Verbal Reasoning! - Page 14 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-10-2007, 03:23 AM

Nope...

We are actually speaking about someone living, non inanimate object or place... so no kind of trick like that one... but still, it is no name in the meaning of a name that would you'll find in one's identity card.

Beregond · 05-10-2007, 01:09 PM

I would say Azog, because he killed Thror, like Sauron's servants killed Isildur. But that's a name. And I could see it on a passport... "Azog of Khazad-dum, ID#2542".

And I would say the Elven Smiths of Eregion, because I think it was they who forged the Seven, like Sauron forged the One. But they aren't an individual.

A name like "the Witch-king", or Nazgul, seems to fit, except I see no connection to Thror.

EDIT: I think I have it! Dain I was Thror's father, and he was killed by a dragon, I believe.

Elendil was Isildur's father, and he was killed by...Sauron!

So the answer is...dragon!

Maybe... :P

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-10-2007, 01:51 PM

Azog it was not, because Azog killed Thrór, but Sauron himself it was not who killed Isildur...

But believe it or not, you found the correct answer!
Yes, the answer was THE one dragon, the "cold-drake" who killed Dáin I., just as by Sauron's hand was killed Isildur's father.

Please continue the thread

Beregond · 05-10-2007, 02:01 PM

Wow, yay!

Alright....

Smeagol is to Hithaeglir

as

Arvedui is to ______.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-10-2007, 02:03 PM

Hmmm... Forochel?

Sméagol escaped the Stoor villages and hid in Hithaeglir, the same did Arvedui when he escaped from Fornost. Or, it could be even the "unnamed abandoned dwarven mines" where Arvedui was hiding at certain time...

Beregond · 05-10-2007, 02:06 PM

Not Forochel....but..your other guesses hit so near I must almost give it to you...but...give me more information.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-10-2007, 02:08 PM

So it's not Forochel? I meant, of course, not Forochel, since it is a bay, but the land around there, Lossoth village, and so on?

Beregond · 05-10-2007, 02:10 PM

Ah, no, the entire Forochel part was wrong. It was the last part of your guess that hit close.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-10-2007, 02:13 PM

Well, if I recall correctly, the Dwarven mines were in the north of the mountains, I'd have to check it but I believe there is not explicitely said where, but it looks like it was somewhere on the edge of the mountains of Angmar or something like that... so actually, also part of the Misty Mountains.

The Might · 05-10-2007, 02:32 PM

No...the mines were still in the Blue Mountains, and afterwards he lived on the shore of the Icebay of Forochel.

Beregond · 05-10-2007, 02:39 PM

The Might, you're right, but for the question note that I said Hithaeglir instead of Misty Mountains...

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-10-2007, 02:41 PM

Okay, I looked it up, and it says:

Quote:

But King Arvedui held out upon the North Downs until the last, and then fled north with some of his guard; and they escaped by the swiftness of their horses.
For a while Arvedui hid in the tunnels of the old dwarf-mines near the far end of the Mountains, but he was driven at last by hunger to seek the help of the Lossoth, the Snowmen of Forochel.

Since the North Downs are about half way from the Misty to the Blue mountains (and maybe a little bit closer to the Misty), and there are not any Mountains mentioned earlier (just "Mountains"), we can only speculate what Mountains these were. But I was always under the impression that it was the end of the Misty Mountains, or the Mountains of Angmar, because to get to Ered Luin, Arvedui would have to cross Lune and before, go around - or through - Emyn Uial, which doesn't seem logical because he could as well flee to Mithlond and not complicate the matters any more. But we are also told about "swiftness of horses", and going through or around Emyn Uial on horses is not much of a bonus, however on the vast plains between North Downs and the Misty Mountains (or mountains of Angmar) the horses could use their speed well, as later were by the Witch-King himself in his pursuit by Glorfindel.
Also, there is some strange sort of mountains or hills depicted on the LotR map just west of the mountains of Angmar, and since it seems unlikely that the King will on his flight willingly get near the enemy's capitol of Carn Dum, the Dwarven mines could as well be there.

EDIT: Cross-posted. Hmm...

