The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Fun and Games > Middle-earth Mirth
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-14-2009, 12:21 PM   #561
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,458
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Out of the frying pan....

The good folk of Dol Amroth had departed, reeling in shock that they had been fooled by an impostor in the guise of their own candidate and wondered at the skill of the critics. The other singers retired once more to their dressing rooms - scarce relieved by the knowledge that there was one critic fewer when two yet remained.

They were right to be worried .... like a homeopathic remedy their potency increased as the amount reduced...

"Lax intonation, lacks timbre, lacks warmth, ..."

The traumatised and vulnerable mezzo from Harad fled from the unseen critics clutching her hastily gathered possessions and was resolving never to set foot in this barbarous land again when she ran straight in to the baritone from Lossarnach. He was very tall, very handsome... maybe Gondor had some redeeming qualities. She realised that he was holding a suitcase ...

"Where are you going? " she asked as he helped her pick up her belongings ....

"I've had enough of this competition ..I'm going home ....come with me its not far and you will be safe.. from the critics there " he said persuasively ..

Brinniel took some persuading but eventually decided she was safer following Bowissimo than risking the critics again and the pair left the Opera House for the last time.

The baritone's departure would be a suprise to all but one would be particularly furious that the bond they shared had meant so little to him that he had left without a word and with another singer.
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”

Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

Last edited by Mithalwen; 01-14-2009 at 01:23 PM.
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 12:25 PM   #562
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,458
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Remaining
Sally, soprano
Lariren , soprano, Ithilien
Kath contralto
Aganzir, Minas Tirith contralto
Gwathagor (Gwathagorio), lyric tenor/spinto Sindar of Eriador
Shastanis Althreduin (tenor leggierio / lyric tenor)
Macalaure (Barney Broadbottle), a Bree-lander from Staddle, Baritone
Gollum the Great - bass-baritone
Boromir 88 basso profundo, Rohan
Cailineomer, trouser role, Forodwaith

You're not singing anymore:

Meneltarmacil - baritone err Nazgul from Minal Morgul ORDO
Nogrod - lyric tenor in the end, Old Forest ORDO
Ilya, mezzo-soprano, vales of Anduin. ORDO
TGWBS - bass, woodwose, SEER
Feanor of the Peredhil, Belfalas (mezzo-)soprano CRITIC
Strongbow, Bowissimo of Lossarnach SOULMATE
Brinniel, mezzo-soprano, Harad ORDO

You're not voting anymore.

The Phantom (Opera Ghost)

You now have 2 Critics, Walter, The Divo/a and a very angry Soulmate who may take (ir)rational vengeance.

May I ask everyone to VOTE. The retractable votes are to allow you to vote early if necessary knowing that you may change your mind if you are able to return,
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”

Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

Last edited by Mithalwen; 01-14-2009 at 12:30 PM.
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 12:30 PM   #563
the phantom
Beloved Shadow
 
the phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Stadium
Posts: 5,971
the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via MSN to the phantom
Eye

Oh great.
__________________
the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important.
the phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 12:47 PM   #564
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Sorry to ruin your plans but

I am Bowie's soulmate.



Therefore I would kindly request not to be lynched today.

I am planning to kill someone today because this is probably my last chance. I am under the impression that the person in question will be killed once I have submitted their name in & Mith is around, ie already before the end of the day. So if you need some actual proof about my innocence...

Also, it's no coincidence I put David Bowie quotes or slight alterations of them here and there in my posts and Strongbow quoted Lion King. If you want a list, here it is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
And all the nobody people (Five Years)
my schoolday was insane (Suffragette City)
uncertain if I like her (Drive-in Saturday)
nowhere to be seen (Life on Mars)
The only quote he had was But maybe I've a glimmer of potential from Be Prepared. We decided to do this in case we would need to prove our innocence later. He stopped posting before getting any more quotes hidden, though.

And no I have no idea what has happened to him. Last time I talked to him was on day 2 I think.

As for my revenge kill, I have some options. However I would gladly like to see suggestions from you others.

I still don't know why tgwbs put me together with Fea. It's certain that he never dreamed of me though. Maybe he wanted to mislead the wolves or then he was just so certain about my guilt.

I want to go through Boro's posts and see if there's anything strange at some point today.

So was Brinn chased away by the critics or did she withdraw?
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 12:53 PM   #565
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,458
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
If the narration is too obscure...

Brinniel was the critics' target. Bowie was modfired ..I couldn't resist the duet. Still trying to find something worthy of Fea....
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”

Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 01:04 PM   #566
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,519
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
I was just going to suggest the other soulmate should stay hidden so not to obscure data/information before making a kill choice.

Well, now that's pointless, thanks Agan. P.S. I'm convinced.

And that also means I now have to scrap my entire opening post, because I was going to set up a defense of monstrous proportions for you. So, thank you times deux.
__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 01:05 PM   #567
the phantom
Beloved Shadow
 
the phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Stadium
Posts: 5,971
the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via MSN to the phantom
Eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agan
The only quote he had was But maybe I've a glimmer of potential from Be Prepared.
Yes, I finally figured that out last night. I knew there was something weird about that post, but I was going about it the wrong way. I guess I haven't watched Lion King enough recently. I didn't recognize the lyrics. I had to type them into Google to finish the connection.

Early on I thought Bowie and Sally were the pair (because they both made the same error in spelling), but after I questioned Sally about her spelling and she didn't respond to it in the expected way, I scratched that idea. So all I was left with was that Bowie had made that one oddly worded post. Surely it had to mean something.

And Google told me it did.
__________________
the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important.
the phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 01:11 PM   #568
Cailín
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Cailín's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lurking in the shadows.
Posts: 711
Cailín has just left Hobbiton.
That was unexpected.

Boromir seemed to think Aganzir was gifted, yesterday, but then she denied it. Well, I am glad that we do not have to waste another lynching opportunity - I was quite disappointed that Fea and Aganzir were not killed in one blow, but now it is evident that TGWBS did not dream of both after all and we can maybe find a known innocent in his posts (though I doubt it will be obvious enough for us to fully trust such a hint).

I will have a look through some of the previous posts now that we have some more information, though I'll leave analysing Fea's contributions to someone less prone to frustration.
Cailín is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 01:29 PM   #569
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
I considered staying hidden but decided I wasn't in a mood for defending myself the whole day, especially as all the evidence pretty much pointed at me. And you're welcome, Boro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cailín
Boromir seemed to think Aganzir was gifted, yesterday, but then she denied it.
I don't think I specifically denied it. I just said no one would have believed me even if I had declared yesterday.

