WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales

[Boromir88]

Ugh this is going to sound terrible, but I really have not considered who I would vote for, other than Nogrod and well I said I'd wait.

Lets see...I'm good with Rikae, Mith, Nerwen and Lommy. I also like what I've recently seen from Shasta, his recent posts remind me of our time in Fea's Republic. I just want to see more.

I am not as sold on Inziladun's innocence as I was yesterday, but don't feel it's worth the pursuit of a vote today.

My suspicions on Mac are more about his reaction to my reasons for voting for Nogrod, so today I won't vote for him.

I'm also more suspicious of Kath, but well she's not feeling well and I would like to wait at least until tomorrow.

Izzy I think is a co-conspirator, her 'sarcastic' responses to Rikae look very suspicious and I will vote for her today.

Gwath showed up late yesterday, we'll see what happens today, but my courtesy is only for a day, and if he doesn't show up and to start showing some good, I will vote for him.

Sally...has completely slipped my mind and I have no idea, which means it's probably not a good idea for a vote. Same with Eonwe, his appearance has me slightly suspicious, yep it's really just a gut-feeling right now, so same with sally.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rikae

How would they know that? If Greenie is a cobbler, she's just guessing - and they don't, I assume, know that she isn't. Unless that was a slip of some sort...

Okay, you're right, they don't, I was hasty when phrasing it. There's a smaller chance of her being gifted than others being gifted because if Greenie is the seer - which is probable from our point of view and from theirs as well if Nerwen's not one of them like this scenario assumes - she is not gifted and if Greenie is a cobbler it's still unlikely she had named a gifted (but of course not any more unlikely than anyone else being gifted in this village and some people are even though they have the just as small percentual probability to be as others). Am I making any sense?

edit: xed with Boro

[Thinlómien]

Boro, what's the point in lynching Izzy if she's a mere co-conspirator? It's one vote away from the baddies, but it may be a misguided vote and it won't affect the numbers. I think it doesn't make sense to vote possible cobblers anytime else than in the direst need (ie when having absolutely no idea about the wolves' identity).

[Boromir88]

Yes but () Dr Boro, my problem is that I'm going in cycles - game by game I learn to be more and more self-confident and once I finally start trsuting myself I get everything totally wrong and then I have to start building the trust all over again. *sigh* But don't you worry about that and I never said I'm not trusting my gut-feeling of you for now - I am - but I keeping it open for revision (which is just sensible).~Lommy

If you're evil you should be ashamed to manipulating me (and the crew) like this, playing the "I'm not confident defense." But if you're innocent than this should prove you have plenty of self-confidence, just don't let the inevitable "hiccups" mess you up.

[Boromir88]

I don't know...maybe because a cobbler is better than an innocent? Although, you make a good point and lynching a cobbler would be even really less pointless in this set up, considering he/she would still be a ghost and could post.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If you're evil you should be ashamed to manipulating me (and the crew) like this, playing the "I'm not confident defense." But if you're innocent than this should prove you have plenty of self-confidence, just don't let the inevitable "hiccups" mess you up.

If you're evil you should be ashamed of manipulating me by playing my personal psychologist, but if you're innocent this game should prove you'd make a great tutor. We're even, right?

edit: xed with Boro again

[Thinlómien]

I'm going to go to sleep now.

++Sally

It's the best suspicion I have and it seems it would be easier for me to concentrate if I didn't have to keep reminding myself of her existence and suspiciousness and wondering about her in future.

I hope I can go after Mac or Nogrod or Kath toMorrow, if needs be.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If you're evil you should be ashamed of manipulating me by playing my personal psychologist, but if you're innocent this game should prove you'd make a great tutor. We're even, right?

We're even now

I am going out to enjoy a late dinner, and will be no where near Salmon, so there is no worry in me falling asleep before the DL...I guess I should avoid turkey though, shouldn't I, that always puts me to sleep?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I guess I should avoid turkey though, shouldn't I, that always puts me to sleep?

Yes you should.

One last thing before I go:


Rikae -> Gwath
Nerwen -> Gwath
Mith -> Sally
Lommy -> Sally

Gwath 2, Sally 2


Good night!

