WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[satansaloser2005]

I think the only one who wants to take a look at Rikae is Mac.


In seriousness now, I think Tum's being a squirm nugget. (Yes, nuget. Shut up.) She seems very frustrated misunderstood new kid but it's not frustrated misunderstood innocent new kid. Her comments on Steve (despite her attempt to clean them up) and her general lack of proper....anything?....make me think that she is in fact a wolf (or evil on some level, or just plain not out for village victory like I am, and I don't like people who disagree with me ).


I still think my Hestia plan is valid. Not only do I think it would be nice to know that Hestia is te false seer (or the real one, if that's the case), I also think Nog's guilty. Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't make that very clear in my original Nog plan post, but he's either unable to help the village -not his fault, but dying and revealing information could help us out considerably- or he doesn't want to help the village. Either way, let's get rid of him and make him as useful as possible.

[Rikae]

autume, if you want to try to get me lynched, that's all well and good, but can I just ask that you don't use chatspeak while doing so? That would really be adding insult to injury.

EDIT: X'd with Sally - more insults, hey.

[the phantom]

lol, Rikae, r u serius?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

EDIT: X'd with Sally - more insults, hey.

That wasn't meant in a rude way. That was meant in a way I can't put on the Downs. See the dude? He's....well he's very....never mind, you get it.


EDIT: x'd with Phantom. I will smite thee with an epic smite (if I had such skills)!

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Sally

I still think my Hestia plan is valid. Not only do I think it would be nice to know that Hestia is te false seer (or the real one, if that's the case), I also think Nog's guilty.

But Sally, if we lose Hestia in the process, that doesn't do us a lot of good, does it? Let's say Hestia's a true seer, and Nog is a wolf - best case scenario. He dies, and if he has a lover, said lover is on the side of the village with special powers. Still, as soon as the remaining wolves have a chance, they'll take her out. But what if he's a wolf's lover? By lynching him we'd give special powers to a wolf, who would certainly use them to take out Hestia, right? And by not lynching him, we wouldn't learn anything.
And if Nog is an innocent, we've flushed out one of our seers for nothing. Now, if Hestia got her powers by picking the remaining seer and we find she's the genuine article, we then know we have another seer we can trust anyway, but if she got them by picking Boro, we'll have flushed out our ONLY TRUE seer. Soo... I think Hestia should only reveal, if she does want to do that, if she picked the other seer. If she picked Boro, she should keep quiet, as she may be too valuable to sacrifice. Just my two cents.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by autume98

Let me try this again. Am I happy that an innocent is dead. No. I just felt that his innocence proved the reason I voted for BG. Which just happens to be why people were going after me yesterDay.

tum, it would be fair enough to argue the next Day, after Eonwe was dead, that his innocence made you look better.

It's quite another to say this about a still-living lynch-candidate:

Originally Posted by tum

Now if Eonwe turns out to be a wolf then I know that will look REALLY bad. So I'm really hoping that Eonwe is someone good.

Do you really still not understand the difference?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Basically, you never hope that you're right about someone's innocence and that they'll be lynched. The game doesn't work like that. Unless you're evil.

Yes, but then, how often do baddies straight-out say, "Ooo, I do hope we lynch an innocent toDay"? They think it, of course, but they tend to keep that to themselves, rather.

I mean, I'm not saying what she said doesn't sound bad, but it's also just... weird.

Is it possible that tum is an innocent who still hasn't quite grasped the idea that WW is a team-game, and thinks it's about winning by herself? Some newbies do see it that way... but then I know she's played several games before this.

EDIT:X'd since Sally at #599.

[satansaloser2005]

Well from RL experience I know she's far from stupid, so....I don't know. I'm pretty sure she's of the furry variety. After all, this would only be her second (real) game as a baddie, so I could see some wolf cub mistakes like this still happening.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by the phantom

lol, Rikae, r u serius?

Glirdan, I would like to use my assassination power on Phantom. What? I don't have any? Bah.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Sally, underlining mine

I still think my Hestia plan is valid. Not only do I think it would be nice to know that Hestia is te false seer (or the real one, if that's the case), I also think Nog's guilty. Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't make that very clear in my original Nog plan post, but he's either unable to help the village -not his fault, but dying and revealing information could help us out considerably- or he doesn't want to help the village. Either way, let's get rid of him and make him as useful as possible.

Hmm. While I'm not sure about Nog myself and while I think his death would shed some light on other things, I distrust Sally's idea of offhandedly killing him while he's not properly present. Like, not the idea itself so much, but the way she talks about it. Especially in the underlined part she sounds not only opportunistic but downright bloodthirsty. It's rather like she saw a great opportunity to get rid of Nog (ie. he's unable to put up a huge self-defense show) and decided to use it seemingly for common good. Now I believe an innocent Sally could certainly come up with something of that kind, but I'm not sure she'd introduce her idea quite like that.


EDIT: x-ed with Rikae, Nerwen, Sally and Rikae

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Hmm. While I'm not sure about Nog myself and while I think his death would shed some light on other things, I distrust Sally's idea of offhandedly killing him while he's not properly present. Like, not the idea itself so much, but the way she talks about it. Especially in the underlined part she sounds not only opportunistic but downright bloodthirsty. It's rather like she saw a great opportunity to get rid of Nog (ie. he's unable to put up a huge self-defense show) and decided to use it seemingly for common good. Now I believe an innocent Sally could certainly come up with something of that kind, but I'm not sure she'd introduce her idea quite like that.


EDIT: x-ed with Rikae, Nerwen, Sally and Rikae

Greenie, I think he's guilty anyway (or at least has a good possibility of being so). I also don't plan to act without him being here. Hestia could dream him toNight and toMorrow we could enact the plan if everyone likes. I'm not sneak attacking him.

