Golden Perch now. . .

I have two things to say about what I just posted in the Mead Hall:

1. I've no idea which grains are planted in early spring. I stuck in oats because I like oats, but I don't know if that's quite right. If someone else knows better about what is planted in the spring, then let me know and I'll go back and change it.

2. Elempi, I used Eodwine and made up that case to make it interesting. If you don't like what Eodwine said or did, then I can change it, of course. If you're completely appalled with it, I can take it out. If you have a decision that you want him to make immediately, I can edit it, or you can go ahead and write it yourself, or let me write it for later in the day, or whatever.

That's all, folks.

-- Folwren

Nogrod · 06-21-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Folwren

1. I've no idea which grains are planted in early spring. I stuck in oats because I like oats, but I don't know if that's quite right. If someone else knows better about what is planted in the spring, then let me know and I'll go back and change it.

Wheat or spelt would sound more right, but I'm not a farmer myself either, so I'm not sure if you should trust me here...

And just to make an announcement. I'll be away until Sunday at least - and Lommy will be having scarce net-time on the following two-three weeks. I hope she can post our characters conversing before she goes (she has that post somewhat ready)...

And just to avoid any confusion: Cnebba, who seems to be the fastest of us is our common character - so we both will write for him.

littlemanpoet · 06-21-2006, 06:06 PM

Hmmm...! My...! A find little pickle you've handed me.

So just to summarize, Freeholder A owns the field but hasn't been using it, and Freeholder B doesn't own it but has been using it without A's leave. Right?

How did B plant it without A noticing? Did B plant it in secret at night (that would be very strange)? Was A gone? Did A know B was planting and not try to stop him? Or did he try to stop him and was there some threatening, whether of bodily harm or legal recourse? These are the questions that Eodwine will be asking before making a decision. Folwren, I'd love it if you could provide answers to put in the mouths of A & B so I can use them in a post. Sound good?

Uh,.... there may be more questions after these are asked, but we'll see about that later. Anyway, Eodwine's likely settlement is that B is going to have to pay A for the use of the land, whether in fee or in kind, and will, if having planted without permission, probably have to pay a fine to Eodwine besides for having caused the problem in the first place. I'd be interested in others' opinions as to how they see this case. Kinda fun.

Celuien · 06-21-2006, 06:16 PM

My thoughts:

Non-use of land to the 'best' purpose it could be given does not constitute abandonment of the land. Nor does it give a neighbor who does have what he considers a good use for the land the right to move onto the land without permission. Arrgh. Eminent domain cases. A pet peeve of mine. Anyone curious and up for hearing a rant can PM me after my exams are over this Friday.

So my list of questions for the arguers in the case would be the same as Eodwine's. I would be strongly inclined to make the squatting party pay rent. And maybe a fine...

Formendacil · 06-22-2006, 01:07 AM

Whew... that IS a legal tangle there, Folwren...

I agree with Celuien: the planting farmer is a squatter- at least by modern definition. I'm unsure how Anglo-Saxon (or Rohirric, for that matter) law would have dealt with the issue... My belief would be that, in a feudal system, the land technically all belongs to the King, and under him to the local lord. In this case, that would be Eodwine.

In a medieval society, it seems LIKELY to me that the Lord would want as much land as possible to be cultivated. And the typical scheme of things was two years planted, one year fallow. By leaving the land fallow, Farmer Owner was not fulfilling his obligation as a vassal of the Middle Emnet.

And, if was accept Farmer Planter's statement that he had a very narrow window in which to plant, then what he did was justifiable, and not to be harshly punished.

Anyway, that's MY reading of the matter, but as Eodwine is Eorl and not Náin, I'll leave that kettle of fist for Littlemanpoet.

Thinlómien · 06-22-2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And just to make an announcement. I'll be away until Sunday at least - and Lommy will be having scarce net-time on the following two-three weeks. I hope she can post our characters conversing before she goes (she has that post somewhat ready)...

I've been awfully lazy with this and occupied with amusing my sister...

I promise to write a post on Modtryth and Stigend and put it up before I leave to countryside, in a few days, that is.

And if Cnebba needs more writing and I have time I can do that too if Noggie's in the summer cottage...

littlemanpoet · 06-22-2006, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Whew... that IS a legal tangle there, Folwren...

