Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[satansaloser2005]

I'm here and vaguely conscious. What can Sally do for you all?

[Mirandir]

#4 Votes phantom for representative in her first post of the game. Either it's Elf-on-Elf (which I doubt) or she's just being silly (my money's on that option).

#8 Her posts are my two favorite numbers. Just sayin.
Anyway. Banteringly accuses Lottie of being and Elf. Responds to Dun's "siriusly? vote 4 phantom b4 he shows up?" essentially saying that if he's good she trusts his judgement, and if he's not she trusts he won't do something asinine like lynch the Seer Day 1.

#12 Promises cookies if everyone votes phantom as rep.

#13 Comments on Fea's awesome narration skills.

#48 Forgets there's only one gifted. Jokingly says Shasta and Nerwen are SoE. Is upset with Lommy yelling at her and Lottie for voting for phantom.

#63 Explains that while Days last 48 hours, only the first 24 are for voting for representatives to Glirdan. Goes to be a productive member of society.

#165 Returns. Is highly offended by suspicions of her.

#185 Clarifies nicknames.

Day 2
#326 Wants to know where suspicion of her came from yesterDay. Says Lottie's posts had air of wolfishness but didn't point it out because:

A: I wasn't very coherent, B: I didn't want to look like I was trying to save my hide, and C: I trusted Phantom to keep me around.

Now, I know she and phantom are having some sort of love affair of ridiculousness, but past experience has shown me that he doesn't keep people around unless he has a decent reason to do so, which I haven't seen (admittedly, I also haven't really looked).

Guilty vibes from: Vanilwa, Steve, Cel
Innocent vibes from: Nog, Legate
Insulted vibes from: Lommie

Claims voted phantom because there's few better ways to test him than to give him power, which is least dangerous on Day 1.
This is a concept I can get behind. Not so much the blind faith in him, but the testing of power thing.

#368 Defends phantom's Seer reveal as an attempt to save whoever was getting lynched (who happened to have fur and claws). Suspects he's just being tricksy again and wants to know why he didn't vote.

Responds to Shasta's suspicions that every post she made that Day was suspicious by saying she only posted once and essentially "wtfudge how was that evil?" Further response to Shasta saying that he would have preferred sally be lynched yesterDay than Lottie, who turned out to be a SoE. She's just as confused as I am on that one and

But saying "I wish we hadn't Fenris'd someone" is never okay to say. Never. Sure, say "We should lynch Sally and see what happens and what we can learn with both of them dead" but you can't say you'd rather I was dead than a proven elf. I can't understand why you would say this unless you were one too. Sorry, kid, but it's true.

Agrees with Legate that Izzy's Night-death made sense since she was a Lottie voter.

Basically....Shasta looks bad to me, based on that post, and Legate sees sense on many a level, which unfortunately doesn't mean he's innocent. Nerwen looks rightfully innocently frustrated with Phantom, so I won't be wanting to lynch her toDay, but I don't want her as a representative either, as I don't want Phantom dead....yet, at least.

#371 Would rather be suspected by the village and allowed to make a case for herself than Night killed.
Makes sense.

#374 Discusses fake seer reveals with Nerwen. Says doesn't think phantom had the reasoning or timing to do so. Discusses phantom with Nerwen.

et's say Phantom is a SoB....erm, SoE. *headdesks, couldn't resist* Knowing that Phantom is a dirty, lowdown, double-crossing scumbag (with love, dear), he would likely be happy to vote for a packmate. It would make him look good, in fact. Thus, why wouldn't he just pile his votes on and say "look at me, I killed Lottie" and add to his train of Reasons Not to Suspect Phantom? It would make sense to do so, and while yes, some people would likely call him out and say "but you didn't kill her, in fact she was already dead before you voted", he would still look good to the masses, his "vote me and I won't vote you" pledge aside.

Basically, a wolf!Phantom would bus his packmate if he got the chance and it was really advantageous for him to do so. I'm not saying he would kill a packmate just because he fancied it, but I feel that he would double cross a fellow wolf/elf/thing if the situation had desired benefits. Especially if said packmate was already dead, or mostly dead, or whatever.

Granted, I'm not saying that I trust Phantom completely, because he could have thought of all the above beforehand and predicted that I (or someone else) would say this exact thing in his defense, but I think that voting for Lottie would have, in that case, looked actually worse than not voting at all.