Beregond · 05-10-2007, 02:46 PM

I would not have thought he would get even that close... and I assumed it was the Mountains of Ered Luin, but now you've left me wondering if that's true. Ered Luin was what I was looking for anyway, the Sindarin name of the mountains that I thought Arvedui hid under, but since I may be wrong, it was a poor question!

Legate, I will say you got it because you first mentioned the old dwarf mines.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-10-2007, 03:01 PM

Well, this is sort of troubling, since if you were looking for Ered Luin, then I'd say Miggy got it. But... probably if we don't know for sure where the mines were, and if you don't want to use your right as the riddle-poster to say "for MY riddle, THIS answer is correct", then... ah, whatever, let the thread move - it will surely swap between us more times, so...

Isildur is to Gil-Galad

as

Túrin is to _______

Beregond · 05-10-2007, 03:08 PM

Ah, yes, sorry if I was a little unfair, Miggy, wasn't intended.

I would say Turgon, because he was the reigning High King of the Noldor during Turin's lifetime, just as Gil-Galad was the High King of the Noldor for the most part of Isildur's lifetime.

The Might · 05-10-2007, 03:13 PM

maybe Finwe
Isildur killed Sauron and so avenged Gil-galad
It has been prophesized that Turin would kill Melkor, and would thus avenge Finwe
Why I picked him is because both he and Gil-galad were High Kings of the Noldor

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-10-2007, 03:19 PM

Beregond: Fine, but it's not that general (many people lived at the same time - this works both ways, it is more personal).
Mig: Good idea, you did well to bring Sauron between them, though it's not what I was looking for.

It's personal - so it relates to the people who really were in contact.

Beanamir of Gondor · 05-12-2007, 09:07 PM

My first guess was Thingol, but I don't have a real reason and it feels stupid.

I keep going back to the relationships between fathers, particularly because Elendil and Gil-Galad died in battle together. Perhaps something to do with Hurin, though I'm not sure what? But then Hurin outlived Turin... and Elendil died before Isildur.
I also keep getting the images of the broken Anduril and Gurthang, though they were broken in different ways, and Gurthang was actually Turin's...

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-13-2007, 01:55 AM

Well, I might say you are, how should I say it, not knocking, but running around the right door

Beanamir of Gondor · 05-18-2007, 11:01 AM

Okay, let's see if I'm barking up the wrong tree...

Isildur's father Elendil fought against Sauron (at Orodruin) with Gil-Galad.
Meanwhile,
Turin's father Hurin fought against Morgoth (at Thangorodrim) with Fingon.

They were both crucial battles of their Age... but I'm not sure if Hurin -> Fingon is quite as strong of a tie as Gil-Galad -> Elendil.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-20-2007, 11:18 AM

Too complicated.

So, the answer is no.

The Might · 05-28-2007, 07:14 AM

Maybe Beleg
Just as Elendil's (and then Isildur's) sword and Gil-galad's spear fought against Sauron, so did Turin's sword and Beleg's bow fight against Morgoth.
The idea is that all 4 all well known weapons.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-28-2007, 11:05 AM

Nope.

Let's make it easier by widening the range (hopefully):

Isildur is to Gil-Galad and Elendil

as

Túrin is to _______ and ________

The Might · 05-29-2007, 05:13 AM

Well, I guess my idea about Isildur avenging Elendil and Gil-galad by cutting the Ring off Sauron's hand makes sense.

But Sauron was not killed, so I can't think of anyone Turin avenged without killing someone else.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-29-2007, 02:39 PM

So then you must leave the idea of avenging, eh? Now it's not that hard (or I believe

- but really, it isn't). Just think what else did Elendil&Gil-Galad in common in relation to Isildur - and think of the same with Túrin...

Beanamir of Gondor · 06-04-2007, 05:53 PM

Oh, why not: Huor!

Legate of Amon Lanc · 06-05-2007, 03:09 AM

Oh, why not, but it's wrong

But anyway, we are looking for two names now... and it's far easier then I think...

Shards of Narsil · 06-05-2007, 12:28 PM

How about Hurin and Thingol? Thingol was king of Doriath and Hurin was the leader of men at the time, as Gil-galad was king of Lindon and Elendil was king of men.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 06-05-2007, 01:00 PM

Eee. Not what I had in mind (and someone I think already guessed very similar thing).