[Isabellkya]

What a bunch of quick flip-floppers you are.
Mind pointing out where I even hinted or suggested a claim to Huntership Rikae?

This is so freaking irritating and obvious it isn't even funny anymore.

++Izzy.

[Thinlómien]

Wow, Izzy, either you are really frustrated or truly a cobbler. *shrugs*

[Eönwë]

Day 1:

Rikae ++Inzil
Eomer ++Mira
Boro ++Noggie
Kath ++Eonwe
Shasta ++Boro
Eonwe ++Rikae
Greenie ++Shasta
Lommy ++Cabby
Wilwa ++Greenie
Mac ++Noggie (2)
Inzil ++Cabbie (2)
Boro --Noggie(1)
Annu ++Noggie (2)
Boro ++Shasta (2)
Rikae --Inzil (0)
Rikae ++Cabby (3)
Mac --Noggie(0)
Noggie ++Cabbie (4)
Sally ++Shasta (3)
Mac ++Noggie (1) <2>
Gwath ++Wilwa
Didn't vote: Nerwen, Izzy, Mith, Cabbie, Mira

Lynch: Cabbie


Night 2
Kill: Greenie


Day 2:
Nerwen ++Inzil
Mith ++Noggie
Annu ++Shasta
Rikae ++Shasta (2)
Kath ++Annu
Eomer ++Mira <2>
Shasta ++Rikae
Wilwa ++Eonwe
Rikae --Shasta (1)
Rikae ++Mira (2)
Noggie ++Eomer
Mac ++Eomer (2)
Boro ++Mira (3)
Inzil ++Annu (2)
Gwath ++Mira (4)
Izzy ++Mac
Didn't vote: Sally, Lommy, Eonwe

Lynch: Mira

Night 3:
Kill: Eomer

Day 3:
Sally ++Shasta <2>
Noggie ++Annu
Boro ++Noggie <2>
Rikae ++Sally
Mith ++Noggie (2)
Shasta ++Annu (2)
Wilwa ++Gwath
Eonwe ++Gwath (2)
Nerwen ++Rikae
Kath ++Annu (3) <2>
Lommy ++Gwath (3)
Inzil ++Rikae (2)
Mac ++Gwath (4)
Nerwen --Rikae (1)
Izzy +Noggie (2)
Nerwen ++Annu (4)
Gwath ++Annu (5)
Didn't vote: Annu

Night 4
Modfired: Wilwa

(x)=number of votes each person recieved
<x>=number of votes given by one person to another (repeat voting)
Italic=retraction
Bold=alive now

All votes in order

edit: x-ed since Mith's post

[Eönwë]

I have no idea who to vote and I should have gone to sleep around half an hour ago.

[Eönwë]

Ok, well I'm going to vote:

++Sally

Because she is in deep hibernation under Rudolph, and in voting she only seems to want to vote because she is is forced to, as if she doesn't really want to be answerable for her actions.


edit: triple post. 'Tis a quiet time again now.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

What a bunch of quick flip-floppers you are.
Mind pointing out where I even hinted or suggested a claim to Huntership Rikae?

This is so freaking irritating and obvious it isn't even funny anymore.

++Izzy.

Care to come out and say whatever it is you're hinting at? That was my best guess.

[Inziladun]

This has been a busy RL day, and the time draweth nigh that I must be off yet again to work.

Boro seems to have been pretty active toDay. Beyond disagreeing with him about the ghost-lynchings I have no particular inclinations.

Mac seems different today, more reserved, but flu could explain that.

Lommy sets off no warning bells.

Shasta hasn't really been here today. Could be RL stuff, like me. I'm not feeling much like he's a mutineer, at any rate.

Izzy has an air of crafty menace about her, raising some hackles when she appears, then somehow sinking back into the gloom unnoticed. Then you forget about her until she posts again. Now she says something is 'so freaking irritating and obvious', then doesn't explain what she means. And votes herself?! Would a real mutineer do that? If so, why?

Kath gets a pass for illness.

Ëonwë is another one whom it's easy for me to forget. He seems to make decent points and doesn't feel very foul.

Nogrod isn't here. I have to wonder if the lack of a night kill isn't somehow connected with his absence, but there's absolutely no proof of that.

Gwath gets a pass unless I see something more concrete.

Mith looks to be innocent and helpful.

With a decision having to come now, it's:

++ Sally, for the strange behaviour after the Rikae reveal.

Night, all.

Edit- x'd with Rikae

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm really feeling unsure about this Sally-wagon...

[Macalaure]

About the non-dead Nerwen: It's understandable that they didn't kill her right away (likely ranger protection) and last night, well. Not surprised she's still living at all.

Originally Posted by Boro

I'm not so much suspicious of Mith's post as I am, the sudden spurt of posts after it...I mean after a pretty slow day, between mostly Lommy, Rikae, Mac, and myself, everyone starts popping out of the woodworks.

That... doesn't make any sense at all. Do you think the mutineers agreed on a specific time to suddenly take over the thread?

Originally Posted by Boro

My suspicions on Mac are more about his reaction to my reasons for voting for Nogrod, so today I won't vote for him.

There's one problem with your logic behind that: If Nogrod actually gets lynched, then what? You still won't know his role, and therefore you will still not be any smarter about my role in turn. That's one of the challenges of this game: As long as we don't kill anybody twice, you need to make up your mind about each person independently.


I don't like all those weak-reasoned Sally-votes.

[Rikae]

Hm, this Boro and Mac thing is looking rather wolf-on-wolfish. They argue and almost make a show of distrust while not really going after each other... then on the other hand, both of them are good enough players to make wolf-on-wolf suspicion look real if they want to...

[Rikae]

Mac, explain to me why your general blandness and lack of opinions in this game does not mean you're a wolf. *taps toe*

[Macalaure]

Just had my closer look at Boro and ended up with these conclusions: (I don't feel good enough to give you the "meat" (in a decipherable format), too. Borro be postin' a-plenty.)

- I dislike his obsession with Shasta as justification for his Day1-vote.
- His case against Nogrod doesn't look as far-fetched on second look - at first. The reasons he piles on from Day3 on are not convincing anymore. But this is just what an over-fixated ordo might end up with.
- His determined advocation to lynch Mira looks genuine.
- I already stated that his "lynch Nog first and then Mac" idea is not well thought through. Boro is usually not the type to not think things through.
- It looks very evil that he likes us to double-kill McCaber if he thinks he's innocent. Obviously, a known mutineer would serve us much, much better. It's connected with his fixation on Nogrod, though.
- There is a buddy-buddiness going on between Boro and Lommy that I don't know what to think of.
- That "yes", "no", "but" -thing looks mighty evil to me.

I could see an innocent Boro behaving this way, but there are plenty of stains that make me doubt it. I can't justify making him my top suspect at this point, but he's certainly up there.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Mac, explain to me why your general blandness and lack of opinions in this game does not mean you're a wolf. *taps toe*

Haha! Now that's a compliment. Actually, if I really am bland and lack opinions, it indeed would usually mean I'm a wolf. That's part of my basic strategy. Since having a flu probably doesn't count as explanation, I guess I can only give you the nearly complete lack of information to deduce anything from. I'll be more edgy eventually, promise.

[Boromir88]

Hm, this Boro and Mac thing is looking rather wolf-on-wolfish.~Rikae

If Mac's a wolf, I'm sure that's what he's attempting to make it look like...if I was one, I would most likely be doing it too. My suspicions our sincere though.

That... doesn't make any sense at all. Do you think the mutineers agreed on a specific time to suddenly take over the thread?~Mac

I feel like I'm the only one who has to explain random observations, where now for some reason there's a counter reaction to the sally votes. I mean granted she gets some questionable votes, but just as fast has people jumping on the "this lynch sally wagon is strange" counter bandwagon. And that happened just as fast as the first wagon. The "trend" in WW changes faster than trendy clothes

Anyway, I will explain it Mac. In the Republic I made a random observation about something, (I can't tell you off the top of my head what it is, but if you insist I'll look it up for you). It was pretty slow at the time, and out of the blue Brinn, Shasta, and 3rd person decided to suddenly pop in and speak.

Obviously I didn't believe all three of them were evil, but it looked pretty wierd to see three people(who had been absent for most if not all the day) suddenly pop in to say something. As it turned out Brinn was the baddie. I just randomly noticed the same thing, Mith makes an observation, and after long absenses 3 people suddenly decided they had comments. If you read what I said in a post after, I liked what I saw from Shasta (so your point that I was saying all 3 mutineers agreed on a time to post is wrong). But it has made me suspicious of Inziladun and Eonwe, because of the past in Fea's Republic.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Haha! Now that's a compliment. Actually, if I really am bland and lack opinions, it indeed would usually mean I'm a wolf. That's part of my basic strategy. Since having a flu probably doesn't count as explanation, I guess I can only give you the nearly complete lack of information to deduce anything from. I'll be more edgy eventually, promise.

Wow, that's... just the sort of thing you would say to me as a wolf.

[Boromir88]

- There is a buddy-buddiness going on between Boro and Lommy that I don't know what to think of.
- That "yes", "no", "but" -thing looks mighty evil to me.~Mac

Spectating it might look evil, I'll give you that...but I was giving her the tp treatment...that is testing to see whether my impression I got where I felt her one post earlier was innocent, was the 'right' impression. And at the same time, trying to prove to her my own innocence, that's what I call the "tp treatment," because essentially that's really the only way I can ever figure out what that man is up to. I have no idea what Lommy wanted to get from it, if anything at all except joking around, she'll have to explain it, but she passed my test.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Wow, that's... just the sort of thing you would say to me as a wolf.

Okaaaay...

If you expected me to throw out some suspicion at you in turn, I might have - if you were not a semi-known innocent.

[Rikae]

A bit more defensiveness would have looked more innocent, I think - for future reference.

[Rikae]

After all, assuming you're *not* a wolf, my suspicion of you might mean that toNight they kill me and I take you with me...

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

A bit more defensiveness would have looked more innocent, I think - for future reference.

Why should I have defended myself from it - I'm fully aware that I haven't been outrageously sharp in this game so far. As I said, I blame it on flu + lack of evidence.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

After all, assuming you're *not* a wolf, my suspicion of you might mean that toNight they kill me and I take you with me...

I don't get it. Why should an innocent fear to be the hunter-pick more than a mutineer should fear it? Or am I misunderstanding you?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I don't get it. Why should an innocent fear to be the hunter-pick more than a mutineer should fear it? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Because innocents can't choose the night kill - and the aggressors are more likely to kill the hunter if they think she's hunting an innocent.

[Boromir88]

++Gwath

I don't feel like explaining that at the moment, maybe some time before the DL

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Can I have a guest appearance on the "Rikae - Mac Show"?

[Macalaure]

I'm not absolutely sure whether I'll stick around til the deadline, so I better make sure I vote now:

++Gwathagor

If he shows up, this might change.

[Macalaure]

Rikae -> Gwath
Nerwen -> Gwath (2)
Mith -> Sally
Lommy -> Sally (2)
Izzy -> Izzy
Eonwe -> Sally (3)
Inzy -> Sally (4)
Boro -> Gwath (3)
Mac -> Gwath (4)

A bit lacking in diversity, but not uninteresting.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I'm not absolutely sure whether I'll stick around til the deadline, so I better make sure I vote now:

++Gwathagor

If he shows up, this might change.

Weird, given that you just said you might not be here to change it.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Weird, given that you just said you might not be here to change it.

Ok, I should have said "if he shows up and if I'm still around".

[Boromir88]

Usually I feel I'm pretty defensive towards player' schedules, times, and how active they can/want to be...but sometimes it's irritating because it borders upon the ridiculous.

I debated on whether I wanted to say that, because I don't mean to be rude and incosiderate, just well...something I think that needed to be said with under 30 minutes til the DL

[Shastanis Althreduin]

To be honest, I'm not sure I see the case on Sally or Gwath. And I really don't feel comfortable that they're our only real lynch possibilities with half an hour till deadline.

[Boromir88]

Alright Shasta, whatcha thinkin'?