I'm curious about how many caught the hint(s). As far as I know, at least sally and Fea (and tgwbs, but he clearly didn't notice anything ) are familiar with the Lion King. Given that, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the wolves had been aware of us for some time already. I would suppose they wanted to get rid of us as soon as possible, so I'll probably want to take a look at those who suspected me or really wanted a double lynch yesterday. Of course different wolves may have reacted differently, though, and it's not certain they even knew of us.
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 01:48 PM   #570
Lariren Shadow
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Lariren Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Where the day meets the night
Posts: 607
Lariren Shadow is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via AIM to Lariren Shadow Send a message via MSN to Lariren Shadow
So Brinn and Strongbow are gone? Ok then.

Well, I wish I was more aquanited with The Lion King now. And considering I spent most of the summer listening to "Be Prepared"(it was shuffled one day and I kind of got hooked) I should have caught something. Then again, I'm not at all familiar with David Bowie.

I think I need to go back through the posts and see who thought Brinn was suspicious as well as who she was suspicious of. That might give a clue as to who killed her.
__________________
Choose treachery, its more fun!
Lariren Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 04:14 PM   #571
Macalaure
Fading Fëanorion
 
Macalaure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: into the flood again
Posts: 2,911
Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
It's good that Aganzir has a proof of her role, she probably wouldn't have been believed otherwise (at least not by me).

If she was not tgwbs's second dream, then either he dreamt of Fea in Night 2 only (hence he was only certain of her being a critic from then on) and perhaps Boro in Night 1, or I fear he probably dreamt of me in Night 2, hence his suspicion of Aganzir (her vote for Nogrod and her case against me).

I'm a bit surprised about the kill. Brinniel has often been killed when nobody better was to be found, but I'd say this time there was. I need to have a look at her.
Macalaure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 04:53 PM   #572
Macalaure
Fading Fëanorion
 
Macalaure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: into the flood again
Posts: 2,911
Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
I'm a bit sick today, so I only took a look at Brinn's posts from yesterDay.

She's careful about conclusions from the seer's posts and isn't even certain of Fea. She thus is against the double lynch, which must've put her higher on the critics' wish list. She let go of Gollum, which makes him look even more innocent to me.

She then was one of the few ones who looked at the Ilya voting. Sadly, I'm the one who comes out most suspicious. Boro and Kath are considered more innocent.

After her vote she said she wanted to give an analysis of everyone but didn't have the time. (Could one of the critics be a submarine-type who was afraid of no longer floating by after that analysis?) She's suspicious of Sally.

Conclusion (if you can call it that): Sally doesn't look too well. Gollum is probably innocent. Boro and Kath look innocent, too, but both are able to pull a bluff like this and kill somebody who is likely to defend them. Neither is on top of my list right now, though.
Macalaure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 05:35 PM   #573
Gollum the Great
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Gollum the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Pinnacle of my own might
Posts: 386
Gollum the Great has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom View Post
Oh great.
Wow. You are good at reading my mind.
__________________
'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.'
Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse
Gollum the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 05:37 PM   #574
Gollum the Great
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Gollum the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Pinnacle of my own might
Posts: 386
Gollum the Great has just left Hobbiton.
Now to do something constructive: I will analyze someone. Mac prepare to be analyzed!
__________________
'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.'
Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse
Gollum the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 06:00 PM   #575
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
On Boro & Fea's interaction

On day 1 Boro deduced Fea had made a fake confession when saying she was a wolf. He also said that tgwbs's and Fea's lists were different from Brinn's, whose list was more suspicious as she looked like she didn't want to step on anyone's toes. Well Brinn was an ordo whereas both tgwbs and Fea had special roles.

Then there's this little exchange concerning Fea & phantom's code talk, which I believe was one of the things that I found a bit alarming at first. However all the time that I was reading through Fea's posts I thought it was about communication between a critic and the cobbler so that might explain it. It's mostly the catching things part...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fea
Boro - good to see you're catching things. Don't drop the ball.
I have safe hands.

Boro what did you mean with the following?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro on Fea
I'm waiting on one more thing from her, if I see it, I would bet she's innocent, if not - well you can guess.

While reading through Fea's posts after tgwbs's death, I noticed her use of the word follow. Dunno if it means anything, but it's repeated thrice, which seems to me to be more than necessary. Underlinings mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fea, day 2
Does the Cobbler/Spy get to find out the role of the person s/he spies on, or is that information given only to the Critics? Because if the Cobbler knows her/his marks, than there's an extra player on the side of evil who knows that who s/he may or may not be voting for is ordo. Do you follow?
I think it looks like Fea was trying to fish for a reaction from the cobbler. Unless I missed a post, Boro was the only one who replied to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro
I can't see how the cobbler would be able to pass on info that xe didn't know xeself. (Did I use that properly?) That would make a giant continuity problem within the fabric of the performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fea
Cobbler sends choice to Mith, Mith sends choice to Critics. I envision it sort of like the Cobbler picks up a packet of information which xe never gets to read. Of, of course, Cobbler PMs Mith, Mith PMs back, Mith PMs Cobbler. I know Mith used the phrase 'blind drop' and I assume that means that the Cobbler doesn't get to PM the Critics (that the Cobbler doesn't know their identity) but I just wondered if it meant that the Cobbler doesn't actually know the info that xe is acquiring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro
But see the massive inconsistancy? How could you justify a dead drop info to the wolves if the Cobbler doesn't know the info xe is dropping off? Xe's a sneak, not a hallucinajenic.
Boro's responses don't look very much like he was giving cobbler hints to Fea. I think this discussion was another thing that made me doubt his intentions, though. Just because he was the only one who responded.

Another quote with follow, and I really have no idea if this means anything or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fea
On a more-serious-than-movie-reference note, isn't this essentially what we do even when he's not OG? We know he wasn't a critic, and we know he wasn't The Cobbler, but just as if he was still playing, we don't know his priorities (apart from 'himself') and we know he has no special other knowledge he can give us. So I propose this: it's dangerous to assume he's a declared innocent, because he's not: he's a declared OG, which, if you've watched the musical/movie or read the book, Erik was a nutjob serial killer with an absolute skill at torture and manipulate. The trapdoor king. So I propose: we listen to him about as much as we normally do: if his suggestions seem reasonable, we take a shot. If he sounds a bit too much like himself, we skip it.

Everybody follow?
And the last one which was directed at Boro, again with follow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fea
Versus you... now you're usually not so forgiving to me as oh, say... I am. So why the switch now?