Hint: Clear your mind. Now close your eyes and imagine these three together. What scenery do you see?

The Might · 06-05-2007, 02:00 PM

Well I see Elendil and Gil-galad dying, then Isildur coming and avenging them.
In the same way I'd see Turing avenge maybe Morwen and Nienor.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 06-05-2007, 02:22 PM

Well, but Morwen was still alive

So no, that's not it.

Shards of Narsil · 06-05-2007, 03:34 PM

Ah, so in keeping with TM's theme, then Turin would be avenging Finduilas and Beleg?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 06-05-2007, 03:52 PM

Beleg? *cough* Well, he ultimately did "avenge" him, but Isildur surely didn't kill himself, you know. Sort of mixing apples and oranges here (uh? Which one is what, I wonder?). So, no. But I hope this chain of thoughts might hit someone with posing himself the right question.

Beanamir of Gondor · 06-14-2007, 07:24 PM

Okey doke, this might be a little bit of a stretch. But in both cases a v. important sword was involved, and everyone involved died. Hopefully this is at least the right scenario, and I've just picked the wrong characters...

Gil-Galad and Elendil died fighting Sauron, whom Isildur managed to destroy. (Elendil just happened to be Isildur's father.)

Meanwhile,

Hunthor and Nienor died fighting Glaurung, whom Turin managed to destroy. (Nienor just happened to be Turin's sister.)

Legate of Amon Lanc · 06-15-2007, 04:35 AM

Okay. Take the thread, please.

From the beginning I was looking for Hunthor, who was Túrin's companion in the final battle with Glaurung, but died. The same happened in the "kill Sauron" scenario: only Isildur survived, and he was the one who killed Sauron.

I would accept Dorlas as the second answer as well. But the main thing was about Hunthor.

The Might · 06-15-2007, 06:23 AM

Hmm...I was thinking about that, but didn't think about Hunthor.

Shards of Narsil · 06-15-2007, 12:23 PM

I had Hunthor in my head and thought it would fit, but for some reason didn't post. Probably because Legate was laughing at me.

Any way, good job Beanamir!

Beanamir of Gondor · 06-16-2007, 09:15 AM

Wow, I can't believe Hunthor was the right answer. Good riddle, Legate!
Okay, this one is probably pretty easy. It might require explanation, though.

Frodo is to Grishnakh

as

Beren is to ________

FeRaL sHaDoW · 06-17-2007, 02:31 AM

is it

Frodo is to Grishnakh

as

Beren is to Morgoth

The Might · 06-17-2007, 08:50 AM

I'd rather say Sauron.
Grishnakh was trying to find the Ring-bearer (Frodo), out of Sauron's orders just as
Sauron tryed to find Beren out of Melkor's orders.

05-10-2007, 03:23 AM	#521
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Nope... We are actually speaking about someone living, non inanimate object or place... so no kind of trick like that one... but still, it is no name in the meaning of a name that would you'll find in one's identity card. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-10-2007, 01:09 PM	#522
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	I would say Azog, because he killed Thror, like Sauron's servants killed Isildur. But that's a name. And I could see it on a passport... "Azog of Khazad-dum, ID#2542". And I would say the Elven Smiths of Eregion, because I think it was they who forged the Seven, like Sauron forged the One. But they aren't an individual. A name like "the Witch-king", or Nazgul, seems to fit, except I see no connection to Thror. EDIT: I think I have it! Dain I was Thror's father, and he was killed by a dragon, I believe. Elendil was Isildur's father, and he was killed by...Sauron! So the answer is...dragon! Maybe... :P __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green." Last edited by Beregond; 05-10-2007 at 01:14 PM.