There's a lot of phantom-defending going on here and I'm not particularly seeing any reason why. I get that they're friends in RL, but a majority of her posts revolve around him. Wolf!sally is never this blatant about protecting packmates. Based on that, I seriously doubt that she or phantom is a wolf. Well, phantom might be, but I already said in a previous post I don't think he is.

#375 Agrees with Rune that two SoE didn't team up Day 1. Asks Nerwen if she is correct in thinking that sally and Lottie are not furry together.

#380 Talks about phantom more. Points out that we know he's not the Seer.

#383 Asks why Nerwen voted Shasta for rep.

#395 Apologizes to Shasta for misinterpreting him. Then tells him his reasoning fails.

Also, in regards to Nog's post below, I concur (on the Phantom bits). I'm not saying that I understand him, I'm saying that I can see reasoning for why his actions wouldn't be those of a wolf. Thus, for now, I want him alive.

#396

For those who don't have time to read Shasta's list in full....

Innocent: Anyone who agrees with him
Undecided: People who haven't specifically agreed/disagreed with him....yet
Guilty: People who don't buy all his rubbish

Seriously, he even says that's his reasoning for who he trusts. Read the post.

Foley seems correct? How would you know if her suspicions are correct unless you know everyone's roles? There's no other way to know if someone is "correct", and if you know roles you're either the seer (who can't possibly know enough roles to make this kind of judgement) or a son of an elvish trollop. So....that leaves?

...K. I get she's not thrilled with this whole "misunderstanding" thing going on, but this is awfully defensive when it doesn't need to be. Either she has really strong feelings that Shasta is furry that I have yet to get to, or she's insulted and acting out. Wolf!sally generally keeps her temper in check better than this.

#424 Responds to phantom's question of if anyone else is interested in seeing what she would do as a rep by claiming she'd kill an elf. Considering voting Nog.

#433 Doesn't want Vanilwa as a rep, but would be okay with Nog and could settle for Nerwen, but doesn't say why.

#437 Is not stoked Shasta is a rep. Most likely won't vote Nerwen. Would be happier with Nog.

#439 Votes Nog for rep.

#441 Asks phantom if he'd considering thirding Nog if he can't get someone else in power.

#464 Looks at the Day 1 rep votes. Finds Lottie's vote right after hers worrisome. Wants to know if Wilwa was making so much sense why Greenie voted for Nerwen instead of her. Doesn't draw any conclusions from Nog's vote for Izzy. Is not thrilled with my phantom vote but doesn't want to lynch me yet. Finds Cel's vote for Foley interesting. Finds Foley's vote for Cel confusing but not guilt-riddled.

#472 Agrees with Nog that Wilwa is fishy. Responds to Legate that she would like to see Wilwa or Cel killed.
I'm still not sure where the suspicion of Wilwa is coming from, though...

#482 Is stoked phantom agrees that Wilwa is calculating and thus potentially evil.
There aren't Lovers in this game, right? :P

#494 Pops in to say has internet troubles and might not be back.

xed since Foley's 516.

[Mirandir]

Aaaand fail Mira for not actually saying what that massive post boils down to.

Pretty much I don't find sally all that suspicious. She's getting upset when people try to suspect her and I'm still not quite sure where her suspicion of Wilwa is coming from (although in all fairness, I very well might have missed it in the rush to get this done before DL), but nothing about that screams SoE to me.

Now I really want to know Wilwa, Shasta, and phantom's roles are just to see if I'm going to get proven wrong.

[Folwren]

Okedoke...well....I've had an exhausting weekend, and I seriously cannot read straight...plus, I'm supposed to be at my brother's house five minutes ago.

But...even before Phantom told me two or three posts ago that Wilwa's vote for me as Rep was odd, I had decided so myself. I haven't had time to look at her other posts. I have read some of them...and I'm getting a bad feeling about her. And I think there is a possibility that she's linked to Sally.

Which brings me to Sally now. I don't trust her. But I didn't in my other game, either. I don't know her playing style well, but it seems she's MUCH more uptight this game than last. I am also basing some of my opinion off of a couple of posts by Greenie (I can't find them at this moment, but she said at least once today that Sally's posts seem elvish to her) where she said she didn't trust Sally.

