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06-17-2007, 11:24 AM
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#561 | |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Or even Carcharoth could be that. But I think Sauron is more correct.
Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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06-17-2007, 05:16 PM
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#562 |
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Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Shadow Gallery
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Good thinking with Sauron, though if that were my line of reasoning, I probably would prefer Morgoth, just because Grishnakh is so incredibly inferior to Sauron as a servant of evil.
Coincidentally, Legate, Carcaroth is who I was looking for: but that wasn't the reason why. Think less specifically of Frodo's personal relation to Grishnakh...
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The answer to life is no longer 42. It's 4 8 15 16 23... 42. "I only lent you my body; you lent me your dream." |
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06-18-2007, 02:17 PM
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#563 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Thinking aloud
Huh! Indeed? Now why... Grishnakh didn't bite off Frodo's arm... nor did Sam sing lullaby to him... nor did he eat the Ring (though he'd certainly like to... bah! maybe not, what would Sauron do to him then if he learned it's inside him?)... not personal, you say? But what then, when they are connected by it? Grishnakh captured, or later also saved Frodo's friends, Merry&Pippin... could it be said that Carcharoth "saved" the Silmaril? Or those who killed him were his friends... Horsemen - Huan? Bah, hobbits did not know the Horsemen... Mablung... I can't think of anything, really.
 Maybe - a Nazgul that scared Frodo was supposed to carry Grishnakh over the water? But Carcharoth did not need anything to carry... and the simple relationship Frodo - Sauron - Grishnakh vs. Beren - Morgoth - Carcharoth it's not as you said... that idea would fit more with Shagrat or some other "door guard".
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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06-19-2007, 07:18 PM
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#564 |
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Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Shadow Gallery
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Yes, Frodo-Sauron-Grishnakh is a tie with Beren-Morgoth-Carcaroth. Anyway, since you already know the name itself, here's my reasoning behind it:
Frodo entered Mordor dressed as an Orc: Grishnakh was a notable Orc who served Sauron, Lord of Mordor. (You're right in saying that Shagrat would have done better as an example, because he was at the gates of Mordor when Frodo entered.) In any case, Beren entered Angband dressed as a Werewolf: Carcaroth was a notable Werewolf who served Morgoth, Lord of Angband. So there it is. Thread's yours, Legate.
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The answer to life is no longer 42. It's 4 8 15 16 23... 42. "I only lent you my body; you lent me your dream." |
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06-20-2007, 06:38 AM
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#565 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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Huh! I probably wouldn't have thought of it. Tough one.
Okay, here goes mine: Thranduil is to Sauron as Fréalaf Hildeson is to _______
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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06-25-2007, 06:24 AM
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#566 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
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I can't think of anyone else but Wulf, who was defeated together with his Dunlendings by Frealaf, just as Thranduil's elves managed to defeat Sauron's orcs.
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06-25-2007, 11:46 AM
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#567 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Yup, it was Wulf, but not for the reason you name.
Since Miggy said he will not be here now, the next person who says the correct reason why can have the thread.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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07-12-2007, 04:30 AM
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#568 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
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Ha, I'm back...and it seems nobody was interested in the thread...
Anyway...maybe because Sauron attacked Thranduil while all his allies were under attack as well, just as Wulf did, taking advantage of the fact that Easterlings were attacking Rohan in the east and that Gondor was threatened by Corsairs.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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07-12-2007, 05:14 AM
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#569 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Hmm, happens that I probably forgot what I had in mind when I put the riddle up
 Oh, have the thread - I think I was occupying it here for quite some time...
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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07-25-2007, 01:05 PM
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#570 |
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Guard of the Citadel
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Location: Oxon
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I can't seem to be able to come up with anything good right now, so anyone who wishes may post.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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09-28-2007, 03:13 PM
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#571 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Okay, I'll take it
What about
Bilbo is to Dori as The Ring is to _________?
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-29-2007, 06:43 AM
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#572 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
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Dori and Bilbo together makes me think about Dori carrying Bilbo on his back through the tunnels, just like a Ring-bearer carries the Ring.
Considering that Dori dropped Bilbo when he was attacked by an Orc, I would say the Ring-bearer in this case must be Isildur since he also dropped the Ring while he was being followed by Orcs.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
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09-29-2007, 08:58 AM
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#573 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Well, that's perfectly true, but not the thing I had in mind. Though I must say the thing I had in mind was very similar than that guess of yours, but the answer is not Isildur. Keep guessing.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-29-2007, 10:03 AM
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#574 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
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Maybe Frodo...he dropped the Ring eventually when attacked by Gollum...well actually he lot his finger as well
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
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09-29-2007, 10:45 AM
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#575 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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Actually my first idea that Bilbo was an unwanted baggage for Dori, but since the Ring was an unwanted baggage for everyone, there's not much chance to get a clear answer. I thought about Sam, just in case TM is not right
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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09-29-2007, 11:40 AM
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#576 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
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No and no, but keep guessing, you're really close...
