Survivor: The Second Age

[Diamond18]

Ang, you know Eomer balks at the idea of trading votes, etc., he's said so before. I think you'll be more likely to save Celeborn by joining me in voting for Fangorn/Treebeard than getting Eomer to help you evict Amandil.

[Anguirel]

Oh, but Eomer will make an exception for meee, I'm sure. We're both tall, dark Gaels...

Your suggestion is however noted as a last resort.

For the moment I exhort supporters of Celeborn to join in voting Amandil to get fresher blood flowing in the veins of the Elendili.

Remember what I said before. Anarion's a younger son.

He needs to be given space to exercise his folkloric advantage...out with his grandfather!

[Firefoot]

I think it's finally time for Celeborn to go. He's not a particularly interesting character and lives perpetually in the shadow of Galadriel. I can't remember anything that he did by himself of his own volition without her. He seems rather detached from most proceedings. It makes one wonder just what he did after Galadriel passed into the West. He doesn't seem terribly capable of much on his own.

++Celeborn

[Anguirel]

The curse of this game is that you spend ages carefully refuting arguments and people just slip by and repeat the same old ones...which is why I post so much on these threads...

[Firefoot]

Haha, sorry. Speaking for myself, anyway, I usually pick someone off the list who I want to go, generally based more off my personal dislikes than any particular reasoning, and then come up with some reasoning... except several times arguments have already been stated. I promise I did read your post though.

[Lalaith]

Every time the cameras come to the Line of Luthien Tribe, Amandil's not even there. He's down in the bay, trying to build yet another funny little ship. He's just yearning to leave, you can see it in his eyes, poor man. Let him leave this Hither Shore, or at least try.

++AMANDIL

[Celuien]

Must...rescue...Celeborn.

++AMANDIL

Amandil has no interest in being here. His task is to sail into the West and chat with the Valar (if they'll let him).

Let's add some more to this...

I have no problem with his trip. In fact, I think it was a noble effort. But ill-advised. I can't come up with any better solution if he wanted to get Numenor back in the Valar's good graces, but it wouldn't do any good for the real problem, which was Sauron working on Ar-Pharazon and Ar-Pharazon's pride. Probably should have just tried to help the remaining Faithful in Numenor and left for Middle-earth with Elendil and Co.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Who marshalled Lorien's forces? Who provided justification for the pair being there in the first place? For without Celeborn Galadriel had no de jure right to lord it over a Sindar/Silvan people

You are seriously suggesting that they would have turned their noses up at Galadriel without Celeborn being there? Don't make me laugh.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Celeborn too gave crucial advice, in a quiet, unflashy way.

Celeborn gave advice that any Tom, Dick or Aelfwine could have given. Helpful he may have been, but that does not an Elf the wisest make. His claims were over-inflated and thus he is a fraud.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Quite simply, boats-the single most vital gift for the Fellowship at that moment.

Again, helpful but hardly qualifying him as the greatest giver of gifts. Just ask Gimli who gave the better pressies out of the two. Once again, his claim is over-stated.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

It was won the moment Celeborn's army made the vital junction with Thranduil's-the Orcs, without Nazgul to lead them, were doomed thereafter.

Pure speculation. Had Galadriel not torn down the walls, the battle would have been prolonged and bloody. And, in any event, had others not gone to the effort of destroying the Ring, Celeborn wouldn't have stood a chance, even with the help of his missus.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

But my real problem with the case against Celeborn is not that it is false or illogical, but that it is trite and boring.

Did it occur to you that this may be because he is so dull that there is very little else to say about him?

And Celeborn hardly qualifies as an underdog with this audience of Elfophiles ...

[Elu Ancalime]

...And I return. To find Elrond gone (yay) and Suaron also (???). Amandil you say? For all we know Amandil could have made the difference between the nine ships of Elendil escaping or the Dunedain and the Hope for the West being swallowed into a toilet bowel.

++Celeborn

In defense of Amandil

EDIT: Right, Diamond18. So: Celeborn, although he may have seemed like Galadriel's shadow, really wanted her to get more attention. That way, he could just sit back and eat lembas while she did all the hard work (cooking, cleaning, and saving Lorien and the War)
________
Honda vf700f

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Elu Ancalime

...And I return. To find Elrond gone (yay) and Suaron also (???). Amandil you say? For all we know Amandil could have made the difference between the nine ships of Elendil escaping or the Dunedain and the Hope for the West being swallowed into a toilet bowel.

Amandil is a cissy.

[Diamond18]

Form said that voting for one character to protect another will only work if you come up with an additional reason to vote for the character you're voting for. I.E. if you vote for Celeborn to save Amandil, Elu, you need to state an additional case against Celeborn, rather than just a defense of Amandil.

Originally Posted by Celuien

Amandil is a cissy.

Right, because it's so cissy to throw yourself on the mercy of the gods, who've threatened to kill you if you show your grubby human face on their shores. A'yep.

[Anguirel]

Celuien, how could I forget? Fight fire with fire...

Amandil's a sailor, which casts grave doubts on his masculinity.

His family are all useless, except Anarion.

He doesn't have any decent swords.

His title is stupid. Andunie? Sounds like a laxative.

And Amandil sounds like Amanda. Girly. Ha. Nyah.

Imagine Amandil talking to his great-great-great-children:

"So, Elendil cut down Sauron, Isildur nicked the ring, and you..."

"I got drowned." Loser!

He's obviously suicidal. He had no hope of getting to Valinor. He can't want to be on this show. Let's give him what he wants...

There. I've now uttered nine Sauce-worthy idiocies, er, I mean, cogent arguments.

Let's see if they bring home the votes...

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Did it occur to you that this may be because he is so dull that there is very little else to say about him?

All of the above was wilful stupidity and misinterpretation and repetition ad nauseam and I disdain to reply to it. But this, I will address.

Saucie, earlier on you defended Ohtar, who has about one line of description in Canon. Your condemnation of Elrond was based on the fact that this shouldn't be about patting high-profile Tolkien characters on the back endlessly. This proves that you lack-as has been shown so often before-a grain of consistency.

As it happens, Celeborn is in my view one of those rare characters who is too cool to interfere with the plot in some flashy manner, but whose qualities on an unbiased reading are clear.

To use an RPG analogy, he's an extremely well-written cameo appearance...

But back to Amandil.

Elu says he could have preserved the Hope for the West by reaching the Valar. Nonsense, old chap, you're deluding yourself. We ought to tell Anarion

Full fathom five thy (grand)father lies
Those are pearls that were his eyes

It's fifty miles from Aberdour, and fifty fathoms deep...drown'd? Indeed he is!

But anyway...the Dunedain weren't, as far as I can tell, the hope for the West. They spelt doom to its native inhabitants whom they subjugated and oppressed with unrightful lordships. They caused endless trouble with their Ring-banditry. If Anarion encouraged their proto-colonialism, he should be punished...

[lord of dor-lomin]

+ +Fangorn
An ent as a Survivor champ? No way. They just aren't active enough in events. They don't endlessly oppose evil. They don't send representatives to councils. They just hang out in the woods. Most of them turn into trees, and even the ents that stay "entish" lead the same sort of active life and are as interesting and charming as a pile of firewood.

I mean, honestly, Treebeard said he spent large quantities of time simply "breathing"! Can we really reward someone who displays this level of absolute apathy and laziness in life?

As far as I can tell, Treebeard's primary accomplishment during the 2nd Age was staying alive, and that was probably a struggle. I'm sure there were times where he took so long to raise his bowl of food to his mouth that he had almost shrivelled up by the time it arrived.

[Formendacil]

Okay, I never intended to leave this this late! I just… forgot. I don’t sleep in until 3:30!

Anyway, to analyze the votes:

Originally Posted by Diamond

I may retract this later, depending on whichever way my mood is violently swinging, but I'd like to start off today with a vote for:

+ + Fangorn

A: Because I want revenge for the ousting of Fimbrethil, and all the "ooh poor lovelorn Treebeard, left by a coldhearted woman" arguments that did said ousting.

B: Because he never really did anything interesting, besides destroying Isengard. Which was, okay, pretty cool, but it was one thing done in a vastly long lifetime. Most of the time he just stood around harooming and writing imitations of Elven poetry.

COUNTED for reason B: direct reference to Fangorn’s long life, lack of prominent happenings, use of poetry, and “harooming”.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

++CELEBRIANp

for being such a neglectful wife and mother! She's really just like that Fimbrethil, actually, only that she had these Orc-inflicted wounds for an excuse. Valid perhaps, but that's not the point!

Besides, Elrond needs someone to console him.

COUNTED- for direct reference to her ork wounds and subsequent abandonment of Middle-Earth.

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Which leads me to direct my gaze on Celeborn once more.

Now, the hen-pecked husband thing does elicit some sympathy from me for him. But, really, he was supposed to be the wisest Elf in Middle-earth during the Third Age. If that was the case, then surely he could have stood up for himself a bit better.

And what did he actually achieve?

In the Second and Third Ages, he ruled over Lothlorien with Galadriel. He is said to be Lord of that realm. Yet it is clear who wore the trousers in that relationship. It was primarily Galadriel's power, and the power of her Ring, which maintained Lorien's defences. And it was she who, in reality, ruled there.

He is said to have been the wisest of all Elves. Yet, even a cursory glance at the Lothlorien chapters of LotR will reveal that Galadriel was by far the wiser of the two.

He is said to have been the greatest giver of gifts. Yet it was Galadriel who bestowed the most useful gifts on the Fellowship.

He commanded the army that conquered Dol Guldur. Yet it was Galadriel who destroyed its walls, thus rendering its defences ineffective.

Let's face it, Celeborn would have been nothing without Galadriel. And all that he did achieve relied heavily on her. As they are now in different tribes, this is becoming painfully and embarassingly apparent on the show. For trying to gain fame, notoriety and power through his wife's endeavours and not through his own efforts, I vote:

+ + CELEBORN

COUNTED- for a complete, if biased, recounting of Celeborn’s biography and relationship to Galadriel.

Originally Posted by Tuor of Gondolin

+ + Galadriel
Let's face it, even for Middle-earth elves she's downright scary and daunting. And she probably goes on endlessly about the good old days in Aman, how she was considered the cat's meow (not Beruthiel's lot) by the valar, how she wouldn't let Feanor have any strands of her hair, yadda, yadda, yadda. And if she goes it could unleash the brilliant leader (?????) inside Celeborn.

COUNTED- albeit reluctantly. “For Middle-Earth Elves she’s downright scary” doesn’t seem backed by Tolkien- although it’s possible to build a case. “Going on endless about Aman and the Cat’s Meow” seems completely count to the portrait of Galadriel painted by Tolkien, but she does long for it in “Farewell to Lórien”. Queen Berúthiel is completely inadmissible- it does not reference Galadriel at all. Galadriel never goes on about Fëanor and her hair- that we are shown- nor is there a case for her leaving making a difference with Celeborn.

Again, counted reluctantly, on the tenuous basis of the first two lines.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

++AMANDIL has had his time, and lasted quite as long as he would wish-let him depart with honour and give his grandson, the estimable younger son Anarion of Gondor, opportunity to flourish as a King.

Ermm…

Anguirel, your vote is NOT COUNTED,

For reason that “He has had his time” is nonsensical in a game that takes characters from across the generations, and that anything to do with Anárion has naught to do with Amandail.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I think it's finally time for Celeborn to go. He's not a particularly interesting character and lives perpetually in the shadow of Galadriel. I can't remember anything that he did by himself of his own volition without her. He seems rather detached from most proceedings. It makes one wonder just what he did after Galadriel passed into the West. He doesn't seem terribly capable of much on his own.

++Celeborn

COUNTED- on the basis that Celeborn IS, in Tolkien’s works, pretty much always mentioned in conjunction with his wife Galadriel.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Every time the cameras come to the Line of Luthien Tribe, Amandil's not even there. He's down in the bay, trying to build yet another funny little ship. He's just yearning to leave, you can see it in his eyes, poor man. Let him leave this Hither Shore, or at least try.

++AMANDIL

COUNTED- on the basis that Amandil WAS a sailor, and he DID try to leave “this Hither Shore”.

Originally Posted by Celuien

++AMANDIL

Amandil has no interest in being here. His task is to sail into the West and chat with the Valar (if they'll let him).

Let's add some more to this...

I have no problem with his trip. In fact, I think it was a noble effort. But ill-advised. I can't come up with any better solution if he wanted to get Numenor back in the Valar's good graces, but it wouldn't do any good for the real problem, which was Sauron working on Ar-Pharazon and Ar-Pharazon's pride. Probably should have just tried to help the remaining Faithful in Numenor and left for Middle-earth with Elendil and Co.

Direct references to Amandil’s attempted journey to Valinor. Perhaps not a reason for leaving a game, but used in that context.

COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Elu Ancalime

...And I return. To find Elrond gone (yay) and Suaron also (???). Amandil you say? For all we know Amandil could have made the difference between the nine ships of Elendil escaping or the Dunedain and the Hope for the West being swallowed into a toilet bowel.

++Celeborn

In defense of Amandil

EDIT: Right, Diamond18. So: Celeborn, although he may have seemed like Galadriel's shadow, really wanted her to get more attention. That way, he could just sit back and eat lembas while she did all the hard work (cooking, cleaning, and saving Lorien and the War)

Lots of Tolkien referenced here… but nothing to do with Celeborn, except some speculations that don’t seem to have a grounding in anything Tolkien wrote. NOT COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Amandil's a sailor, which casts grave doubts on his masculinity.

His family are all useless, except Anarion.

He doesn't have any decent swords.

His title is stupid. Andunie? Sounds like a laxative.

And Amandil sounds like Amanda. Girly. Ha. Nyah.

Imagine Amandil talking to his great-great-great-children:

"So, Elendil cut down Sauron, Isildur nicked the ring, and you..."

"I got drowned." Loser!

He's obviously suicidal. He had no hope of getting to Valinor. He can't want to be on this show. Let's give him what he wants...

Several biased, somewhat silly, but still Tolkien-grounded arguments. Anguirel’s vote is now COUNTED (see up).

Originally Posted by lord of dor lomin

+ +Fangorn
An ent as a Survivor champ? No way. They just aren't active enough in events. They don't endlessly oppose evil. They don't send representatives to councils. They just hang out in the woods. Most of them turn into trees, and even the ents that stay "entish" lead the same sort of active life and are as interesting and charming as a pile of firewood.

I mean, honestly, Treebeard said he spent large quantities of time simply "breathing"! Can we really reward someone who displays this level of absolute apathy and laziness in life?

As far as I can tell, Treebeard's primary accomplishment during the 2nd Age was staying alive, and that was probably a struggle. I'm sure there were times where he took so long to raise his bowl of food to his mouth that he had almost shrivelled up by the time it arrived.

Several references to general Entish traits, and a direct reference to Treebeards enjoyment of “just breathing”.

COUNTED.

There we are. The Day is done. Any votes between this and the offical count post will be accounted with tomorrow’s total.

[Formendacil]

The sixteenth day of voting was not as noisy as some previously, suffering from "the Weekend Syndrome". The voting fell as follows:

Celebrían: I
Galadriel: I

Fangorn: II
Celeborn: II

Amandil: III

Had Lhuna stuck to her guns, and voted Celeborn, he'd have been gone in a double-lynching. However, she didn't, and we also didn't have an army of anti-Celeborn 'Downers ride in on Pink Oliphaunts, so he survives another day. 'Tis Amandil who must "sail west".

HOUSEKEEPING:

This next day should be very close to 24 hours in duration. If that isn't possible, I'll let it change on the longer side.

Those remaining:

Tribe of the Line of Lúthien:
Anárion
Elros Tar-Minyatur
Tar-Míriel

Tribe of the "Endorians":
Celeborn
Círdan
Celebrían
Narvi
Fangorn

Tribe of the Rest:
The Witch-king
Celebrimbor
Ohtar
Galadriel

Day 17 begins now. Vote away!

[Celuien]

++OHTAR

Of the Lord of the Rings Code:

Obviously, by naming this character Ohtar, Tolkien was trying to tell us that Ohtar's role could be filled by any other character. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that substituing an 'e' for the 'a' in his name and reversing the h with the t changes Ohtar to Other. The e to a substitution is the correct interpretation since the 'a' is the second vowel in Othar and e is the second vowel in the alphabet.

If that doesn't convince you, consider the anagram, Ho! Rat! formed by his name. Do we want a skulking rat to win Survivor?

And finally, lest my vote be discounted, I'll repeat my earlier reasoning that Othar is not a significant enough character to win Survivor.

[Elu Ancalime]

++Ohtar
As a recall from Unfinished Tales, Ohtar is afraid of being cowardly. I think that speaks for itself, right?
________
Silversurfer vaporizer

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Moderadacil

Had Lhuna stuck to her guns, and voted Celeborn, he'd have been gone in a double-lynching. However, she didn't, and we also didn't have an army of anti-Celeborn 'Downers ride in on Pink Oliphaunts, so he survives another day. 'Tis Amandil who must "sail west".

Why do these people have to see the sense in voting against him so late? Unfortunately, I've been swayed...

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Lhuna, never vote Celeborn again and I'll...smile. Savvee?

*sigh* You really know how to manipulate people.

Okay, so no more votes against *ehem* Celeborn...now will you join me in getting rid of Celebrían? I would suppose you'll have no other reason to keep her around other than her being Celeborn's daughter, if that's even a reason enough.

[Anguirel]

I can't vote Celebrian-she has silver hair.

Ha! Ha! The pact is sealed!

++OHTAR-an office boy who shouldn't be carrying dangerous sharp things...

[Lhunardawen]

What the...?!

Pfft. Fine.

++CELEBRIAN

for having silver hair, not doing anything substantial in Middle-earth other than giving birth to a half-Man and a half-Elf, getting herself caught and tortured, then sailing to the West because she couldn't take life anymore. What a coward.

Everyone else vote Celeborn!

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

phantom, you're a fine dictator, but like most such you don't understand the significance of the insignificant. Nor the insignificance of the significant.

Citizens of Arda, eject Sauron and let the minor characters have their day...

You accuse me of hypocrisy and inconsistency in defending the minor characters and voting for Celeborn (hardly a minor character). And yet, having made the statement above two days ago, you now see fit to cast your vote for Ohtar, possibly the most minor character of all those remaining. Talk about the pot calling the saucepan black ...

Elves make up nearly half of the remaining contestants. The "Endorian" tribe is the strongest tribe. Ergo, an Elf from the Endorian tribe must go. Of the three, Celeborn is the least extraordinary. Cirdan, while absenting himself from the affairs of Middle-earth for large parts of the First, Second and Third Ages was at least an extraordinary shipwright. Celebrian suffered intense torture at the hands of Orcs, and so deserves our sympathy. Celeborn did nothing which any other Elf of similar standing could not have achieved. As I have established previously, his claims to be the wisest Elf and greatest giver of gifts were vastly over-inflated. He relies solely on his wife for his renown and for his place in Middle-earth legend. And he even ensured that history was re-written in an attempt to ensure that his embarassing true name would remain hidden. Surely we can countenance the presence of this fraudulent upstart on the island no longer.

+ + TELEPORNO

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Maybe I should re-honour my alliance with Anguirel . . .

++Ohtar

(Not his real name . . . Why? Is his real name something ugly, something downright repulsive? 'Oh, look, there's [name deleted], son of an Orc!' he must have been taunted while yet a youth.

Why give him a hard-to-pronounce name, for crying out loud? He might have well been named 'Random Númenórean # 72 for all we care.)

If that's not Tolkien-based, I'll implore the Mod God of Ened-in-Nowhere to strike you down, Formendaga.

[Firefoot]

Not Ohtar. Don't ask me why, exactly, but I rather like the chap.

++Celeborn

I already explained this yesterday. He's just not as important as people make him sound; Galadriel would get on just as well without him. He doesn't bring anything to the table.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Celuien

++OHTAR

Of the Lord of the Rings Code:

Obviously, by naming this character Ohtar, Tolkien was trying to tell us that Ohtar's role could be filled by any other character. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that substituing an 'e' for the 'a' in his name and reversing the h with the t changes Ohtar to Other. The e to a substitution is the correct interpretation since the 'a' is the second vowel in Othar and e is the second vowel in the alphabet.

If that doesn't convince you, consider the anagram, Ho! Rat! formed by his name. Do we want a skulking rat to win Survivor?

And finally, lest my vote be discounted, I'll repeat my earlier reasoning that Othar is not a significant enough character to win Survivor.

COUNTED- due to a direct reference to Ohtar’s general insignificance as a character in the Canon.

The anagram, though not technically Tolkien-based, is a bit of wordplay, and I’m sure the good professor would approve.

Originally Posted by Elu Ancalime

++Ohtar
As a recall from Unfinished Tales, Ohtar is afraid of being cowardly. I think that speaks for itself, right?

Can’t recall the text myself, but I think Elu’s right. Not sure if that constitutes an argument one way or another, but it’s Tolkien-based. COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

++OHTAR-an office boy who shouldn't be carrying dangerous sharp things...

COUNTED- barely, for sarcastic referencing of Ohtar’s status as a Squire, and for his delivery of the Shards of Narsil to Rivendell.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

++CELEBRIAN

for having silver hair, not doing anything substantial in Middle-earth other than giving birth to a half-Man and a half-Elf, getting herself caught and tortured, then sailing to the West because she couldn't take life anymore. What a coward.

Recounts (essentially) all of Celebrían’s known history, with a negative bias. COUNTED

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Celeborn did nothing which any other Elf of similar standing could not have achieved. As I have established previously, his claims to be the wisest Elf and greatest giver of gifts were vastly over-inflated. He relies solely on his wife for his renown and for his place in Middle-earth legend. And he even ensured that history was re-written in an attempt to ensure that his embarassing true name would remain hidden. Surely we can countenance the presence of this fraudulent upstart on the island no longer.

+ + TELEPORNO

COUNTED, for the same reason’s as Lhuna’s vote.

Originally Posted by Nilmodion Felagund

++Ohtar

(Not his real name . . . Why? Is his real name something ugly, something downright repulsive? 'Oh, look, there's [name deleted], son of an Orc!' he must have been taunted while yet a youth.

Why give him a hard-to-pronounce name, for crying out loud? He might have well been named 'Random Númenórean # 72 for all we care.)

COUNTED- for referencing the fact that Tolkien states that Ohtar was probably not Ohtar’s name. It means, roughly Squire/Knight, and was more properly his title. We do not know “Ohtar”’s name.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

++Celeborn

I already explained this yesterday. He's just not as important as people make him sound; Galadriel would get on just as well without him. He doesn't bring anything to the table.

COUNTED- since I remember Firefoot’s argument of yesterday.

Hmm… slow day here at the office- and I let things run late too.

[Formendacil]

The seveneenth day of voting was dead- really dead. And not just in the sense that it purports to take place in Arda Envinyanta (Arda Remade) or in the sense that it takes place on the 'Downs. No, it was just... dead. The voting, such as it was, fell as follows:

Celebrían: I

Celeborn: II

Ohtar: IIII

Little known and hiding behind an assumed alias, it was only a matter of time before Ohtar was outed. 'twas only fitting, perhaps, that such a little known man fell by so few votes.

HOUSEKEEPING:

This next day should be very close to 24 hours in duration. If that isn't possible, I'll let it change on the longer side.

Those remaining:

Tribe of the Line of Lúthien:
Anárion
Elros Tar-Minyatur
Tar-Míriel

Tribe of the "Endorians":
Celeborn
Círdan
Celebrían
Narvi
Fangorn

Tribe of the Rest:
The Witch-king
Celebrimbor
Galadriel

Day 18 begins now. Vote away!

[Anguirel]

++ELROS TAR-MINYATUR

It's been proven by popular consent he's the brother of a cissy. So he's probably a cissy himself. Which would explain why he never did anything interesting, like fighting wars or worshipping Melkor...

[Diamond18]

Hmm... to vote or not vote today. I'm a little torn, because mainly I would like to put Ang out of his misery and remove Celeborn from the game, because day after day this constant gnawing at Saucey's ankles about it is really bordering on sad. Yet, voting for Celeborn would only give cause for Ang to gnaw at my ankles about it, which increases the sadness of the whole situtation. Saucey, in the meantime, no doubt laughs with maniacal glee as he posts here with the sole intent of driving Ang batty and causing him to gnaw at people's ankles. All in defense of Celeborn, who honestly isn't great enough to merit such prolonged bickering. Sure, he was a good supportive husband, probably the submissive type, quite likely my sort of guy. But do those types usually win Survivor?

But, even though I think that getting rid of Celeborn because he's taking up way too much space in the minds and efforts of players is a good reason to vote for him, it's not Tolkien based and is therefore a waste of a vote.

Well, right now I'm goin to vote again for

+ + Treebead

My previous points about him the last time I voted still apply.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Cidan

In the First and Third Ages the bearded one
does important things, but for the Second
Age he's just not all that important.

Btw, does he like a nice trimmed
beard or the natural, older statesman look?

[Celuien]

++CIRDAN
Reasons given here.

I feel sorry for Elros, although I liked his wiser sibling more.

[Eonwe]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

It's been proven by popular consent he's the brother of a cissy. So he's probably a cissy himself. Which would explain why he never did anything interesting, like fighting wars or worshipping Melkor...

So Hector, obviously, is a pansy because Paris is. The absolutely does not follow. And I don't have anything against not being uninteresting. Tolkien was all about the uninteresting, stalwart characters: think Treebeard, Samwise Gamgee and his Gaffer, Bilbo, Butterburr, and a host of others.

Not to mention Elrond is anything but a sissy...considering that without him, his wise counse, and his wisdom in building a refuge and bastion, the Kindly West would have fallen long before the time of Bilgo and Frodo.

I say we vote for Celebrian. I now recant my original position, and take up the opposite and equally valid argument that, as there is nothing important ever told about her, she is not worthy of staying in the running. Sure, she porduced offspring that reunited the long-sundered branches of the Dunedian, and she was the daughter of Galadriel. But she never did anything cool herself.

[Formendacil]

If the voters thought to prolong the proceedings by avoiding the vote on Day Eighteen, they were wrong. With relentless, inexorable force, the Moderator prepared for another day's eviction. The voting, such as it was, fell as follows:

Treebeard: I
Elros Tar-Minyatur: I

Círdan: II

Like the gentleman he was, Círdan departed from the game without a fuss...

HOUSEKEEPING:

In case no one's noticed, I didn't analyse the votes publicly. All of them were valid, in any case.

Those remaining:

Tribe of the Line of Lúthien:
Anárion
Elros Tar-Minyatur
Tar-Míriel

Tribe of the "Endorians":
Celeborn
Celebrían
Narvi
Fangorn

Tribe of the Rest:
The Witch-king
Celebrimbor
Galadriel

...who are now being shuffled into two remaining tribes:

Tribe of Those Born Immortal:
Celeborn
Galadriel
Celebrían
Celebrimbor
Fangorn

Tribe of Those Born Mortal:
Elros Tar-Minyatur
Tar-Míriel
Anárion
The Witch-king
Narvi

Day 19 begins now. Vote away!

[Diamond18]

I think the vote is suffering from "Werewolf Syndrome", Form. Everyone's been so wrapped up in the two WW games we've been a little distracted from Survivor.

+ + Fangorn

Frankly, I'm too lazy at the moment to build a case against anyone else. So, as my reasons from the last two times still apply, I'm voting Treebeard again.

[Firefoot]

++Treebeard

For being annoyingly slow and boring. It's a wonder the Ents get anything done at all with someone like him for a leader. Sure they may have all the time in the world, but most people don't. Besides, the Entwives must have left for a reason, probably because they got so bored with their dull husbands. And if the Entwives couldn't even stand them...

He just doesn't seem to do much ever. Sure, he has all the time in the world, but so do Elves, and you don't see them just wasting their lives away.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

I think the vote is suffering from "Werewolf Syndrome", Form. Everyone's been so wrapped up in the two WW games we've been a little distracted from Survivor.

Sad, but probably true...

Still, it could make for some interesting evictions, with the big voting blocks all busy...

[Gil-Galad]

++Celebrían


A.K.A.


Little Miss weakling! honestly? would you run away if a couple orcs that were picnicing nearby and saw a elf girl wandering the mountain-tops and decided to invite you in a ruffish-eat-your-had-way?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Celebrimbor

Stop the Ring madness!

[Lalaith]

++Fangorn

For alienating the ent-wives and thus dooming his own species.

[Celuien]

I don't see Eomer here. Here's my chance, though I'll probably pay for it later.

++FANGORN

Now, there's a difference between not being hasty and being painfully, terribly slow. Fangorn falls on the painfully slow end of the spectrum. Despite the attacks on the forest by Saruman and his creatures, he never would have done a thing about it if not for Merry and Pippin's arrival. Ostensibly, his job was to guard the forest from non-plant life. But it was only the persuasion of the definitely non-plant Hobbits that finally got him to do his job. What kind of steward is that? Yavanna would be very disappointed, I think.

Oh, and I can't support a Fan of the Gorn. I stand with Kirk.

[the phantom]

It looks like we might finally be rid of the great leafy bore. It's about time.

I voted for him a few pages ago. Here's what I said-

This is what Treebeard said to Merry and Pippin in the chapter entitled "Treebeard"-

The only reason Treebeard didn't squash Merry and Pippin immediately was that he thought their voices were cute. That doesn't sound very nice to me.
-----------------------------------
I hate people who take to long to get to the point, and so I am very much anti-ent to begin with. And then consider, how much good do ents really do? Except for once every few thousand years they don't do anything of value. And they aren't even decent enough chaps to travel with their wives, but instead they just let them wander off to meet their fate alone.

+ + Treebeard