Game Thread: Werewolf- this time it's real!

[Isabellkya]

I think I may get what is not being said by that Shasta. Just because someone may get irritated or frustrated with defending themselves; doesn't mean it makes you innocent. Perhaps he is using Rikae as an example of putting on a good show in defense of herself to get off the lynch block?

That your acting skills should not be the ultimate decider in clearing yourself, when you are suspected.

X'd with Shasta and Nog.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I think I may get what is not being said by that Shasta. Just because someone may get irritated or frustrated with defending themselves; doesn't mean it makes you innocent. Perhaps he is using Rikae as an example of putting on a good show in defense of herself to get off the lynch block?

That your acting skills should not be the ultimate decider in clearing yourself, when you are suspected.

X'd with Shasta and Nog.

I know what he was saying, Izzy. I was just commenting on the fact that he makes the exact same comment every time.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I agree with the first paragraph. I disagree with the second.

Naturally. But don't let your ideas about the second amendment to blur your view about what's taking place here.

Thanks for the clarification Shasta. I'll chew the possibilities...

Originally Posted by Shasta

I'm leaning towards Brinn being innocent right now, and would rather not see her go. She definitely has the air of an ordo who's irritated at being constantly suspected by the same person.

Now who might that be? I have voiced suspicion of her toDay but is there someome else with whom she's irritated with as being "constantly suspected" by? Or what might you mean?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I'm a bit concerned with Gwath's multitude of posts. Why not organize into one epic one?

Because I don't have one epic, monolithic thought, I have a multitude of little ones which come and go as they please and dance around and sing little songs...but now I'm rambling.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now who might that be? I have voiced suspicion of her toDay but is there someome else with whom she's irritated with as being "constantly suspected" by? Or what might you mean?

Well, today it's been you, but I was mainly referring to past experience.

[Isabellkya]

IT seemed like you were responding to things as you read the thread. Just curious as to why you wouldn't just organize it all into one post. XD.

Shasta. You weren't really commenting. You were asking if anyone else had noticed such things. Questions and comments are not the same.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Well, today it's been you, but I was mainly referring to past experience.

Hmm... interesting. As it can't be me. The last games we've had she has been the one to kill me at Night or secure my lynch so early on that I've had no chance to even start to actually suspect her...

Now does this look like you two have had conversations lately, like within a few hours, last Night, or something?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Hmm... interesting. As it can't be me. The last games we've had she has been the one to kill me at Night or secure my lynch so early on that I've had no chance to even start to actually suspect her...

Now does this look like you two have had conversations lately, like within a few hours, last Night, or something?

"Past experience" in my previous post refers to any innocent being unjustly suspected and getting irritated about it. I'm willing to blame the language barrier, Nog, but it does seem you're starting to twist my words a bit, hm?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

My internet has started acting up every time I go to today's first page, so I'm going to come back to my suspicion list. Meanwhile, here's what I picked up reading that page on a few people:

Gwath (10) - Seemed put out at the beginning of the day that Kuru was still alive.

Kuruharan (6) - obviously innocent.

Nilp (7) - I like that he went to the trouble of an analysis on Firefoot, but... I just don't see that it accomplished a great deal. It made him look quite helpful, though, which doesn't sit right with me.

Nogrod (5) - The fact that all he's been saying today is "Let's focus on people who haven't used bonus votes yet" irks me a bit. Even though he says he's not, it's like he's discounting the possibility that there might be wolves that have used bonus votes already, which I don't think is a good idea at this point. That and I don't tend to like continuous harbingers of doom. I'm actually beginning to think, after rereading post #445 where he condemns Brinn, that he's just mad that she hasn't posted as much as he would like.

Sally (10) - In post 430, she states, "The thing was that I was pretty sure you weren't innocent". Freudian slip? Maybe she's Grima. Also, the way she adds Gwath's explanation of his non-vote to her own just seems weird to me.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

Now does this look like you two have had conversations lately, like within a few hours, last Night, or something?

You just reminded me of one thing that was bothering me about you but I always forgot to mention. The quote above is a classic example, but there have been a few other similar ones as well. That sort of seemingly-careless, half-serious little accusations seasoned with a rolleyes smiley. I can't see the purpose that would serve for an ordo, but I do see the benefit of retorts like that for a wolf. This sort of things are easy to toss around and can be interpreted as a joke or a serious suspicion both. Having given lots of statements like that, you can then refer to them either as "I suspected him already here!" or "hey, but that was just a joke, why didn't you guys get it", whichever way the situation develops.

Yeah, I think that did it.

++ Nogrod


EDIT: x-ed with Shasta

[Kuruharan]

I've got yet another family commitment tonight that is going to keep me away from the comp for awhile.