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-29-2007, 11:54 AM
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#577 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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Then to Gollum. He couldn't get rid of it, though he wanted to
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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09-29-2007, 11:59 AM
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#578 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
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Gollum is the correct answer, but that is not the correct reasoning. Surely Gollum was not the only one who wanted to get rid of the Ring (nor Dori the only one who wanted to get rid of Bilbo
 )...
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-29-2007, 12:12 PM
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#579 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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In that case, it could be many things. But the first that comes to my mind is that Dori was the one who carried Bilbo in the goblin tunnels, as did Gollum with the Ring for a long time.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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09-29-2007, 12:24 PM
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#580 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Almost :D
Combine that with one of your or TM's previous guesses and you have it.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-29-2007, 12:26 PM
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#581 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
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Well then maybe that they both dropped their load as they accidentally fell.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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09-29-2007, 12:35 PM
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#582 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Well, Gollum did not accidentally fall... we are not told what happened to him after he got that little goblin.
But otherwise I suppose you meant that Gollum both carried and lost the Ring, as Dori both carried and "lost that burglar". We can also say it happened almost at the same place.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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09-29-2007, 12:35 PM
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#583 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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No... (TM, I can't see how that's combining Legate's guess and some of the earlier ones...
)
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-29-2007, 12:38 PM
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#584 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
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Cross-posted with Legate
And no, you don't have it either, Legate.
Well, combine TM's first guess and the guess of Legate's I told you to combine with an earlier guess.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-29-2007, 12:53 PM
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#585 | |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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Quote:
Okay, so how about that they both dropped their load in the presence of the goblins? But it was from a different side: Dori was chased by the goblins, while Gollum chased the goblins.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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09-29-2007, 01:02 PM
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#586 | |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Quote:
Which is to say, no, that is not the correct reasoning either.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-29-2007, 01:11 PM
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#587 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I'm going to leave BD for this night and so that you don't need to lose your night's sleep pondering this (
 ), I'll give you the right answer as you're so close anyway.To Dori, Bilbo is something he dropped in Moria. To Gollum, the Ring is something he dropped in Moria. Legate can have the thread as he was the one to guess Gollum and to mention Moria (even though very vaguely).
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-29-2007, 01:40 PM
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#588 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
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What?
 Moria is a bit further south the last time I looked on the map of M-e...?!?! Though I must agree that Legate should go next.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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09-29-2007, 02:13 PM
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#589 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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To Lommy: You did well to go to bed, your wits were getting sleepy!
Okay, let's ask something. Thrór is to Nár as ______ is to Elrond
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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09-30-2007, 10:48 AM
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#590 | ||
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
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Hehe
Quote:
Quote:
The thing I had in mind was rather "in the goblin passages under the Misty Mountains" but somehow I managed to mix Moria with it when writing that post... *wonders what will happen in the trivia match* 
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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10-01-2007, 12:45 PM
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#591 |
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Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 33
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A couple of thoughts...
Could Nar be considered Thror's herald, although the Dwarves did not have quite the same titles as the Elves? If so, then the answer is Gil-Galad since Elrond was his herald.
The other angle is that Nar advised Thror against going to Moria, and yet Thror proceeded and it cost him his life. Likewise, Elrond advised Isildur to destroy the ring, and yet he did not and it later cost him his life. In this case, the answer would be Isildur. |
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10-01-2007, 12:51 PM
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#592 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Good thoughts, but no, not what I had in mind. I'm not quite sure what was Nár's position - he was just a companion as far as I know. And the Isildur answer also is not what I had in mind.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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11-18-2007, 08:54 AM
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#593 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
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Maybe Arwen, because she did something against Elrond's advice just like Thror with Nar.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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11-18-2007, 11:10 AM
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#594 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Nope. I would help you this way: What was Thrór to Nár? That was _____ to Elrond.
And I have to say "what" was Thrór to Nár. Even if it were gramatically correct, I couldn't say "who" was Thrór to Nár, because in this case it does not work like that.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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12-05-2007, 01:02 PM
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#595 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
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Hmm
All I could find is that Thror and Nar were old companions. But besides that I don't know... Hmmm...and Elrond's old companion might be...Glorfindel?
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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12-05-2007, 01:16 PM
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#596 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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Don't think about relationship. Think about what they represented. At certain point of time. *shrugs* (You will understand when you find the answer)
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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12-05-2007, 01:27 PM
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#597 |
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Guard of the Citadel
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What they represented...
Hard to say. Maybe Elwing in this case. Elrond was spared by the Sons of Feanor like Nar was spared by Azog...really difficult to understand this.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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12-05-2007, 01:38 PM
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#598 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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No, no... what to say...
WHAT they represented... not WHO they represented... not relationship but... well, yes, what they represented... I don't know how to say that better... emphasise the WHAT... WHAT... like an... well, object... If you don't get it now, then tell me and I will post a hint that will aim at it from some other point of view.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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12-05-2007, 01:44 PM
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#599 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Maybe they represented a pair or something like that. (not in the romantical way)
So would Elros then be the match for Elron do make a pair as well.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
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12-06-2007, 02:45 AM
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#600 |
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Wisest of the Noldor
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Hint, please.
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Linear Mode
