T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[Beregond]

I can't believe I've spent so much time reading through, and I feel more muddled than ever. At any rate, I gave up reading through to the end, so I'm going to ignore a page and post before it's too late. I apologize in advance if I forget to bold any names or make other mistakes. I typed this in a notepad and have to make adjustments after.

I'm not really more muddled though...not quite... I'm starting to agree with the idea of Fea being guilty, though I wanted to be skeptical. I'm also not letting Mac off the hook. So, in otherwords, I'm agreeing with popular opinion. Hmn.



*******

Responding to Legate:

Like Rikae said, the red herring is just a figure of speech. I didn't even know you were a herring, though now I recall seeing it somewhere.

And no offense taken, calling me a newbie, although you also say I could be using it for a cloak. Well, I may have been, but I'm trying to avoid it now.

*******



So again in no particular order:


Sally: I keep hearing "Sally is just being Sally" which is very unhelpful, since I don't know Sally. But I don't have an opinion on her innocence. Like Dury, I just don't know, so wouldn't vote.

Legate: doing his best to seem innocent by being very helpful - I'm buying it still. I really hope he isn't evil, because he's making a lot of sense.

Mira: I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt on the Dury vote - she's Fea's friend, right? And her first game - don't blame her for wanting to keep Fea alive. But all 5 Dury voters do need extra-careful watching.

Lari: Including Lari. She was the first to question Fea's guilt, then not long after:

Originally Posted by Lari

Now if we were to try to lynch Fea toDay, I'd be more for it than anyone else(unless maybe Mac or Rikae because, well, Mac has been sort of saved twice now and some of Rikae's posts are making me wonder)

...which Mac pointed out. But I think it's acceptable that she was just trying to make sure all sides of the story were examined, because up to that point Fea didn't have many supporters. And then wanted to clarify that she in fact does find Fea suspicious.


Agan: I don't really like to comment on her argument with Lommy, except that it WAS public. I don't know them well enough, but it occurred to me, and Lari after, that it might be a good means of "separation" if they were both wraiths.

Lommy: same.

Rune: not seeming so innocent anymore after last Day. Then again, his defending Fea is almost too obvious, for a wraith. Good explanation by him too. Don't know what to think.

Nerwen: excellent chronology of the passing of Durelin! Good contribution, going the extra mile, makes her look less suspicious, which could be a cunning plan. But I had no reason of my own to suspect her before, and I still don't. I thank her for that post!

Mac: good first post. If you're innocent I can accept your explanation for the vote. And point taken about putting my list in late! However, I didn't vote for you the first two days for nothing, and I'm still watching you. May go through posts again to see if I can find more to support my gut, because if you are a wraith, and Fea is Ferny, I'd be more disposed to get rid of a wraith. I just think Fea may be more obvious right now.

Menel: waaaaaay under the rader - could be anything at all. Like Sally.

Rikae: strikes me as innocent still. Or VERY devious. Possible.

Brinn: Got nothing on her except her reputation as being a wraith when people have nothing on her.

Greenie: also under the radar (at least, my radar - I'd forgot to add her to the list - sorry Greenie!) Hasn't done anything since yesterday to make me suspect her more than I did.


Am I forgetting someone? Yes, Fea...


So it looks like the question of the day is this: is Fea really guilty?

I'm going to try to break it down a bit.

Well, I didn't suspect Fea yesterDay, though others did, obviously more aware of her apparent guiles than I. When Fea asked about Rikae's seer-joke it didn't seem suspicious to me, because, well, I did it too. Not so good for me. But I still don't find that particular incident suspicious. Not that I would know, I suppose.

People agreed about Fea's guilt to varying extents. But there was argument over why:


Nog's death could affect Fea in (at least) two ways:

1. It places more suspicion on the other Dury the Innocent voters, because Nog was innocent, so surely one or more of the other voters was guilty? And Fea stands out, having (I gather) a reputation; being the first to vote.

2. Since Nog was wrong, and he was a good guy, then maybe the other Dury voters are good guys too.

My initial reaction was that the other voters became even more suspicious, especially since, although he pointed out Dury's IC comments, Nog was the last to vote, and even considered voting for Fea himself. So the Dury bandwagon wasn't necessarily all his doing.

Option 2 is possible as well, but the real question is which conclusion Fea would have counted on people having, were she a wraith?

And if she were Ferny, then do we even know if there's a relation between Nog's death and Fea at all? We've been assuming that Ferny is known by the wraiths. Why? If Fea were Ferny and the wraiths didn't know her, then Nog's death neither makes Fea innocent nor guilty.

Which leaves me very confused.

So what other things make Fea guilty or suspicious?

The fact that Rune stuck up for her, even before it seemed she needed it. This would only apply if Rune was also an evil one.
That her "vote post" may have started a bandwagon.
Claimed to vote Dury to save Mac; also claimed she didn't expect anyone else to vote with her; said (roughly) it didn't hurt to try anyway.
Like Legate said: Fea should not have talked about gifteds (even I knew not to discuss the ranger, or who Frodo might be, even if I reply to Rikae when she called herself the seer in jest).


******


Regarding late voting: to be late, or to be early.

I think it's good to wait till later to see what might develop, so that one doesn't throw one's vote away if it could be used better. The danger, of course, is being accused of jumping on the bandwagon simply because others voted before you. Or of late-night frenzies as we saw last time, with people scrambling to make the deadline (woah, appropriate word), and maybe not having time to think properly.

I'm going to try to vote earlier today. But I have the luxury of not having to go to bed too soon, so I'll watch what happens, just must get mine in before the deadline.



Gaaaaaah, I don't know if I'll read the rest of the posts tonight.

[Nerwen]

Macalaure.

I don't know what to think about him. His posts don't overall feel particularly evil... but he's said some pretty odd things that may or may not be wolf-slips. I think he originated the notion that Fea was framed... and Fea has been supporting him– so knowing her role may shed light on his. (Edit: though not so much if she's just a cobbler, since I don't see how the wraiths would know for sure.)