That being said, I hate this business. I hate it more than I can really express, but from what LITTLE intuition I have (I say little in caps because I've only been here a grand total of ... less than thirty minutes, probably) I really have a bad feeling for Wilwa and Sally. I think Wilwa is covering Sally, and I think they're both potentially guilty.

So if this turns out bad, I'm sorry. Please don't kill me. It's not really fair.

++Sallyx2++

May the Balrog have mercy on our souls.

Cross posted with everything posted on this new page.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

You can, but it would take both your votes to make a difference where Sally is concerned.

Yes, dear, but was that what she was asking? I think not.



Shasta is being so bloody single-minded. Why?


ETA: x'd with Foley. Bloody....

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I'm here and vaguely conscious. What can Sally do for you all?

Forgive your humble...orc....friend...who just doomed you to death...? But only if you're innocent. If you're guilty, don't bother forgiving me.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, that's a double lynch, then, looks like.

Thanks for coming back even though you said you were going to be gone, Foley.

[satansaloser2005]

Mark this. MARK THIS NOW. Notice how Foley didn't even read before voting? At least not thoroughly? If/When Wilwa/Cel turn(s) out to be evil, remember that.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Forgive your humble...orc....friend...who just doomed you to death...? But only if you're innocent. If you're guilty, don't bother forgiving me.

Alas, my lass, I'm not forgiving you either way, at least not right now.


Sorry, loves, I just feel a bit ripped off that I've done my best to participate since Thursday (when my non-participation wasn't even my fault) and now I get killed.

Also, lynch Shasta for me. He's either evil or just a single-minded elf lover deep down.

I'm going back to bed, kthnx. Best of luck to the SoE, only because it will keep my "if I'm lynched as an innocent, the village loses" streak intact.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Mark this. MARK THIS NOW. Notice how Foley didn't even read before voting? At least not thoroughly? If/When Wilwa/Cel turn(s) out to be evil, remember that.

*Flushes hot* I did read. Not thoroughly, no, but how the great blazes did you expect me to read thoroughly? HONESTLY? I didn't do this lightly, and I'm sorry. I really am. I'll be especially sorry if you end up innocent, but Sally, I don't trust you, ahd I haven't, not since the beginning of the game, I haven't.

I'm sorry.

I do have to go, though. I'm almost twenty minutes late.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Folwren

*Flushes hot* I did read. Not thoroughly, no, but how the great blazes did you expect me to read thoroughly? HONESTLY? I didn't do this lightly, and I'm sorry. I really am. I'll be especially sorry if you end up innocent, but Sally, I don't trust you, ahd I haven't, not since the beginning of the game, I haven't.

I'm sorry.

I do have to go, though. I'm almost twenty minutes late.

I don't expect you to read all the way through, but you don't instigate a double lynch without really, REALLY good reason. Unless you're evil.

*dies, goes back to the happy land of sleep*

In all honesty, I don't care who wins, as I've not been healthy most of this game. Sorry, but tis true. Thus, my allegiance lies to my record. SoE, eat them all!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I don't expect you to read all the way through, but you don't instigate a double lynch without really, REALLY good reason. Unless you're evil.

*dies, goes back to the happy land of sleep*

In all honesty, I don't care who wins, as I've not been healthy most of this game. Sorry, but tis true. Thus, my allegiance lies to my record. SoE, eat them all!

Calm down. Foley specifically said she wasn't going to be here and didn't want to be a rep, she was made one anyway, she did the best she could under the circumstances.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Calm down. Foley specifically said she wasn't going to be here and didn't want to be a rep, she was made one anyway, she did the best she could under the circumstances.

I'm not mad at Foley, I just think she's evil. I know she did her best, but given the people I suspect you KNOW I have to find that suspicious. I just have to.

[the phantom]

So, in summary, the two ladies who wished to lynch each other are both going to be lynched.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I'm not mad at Foley, I just think she's evil. I know she did her best, but given the people I suspect you KNOW I have to find that suspicious. I just have to.

Also, to clarify this, I sympathize with her being made a rep against her will. So it's not like I think she hatched a great big conspiracy toDay or anything. But she could have not voted, see, which would have been more responsible in my opinion.

[the phantom]

Okay people. Night-time. Tomorrow, do NOT lynch- Lommy or Mira.