Unless you're trying to save me.

If you can't, I say you... take advantage. If you follow.
I don't quite know if I should make anything of that. I believe Fea was trying to find the cobbler, but it's still possible that xe didn't realise it or want to risk giving xemself away, and Fea tried to frame Boro who had reacted to it.

Tgwbs had Boro listed as the most innocent but I don't know if it means anything. Despite this all I'm inclined to believe he dreamed of Fea, maybe on night 1, just because it would suit tgwbseer so well. And it's possible he put my name next to Fea's just so as not to be so obvious, or because he thought I looked as suspicious as she (it happens surprisingly often when people play with me for the first time in ages).
He found Boro innocent already on day 1, and I can't see why he'd later dream of someone he considered innocent. An innocent Mac could have been his night 2 dream, especially given his sudden turn on me then.
A Boro dream is possible but nothing that should be taken for granted.

**

What on earth is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fea
Dear David Bowie: I am still in love with your makeup. ♥me.
**

Also Boro, when did you figure out my role?

And people, I haven't decided yet who I am going to kill, and I'd like to know your opinions as well because otherwise there's a risk I only choose between those I've paid more attention thus far.

Mac, it's also possible the wolves wanted to encourage suspicions against an innocent sally when killing Brinn.

edit: xed with two Gollums
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 06:01 PM   #576
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum the Great View Post
Now to do something constructive: I will analyze someone. Mac prepare to be analyzed!
Errm... okay. Have fun.
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 09:43 PM   #577
Gollum the Great
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Gollum the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Pinnacle of my own might
Posts: 386
Gollum the Great has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganzir View Post
Errm... okay. Have fun.
For what seems the 800th time I got distracted or something and didn't post what I typed up. I'm not holding up to my obligations to this game very well. I'll try to finish this analysis quick.
__________________
'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.'
Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse
Gollum the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 09:52 PM   #578
the phantom
Beloved Shadow
 
the phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Stadium
Posts: 5,971
the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via MSN to the phantom
Eye

TGWBS on Day 2-
Quote:
Cailineomer - Vote Nogrod meta-reason. Not especially suspect, but not especially un-suspect.

Mac - Vote Menel. Not especially suspicious, Wild Man think. Certainly, Wild Man share suspicion of Menel. At time, no suspect anyone else, but latest post seem wise, so Wild Man not extremely wary.

Gwath - Vote Nogrod. Had spat before. But with retrospect, look very defensive against Nogrod. Also, no suspect anyone (except Nog, Lari, late on). Speak much, say little. Then suspect Lari for she speak much, say little! Wild Man suspicious.

Fea - Again, speak much, say little. This vote worst than Gwath, for Gwath formerly suspect Nog, whereas Fea not formerly suspect, or even at time suspect Menel, and push bandwagon. Wild Man suspicious.

Brinniel - Early on, Brinn say: no suspect anyone. Then Brinn say, consider Nog, Sally or Mac, not want spread vote. Then say, want hear more from Mac, Sally say little. Vote for Nog on "feeling". Not very good.
----------
Addendum: Brinn's last post make Wild Man feel she more innocent - it seem innocent reaction.

Kath - Originally, Wild Man think Kath quiet, therefore maybe lynch Kath. However, now that she make word, Wild Man think her word wise.

Boro - No reason to suspect. Feel innocent.

Wild Man tire now. Perhaps look at Sally, Ilya, Aganzir in little while.
----------
Sally - Voice no suspicion to start. Then, once Nog and Menel have 2 vote each, she suddenly say they both look suspicious! Seem like she want fuel bandwagon. Vote Nog despite suspect Menel more. However, claim this to avoid double lynch. Also, final attempt retraction to avoid double lynch. This make her seem more innocent. Overall, Wild Man neutral toward her.

Ilya - Throwaway vote in crucial position. This only mildly concerning.

Aganzir - Wild Man no understand why she vote so late. She present long before last-minute vote. Why late vote? With retrospect, Wild Man no convince by her suspicion of Mac, on feeling. Also, she should know not kill Nog day 1 for normal behaviour! Overall, Wild Man worried.

Lariren - Wild Man see little reason to suspect.
He finishes his post with his list, and Boro is listed at the very top where it says "most innocent".

And notice that his statement about Boro is the shortest and most clear. TGWBS knew he was the Seer when he said it, so do you think he'd say that if he hadn't dreamed of Boro? He didn't say "little reason to suspect". He said "No reason to suspect". And added "Feel innocent".

It seems to me that Boro=innocent is the most likely Night 2 dream. Yeah, yeah, maybe not. But I certainly wouldn't take a shot in that direction. I think you should all just take a leap off a cliff and agree to trust Boro completely. If you're wrong- oh well. You must take risks to pull off a great performance. But if you're right, the Critics will have no choice but to bump him off, and it is always nice to force the hand of the enemy.
__________________
the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important.
the phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 10:53 PM   #579
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,519
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
Quote:
Boro what did you mean with the following?~Agan
A couple times I've noticed Fea makes several false reveals throughout her time in games. She could probably very well do it as a wolf too, but I just remember her being a wolf, ranger, seer, and who knows what other role she claimed to be. When she's an ordo she still loves to stir the pot, but it's more in a fun and innocent way, not sly and evil. That is she will just make all these false claims randomly throughout the game.

The one time I remember her being a wolf, she came out on Day 1 (I think first post) and said it, she ended up being lynched on Day 1, but that was primarily because I was the seer and dreamt her Night 1. I fought my tail off to get her lynched Day 1, without making it clear to everyone I was the seer. So, this time I was waiting for some kind of other random claim at being a soulmate, divo...whatever, which I don't think she did here. She admitted to being a critic on Day 1, and then later tried to look like the Cobbler.

It's possible that tgwbs saw Fea saying she was a critic right off the bat, and thought "that's exactly was a critic-Fea would do - let me see" and dreamt her Night 2. I guess either Night 1 or night 2, doesn't matter anymore, tgwbs definitely had one dream on Fea.

Quote:
Also Boro, when did you figure out my role?
When you revealed and made your post. I didn't know your exact role, nor really your innocence, I was just going to give you a good defense today. Primarily because someone (I think Gwath) picked on the wording of tgwbs using "guilty" and not "suspicious." And I was going to argue at the top of the list he used "innocent" not "least suspicious."