I agree with Celuien: the planting farmer is a squatter- at least by modern definition. I'm unsure how Anglo-Saxon (or Rohirric, for that matter) law would have dealt with the issue... My belief would be that, in a feudal system, the land technically all belongs to the King, and under him to the local lord. In this case, that would be Eodwine.

In a medieval society, it seems LIKELY to me that the Lord would want as much land as possible to be cultivated. And the typical scheme of things was two years planted, one year fallow. By leaving the land fallow, Farmer Owner was not fulfilling his obligation as a vassal of the Middle Emnet.

And, if was accept Farmer Planter's statement that he had a very narrow window in which to plant, then what he did was justifiable, and not to be harshly punished.

Anyway, that's MY reading of the matter, but as Eodwine is Eorl and not Náin, I'll leave that kettle of fist for Littlemanpoet.

Very insightful! So Farmer A has also been remiss! That does not, however, mitigate the wrongful deed of Farmer B. Eodwine might just be seeing some cashflow for a change!

Folwren · 06-22-2006, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Hmmm...! My...! A find little pickle you've handed me.

So just to summarize, Freeholder A owns the field but hasn't been using it, and Freeholder B doesn't own it but has been using it without A's leave. Right?

Correct.

Quote:

How did B plant it without A noticing? Did B plant it in secret at night (that would be very strange)? Was A gone? Did A know B was planting and not try to stop him? Or did he try to stop him and was there some threatening, whether of bodily harm or legal recourse? These are the questions that Eodwine will be asking before making a decision. Folwren, I'd love it if you could provide answers to put in the mouths of A & B so I can use them in a post. Sound good?

What I had in mind while writing it was A knew B was planting and did not try to stop him. He knew the land was his, and figured that if he waited until the field was planted before interrupting the work and claiming the fruit as his, he'd have a lot of free work done for him.

Quote:

Anyway, Eodwine's likely settlement is that B is going to have to pay A for the use of the land, whether in fee or in kind, and will, if having planted without permission, probably have to pay a fine to Eodwine besides for having caused the problem in the first place.

That seems somewhat harsh, though, doesn't it? If a land lies fallow for two years as B claims it has, then surely the land should go to someone else. Eodwine rightfully asked Farmer B why he didn't come to him before planting, but B gave his reasoning (not enough time). It's not a very good reason, perhaps, for if he had thought ahead at all, he could have come to him before planting started, but it's still a reason.

Eodwine had not been Eorl very long, understand, so he really doesn't know what land is being well used and what land isn't. That's another job that you should send Thornden on maybe. Eodwine could not have fixed this problem for the settlers. The Eorl who owned the land before him should have (technically) had tabs on everything and seen that the field wasn't in good use.

Eodwine might consider asking A why he never used the good land.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

In a medieval society, it seems LIKELY to me that the Lord would want as much land as possible to be cultivated. And the typical scheme of things was two years planted, one year fallow. By leaving the land fallow, Farmer Owner was not fulfilling his obligation as a vassal of the Middle Emnet.

And, if was accept Farmer Planter's statement that he had a very narrow window in which to plant, then what he did was justifiable, and not to be harshly punished.

That's just it. Not only in the midieval society was land not generally allowed to stay fallow for longer a year, but even in more recent times, early American settler times, when they cleared a piece of land, they were expected to do something on it, and if they didn't, the law would sometimes come and take it away from them to give to another man who would use it for better purposes.

But, that brings us back to the problem of - it was not in B's rights to go and plant the land without having some sort of permission from Eodwine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I'd be interested in others' opinions as to how they see this case. Kinda fun.

I'm glad you think it's fun. I myself love cases like this, but I was worried that you might not. If I were smarter and planned on getting into a long term profession, I'd be very interested in going into law.

If you've any more questions, I can try to answer them. I could also ask my dad what would happen now adays in such a case - he's a lawyer (a good one, if you'll believe me). Actually, he's just recently had a case much like this.

-- Folwren

JennyHallu · 06-22-2006, 11:19 AM

I would like to see an example of American law denying the rights of ownership, no matter how early in our history.

Celuien · 06-22-2006, 11:34 AM

If A was aware of B's actions, that puts a slightly different slant on the matter. A is then guilty of implictly giving permission, then attempting to steal free labor.