[Nienna]

Hey all, I'm around. I should be here now until Deadline if I must (though my sleeping habits would not approve). I agree that Hestia should only come out if she's comfortable with that. Sally's plan seems like that of an innocent. I'm not really worried about her at all.

I have some time so I think I'll do a few analysis(es?) of people. I'll probably pick a heavy poster and a light poster to begin with just because these things take me forever. Lets say Rikae and Zil.

I'll also try and keep up with what is being currently posted and give you my thoughts.

[the phantom]

I see no reason to do a special Seer-test plan. Remember, the Seer is not just being told innocence/guilt, but the actual role! It won't take long at all for the Seer to figure out if the dreams are right, and there's no reason to set up a special kill for it, especially if you believe that you are purposefully letting someone furry live an extra day in order to have a test subject. Plus, the business that it wouldn't be proper to off him because he's gone? If you think about it, your plan is much more cruel, as you're basically deciding, "We're going to wait for Nog to come back and then lynch him. That way he has all day to experience the frustration as he kicks and thrashes in vain."

[Lalaith]

A couple of points, having read through (very quickly) what's been posted since I've been gone...
1. Yes, I now see that Hestia could have named Boro just as easily as the other Seer. My bad.
2. Could somebody please try to explain that statement of Nogrod's that I highlighted about innocents earlier today? It's been niggling me all day and I simply can't think of a reason why he said it that isn't really, really dodgy.
3. A variant on Sally's Hestia-plan that might work better and be less wasteful of innocent lives.....we could wait until either Seer actually dreams of something that confirms that they are true or false, and they could then tell us. If it is Hestia, s/he would be able to confirm if the other Seer is true or false, without naming them. If the other Seer, Hestia would then know if s/he were true or false. Then the protection racket with the Ranger/Hunter-Guardian could kick in...does that sound better?
Anyway, more later when I've gone over posts more closely.

[A Little Green]

I went through Lalaith's posts. I'm not going to quote or even mention them all here, and most of my quotes are not entire posts - I'm just commenting on stuff that seemed noteworthy in one way or another. I picked her because I had no opinion whatsoever on her and don't believe many others do, either. Besides, her avatar is so cute that I keep forgetting that she can be a wolf just as well as anybody else.

Day 1

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Some interesting discussions here - I think the stuff about how to deal with the true/false seers is very helpful. Lots of people have actually been genuinely helpful today, and normally I go with that as a sign of innocence...unfortunately, I think that in this game, everyone, guilties and innocents alike, is trying to make sense of things so that is no longer a helpful guideline on how to vote.

Well, I am, like a few others here, forced to vote early due to European timezones. It's a baffling choice even by first day standards, and all I've got to go on is a hunch that the following vote could throw up something useful:
++BOROMIR

The fourth vote of the Day, and the only one for Boro. As she voted so early it's hard to condemn the vote this way or that. (Having voted even earlier on Day 1, I can totally relate to the lack of proper material.) I disagree with her on helpfulness=innocence, but that has nothing to do with her innocence/guilt so I won't dwell on that. Moving on...

Day 2

Interesting ideas about Boro. I missed the Mira/Keeper comment that phantom picked up on, it's ambiguous to say the least. As for my thoughts - reading over the thread yesterday, I thought I had picked up on Hunter hints from Boro.

In hindsight, it is of course good Seer tactics to pretend to be a Hunter. But would any of the above-named, if indeed they were wolves, seemingly being threatened, have risked a Boro kill?

A good point about possible Hunter hints from Boro, and unless I'm mistaken she was the first to bring that up.

Greenie, like you I was unimpressed by the BG voters - to me she was newbie-ish, not wolf-ish - but but there were seven of them and they can't all be wolves. It was an easy first-day option for innocents and wolves alike, I guess. The Eonwe bandwaggon I have more sympathy with, as there was some reasoning behind it.

For some reason this made me think of a really smooth wolf, disagreeing with the bandwagon but not too aggressively (so as not to rub anyone the wrong way). Hmm. Really I might be just paranoid though, there's nothing legitimately wrong with the quote.

Reading through the thread, I am finding Mac, Wilwa, Loslote and Nogrod (before it got too late, that is...!) looking helpful.
I am finding Keeper/Mira, Sally and autume rather strange.

Apart from all the Boro stuff, this is the first time she posts opinions on other players.

Oh, I just wanted to remind everyone, in case they had forgotten, that today the Mythomane comes into play. Potentially. Although given the number of gifteds in this game, the chance of him/her picking something that makes a difference is pretty high.

This makes me think better of her, because I'm not convinced a wolf would want to draw attention to the Mytho. If the Mytho picks a wolf, the pack certainly doesn't want the village to be reminded of that any more than is unavoidable; and if s/he picks a Gifted, I don't see a wolf wanting to parade that too much, either.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Sally, I know what you mean about feeling useless though. You actually worry me less today than you did yesterday.

Who has posted so far today? It seems like the focus has been on just a handful of players....it feels like a smaller village than it should be.

Also, the MM. I don't want to sound like I've got a bee in my bonnet but you do all realise there is just under a one in 4.5 chance that we now have five wolves?

She keeps making sense and being nice. The last paragraph, about the Mytho, is something that left me a bit baffled. There was some confusion I believe about when the Mytho changes roles, but it didn't happen until the next Night. So I'm thinking - who, in the village, is most likely to dwell on the Mytho turning into a wolf? (Answer: the wolves.) A Lalwolf might have paid a lot of thought to the Mytho turning to a wolf (counting the probability and all such) and then thinking like "well, why not post it?" I'm not sure I'm making sense now though.