Lariren Shadow

Once thing I'm surprised about is that no-one has commented on Lari's posts about the Ranger (#462) and Ferny (#494).
As it is quite impossible that a Wraith Shadow wouldn't know this stuff by now, these comment are either proof of innocence, or a deliberate attempt to play dumb. There's nothing in between.

The question is, which seems more likely?

EDIT: X'd with a host. Added comment for clarification.

[Lariren Shadow]

Rikae -> Fea
Lily -> Fea
Lommy -> Sally
Aganzir -> Fea
Legate -> Fea
Rune -> Mac
Mac -> Lari
Nerwen -> Fea
Miri -> Rune
Menel -> Mac

Fea 5, Mac 2, Sally 1, Lari 1, and Rune 1

I'm ready to change that.

Thinking it over I have three people I would vote for.

Fea: For the reasons that she is guilty because she generally is assumed guilty. But she's not acting like she did the last time she was accused of being guilty. She fully admitted it then. I know she said that her style changes, but if we go by horoscopes then she should be proclaiming to the world that she is evil. Then again mine says I should love travel, the outdoors, freedom, justice, honest, and straightforward, while still being blindly optimistic and restless. Who knows?

Rune: I don't like how he assumes that people should know how he plays. I get it if other people think he's playing as he usually does, but his whole thing is rubbing me the wrong way. I just don't like it. And if what I found was a clue then I'm inclinded to think he's guilty. He seems to like picking fights with other players to throw suspicion on them(Brinn the first day and then Miri toDay).

Mac: He's been making lists that show very few people guilty(like the last one was two). In the last game I seem to remember him being more observant than that. Given there was a lot more of sort of obvious acting out then, but I still think that its a little strange to only incriminate two people on Day 3 and not have a good idea about others.

So my vote is:

++Mac

I really don't think Fea is acting like a guilty party considering her later posts. It seems more like her to proclaim guilt than innocences right now.

I still don't like how Rune looks, but I'm tired, still need to read about why Feudalism should not even be a concept, and have no more energy to defend myself.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Beregond

(even I knew not to discuss the ranger, or who Frodo might be, even if I reply to Rikae when she called herself the seer in jest).

Repeat after me, kids: "If something exists, it is fair game to discuss."

Rikae -> Fea
Lily -> Fea
Lommy -> Sally
Aganzir -> Fea
Legate -> Fea
Rune -> Mac
Mac -> Lari
Nerwen -> Fea
Mirandir -> Rune
Menel -> Mac
Lari -> Mac

Fea 5, Mac 3, Sally 1, Lari 1, Rune 1

++Mac

*feels heart break just a wee bit*

I didn't want to do that, but I also don't want to die.

So now-

Rikae -> Fea
Lily -> Fea
Lommy -> Sally
Aganzir -> Fea
Legate -> Fea
Rune -> Mac
Mac -> Lari
Nerwen -> Fea
Mirandir -> Rune
Menel -> Mac
Lari -> Mac
Fea -> Mac

Fea 5, Mac 4, Sally 1, Lari 1, Rune 1

[Brinniel]

I have a headache and I still have readings to do for class which I'd prefer to finish not too late. And there's really no reason not to vote now since I'm already decided.

++Fea

Anyway, her behaviour still reminds me of how she acted last time she was a cobbler-like character.

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Repeat after me, kids: "If something exists, it is fair game to discuss."

Um, no, I don't buy that... sorry, Fea, you'll have to convince some already-voteds if you want to stick around.


++Fea


My reasons: Some are listed in my previous post. Although I'm very tempted to vote for Mac, I don't think he's the most obvious choice toDay - nor do I think that vote could be swung, now - though if a wraith he would be a better choice, if Fea wasn't looking so guilty.

Even if Fea is innocent we'll have a better idea of where some people stand, once we know her role. In fact if she's innocent it would look pretty bad for a few... but I don't think that's the case (and wouldn't vote for her if I thought so).

Unfortunately if she's the cobbler we won't be certain that wraiths didn't vote against her - both with the sacrifice theory and the fact that Ferny and Wraiths may not know each other.

But I've weighed the options, time will judge!


By the way, where is everyone? I guess people go to bed earlier on the weekdays? I thought this would be another late night post-party. Kinda glad it isn't.

[Nerwen]

And now Mac is back in the running... and, equally, knowing his role would cast light on Fea's.

So... do I retract and vote the possible wraith instead of the probable Ferny?

By the way, I wasn't thinking clearly before: actually, one of Mac's possible wolf-slips, if that's what they were, was that he seemed to know that the wraiths knew Ferny's identity. I can't find the quote, though.

X'd since Brinniel and Beregond.

[Nerwen]

And then, of course, what does Fea's voting Mac, but defending him previously, signify? If she's the cobbler, then it seems she's only guessing at the wolves' identity. Besides, I really don't know how they would have communicated.

My head hurts.

[Beregond]

I know, it's a tough call.

I think only Sally hasn't voted. And you can expect Mac to change his vote from Lari if needed (I was surprised he didn't go for Fea, because he seemed to think her guilty enough).

[satansaloser2005]

A bit of a mish mash, but here are some thoughts.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Angels
Legate - still gives me no reason to suspect himself, seems sharp, honest and open. Actually, the only thing that troubles me about him is that he doesn't trouble me at all...
Mac - my gut-feeling says he's innocent, after all. Besides, he has made some good points in his defense, like for example that if he really was making wolf-slips all the time, he'd be far more nervous by now.
Nerwen - I just don't suspect her.
Rikae - despite the fact that I've disagreed quite a lot with her lately, I think she's innocent.
Rune - all the "proof" I've seen points at his innocence.

Gargoyles
Aganzir - I hate to admit this, but now that I'm less annoyed with her, I'm also less suspicious of her. I'm sure she really bears watching, though.
Beregond - seems sensible, calm and smart, but maybe indeed using the newbie-shield too much? I have to say I'm not too worried, though.
Fea - throughout the game, I've had a gut-feeling that she's not a wolf. And she does have very innocent posts. On the other hand, like discussed very extensively, she's been acting really fishily. But like I've said, it's unlikely she's a wraith - whether she's ordo or Ferny, that can be debated and to that, I have no answer.
Greenie - I don't know, currently I have the feeling I can't read her but she seems ok. (See? My suspicion of her fades with the general one...)
Menel - I have to admit I let him slip under my radar. Just because he seems innocent enough.
Mira - seemed very innocent on Day1, less so on Day2. I'd like to hear more of her.