I will be back later. I'm not sure if I can vote...I'd just assumed that I could because it doesn't say anything about it in the rules.

I do have another suggestion...I agree with Nogrod that the village will be in desperate trouble if we don't get a wolf toDay...basically that we will probably have lost.

I wonder if the Seer and Finrod should announce themselves and tell what they know. That would (hopefully) cut down on the number of people that we'd have to worry about voting for. We have more inncent votes now than we are going to have later...

I don't know if this is a good idea, though. I thought I'd throw it out there for discusion.

Be back in a bit.

[Isabellkya]

Haha. Are you voting for Nog over smiley usage?
*runs before Kent arrives*

I'm glad I didn't mention that the two looked chummy. They've both defended each other, yet neither has posted a whole lot. Stands to reason that one could think they'd communicated in other ways..


X'd with Kuru.

[Kuruharan]

Oh yes...

And please don't forget to look at people beyond your favorite suspects...

[Kent2010]

I don't know if this is a good idea, though. I thought I'd throw it out there for discusion.
-Kuru

It still might be pre-mature, and especially for Finrod. If Finrod reveals all they have to do is send that bat. Where if Finrod stays hidden there's and he does make a successful protection, there's a greater possibility (2 out of 3) he could take out one with him. Our only offensive weapon now besides the lynching is a successful protection by Finrod. He can't protect himself so the only real advantage would be to give Luthien an extra day, but we'd lose the chance of a Finrod successful protection/kill.

Luthien, it depends. There's been 3 dreams so far? If she knows 2-3 innocents (currently living) or a baddie plus an alive innocent...maybe. Also, if Luthien would reveal, theoretically she'd get another day (Finrod's protection). Oh well that should be left up to Luthien.

[Nogrod]

Those with ten votes and whom I'd say are deliberately keeping their reserves full to possibly win the game in the end, possibly for the baddies (eg. includes a possible Grima as well) as they are wise enough to see the edge their votes might have.

Brinniel (10) - Still my top suspect. I think her (in)action in the end of Day2 betrays a baddie. I have written about it extensively enough thus far.

Formendacil (10) - My #3 or 4 of suspicions. He has been so cool and composed all the time and he has been a bit too nice to me. But I admit some of this getting him this high might be due to our differences in the philosophical approach of the game we have. Very much undecided right now with him but his full arsenal makes me afraid of him.

Greenie (10) - She has been much better toDay as she has been actually posting some thoughts on people and not only avoiding mentioning others but those she would vote for. On Day1 and 2 her demeanor just screamed wolf to me. She probably is my #2 still but I'm much less confident about her being a baddie I was like a few hours ago. Still wouldn't clear her as a goodie. Quite the contrary.


Other "tenners" - with whom I'm more at loss whether they have the bonus-votes full because it's a tactical decision or whether it's just that hey haven't found a place to use their votes yet as they haven't been around too much or have lost votings.

Gwath (10) - A questionmark. I'm not too sure he would have missed the vote yesterDay as a wolf and confessed being indecisive and losing it for that. He tends to garner a lot of suspicion and like oftentimes I'm tending to think undeservedly.

Lari (10) - Well, if she's a wolf/vampire and wins then I will just have to take it as "she didn't earn the victory". What could one say? Nothing. She has kept her votes...

Sally (10) - The problematic one... I would not be surprised she was a baddie but I wouldn't suggest her as the first lynch either. Her having the ten votes might as well be due to inattentivness than on plain decision with the mates.

Shasta (10) - I had nothing to say about him untill lately when he has defended Brinn. He might be one of the baddies but with the RL I'd say he's not my top choice anyway. But one to look after to be sure.


One thing to add. The baddies will talk together via PM's, all the time. So anything I say about someone "not possibly thinking to save her/his votes" in purpose might be jeopardised with the fact that her/his mates tell her/him to do so. So even the most inattentive player might have clear demands to not use her/his extra votes thus leading my possible redeeming judgements null and void.


The others...

Fea (6) - Not a likely baddie-candidate. Her weird extra-vote for me might be due to frustration. Her inattendance after that vote speaks for her not having a role and thus no interest in the game.

Izzy (8) - I actually suspected her a lot in the early stages but now she feels a lot better. Still if one of the wolves (or Grima) would have spent some of their bonus-votes I'd be worried about her the most. She seems to roll with the tide a bit too much (including when to suspect me or to trust me) and her giving up of votes might be interpreted as a tactical manouver. But not my top candidate in any way right now.