A lot of rowing going on, some of which is kind of hard to follow.
Well, I need to make up my mind soon as it is bedtime over here.
So first,....Our Big Beasts. I am actually not inclined to vote for any of these at present. Probably they are just fighting for the hell of it and most of them innocent anyway. Also I believe that the wolves and gifteds will sort out the high profile players – they will surely kill/dream of them at night leaving us with fewer suspects. My thoughts on them anyway…
Rikae…she does love a scrap, guilty or innocent she will never let things lie. I have never been able to tell the difference between a good or bad Rikae and this time is no different.
Nog – lots of talk and noise. Quite a lot of it makes sense but some of it is a bit more bonkers than usual. Why? Could be any number of reasons.
Phantom – definitely touchier than usual but he hasn’t played for a long time.

Next – some of the others who are coming under suspicion/attracting attention today
Mac – now I may be rusty but I don’t get where all this Mac suspicion is coming from. It could be because I was thinking along the same lines about Boro as he was, but he seems quite sensible to me.
Eonwe – now there is more cause for concern here. I agree Boro’s words are open to interpretation. But Eonwe also did something rather unhelpful today which might just have been careless but still…with not much to go on I know but with an early vote needed from me, he is a likely candidate.
Tum – Again, someone who may get my vote. Not happy about her(?) at all. Yesterday she seemed ‘off’, she was arguably the dodgiest of the BG votes and Zil’s case against her today was pretty good.
Nerwen – The Hades thing – well, maybe. If she’s Hades herself, she’s very bold. If she’s Persephone, all she would have needed to do is watch and read, so there would have been no need for such rashness. She’s definitely active and ready to get involved in all the rows.
And the rest…
Nienna – Now I didn’t much like her post today. She covered just a few players, only to say that she didn’t have a feel for half of them. Seemed overly desultory and posting-for-the-sake-of-it, although she might have just been RL busy.
Mira/Keeper – the whole Boro interchange yesterday was weird and I am not happy about her in general.
Shasta – comes, makes a few reasonably sensible statements and goes off again.
Folwren, see above, much like Shasta. Could be anything. I know some of you have said the same about me so it’s only fair to reserve judgment.
Lottie – I don’t know, I thought she seemed thoughtful yesterday but odd today. Reserving judgment
Zil – I liked the case he made against Tum, and he seemed to be unhappy about Nienna’s post as was I. as with Mac, I tend to trust those who seem to be thinking the way I do, so…
Sally – like I said, I thought she was acting oddly yesterday but I feel better about her today
Greenie – active, thoughtful and clearly trying to be fair – so I trust her for now
Wilwa – not seen her around as much today but seemed helpful yesterday so I’m quite at ease with her
Kath – her voice was ever soft, gentle and low, an excellent thing in woman, I suppose, but not necessarily during WW. Come on girl, check in and lets hear what you’ve got to say…

So, if I may over-simplify a bit, she's saying approximately the following:
Positive: Mac, Inzil, Sally (was suspicious before but better now), Greenie, Wilwa
Negative: Eonwe, autume, Nienna, Mira
Has no clear opinion on the alignment of: Rikae, Nog, Phantom, Nerwen, Shasta, Folwren, Lottie, Kath

Oh curse these early votes. So difficult to decide.
Well as things stand it is between Eonwe and autume for me. Now Tum hasn't even been on today to defend herself, so it seems harsh to vote for her...I'm going to go for Eonwe. As I said before, there's a reasonable Boro-based case against him and the something else too.

++ Eonwe

And here is her Day 2 vote. I'm debating now if it's the genuine tone or the plain easiness of the vote that I should pay more attention to. Her reference to "something else" (or " But Eonwe also did something rather unhelpful today which might just have been careless but still…" in her list post) makes me think slightly better of her, as I can't see what a wolf would gain in saying that, or how a wolf would come up with such in the first place.

Day 3

Eonwe – well, he was telling the truth after all, he was the Ord. I think the most likely thing is that Boro was a false seer and dreamt of Eonwe as a wolf. It occurred to me today that the -4 might have been a reference to four wolves. If this is the case then it’s very good news for us because we would now have two True Seers rather than two False.

My other main voting possibility of yesterday - Tum – looking over Loslote’s analysis and my own reading of her posts, she seems to be playing the ingénue. Well it might be playing - or it might be for real. Zil’s analysis of her yesterDay was more damning that Los’ analysis today (which made her look more like a for-real ingenue.) And on the subject of Los - I agree with Nog, why post such a long analysis without drawing any concrete conclusions? It looks a bit dodgy to me.
One thing that did play well with me, was Tum’s “here I am, what do you want to know” late last Day. It seemed a fairly candid, innocentish thing to do.
I think I am fairly sure about one thing - Tum, Mac and Los are unlikely to be wolves together.
And further development on this theme - both Mac and Nogs seem to have stopped going for each other and both turned their sights on Lottie. I need to look at her more closely myself, I don’t think we’ve ever played together so I don’t have a real feel for her at all.

Then, one of the major post-bedtime events of yesterday was this last minute rallying of votes for someone other than Eonwe. Now I can see the purpose of doing that but that purpose is rather defeated if the voting is orchestrated in the way Mac seemed to be doing. And the talk of Nienna as “easy victim” needs explaining.

Nogrod, lots of your reasoning this morning seems sensible to me (result of a good night’s sleep?) but this I would query quite strenuously:

Actually , unless I have really misunderstood your point, it is not general knowledge that any of them were innocents except Eonwe. How do YOU know? It is a shame that you're not around to answer this...

Her only post this far toDay. She makes some shrewd points that are made from a very innocentish point of view. Just stuff that I'm not sure a wolf would have thought of.