Good luck.

[Nienna]

Mmk children, stop posting. Deadline.

Wilwa and Sally have both been killed. Narration and roles to follow.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Sessa and Sally have died. They were both ordos.

Night Three now begins. Elf and Co, do your thing. Seer, lay it on me.

Dead:
Feanorc and Niennorc - beheaded in the dark
Lottielf (Elladan) - axed in the head
Izanordorc (ordo) - head cut off in her sleep
Borc (ordo) - nommed some poison by accident
Glirdan (ordo) - accidental broken heart
Wilwa (ordo) and Sally (ordo) - crushed to death by khup-khaks.

Alive:
Celuien
Foley
Greenie
Kath
Legate
Lommy
Mira
Nerwen
Nog
Phantom
Rune
Shasta
Steve
Zil

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Nogrod has been Night killed. He was an ordo.

Day now begins. Elfy baby wockies, cease your PMing.

Dead:
Feanorc and Niennorc - beheaded in the dark
Lottielf (Elladan) - axed in the head
Izanordorc (ordo) - head cut off in her sleep
Borc (ordo) - nommed some poison by accident
Glirdan (ordo) - accidental broken heart
Wilwa (ordo) and Sally (ordo) - crushed to death by khup-khaks.
Nog (ordo) - sworded by a ninja elf in his sleep

Alive:
Celuien
Foley
Greenie
Kath
Legate
Lommy
Mira
Nerwen
Phantom
Rune
Shasta
Steve
Zil

[Nerwen]

Question: can we take it the Elves thought Nog was the Seer? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised even without the narration, because he hinted at it quite a bit yesterDay.

Now, Shasta and Foley– what did you two mean by lynching Wilwa and Sally? I thought we'd all agreed they couldn't be fellows?

[Mirandir]

x...The people I was going to make a case against need to stop being killed. They definitely need to stop being ordos too, because that's just leading me to question everything I've been thinking all game. Looks like Ima go reevaluate. Elfpoodoo.

[Inziladun]

Nog, eh? I don't guess it's surprising, considering that he was giving what could easily have been taken as Seer-hints.

Bad stuff at the end of yesterDay, with the double-lynch. It might be tough sifting out the suspicious-looking votes, since we know at least one known innocent was involved.

x/d with Nerwen and Mira

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, Shasta and Foley– what did you two mean by lynching Wilwa and Sally? I thought we'd all agreed they couldn't be fellows?

Shasta did say he wasn't opposed to it, didn't he? Did he say before he didn't want to lynch Sally? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[Inziladun]

Actually, I had it backwards. It was Sally he wanted to lynch, and Wilwa he at first said he didn't.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I don't at all like the way Legate has voted today. Especially for Celuien, of all people, who's made all of, what, eight posts? More the point, he voted specifically to save Sally, which makes me want to lynch her more. I'm not really agreeing with the suspicion of Wilwa right now - the most suspicious thing that has stood out for me is actually her most recent post, where she basically begs for her life.

[highlight++Sally++/highlight]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

To sum up, Foley -

If you vote Wilwa, she dies.
If you vote Celuien, she dies.
If you vote Sally, Sally and Wilwa both die (and this might not be a bad thing).
If you vote anyone else, Wilwa dies.
If you don't vote, Wilwa dies.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Shasta did say he wasn't opposed to it, didn't he? Did he say before he didn't want to lynch Sally? Or am I thinking of someone else?

I believe he had actually said he would have preferred Sally lynched over Lottie Day 1 and still wanted her dead after that. There was something about a misunderstanding about that though which my shoddy memory doesn't recall perfectly.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Shasta did say he wasn't opposed to it, didn't he? Did he say before he didn't want to lynch Sally? Or am I thinking of someone else?

He wanted to lynch Sally. I'm just saying that Shasta, anyway, should have known that the double-lynch was bound to kill at least one innocent.

Of course, if it had got a wolf as well, I guess I wouldn't be complaining now.

EDIT:X'd with Mirandir and Zil.

[Inziladun]

Not sure what to make of Foley. Not the greatest vote, but her reactions afterward looked fairly genuine. And like Nerwen said, it'd be hailed as brilliant if she'd got an Elf.

[Folwren]

I am not really here. I'm at a friend's house and only had like two seconds to check this. Just wanted to say-

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, Shasta and Foley– what did you two mean by lynching Wilwa and Sally? I thought we'd all agreed they couldn't be fellows?

I was actually not around to agree on anything...I had no idea and that was one thing I didn't pick up on. So sorry.

[Nerwen]

I'm looking at Nogrod here on the assumption that the wolves thought he was the Seer, which as we'll see he hinted at very heavily– with a view to working out who the wolves might have thought his dreams were. I've included his thoughts on dead players, because a "Seer" talking about players with known roles in the same terms as unknowns can be a clue about whether he's actually hinting. (Does that make sense?)

Nogrod, Day 1, first half.

#57.

Originally Posted by Nog.

This Sally - Lottie - tp triangle looks just a bit too obvious to be true. But the moral highground of Shasta - Nerwen - Lommy trio is kind of too neat as well. And the carefulness of Legate -Zil - Glirdy looks soo suspicious...

Suspicious of tp's promise not to lynch those who elect him.


#87. Discusses voting strategy. Wants multiple reps.


#88. Ditto.


#89. Ditto.


#102.

Originally Posted by Nog.

So how is it... tp has two votes (enough) and Lommy and Nerwen have one each?

I have nothing against those three ending up as representatives. Basically I have nothing against more or less ayone becoming a representative at this stage of the game: it would be interesting to learn more about everyone.

Rep-votes Izzy.


#104. Voting strategy. Frustrated at Mira.


#219. Very suspicious of phantom. Boro is "odd" and Legate's posting "makes him nervous".

Originally Posted by Nog

But I can say right now that you reps should have very strong reasons if you would lynch Shasta. It's not the fact that he argues against tp (tp might be innocent anyway), but it's the way he does it. I'd be almost as assured of Foley's innocence, but not just that much.

#244. Considers lynching phantom. Suspicious of Sally and Lottie. Doesn't like me, both for "attacking" Mira and "defending" Boro. Disputes Lommy's belief that SoE among the reps would be bad. Suspicious of Boro.


#246.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Great udders of relief! Kath is here, naturally - on technical terms - missing D1...

#250. Highly critical of phantom's explanations for his conduct.


#255. List. Suspects me, Boro, Lottie and the phantom. "50-50" about Sally; torn about Izzy; tends to trust Wilwa and Rune. Is slightly more suspicious of Shasta than before and less so of Legate.

Originally Posted by Nog

Mira I think was clearly someone who didn't read the thread - and as such not someone I would vote for a representative (another promise here) - and where Nerwen's attack on her looks like reeally bad.

257. Lists Celuien, Glirdy, Greenie, Kath, Steve and Inzil as those of whom he has little to say.

Comments: Who, then, could his "Night One dream" have been? It's difficult to say, and in fact it's possible the wolves didn't look too hard at Day One, since the hints on Day Two would likely have been enough to make them jump on him, as long as there was no glaring anomaly, such as proclaiming one of them an innocent. At a guess, it could be Lottie (Elf, obviously) or Mira (innocent)– this based on the way he overreacts to my very mild "attack" on her. He is, of course, also very suspicious of the phantom.


Nogrod, Day 2, first half.

#386. "I'm here".


#391. Sally posts suspiciously, but probably not an Elf because of Lottie's actions.

Originally Posted by Nog

Also, I think the phantom is innocent - and is no seer. If he wasn't dreamt of yet by the seer then now he is. So let's leave him be. Also, if I'm right in what he is doing he makes perfect sense in his own way we all should be used to.

#393.

Originally Posted by Nog

phantom: Just a question. What if your initial premise is wrong? I'm somehow getting more and more worried it might be... I mean you have a decent quess there but the world might work differently.

#400. Virtually a repeat of #391. Again argues that Sally is innocent because of Lottie's vote, and says of phantom:

Originally Posted by Nog

phantom's actions just cry for the seer to dream of him. And looking at the mess he has managed to make - two Days more or less talking only about him - would make the seer more or less irresponsible if s/he didn't dream of him and check him.

If you think you are bored to talk about tp then let him be and leave him to the seer.

#405. Considers who to vote for rep. Would have liked Rune, except that his drunkenness would give him an "alibi", making his lynch-vote hard to read. Legate "observant" but hard to read. Tends to trust Lommy for her vote and because "her frustrations felt genuine".


#407.

Originally Posted by Nog

Welcome to the club!

I could actually return the amazement... and the implications.

#410. Votes Legate for rep.



Nogrod, Day 2, second half.

#454. Thinks Sally and tp innocent, wants to check Lottie's other contacts.


#469. After checking, agrees with me that she didn't really have any. Explains belief that Sally and tp should be left to the Seer in vague terms:

Originally Posted by Nog

Well, so far (from the mid of D1 about) I have been guided by an interpretation of the general situation that points it being wiser to check them and not lynch them right away.

Makes a case for Wilwa's being an Elf.


#475. Wilwa suspicious. Rune's composure might be Elvish. "Needs to look" at Zil and Cel.

Originally Posted by Nog

Sally I would leave to the seer as I said before. Someone actually noted that it might take a few Days before the seer comes out - that's just the better, for that would mean more information.

#480. Analyses Cel. Finds her less worrying than before. Replies to Shasta:

Originally Posted by Nog

Tell me Shasta, why not to wait for the seer and be cool with it? Give me one good reason. And first of all think...

#485.

phantom: stop that "I'm the known orc and everyone's having a conspiracy to lynch me" -parade, please.

#489. Agrees with Shasta that there is a possible bandwagon on Wilwa, but still finds her the best option.


#491. QUotes rules about the OoUA, bolding the following passage.

Originally Posted by Nog

You all know the choice has been made toDay.

#492. Votes to lynch Wilwa. (Wilwa 2)

Comments: Based on this, it looks as if his supposed Night 2 dream was either Sally (innocent) or the phantom (innocent)– the latter would be the most logical, especially given how much Nogrod had suspected him the Night before (although the same is true of Sally to a lesser extent).

By innocent here I just mean "non-Elf", since I am trying to look at this from the Elvish point of view, and they of course only know who they are. (As a little side-note, though, if I'm right in guessing the wolves think or thought of phantom as a possible OoUA, Nog's cryptic post at #491 might have been taken as confirmation of this.)

There is one point against all this: Nogrod's post at #485, where he tells phantom to stop saying he's a known Orc– is that something a Seer would say to a person he'd dreamed?

The other, very outside possibility is that he "dreamed" Greenie as an Elf– see #407. However, the fact that Nog said no more of this, and was more than happy to lynch someone else should have tipped the Elves off, not to mention the fact that his actual "hint" posts (#391, #400, #469, #480) were all about the phantom and Sally. Still, Elves do panic sometimes.

EDIT:X'd since my last post.

[A Little Green]

Erm.. what the eff happened yesterDay? Also, it seems I've been barking up the wrong tree for two Days. Sorry Sally. But why Wilwa? What were the arguments against her? I should go back and check I suppose.

As for Nog - it's possible that the elves read his "Leave that to the Seer" -comments as hints. It's pretty paranoid but elves are bound to be. As for Nerwen's theory about him - well it's pretty clear that a Nog-Seer's second dream would have been phantom:

Originally Posted by Nog

Also, I think the phantom is innocent - and is no seer. If he wasn't dreamt of yet by the seer then now he is. So let's leave him be.

Which would logically mean that if the elves killed Nog as a potential Seer, phantom is innocent. It would be ingenious though for a phantomelf and his pack to kill Nog (who they would more or less know was not the Seer, but would be seen by the village as a potential one). A pretty perfect cover for a phantomelf. Then again, a) I still believe phantom is innocent, and b) the elves would have been plain crazy not trying to target the Seer last Night.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The other, very outside possibility is that he "dreamed" Greenie as an Elf– see #407. However, the fact that Nog said no more of this, and was more than happy to lynch someone else should have tipped the Elves off, not to mention the fact that his actual "hint" posts (#391, #400, #469, #480) were all about the phantom and Sally. Still, Elves do panic sometimes.

This logic doesn't make sense to me. I know I'm not an elf but I also know you can't know it. The thing is, it doesn't make sense even if I was an elf. It would take a ridiculously paranoid pack of elves to read #407 as a Seer hint, especially as Nog didn't behave towards me in a manner that would suggest him "knowing" I was an elf.

Back in a dash with a few responses to what was said yesterDay..

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

Are you always this optimistic? Because I almost want to suspect you for it, as it is usually quite difficult to convince me of my chances until something is nearly in the bag or the odds are stacked heavily in favor, and even then I tend to worry and fear the worst. Blast you and your different way of thinking!

Ahem. I seem to recall discussing this with you before. But yes, I do have a tendency to optimism, I see it as kind of essential in a game like this. You can't play werewolf with an attitude of "it doesn't matter what I do, the elves are going to win anyway".

Originally Posted by Shasta

Greenie, do you have a comment? Oh, I see you answered this very thing in #468. Hmm. This reply makes sense, but I'm not sure if it really has to do with Sally's point.

Well, that's how I understood it.. If you understood Sally's point differently, feel free to re-formulate it and I'll try to answer it as best I can.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

People who don't look so good:
Sally- As than the early rep-vote yesterDay, her responses just don't seem honest. However, because of the Lottie thing, I don't think she would be as likely to be an Elf, though there still is enough of a possibility for me to be willing to vote for her.
Wilwa- Everything she says makes me more convinced of her Elvishness. And she split her vote yesterDay when she could have used them both on Lottie, which seems like a very Elvsih thing to do, as I said earlier (She can cover herself by having voted an elf, but didn't use all her voting power to actually get her killed).

It's kind of curious that his list of "people who don't look so good" consists of the two main suspects of yesterDay, both of whom were lynched, both of whom turned out innocent. Maybe even too safe for an elf? I'd like to go back and have a look at when he started suspecting these two.

Originally Posted by phantom

Oh, I know you could, but I was just saying that it'd be more subtle and clever for you to just vote for someone likely to vote for me (as you did) and then use your three votes on someone no one has voted for (as you did) leaving the door wide open for me to be lynched. With two vocal anti-phantom reps (Foley & Shasta) you might've even bet on it. It just totally seems like something that I would do as a baddie. If you are a baddie- kudos for the scheme. If you're a goodie, I will have no choice but to fly to Europe after the game and punch you.

I find it rather amusing that you consider it a baddie's automatic top priority to get rid of you.

[Thinlómien]

That's something I did not quite expect - which is funny for like people have said he was really talking about the seer so much that you couldn't help wondering if he was him. Somebody should check what he said about people though, there shouldn't be anything that's too drastically against the truth though because then the wolves would never thave thought he coud be the seer. Ok I see Nerwen did that. Thanks - although that wasn't too enlightening!

As for the lynch, it was quite eyebrow-raising, but I'm thinking I might have done the same in Foley's place. While the chances weren't high they'd both be wolves, it seemed quite probable to me at least that one of them has to be a wolf, and that seemed like a quick way to find out... unfortunately it was a disaster.

(By the way, I had a dream there was some ww game where my role was Théoden and I got killed by the lynched hunter who had a huge spear/pole arm/ something. It was quite gross. Glad there are noi hunters in this game. )

Shall post more soon, for example look at yesterDay's stuff that happened after I left...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm hmm. Shall be back a bit later with more posting, but just for now, the initial impressions: I also think it's likely that Nog's death is related to his "leave this to the Seer, leave this to the Seer" comments; although I must also wonder, why, if it was so, did the Wolves find him worth targeting while they didn't find phantom so, who said straightaway that he was the Seer. There is of course the option that phantom is one of them, but there are also many other options, like simply that Nogrod was somehow more precise in picking the "right" and "wrong" Wolves... though from Nerwen's analysis, it does not seem like he had any clear suspects or non-suspects. Or the Wolves just really were paranoid.

As for the double-lynch yesterDay, it was certainly not a good thing in the outcome, but then again, I think back then, I wouldn't have objected much either as it seemed that there is a large chance that at least one Wolf would be lynched. Foley's reaction related to that seemed rather innocentish, she would have to be a good actor for that.

Will be back later...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

It would take a ridiculously paranoid pack of elves to read #407 as a Seer hint, especially as Nog didn't behave towards me in a manner that would suggest him "knowing" I was an elf.

Er... which is pretty much what I said in that bit you're quoting.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Hmm hmm. Shall be back a bit later with more posting, but just for now, the initial impressions: I also think it's likely that Nog's death is related to his "leave this to the Seer, leave this to the Seer" comments; although I must also wonder, why, if it was so, did the Wolves find him worth targeting while they didn't find phantom so, who said straightaway that he was the Seer.