Kent (5) - Even if his early chivalry in regards to Greenie looked dubious I haven't very much bad to say of him. I see what people are saying with him being too defensive etc. But it's mainly his +5 vote for Kuru that bothers me a bit to be honest.

Nilp(7) - Mr. Oddball then. It's always hard to get anything reasonable out from him and this game is no different. His last vote was odd as well as it was well overdone. One or two votes might have done it but he gave Kuru four votes (and did not highlight them!). Keeps on repeating how he enjoys the game. I'd say more of an ordo than not but I'd not trust him either, at least yet.


That was not as much and as good I wished for but I hope it helps as one tally among others.


EDIT: X'd with a host... and Greenie...

[Kent2010]

I don't like Sally's generic feelings of uneasiness about me. There's nothing to say to I 'feel like a rat.' I have to be doing something to make you uneasy, so how? There is always a describable reason to feel 'uneasy' so out with it already. And this is I don't get...

and while I don't want to kill him just to find out what he is I'm not going to complain if he ends up dead at the end of the Day, because I keep smelling a Kent....erm, rat.

If you suspect me than suspect me already. Don't beat around the bush 'well I don't want to kill him but it wouldn't bother me if he did die today.' You know the compliment sandwhich? One good thing, one bad, and back to a good? Well this is a roast sandwhich designed to put me on a spit and cook me over an open flame. You suspect me with broad vague feelings of uneasiness, all but say in a couple words you think I'm innocent, but then back to some generic suspicion.

If you have an issue with my approach to this game so far, than say it and I would think you are more innocent. But it's not that you say you wouldn't complain about my death at the end because I 'smell a rat.' To which I respond, we are after wolves and a bat, not a rat and if you are trying to imply I'm Grima go search somewhere else.

I am working on a Formendacil analysis now. Am I the only one really searching for people, or are we just going to continue to go back and fourth about the bonus vote stuff? Because if that's the case I might as well stop trying now.

I would like people to tell me what they think regarding my comments about something Brinn said...here (Edit: my post 479, for some reason the hyperlink thingy isn't working for me). Do you see it? Is it a mountain out of a mole hill?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Second stage of my list. I added some to Gwath and Sally and added more people.

Brinniel (10) - I think her attitude says she's innocent (but then I always think she's innocent). Her vote for Sally does look to me a bit like a throwaway vote, but I just don't think a wolf-Brinn would be so easily irritable.

Fea (6) - I'm suspicious of her and will be until I get an explanation of yesterday's vote.

Gwath (10) - Seemed put out at the beginning of the day that Kuru was still alive. Also, #465 strikes me as a wolf trying to get instructions to a cobbler... does anyone else get that impression?

Originally Posted by Gwath

Regarding the bonus votes issue: the more innocents who save their bonus votes, the better - whoever has the most bonus votes towards the end of the game will win. Do NOT waste them now.

Now that I'm thinking along these lines, I wonder if Grima might be likely to try to force innocents to use their bonus votes early on by using some of his/her own.

Izzy (8) - I see some of the same things she does; notably the interesting interactions between Sally and Gwath. However, I'm not sure what to think about Izzy specifically.

Kuruharan (6) - obviously innocent.

Lari (10) - seems like she's playing very safe this time around. She's a possible baddie for me.

Nilp (7) - I like that he went to the trouble of an analysis on Firefoot, but... I just don't see that it accomplished a great deal. It made him look quite helpful, though, which doesn't sit right with me.

Nogrod (5) - The fact that all he's been saying today is "Let's focus on people who haven't used bonus votes yet" irks me a bit. Even though he says he's not, it's like he's discounting the possibility that there might be wolves that have used bonus votes already, which I don't think is a good idea at this point. That and I don't tend to like continuous harbingers of doom. I'm actually beginning to think, after rereading post #445 where he condemns Brinn, that he's just mad that she hasn't posted as much as he would like.

Sally (10) - In post 430, she states, "The thing was that I was pretty sure you weren't innocent". Freudian slip? Maybe she's Grima. Also, the way she adds Gwath's explanation of his non-vote to her own just seems weird to me. Also, her comment about Nienna being a "brilliant wolf". Seems odd to me; Nienna's only been in... one other game so far, I think, and Sally was the moderator. It just seems odd to me; I know I'd be more inclined to call someone a "brilliant wolf" if I'd actually played a game with them (especially since the baddies lost Sally's game). Also, I'm noticing that in #497, after Izzy calls her out on the list she made (immediately after, actually), Sally backs off of her suspicion of Izzy. Interesting...