05-10-2007, 01:51 PM	#523
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Azog it was not, because Azog killed Thrór, but Sauron himself it was not who killed Isildur... But believe it or not, you found the correct answer! Yes, the answer was THE one dragon, the "cold-drake" who killed Dáin I., just as by Sauron's hand was killed Isildur's father. Please continue the thread __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-10-2007, 02:01 PM	#524
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Wow, yay! Alright.... Smeagol is to Hithaeglir as Arvedui is to ______. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

05-10-2007, 02:03 PM	#525
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Hmmm... Forochel? Sméagol escaped the Stoor villages and hid in Hithaeglir, the same did Arvedui when he escaped from Fornost. Or, it could be even the "unnamed abandoned dwarven mines" where Arvedui was hiding at certain time... __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-10-2007, 02:06 PM	#526
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Not Forochel....but..your other guesses hit so near I must almost give it to you...but...give me more information. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

05-10-2007, 02:08 PM	#527
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	So it's not Forochel? I meant, of course, not Forochel, since it is a bay, but the land around there, Lossoth village, and so on? __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-10-2007, 02:10 PM	#528
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Ah, no, the entire Forochel part was wrong. It was the last part of your guess that hit close. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

05-10-2007, 02:13 PM	#529
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well, if I recall correctly, the Dwarven mines were in the north of the mountains, I'd have to check it but I believe there is not explicitely said where, but it looks like it was somewhere on the edge of the mountains of Angmar or something like that... so actually, also part of the Misty Mountains. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-10-2007, 02:32 PM	#530
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	No...the mines were still in the Blue Mountains, and afterwards he lived on the shore of the Icebay of Forochel. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

05-10-2007, 02:39 PM	#531
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	The Might, you're right, but for the question note that I said Hithaeglir instead of Misty Mountains... __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

05-10-2007, 02:46 PM	#533
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	I would not have thought he would get even that close... and I assumed it was the Mountains of Ered Luin, but now you've left me wondering if that's true. Ered Luin was what I was looking for anyway, the Sindarin name of the mountains that I thought Arvedui hid under, but since I may be wrong, it was a poor question! Legate, I will say you got it because you first mentioned the old dwarf mines. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

05-10-2007, 03:01 PM	#534
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well, this is sort of troubling, since if you were looking for Ered Luin, then I'd say Miggy got it. But... probably if we don't know for sure where the mines were, and if you don't want to use your right as the riddle-poster to say "for MY riddle, THIS answer is correct", then... ah, whatever, let the thread move - it will surely swap between us more times, so... Isildur is to Gil-Galad as Túrin is to _______ __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-10-2007, 03:08 PM	#535
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Ah, yes, sorry if I was a little unfair, Miggy, wasn't intended. I would say Turgon, because he was the reigning High King of the Noldor during Turin's lifetime, just as Gil-Galad was the High King of the Noldor for the most part of Isildur's lifetime. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

05-10-2007, 03:13 PM	#536
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	maybe Finwe Isildur killed Sauron and so avenged Gil-galad It has been prophesized that Turin would kill Melkor, and would thus avenge Finwe Why I picked him is because both he and Gil-galad were High Kings of the Noldor __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

05-10-2007, 03:19 PM	#537
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Beregond: Fine, but it's not that general (many people lived at the same time - this works both ways, it is more personal). Mig: Good idea, you did well to bring Sauron between them, though it's not what I was looking for. It's personal - so it relates to the people who really were in contact. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-12-2007, 09:07 PM	#538
Beanamir of Gondor Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: the Shadow Gallery Posts: 276	My first guess was Thingol, but I don't have a real reason and it feels stupid. I keep going back to the relationships between fathers, particularly because Elendil and Gil-Galad died in battle together. Perhaps something to do with Hurin, though I'm not sure what? But then Hurin outlived Turin... and Elendil died before Isildur. I also keep getting the images of the broken Anduril and Gurthang, though they were broken in different ways, and Gurthang was actually Turin's... __________________ The answer to life is no longer 42. It's 4 8 15 16 23... 42. "I only lent you my body; you lent me your dream."

05-13-2007, 01:55 AM	#539
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well, I might say you are, how should I say it, not knocking, but running around the right door __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-18-2007, 11:01 AM	#540
Beanamir of Gondor Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: the Shadow Gallery Posts: 276	Okay, let's see if I'm barking up the wrong tree... Isildur's father Elendil fought against Sauron (at Orodruin) with Gil-Galad. Meanwhile, Turin's father Hurin fought against Morgoth (at Thangorodrim) with Fingon. They were both crucial battles of their Age... but I'm not sure if Hurin -> Fingon is quite as strong of a tie as Gil-Galad -> Elendil. __________________ The answer to life is no longer 42. It's 4 8 15 16 23... 42. "I only lent you my body; you lent me your dream."