So that was it. Conclusions? I'm fairly okay with Lal for now, though I haven't entirely abandoned the possibility of her being a very smooth wolf, either. The thing is, my logic can find nothing wrong with her. The Mytho thing was pretty much the only even half-legitimate point that could be made against her from what I read - and even that is rather questionable. Mostly the bad feelings I got from her posts were due to her being too understanding and nice and not rubbing anyone the wrong way, but as far as I recall she's always nice, so that's hardly a legitimate argument, either. Both her votes were relatively easy (the second one especially), but an early vote almost always is. She's generally consistent and sharp and makes points from an innocent viewpoint. So, in short - if she's a wolf, I'm almost tempted to say she deserves to win.


EDIT: x-ed with Nienna, Phantom and Lalaith herself

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by autume98

I think I am catching on, usually it is ok to joke around on day 1, but form your own opinions. Don't just agree with others or else it looks like a wolf hiding amongst the innocent. Gotcha!

People have commented on this before, but I had to note - this looks very suspicious. She even says that she's working out how to not look like a wolf, instead of learning how to find wolves.

Originally Posted by autume98

I just felt that his innocence proved the reason I voted for BG. Which just happens to be why people were going after me yesterDay.

It doesn't really, though. Because you see, only a wolf would know that he wasn't another wolf.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Just one example of several; apparently Lottie's suspicion of Tum is based heavily on the assumption that Mac is evil. Slip? What is this? Nope, Lottie, we can't know this "look\s good" without knowing Mac's role... do you?

No, but I can say that Tum coming up with her own ideas is a refreshing change that makes me feel better about her. I would have felt better about her with very little care as to what original idea she came up with, simply because it proved she was actually thinking.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

While we're on the subject– Lottie, that is a horribly confusing way to set out your analysis. I think I know why you did it that way, but honestly, I'm not surprised so many people gave up in despair.

Sorry...it made sense in my head, but looking back over it, I can really see why it wasn't a good idea.

Originally Posted by autume98

That was an illogical plan that came to me as I was typing. It wasn't a ploy. It would've been a ploy if I pushed for it. In the end I negate it. With what u pointed out I would've negate it after that too. I don't want to lynch innocents.

I am beginning to wonder about Rikae's vote. I know I made a comment about it, but the first sentence was all said in fun...nothing was meant by it. My second line was about the fact that I wasn't sure who guilty at the time. Even then I didn't deem it appropriate to throw away my vote. I would take a look at her, but I have to be at work. If no one else does before I get back then I will.

Her "I don't want to lynch innocents" sounds too much like trying to insist she's innocent. Her flip on Rikae is odd, too - especially coming right after Zil commented on her earlier position.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading.

[wilwarin538]

About the Cupcake's plan. I think not. I'm strongly against gifted reveals, except when the Seer has a wolf or it's at a crucial part of the game where known innocents can give us the win. Day 3? No. At this point, I just hope the Seers can figure out for themselves whether they are false or not. ONLY situation I'd be good with Hestia revealing is if she realises she's false, then she could come out with being false and say one of two things: "I picked Boro, therefore the other Seer is real" or "I picked someone else whom I shall not name, and therefore they are false". That way the other one can stay hidden either way. Even then though, I'd still kind of frown upon it.

But right now? It seems unlikely that Hestia knows whether she's legit or not, so everyone should keep their mouth shut. In a game like this where there are already a bunch of people who know other's identities (Seer, Lovers, Shirriffs, Hunter-Hunter/Guardian, those Protectors, Hestia knows the Seer, and possible extra dreams if a Lover dies), if we start getting a bunch of reveals than that's just too much role knowledge going on, and it could start unbalancing the game.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

So I knew Glirdan had to have plans up his sleeves; this game has been far too simple so far. I combed through the narrations carefully, looking for clues, but there were none to be found on a special game event or secret code.

Then I started looking at his admin thread posts. Still nothing. I was becoming disheartened but I knew that if I looked hard enough I could find his plan.

And found it I did.

Now the only thing we have to figure out is what the Night loosed upon us. Half an hour clearly stands for something, but I can't decide what. Perhaps it was a play on words for "half of our" and it's meant to signify another evil lover's activation? "Hell hath no fury" and all of that? Who could this be?!?!

This whole thing just cracked me up. Cause I started reading and got all excited that my brilliant bestie still had something sneaky going on, and that it would be awesome. And then, it was just a spelling mistaking. Hehe, *hearts cupcake*.

So I get what is so strange about Tum, and the whole being excited Eonwe was innocent since it made her look better? Really weird. I don't get why Lottie seems so adament on her though, like almost overly suspicious.

I'm also not feeling great about Nog, but it seems kind of low to lynch him if he won't be around toDay.

Maybe I'll go make a list or something...

x'ed with Shasta

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

A variant on Sally's Hestia-plan that might work better and be less wasteful of innocent lives.....we could wait until either Seer actually dreams of something that confirms that they are true or false, and they could then tell us. If it is Hestia, s/he would be able to confirm if the other Seer is true or false, without naming them. If the other Seer, Hestia would then know if s/he were true or false. Then the protection racket with the Ranger/Hunter-Guardian could kick in...does that sound better?

The Hestia matter is a vexing one. I can see the attraction of Sally's plan, but others have noted some variables that cause problems.
Lalaith's idea does sound better, but carries the risk of both Seers being vulnerable to wolves until one of them gets a dream they can confirm is valid.

In other news, I thought it strange how tum was seemingly so fixated on Nog the first Day. Since he started getting suspected (and I commented on her repeatedly "agreeing" with him), she's dropped that altogether and even voted for him last Night. It rather reminds me of the way she said Mac was the most suspicious and then dropped that, only in reverse.