Demons
Brinniel - I know it's silly she's stuck here, but I can't help it, it's just a gut feeling that she's up to no good. I have little actual rational reasons to suspect her but I just don't trust her. And no, it's really not just because of last game.
Lari - flip-floppy and not convincing. I'm worried, though, that she might become the "easy victim" for the lynch.
sally - I have a bad feeling about her, I don't like her chipper attitude and aplogising/flip-flopping. She has said some weird stuff, some I have even commented, but I don't remember them well enough to quote them here.

If I have time toDay, I'd love to have a look at either sally or Brinn to see if there are any rational reasons to suspect them. Probably at sally because she's evaded the spotlight far more carefully than Brinn...


edit: xed with Rikae and Agan

You don't like that I'm perky and cheerful? And flip-flopping? I don't see how. (Oh, never mind I remember why she said that. Retracted, because I can see why she thought that, wrong though it may be.) Her thoughts, however, include mostly "I don't know, but they're (insert role guess) because of (insert non-existent reasoning). Not that I'm not guilty of that a lot too, but it just strikes me as strange. Also, I disagree about Rune, which I'll probably explain a bit later in another post.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Mac makes some sense throughout the Day, but I believe if anyone, he is up to impersonating a sensible innocent while being a Wolf and wishing all the worst.

Also, it is possible him offering these four options for why Shasta was killed was a way of him presenting some options to the innocents: "And now, choose, come all, come all! Do you want to believe X is a Wolf? Option #1 is just what you need! Or would you rather suspect Y? Come on, I am offering you this brand-new option #2! Go and lynch them!" etc.

The way Beregond reacted to this joke of Rikae's (her saying that she is the seer) - I don't like it. A newbie could ask if it was a joke, yes, why not, but the way he ends up thinking about it seriously... still, he is a newbie.

But what more, Fea was feeding it. She is obviously desperately trying to make the Wolves know she is on their side. Because otherwise, I cannot imagine HER - an experienced player - getting confused by somebody like Beregond (read: a newbie. No offense, Beregond) and actually questioning this obvious joke! And I do not even stop to think that Fea could even consider this a serious revelation. Come on.

And Menel actually said a good thing about this:



Which makes me think - was this an attempt from Fea to draw out the real Seer? Quite possible. Very possible.

And related, one more thing to Beregond:

I don't get this, is "red herring" any saying, or does it have anything to do with me? (You know, my role.) Like, if Berewolf could give hints to Fea Ferny, trying to communicate, like that I was the Seer, or something?

Mac's list in #326 is so "neutral" (in the sense: most people are "innocent" or "no idea about" or such), so that I can imagine it as a list of a Wolf trying to be on good terms with everyone, especially as it seems that he may be suspected by some.
(Which is, as I see, exactly what Rikae said in her post right after that.)

I have to ask, at this moment, why the heck was Mac not lynched yesterDay? At this point (where I am reading now), it looks so obvious! <= Okay, now I wrote this when I was still reading the thread, this is written when I am actually posting the post: I would not call that "so obvious" anymore, but still, he looks Wolfy enough.

And, okay, I haven't read toDay yet, but I can think of one reason (as I am reading through yesterDay) why Nog was killed: because the Wolves thought he is a Ranger. And why? Because they thought he is a Ranger and is annoyed by the fact that (according to him) Durelin was impersonating him. A normal person would not have taken Dury's "ranger impersonation" (in my opinion, and probably also in the Wolves' opinion, as I really don't get what Nog followed by that - that was really an obvious IC post) in any serious manner, but a Ranger could perhaps be more attentive and startled by that? However, it showed that Nog was not a Ranger after all. But I can imagine the scenario working like that.



Geez! And again! Okay, I don't mind when Mirandir asks about debating about the Ranger, he is a newbie. But Fea AGAIN joins in a speculation which started (by a newbie's remark) about a Gifted's role! Gifteds are not to be speculated about! They are too valuable for the village to reveal, for Eru's sake, not unless there is any good reason for them to do that! Fea is not a newbie, she should know that. SHE IS A COBBLER! There can be NO OTHER explanation.

****

My two most important conclusions of Day 2:

1. Fea is an OBVIOUS Cobbler. Informer. Bill Ferny. Whatever you call it.
2. Mac is likely a Wolf. Wraith. Whatever you call it.

These two information, unless they get relativised by what I read today, are two basic things I would like to propose in front of you to consider. I really can't see how anybody can think otherwise (about Fea at least), and how people might have voted Durelin, for mostly quite silly reasons (need to look at that once again, but in general, saving Fea makes little sense - even though of course it is better to lynch a Wraith than an Informer, though - but when she was about to go already... people were actually saving her, that's what was the worst on that).

Now onto toDay and I will be with you in the present.

Sorry, I know it's a huge quote and just a bit of reaction, but I want to know why he is so sure of these two facts. As I said before (though poorly, unfortunately) I think Mac was fairly honest in his intentions yesterDay. I realize he looked fairly suspicious, but it seems to me that he was truly just trying to save himself, and (as others have said) the wraiths could have jumped at the chance to kill Durie. Not to say that they did, but I'm pretty sure that Mac was just worried about survival. (In particular, I'm worried about Rikae, who easily could be a baddie just hiding behind a love of Mac and ice cream. )

I don't know about the Nog=ranger theory though. I don't think he would have acted the way he did if he was the ranger, so I'm thinking it was either to appear to set up Fea or just a random kill. Or to screw with us.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Legate, whew, thank goodness somebody sees through Fea. I thought I was going crazy here. I do still say a wolfish Fea can act cobblerish, though (which only makes her a more attractive lynch, of course).