Basically I was going to say, what's Gwath's points in the words tgwbs chose? Or I didn't really think it was that big of a deal? I think "guilty" and "innocent" is the way tgwbs chooses to write, while others like to go for "suspicious" and "unsuspicious," pretty much it doesn't mean anything. I mean I use the word "see" all the time, doesn't mean I'm the seer, it's just the way I write. Also, I highly doubted a wolf-Fea would have incriminated one of her partners the way she did to you. But that's all really a moot point now.

Quote:
But if you're right, the Critics will have no choice but to bump him off, and it is always nice to force the hand of the enemy.~tp
Exactly.

I really have no idea about suspicions right now. I think Kath, Gwath, and Lari all deserve a little pressure though.
__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 10:54 PM   #580
Gollum the Great
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Gollum the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Pinnacle of my own might
Posts: 386
Gollum the Great has just left Hobbiton.
My Big Mac Analysis

Day 1

Post 1:

Says he thought the game would begin tomorrow. Jokes about Boro making frivolous votes on him (Mac). Decided not to try to figure out who has which role and who is the most dangerous. Disagrees with half of what had been said so far, thought phantom was not evil, and thought he could trust Ilya. Doesn't trust Menel.

Post 2:

Says he has nothing funny to say. Makes quick list of who has posted so far:

Quote:
Boro - probably innocent.
Gwath - can't tell, slightly leaning innocent.
Aganzir - I'm not alarmed by her, but Rikae is, so I'm wary.
Sally - hasn't warmed up yet, leaning innocent.
Fea - another one that feels innocent-ish.
Nogrod - feels innocent, which is alarming.
Lari - newbie, therefore auto-assumed-innocent for first few days.
Brinniel - can't tell, but Rikae told me to be careful about her.
Kath - is here... and gone again.
phantom - very probably innocent.
tgwbw - amusing, but maybe more critical about our performances than about his syntax.
Menel - too careful and thus suspicious.
Ilya - probably innocent.
Strongbow - haven't played with him yet and I don't yet know what to make of him.
Post 3:

Says that for the following days he he should be around at the DL, but today he needed to vote early. Claims to be disappointed with the number posts and even more disturbed with their shallow content. Says he will probably vote Menel. Asks someone to be very suspicious in the next half hour.

Post 4:

Jokes with TGWBW's statement that he hadn't made a good explanation of his thought process.

Post 5:

Votes Menel with no reason included in the post


Day 2

Post 1:

Complains that the rest of the opera could have done better than to double-lynch two ordos. Comments on phantom's new standing in the game. Apologizes (to late) to Menel, saying he would have withdrawn his vote had he seen Menel's responses to his votes. Challenges Boro's statement that he (Mac) made an "easy way out to slide by the day". Makes an overview of the previous day's voting:

Quote:
Cailineomer's vote for Nogrod, while somewhat suspicious taken by itself, is probably not a critical one. Why would a critic want to get into trouble with one of the more persuading singers when there was not even an indication then that said singer will be eliminated? It would have been a move that could easily have backfired.
Gwath's vote for Nogrod and Fea's vote for Menel don't smell nice. Both are pushing a bandwaggon.
Brinniel's vote for Nogrod I don't like either. She pushes the bandwaggon with very little reason. Then again, a critic would have known that a Day1-lynching of Nogrod would have attracted interest, so would a critic not rather not have positioned herself in such a spot in a bandwaggon? Hmm..
What to do with Sally's vote? Of course every critic would love to see Nogrod lynched so early, but so much that they would risk their own neck for it by putting a vote in such a prominent space? Hardly. Her retraction looks innocent.
Boro's retraction for Menel is to save Nogrod, of course, but considering that he voted me before mostly because I voted Menel, it's a bit eyebrow-raising. Since obviously he was not happy about either choice, why didn't he at least try to bring up a third option?
Aganzir's vote for Nogrod is consequent - she suspected him for a long time. Not suspicious, unless her suspicions before were fabricated.
Wild man's vote for Menel is not suspicious either. He stated he liked to save Nogrod before.
I'll have a look at the other votes later if I think it might enlighten something.

An analysis of the attempted killing of the phantom would be interesting, but I'm sure tp can do that better than I. I'll leave that burden to him.
Disagrees with TGWBW about tp's role being a good for the village.

Lastly he says something about something which I'm not up to date with.

Post 2:

Tries to reason with Agan regarding her suspicion on him. Agrees with Brinn that the fact that "everyone" is focusing on Nog's death and not Menel's is disturbing.

Post 3: ... is below:

Quote:
Sally - not a critic, I think
Lari - pleasant addition to ww, not suspicious
Fea - suspicious vote yesterday, made headache yesterday, but I'll let her be for now, because I think tp should be able to figure her out before the end
Ilya - too - many - quotes
Brinn - her posts look innocent and helpful, but her vote is suspicious
Kath - same as Brinn, minus the suspicious vote
Aganzir - seems innocent to me
Gwath - suspicious: I need to have another look at him, but right now I think he might come out as my prime suspect for toDay
Shasta - escaped my attention so far
Bowie - escaped my attention, too
Gollum - escaped my attention, too, darnit
tgwbs - I was a bit suspicious of him before, but what he posted toDay so far looks innocent
Boro - I buy his explanation from earlier, so he's off my hook for now
Cailineomer - leaning innocent

This post is mostly for myself to see where I stand and who I need to look at closer. That's what I will do now.
Post 4: ... is not worth summarizing:

Quote:
Second look at Gwathagor: even though he's sufficiently entertaining, apart from some suspicion against Nogrod since Nogrod criticised him, and one comment on Lariren, Gwath has failed to contribute anything of substance to our cause. Wouldn't a critic try to keep a more helpful face? What is he up to?

Shasta gave very little input yesterday and has yet to appear today. I'm interested in what he has to say.

Last Gollum posted, he had not yet caught up with the game. Let's hope he will catch up today.

Strongbow... I don't know what think of him, that's all I can say.

Post 5: is enormous:

Quote:
Cailineomer -> Nogrod

I still think this is probably not a suspicious vote, but I don't have a good picture of the two due to lack of posts.

Mac -> Menel
Nogrod -> Sally
Gwath -> Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1)

Gwath takes his first-best suspicion and gets the bandwaggon rolling with it. Careless.

Shasta -> tgwbs (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1)

Said he will explain today. Why do I have the feeling his explanation won't satisfy us...

Wild man -> Fea (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1)

I don't really understand why the wild man narrowed himself down to Fea and Kath in the end.

Lari -> Ilya (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1)

Solely based on her hunch. Ordos do that because they don't have any better. Critics do it to get away with a throwaway vote.