[A Little Green]

Eurgh. I just realised it's getting late again and I feel very clueless. I'd love to look at Shasta but I don't think I have the time. So - I'm kind of in trouble. About who to lynch, I mean. I don't think I'll make a full list, but just quickly:

I'm disinclined to believe the wolves are among the following nine:
Lottie
Nerwen
Foley
Lalaith
Phantom
and, a bit more arguably,
Wilwa
Kath
Mira
Sally
(Though given my usual accuracy in things like this, I bet one of them is a wolf anyway. )

Which would leave four (or arguably three) wolves among the following seven:
Zil
Nienna
autume
Rikae
Shasta
Mac
Nog

Now obviously I will not vote for any of the first list. Of the second then. I could go for someone I have no idea about and who could just as well be a wolf ie. Zil, Nienna, Rikae or Shasta. (Not too keen on that since I have no arguments whatsoever against any of them - just not for them, either.) Or I could do the easy thing and vote for autume, who has done a lot of fishy stuff - but I'm not very keen on that either since pretty much all of that could be explained by her simply not getting the hang of the game quite yet. Or I could vote for one of the confusing two that I have arguments both for and against, ie. Nog or Mac. (And, surprise surprise, I'm not keen on that - especially since neither has really been around toDay.)


EDIT: x-ed with Inzil

[Macalaure]

I'm getting uneasy about Wilwa, but I can't put my finger on why. I need to take a closer look at what she said when I get to it. Same with Inzil. And Nienna.

Seems like Sally's plan won't make the cut. Phew.
Also, I doubt a wolf (other than a very bold one) would bring forth such a plan, so Sally is most likely innocent or a non-furry lover.

Originally Posted by phantom

Now that we're three days into the game I imagine I'll normalize a bit (as far as suspecting people)

*is waiting for that to happen*

Not sure what to think about all that stuff around Autume. Have to make up my mind again. I just hope I won't have to go "who wants to vote for someone else than this poor kid?" three Days in a row...

So, yeah, I've got some work cut out for me, I guess.

[the phantom]

Reading and thinking...

Kath and Nienna are lying low (not neccessarily intentionally, but they are). I'd say there's a pelt between the two of them, due largely to the fact that I'm not seeing fur in many other places.

Inzil and Sally have not been as quiet as far as posting goes, but they've made about the same level of impression on me (before just recently). I'm not a fan of Sally's plan, and wonder if she simply wanted to know where the Seer was and wanted the Rangers to be occupied protecting the Seer so that she'd be free to kill who she wished at night. Possible Wolf there.

Nog has been different because he's both busy and fabricating. Most likely furry.

Lalaith is... Lalaith. Someone said earlier she's either innocent or a very smooth WW. Well- yeah. I've been a WW with her before. She's very smooth. I wouldn't try her first, but at the end as a desperate shot, I'd try her.

Of those that I did not name, it's probable there's a Wolf there, very possibly two, but either I don't suspect them at all or I have a reason to believe they may have a particular role and thus I don't feel comfortable putting them up for lynching at this time.

(edit: Oh, be quiet Mac, I'm busy with other stuff at the same time here. You are so needy.)

[Nienna]

Rikae - 2.5 hours of analysis later.

29 – Mostly banter, doesn’t think much of Boro’s Zeus comment
32 – Jokes at being a wolf
69 – First post of content, explains to Foley that we don’t always need to be serious to be useful, mentions how another role will be revealed when Poseidon comes back
76 – explanation and call for Mod-god interference about lovers and their goals
80 – She mentions that the false seer can lead the village astray with false information and that that is worse than baddies being able to narrow down their potential-seer list
82 – Mentions lovers or anyone trying to save wolves can happen especially in a game like this. Also reiterates how moot the point about Romeo-Juliet lovers is concerning what happens when a partner dies
83 – Both seers are probably leaving trails
88 – Admits that she may misread seer/false seer hints
90 – Nerwen’s “Hades” comment could be leaving hints at Persephone but could just as easily be something else
100 – Converses with Phantom about his lovers talk, mentions how his way can create a suspect where there may actually be no grounds as people’s playing styles vary so much
104 – Mentions how there isn’t generally any reason for the false seer to keep quiet though maybe there is in some circumstances
108 – Thinks Nog’s idea about Seers revealing is interesting but that if there is a false reveal it may tie up a ranger
111 – Says it’s up to individuals to play as they want to. The wolves also get the same information that the village gets and there is no reason to suppose they will miss seer-hints
121 – Didn’t think that Nerwen was trying to get Persephone to pick her and that maybe Mac was trying to confuse Persephone into picking her
128 – Mentions that joking banter may contain hints too Interesting with her own joking banter which could be wolvish – see later as well
133 – Mentions that Steve joking about Dionysus could just be him having too much to drink
137 – Is most suspicious of those seeing hints everywhere than those supposedly leaving hints
142 – Didn’t know Steve’s age and thinks we can just lynch the cursed after they are turned
145 – If Steve is the cursed then he helped the village without knowing it because the wolves wouldn’t pick him now anyway
158 – On Boro’s Zeus-hints: Phantom started it, and Lal kept it going – wonders about Phantom’s intentions in that were
179 – “allied to Zeus” could mean wolf’s lover but she doesn’t think that’s what Boro meant
194 – Doesn’t think that Mac is a lover just because he was suspicious of Boro being a lover
198 – Thinks because the narration will say when the cursed is turned there is no reason to lynch Steve now. Doesn’t want to vote BG because she hasn’t really shown she’s a wolf but she may vote for her because of not participating. Other suspects include Nerwen (though she thinks her suspicion might be based on IC banter and nothing else), Phantom but he hasn’t explained himself and it would be a throwaway, and Wilwa for trying to stir up suspicion about Boro but still keeping her hands clean (also thinks that would be a throwaway)
213 – Admits it must be frustrating for BG but says she has to participate more or why bother. Won’t vote BG (too harsh) or Steve (hasn’t had time to explain himself). Votes Phantom because it should happen more on Day Ones. This doesn’t actually bother me at all… she suspected Phantom a little bit and it seems like as reasonable for a Day One vote as any other
223 – Says she always defends Mac even when they aren’t on the same side