Mac... well, I don't think he's Ferny, and I don't think he's an ordo. Ergo, I'll let him fight his own battles. I focus on him too much in these games.

By the way, "red herring" is a saying. It means a distracting, false hint, basically.

I was going to finish looking at Lommy, but I'm finding her more innocentish anyway.... perhaps my time would be better spent looking at Lari.

It also occurs to me that this whole crazy situation could very easily allow some wolves to put themselves in a positive light simply by being on the right side of this Fea-Dury nonsense. In fact, I suspect that's one of the main purposes of the whole fiasco.

Be back later.

Very good point. People have said that the wraiths were responsible for getting Durie killed, but they could have just as easily avoided the lynch in order to make sure they couldn't be traced by it.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

If the ringbearer is changed it will be known.

Good to know. I had the strangest dream concerning the game last Night and it involved Frodo and some really strange stuff. (Random, I know.) Anyway, I was going to check the rules but now I don't have to. Heh.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

Things that make Rune look suspicious in my opinion:

I understand wanting to keep someone around for the sake of entertainment (and we all know that Fea is an excellent source of that) but it seems like a silly reason to not vote for someone if you have actual suspicions towards them. Now, this is not saying that he had suspicions towards her, just that it's a silly reason to vote someone else.

This seems like a very newbie-ish move to me. Yes, I understand feeling a certain sense of loyalty to someone because they agreed with you. However, that is hardly an adequate reason to support them on their next Day vote. It makes it seem like you are unable to come up with justification of your own as to why someone should be killed, or that you are in an ill-hidden alliance. If the latter is the case, however, one would think that he would do a better job of at least attempting to hide it.

I agree with this, and Rune's 'defense' of his action later does nothing to dissuade me. You don't defend someone just because they agree with you. For all you know they could be playing you (or you them, as the case may be). Rune has been giving me bad vibes for a bit now and this definitely didn't help. Just because someone voted in a way that pleased you yesterDay doesn't mean you should return the favor toDay. Unless of course I'm the someone in question.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I have a question:

If I try really hard to stop doing impulsive things, can I stay alive a little longer?

I haven't refreshed in a while but I'm guessing no.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Alright, while I keep deciding who to vote for and contemplating, I would like to say that I took a leaf out of Edward's book and googled "skarn". Which means, at least in one place, "bad boy, maker of trouble". Is this a clue to what Rune is?

Doubtful, but I'd laugh if it was.


Okay, posting this so I can catch up again and get to my real thoughts instead of just reaction type stuff. Back soon~!



EDIT: x'd with a ton because my computer was being a butt so I wasn't able to do all I wanted and I'm behind again. Blast.

[satansaloser2005]

Well as stated in my above post I think Rune looks pretty dern suspicious. I'll agree that Fea has acted pretty off herself, but I also think that if Fea was a cobbler she would
A: not be quite as obvious (though that could be a x-level bluff)
B: wait until later to get herself killed (unless she thought she was saving a wolf)
C: take ownership of her cobblerism, not try to save herself



I'd rather see Fea go than Mac, of course, but my first choice would be Rune. I'm guessing that no one would want to retract and vote him? *cricket* Thought not.

[satansaloser2005]

Call it a throwaway if you like but I'm going with my instincts. If by some randomness other people decide to help me kill him, so be it. Either way I'll know that I did what I thought was best, doncha know.



++Rune



Oh, and I'm parched. Maybe Fea'll buy me a drink to say farewell?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Call it a throwaway if you like but I'm going with my instincts. If by some randomness other people decide to help me kill him, so be it. Either way I'll know that I did what I thought was best, doncha know.



++Rune



Oh, and I'm parched. Maybe Fea'll buy me a drink to say farewell?

Yes, that is a throwaway vote, Sally. We've only got a few minutes left, and Fea has about seven votes, Mac has four and Rune has only two, counting yours. Besides, I don't think Rune's guilty.

I just want to say this: Sally generally rings my alarm bells at some point during a game. To be fair, I'm often wrong about her... but for what it's worth, she's ringing them now. She seems to be making a desperate last minute attempt to save Mac and Fea. I think there's some other reasons, too, but I might not have time to pinpoint them.

EDIT: fixed bolding.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes, that is a throwaway vote, Sally. We've only got a few minutes left, and Fea has about seven votes, Mac has four and Rune has only two, counting yours. Besides, I don't think Rune's guilty.

I just want to say this: Sally generally rings my alarm bells at some point during a game. To be fair, I'm often wrong about her... but for what it's worth, she's ringing them now. She seems to be making a desperate last minute attempt to save Mac and Fea. I think there's some other reasons, too, but I might not have time to pinpoint them.

EDIT: fixed bolding.

No, I don't have a problem with Fea getting lynched. I'll admit to trying to prevent killing Mac though. Well, sort of.

And when do you not suspect me?

I think Rune's guilty. I'd have voted him no matter what time of the Day it was, so a 'desperate last minute attempt' at anything is a major misdiagnosis. Just saying.

[Beregond]

Well, it looks official. Lets go to bed! Yay!

[Kitanna]

Time! Fea's death will be up in a matter of minutes.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Beregond

Well, it looks official. Lets go to bed! Yay!

A bit bloodthirsty, are we?


EDIT: Blast. X'd with the moddess. Sorry, darling.

[Kitanna]

Fea could see her number was up. Though others were in the running, as Day drew to a close it was more obvious with every second the angry villagers would have her head. Who would care for her prize belladonnas now?

The village was quite sure Billy Ferny was masquerading as Fea. What better disguise than to be a woman? “Kill her!” An overwhelming amount of voices called out.

“There are others who are more suspicious than she.” A few other cried. But they failed to unify and vote the same. Fea was doomed.

While the village bickered and argued over what to do, the gardener moved away to say good-bye to her precious flowers. She had no intention of running off, she just wanted to see something beautiful before dying. Though she entertained the idea of running off down the road she knew they're persue, best to get it over with quickly.

“Hey!” Nerwen yelled. “Where'd she go?”

“She's over in her garden!” Rune pointed.

