Cryptic Clues

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Fea

So... is Gelmir close? Or should I give up entirely...

Yup.

Actually, the answer is a lot less complicated.

"Wretched fellow" is the straight clue. The rest is the cryptic clue.

[Mithalwen]

In that case Sador would surely be too straightforward...?

[The Saucepan Man]

'Fraid so.

[Mithalwen]

Erm well unless there is an unhappy character called Losadok who I have somehow preiously never noticed... I am stumped ....

*notes an improbability factor sufficient to transverse the universe*

I am stumped....

[The Saucepan Man]

Wretched fellow is sad taking look around.

To solve the cryptic clues, you need to find synonyms for "sad" and "look".

Taking = the latter word is within the former.

Around = turn the word before around.

Now, surely you can find the wretched fellow that I'm looking for ...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Ooh, any chance it would be Gollum?

Synonym for "look" is "lo". When it's tuned around it becomes "ol".
Another word for sad could be "glum".

So, when "ol" is placed within "glum" we get Gollum. He sure was a wretched fellow.

[The Saucepan Man]

Spot on dancing spawn. Well done.

Your go.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Thank you! I wouldn't have guessed it without your hints, though. I have never done cryptic clues before so I'm not sure if I can do this right. But let's see.

This noble guy is no Brit. when he follows a twisted mouse plus by hearsay he's sick.

[Arestevana]

A twisted mouse - Tar (rat backwards)
followed by...
he - a man
plus - perhaps adding a 'd' to 'a man' to get 'and'?
by hearsay he's sick - il (sounds like ill)

Giving you the noble Tar-Amandil, third king of Númenor.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Aww, you got it right away! Though you solved it in a different way than what I had thought.
(No Brit. = Am, plus = and)
Great job, anyway!
Your turn!

[Arestevana]

Thanks, Dancing Spawn. Here's the next:

The road goes ever on and on: Avian advisor hears ocean following

[Arestevana]

Oh, dear. I'm not very good at making these up...

Avian Advisor is the straight clue.

[Gil-Galad]

if thats a straight clue then it might mean Eagles or Thorondor, who were the eyes for Manwe...

[Arestevana]

Yes, "avian advisor" is a straight clue...but at least take a shot at the cryptic part.

The answer is not Eagles or Thorondor.

[Arestevana]

Perhaps a hint is in order?

If the road "goes ever on and on", how else might you describe it?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

You came up with a rather tricky cryptic clue, Arestevana.

If the road "goes ever on and on", how else might you describe it?

Umm, long? Tiring? Eternal? A blister in your toe?

And then there's that "hears ocean following" part. Should I search synonymes for ocean? How about sea, deep or brine? On the other hand, an ocean can rush, swish, roar or din... Another hint wouldn't hurt.

[Mettare]

If the road "goes ever on and on", how else might you describe it?

Endless?

The only thing I can think of is Endless Stair...

[Arestevana]

Yes, my clue does seem to be too confusing, doesn't it? You are both on the right track with your reasoning, but not with your answers. The clue refers, literally, to an avian advisor.

Mettare is correct with "endless", and dancing spawn is correct with the synonymous "sea". This gives you the instructions for solving the cryptic clue. Endless modifies the road, and one hears "sea" not "ocean". Is this sufficient, or is another hint required?

[Mettare]

Endless road = roa
Sea following = c

So is it Roäc?

[Arestevana]

It is indeed. The thread is yours.

[Mettare]

... let's give a try...

Look over the pond: you see boundary and behind it one sheep standing, followed by the first of nightingales




EDIT: I'm going away for about ten days, so you'll have to wait till I come back...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

At first glance I'd say it's Linaewen. A ewe is obviously there, followed by the first of 'nightingales' (n), but I'm still not sure where the boundary comes from. The whole, of course, is Sindarin for 'Lake of Birds'. One might call it a pond at a pinch.

[Arestevana]

Wild Guesswork? I'm sure you're dead on, Squatter.
For one thing, boundary could be 'line' (or if needed, 'lin') which fits quite nicely with your answer.

[Mettare]

Yes, that's correct.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Worldly jewellery unsuitable for choral piece.

[Morsul the Dark]

Bilbo's Mithril coat?

MItril more valuable than jewels
and it is mined from the earth Worldly

And unsuitable....
for choral piece... oh I got this one the elf king sasy "Bilbo you are more worthy to wear that suit than some that have looked more comely in it"

Unsuitable for choral piece or more great persons the greater of course being those in great tales and songs "Choral piece"

Mithril Coat

[Mithalwen]

Hmm - not convinced - I think it may be tighter than that. Decision for me is if the "straight clue" is wordly jewellery or choral piece .

Obvious choice for choral piece in ME would be the music of the Ainur but I cannot make the worldly jewellery fit that just now....

If choral piece is cryptic then I think that part of the word "choral" is found in the answer. (Edit but that doesnt work either ) Off to dig more......

[Morsul the Dark]

um Squatter is one of us right I mean I know Im usually wrong but i think i might have this one

By ten days I think sundasy would be day ten from the last post

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Sorry about that: I forgot I'd posted one here.

Neither of you has the answer, but Mithalwen is on the right track. This is an obscure one, but you'll find that the answer's quite close to home.

[Morsul the Dark]

Maybe dwarves, more specificly the seven dwarf fathers?

Eru did not create them so they were "unsuitable for choral piece"

but they laid in the ground until the elves came hence "worldly jewelry?"

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

That's quite a long way from being the right answer. This one has no more to do with Dwarves than with any other race. I really don't see how lying on the ground makes the Fathers of the Dwarves fit 'worldly jewellery' anyway.

[Morsul the Dark]

Squatter this is me we're talking about you know im horrible at these

I just say what sounds right to me anyway I will think about it and be back tommorow I figured Worldy because they were in the ground jewelry because they were fathers of an entire race so very very important(thats how i made it fit)

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I think you're just trying too hard with the answers. With my clues, you only need to look at the possible meanings of the words in the sentence. I do like to play around with puns and double meanings, so it's a good idea to know all of the dictionary definitions for each word in the clue. Another good idea to trawl a thesaurus for each word's synonyms. Also I can't recommend highly enough Saucepan Man's list of crossword conventions on page 1 of this thread. Useful things to know are the abbreviations of American states, the system of Roman numerals, the definite and indefinite articles in, say, French, Spanish, German and Latin, and the meaning of the Latin-derived notations (e.g., n.b, i.e., c.f., etc.). The meaning is more often hidden with obscure language than in a series of arcane connections between concepts or objects in Middle-earth, although the more you know about that the better. I would probably have described the seven fathers of the Dwarves as 'Somnolent patriarchs unknown to Snow White'.

The real art of these is to offer a description of the answer that is accurate, reasonable, logical and yet completely misleading. An example would be to describe 'Anduin' as 'large flower found in the Brown Lands' (to pick an example at random), expecting the reader to rack their brains about the flora of Middle-earth when they should be thinking about things which flow. Even when a clue is given, the elegant thing is to make that just as cryptic as the original question, as with my comment in an earlier post:

Neither of you has the answer, but Mithalwen is on the right track. This is an obscure one, but you'll find that the answer's quite close to home.

[Mithalwen]

I know some of the theory but it is the leap into practice that is hard ... and alas real life has left me out of practice (and sudoku is comptetition).... so thought I know about butter and spanner and flowers..... and various other bits of the arcane art.. I am not sure that being on the right track will help .... yet I will give it another go....

Edit - best guess is a star. Since Squatter has suggested that it is not particularly linked to a race of ME and they are part of our world (IE close to home). What we know as planets Tolkien described as Stars so I wondered if it was the elvish name for Pluto since that is missing from Holst's Planet Suit (unsuitable) ... inconveniently I think it is an orchestral work though Jupiter is used a setting for "I vow to thee my country". I think Jupiter is identified with Carnil. So that is as good as I get so far since the elves only named planets as far out as Neptune anyway..... but I don't think I am right..

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Since Squatter has suggested that it is not particularly linked to a race of ME and they are part of our world (IE close to home).

I think you may have misunderstood. I said

This one has no more to do with Dwarves than with any other race.

By that I mean that it isn't more relevant to any one race than the others. You're right in saying that the Planets suite isn't a choral piece, and Elvish cosmology isn't going to furnish the answer: I don't think it would be that accurate to refer to the planets as 'jewellery'. I can see where you're going with 'worldly', and you're in the right forest if barking up the wrong tree. You were closer to working out the reasoning last time: remember that something can be the solution for part of the clue without being the overall answer.

[Morsul the Dark]

10 day rule

Ok,

The Coyote's Bane of the giants

[Turambar]

Well I would like to know what the answer to Squatter's clue is.

[Celebrian]

How about the Nauglamir?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

If Nauglamír is an answer to my clue, I should point out that we're on a new one now. To satisfy your curiosity, though, I'll tell you that it isn't the solution.

Since I mean to recycle 'worldly jewellery' until someone solves it, I can't give Turambar the answer either. Looks as though you'll have to exercise your wits, old boy.

Coyote's banes? Giants? Sounds to me like a reference to The Hobbit. Presumably the coyote here is the Road Runner's arch enemy, who was regularly crushed by falling stones. I seem to recall that it's rocks that the stone-giants hurl at one another. Could that be the answer?

[Turambar]

Or football, since Thorin suggests that the stone-giants were playing football with the rocks?

Or simply, stone-giants ?