Day 2

334 – Thinks Boro must have coupled his Seer-hints with correct suspicion (accidental or not) as he was killed. Boro also could have coupled Seer and Hunter hints so maybe he didn’t point to a baddie at all and the wolves called his bluff… or he could be the false seer
336 – Mentions it’s weird that Nerwen argued her and Mac weren’t wolf-on-wolf when that’s not even what Nog said
345 – Torn about Mac’s wording about “frustrating to be alone”… chalks it up to second language
350 – Says she knows what Phantom is up to and is more concerned about Nerwen. Doesn’t like people picking on her “sweetie” so much, calls him sweetie again in an edit to the post interesting use of pet names which as I’ve mentioned I don’t believe I’ve seen before…maybe her being playful, maybe not
352 – Now wondering where all the Steve-is-not-the-cursed stuff is coming from, leaning toward Phantom being Zeus and that being what Boro dreamed
354 – Still thinks Phantom is Zeus but not that he should be lynched, it’s debatable anyway
378 – After re-reading Mac’s “frustrating” comment she is pretty sure it is because of English being his second language
412 – Explains that Nerwen was probably talking about Hades the place not the person
467 – Wants to look at the Inzil/Tum stuff and Tum’s voting of BG after finding her innocent
474 – Doesn’t buy Tum being a wolf, doesn’t buy Mac being a wolf, doesn’t buy Steve being a wolf. Votes herself saying that she is the “wolviest wolf that ever howled at the moon” This is the second time she joked at being a wolf and on Day Two when voting matters a little more
485 – More fake (?) lover banter with Mac
526 – Doesn’t like the last minute scrambling for a random lynch candidate
529 – Thinks Mac is behind the lynch-someone-not-Steve business so now she wonders if maybe it would be wise to lynch him

Day 3

593 – Has some problems with Lottie’s Tum-analysis, doesn’t think Sally’s Hestia plan is best, she doesn’t approve of bandwagons
602 – Doesn’t want to get lynched with chat-speak
608 – Sadly doesn’t have any assassination power

Conclusions: Generally she has been very helpful and even reprimanding to the village where it is needed. She's been logical and consistent. The only thing that worries me a tiny bit is her joking about being a wolf. I don’t think she is a wolf but it is interesting. She is also very flippant about her own lynching which leads me to think that maybe she doesn’t have one of the more important roles... maybe a lover (with all the lover banter) which could mean she can have assassination powers later.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Reading and thinking...

Kath and Nienna are lying low (not neccessarily intentionally, but they are). I'd say there's a pelt between the two of them, due largely to the fact that I'm not seeing fur in many other places.

Phantom, your logic fails me. You think that Kath or I is a wolf just because you can't see fur elsewhere? That's lovely.

[the phantom]

Someone's got to be a WW, Nienna. If it's not you, then you'll have to give me a chance to get more comfortable with you before I'm going to start feeling that (talk more, argue, etc). Come on now- you know how the whole submarine thing works. If I'm not mistaking it was after WW III that I swore that if I could help it I was not going to ever again lose a game due to allowing WWs to slip by via being extra quiet. If I'm going to be beaten I prefer it to be out loud and straight up. In other words, not the Frodo method.

[A Little Green]

I want to go to sleep, but I also want to vote reasonably. Unfortunately, it's kind of hard to fit those two together as I'm really really clueless right now. Could someone please do something blatantly wolvish? Like, now?

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Someone's got to be a WW, Nienna. If it's not you, then you'll have to give me a chance to get more comfortable with you before I'm going to start feeling that (talk more, argue, etc). Come on now- you know how the whole submarine thing works. If I'm not mistaking it was after WW III that I swore that if I could help it I was not going to ever again lose a game due to allowing WWs to slip by via being extra quiet. If I'm going to be beaten I prefer it to be out loud and straight up. In other words, not the Frodo method.

I understand that submarines are bad. I apologize for being one thus far. I have time now and so here I am talking. I'm sure arguing will come up as well.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm not a fan of Sally's plan, and wonder if she simply wanted to know where the Seer was and wanted the Rangers to be occupied protecting the Seer so that she'd be free to kill who she wished at night. Possible Wolf there.

I wonder whether Sallywolf would have been so bold, though. She had to have known it probably wouldn't be that warmly received, and subjected to some scrutiny.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Nog has been different because he's both busy and fabricating. Most likely furry.

I'm quite all right with lynching Nog toDay. Or Tum. Still.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Lalaith is... Lalaith. Someone said earlier she's either innocent or a very smooth WW. Well- yeah. I've been a WW with her before. She's very smooth. I wouldn't try her first, but at the end as a desperate shot, I'd try her.

I know she can be a highly effective wolf who doesn't tend to attract suspicion, but I'm not getting much in the way of furry vibes from her at the moment.

x/d with Greenie and Nienna

[wilwarin538]

So....I took a nap. That's why it took me so long to come back. *is exhausted* But here's the list I said I would make:


I'm ok with the following people

Lalaith
Nerwen
Rikae
Mac
Sallycakes
Greenie

Meh, neutral

Kath: I liked her post yesterday cause I appreciated her effort, but I would like more from her before I form a realy oppinion
Nienna: just not enough to go on from what I can see, still don't get why people wanted to lynch her, unless I missed something
Inzil: just hasn't stood out for me
Mira: still not too much from her
Phantom
Folwren

I'm uneasy about

Tum: because of some of the things she's been saying it just seems very odd, but I'm not going to push it as much as some people cause this just seems like it could turn into a repeat of yesterDay and the Day before
Lottie: only because of how much effort she's putting into going after Tum, besides that I don't feel strongly about her either way
Shasta: purely a gut thing I'll admit, I'll need to look at his posts more
Nog


So I'm not overly suspicious about anyone but I'd be comfortable voting for anyone in my last category, and could possibly be persuaded to vote for some of the ones in the middle one. Hopefully tonight when I need to decide I'll have narrowed it down more.

x'ed with a couple

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sorry for not posting earlier. I'm dealing with a lot of crap at the moment.