Menel -> Mac (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1, Mac 1)
Fea -> Menel (Nogrod 2, Menel 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1, Mac 1)

I find her vote less suspicious than Gwath's one, but not by much.

Boro -> Mac (Nogrod 2, Menel 2, Mac 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1)

Fair reasoning, fair placement.

Brinn -> Nogrod (Nogrod 3, Menel 2, Mac 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1)

The one bad black ugly stain on her white vest.

Kath -> Ilya (Nogrod 3, Menel 2, Mac 2, Ilya 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1)

Maybe the most innocent-looking vote of all, I'd say.

Sally -> Nogrod (Nogrod 4, Menel 2, Mac 2, Ilya 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1)

I highly doubt a critic would have made this vote. A very inconvenient spot in the Nogwaggon.

Ilya -> Strongbow (Nogrod 4, Menel 2, Mac 2, Ilya 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Bowie 1)

*goes to look for Ilya's picture in the encyclopedia next to "throwaway vote"*

phantom -> Menel (Nogrod 4, Menel 3, Mac 2, Ilya 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Bowie 1)
Boro -- Mac -> Menel (Nogrod 4, Menel 4, Ilya 2, Mac 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Bowie 1)

Saving Private Nogrod.

Aganzir -> Nogrod (Nogrod 5, Menel 4, Ilya 2, Mac 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Bowie 1)

The placement looks rather evil, but she was after him for a longer time.

Wild man -- Fea -> Menel (Nogrod 5, Menel 5, Ilya 2, Mac 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Bowie 1)

Saving Private Nogrod II.

Sally -- Nogrod -> Menel

Not too little, but too late. Attempt to prevent double lynch. Pretty innocent.

Post 6: states suspicions:

Quote:
Before I retire for today...

Suspicious
Fea
Gwath

Somewhat suspicious
Ilya
Brinn

Nowhere land
Shasta
Strongbow
Gollum
Cailineomer

Somewhat unsuspicious
Lari
Aganzir
tgwbs
Boro

Unsuspicious
Sally
Kath
Then he says that as a wolf he would not poke around trying to get the seer to let a hint slip, if he believed someone to be the seer.


Post 7: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...&postcount=333

Has to many quotes to place here.

Post 8: *yawns* Um, this would be hard to explain. See below: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...&postcount=355

You are getting harder and harder to understand, Mac!

Post 9:

Quote:
Some thoughts on Ilya, who recently rised in my suspicions.

Compare #195 to #223: First she doesn't know where the Nogrod case came from, then she says other people put suspicions against Nogrod (and Menel) in her mind and thus keeps herself out of the vote-fray. Also, first she considers voting Gollum for his case against Strongbow, then she votes Strongbow herself.

Today, while I appreciate all the work she put into all her quote-collections, I'm a bit unhappy with it because there's not much of her own opinions, which I consider more helpful about summary-posts than the summary. She does give her opinions later, but they are kind of simplistic putting-into-boxes like.

In #324 she defends Gwath in a not too convincing manner, which, since I'm suspicious of Gwath, makes me suspicious of her, too. There's also her point against me, which does not make a lot of sense, as Boro remarked, too.

If Ilya should be evil, I think a close look at Brinn might be justified - there seems to be a connection.
Post 10: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...&postcount=373

Post 11:
Quote:
I sense the danger of a last-minute bandwaggon against me, but since I can retract my vote if necessary, I'll vote now:

++Ilya

Clearly my top suspect right now, and there seems to be an actual chance to lynch her today, so no reason to hesitate for me.
That ends day 2, and I can't keep this up. Will complete later.
__________________
'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.'
Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse
Gollum the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 11:07 PM   #581
Lariren Shadow
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Lariren Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Where the day meets the night
Posts: 607
Lariren Shadow is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via AIM to Lariren Shadow Send a message via MSN to Lariren Shadow
Slight apology:

Due to RL stuff(known as busiest day ever!) I probably won't be around at all, possibly not till voting. Then I will try to get back and vote but that depends on how long convocation practice is as well as how much reading I get done for the class I have a test in.

Sorry!
__________________
Choose treachery, its more fun!
Lariren Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 11:25 PM   #582
the phantom
Beloved Shadow
 
the phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Stadium
Posts: 5,971
the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via MSN to the phantom
Eye

Does anyone like Star Wars?

Does anyone like Benny Hill?

Does anyone like both at the same time?

And we all like LotR of course. And The Mouth of Sauron.
__________________
the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important.
the phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 11:54 PM   #583
Gwathagor
Shade with a Blade
 
Gwathagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A Rainy Night In Soho
Posts: 2,512
Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Send a message via AIM to Gwathagor Send a message via MSN to Gwathagor Send a message via Skype™ to Gwathagor
Ok, well, I was pretty busy today, but here I am now.

Gollum! I was hoping you'd actually analyze Mac, rather than just posting quotes. Can we expect to hear your opinions on him later?

Mac's persistent support of a double-lynch yesterDay seems odd to me, given the disastrous consequences of the previous double-lynch. I realize that tgwbs had listed both Fea and Aganzir under "most guilty," but I don't think that would have been enough reason to lynch both. The potential pay-off did not outweigh the potential negative consequences.

Boro - that was indeed me who pointed out that tgwbs short had referred to Fea and Agan as "most guilty." It's obvious now that he just meant it in the sense of "most suspicious" - well, hang on. He would, had he dreamed of Agan, have interpreted her soulmate role as an innocent rather than guilty role, right? Yeah I guess that's a safe assumption.

Aganzir - how does your soulmate-vengeance-kill work exactly?

Time to sleep. Another early morning coming up.

P.S. Ok, you know what? I was reading back some more, and it seems I was making the Mac/double-lynch thing into more of an issue than I should have, since Mac basically ended up agreeing, at the end of the Day, that it wasn't worth it. Sorry.
__________________
Stories and songs.
Gwathagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 01:25 AM   #584
Gollum the Great
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Gollum the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Pinnacle of my own might
Posts: 386
Gollum the Great has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwathagor View Post
Can we expect to hear your opinions on him later?
Yes. I was just tired after my research and in no mood to say much.
__________________
'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.'
Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse
Gollum the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 02:26 AM   #585
satansaloser2005
The Sweetest Spoiler
 
satansaloser2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Okay, so I know this is the lamest excuse ever, but I had a really shiny post (full analysis of all players complete with some lyrics to describe my opinion of them) and it got eaten. I'm terribly sorry, but I'm not doing it again, at least not toDay.