But still, I don't like B's actions. Who knows? Maybe the land had been overworked by high nutrient demanding crops and A thought it needed more than a year to lie fallow. Maybe A planned to build something there. Or maybe A was just lazy. The point is that B needed to check before taking any action, both with A and with Eodwine. The worst A has done is been neglectful of the land, which would deserve a lecture from Eodwine. B has attempted squatting, and so theft, which I find worse.

*shrugs*

Firefoot · 06-22-2006, 11:39 AM

To me it comes down to these few things:

B is definitely guilty to some extent; he had no right to be using the land without some sort of permission.
But:
Why wasn't A using the land?
Did A know B was using the land? (I don't think there's really any way to get around a 'yes' answer to this... I would think it would be fairly obvious.)
If so, did A say anything to B? If he did, then A should not be counted guilty except perhaps for not using the land in the first place. If not... A is certainly to blame as well.

Formendacil · 06-22-2006, 12:23 PM

Maybe the wisdom of Solomon should be borrowed: let's cut somebody in half.

Nay, it looks guilty on both sides... funny how we humans like to do that. I'd still say that Farmer A (He's the Owner) is MORE wrong than Farmer B- laziness not being well smiled on in medieval times. Not to mention attempting to get profit from another man's labour. Farmer B (the Planter) seems to be guilty- in the main- of being overzealous. His statement of not having time to consult the Eorl, coupled with the relative newbieness of the Eorl (one month is NOT a long time), it seems likely to me that his offence is primarily of the "slap on the wrist" variety.

And I agree with Folwren concerning North American law. In both pioneer America and pioneer Canada, buying unbroken land from the government was cheap- but it didn't belong to you for X number of years unless you worked the land all those years. (The number of years, amount of crop, as well as other stipulations like living on the land, varied, I believe.)

JennyHallu · 06-22-2006, 12:39 PM

That was a contract:

Unclaimed land was purchased, in plots of a set area (usually an acre, which is why the Midwest is such a perfect patchwork), by "staking a claim", which meant living off the land for so long a time.

To "claimjump", one waited until someone had done the hard work of clearing the land, and then moved in while they were away (for whatever reason), then defend that land from the rightful claimants. That was wrong, and illegal, even if the claimjumper felt the claimants were not properly using the land. The only stipulation was that they supported themselves on that land.

None of that land had a previous owner, besides the Federal government when the land was ceded to the United States.

Farmer B is a claimjumper.

EDIT: and who cares if A let his land lie fallow? It's his decision. Perhaps he hadn't the hands to work it himself, but was planning to send the field as his daughter's dowry when she wed. Perhaps the land had been poorly stewarded and overworked by a previous owner, and needed to lie fallow for more time. Perhaps the man wished to put cattle on it, but was saving his money to purchase the livestock. The Rohirrim are not serfs, are they?

06-07-2006, 06:39 PM	#682
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	But that's not going to happen for a little while now, so let's not count chickens. I'm sure things will be perfectly fine long before then. I am serious: I have no problems with you, or trust issues. It's something you've got to figure out for yourself. We'll just take our time and see where things take us. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

06-08-2006, 02:42 PM	#687
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	Well, as things stand, I'd probably write a lot of internal dialogue reflecting on the rescue and court events followed by a question to Eodwine about what he wants to talk about... Does that work if I'm away tomorrow and can't continue until the weekend? __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

06-08-2006, 04:25 PM	#688
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,326	EGADS! You people could give a guy a heartattack! Seriously... go away for three days and things just blow up... still calming down... breath, Michael, breath! breathes breathes breathes Okay, I think I'm back under control... Really, you people are too natural of Roleplayers- your serious discussions and queries and complaints turn into dramatic confrontations... To weigh in, belatedly, with my personal opinions on the matter- I like jumping ahead in time, a week or three to a gap. It gives a greater feeling of permanence and real life than the belatedly long day-by-day version used in the Green Dragon. It is more condusive to longterm storytelling, which I think is what LMP is really looking for. However, I have to go middle-of-the-roadish with Firefoot and others. Jumping ahead is good. Trying to keep pace with the course of the real life year maybe not so much... It's a good IDEA, I'll grant- but an inherently difficult one. I may be a rather new RPGer on the 'Downs, but I come of an RPGing pedigree elsewhere, and of the 'Downsian RPGs, the Eorling Mead Hall's timeframe is the most similar to the one of my credentials. So I know from experience that while static characters (those with little or no development to worry about, however interesting they are) do well in a parallel-real life timeframe, developing characters do not. Or, at least, it becomes a rather different adventure to demonstrate the growth and change in quite the same way. Now, when I signed up with Náin, it was with both eyes open, and a full view of how things ran in the Mead Hall. The rules, as they stand, satisfy me well enough. I'd rather work around things than change them, being the sort of person that I am. If, however, LMP decides to bow to the will of the Commons, and change up the timescheme, then I want to make it known that I like the jumping ahead by days/weeks. If we were to jump ahead a week/fortnight every time we jumped, that would be fine with me. If that means that when Christmas rolls around and we are still in Midsummer, well, that's fine with me too. P.S: Jumping away from the great matters to those of finer detail: I am assuming that Eodwine will not be calling Náin to any sort of account at the court- seeing how thats sort of how I wrote it. But if there IS some sort of a plan regarding him... best let me know so that it's not a complete surprise. __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

06-09-2006, 08:41 AM	#691
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Aww, Farahil sees his baby sister growing up... Cute. I reserve my prior "I'm busy so I won't be around much" for at least a while longer. A week or two ought to cover it. And LMP, about your rule... what if I say no? What if I say that writing makes me completely miserable and I loathe every second of it? __________________ peace

06-09-2006, 09:10 AM	#693
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Oh good. 'Cuz.. you know... I hate this so much. __________________ peace

06-07-2006, 04:03 PM	#681
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Something else for the back burner: At some point Eodwine is going to need to go an adventure to the Gap of Rohan and into Dunland, in search of his wife who he thinks may be alive. I'm thinking that this trip may involve Saeryn, and maybe Degas, and other characters that may or may not wish to go with. While Eodwine is gone, the Steward will be in charge of the Eorling Mead Hall. I will still be writing Falco, Garreth, and Harreld, but with Eodwine gone, that means Marenil is in charage. So, you see how important it is to me that you and I, Jenny, be able to work together. This won't happen for a little while yet, but when it does, I foresee Eodwine being gone for what could be months.

06-08-2006, 02:07 PM	#686
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Celuien, I sort of left things hanging. Is there enough for you to go on?

06-08-2006, 08:42 PM	#689
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Thank you, Formy, for your considered thoughts on the matter of time jumps. I will take them into consideration along with everyone else's and make no unilateral decisions at any point. Nain is not going to have a direct role with Eodwine on this court date, unless he requests it.

06-09-2006, 08:58 AM	#692
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Hey, fine by me. It was just a joke.

06-09-2006, 09:17 AM	#694
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Pickles and milk...it's all pickles and milk. rolls around giggling What? Ask Silly. I'm having so much fun with Lin this morning, but I REALLY need to get back to work. Yay for Fridays! If you see me around much this afternoon, don't say a word about laziness and procrastination. It will fall on deaf ears.

06-10-2006, 08:47 AM	#696
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Lin doesn't leave until tomorrow morning, early, game time. Whether Leodern comes to say good bye is of course up to you. Which is to say probably. Does Leodern know about the secret? Congrats to your sister, by the by. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

06-12-2006, 05:40 AM	#698
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	I forgot to mention. I'm leaving this morning and will not be returning until Friday afternoon. Thank goodness Thornden has already been called upon. I'll see you all in a few days! -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

06-12-2006, 09:33 AM	#699
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Great story, Ang! What I'd like to do is have Eodwine say that he takes Manawyth into personal custody and will go to Dunland with Manawyth, for purposes of his own as well as to test the claims of Manawyth. This can then be part of the rpg I've been brooding on for a bit of a while. That does not mean that it has to happen right away. What do you think, Ang? I need to know if you're interested before Eodwine answers. Also this would involve Saeryn, as she has family she wants to find, or find out as not living anymore. Care to describe what you have in mind, Fea?

06-12-2006, 09:56 AM	#700
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	Slightly ripped off from my Scottish Clan's history. Mostly the arrow through the window. LMP, I would need a long break before embarking on such an RP but provided you're willing to wait even till Septemper or October I'd love to brave it. For the moment I'm already suspecting I'm overstretched and I have an increasingly full summer... Certainly there's plenty of dramatic potential. I made up Math on the spot, but I can see him as an excellent, morally ambiguous character. Manawyth left Llian in the hands of Gwaer's ruffians, so who can tell what's happened to her. And there's a twist in the tale Manawyth hasn't told the court. He likes sinning by omission... __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

06-12-2006, 10:26 AM	#701
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	LMP, remember when I first introduced Saeryn to the Horse? Runaway noble pretending not to be with limited success... She'd run away from Fenrir with the plan being to follow in the footsteps of her dead parents (Fenrir broke the news of their death and she trusts him not at all, so she wanted to learn it for real). She got sidetracked at the Horse and then Degas came and revealed that her sister had died doing the same (following dead parents) and Saeryn's "Me? Noble... of course not!" charade ended. Basically, she's still at the Hall for a few reasons: she's fallen in love with everybody there and doesn't want to leave them, she's got responsibilities now to herself and others, and she's dead scared now to follow and meet the same fate that seems to have taken half of her family. If she and Eodwine go on the adventure promised that slightly inebriated night, Saeryn would want to follow a preordained path in search of information about parents that are said to have died several years earlier and a sister that died recently. Fear will be her biggest obstacle as that's what it always has been for her in every situation. Presumably some fantastic tension would mount between Saeryn and Eodwine over who travels where, when, and with whom. And I'm completely with Ang about needing to hold it off until the end of summer. But the more I think about this possible RP... the more I like it. It's actually reminding me of Tapestry, LMP. __________________ peace

06-12-2006, 08:25 PM	#702
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	I'm fine with waiting until September or October as I have a very full plate already myself. At least that gives me the info I need for Eodwine to answer Manawyth. Yes, there is a bit of Tapestry familiarity there.

06-14-2006, 02:17 PM	#703
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	I will be on vacation from June 15 through June 20. I'll have computer access now and then. Anguirel, do you want to have Manawyth respond to Eodwine, or should we just move on, figuring that Manawyth 'gets it'?

06-14-2006, 09:16 PM	#704
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	I've edited my last post to open things up for anyone. It is lunch time and the Hall has been reorganized for food and drink. Be merry! Feel free to move the time along toward late afternoon; just remember, we need to give Noggy and Lommy a chance to introduce themselves before the court day is done; perhaps their patience can be tried and they are the last ones to be welcomed as the sun is about to set...? Just an idea.....

06-17-2006, 12:59 PM	#706
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	I'm back. May post later on today, am not sure. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

06-20-2006, 09:01 PM	#707
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	My apologies! I'm very sorry. That last post was way out of place. I neglected to read Elempi's post right before it. I've taken it down and now understand that Thornden is not wandering around with nothing to do but sitting in court again. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

06-21-2006, 02:38 PM	#708
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	I really dislike double posting, but I've done it here and in the Golden Perch now. . . I have two things to say about what I just posted in the Mead Hall: 1. I've no idea which grains are planted in early spring. I stuck in oats because I like oats, but I don't know if that's quite right. If someone else knows better about what is planted in the spring, then let me know and I'll go back and change it. 2. Elempi, I used Eodwine and made up that case to make it interesting. If you don't like what Eodwine said or did, then I can change it, of course. If you're completely appalled with it, I can take it out. If you have a decision that you want him to make immediately, I can edit it, or you can go ahead and write it yourself, or let me write it for later in the day, or whatever. That's all, folks. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

06-21-2006, 06:06 PM	#710
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	fallow field Hmmm...! My...! A find little pickle you've handed me. So just to summarize, Freeholder A owns the field but hasn't been using it, and Freeholder B doesn't own it but has been using it without A's leave. Right? How did B plant it without A noticing? Did B plant it in secret at night (that would be very strange)? Was A gone? Did A know B was planting and not try to stop him? Or did he try to stop him and was there some threatening, whether of bodily harm or legal recourse? These are the questions that Eodwine will be asking before making a decision. Folwren, I'd love it if you could provide answers to put in the mouths of A & B so I can use them in a post. Sound good? Uh,.... there may be more questions after these are asked, but we'll see about that later. Anyway, Eodwine's likely settlement is that B is going to have to pay A for the use of the land, whether in fee or in kind, and will, if having planted without permission, probably have to pay a fine to Eodwine besides for having caused the problem in the first place. I'd be interested in others' opinions as to how they see this case. Kinda fun.

06-21-2006, 06:16 PM	#711
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	My thoughts: Non-use of land to the 'best' purpose it could be given does not constitute abandonment of the land. Nor does it give a neighbor who does have what he considers a good use for the land the right to move onto the land without permission. Arrgh. Eminent domain cases. A pet peeve of mine. Anyone curious and up for hearing a rant can PM me after my exams are over this Friday. So my list of questions for the arguers in the case would be the same as Eodwine's. I would be strongly inclined to make the squatting party pay rent. And maybe a fine... __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

06-22-2006, 01:07 AM	#712
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,326	Whew... that IS a legal tangle there, Folwren... I agree with Celuien: the planting farmer is a squatter- at least by modern definition. I'm unsure how Anglo-Saxon (or Rohirric, for that matter) law would have dealt with the issue... My belief would be that, in a feudal system, the land technically all belongs to the King, and under him to the local lord. In this case, that would be Eodwine. In a medieval society, it seems LIKELY to me that the Lord would want as much land as possible to be cultivated. And the typical scheme of things was two years planted, one year fallow. By leaving the land fallow, Farmer Owner was not fulfilling his obligation as a vassal of the Middle Emnet. And, if was accept Farmer Planter's statement that he had a very narrow window in which to plant, then what he did was justifiable, and not to be harshly punished. Anyway, that's MY reading of the matter, but as Eodwine is Eorl and not Náin, I'll leave that kettle of fist for Littlemanpoet. __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

06-22-2006, 11:19 AM	#716
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	I would like to see an example of American law denying the rights of ownership, no matter how early in our history. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

06-22-2006, 11:34 AM	#717
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	If A was aware of B's actions, that puts a slightly different slant on the matter. A is then guilty of implictly giving permission, then attempting to steal free labor. But still, I don't like B's actions. Who knows? Maybe the land had been overworked by high nutrient demanding crops and A thought it needed more than a year to lie fallow. Maybe A planned to build something there. Or maybe A was just lazy. The point is that B needed to check before taking any action, both with A and with Eodwine. The worst A has done is been neglectful of the land, which would deserve a lecture from Eodwine. B has attempted squatting, and so theft, which I find worse. shrugs __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

06-22-2006, 11:39 AM	#718
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	To me it comes down to these few things: B is definitely guilty to some extent; he had no right to be using the land without some sort of permission. But: Why wasn't A using the land? Did A know B was using the land? (I don't think there's really any way to get around a 'yes' answer to this... I would think it would be fairly obvious.) If so, did A say anything to B? If he did, then A should not be counted guilty except perhaps for not using the land in the first place. If not... A is certainly to blame as well.

06-22-2006, 12:23 PM	#719
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,326	Maybe the wisdom of Solomon should be borrowed: let's cut somebody in half. Nay, it looks guilty on both sides... funny how we humans like to do that. I'd still say that Farmer A (He's the Owner) is MORE wrong than Farmer B- laziness not being well smiled on in medieval times. Not to mention attempting to get profit from another man's labour. Farmer B (the Planter) seems to be guilty- in the main- of being overzealous. His statement of not having time to consult the Eorl, coupled with the relative newbieness of the Eorl (one month is NOT a long time), it seems likely to me that his offence is primarily of the "slap on the wrist" variety. And I agree with Folwren concerning North American law. In both pioneer America and pioneer Canada, buying unbroken land from the government was cheap- but it didn't belong to you for X number of years unless you worked the land all those years. (The number of years, amount of crop, as well as other stipulations like living on the land, varied, I believe.) __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

06-22-2006, 12:39 PM	#720
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	That was a contract: Unclaimed land was purchased, in plots of a set area (usually an acre, which is why the Midwest is such a perfect patchwork), by "staking a claim", which meant living off the land for so long a time. To "claimjump", one waited until someone had done the hard work of clearing the land, and then moved in while they were away (for whatever reason), then defend that land from the rightful claimants. That was wrong, and illegal, even if the claimjumper felt the claimants were not properly using the land. The only stipulation was that they supported themselves on that land. None of that land had a previous owner, besides the Federal government when the land was ceded to the United States. Farmer B is a claimjumper. EDIT: and who cares if A let his land lie fallow? It's his decision. Perhaps he hadn't the hands to work it himself, but was planning to send the field as his daughter's dowry when she wed. Perhaps the land had been poorly stewarded and overworked by a previous owner, and needed to lie fallow for more time. Perhaps the man wished to put cattle on it, but was saving his money to purchase the livestock. The Rohirrim are not serfs, are they? __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles! Last edited by JennyHallu; 06-22-2006 at 12:42 PM.