In any case, I agree with those who say Lottie's mega-post is one that was virtually unreadable. Summaries, please.

Re - Nog and the question he asked of me yesterday: when I said that your case on Nerwen was double-, triple-, and quadruple-bluffing, I meant that it relied on 'would a wolf have done this, or would a wolf not have done this knowing we'd think they did, or...?' That's basically all it is, and I don't see anything else supporting it.

Re - Sally's plan: the main point against it is the revenge-kills, as Rikae pointed out. For that reason alone I'd be against it.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Inzil

I'm quite all right with lynching Nog toDay. Or Tum. Still.

I might consider Nog after all, though he's absent which makes me feel kind of bad about it. And I'm not all that convinced about his furriness - he has certainly done stuff that points to that direction, but he has also done stuff that points to the exact opposite. So I don't know.

As for autume - I still think the numerous wolvish parts of her behaviour might be due to some misunderstanding concerning the nature of the game. She has made it clear, many times in different situations, that her main goal is to not look wolvish (as opposed to finding wolves). I can sort of understand that, I remember subconsciously thinking that way myself as a new player (which might be partly due to the fact that I played my two first games as a wolf and the habit kind of stuck, though). Now I don't know autume's WW history at all, I've never played with her, so I can't compare the two cases. But the thing is, I'm not convinced a furry autume would be so open about this. But then again, all the inconsistencies in her behaviour (like, about Mac and Nog for example, I think Inzil has covered these pretty effectively) would point more to the furry side... Heck if I know, now I just caused myself a headache. Clearly I shouldn't get that understanding about her motives, because if I only apply cold logic I'm leaning towards thinking she's a wolf. But I also have this nagging feeling that she'll be toDay's easy bandwagon everyone can jump on without racking their brains too much.


EDIT: x-ed with Wilwa and Shasta (to the latter: *hug*)

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Clearly I shouldn't get that understanding about her motives, because if I only apply cold logic I'm leaning towards thinking she's a wolf. But I also have this nagging feeling that she'll be toDay's easy bandwagon everyone can jump on without racking their brains too much.

This very clearly sums up how I feel about her. I get why she looks so bad, but it could so easily become a repeat of BG and Eonwe.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I wonder whether Sallywolf would have been so bold, though. She had to have known it probably wouldn't be that warmly received, and subjected to some scrutiny.

Even though you could potentially say that she knew we'd react that way and said it all to make herself look innocent, I do agree, I think it makes her look rather good.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Could someone please do something blatantly wolvish? Like, now?

*growls like the Wereduckling*

[Macalaure]

A list to sort my thoughts before I go analyzin'.

Pretty confident is innocent
Greenie (While my wolf-spotting is shaky, my innocent-spotting is usually good, which is why I really don't like to only have one person in here.)

Probably innocent, but there's that nagging feeling
Lalaith (As phantom said, smooth. I remember Lalaith-wolf to be more nervous. Really not worried at the moment.)
Rikae (The mistress of the nagging feeling.)
Nog (He's wrong with such persistence that I doubt he's evil. As a wolf, once you realize that your approach is irritating everyone, you alter your ways.)
phantom (My problem is, that I've never played against a phantom wolf. I don't see anything suspicious, but I'm not sure what to look for.)
Sally (Seer plan too risky for a wolf. Possible lover, though.)

Not really sure where to put
Loslote (While I must've missed what tp saw yesterDay, her defense did look innocent.)
Nerwen (I don't see anything suspicious, but every time I put Nerwen higher than this, I regret it.)
Autume (Not sure what the stuff around her is about, but I'll trust people that there's something. I'll see for myself eventually.)

Varying degrees of submarinity
Kath (Really quiet. Can't tell anything.)
Mira (Really quiet. Can't tell anything.)
Nienna (Picking up some pace at last. Will be interesting to see.)
Folwren (Innocent-looking, but there's so to go at that she could easily be a quiet wolf.)
Shasta (He could go in the category above, too. Really uncertain here.)

Uneasiness that has to be checked out
Wilwa (Can't tell what it is, but I'll find out.)
Inzil (same)

I was hoping that I forgot a suspicious one somewhere. This list contains too many question marks for Day3.

[satansaloser2005]

My top suspects are as follows....


Nog: He's been too twitchy and weird (without quoting any posts because there's so many to choose from) and generally not innocent Nog-ish.

Tum: Her "innocent lynches are bad, but I like them" attitude, among other things, makes me think she's a floundering wolf cub or possibly an evil lover. (Actually I really like that theory. I hope to look at it more closely after dinner.)

Foley: I'll have to find the post again, but at some point she tells us not to lynch phantom because she thinks he's possibly a good gifted. I don't see why a goodie would do that, unless Phantom was under extreme pressure to be lynched (which he wasn't at the time). Other than that standing out, though, I'm unsure of her, so I'll try to look at her later tonight as well.

Lottie: She makes no sense, like at all. Maybe Tum's lover? *twitches* I should not have these kind of thoughts as I'm leaving. It's just not fair. *harrumphs*


Leaving for said dinner now, so I'll be back when I can and will try to post more.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Sally

Lottie: She makes no sense, like at all. Maybe Tum's lover? *twitches*

I doubt that. It would be really really bold for a lover to so persistently push for the lynch of her partner. Needlessly bold, I'd say, for I see no particular gain. Sure, some suspicion every now and then is not a bad tactic at all, but to take it to such a level would be foolish.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I doubt that. It would be really really bold for a lover to so persistently push for the lynch of her partner. Needlessly bold, I'd say, for I see no particular gain. Sure, some suspicion every now and then is not a bad tactic at all, but to take it to such a level would be foolish.

Oh. My. Goodness. I did not mean what I said there. *headdesks* I'd been thinking earlier that Tum could be an evil lover, but putting her with Lottie makes no sense. Please excuse my complete lapse of brain cells.

I'll decide what I actually meant when I return, hopefully soon.

[Rikae]

Ok, now Mac is making me uneasy. All that stuff in the post he just made, plus similar stuff in an earlier post toDay (if anyone doesn't know what I mean, just read his post again) can't possibly be well intentioned or sincere. If what it suggests were true, there wouldn't be a good reason for him to do it; it seems instead like an attempt to tie up the rangers or prepare for a false reveal. Very, very fishy.

EDIT: X'd with everyone since Mac.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

it seems instead like an attempt to tie up the rangers or prepare for a false reveal.

Not sure what you're seeing, but rest assured that there are no false reveals intended. In fact, there are no reveals intended at all anytime soon, so I'm really kind of puzzled here. Not that there would be anything to reveal anyway. Dare to be plainer?

[the phantom]

I still don't get why people (Mac, Wilwa, Inzil, maybe others) think Sally's plan makes her look innocent. Let me ask you- what's the NUMBER ONE thing on the minds of the WWs after last night? The pair of Rangers in the village.

So I can guarantee you that the WWs, the moment they started this day, were thinking of ways to avoid a repeat of last night. The best way to do that? Assign the Rangers to protect a particular person. It's so Wolfish.

And I don't like her list either. And I don't like the fact that her plan involves waiting a day to lynch Nog. A possible theory- coming into the day he may have been written off by his partners perhaps as a lost cause? But they figure if they can hold onto him for one extra day and have a wrong lynch today then it won't be so bad to throw him under the bus? I just don't like it at all. The whole thing smells fishy.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Wilwa

*growls like the Wereduckling*

Aww! But I can't push for the lynch of anyone half so cute!

Whoa. It's late, and I have a relatively early start tomorrow - in other words, I need to vote and be off to bed. That is very sad since I fear whatever I decide turns out to be the exact wrong thing to do. Oh well, I suppose I'll just have to live with that. It's between Mac, Nog and autume for me toDay I think, and of those two I think I'll go for

++ Nogrod

For a couple of reasons.
1) He has acted unreasonably in ways that point to furriness.
2) His death would shed light on other people's roles (I'm thinking Mac, Lottie, Sally, and possibly Nerwen and pantom too).
3) My logic is suspicious of Mac and autume while my gut isn't, with Nog both are suspicious of him albeit to a slightly lesser extent. Still, he's my best bet toDay.

Good night!

[Lalaith]

This game is a right old bugger. You look at players and posts, you spot something that might be patterns and alliances, and then you think, but there are so many innocent alliances too, it might not be a sign of evil. You remember how easy it is to mistake a gifted for a wolf, and then remember that every blessed person is a gifted. Oh lawks.

Ok, list time again.
Phantom – full of beans today, and getting *very* cocky. Trusts Mac. Believes Lottie is innocent. His suspect list is interesting but I don’t get what he says about why he's putting Kath at the top of it...I agree she can be a lethal quiet wolf but if that’s what he means he should say so.

Nog I’ve already harped on about my concerns here. I would probably vote for him on the strength of that comment of his, (given my lack of solid suspects) were it not for the fact he is not here to explain himself and it seems unsporting.

Tum – I’ve already given my opinion on her earlier. My reservations about voting for her are similar to those voiced by Greenie and Wilwa.

Loslote – that great long analysis. It seems to be trying to prove that Tum agrees with what everybody else says...and the impression it gives me is that it could be the kind of analysis a wolf might do on someone the pack had decided might make a good lynch for the Day... something non-committal that others could pick over...she is another possible vote for me today but that in itself annoys me because I think it so unlikely that she and Nogrod are *both* wolves.

Nerwen is out to get Nogrod today. Well fair enough, there’s enough rope to hang him, but I’m surprised she hasn’t picked up on my point which does look quite bad for him.

Mac – my problem with him remains his callous attitude to Nerwen yesterday. Too callous for an innocent, arguably....but Today he has once more been generally sensible and incisive.

Sally – I think that despite flaws her Hestia plan was inspired from a genuine desire to help; not the sort of thing a wolf would come up with I think. I do see Phantom's point about tying up the Rangers but still, if you were a wolf, why would you encourage the survival of a Seer?

Greenie – again trying to be fair and even-handed. Her suspicions and also her reservations about Tum are more or less the same as mine.

Wilwa – not as incisive or detailed as Greenie as yet today but the same sense of trying to play fair which looks good in my book.

Nienna – as so many have said, giving an impression of ‘lying low’. However, she does do a thorough analysis of Rikae and finds her consistent and logical. I personally look at Rikae and see chutzpah and erratic brilliance, but ok, if you say so...

Rikae – as I said yesterday, I never can see past the chutzpah with her so I’ll leave that to others.

Zil – still feels ok - has opinions, not afraid to express them, and what he is saying seems to make sense to me.

Shasta – very brief, not enough to go on.

Not posted yet today? (correct me if I’m wrong)
Kath, Mira, Folwren. (Btw - Where IS Kath? I’m on the same time zone as her and it’s bedtime...tsk...dirty stop-out...)
Have I left anyone out? I need to decide, as I need to go to bed soon...