For now, please accept my humble offering of a suspicion list and let me get to sleep.


Suspicious:
Mac
Gollum
Cailin/Eomer

In the middle/no idea/need to look at again to remember what I thought:
Shasta
Gwath
Lari
Kath

Innocent:
Boro
Agan

Again, my sincerest apologies. I'll explain my reasons for suspecting the three I've named in the morning, assuming that I get up on time. If not, even more apologies and a promise to make another post toMorrow should I survive. Gah. It's been a heck of a day and I feel like a slacker. Sorry, guys.

*toddles off for bed*
__________________
"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit."
Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together.
Fenris bookworm.
satansaloser2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 06:23 AM   #586
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum the Great View Post
For what seems the 800th time I got distracted or something and didn't post what I typed up. I'm not holding up to my obligations to this game very well. I'll try to finish this analysis quick.
It's just that I made an enormous Mac analysis yesterday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88 View Post
I didn't know your exact role, nor really your innocence, I was just going to give you a good defense today.
Aww thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwathagor View Post
Mac's persistent support of a double-lynch yesterDay seems odd to me, given the disastrous consequences of the previous double-lynch. I realize that tgwbs had listed both Fea and Aganzir under "most guilty," but I don't think that would have been enough reason to lynch both. The potential pay-off did not outweigh the potential negative consequences.
Now you're quick to change your mind Gwath. Yesterday after Gollum had said it was a risk worth taking you ended up voting for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwath
Aganzir - how does your soulmate-vengeance-kill work exactly?
Ah it is a crime of passion. I can kill anyone, even the divo... Which is why I'm not entirely comfortable with my role because with my luck the person I decide to kill is indeed xem. And I can kill whenever I want, but only once.
I don't care how openly I speak about my kill as it's most likely committed during this day anyway, which means the critics are probably going to scare me to death in the night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwath
it seems I was making the Mac/double-lynch thing into more of an issue than I should have, since Mac basically ended up agreeing, at the end of the Day, that it wasn't worth it.
Only after I had made a really big show that the critics would have been the only ones who had benefited from a double lynch. I think he voted Fea in the end only because there was no chance he could get us double lynched, though.
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 08:33 AM   #587
Cailín
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Cailín's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lurking in the shadows.
Posts: 711
Cailín has just left Hobbiton.
I am not so sure about Boromir.

I still maintain that a double-lynch yesterday was the rational thing to do, and that it would only have worked against the village in case of a gifted Aganzir (and it turns out that she is indeed gifted and able to prove it). However, had she not been gifted, but ordinary, we would still have lynched her today and wasted valuable time in finding the critics.

An elaborate defense of Aganzir without knowing her role sounds like Cobbler-ish behaviour... Everyone knows that had she not been the soulmate, the village would have been obliged to lynch Aganzir, simply because the Seer's legacy is the closest thing to evidence a village can have.

Perhaps this is due to personal experiences: every time another villager has defended me in the past, especially when I was Gifted, it turned out this seemingly helpful person was a wolf (I remember an occasion with our lovely TGWBS and me wasting my Ranger powers defending his lycantropic skin every night) and we are all so easily won.

I have no intention to take the phantom's proposed leap of faith here.
Cailín is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 08:37 AM   #588
Gwathagor
Shade with a Blade
 
Gwathagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A Rainy Night In Soho
Posts: 2,512
Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Send a message via AIM to Gwathagor Send a message via MSN to Gwathagor Send a message via Skype™ to Gwathagor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cailín View Post
I am not so sure about Boromir.

I still maintain that a double-lynch yesterday was the rational thing to do, and that it would only have worked against the village in case of a gifted Aganzir (and it turns out that she is indeed gifted and able to prove it). However, had she not been gifted, but ordinary, we would still have lynched her today and wasted valuable time in finding the critics.

An elaborate defense of Aganzir without knowing her role sounds like Cobbler-ish behaviour... Everyone knows that had she not been the soulmate, the village would have been obliged to lynch Aganzir, simply because the Seer's legacy is the closest thing to evidence a village can have.
I hadn't thought of it that way before.
__________________
Stories and songs.
Gwathagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 08:42 AM   #589
Gwathagor
Shade with a Blade
 
Gwathagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A Rainy Night In Soho
Posts: 2,512
Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Send a message via AIM to Gwathagor Send a message via MSN to Gwathagor Send a message via Skype™ to Gwathagor
I'm sorry, I have to vote pretty early.

++Sally

Potential cobbler maybe, but it's more or less a random vote.
__________________
Stories and songs.
Gwathagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 08:43 AM   #590
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Gwathagorio

On day 1 Gwath said to phantom that he shouldn't assume he had been dreamed of. Back then I thought it could be a seer hint but didn't pursue the idea further as there seemed to be no reason later. He also warned phantom about assuming that ordos try to get killed instead of gifteds.

He said to Fea that ignoring her was the best thing we could do until she stopped confusing us and started actually playing. Nog accused him based on this, saying he was too eager to show he was a decent player himself. I still don't quite agree with Nog, and I think Gwath's response was reasonable ("Nogrod attempts to make himself look good by accusing me of trying to make myself look good.").

Gwath was suspicious of Nog for his case against him but said he wouldn't vote him yet (which he did, after all), and Lari who, in his opinion, didn't say anything. He said he would need more time to decide if it was just natural lack of confidence or something more sinister. 'Something more sinister' is a phrase that always tips me off. There's just something so wolfish in it.
He had noticed Nog's divo comment but assumed it was a joke. Someone brought up a point that innocents should have been careful about lynching Nog after that, but I can hardly blame him, voting for Nog myself too.

On day 2 Gwath defended himself against Mac, who had called his vote careless, by saying their votes weren't very different in terms of context and consequences, and that Mac had actually less reasons to vote for Menel than Gwath had for Nog. I agree with this, but on the other hand I'm still rather suspicious of Mac. I don't think they're both wolves.

Gwath responded reasonably to Boro's statement that he & Nog's argument had been over semantics ie meaningless crap.
He was a bit suspicious of sally and didn't like the Gollum votes. He voted for sally but crossed with deadline.

Okay on to day 3... Gwath voiced the obvious ie we should seriously consider lynching the people the seer suspected the most. He pointed out tgwbs had said most guilty instead of most suspicious, but as Boro already said different people have different ways to phrase things. If I label people either as Guilty, Innocent or Neither, I don't seriously mean that half the people don't have a role.
If he was Fea's fellow critic, I'm not sure he would have brought up more points against her. However we probably shouldn't pay much attention to who were all for lynching Fea and who were wavering since I'm rather sure the wolves just decided to sacrifice her.

