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12-16-2022, 05:08 PM | #601 | |||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Speaking of PD, though, there is a line that I wanted to bring up as something to potentially change if there are good ideas: Beren's "Those daring to love can walk unscathed through strife". His actual line here is more about loyalty: those who are faithful can stand unafraid on the edge [of a precipice]. But Finrod's next line is just too important, and this one took the hit for rhyming purposes. Although... Now that I think about it, Beren is sort of consistent with his "love is the meaning of life" theme, and it makes perfect internal sense for him to keep singing that tune. And you know what? Maybe it actually works well this way, it goes back to the two different themes interplaying between Wind and Truth. Beren needs to keep the Love Conquers All theme going. Finrod surrendered to fate's hand and is dealing with greater philosophical questions. Yes. I have just talked myself out of thinking that this line was a rubbish filler. If there's a good alternative, we can change it, but it's fine as it is. ^.^ Quote:
I am gonna have to watch the movie musical now and see what you mean about the stage play elements. It occurred to me that the play has better Russian grammar than most large screen productions. I saw two versions of the end scene so far, and Matildas in both speak with too much of an accent for me to make out anything beyond "I don't speak Russian very well". But the other dude actually speaks pretty grammatically. Oh, so many times you watch movie scenes and you just know they ran the dialogue through google translator, and you wonder how expensive can it be to hire a native speaker to translate your two lines for you without making a hilarious wreck of it. But this actually makes sense. "We don't want any children who might be here to go home and try these things out for themselves. I am, of course, talking about reading books," - The Real Star Of The Show, to Sam Gamgee, probably.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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12-21-2022, 08:35 PM | #602 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Still no news on the Zong front - the last while I've been pushing hard on Dawn to try and meet my self-imposed deadline of finishing before New Year's. I really want to have 2022 written on the cover. And I only have a couple chapters left to edit, I am almost there! Now, I've already nagged a small handful of people into promising to read it at some point, but it would make me really really happy if you gave it a read sometime - you are the only one who would appreciate this the most, with the occasional Zong cross-references and Script parallels... and the whole thing started on this thread. It's a book with its pros and cons, it's certainly not perfect (and least of all the translation... I like to think that I found my rhythm by Ch4 though), but I am of the firm opinion that even if you don't like it you will at least find it interesting - there is enough in there of canon and unpredictable fan-creation, adventure and philosophy, tragedy and humour and snark to have at least a piece for everyone's liking. Every wonder why songs rhyme? Or why swear words exist? Well, wonder no more, for you have a Middle-earthian explanation waiting in store for you. What impressed me the most was how well the book integrates all of its altfic plots back into canonical streams; most of the threads are woven in very well, and there are barely any loose ends, every alt addition gets its closure. I was thinking very much about this book when I posted the thread on fanfics, and I think this one qualifies a pass by your definition. But the reason I am writing all this is - what format would you prefer to read it in? As the first potential reader, it's your call. Do you want to leave comments / edits / suggestions? Do you want it to be a pageless read-only thing? I will not say no to any beta-reading but strictly on a voluntary basis. I did look into the site you posted earlier, but I'm not sure this is ready for full publicity yet - it's still rough around the edges, and I technically don't have the author's permission for any official publication. (Asking for forgiveness rather than permission is sort of our thing now, innit? ) So, if you think that you might give this a read, let me know how you would prefer to see it, and once I bang out the last two chapters I will convert it to that format... which itself will probably take a few days of copy-pasting from the tables I have now, but it would need to happen eventually, so...