The villagers moved in their angry mob. Fea ignored the noise as they came closer. She just hummed to herself, tending to her flowers. Beregond picked up her hoe and swung it hard. Though the impact wasn't enough to remove Fea's head from her shoulders it was strong enough to sever her spinal cord. Blood spurted out, coating all the plants near Fea.

She fell to one side, her body twitching a little. When she had stopped moving Rikae went forward. “Let's see if Fea's really Mr. Ferny.” Rikae lifted up Fea's skirt to get a peek. Embarrassed she lowered the skirt, her face turning red. “She's not Bill Ferny.”

Fea had been innocent of any crimes.

Living
satansaloser2005
Lariren Shadow
Mirandir
Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Rikae
Aganzir
Beregond
Nerwen
Rune Son of Bjarne
Macalaure
Meneltarmacil
A Little Green
Brinniel

Dead
Kitanna – Made an example of Night 1 (moddess)
Gollum the Great – Eaten by hogs Day 1 (innocent)
Shastanis Althreduin – Forced to swallow a sword Night 2 (innocent)
Durelin – Hanged on Day 2 (innocent)
Nogrod – Disemboweled and hanged by own intestines Night 3 (innocent)
Feanor of the Peredhil – Hoed to death Day 3 (innocent)

[Kitanna]

The name Mr. Underhill couldn't be safe forever while the ringbearer was in Bree. After a few nights in Bree Mr. Underhill knew he was no longer safe. The wraiths were in the room, sniffing. The ringbearer was hiding under the bed, fingering the Ring.

They were sniffing for the ringbearer and in a moment of weakness Mr. Underhill slipped the Ring on. The wraiths shrieked and flipped the bed over. It was all over. A new threat entered the village.

Living
satansaloser2005
Lariren Shadow
Mirandir
Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Rikae
Aganzir
Beregond
Nerwen
Rune Son of Bjarne
Macalaure
Meneltarmacil
A Little Green
Brinniel

Dead
Kitanna – Made an example of Night 1 (moddess)
Gollum the Great – Eaten by hogs Day 1 (innocent)
Shastanis Althreduin – Forced to swallow a sword Night 2 (innocent)
Durelin – Hanged on Day 2 (innocent)
Nogrod – Disemboweled and hanged by own intestines Night 3 (innocent)
Feanor of the Peredhil – Hoed to death Day 3 (innocent)

[Beregond]

*written in the excitement after last lynching*

Well, I've learned a lesson from yesterDay. I don't know what the lesson is, but I've learnt it. I was pretty shocked reading Kit's narrative of Fea's untimely end. At my own hands, I might add. (by the way, Sally, I was grinning at being able to go to bed, not at Fea's imminent death) - I ain't bloodthirsty like that. And I'm not prone to wielding hoes - a madness took me! Sorry Fea.

And now what I said earlier is coming back to haunt me:

Originally Posted by Berryberegondie

Even if Fea is innocent we'll have a better idea of where some people stand, once we know her role. In fact if she's innocent it would look pretty bad for a few... but I don't think that's the case (and wouldn't vote for her if I thought so).

Well, I hope I was right, although when I wrote that I was looking for reasons to justify my choice - I didn't expect her to be innocent in fact.

The strange thing is that so many of us were wrong - even most of those who didn't vote for Fea still didn't speak out in her favour.

Well, today will be an interesting day, and no mistake.

*****

And now the ringbearer is...worse than dead. A sad day in the village.

[Rikae]

Well, I'm sure the wraiths are happy now. Not only did they get to stand by (more or less - unless Legate is one) and watch Fea be lynched, and now have Legate and I as perfect scapegoats for the next lynch, but they have Frodo as well.

Aren't we glad Frodo didn't reveal in day one or two, now? Hmm? Well, at least I get to be right about something. By the way, I'm sorry, Fea. I guess I've seen (and demonstrated) now that even "big name" players make major blunders.

I don't think I'll try speculating about who the baddies are just yet toDay. It's past 1 am, and I'm not feeling particularly confident about my wolf-hunting abilities at the moment, anyway.
I'm also not going to make much effort to defend myself against the lynch mob that will probably come after me... I said everything I had to say about why to lynch Fea yesterDay. I still think what I said made sense, and I still can't imagine what possessed Fea to start agreeing with Nog (or what possessed Nog, for that matter).

But yeah, I'm going to bed, so don't look for me until at least 9 or 10 EST. Perhaps when I come back I'll try looking for Frodo a bit... after all, although the wraiths may have just been lucky, there's a chance something in the posts led them to him.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, I'm sure the wraiths are happy now. Not only did they get to stand by (more or less - unless Legate is one) and watch Fea be lynched, and now have Legate and I as perfect scapegoats for the next lynch, but they have Frodo as well.

Rikae dear, do not despair, I think I can make their Day significantly worse. Okay, they might happy now because they get to kill the seer as I'm don't dare to hide any longer, but I'm sure they don't like two of them getting caught.

So, Brinn and Sally, my dear wraiths, I'm sorry to say, game over. And others, for heaven's sake, stop going after Mac, he's innocent (unless he's Ferny). Sadly, I cannot give you another known innocent because you killed her yesterDay.

[Thinlómien]

I was thinking whether I should reveal sooner or later and decided it doesn't make much difference, but it actually would have. Blah. Well, at least now we all have more time to go through Brinn and sally's posts and see who might the third wraith be and also speculate who could have they attacked last Night... and they might give out as much info about themselves doing that as they would have done thinking they're safe, so maybe it doesn't matter that much after all... Okay, I'm going to do some rereading now, I'm going to see who could be Brinn and sally's mate and who could they have attacked last Night (but given their rather surprising kill choices, we won't necessarily be able to make much out of it).

And lastly, in case you're interested about a chronological order (maybe it explains some of my behaviour):
Night1: Fea (because I can never read her)
Night2: Brinn (I thought it would shed light on stuff)
Night3: Mac (he was baffling everybody so much that I needed to know)
Night4: sally (she looked evil and there seemed to be a connection between her and Brinn)

I must say now already that my hats off go to Brinn, undoubtedly, I had such hard time keeping her on my suspicion list because she was acting so innocent! I had to resort to the "gut-feeling" level, as you can see...