Gwath thought I deserved as much attention as Fea but that we shouldn't double lynch us, seeing what happened last time. However here the situation was somewhat different. On day 1 the double lynch was an accident and there was no spectacular evidence against either lynchee, whereas here we were the main suspects of the seer. Therefore an innocent would probably have thought that the risk of a catastrophical double lynch was considerably smaller than on day 1.

Did the wolves have any inkling as to who the cobbler is? If they did, they were probably for a double lynching of Fea and me yesterday. But if they didn't and eg thought I was the cobbler (since I was listed as equally guilty as Fea), I think they would have been against it.

Gwath agreed with Gollum once he had asked why not double lynch us. I don't like it very much because now, had we been double lynched, he could have accused Gollum of making him believe it was a good idea.
He also said he hadn't said we should kill us both, just that we should seriously consider doing so as there was still a chance tgwbs hadn't dreamed of either. While it is possible he tried to defend his fellow (which would have been quite useless at that point though), it makes me feel better about him. A wolf would probably have gone after us both so as to minimize their losses.
He ended up voting for me.

When Fea retracted and voted herself, Gwath thought it looked suspicious and said it really looked like Fea didn't want a double lynch. I don't think his reaction is very suspicious.

Today Gwath thought Mac's support of double lynch seemed odd given the consequences of the previous double lynch. Rather hypocritical. Yesterday Gwath himself was ready to lynch us both. I don't like the way he turns against Mac now.

**

As for interaction between Gwath and Fea, on day 1 she quoted him and told who her favourite movie villain is. She also said Gwath should be lynched instead of her for forgetting that the point of the game is to amuse Mith, which Fea was doing. But this was Fea's list with meta-reasons.

When Nog accused Gwath of overreacting to suspicions, Fea vaguely defended him, saying innocents tend to get more irritated of being unjustly suspected. She added, though, that in her opinion wolves become hostile over little suspicions whereas ordos react to major ones. So in the end she seemed to reach no conclusion about Gwath and both defended and accused him within a few sentences. Gwath was also on her list of possible voting candidates.

On day 2 Fea put Gwath in her Concerned category along with Boro and Ilya, both of whom probably innocent, and said she intended to vote for him. I wonder if she had treated a fellow like that on day 2 as he wasn't *that* suspected. In the end she voted Ilya though, saying she didn't have time to substantiate any arguments against Gwath.

**

I would be rather willing to assume that either Mac or Gwath is a critic. Of those Mac looks more suspicious to me right now, but if one dies and turns out to be innocent, the other deserves to be looked at closely. I don't think they both are wolves, though. The interaction between them and Fea together doesn't look that wolfish.

edit: xed with Cailín & two Gwaths
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 08:53 AM   #591
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Grr now I can't go to eat yet because I have to reply to this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cailín View Post
I still maintain that a double-lynch yesterday was the rational thing to do --- However, had she not been gifted, but ordinary, we would still have lynched her today and wasted valuable time in finding the critics.
It didn't occur to you that I might not have opposed a double lynch so much had I not been a gifted? I understood perfectly well that I wouldn't have been able to prove my innocence if I had been ordo, and I would have been lynched today anyway.
Also, it's twisting the truth to claim that lynching me today would have wasted time to find the critics. The only thing that would have wasted time would have been to automatically assume that I was a wolf and interpret everything in that light today. I dare guess you wouldn't have concentrated only on me today anyway, although that's certainly what the wolves would have tried to do.

Quote:
An elaborate defense of Aganzir without knowing her role sounds like Cobbler-ish behaviour...
It occurred to me as well, but I'm not sure if I agree. Because there was a chance tgwbs hadn't dreamed of either of us.
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.

Last edited by Aganzir; 01-15-2009 at 08:53 AM. Reason: tgwbs, not Fea
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 08:57 AM   #592
Macalaure
Fading Fëanorion
 
Macalaure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: into the flood again
Posts: 2,911
Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganzir
Mac, it's also possible the wolves wanted to encourage suspicions against an innocent sally when killing Brinn.
True. In that case the wolves killed somebody who looked innocent and left no clues towards them. This raises the question: Boro looks even more innocent and has the higher werewolf reputation. Why not him instead? Even if he is the cobbler, the critics knew that Aganzir is innocent and not dreamt of. Boro would be the next best guess at a seer dream. Why were they not eager to finish off a soon-to-be quasi-known innocent? Brinniel might have had some ideas, but did not really pose an immediate threat. Did the critics think Boro is the divo or did they fear Boro's death because he was too right and they hoped while alive he might still change his mind? I need to have a look at him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
You are getting harder and harder to understand, Mac!
I know, I feel the same about myself.

Looking forward to the rest of your analysis.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganzir
Only after I had made a really big show that the critics would have been the only ones who had benefited from a double lynch. I think he voted Fea in the end only because there was no chance he could get us double lynched, though.
Despite all the pressure that was on you all day you did not do anything that was actually suspicious. That's why, in the end, I decided it was worth doubting you for another day. Other than that, I agree with Cailineomer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cailineomer
I still maintain that a double-lynch yesterday was the rational thing to do, and that it would only have worked against the village in case of a gifted Aganzir (and it turns out that she is indeed gifted and able to prove it). However, had she not been gifted, but ordinary, we would still have lynched her today and wasted valuable time in finding the critics.

Rikae just told me, if you have no idea who a critic is, lynch an idiot. I better get myself some ideas soon...

Gwath is still eyebrow-raising, though. He and Sally are not wolves together - his vote pretty much fixes that now.


Aganzir: it would be best to make up your mind before all the votes go around, so that we're not voting for dead people.


PS: Sally, I usually write my posts in Word and copy them into the editor only to edit the tags in. If my browser eats a post, I always still have the original.

xed with Aganzir's Gwathalysis and everything after.
Macalaure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:05 AM   #593
satansaloser2005
The Sweetest Spoiler
 
satansaloser2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
PS: Sally, I usually write my posts in Word and copy them into the editor only to edit the tags in. If my browser eats a post, I always still have the original.

Thanks for the tip, love. Unfortunately, it was my entire computer that crashed, not the internet.