But in the meantime, since all you've known of Dawn so far were the two most boring chapters in the entire work written with the poorest translation skill you'll see in the whole thing - literally the worst sample to use as a selling point - here is a "teaser-trailer" snippet, slightly abridged for spoilers: Quote:
Hope you have a fantastic holiday time, and that you're all feeling well after the last wave of colds!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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12-26-2022, 10:23 AM | #603 | |
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hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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12-31-2022, 02:30 PM | #604 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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If you don't feel like rereading the first two chapters, here is a quick summary: Beren is hounded out of Dorthonion, where he was hiding in an old woman's hut in the mountains, and crosses Nan Dungortheb. He staggers out into Neldoreth following Luthien's singing and dancing. She recognizes that he is a Man and gives him lembas. Beren slowly recovers physically, but he bears an unusual ailment - he cannot make any sound, and cannot remember any events occurring before he woke in the witch's hut. The Elves keep him in the forest under watch, but Luthien pleads with her father that he ought to be healed. She goes to Beren herself to work her healing magic, and Beren regains his speech on seeing her again. Unbeknownst to her, Beren fell in love with her from the first glance, and her brief stay with him is a little awkward for them both - but she gets to know both Beren and mortals in general a lot closer. Luthien succeeds in recovering his memory: Beren discovered from Merdigan the traitor that Sauron will march on Hithlum come next spring. He meant to bring these news to the Elven kingdoms in the south, but was captured and tortured before he could leave the country. He was rescued by Treebeard and carried to the witch's hut where she worked on his wounds. Beren and Luthien's relationship comes to a head, however, when they realize they are both in love with each other. Torn between his love and his guilt at binding Luthien to him, Beren chooses to stick by Finrod's advice to Andreth and Aegnor that Elves and mortals should not marry. Luthien leaves him. However, Beren cannot find peace, and one night he escapes his guards and finds Luthien. Both confess that they love each other in spite of all the arguments, say their wedding vows, and share a bed. To their ill luck, they are discovered by Daeron, who is furious. They run away and seek harbour in Celeborn and Galadriel's estate, from where they come to Menegroth in a presentable fashion rather than as prisoners. Thingol sends Beren to get a Silmaril, and Beren vows that one will lay in his hand the next time he sets foot in Doriath. Daeron and Celeborn escort him out of Doriath by the shortest possible way - southwards towards the Dwarf Road. Daeron is predictably enraged and has nothing good to wish the mortal. Celeborn, however, was impressed by Beren's wisdom and fortitude and wishes him well. Melian warns Thingol that his decision entangled Doriath in a greater doom: either he or Luthien will die depending on the outcome of Beren's Quest.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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03-26-2023, 02:40 PM | #605 |
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Hello again, and, er... happy new year? We're still in the first quarter, at any rate...
I'm afraid my reading of "Dawn" rather stalled out when work picked up. Last I remember I was about to start the "Sauron" chapter - oh, that's right, but it wasn't a comments link! Any chance you could fix that so I can ramble away to my heart's content again? Hmm, speaking of Hearts... we switched over to British Summer Time today, which means we're a little bit more awake this evening than normal. That meant Celebestel and I finally both had the energy to pull up Heart and get her recording. So, finally, finally, and with my sincere apologies for the delay: Heart - Amarie solo version - audio Heart - duet (rough) I need to rerecord at least some of my lines (I think I had a sore throat when I did them), but at least you get the feel. I know we discussed swapping the lines around to make more sense of the geography, but I don't think we ever found an arrangement that really worked. The problem is it was written as a solo! I think the "Libretto arrangement" works if we treat Finrod's words as a memory of the First Dawn, which did come out of the west. But I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Video will come when we're sure of the arrangement (and I've rerecorded my bits). hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
03-27-2023, 09:44 AM | #606 | ||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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I have been rather reticent myself with regard to my Tolkien projects. I felt like I had so much creative energy to spare after Dawn was done, but then something RL happened to wipe that all off the board, and I've really struggled to find any motivation to write music. My attempts to pick away at the Zong have been very feeble. Fortunately, just recently I feel like that front finally gave in on Hate, I have been writing something that's actually presentable. Unfortunately, this also happens the time I need to prepare for a giant exam and end-of-year project, so it's slow going - but I might have the Feanorian part finished in another couple weeks. Quote:
No, seriously, this is gorgeous - especially the duet. I wavered about duet vs solo, it was hard to judge because obviously we haven't had any duets to compare with, and I was dubious about it - but this duet is absolutely gorgeous! I think it actually works better than the solo musically, Finrod kinda highlights Amarie's lines and it makes for a brighter whole. I am 100% sold on the duet concept. And you guys sing very well together. ^.^ Without looking at the text and overthinking it again, I thought the lyrics worked the way they are now. I do recall that we decided Finrod was singing about the first ever sunrise at the end of the Helcaraxe. We were talking about swapping some of the lines around to make them more appropriate - but it was never a perfect fit, as you say, and musically I think this works well. I say we keep it if you're happy with it. And I didn't notice your voice being off at all, I thought it sounded fine.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 03-27-2023 at 09:50 AM. |
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03-28-2023, 08:19 AM | #607 |
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I've re-recorded my parts for "Heart" and made a start on the video; I'll post it when it's done.
Last month the videos associated with my old Youtube account were finally deleted, so I've had to start re-uploading everything. At present, we have the following videos online, mostly without subtitles: 01 - Galadriel's Lament 02 - Oath of Feanor 03 - Meeting in Neldoreth 04 - Doriath Duet 05 - Appeal 06 - Amarie 10 - Dream 13 - Sauron's Minions 15 - Sons of Feanor That means 07 (Renunciation), 08 (Quarrel), 09 (Melian's Aria), 11 (The Camp), 14 (The Duel of Song), 17 (Captivity), and 19 (Wind) need re-uploading, while 12 (Heart), 16 (Hate), 18 (Prison Duet), 20 (Truth), 21 (Showdown of Lúthien and Sauron), and 22 (Ballad of Galadriel) remain to be created. Heart is inches from done, you've sketched the Prison Duet, and now you're working on Hate - we really are getting towards the end! (Oh, and I see I did the background for the Showdown too - I'd forgotten that, but I like it.) Actually, speaking of the artwork... I'm happy with the backgrounds, but are there any characters you think I need to redo? This moment, when everything is being fiddled with anyway, is the perfect time to work on that, and the art is old enough that I'm willing to go back to them if you think they need it. And while we're at it: were there any songs you'd reworked? I know we discussed a few, but a quick glance doesn't show me any files I need to work on. EDIT: Crimson the night has passed over mountains undying... hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Huinesoron; 03-28-2023 at 10:46 AM. |
03-28-2023, 08:15 PM | #608 | |||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Beauty!
I will add Heart and all the other links to the top post. And going through that post, looks like we also had links for the Quenya Nainie, the live actions for Oath and Renunciation, and a straight run of the first 4 songs (which as I recall still had old visuals and is probably scrap anyways except for historic value because the art is different and because Doriat Duet will need to be redone). Quote:
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- Lament: re-sing, possibly music tweaks. Volume rebalance (Finrod sounds way louder than her). - Doriath Duet: I would do a complete makeover, if you allow it. Totally change the music. Faster tempo. Melian really needs re-singing. This was an "early draft" which I wrote to be realistically playable by me and not to optimize its musical potential on the computer, and all of this really shows. - Appeal: this one I actually did tweak! But can't promise to not tweak again. It's the last stanza that's bugging me. This is just the "Appeal proper" section of it, without the intro. They are separate files which I just slapped on to each other, with no particular measurement for the gap in between. If you need the intro audio too, can record that separately. - Amarie/Ballad: there are a couple notes which I wish I made more forceful and minor little things here and there, and I sometimes threaten to revisit it, but really I'm quite happy to leave it as is. I really love the way you made that song. - The Feanorian Comedic Relief gives me pure joy right now. And Melian's Aria/Dream/Camp seem alright too. No plans to meddle unless you have requests. - Minions: only if you think we should change something there. I am not completely certain about that song, it was a style judgement call which I don't know if I did rightly or wrongly, and happy to change music or singing if you feel it needs adjustment. - Duel: I want to redo the music to also bring it up to par with the newer and fancier songs. I was still trying to write that one realistic, rather than what sounds best on the computer. I promise not to change the length or the tempo, just the instruments. - Sons: I might redo Luthien's singing in this one. It's surprisingly poor quality of a record. I might just redo it with a different mic. - Captivity: I adore Sauron and ElfChoir. Elf choir should probably be a bit quieter though, the Elves are singing rather vigorously right now for people on their last breath. - Wind: if I change anything, it's the flowiness of the intro, to make it less bangy. Of all these things, I only feel strongly about Duet and Duel. The rest are presentable as is. Are there any that you would like to see tweaked or even fully reworked?
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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03-30-2023, 07:29 AM | #609 | ||
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Current Luthien and Beren (just because I had them to hand). NeoDigital Luthien & Beren, done over the course of about 2-3 hours this morning. This is the same shading style I've used for the "slideshow" sections (eg the intro), and therefore different from the backdrops. They're not perfect, but I think they come out looking better than the drawn versions - and because I have the drawings, I can put them together relatively quickly. What do you think? hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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03-31-2023, 05:14 AM | #610 |
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Some more of the NeoDigital drawings:
I've actually made intentional changes to these; I've shortened Finrod's overly-long head and removed his necklace (it didn't really seem to add anything), and taken down Amarie's weird-looking waving arm. The nice thing about working digitally is that I can just do that - in pencil, if I've coloured something I'm stuck with it. My thought is to put together a 3-song run of Dream-Camp-Heart to test out the new style, see whether it's a dead end. Edit: I've also drawn Celegorm but Curufin got a bit weird looking, I'll go back to them. For now, as threatened, I've put together the run which we've just completed ; and in true Dawn style, I've called it Brethil. I think it works better. The various things on screen look more cohesive now, even if they aren't precisely the same style. (I should note that replacing portraits in the video maker is trivially easy - I literally just had to replace the source files in their folder and re-export. The thing that took the time was salvaging the mess I'd made of Camp when I started the video for Heart, but even that wasn't too bad.) hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Huinesoron; 03-31-2023 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Brethil |
04-02-2023, 07:51 PM | #611 | ||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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And, as promised - Feanorian part of Hate. I feel like... I don't love it, but it does channel hate and anger and all those lovely things fairly reasonably. To be honest, I feel like Heart was probably the most mature and refined piece I've done musically so far, and I don't know if that's gonna be beat. I hope so, but I feel like the final songs might be doing it with force rather than skill or subtlety. Quote:
As a side note, I thought the visuals between videos transitioned very well, and the music was not terrible either. As I recall, concert versions aside, most performances had some kind of musical "background noise" to aid the transitions between songs. Do you feel that we need something like this? Might be a bit early to tell, but something to keep in mind if the songs refuse to stick together.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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04-03-2023, 06:11 AM | #612 | ||||
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What I can do is enhance the contrast on the skin only - deeper shadows, so that they look like features rather than ripples: I'm not sure about that; I think it makes the flaws in my art too obvious, while keeping it softer just looks stylised. Quote:
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EDIT: Throwing in the final characters from Act One, just for funsies: Thingol and Melian are very close to the hand-drawn versions, I'm happy with them (and Melian's dress has a nice glow to it). Galadriel... her face is a mess, I need to revisit. But otherwise I quite like her? Her costume is simple, but it's meant to be. (I've also done the Faithful trio, but haven't touched Sauron or his Minions yet.) hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Huinesoron; 04-04-2023 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Final picture |
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04-06-2023, 07:09 AM | #613 |
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Tell me, Heather, tell me the truth... // Give me the words! Or take your final beat...
After literal years of work on both our parts, I am positively flipping delighted to be able to share Finrod-Zong: Act 1. From the shores of Valinor to the forests of Brethil, by way of Doriath, Nargothrond, and points in between, our heroes (and villains) clock up almost an hour of singing and what's technically known as A Whole Bunch of pictures and music. I'm happy with the "Neo" pictures; they could be better, but so could anything in this baffling project. My guess is that our final state will be a single huge video plus individual ones for each song, so this is still an intermediate state - but at least it finally looks like the finished thing. It's also useful for checking the audio balance. Right away I noticed that Finrod is too loud (on headphones) in the Lament, and I'm pretty sure different songs are coming in at different volumes. That's simple to address, and this lets us spot it. (You can also look at your "background music" question; it's outside my competence I'm afraid.) ~ Unrelated to Act 1, I also have a translation question: both Luthien and Galadriel sing "Love is the only law that counts", in the Showdown and the Epilogue. My question is: could they mean "Love is the only Oath that counts"? It feels like it would be more thematically linked with the Zong and the Lay. Actually, back in Act 1 we have a few instances of "love indeed knows no rules". Could it be something like "love is bound by no rules/laws/oaths" instead? It's always sounded kind of weird for such a key line, and "bound" would be a nice word for something based on the Release from Bondage. hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
04-07-2023, 09:36 AM | #614 | ||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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And headphones... The bane of my existence. I do all my work with a set of those, and depending on which ones I use it sounds really different. At some point I decided to calibrate all the music to my slightly better quality but uncomfortable to wear set. The issue is it tends to emphasize sounds differently. I've listened to the run with my comfortable earphones, and the music sounds kinda bad when I pay attention to it, but that's because I'm used to hearing it in the good set. Maybe I should have calibrated for the cheap ones from the beginning? But then the cheap ones keep breaking on me and need replacement every couple months... Blergh. Headphone trouble aside, I think it sounds pretty good! It does make me wanna bump up the urgency of remaking Doriath though. You sing a fantastic Thingol, but even that doesn't cover up how much of an ugly sore the music and Melian's piece is, especially on the background of the other songs. If we redo that, we will have a presentable Act 1. ^.^ Thinking about the gaps between songs, I actually thought most of them could do with allowing a bit more reflective silence in between. I think the intros help mitigate the "awkward silence" at the start, they create the ambient mood-setting background noise in the beginning. And in between the songs there can be a bit of a pause to let the impact hang for a bit (especially for pieces like Ballad to Amarie and Aria). The one exception is the pause between Lament and Oath, which I thought was a bit draggy, and then Oath kinda started playing out of nowhere. I wonder if it makes sense to overlap their audio/visuals - put the Oath tower at the end of the protracted outro for Lament, so that when that last note finally dies it's already set up to begin playing Oath without much of a pause? I don't know how difficult that's gonna be though. Maybe just shortening the pause would be fine. Quote:
Galadriel in Epilogue sings "firmer than steel and fetters, stronger than oaths and above words, the only law - love itself". She repeats: "And if this new world is such that in it the Law is Love itself"... ekh, grammatically weird when you keep it literal, but basically she sticks with "law". Back in Act 1 Finrod sings twice about "love knows no rules", which is pretty literal. I believe it's "Oh would that in this world love knew of no rules" in Ballad, and "I see at last that love indeed knows no rules" in Camp. Rules, in both languages. They all use different language in the original, but indeed there is a running theme conceptually through all of their songs. I don't know if I agree with changing all the Law's to Oath's; I think the meaning is a little different, and they are not mutually exclusive statements. "Rules" makes sense too, and it's an existing expression, and it adds another flavour of meaning that makes sense for Finrod in particular - not that Love is the ultimate force in the universe but that it doesn't recognize logical constraints and can overcome them in spite of petty things like Time and Sea and Oaths and whatever else; I see his statement as an affirmation that he has faith his and Amarie's love can rekindle in spite of all the "technical difficulties". I don't think he's quite at the point where he would declare Love to be the only oath (after all, he's on a quest to fulfil his oath to Barahir), nor the chief driving force of the universe (or the Duel would have been a repeat of Showdown). Luthien says both Oath and Law, because personally for her this is the one loyalty from which she cannot be swerved, and she recognized that she is being moved and powered by a force that she has no control over. Galadriel says Law as she is reflecting on the way of the world, the big cogwheels that make history move, the foundations that the world rests upon. I am not opposed to having them all say different things, I think they have a different flavour in their respective contexts. And I think they were written with this in mind - though it's obvious that there is a recurring theme, they were not written to say identical things throughout. I am not sure though what you meant at the end with "bound". Changing just Finrod's part?
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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04-13-2023, 05:31 PM | #615 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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A quick post with an update on Hate - up until "Oh my king". I am really excited about the song now, I feel like it's growing well. The Feanorian part, like you said, wasn't gonna particularly subtle anyways, and it's flexible enough that there's many ways to echo the lines or not as you so choose. Thingol's part felt like a smooth transition. And in Melian's part I opted to actually not score her melody specifically as it would be sung and instead add a countermelody and I feel like that makes it keep building up. And Melian and Thingol are still singing over the backdrop of the Feanorian's earlier rhythm, which I think is just musically cool, but symbolically they are all tangled up in the same curse/story and singing the same Song and I am so happy with it.
For the Madness part, I did a lot of thinking because V1 and V2 do it quite differently. I thought that one way could be to score and sing the Madness trio as in V2, but rather than a cut to black as in Aria (because this is not a raging Melian but more a lamenting one) I can repeat just the music of Madness but in V1 style, as a way to fade the song out. Basically - first time sung, second time just musical repetition. What do you think? Also, I have a sinking feeling that I may have screwed up the hyperlinks and given you the wrong version of Appeal, but I still need to verify that. Uuuhhh... Before you're ready to produce a final copy of Act 1, I can just re-record it to be sure.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
04-15-2023, 01:44 PM | #616 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Oooooo... More urgent question, also on the basis of V1 / V2 differences - when Melian sings Madness, do you think the Feanorians ought to keep going with their echoes (your land will fall down into shadow etc)? May affect how I score that part. Though I kinda rather like the musical aspect of them, so might keep a semblance regardless.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
04-20-2023, 07:39 AM | #617 | |||||||
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hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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04-20-2023, 08:09 AM | #618 | ||||
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& as an aside to the above: elsewhere I'm being very silly and basically filking an entire Shakespeare play as A Doriathrin Night's Dream. In additional to generalised Legendarium silliness:
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hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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05-30-2023, 12:43 PM | #619 | |
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I felt up to singing, so I did a single-pass run of Hate (as far as it goes):
The Oath has been sworn and we are GRUMPY about it I really enjoy the speed of it, actually; I wasn't sure I would but it's powerful stuff. I wasn't sure how many third-line repeats the boys should get, so I just did all of them. Meanwhile, over in A Doriathrin Night's Dream, Sauron and Finrod derailed the script to have a Zong-influenced rap battle: Quote:
hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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05-30-2023, 06:59 PM | #620 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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This. Sounds. Amazing.
You don't even understand. This sounds so good. All the voices overlapping. I love how the complexity builds throughout the song. And I really love how you do distinct voices for all of them - you are becoming quite the voice actor. Full disclosure - I have been struggling a lot to summon motivation for this project. It always gets put on the back burner in favour of some stupid time-wasting. I feel like I really want to finish it, but at the same time I will finish it tomorrow, and so the work that never gets started predictably is taking very very long to actually complete. It's been sitting somewhere at the start of Melian's Madness for about a month now. But I listened to your recording, and it reminded me of everything I love about this song, and so... Hate: Accompaniment. *As an aside - if I was a Feanorian, I would probably revert back to the early humorous version of the translation: damn you fulfilling your part while I procrastinate... Lol. I feel like if anyone actually makes this a play, or even just a read-through, I will absolutely tune in.
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06-02-2023, 02:53 PM | #621 | ||
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It does! It's a real sleeper of a song, because it always feels like it's just there to give all the Act One characters a bit of a sendoff, but actually it's really good!
... and I've re-recorded it with the better microphone: Hate - hS version I wasn't sure whether you were giving Melian two "madness" triads? The music is there, so I sang it, but when you record you can do whatever you intended. I've also shuffled the Feanorians around a bit to make them match Version 2 better (the Finrod passage). I also got most of the missing videos back up - I think I only have 3 of the main songs to go, plus the live & Elvish versions. I might get that finished tonight, we'll see. Quote:
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hS EDIT: All the main videos are now in place in the Libretto. Working on the weird ones now. Also: my children have asked if they can sing some of the songs. I've said I want to create a short (3-4 song) version of the Zong and record them performing it. Given that there's only two of them (plus me if I'm needed, as... Sauron, I guess?), any thoughts on how it should run? I should note that the only song they ever learnt any of was the Lament. ^_^ With a little narration, something like Lament - Appeal - Camp - Duel - Truth - Epilogue might work? With one child as Finrod, one as Galadriel and Beren, and me as Sauron? Dropping Lament and the Epilogue would make it shorter, but I think they'd enjoy them. ^_^ ~hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Huinesoron; 06-02-2023 at 03:49 PM. |
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06-12-2023, 02:38 AM | #622 |
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I made a start on animating Hate a while back; I think I got one and a half Feanorions done. There's nothing complicated about it, I just need to put in the time.
But then I got sidetracked and did something else instead. ^_^ Quarrel - Live Action - starring the kids This wasfun. In the interests of speed we filmed before they actually knew the song, so the lip-synching pretty much isn't. Kind of makes it look like it's dubbed from the original Elvish. If/when we do another, we'll do the recording first, to make it easier to keep track of who has which lines. hS
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06-22-2023, 08:00 PM | #623 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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When you posted this video, it was a little kick in the backside to start working on this again. And today after reading your Dawn comments I was in such a positive and creative mood as I haven't had for a while, so I cleared my desk of all the stupid nonsense that's been stressing me out lately and finally started on Prison Duet. This was fun! I actually miss doing this, now that I've made my way back into Finrodland and getting over my state of generalized demotivation. I miss that feeling of a bubbling idea you manifest bit by bit to make this project. I feel like it's finally bubbling again. ^.^
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06-22-2023, 08:22 PM | #624 | |||
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Ah, and I missed the edit on your previous post too. How inattentive of me. Let me reply to the whole post properly.
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For Melian, I had a vague recollection that we (maybe?) settled on doing one sung stanza followed by one musical fade-off. Initially I wasn't gonna sing the second repeat. But that is also subject to experimenting - do you feel like it's better sung? Does it make a difference for visuals? I really think it could go either way. Quote:
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I have actually been thinking of trying to do some video filming on my end as well, plus or minus coordinating with you or other people to actually do some live action songs with female roles. But I am so far from bringing the idea from the highly hypothetical to something more concrete that it's not something for the near future.
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07-29-2023, 06:04 AM | #625 | |
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I remain repeatedly sidetracked, but in between packing for vacation I have distracted myself by finishing up the animation for 16 - Hate. It's such a fun bouncy hatey song. ^_^ Still waiting for your vocals to finish it off properly.
I've also snagged five minutes and sung the one stanza of 18 - Prison Duet that you started on. I like that one too! Quote:
hS
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08-31-2023, 03:36 PM | #626 | |
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Also, after a bit of experimentation, I thought that repeating "madness" the second time might sound a bit like beating a dead horse, so I just recorded the first one. What do you think? Should I do the second, or leave just the one?
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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09-08-2023, 12:08 PM | #627 |
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Each minute drags more... Nope, no continuation. That's all.
Finally made it to the end of the first section of Prison Duet. It feels like it's been ages, but it's just a quarter of the song. It's gonna be one long piece - both in terms of the making, and the final result.
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10-27-2023, 12:26 PM | #628 |
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Is this the longest gap I've left so far? Sorry. It continues to be one of those... years.
But! I have finally pulled myself together long enough to get the full Hate video done. Nothing fancy, but it's another song done. It also means that we have a straight run from 1-17, and once the Prison Duet is finished that will go up to 1-19. We're actually... nearly there? (Not all those have updated visuals, and I know you want to do revisions to some, but! Still!) Speaking of the Prison Duet, I listened and liked it. It's massively different to Hate, of course! Definitely feels like your music was less of the melody, more of the, uh... other thing. ^_^ I liked it. (Sadly, what I do not like is listening to myself singing this stuff. I wanted to listen to the Act 1 run a couple weeks back, but NOPE not happening.) hS
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11-09-2023, 10:35 PM | #629 | ||||
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ETA: and now I have Ballad stuck in my head :-D
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11-28-2023, 08:59 AM | #630 | |||
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I'm considering whether to get a somewhat better microphone/headset for Christmas; if I do, that might lead to a rash of re-recording (which would probably be good for consistency anyway). But that's not a right now thing. hS
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12-23-2023, 08:42 PM | #631 | ||
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Happy Yuletide!
Song lingers in turmoil and in anguish long... Aka the song is 50% finished, and approaching the cool part where they start to sorta sing over each other and squeeze twice the lines in the same amount of space. I am not thrilled with it... In particular the second stanza was written with an array of different audio tech, and now when I listen with my standard earphones it sounds weird. But I think that on the whole it's singable.
When it goes to the final "about", right at the end of the scored part, I wasn't sure whether it would be 2 syllables vs 3 (a-bout vs a-bo-ut). I feel like 2 sounds more natural, the "ut" doesn't really stand alone as a separate sung note, so I can make sure that the music can accommodate that. Thoughts? Quote:
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01-05-2024, 05:15 PM | #632 |
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I had a listen and sing through earlier and I think it's good! I think how you've got the "about" line works; Celebestel and I disagree on whether it sings most naturally as "aaaaaa-bout" or "abouuuu-uuuut", but either way it flows.
Not much to say about your last two paragraphs. When you're right, you're right. I did look over the lyrics, and they're mostly good, but I had a couple of questions: - Are the ships wandering in the sky the Sun and Moon? If so, is it "their gold" in the following line? And either way, can we do "have wandered" (to avoid the did verb)? - "And glowing / upon my shoulder dawn's mark bright" has always kind of bugged me. I enlisted the whole family, and went back to the original Russian (via GTranslate), and we came up with "And glowing / Dawn brands my shoulder[s] [hot/fierce/sharp] and bright". What do you think? hS
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01-06-2024, 01:22 PM | #633 | ||
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On the subject of lyrics, I keep flip-flopping about "Those daring / to love can walk unscathed through strife". I suppose it does fit into the "love conquers all" theme, but mainly it's there to provide a rhyme for Finrod's despodent " What deed could justofy my life", which I am really fond of. As a more objective reader/viewer, does this line bother you at all?
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01-06-2024, 05:57 PM | #634 | |||
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What is Beren saying with this line? Is he comforting Finrod who's about to sacrifice himself, or rejecting "just one may be" and saying they should both die, or saying he should die instead? (Now I'm looking at the previous line, where Google says the Russian uses "lamps". Not as in the Two Lamps, right?) hS
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01-06-2024, 06:40 PM | #635 | ||
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Lol. What a can of worms.
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As for the English of Beren's line... "Unfearing" has the benefit of rhyming with "But Beren". Facing down the knife though conjures an image of a gang fight. I wonder if it can be twisted to mean walking along the edge of a blade or something. But unfortunately I can't figure out how to stuff the meaning of "loyal people may cross an abyss along the blade of a knife" into the right number of syllables. If I use the general concept (and I like using some synonyn of fidelity as a noun), I still return to things like "Unfearing / loyalty guides us through all strife". I will have to think more on this one. EDIT: Had a thought about the meaning of the "only faithful" line. Perhaps Beren is saying that if (and only if) they remain faithful, they yet stand a chance at making some kind of difference. That actually fits well with Finrod's response.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 01-07-2024 at 11:25 AM. |
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01-16-2024, 01:00 PM | #636 |
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Do you fear death and what's to come...?
All that is left to me is song! Dropping in very quickly to say I have some new birthday headphones, and needed a way to test them, soooo: "Prison Duet" - progress 3, sung Very rough; very very rough, I think the phones muffle my ears enough that I need to rethink how I sing. I know there's at least three lines I messed up the timing on, and my low notes are dropping out for some reason - not sure if that's me or the microphone. But I figured we needed something to start the year off. hS
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02-28-2024, 09:52 PM | #637 | |
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I could have moved the very hills - if only I actually worked on this consistently. This has got to be the longest song yet. But look - your New Year post inspired some new progress! I am rather pleased with the "moved the very hills - death makes equal everyone" part. And I have a rough idea of what the final section would look like, so there's hope yet that I will be done in under a year... Thinking ahead, I recall some performances at least having Finrod sing the final line ("doom fell") without any accompaniment at all, into silence - is that something you like / think is feasible?
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As another side question - are you interested in trying to harmonize Beren and Finrod when they sing together in this one? I could do the same trick I used for the Elf-choir, ie record the melody separately for each voice separately and copy that for the singing. How do you feel about it? ~~~ Looking over the words... I just can't get happy with some of them. I am still stuck with the "unscathed through strife" line. But there's another one that bugs me now - "Disowned by my own people's hearts". The original is "no [longer] a brother to my own people". Perhaps "estranged from my own people's hearts"? That seems to evoke more of the bitterness of estrangement, rather than grumpiness over losing a crown. And the "disowned" line just sounds odd. Actually, maybe I do have a couple thoughts about the "strife" line. Trying to play around more with getting the concept of loyalty rather than love back into the line, and playing with some of your suggestions... Loyalty [faithfulness?] / Is keener than the sharpest knife - I don't actually like this one, but putting it down to generate thought/discussion. Firstly, it doesn't rhyme with "But Beren". Second, it also sounds weird in a different way - it makes sense on its own but in context of the song it's a weird point for Beren to make, it sounds a bit aggressive. Unerring / steadfastness ever conquers strife - brings back strife... I can't seem to get rid of it. It still has a bit too much certainty to it though, Beren can't possibly be so assured - it should be more of a hope thing and a mutual support/comfort thing, that maybe the fact that both were faithful to their duties might count for something in the end, that if a miracle is to happen it will happen to people who stick to their promises etc. Beren is allowed to be blindly optimistic about "love conquers all", but he can't have equal certainty with loyalty. I was going to try something like "echoes past all strife" to make it slightly less definitive, but that sounds weird again. The only conclusion I have is that this line is very difficult.
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03-18-2024, 01:16 PM | #638 | ||
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Looking at the lyrics now, I think we're just too fixated on keeping the rhymes. There is no good rhyme for "life" or "heart"! So I'm going right back to square one. Here's how Google parses the Russian: F: Not a brother to his people, B: You stayed with him to the end. F: The Lord who perished into darkness! B: But you won’t find a brighter face! F: Of the two lamps, one should burn, I chose the one in front of me! B: Only the faithful stand fearlessly on the edge! F: - But, Beren, what would justify my life? How would I stand at the throne of the Day - an enchanted witness of someone else's fate?.. Coming at it completely cold, I get something like this: F: Forsaken by those I called friend B: But to the end they were your care F: The king in darkness meets his end B: But there was ne'er a face more fair! F: Of our two Lamps, but one can be; I choose the only one I see. B: No, Finrod! My loyal king, let not hope fade! F: But Beren - what other choice could I have made? How could I stay / at throne of day A witness mesmerised of other people's dooms fell...? Which resolves all the problems, at the cost of utterly shredding the lines. No, I don't think I've butchered the meaning too much. For the former "strife", I focussed on Finrod's part: he's saying "Given the choice between us, your life is so clearly more worthy that there could be no justification for saving myself". I've tweaked the final lines to say "How could I stay" - ie, how could I face judgement if I stood by and let you die? (I also tweaked the 'two Lamps' line again, to imply Finrod is saying his own light has already gone out.) After that, Beren's line was just about finding a rhyme and going for what I think he meant: one or another of loyalty/faithfulness/friendship/love can get us through the darkest times. Essentially, he thinks Finrod has given up, while Finrod sees this as a positive choice to save his friend (with the ever-present subtext that he has had Visions about Beren's place in the Music). hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Huinesoron; 03-18-2024 at 01:41 PM. |
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03-20-2024, 07:51 AM | #639 |
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Of our two Lamps, but one may shine;
I choose to give my [light/flame] to thine. Drifting from the original lyric further, but I think it captures the meaning. And: I thought were deathless mirth and sun! You were spot on about the recording delay; annoying, but fixable in post. I think I've got it right on this version, though I know some of the parts with me singing twice are still broken. So it goes. hS
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03-20-2024, 10:05 AM | #640 | |||
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Is this a comfortable pitch range for you to sing in? Another thing I can fix after the score is done is to make it a bit higher or lower, so it doesn't strain as much to sing at the upper/lower ends of the register. If you think that would be helpful, we can experiment a bit. Coming back to the previous post... Quote:
As for the lyrics - Quote:
The other stanza... I am still mulling over, and may need some convincing. It sounds lovely, but this wasn't how I read Finrod's meaning initially. I had a more depressed read on him. "My life was worthless, a waste, I am dying a stupid inglorious death in a pit" - and no backbone to give his life form and meaning, to echo Beren's earlier love theme "by you my life is justified". Your translation takes a different twist on it, that Finrod finds the thing which makes his existence worthwhile, which is sacrificing himself for Beren. It makes sense grammatically and even story-wise, but a deep part of me still prefers the utterly dejected Finrod. I rather like your Beren line - even though "Finrod" doesn't rhyme with "Beren", I think we can let that slide for the purpose of better meaning/grammar. It's also a lot easier to work with. Actually....... No, Finrod! / My loyal king, let not hope die! But by what / my [long? whole? own?] life can be justified? my [tepid?] life is justified? I think there is a way to bring "justify" back in there in some form. You are right, we were over-focused on keeping that specific line. No, Finrod! / even from ashes hope may rise! But Beren, / what deed my life now justifies? Those daring / to hope may live through [perils?] dire! But Beren, / what justifies my life entire? This makes a whole new playing field. I'm not sure I've found something I love yet, but I think this direction is an improvement. Thank you. This reminder was very much needed.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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