Edit: X'ed with Kent and fixed a bold tag.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

You just reminded me of one thing that was bothering me about you but I always forgot to mention. The quote above is a classic example, but there have been a few other similar ones as well. That sort of seemingly-careless, half-serious little accusations seasoned with a rolleyes smiley. I can't see the purpose that would serve for an ordo, but I do see the benefit of retorts like that for a wolf. This sort of things are easy to toss around and can be interpreted as a joke or a serious suspicion both. Having given lots of statements like that, you can then refer to them either as "I suspected him already here!" or "hey, but that was just a joke, why didn't you guys get it", whichever way the situation develops.

A classic example? Aren't you now stretching things to your favour? And you really can't see the purpose for an innocent to do that?

You should know better. And this makes me eat some of my words of not suspecting you so much anymore I said in my last post before seeing this.

Of course ordos gain from making things like that. You fish reactions, you look and see how people react to those. I thought Shasta's answer to that was a bit dubious and I already thought I might have a scent of a trace there but with you then...

Well if you are a baddie and wish to play as safe as possible then you probably won't see it. But we ordos need to get people into talking and reacting - and if they do not do it themselves and free-willing we need to force them to do it. Making that kind of statements is one way of doing it.

How have you tried to fish the wolves out from the lot yourself?

[Isabellkya]

Sally:
I've not felt good about her since the first Day, when she suspected nienna only after Nog did. Which it really was a suspicion. It was like a definitive decision, "Okay, I see what you say, she is definitely evil!" Then followed it up with a vote for her. Nothing she has said since change the furry or fangy feelings. Quite the opposite, they make her look more baddie.

Gwath
As with Sally, I've not gelt good about him since his Nienna jumping and vote after nog's posted suspicions. His part/interaction with the Kuru/Kent deal yesterDay did nothing. Since it seemed he would've voted for Kuru more for him(Gwath) agreeing with Kent - rather than his saying he would've done it to save Nog. Though, I don't know if I would be ready to commit it to vote. because I feel he is connected to Sally in some way - yet I'm not certain they are both mates. AS it would be either super sloppy on both their parts if it were so. Or incredibly daring for some purpose, I can't yet imagine.

Nog
He seems his usual self. Though toDay he seems to be much more aggressive and jugular than in previous days As with yesterDay, I'd not vote for him toDay.

Nilp
He is helpful, or appears to be so. I don't find him overtly suspicious which would warrant a vote. He is playing a semi-private game. In that he seems to be conduction reactionary(?) experiments on some. I did not expect him to vote for Kuru yesterDay, mainly if I remember correctly - he said he didn't find him very suspicious. My only conclusion is that he was trying to save a Nogmate? I would like to know one thing, though I will wait until the game is over as to the validity and truth of it.

Fea
I am very curious as to her reasons of her vote for Nog yesterDay. I can only think that she did it because she is an Ordo and is bored, or she is the Cobbler and wanted to get people to use/waste their bonus votes - which some of us did.

Kent
I am for the most part comfortable with him, and have no reason to vote for him. My only qualm with him is the distraction his newbie discussion brought yesterDay. If you clear it out, it leavs almost something to be desired.

Brin, Lari & Green
All in the same boat for me. I can understand holding back the bonus votes for future use. Yet it almost seems like it is being used as an excuse, a shield to not delve into the game futher and commit to anything.

Shasta
He seems jumpy and I'm not liking his interactions with Brin. They have both defended each other when there really wasn't a need for it. Now, would mates do such a thing? I could see it, because the nature of the defending was not entirely related to suspicions voiced against them.

Form
I don't have a reason to vote or suspect him.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

I am working on a Formendacil analysis now.

Good. I thought of doing it a few times but always found the time wanting... as it will take some time.

I do appreciate it as I'm very much at loss with Form anyway and would love to see someone else making an analysis of him & seeing some hard evidence gathered for viewing & comments made on that.

Am I the only one really searching for people, or are we just going to continue to go back and fourth about the bonus vote stuff?

I don't know but it is like 3.20 AM here and I'm off to bed - and will hope to wake up in the morning to see the DL and vote. (and then go back to sleep to be sure as it's Saturday...)

Originally Posted by Kent

I would like people to tell me what they think regarding my comments about something Brinn said...here (Edit: my post 479

It probably is that Brinn refers to a game where tp and Boro basically sacrificed Aganzir to advert the wolves from picking the real seer at Night - or something like that; I don't remember it too well and I have no time to go back to search for the details of the incidence.

But the similarities between the two scenarios are scarce and thin indeed - and if Brinn actually suggested the similar thing would have happened here, it looks quite frivolous indeed. That was far from it!

I mean that was werewolf-history in the making when it happened. A perfect ploy to distract the wolves with a high risk two innocents trusting each other, and they managed to marshall it through. And surely Firefoot probably even doesn't know that kind of trick has been performed.