05-20-2007, 11:18 AM	#541
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Too complicated. So, the answer is no. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-28-2007, 07:14 AM	#542
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Maybe Beleg Just as Elendil's (and then Isildur's) sword and Gil-galad's spear fought against Sauron, so did Turin's sword and Beleg's bow fight against Morgoth. The idea is that all 4 all well known weapons. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

05-28-2007, 11:05 AM	#543
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Nope. Let's make it easier by widening the range (hopefully): Isildur is to Gil-Galad and Elendil as Túrin is to _______ and ________ __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-29-2007, 05:13 AM	#544
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Well, I guess my idea about Isildur avenging Elendil and Gil-galad by cutting the Ring off Sauron's hand makes sense. But Sauron was not killed, so I can't think of anyone Turin avenged without killing someone else. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

05-29-2007, 02:39 PM	#545
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	So then you must leave the idea of avenging, eh? Now it's not that hard (or I believe - but really, it isn't). Just think what else did Elendil&Gil-Galad in common in relation to Isildur - and think of the same with Túrin... __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

06-04-2007, 05:53 PM	#546
Beanamir of Gondor Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: the Shadow Gallery Posts: 276	Oh, why not: Huor! __________________ The answer to life is no longer 42. It's 4 8 15 16 23... 42. "I only lent you my body; you lent me your dream."

06-05-2007, 03:09 AM	#547
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Oh, why not, but it's wrong But anyway, we are looking for two names now... and it's far easier then I think... __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

06-05-2007, 12:28 PM	#548
Shards of Narsil Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33	How about Hurin and Thingol? Thingol was king of Doriath and Hurin was the leader of men at the time, as Gil-galad was king of Lindon and Elendil was king of men.

06-05-2007, 01:00 PM	#549
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Eee. Not what I had in mind (and someone I think already guessed very similar thing). Hint: Clear your mind. Now close your eyes and imagine these three together. What scenery do you see? __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

06-05-2007, 02:00 PM	#550
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Well I see Elendil and Gil-galad dying, then Isildur coming and avenging them. In the same way I'd see Turing avenge maybe Morwen and Nienor. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

06-05-2007, 02:22 PM	#551
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well, but Morwen was still alive So no, that's not it. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

06-05-2007, 03:34 PM	#552
Shards of Narsil Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33	Ah, so in keeping with TM's theme, then Turin would be avenging Finduilas and Beleg?

06-05-2007, 03:52 PM	#553
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Beleg? cough Well, he ultimately did "avenge" him, but Isildur surely didn't kill himself, you know. Sort of mixing apples and oranges here (uh? Which one is what, I wonder?). So, no. But I hope this chain of thoughts might hit someone with posing himself the right question. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

06-14-2007, 07:24 PM	#554
Beanamir of Gondor Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: the Shadow Gallery Posts: 276	I think I've read "Of Turin Turambar" fifty times now Okey doke, this might be a little bit of a stretch. But in both cases a v. important sword was involved, and everyone involved died. Hopefully this is at least the right scenario, and I've just picked the wrong characters... Gil-Galad and Elendil died fighting Sauron, whom Isildur managed to destroy. (Elendil just happened to be Isildur's father.) Meanwhile, Hunthor and Nienor died fighting Glaurung, whom Turin managed to destroy. (Nienor just happened to be Turin's sister.) __________________ The answer to life is no longer 42. It's 4 8 15 16 23... 42. "I only lent you my body; you lent me your dream."

06-15-2007, 04:35 AM	#555
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Finally... Okay. Take the thread, please. From the beginning I was looking for Hunthor, who was Túrin's companion in the final battle with Glaurung, but died. The same happened in the "kill Sauron" scenario: only Isildur survived, and he was the one who killed Sauron. I would accept Dorlas as the second answer as well. But the main thing was about Hunthor. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

06-15-2007, 06:23 AM	#556
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Hmm...I was thinking about that, but didn't think about Hunthor. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown