Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Mnemosyne]

...Well, there go my analyses.

Though sally is still acting remarkably cobblerish.

Problem is, it was so freakishly spontaneous!

So, for those of us who are not-known but innocent, we have 3 known innocents on our hands. (Well, maybe one cobbler)

Which means that of the others, 2 are also innocent, one is our dearly beloved WQ, and 3 are killers.

And if sally and phantom aren't cobblers, that makes our chances even better.

[satansaloser2005]

Day One Votes

Kath-->Nerwen at 6:36am
Fea-->Hansy at 4:37pm
Durie-->Sally at 4:39pm
Steve-->Gwath at 4:55pm
Eomer-->Sally at 6:18pm
Rikae-->Steve at 9:26pm
Hansy-->Fea at 9:45pm
Lari-->Nog at 10:17pm
Nog-->Fea at 10:25pm
Willa-->Steve at 10:36pm
Gwath-->Fea at 10:41pm
Izzy-->Gwath at 11:37pm
Sally-->Fea at 11:56pm
Mnemo-->Steve at 11:58pm
Phantom-->Gwath at 11:58pm
Brinn-->Gwath at 11:59pm

Did not vote: Mira



Day Two Votes

Willa-->Mnemo at 4:33pm
Noggie-->Izzy at 6:10pm
Kath-->Izzy at 7:21pm
Hansy-->Noggie at 7:31pm
Rikae-->Izzy at 7:50pm
Fea-->Izzy at 10:15pm
Lari-->Hansy at 10:50pm
Mnemo-->Kath at 11:53pm
Izzy-->Sally at 11:55pm
Sally-->Hansy at 11:57pm
Mira-->Mnemo at 11:58pm
Brinn-->Noggie at 11:58pm
Phantom-->Noggie at 11:59pm
Izzy-->Noggie at 12:00am

retraction of Izzy-->Sally at 11:55pm

Sally-->Izzy at 12:00am

retraction of Sally-->Hansy at 11:57pm

Did not vote: Durie, Steve



Day Three Votes
Durie-->Phantom at 12:14pm
Willa-->Sally at 5:43pm
Steve-->Sally at 5:47pm
Kath-->Hansy at 7:42pm
Fea-->Izzy at 9:27pm
Sally-->Hansy at 10:02pm
Rikae-->Izzy at 10:15pm
Hansy-->Phantom at 10:19pm
Lari-->Hansy at 11:39pm
Mnemo-->Hansy at 11:54pm
Brinn-->Izzy at 11:57pm
Phantom-->Hansy at 11:58pm
Hansy-->Sally at 11:59pm

retraction of Hansy-->Phantom at 10:19pm

Izzy-->Sally at 12:00am


By the way, I'm not taking for granted Phantom's innocence nor even my own, though we're both innocent. I only put someone as known if they're dead or flat out revealed. Thanks for listening.

[satansaloser2005]

Blah. I'm with Phantom on this; I need some sleep.

I'll be busy most of the rest of the Day, at least in theory. So if I'm not around until a few hours before deadline it's because I'm at work. (I currently don't know if they'll need me to come in or not, and won't know until shortly before I would leave anyway.) Just wanted to give you all a heads up and stuff.


Good night, dear ones. Post lots and lots while Silly Sally sleeps!

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by phantom

You don't realize what you've done, Brin.

But you will soon enough.

Yeah, apparently I don't.

But of course analysing the seer is obviously evil.

Kath left a clear trail to her dreams in case she was killed, and if anyone disagrees with my conclusions, feel free to point out another possibilities. It's late and I might have missed something.

Anyway, I can't see anything wrong with discussing Kath's possible dreams. Someone was going to analyse it if not me, and even if no one did, players would still reach these conclusions on their own. Yeah, it makes both tp and Sally great target for toNight (unless the baddies think one of you is the cobbler), but at this point it's better to have some known innocents around since it'll increase our chances of finding a baddie. Plus, if both black teams are still alive toNight, there's a chance that they'll choose the same kill resulting in only one kill for the Night.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Brin

But of course analysing the seer is obviously evil.

No, no, I wasn't trying to say that. You didn't do anything wrong. It was kinda unavoidable. But Sally's reaction makes me think that she didn't see it coming.

Originally Posted by Brin

Kath left a clear trail to her dreams in case she was killed, and if anyone disagrees with my conclusions, feel free to point out another possibilities. It's late and I might have missed something.

Looks fine to me.

[the phantom]

Anyway, I really need to get some rest. Playing chess is taxing.

I should be checking in about eight hours from now.

[the phantom]

Youtube is great.

Don't you agree?

Enjoy!

Nighty-night.

[Brinniel]

Okay phantom. I'm afraid now you're just confusing me...

I actually wrote up a lengthy post to analyse Lari, but it ended up being mostly lengthy quotes from her and no conclusions from me, so I don't think I'll bother to actually post it. I will say that her posts were rather safe and she once again played the newbie card (I guess we'll have to look out for that in the future). She voted for all known innocents (twice for Hansy), which doesn't help us much. I am quite relieved she is dead, not only because she was evil, but also because I don't think I would've ever figured her out otherwise. Lari seemed to be under a lot of people's radars, some slightly suspecting her, but not enough to actually really have a look at her (except for Izzy who did so late in the Day). Her lingering presence and vote could've been quite dangerous. Of course, there's a good chance there are more baddies who have managed to keep under the radar, so it'd be a good idea to have a look at them.

I also wanted to check out Eonwe's posts, but it's getting late so it'll have to wait for later...unless someone else beats me to it.

I need to have a closer look at everyone, and with less players it should be easier for me to do without taking too much time. As of now, one player that does stick out to me is Fea who I think garners some attention. One thing I noticed looking back through the game is how strange it was that she nearly got lynched on Day 1, then in the following Days received almost no suspicion at all. Of anything else, I find that most alarming. I think I'll take a closer look at her posts come tomorrow as I have a strong hunch that she is a baddie of some sort.

I also said I would look at wilwa, which I will, though I feel less sure about her. The main problem I have with wilwa is that she feels so innocent, that I worry I may be horribly deceived. After all, it's happened before.

Hmm...it seems I've assigned myself quite a bit of homework. Though I probably won't get around to it until the evening. For now, it's off to bed with me.

[Rikae]

Bah. I have to go, no time to catch up, but I'll be back later. There's one thing I'ld like to ask, though.
Sally, why did you put on that hunter show yesterDay? Did you have a reason, or was it just random....?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Sally, why did you put on that hunter show yesterDay? Did you have a reason, or was it just random....?

She had, I think, a reason.

I'm just not settled on which. I'm thinking, and willing to assume, that she wanted to see who would react, and how. I definitely don't think she's a wolf. She's cocky and gutsy, but rarely suicidal unless she's already considered a goner. Which she wasn't. She was up to something, I'm sure of it. Sal, is it too soon to tell us?

The phantom: everybody's going to kill me for saying this, but I figure he's probably been dreamed of. With eight dreams available over the past few Nights, I can't imagine the White- hang on, I just idiotically realized that Brinn just did this. Anyway... I concur with Brinn's statement.

Durelin I think is downright evil, based on the fact that I think Brinn is right about who was dreamed of by Kath, and just yesterday Durelin spent all this time saying that Sally and the phantom were blacker than black. Either she was ironically oblivious, or Durelin was trying to cause trouble. If she guessed Kath was the seer (which if she's a wolf, it seems fair to assume, since the wolves killed Kath...), she might have wanted the village to kill off 'known' innocents before finding out they were known.

++Durelin.

Dury, defend yourself.

[satansaloser2005]

Mnemo is ill. She will try to return to the game as soon as she feels like opening her computer, which she hopes will be sometime this afternoon/evening. That is all.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

She had, I think, a reason.

