Riddles in the Downs

[The Might]

I have another idea...maybe the Star of Earendil? It seems to fit the riddle better then my last guess.

[Elmo]

no wrong again sorry keep trying you seem to be the expert at these riddles

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'll have a try. What about Lórien?

[Elmo]

no wrong again i can't give you a clue because i don't want to spoil it

[The Might]

The reflection part is hard, because it can be interpreted in many ways
And the direction part is also not very clear...good riddle

Maybe it could be a Silmaril...they might be considered a reflection of the Light of the Trees...

[Elmo]

wrong

[The Might]

hmm...I wonder what it could be

I've got another idea...the Elessar

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by The Might

hmm...I wonder what it could be

I've got another idea...the Elessar

Why, the Elessar, again?

I'd say mallorn tree? Like a "reflection" of the Trees of Valinor?

[The Might]

well, if you do look through it you see things green and fair, and the Elessar given to Aragorn could be considered a reflection of the original one

[Elmo]

sorry lads no one's got it right sofar its quite simple - its something that influences many characters throughout Toklien's work

[The Might]

the Sea perhaps?

[Gil-Galad]

The One Ring perhaps?

seeing how it is a reflection of Sauron's spirit... and every "fair" folk has been moved by this ring

[Elmo]

Congratulations, the Mighty!!! It is the Sea

[The Might]

nice...but I don't like making riddles...

In ages past
In the middle of the world
It surrounded an important island
Or so it was told

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'd say the Great Lake around the island of Almaren.

[The Might]

I really have to find better ones...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm as dark as night,
I run far from light,
spell is upon me
as you will now see.
You'll beat me, I know
but I bring the woe:
your friend is now lost,
but that was the cost.

Well, this is not one of my "standard" riddles (not so specific), but I try to put in whatever comes to my mind so that you don't have to wait too long. I hope you enjoy it.

[Gil-Galad]

Sounds like the Nazgultoo me...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

In the case of this riddle, you should also clarify what do you think the riddle parts refer to...

...for others: by this, I am not saying that Gil-Galad is right, you can keep trying...

...actually, let's make this clear: Gil-Galad is not right I expected the Nazgul to be among the first guesses, but it's not right. But furthermore, please, try to be more specific of what do you think the riddle refers to (e.g. "I am dark as night = Nazgul is really dark"). Then I could easily explain to you why you are wrong

[Gil-Galad]

well i thought it was obvious at how the nazgul could relate and it did not need explaining, but if you need it legate then i guess i have too

I'm as dark as night, - nazgul is dark
I run far from light, - nazgul is scared by gandalfs light of istari
spell is upon me - bound by the ring
as you will now see. - they serve sauron, all see it
You'll beat me, I know - they get killed but coem back
but I bring the woe: - they hunt down anyone in their way
your friend is now lost, - use to be kings of men
but that was the cost. - cost of losing their soul


now for my second guess, i'm going with Sauron

I'm as dark as night, - Sauron has always been referred to as dark
I run far from light, - escaped when Valar came
spell is upon me - bound by the one rin
as you will now see. - his spirit( great eye) lingers
You'll beat me, I know - lidless eye sees all?
but I bring the woe: - causes greif to other "good" kingdoms
your friend is now lost, - was once a maiar of Aule
but that was the cost. - left his past life to join Melkor

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, one thing first - if you are bothered, Gil-Galad, you don't have to put the exegesis in here, only if you wanted me to show you on this why your answer is wrong - it would be a bonus for you, not for me, since you could possibly learn from the mistakes you made. And I could also get a better picture of what you are stuck at if I wanted to post a hint.

Second, you made another valiant attempt, but again, sorry, Sauron is not the right answer. I think the error you made in both your guesses was not to take the riddle as a whole. If you rewrite it into prose, these are actual sentences spoken out by the "answer". I might include a hint in this place - the "answer" talks to "you": and this "you" is the same "you" in the whole riddle. Thus, if, according to your second explanation, "your friend is now lost" would mean Sauron as Aulë's friend, then e.g. the line "you'll beat me, I know" would also have to refer to Aulë. And as far as we know, it was not Aulë who has beaten Sauron (not even during the War of Wrath).

Anyway, keep trying, the riddle, in the end, is not very hard... or at least I think so

[The Might]

I would have to say...Draugluin
Sorry for the lack of explanations, but I have no time

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

No problem. It's wrong

Any other attempts? Or a request for another hint?

[The Might]

Maybe the Witch-king?

I'm as dark as night, - just like other Nazgul
I run far from light, - they all didn't like light
spell is upon me - spell of Sauron
as you will now see. - dunno what to say here
You'll beat me, I know - the prophecy about his death
but I bring the woe: - clear
your friend is now lost, - perhaps Theoden
but that was the cost.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I have to disappoint you, unfortunately, for one more time - but these are all valiant attempts, hope is never lost, as we know from the Professor's work! The answer is not correct, but I bring a gleam of good hope for those who are doomed to use their own brains I'll use the thing you mentioned in your post, TM: "as you will now see" has its meaning as well, and quite important in this case (it is not there just to make a rhyme). Try to put it together with the rest of the riddle.

And, one more hint. The words "I run far from light" can have more than one interpretation. This is the beauty of English language. [cryptic-looking smilie needed]

[Gil-Galad]

I'm as dark as night,
I run far from light,
spell is upon me
as you will now see.
You'll beat me, I know
but I bring the woe:
your friend is now lost,
but that was the cost.


hmm... i have many ideas that all fit... but again with legates emphasis on interpating the meanings they are lost... but i shall list them, if any are right, then i will explain them

Frodo
Angalcon(sorta)
Maeglin


the "you'll beat me, i know" part keeps me wondering... i first thought of Malbeth the Seer, but then i think of Aragorn...and when i think of aragorn i think of Boromir, so

Aragorn
Boromir

ask me to explain any of them legate, i will, for now i shall just post them and let you say yes or no

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

no
no
no

no
no

So, only if it seemed that you don't know why something of it is not right, post it and I'll explain. Otherwise, I can only advise you to try to find an answer which fits well with all the things in the riddle (as always).

P.S. And for everyone: if any of you thinks he is on track (or thinks he is totally out of track) and wants a hint, please ask for it, because I don't want to spoil it to you by telling too much when you want to come to it by yourselves, and on the other hand, I don't want you to drown in puzzles when you'd appreciate a hint.

[Shards of Narsil]

Could it be Morgoth, and the "you" refer to Hurin or Turin?

I'm as dark as night - Morgoth was dark, bad, etc.
I run far from light - always stayed hidden in Thangorodrim
spell is upon me - he is right now cast into the void, he could also cast a spell
as you will now see - Hurin could "see" the results of Morgoth's curse
you'll beat me I know - the prophesy of Turin beating Morgoth in the final battle
but I bring the woe - exactly
your friend is now lost - could refer to Huor if its Hurin, or Beleg if it's Turin, although Huor was actually Hurin's brother, not friend
but that was the cost - not sure, maybe this line just completes the rhyme.

[mhagain]

May I guess Gurthang?

I'm as dark as night, - black sword, obviously
I run far from light, - I don't get this bit
spell is upon me - it's obviously enchanted by Eol, as it could talk
as you will now see. - filler stuff
You'll beat me, I know - it eventually broke
but I bring the woe: - while killing Turin
your friend is now lost, - obvious reference to Beleg
but that was the cost. - generic reference to Turin's doom

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I welcome every valiant riddler to this riddling contest!

But unfortunately, for both of you, I am sorry to disappoint you, but neither of your answers is correct. I think the main mistake everyone makes here is to skip something saying "this is here probably just to fill the gaps". Everything has its place here. If there were anything you could possibly ignore, it would be the words "I know" (at the end of "you'll beat me, I know"). These are there mainly for the rhyme, are not important for the riddle, but also are not contradictory to the riddle. They just don't matter. (well, this might maybe help someone)

But besides that,
EVERY SINGLE WORD IN THE RIDDLE HAS ITS PLACE THERE.
Some more important, some less, but if it contradicts your theories about the answer, you can bet that it's the answer, and not the riddle, which is wrong.

[mhagain]

Alright then, I'm going out on a limb and guessing that it's Luthien's Hair Addressing The Two Remaining Silmarils In The Iron Crown

I'm as dark as night, - Luthien had dark hair
I run far from light, - her hair obviously ended up very far from light
spell is upon me - she enchanted her hair
as you will now see. - and wasn't afraid to demonstrate the fact
You'll beat me, I know - she eventually died on account of her fairness when wearing the Silmaril burned her out
but I bring the woe: - which she did to Thingol
your friend is now lost, - the Silmaril they stole
but that was the cost. - the cost of beating her

This riddle is actually very very enjoyable.

[Gil-Galad]

i'll post after your anwser to Mhagins...

i like how you made it rhyme, but i personally dislike it mainly because it thrwos everyone off, if it rhymes or not it doesn't matter, every thing in that riddle must apply to it or else all it is is just a poem referring to something.


so that rhymed part at end threw most(i think all) of us off, but now we know that it doesn't apply to the riddle we should get closer...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, it does not contradict the riddle as I said, only it is not advisable to focus on this too much. This might happen in any riddle - you might just focus on some part of the riddle which is not that much important as some other, and therefore take it from the wrong end. Since I know the answer, if I dug deeper into it, I might say that it actually is correct, but I think no one will solve the riddle by focusing on this. So, sorry if I confused someone, and now it would be better to just ignore it.

Yes, and mhagain - very interesting idea, I'd never have thought of it, and quite inventive. But not correct, sorry. On the other hand, since your interpretation is completely different from what we have seen here thus far, you have broken some stereotypes in interpretation of this riddle, so I think your attempt was very good.

I'm sure we are closing to the solution.

[mhagain]

Cheers!

I have a fairly good idea what it is (quite obvious when I think about it), but I'll wait until Gil-Galad replies.

[Gil-Galad]

i am lost for now my dear Mhagin, you may post your anwser

[mhagain]

Okey dokey.

I think the answer has at least a decent chance of being... The Mines of Moria.

I don't really think much explanation is required for this one.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A brilliant thought, mhagain! Only two things:

Do the mines of Moria really run?

and

What spell is upon them?

If you have any clarification of this for me and you feel it should be right, please tell me so that it wouldn't seem that I am grudging. Otherwise, it's pretty good guess. You are on the right track. I'd now recommend you to stay on it and focus on these two lines I mentioned. When you find the right way to interpretate them, you solve the riddle.

[mhagain]

Cheers.

"Run" is obviously one of these words that can be interpreted many ways. A river can run, mines can run underground, and so on. See also http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/run - definitions 39 to 42.

The "Spell" is - of course - "Speak (say) friend and enter".

If it's not the answer you had in mind, that's fair enough, let's prolong the enjoyment!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yeah, let's prolong it. I'm eagerly awaiting further guesses.

But now seeing your explanation, it is not that far. Only I would be reluctant in the "spell" part, because the spell certainly is not upon "me" (Moria) but just on the door. Which, in this scale you present (with "your friend lost" and all), is of almost no importance.

But you are really a skilled riddler, I favour you this.

[Shards of Narsil]

I am a poor riddler, so I must live vicariously through others. It seems that mhagain is 'close but not quite'. As mhagain has drawn first blood, I am now just a shark waiting for an opportunity to bite. I now have that opportunity.

To continue along these lines, would the answer be Durins' Bane? I would say that a Balrog would fit the 'run far from light' line that Legate mentioned. As well, Morgoth originally controlled these beings, so that may be construed as a spell.

Any way, that's my shot.