Okay, so I'm at work but they told me I'm not really working until 11 (it's a bit after 9) so I'm on the computer there and will do my best to work up some posts. Just give me a couple minutes to get settled and I'll be back.
__________________
"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit."
Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together.
Fenris bookworm.
satansaloser2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:17 AM   #594
Cailín
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Cailín's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lurking in the shadows.
Posts: 711
Cailín has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
It didn't occur to you that I might not have opposed a double lynch so much had I not been a gifted? I understood perfectly well that I wouldn't have been able to prove my innocence if I had been ordo, and I would have been lynched today anyway.
Also, it's twisting the truth to claim that lynching me today would have wasted time to find the critics. The only thing that would have wasted time would have been to automatically assume that I was a wolf and interpret everything in that light today. I dare guess you wouldn't have concentrated only on me today anyway, although that's certainly what the wolves would have tried to do.
Naturally I am disappointed in my critical reading skills that I failed to recognise you as a Gifted, but it is easy to read posts in a certain way in hindsight. You would have been equally opposed to a double-lynch had you been a nasty critic, and even more so were you the Cobbler, of course.

And I am not twisting the truth. I do not necessarily count discussion as very productive in finding critics. Call me crude, but it is the lynching that matters. And we would have lynched you, as you very well know.
Cailín is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:34 AM   #595
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macalaure View Post
Did the critics think Boro is the divo or did they fear Boro's death because he was too right and they hoped while alive he might still change his mind? I need to have a look at him.
Possible. Or then they want to force us to lynch him just to check him out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Rikae just told me, if you have no idea who a critic is, lynch an idiot. I better get myself some ideas soon...
And who would she suggest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Aganzir: it would be best to make up your mind before all the votes go around, so that we're not voting for dead people.
Ah planning to vote yourself?
Right now I think it's going to be either Cailín or Mac, although I'm considering also Gwath. I could of course take someone I have no idea about, like Shasta or Gollum, but currently I'm not inclined to do so.

By the way, I wonder if the diva/divo should start to think about revealing at some point. As the cobbler is still alive it's possible the critics already know xer identity, and I wouldn't mind knowing that the person I kill is not the diva/o. Plus I think we could do with a known innocent.

Cailín, you were talking about how the situation would have looked if I had been an ordo, and that's what I replied to. I fail to see what your response has to do with mine.

If you are not twisting the truth, yours is different from mine (hmm I wonder if this makes you a baddie ). We have Fea and her interaction with others, which, I admit, don't provide us with much information though. We can make analyses that help us later even if we lynch an innocent. Etc. So no, I don't think only lynching matters.
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:36 AM   #596
the phantom
Beloved Shadow
 
the phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Stadium
Posts: 5,971
the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via MSN to the phantom
Eye

DAY 1 VOTES
CailEom ++Nog
Mac ++Menel
Nog ++sally
Gwath ++Nog (2)
Shasta ++tgwbs
tgwbs ++Fea
Lari ++Ilya
Menel ++Mac
Fea ++Menel (2)
Boro ++Mac (2)
Brinn ++Nog (3)
Kath ++Ilya (2)
Sally ++Nog (4)
Ilya ++Strongbow
Phantom ++Menel (3)
Boro --Mac (1)
Boro ++Menel (4)
Aganzir ++Nog (5)
TGWBS --Fea (0)
TGWBS ++Menel (5)

LATE
Sally --Nog (4)
Sally ++Menel (6)

NO VOTE
Strongbow
Gollum

**********

DAY 2 VOTES
Brinn ++Gollum
Sally ++Gollum (2)
TGWBS ++Fea
Kath ++Ilya
Mac ++Ilya (2)
Agan ++Ilya (3)
Fea ++Ilya (4)
Boro ++Ilya (5)
Lari ++Shasta

LATE
Gwath ++Sally
Ilya ++Gollum (3)
Ilya --Gollum (2)
Ilya ++Mac

NO VOTE
Shasta
Bowie
Gollum
CailEom

**********

DAY 3 VOTES
Sally ++Fea
Kath ++Fea
Agan ++Fea
Gwath ++Agan
Lari ++Fea
Fea ++Agan
CailEomer ++Agan
Boro ++Fea
Fea --Fea
Fea ++Fea
Shasta ++Fea
Brin ++Fea
Mac ++Fea

NO VOTE
Gollum
Bowie
__________________
the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important.
the phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:40 AM   #597
satansaloser2005
The Sweetest Spoiler
 
satansaloser2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.satansaloser2005 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom View Post
vote count


Thanks sweetie. You just made my life a bit easier.

I'm here and currently doing my Cailin/Eomer analysis. Done sometime soon.
__________________
"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit."
Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together.
Fenris bookworm.
satansaloser2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:50 AM   #598
Cailín
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Cailín's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lurking in the shadows.
Posts: 711
Cailín has just left Hobbiton.
Aganzir, I am sorry you fail to see my meaning and the rational, mathematical thought process that informed my decision. Macalaure is obviously on the same page, but I do not trust him either.

Do not let your personal disagreement with me cloud your judgement.

Last edited by Cailín; 01-15-2009 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Cross-posted with Sally. I am eager to see that, hope she keeps her promise! :)
Cailín is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:52 AM   #599
the phantom
Beloved Shadow
 
the phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Stadium
Posts: 5,971
the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via MSN to the phantom
Eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Did the critics think Boro is the divo
Heh. Boro aint the Divo. If he was, he'd have let me know somehow.

No, no, he's an Ordo, and thus he fears death at night. No doubt that is why he chose to greet the village the way he did- with a pseudonym. He greeted us as "Smithee" (from "Alan Smithee" I assume), the director's version of "Walter Plinge". He wanted to plant the idea with the Wolves from the beginning that he was Walter, thus decreasing his chances of dying and increasing the chances that the real Walter would be done in.

Very nice, Boro. It's something I would have done were it not for the fact that my highest calling was to court death and thus prove my divine status.
__________________
the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important.
the phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:55 AM   #600
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by satansaloser2005 View Post
I'm here and currently doing my Cailin/Eomer analysis. Done sometime soon.
Bah I was just about to start doing one, too. I'll do something else then and if I come up with something you didn't have in your analysis, I'll say it.

Cailín, sorry if it wasn't clear enough but I would like you to elaborate what you meant by
Quote:
Naturally I am disappointed in my critical reading skills that I failed to recognise you as a Gifted, but it is easy to read posts in a certain way in hindsight. You would have been equally opposed to a double-lynch had you been a nasty critic, and even more so were you the Cobbler, of course.
and how it was supposed to answer to my previous statement.

Also, I don't let my disagreement with you cloud my judgement. You and Mac have been my options ever since I knew Bowie would get modkilled, and that is because I find you suspicious, not because I disagree with you.

edit: xed with phantom
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:50 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.