I'm just not settled on which. I'm thinking, and willing to assume, that she wanted to see who would react, and how. I definitely don't think she's a wolf. She's cocky and gutsy, but rarely suicidal unless she's already considered a goner. Which she wasn't. She was up to something, I'm sure of it. Sal, is it too soon to tell us?

The phantom: everybody's going to kill me for saying this, but I figure he's probably been dreamed of. With eight dreams available over the past few Nights, I can't imagine the White- hang on, I just idiotically realized that Brinn just did this. Anyway... I concur with Brinn's statement.

Durelin I think is downright evil, based on the fact that I think Brinn is right about who was dreamed of by Kath, and just yesterday Durelin spent all this time saying that Sally and the phantom were blacker than black. Either she was ironically oblivious, or Durelin was trying to cause trouble. If she guessed Kath was the seer (which if she's a wolf, it seems fair to assume, since the wolves killed Kath...), she might have wanted the village to kill off 'known' innocents before finding out they were known.

++Durelin.

Dury, defend yourself.

Great minds, hun. Great minds.

I'm not commenting on which players Kath may have dreamed, but in my book Phantom and I are not black players. Add to that the fact that I found Durie sort of suspicious from the beginning, on a hunch but still suspicious, also adds to my willingness to vote her. Her vote for Phantom yesterDay and then her reluctance to break the tie between what we (sort of) know were at least three innocents doesn't make her look any shinier.

[the phantom]

Just checking in briefly before I begin my daily chess board mopping duties (i.e. going to work- but it'll be fun today, I'm taking some kids to the circus!).

Very little has happened over night, and unfortunately I don't really have time to stir up any discussion at this time. But perhaps the Dury vote will do that. I'll see where we're at when I return.

[Durelin]

I've never been lynched as a wolf (or any werecreature for that matter), and that's not going to change.

Originally Posted by Sally

Her vote for Phantom yesterDay and then her reluctance to break the tie between what we (sort of) know were at least three innocents doesn't make her look any shinier.

But we don't know for sure. We can't. And we certainly didn't know a thing yesterDay.

And who did you break the tie with - someone we definitely know is innocent, so you really can't use that logic against me, dear.

Originally Posted by Fea

Either she was ironically oblivious, or Durelin was trying to cause trouble.

This is why I always regret playing these days.

I'm glad you all knew who the seer was and exactly whom she dreamed of. As if it really seems that way, with your voting records.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Durelin

I've never been lynched as a wolf (or any werecreature for that matter), and that's not going to change.



But we don't know for sure. We can't. And we certainly didn't know a thing yesterDay.

And who did you break the tie with - someone we definitely know is innocent, so you really can't use that logic against me, dear.



This is why I always regret playing these days.

I'm glad you all knew who the seer was and exactly whom she dreamed of. As if it really seems that way, with your voting records.

Point by point of this post.


Yes, but there's a first time for everything, love. Don't get cocky, the Black Queen could still get you. Unless of course you are the Black Queen, in which case the Bishop and Knight could still get you.

Very true, but I'm confident in the alignment/role of two of those players and one has been confirmed for all of us. I'm not saying I made the right choice, but I did make the best choice at the time. And I can use that logic, as mine was a misled, incorrect but well-meant innocent lynch, whereas you could have been orchestrating the thing all along. Not saying you were, but it's a possibility. And, if it would have helped the village, I'd have switched to myself yesterDay if it prevented the lynch of an innocent. But it wouldn't have. Besides, I was hardly going to kill Phantom, and between Hansy and Izzy he looked the most skittish and evil.

Awwww, don't despair. We still love you, you lovely little lupine, you.

As it happens....never mind. And yes, my voting record. Voted to save an innocent Gwath, voted to save a gifted Noggie, and then sadly voted to kill an innocent Hansy, though I didn't know that at the time and my secondary goals were to protect the more innocent looking lynchees. So 2/3 (3/3 in motive) lynches in favor of the village wellbeing looks absolutely horrible, I agree.


EDIT: Off to class. Back in an hour, though it might be just to check in before I go to work. I'll let you know either way.

[wilwarin538]

Wow, so I find myself greatly confused, Brinn's post about Kath's possible dreams seems to make some sense, but Sally and phantom's reactions to are really mixing me up.

Anyway, I'm gonna go back and read everything that happened toDay, again. See what I can try to figure out. I'll probably only get the chance to post once more, and my vote will be quite early.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Fea

If she guessed Kath was the seer (which if she's a wolf, it seems fair to assume, since the wolves killed Kath...)

Considering phantom bragged yesterDay about knowing who the seer was, this doesn't seem like a very good argument.

You're so wrong again, Fea, but this time at least you have a bit better reasoning...so maybe this time you're actually a wolf.

Originally Posted by phantom

You don't realize what you've done, Brin.

But you will soon enough.

Enough of that. Come out and say things if you're going to continue behaving so high and mightily. You too, Sally.

I think it's been pretty obvious this entire game that I have no clue what's going on. Why? Because I'm one of those helpless (white) pawns trying not to be manipulated too much.

Sally and phantom are cobbler lovers. That's the only explanation I can come up with for you two.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

Durelin I think is downright evil, based on the fact that I think Brinn is right about who was dreamed of by Kath, and just yesterday Durelin spent all this time saying that Sally and the phantom were blacker than black. Either she was ironically oblivious, or Durelin was trying to cause trouble. If she guessed Kath was the seer (which if she's a wolf, it seems fair to assume, since the wolves killed Kath...), she might have wanted the village to kill off 'known' innocents before finding out they were known.

Really, is that a good enough reasoning alone to vote for Dury? Just because some players caught onto Kath doesn't mean everyone would've...and if everyone had, then Kath would've been a rather poor seer, which I don't think she was. And for one thing, while I did have a slight suspicion that Kath might be the seer, I didn't let my opinion be swayed based only on that reasoning. There were only a couple of things that made me think Kath was seerish, one being her comment about not wanting to get Night killed (though really that could've been any non-ordo) and the comments she made about Nogrod that I noticed only after his death. I didn't see her hints about tp and Sally being innocent until after her death because I didn't bother to look. Yes, I had a small suspicion that Kath was seer, but usually I'm very wrong about these things and could've easily been again. It'd be a very bad idea to assume that just because she looks seerish that she is the seer, and therefore a bad idea to just assume that the other two were innocent as well. Because if I were wrong and she turned out evil, then my judgement of everyone else would be horribly off.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get to is that Durelin could've really been completely oblivious to Kath, or even if she did notice Kath looked seerish doesn't mean she'd let her hinted dreams (which she may not have even caught onto) off the hook just because of that in case Kath wasn't the seer. Of course it's possible that Dury is in fact a baddie; I'm really not sure of what her role may be. But for Fea to vote for her based only on that reason is very weak.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Considering phantom bragged yesterDay about knowing who the seer was, this doesn't seem like a very good argument.

Oh yeah, I was going to ask phantom:

So were you right all along about who the seer was?

Of course, to keep up his reputation I'm sure he'll answer yes regardless of whether he's telling the truth or not.

[Rikae]

Ok, wow.

I think I just figured something out.

Somebody was interestingly specific about something, both yesterDay and toDay. If my interpretation is correct, the Black Knight should be toast. Why don't we toast xem now, then? *gets marshmallow roasting stick* Why take a risk on xem protecting xemself toNight?

The explanation I can think of for what I saw makes sense of a few puzzles. If you convince me I'm right, you have my sword*.

*voting support

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Durelin

I'm glad you all knew who the seer was and exactly whom she dreamed of. As if it really seems that way, with your voting records.

Due to the fact that it seemed apparent that the White Seer had dreamed only of innocents, her votes were not binding. As I was in no way attempting to personify the role of Seer, I felt no reason to mirror her actions, and was consequently free to follow my own intuition.

This statement you've made is ridiculous: suggesting that we should mimic the votes of somebody who doesn't know who is evil is suggesting the same as if you said we should all bandwagon with the opinion of a newbie ordo. Either way is a cop out. Don't bother defending yourself if your defense is simply weak mud-slinging.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Really, is that a good enough reasoning alone to vote for Dury?

Yes. Yes it is.

I will not recant my vote today. It simply isn't going to happen.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Fea

This statement you've made is ridiculous: suggesting that we should mimic the votes of somebody who doesn't know who is evil is suggesting the same as if you said we should all bandwagon with the opinion of a newbie ordo. Either way is a cop out. Don't bother defending yourself if your defense is simply weak mud-slinging.

That's your argument against me, hon, thrown right back at you. Sorry you don't like it.

[Durelin]

Basically you're suggesting that I "should have known better", but instead voted for people we think the seer might have dreamed innocent, so therefore I am evil.

I'd call that mudslinging -- that I am either "too stupid" to haved recognized who the seer was and who they dreamed of, or I am a wolf. And either reason is a good one to vote for me.

Bleh. I need to stop wasting my time. Maybe I'll be back later. I'll at least come back to vote, don't worry about that.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Basically you're suggesting that I "should have known better", but instead voted for people we think the seer might have dreamed innocent, so therefore I am evil.

No, I'm claiming outright that you were trying to get 'known' innocents killed off early so that in the final stretch the ordos had no information to relying on. It would be mighty convenient if everybody the White Seer dreamed of died before they could be useful.

The argument would make no sense if the wolves didn't know who the Seer was, but given that they slaughtered her last Night, nobody can really deny that they had an inkling.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Durelin

That's your argument against me, hon, thrown right back at you. Sorry you don't like it.

No. Your rebuttal states that I should have voted for who the Seer voted for. Which is foolish when the Seer was voting on hunch just like everybody else.

My accusation states that you were intentionally trying to kill the people the Seer was hinting were innocent.

Major difference being, I was trying to kill wolves, and you were trying to lynch innocents.

[Durelin]

Don't you remember we just found out who the seer was toDay?

I really do have to go now. So sad, I was so enjoying this...

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

No. Your rebuttal states that I should have voted for who the Seer voted for. Which is foolish when the Seer was voting on hunch just like everybody else.

I think she was trying to say that you are accusing her for suspecting the seer's known innocents, yet so did several other players. And that you seem to think that everyone should've gone along with Kath and assume Sally and tp innocent. I don't think she ever said that you should copy Kath's votes. Why is Dury so suspicious for suspecting known innocents, but not anyone else who suspected either of them?

And why do you think everyone knew who the seer was? I didn't know; I only had an itch.

[Rikae]

I don't get it, Fea. I don't want to make the mistake of voting for you again because you aren't making sense - I've seen the folly of that now - but why are you so sure Durelin was sure about the seer and her dreams? I admit, I didn't know that (I must be an idiot) - I thought she might be something, but I was far from sure and certainly didn't have a theory about her possible dreams. For that matter, why are you so sure the wolves knew, either? If we're correct in assuming her dreams were all innocent, there wouldn't have really been anything to "jump out" at the wolves; plus, killing Kath seems to fit their pattern in any event.

EDIT: X'd with Brinn

[wilwarin538]

Due to my confusion about practically everyone , one of the only one's I'm still very suspicious of is Mnemo, so I will vote for her for now, since I'm not confident about being able to come back on later.

++Mnemo

[Isabellkya]

Oi to manipulation.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I think -again, I think- what he means is that we kill a wolf toDay, the Black Queen kills the remaining wolf and the Bishop kills the Black Queen. Since they made their kills on the same Night they would both count. It'd be weird though.

I don't think it'll happen though. I think there's only one way to end the game toNight, and I don't like it, so I won't even suggest it.

Ah. I would've thought that if that were the case; then it would go down to whomever submitted their name first. So I suppose it is ultimately up to the Mod hosting.

Mnemosyne, how do you figure we have three known innocents?