Because the circumstances of phantom's reveal made it rather obviously fake.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Because the circumstances of phantom's reveal made it rather obviously fake.

Yes, well. Though reading what Nog was saying, I am not sure how much more "subtle" his Seer-comments were. I mean, a Seer does not usually go around shouting "leave everything to the Seer". It seems to me that the only difference is, basically, that phantom said "I am the Seer", while Nog just kept talking about a Seer.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Yes, well. Though reading what Nog was saying, I am not sure how much more "subtle" his Seer-comments were. I mean, a Seer does not usually go around shouting "leave everything to the Seer". It seems to me that the only difference is, basically, that phantom said "I am the Seer", while Nog just kept talking about a Seer.

I know, but it could be enough to make the difference between whether the wolves think it worth killing someone or not.

[Thinlómien]

Okay comments on yesterDay...

Sally's innocence could imply phantom's innocence since he could've saved Lottie by voting Sally and he tends to protect his fellows.

Originally Posted by Nog

Rune is more composed and he's not getting mad at anyone. So should I count it as suspicious? Agreeableness sure is one of the general trademarks of the elves.

Funny you should say this because that was one of the reasons why I half-subconsciously considered him innocent. Weird.

Originally Posted by Shasta-ta-taaa

My feelings are so hurt.

Doesn't mean I don't love you anyway. I just find it difficult to trust you in ww after that one horrid game and in this game you haven't come across as particularily innocent (or particularily guilty).

Originally Posted by Shasta

Well, someone needs to drive home the point that, no, you can't have everything your way. Everyone else (except Nerwen) seems too intimidated!

Or then others just think it's better to let him live in the imaginary world inside his small head than start arguing with him since he seems pretty harmless atm...

By the way, this game has been quite lousy when it comes to voting. Everyone vote toDay, ok?

Innocent...?
Folwren - her agony yesterDay seemed genuine and innocent.
phantom - I think I know what he's up to. Score! Could be wrong though.

In re-consideration (since two of my suspects were revealed innocent)
Greenie and Legate - I still think them mostly innocent but I have started to fear they're fooling me. I don't like Legate's vote yesterDay, there's just something fishy and forced in it.
Steve and Zil - well there never was much "proof" for their innocence anyway. I'm wondering... they are both kind of slipping under my radar while giving a quite innocent impression. Will probably pay more attention to them from now on.
Rune - people questioning his innocence yesterDay made me more suspicious of him. He should be around more.

Still no clue
Shasta - this guy is an enigma.
Mira - all fish: not around much, making analyses twenty minutes before DL and all that kind of weird stuff. But I think the most probable scenario is that she's innocent and just making me suspicious as always. Far from sure though...
Kath - quite frankly, no idea even though she's been around more.
Nerwen - is actually starting to lean innocent but not so much that I'd put her to the innocent category.

Still suspicious
Celuien - and still with as few reasons as before... Gut-feeling.

Doesn't really make me happy we still have three wolves around. Well, if we lose, I blame Boro and Glirdy.


edit: xed with several, not sure which ones though...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am around, but there is so much I have missed. . . . so much to read up on. I think will go back and look over the votes and then return with my thoughts.

btw it is quite ironic that Wilwa should be the victim of a double lynch.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am not going to complain about the lynched, since I was not around I don't think I have too much of a right. I can definitely see why people voted for either Wilwa or Sally even though they would not have been my first choices.

Folwren shows up and goes for the double lynch, much to the annoyance of Sally. Can we blame her? I think not, we made her a representative and she made a decision that she felt was right. I know that Sally was of the opinion that she should not have used her vote at all, but I don't think that would have been any more responsible at all.

I hope I do not get in trouble for saying this. . . I mean it is all friendly and not looking for conflict, I have been told that this is the trade mark of a SoE.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Er... which is pretty much what I said in that bit you're quoting.

I know! The difference is that you seemed to consider it as a possibility, whereas I don't - even if I was a SoE it would be so ridiculously paranoid that I don't think it would be an option.

Originally Posted by Rune

I hope I do not get in trouble for saying this. . . I mean it is all friendly and not looking for conflict, I have been told that this is the trade mark of a SoE.

Talking about ironic.. The post otherwise looked very very innocent to me, all except for the bit where you hope it doesn't look suspicious.