[Nerwen]

Lommy, I thought you might be the Seer. I'm so glad to have been right about something, after yesterDay.

And apologies to Fea... all I can say is, I honestly thought I was doing the right thing.

What do you make of Sally's attack on Rune yesterDay?

[A Little Green]

Hmmm. This definitely should make for an interesting Day - Fea turning out to be innocent, Frodo switching sides and Lommy revealing as seer. I'm trying to look at those three things now.

First, Fea. The easy way would be to simply accuse people like Rikae and Legate who were heavily for her lynching. However, I'm not sure whether a wraith would like to be so noisily for lynching someone they know is innocent anyway since that might cast some suspicion on them the next Day. What I think we really need to look at is the people who slip by the flow, voicing a sufficient amount of suspicion for Fea and voting according to the general consensus. I'll see to that if I have time.

Secondly, Frodo. The thing we need to remember is that Frodo is playing a different role toDay that in the first three Days, and that might give us good hints on who s/he might be. In finding Frodo, it is important to compare people's posts to what they have posted earlier.

Thirdly, Lommy. (Well, her posting at least has certainly changed from yesterDay. ) I'm inclined to believe her claim for now, it looks honest and kind of makes sense. She'd be a very bold wraith to do that, since if Sally and Brinn were innocent she'd get caught pretty soon and if they were her fellows she'd lose two wolf buddies for the sake of gaining the village's trust (and even then we might start wondering why she doesn't die at Night). Of course there is one wolf more toDay than there has been and all that, so toDay would be the perfect chance for a seer-impersonator wraith to come out. Even then, it wouldn't make much sense for a not-at-all-suspected wraith-Lommy to do such a stunt. Of course she could be Ferny trying to provoke the real seer from hiding, but it doesn't look like a probable move. I'm inclined to believe Lommy's claim for now. I just want to turn every stone and check through every possibility, just in case.


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen. (This is becoming a habit.)

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Lommy, I thought you might be the Seer. I'm so glad to have been right about something, after yesterDay.

I figured some people would - I thought I was being pretty obvious so in fact I was surprised to find myself alive toDay.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

What do you make of Sally's attack on Rune yesterDay?

Well, I have thought Rune innocent pretty much all the time, I wonder if I should reconsider. After all, he and Brinn could have staged their fight on Day1... But still it maybe looks a bit unlikely. I don't know, I should check sally's attack before saying more. In any case, it is interesting how all sally, Lari and Mira attacked Rune yesterDay, I'm sure it's worth having a look at.

Originally Posted by Greenie

First, Fea. The easy way would be to simply accuse people like Rikae and Legate who were heavily for her lynching. However, I'm not sure whether a wraith would like to be so noisily for lynching someone they know is innocent anyway since that might cast some suspicion on them the next Day. What I think we really need to look at is the people who slip by the flow, voicing a sufficient amount of suspicion for Fea and voting according to the general consensus. I'll see to that if I have time.

Agreed. And I would also look at those defending her - that would be an ideal position for a wraith too. But we should also maybe look at it from the angle that the wraiths too could have thought her to be Ferny, maybe...?

I just got a weird gut-feeling (err not like those *coughseerishcough* "gut-feelings" mentioned in my yesterDay's summary ) that Legate is Frodo. Interesting.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh my, well, as you can see, even the best players (meaning myself, of course) can make mistakes. But really, I was so convinced that Fea must be some Cobbler - I mean, how comes? She behaved really unbelievably sillily (in my opinion).

And now Lommy says Mac is innocent. Okay. Had she not said it, I would have tried, with all my authority (that has been severely damaged after yesterDay's lynch), to lynch him. Now that undermines my trust in my opinions in this game being right even more. But whatever. I can still do something. Maybe.

As for Lommy's claim. I believe you, because I think it fits. I was actually wondering about that yesterDay, when you voted sally - I only thought you perhaps may have dreamt of sally before, and thus were voting her. But in that case, I would be surprised if the Wolves did not target you. I am still a bit surprised. But then, perhaps they were so sure who Frodo is that they decided to get him before he can reveal? If that is the case, they must be better than we are - for at least when it comes to myself, I have no idea who that might be.

Okay, while one may be worried whether Lommy is not an impersonator after all, I am going to give it a shot, not get too overcomplicated and just believe her. There is nothing better for me to do now. And even if you are impersonator, Lommy, it will be known after toDay, if we lynch let's say sally. Let's also hope a Ranger may protect you this Night and thus, you get another dream.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I just got a weird gut-feeling (err not like those *coughseerishcough* "gut-feelings" mentioned in my yesterDay's summary ) that Legate is Frodo. Interesting.

But I can assure you I am not.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Brinn on Day1

ToDay I will not vote for:
Legate (got lynched early last game he was in)
Rikae (I think it's been a while since she's played)
Nogrod (I helped get him lynched last game and I don't think he'll ever forgive me if I vote for him on Day 1 again )
Beregond (newbie)
Mirandir (newbie)
Meneltarmacil (I'm tired of seeing him always die so early in the game)
Durelin (I don't recall her playing for awhile)

It would be so easy for her to slip a fellow in here... you know, my ww experience tells me there's probably a fellow of hers here, but on the other hand, it would be actually smarter of her not to put any fellows there... so I should just ignore this list even though it kind of haunts me.

I think Rune and Brinn's fight looks a bit too ugly for a staged wolf-on-wolf. (Or is it actually so ugly it can't be real? Hmmm...)

Originally Posted by Menel

Oh well. Nogrod, Aganzir, and Brinniel all seem to be making sense to me thus far and I'm not voting for them.

Hmmm I'd actually have another look at Menel, possibly.

Originally Posted by Rikae

At the risk of reminding everyone of the infamous Legate-wagon from the last game:
Brinn's worrying me a bit, too. It's not the defensiveness; innocents can be very defensive, sometimes more than wolves (call it righteous indignation, I guess) - it's the fact that she's encouraging Frodo to play in such a way as to make a more useful addition to the wraith team.

Joining the chorus of Brinn-suspectors with new evidence at this point makes her look really innocent.

Lari forgot Brinn from a list of hers which points to her being an innocent or an extra sneaky wolf. It makes me feel better about her.

Originally Posted by Rikae

On another note, perhaps we should just lynch Sally. Every time I read one of her posts, I get stuck in this loop of "She looks so evil! But she's just being Sally! But she looks SOOO evil! But she always looks evil!" - very distracting, at least.

Would a wolf-Rikae say this about a wolf-sally? I don't think it would even occur to her, probably...

Gandhi and Mira worry me a little. I would not be surprised to have one newbie wolf in this game. But actually Gandhi looks better because he was not sure that Rikae was unserious, if he was a wolf, he'd have known she's joking because he'd have known Mac's not a wolf.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Rune: Of course I don't like how he's attacked me, but he's always had this negative attitude towards me and while yesterDay it was more intense than I ever recall it being, I don't think it necessarily points to guilt. If anything, it's more likely innocent behaviour, but then again I've never seen Rune play a wolf so I honestly don't know how he would behave as one.

I think this more or less exonerates Rune - I don't see the point in a wolf-on-wolf fight that ends so easily and is not about suspicion but about being offended of each other's comments.

Originally Posted by Brinn

The List:
Suspicious
Sally
Fea
Greenie
Watching
Legate
Nerwen
Aganzir
No Clue
Lari
Mira
Rikae
Beregond
Mac
Menel
Innocent
Lommy
Nogrod
Durelin

This makes me feel better about Greenie. I don't think it's probable Brinn would put both her fellows to the same - and most suspicious! - category so early in the game (Day2).

I wonder if an Aganwolf would go on and do an exonerating analysis of Brinnwolf...?

If someone's a wolf in the Dury-wagon, I think it's Mira.

I have an idea or two about Frodo's identity, but I'm not sharing them, at least not now.


edit: xed with Legate

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I figured some people would - I thought I was being pretty obvious so in fact I was surprised to find myself alive toDay.

Well, possibly the wraiths thought they had such a good line to Frodo that it was worth ignoring you– or, for that matter, they could have wrongly thought they'd found the Seer, though I don't know who would have looked more Seerish than you at that point. Or we might have some evil politics going on, like in Fea's game.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Well, I have thought Rune innocent pretty much all the time, I wonder if I should reconsider. After all, he and Brinn could have staged their fight on Day1...

Well, it's a common enough tactic, and had the effect of making Brinn look like an injured innocent... but it didn't feel staged to me. And yet Sally's attack on him ought to mean something.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And I would also look at those defending her - that would be an ideal position for a wraith too. But we should also maybe look at it from the angle that the wraiths too could have thought her to be Ferny, maybe...?

It wouldn't surprise me; she certainly looked like Ferny. I'm not sure what difference that would make, though, except that maybe they'd be less willing to stick their necks out (wraiths have necks, right?)

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I just got a weird gut-feeling (err not like those *coughseerishcough* "gut-feelings" mentioned in my yesterDay's summary ) that Legate is Frodo. Interesting.

Regarding Frodo– Brinn spent Day One going on and on and on about Frodo and what his motivations might be and what Frodo could do if he wanted to help the wraiths out *wink**wink*...etc.

I wonder if it's worth noting what her advice actually was and seeing if anyone appears to have followed it. It might take too long, though.

EDIT: X'd with Legate and Lommy.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, I'm sure the wraiths are happy now. Not only did they get to stand by (more or less - unless Legate is one) and watch Fea be lynched, and now have Legate and I as perfect scapegoats for the next lynch, but they have Frodo as well.

I assume that you knew the risks by attacking a person so agressivly as did. . .

Personaly I don't think it makes Legate look as the obvious scapegoat, he was more after Mac than Fea, but of course we have just learned that Mac is innocent.

Anyways I won't be around much today, it is my mothers birthday so I will be gone most of the day and I cannot stay up all night until deadline because I have to take care of my brother tomorrow.(he is sick)

I will make a post of more substans before I leave.

[Nerwen]

In answer to my own question: no, all Brinniel does is say that a would-be wraith Frodo would do best to play the part of a loyal but inconspicuous villager– basically to fly under the radar. And we don't know if Frodo took her advice anyway.

[Aganzir]

Grr Brinn I will never ever trust you again no matter how innocent you look!

I'm happy Mac is revealed innocent because it makes my life a lot easier. Or actually it doesn't because I just came up with an uncomfortable scenario. But at least he isn't a wraith.

Greenie's assuring she believes Lommy's claim for now looks a bit weird. I don't know, it's just the way she systematically brings up things; Lommy would be a bold wolf to do that, but then again... Today would be the perfect time to impersonate the seer, but then again... She could be Ferny, but then again... And in the end she kind of apologies for trying to make us feel worse about Lom.

Originally Posted by Green

I'm inclined to believe Lommy's claim for now. I just want to turn every stone and check through every possibility, just in case.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, possibly the wraiths thought they had such a good line to Frodo that it was worth ignoring you

That wouldn't make sense. I think it'd be more important to kill the seer first and concentrate on finding Frodo only afterwards. Either the wolves didn't figure she was the seer or had a reason to leave her alive, which seems unlikely given that she was suspecting at least two of them.

I'll make the case against Mira again at some point. Not right now because I don't have enough time, but during this day.
I'd also like to have a look at Lari.

As for yesterday...

While it's true Fea's innocence looks bad for Rikae and Legate, also Fea looked quite evil, so for now I'm not going to hold it against them.

Originally Posted by Mira

If you can't come up with a valid justification for a vote, then don't make one.

And if you don't vote for two days in a row, you get modkilled. I think a random vote is better than to risk getting killed the following day if something happens that keeps you from voting.

Argh I should probably just go take a nap or I'll be totally useless also later.
The good thing is, though, that today was my last schoolday (now there are only some exams left, the most important of which are not even close yet). This means I'll be much less stressed and might actually have time to play properly.

Now I want to have a quick look at the previous days' voting.

[Macalaure]

12 votes in 3 days and yet alive - and now I will probably be wraith-killed soon. What an end.

And I was so looking forward to feuding with Legate toDay.

When I read that Frodo was turned I was going to do the "told ya" thing about the importance of lynching a wraith early. Now that we do have two of them, it looks a lot better. We also have two Days to contemplate who the third original wraith is, and by the end of that time span, Fraitho has probably done something to incriminate himself.

Wait... the wraiths probably went after somebody who looked seerish. Maybe we can find a lead to Frodo by looking at who looked seerish yesterDay. Then again, with Brinn and Sally high on her list with little reason, who looked more seerish than our actual seer? Well, we'll see.

As a quasi-known innocent I should try to give a lot of input toDay. I'll be away for some time and I'm still sick, but I'll give my best.

[Rikae]

This is good news! Nice work, Lommy, and I think you did the right thing (sure, revealing after Brinn and Sally had a chance to talk a little would have been slightly better, but they've already done quite a bit of talking while thinking they were safe).
I thought the wraiths would have used the Durelin-wagon to their advantage, and so they did.
I hope Brinn's edgy posts of Day 1 were genuine, and not a wraithish plot, since that would be quite un-sporting. (I've been accused of that type of play, but I never actually did it. Wolves have feelings, too!)

Originally Posted by Lommy

I think Rune and Brinn's fight looks a bit too ugly for a staged wolf-on-wolf. (Or is it actually so ugly it can't be real? Hmmm...)

The latter possibility reminds me of the time Legate's attempt to distance himself from me as a fellow wolf led innocent Mac to send a PM scolding Legate for being mean to me.

Hm, well, one thing I just want to point out at the moment is that, although he's obviously no lynch target for the next couple Days, we shouldn't discount the possibility that Mac is indeed Ferny. I know I said he wasn't, but that was largely based on his failure to pick up my hints that I was a wraith who had been given his name. But on second thought, Mac doesn't tend to be one to look very hard for hints. Fact is, he did engage in Fernyish behavior and is worth keeping an eye on.

Both of us have to go run some errands this morning, so we won't be around for a while (plus, my semester's started, so I won't be participating as much as before from now on, anyway. Guess I'll lose the highest-post-count, then. Oh well.)

EDIT: X'd with Mac.

[Rikae]

I just remembered something else I wanted to say about Mac - the reason I think he's worth mentioning at all: he hasn't behaved like an ordo. He's been far more careful than he is as one (and yes, I think he's careful in spite of the celebrated "slips", which were more like hints. That politeness Legate mentioned, I guess.)

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Agan

Greenie's assuring she believes Lommy's claim for now looks a bit weird. I don't know, it's just the way she systematically brings up things; Lommy would be a bold wolf to do that, but then again... Today would be the perfect time to impersonate the seer, but then again... She could be Ferny, but then again... And in the end she kind of apologies for trying to make us feel worse about Lom

That post looked a bit fishy to me, too. Although Greenie as an earlier wolf companion to Sally and Brinn doesn't seem really likely, could she be Frodo?

That reminds me - I thought Agan Frodoish early on. Better take another look.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

That wouldn't make sense. I think it'd be more important to kill the seer first and concentrate on finding Frodo only afterwards. Either the wolves didn't figure she was the seer or had a reason to leave her alive, which seems unlikely given that she was suspecting at least two of them.

That's what I thought as well. The thing that makes sense to me besides what you said is only that they would have spotted Frodo, been very certain of him, and decided to kill (wraithise) him before he can reveal to the village.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

12 votes in 3 days and yet alive - and now I will probably be wraith-killed soon. What an end.

Mac, you are still looking horribly sinister to me, had I not had the word that you are innocent, believe me, I would have suggested lynching you again. You are behaving horribly fishi-ly. However, after yesterDay, I am not that worried about it, as my suspicions seem to mislead me in this game completely

EDIT: x-ed with all Rikaes

[Rikae]

Oh, jeez. I shouldn't have said what I did above. Now I've gone and messed up our chances of the wraiths making a mistake. Rikae = doof.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Rikae

That post looked a bit fishy to me, too. Although Greenie as an earlier wolf companion to Sally and Brinn doesn't seem really likely, could she be Frodo?

Yeah that's what occurred to me as well.

Anyway I've been looking at the voting but don't really know what I'm trying to achieve, apart from looking at the first day bandwagon where Brinn could have been lynched. I'm not nearly done yet but I have to leave now. So much for napping.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I hope Brinn's edgy posts of Day 1 were genuine, and not a wraithish plot, since that would be quite un-sporting. (I've been accused of that type of play, but I never actually did it. Wolves have feelings, too!)

I hope so too.

The latter possibility reminds me of the time Legate's attempt to distance himself from me as a fellow wolf led innocent Mac to send a PM scolding Legate for being mean to me.

Oh, that was cute. Good old times...

Hm, well, one thing I just want to point out at the moment is that, although he's obviously no lynch target for the next couple Days, we shouldn't discount the possibility that Mac is indeed Ferny. I know I said he wasn't, but that was largely based on his failure to pick up my hints that I was a wraith who had been given his name. But on second thought, Mac doesn't tend to be one to look very hard for hints. Fact is, he did engage in Fernyish behavior and is worth keeping an eye on.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I just remembered something else I wanted to say about Mac - the reason I think he's worth mentioning at all: he hasn't behaved like an ordo. He's been far more careful than he is as one (and yes, I think he's careful in spite of the celebrated "slips", which were more like hints. That politeness Legate mentioned, I guess.)

Hmm, now that I think of it, a MacFerny (Scottish) is not as impossible (although, like I said, I am not trusting myself anymore). But, in either case, we should be careful, as when Fea wasn't, somebody is still Ferny - somebody around here, and for certain, somebody far more careful than an average Cobbler (although perhaps he was just lucky that there was Fea around to steal his or her fame At least in some people's eyes).

EDIT: x-ed since my last post