It may just be me. But it seems like most people (so far who've posted,) are under the impression that everyone had spotted Kath as the seer. Therefore, everyone should be on the same page with knowledge and thoughts.

I get the feeling that some are wrongly utilizing the benefits of hindsight. What I mean by this, is that you are using what we know now; and twisting it to mean that you've known it all along - or for awhile. Even if some of you had spotted the seer, I don't see how that really makes a huge difference. Yes, you may have spotted her - but that doesn't mean she was/is infallible. That you should forgo looking for baddies, while waiting for her to hand you a name on a silver platter.

It also may just be me, but the tone amongst some whom have claimed to of spotted the seer seems to be akin to - "I spotted her, therefore I'm a known innocent. Play catch up, and listen."

Anywhoo. I'm here. Though it is almost noon my time; so I'll be going away for lunch.

X'd since Fea's #663

[Rikae]

Oh yeah, on the werebear-and-wolves-killing-each-other thing:

I don't remember which, but I'm fairly sure I played a game in which two baddies attacked each other by night and both died. Call it the gingham wolf and calico bear phenomenon.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

But it seems like most people (so far who've posted,) are under the impression that everyone had spotted Kath as the seer. Therefore, everyone should be on the same page with knowledge and thoughts.

No, no no no no no no.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying it was so obvious that everybody should have noticed, because let's face it: not everybody is as perceptive as I am. ()

What I am trying to say is that I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the wolves had no idea just who they were killing last night, and chose their kill on whim thinking, "Hey, maybe we might get lucky." Wolves don't kill that way. With the White Hunter off the map, the wolves really don't need to be picky about who they kill at night, apart from not wanting to draw attention to themselves which even if they did draw attention to themselves, they could always yell that they're being framed.

What I'm saying is that the wolves had to have some idea that Kath, the seer, was the seer, and that if they knew that before the Night phase, then they had to have a decent idea who she'd dreamed of. If they didn't guess who she'd dreamed of, how would they even suspect her as the seer?

You don't look at somebody and say, "Wow, xe seems pretty sure of no player in particular. I think xe's on to something." You look at somebody and goes, "Wow, xe has repeatedly defended this player, has defended this player almost as much, starting the next day, and just started defending this player. Maybe xe, based on this pyramid pattern, might be the Seer."

The wolves must have guessed she was the Seer, and if so, what I am saying isn't that everybody was in the know, I'm saying that the wolves had insight that would have colored their action.

And if the wolves thought that Kath had dreamed of the phantom and Sally, then take a look at when Durelin spends so much time saying how evil the phantom and Sally are.

It absolutely reeks of trying to do away with players that we all now know are innocent.

I repeat, I'm not trying to say everybody should have or did notice any of this.

I'm saying that I noticed it, and that I cannot believe that the wolves, who killed our Seer, had absolutely no idea what they were doing.

---

And sorry if I come off as brash, I'm just running on all cylinders, totally manic, and I'm like... energized. I've been rearranging furniture, and I just glazed pottery, and I'm going to make this Caribbean stew I've never made for supper, and just- I'm typing mad fast without editing, so this is me just being wildly inspired by this really amazing lecture I listened to today.

Seriously, life-altering lecture.

[Durelin]

So now you're kinda basing all your arguments against me on the assumption that I am a wolf. But really I guess that's just how this game works.

Originally Posted by Fea

It absolutely reeks of trying to do away with players that we all now know are innocent.

We do? And as this implies - we did? The baddies, the woles in particular, are the ones with the most information on innocents, ya know.

I don't really think you're a baddie. Not really. I'm hardly an important lynch. I might be/seem like an easy lynch at this point, though, I don't know.

Anyway. Your argument has been made, my somewhat of a (rash at times) counter-argument has been made. So let's move on. There are more people left than it feels like there are. You know what I mean?

wilwa's very under-the-radar. Rikae's been rather calm this game (though she's also just been busy)...should we be worried? I kinda want Rikae to be the Black Queen.

Izzy still hasn't managed to get lynched.

Brinniel, Mnemo...they're those types that people keep saying "wellll, I'm worried about them, but..." and that has never come to anything. They both feel rather innocent to me, but I do tend to be wrong.

Sally and phantom need to stop acting like wizardy cobblery types. Though I expect one of them really is our cobbler. I think phantom, and sally is just sally but eh, who cares. Basically I'll probably be completely ignoring them both.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Durelin

The baddies, the woles in particular, are the ones with the most information on innocents, ya know.

Oh piffle to you.

On a serious note, I just remembered that the cobbler is dreamed as innocent. So even though I'm convinced Kath dreamed of who Brinn said she did, I forgot the problem that they aren't actually known good guys. They're more like known not-wolves. Which is still better than nothing, but I need to be more careful about assumptions. My bad, and I apologize in general for that memory lapse.

I'll take a closer look at others later, but in case it's not obvious, I certainly have more opinions than I'm letting on. I just don't like looking wrong, so I wait until I'm reasonably certain about things to say them.

I mean, in all honesty I might be wrong about Durelin. I don't think I am, but I could be. It wouldn't be the first time I whole-heartedly went after somebody who wasn't the role I thought they were.

[Mnemosyne]

I'm totally with Brinn about how come Fea hasn't been suspected since Day One?

And now we're having a lovely chat about that (whereas before it was always just phantom and sally), which probably could get a wolf but might just end up distracting those of us who are white players from looking at others.

Izzy, what I meant by "three known innocents" was that if you are an innocent player, and we are all reasonably assured that phantom and sally are innocents of some sort, you know that those three players (including yourself) are innocent. Which narrows down the lynch opportunities, on the white side's favor.

Fea, if Dury!wolf was so darn convinced that Kath was the seer and her seer hints were correct, then why didn't Kath get killed earlier?

And for the record, I had no idea that Kath was the seer. Heck, I even voted for her.

wilwa, dear, normally I wouldn't complain if you're voting me, but since this is endgame (where everything stands on the point of a knife) that's a bad move to make for the game's sake. Could we please lynch at least one black player before this is done?

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so I have an updated list. Hopefully it will tell the right people what I want it to tell them. *shifty eyes* And for the record, I'll explain all of this at some point. Now's just not that point, so lay off me and try to catch a baddie. I'm not worth the innocents getting all worked up over.

And now a list


Innocent
Sally
Phantom

Leaning Innocent
Izzy

No Bloody Clue Currently
Willa
Mnemo
Fea

Leaning Guilty
Brinn
Durie

Should have known
Rikae

[Isabellkya]

While I understand Brin's conclusions on the suspected dream targets of Kath. I don't see how that points to them as known innocents. Sure, it will be a higher probability that they were and are. But I don't recall Kath saying outright whom she dreamed of, and what the results were.
We indeed still have the Cobbler amongst us - though at this point I think death is the only certainty of anything.


X'd with Mnemosyne and Sally. Fixed punctuation as well.

[Mithalwen]

Is a grey queen.... I like....

[Mnemosyne]

...Except that I had come to the same conclusions independently. But this doesn't rule out one of those two as cobblers!

[satansaloser2005]

Blah. I hate being so indecisive. YesterDay I thought one thing, last Night another, and now I've changed my mind again. This is ridiculous.


I'm going to go read through the thread and see what I can see. Maybe look at voting records for some of the players who are still living. Back soon.


(And Mnemo? Dude, we gotta stop talking to Mith and get to work at some point. I'm just sayin'.)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Ok, wow.

I think I just figured something out.

Somebody was interestingly specific about something, both yesterDay and toDay. If my interpretation is correct, the Black Knight should be toast. Why don't we toast xem now, then? *gets marshmallow roasting stick* Why take a risk on xem protecting xemself toNight?

The explanation I can think of for what I saw makes sense of a few puzzles. If you convince me I'm right, you have my sword*.

*voting support

I'm wondering if you're saying what I think you're saying.