So Brinn was overstating that one.

But what does it mean? That's another question and one which I just can't stay awake trying to answer.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Fea (6) - I'm suspicious of her and will be until I get an explanation of yesterday's vote.

I was bored and wanted to see what you all would do.

Tragically, you didn't lynch me, and instead you gave me like eight pages to have to read. Fail.

I'm being Nilp. Lynch me.

Also,

++Nog

He's been posting lots.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Fea

He's been posting lots.

Leading the scoreboard once again with a nice gap.

Oh, big time.

But we will lose if this continues like this.

See you before the DL (I hope I manage to wake up before that).

[Kent2010]

Formendacil

Fair enough... I am mollified, I guess, insofar as I don't know you, so I can't distinguish between newbie covering (especially since, were that so, you could assisted by PMing with the other Wolves) and honesty--but at for know, I'm mollified. Though, I suppose, if you are a wolf, and you die, we should be looking for people who posted on this thread between those two posts to find someone who potentially might have been a PM partner.

Hmm... that might actually be an interesting gambit: lynching Kent to see if he's a wolf. It's tenuous grounds, to be sure, but that's sort of the prevailing atmosphere.
-post 239

What stands out about this is that I almost am painted into a no win situation. Were you jumping the gun Formendacil? Lynch me, and if I turn up a wolf check for any of my PM partners? You say you're mollified but conclude with the curious statement of test lynching me to see if I'm a wolf?

Hey, Nilp!

I haven't got any good voting plans? Want me to throw away my vote on you, since you can't autovote?
-post 254

Would you like to be test-lynched to figure out what we do with Nilp?

Speaking of Nilp, I feel like I should keep more of an eye on him this game. He has a tendency to slip under my radar because of his long-standing auto-vote, self-destruct, and-guess-what?-he's-an-ordo role, and long-standing prejudices are hard to shake... and Nilp has a long standing "good guy" prejudice in my mind. Not saying he's guilty (no evidence in the slightest to do so yet), but reminding myself to do so.
-post 305

Keeping the oppurtunity open to turn on a partner if needed?

To put it in other words, perhaps the wolves decided that, if Aganzir was converted to their side, and we woke up today with no one missing from our midst, she'd be the last one we'd look for as a converted new wolf, simply because she had been so conspicuous yesterday, and thus the sort of noisy person that wolves leave around to keep the heat off themselves.

I'm hardly wedded to this, but it's the best theory that offers something rather than just random confusion as the answer--at least to my mind.
-post 315

With the threat of Luthien still around are the wolves really looking to cause random confusion for their kills?

I am deeply amused that this little interjection of mine is getting so much attention. If it reads like "by the way, I don't see why everyone was suspicious of Nienna yesterday," that's because that is very much what I was saying... but in a slightly different tense. More along the lines of "by the way, I didn't see THEN why everyone was suspicious of Nienna." Granted, I may not be helping myself with this clarification... but you ARE more or less interpreting me right--not going to complain about that.
-post 330

This is Form's response to his statement regarding Nienna, and taking the moral highground as Nogrod mentioned...I wonder if I should analyze why you all capped 'ARE' pretty much saying my interpretation of it was correct?

And that's all I've looked at today... I sort of defended Kuru as not being a cobbler, but that doesn't mean he's not a wolf.
-post 333

This looks like a sneaky attempt to offer Kuru up as a possible lynching. I think Form's had that consistant tone regarding Kuru throughout the game, in some ways poking suspicion (albeit using a 40 and a half foot poll so he can keep his distance from a messy situation), but at the same time explaining why he wouldn't vote for Kuru.

Yes. What's up with those votes, Fea dear? I was going to say something when I cross-posted, but I had to be moving quickly... and I'd hoped you'd explicate with a string of one-liner posts. Or something. But this is right out of the blue! The Kuru-suspicion not so much... but the bonus votes? Typically impulsive, maybe... or cobblery-deviant? I don't know...
-post 342

Trying to get suspicion rolling against Fea?

Albeit, I have a few misgivings because it's a tenuous feeling at best, but she's as far up my suspicion list as anyone is, and if it spurs Nog's one-man-bandwaggon in that direction rather than Fea's or Kuru's--well, that sits closest to my intuitions this evening.
-post 377

I think this is my biggest issue with Formendacil, how uncommitting he's been throughout (in this post he votes for Greenie), but it's been more than uncommitting. In Day 1, he sneakily shifted suspicion towards Nienna:

And, in other news, I'm still no closer to a vote. Well, maybe an inch or two. I'm concerned that Nienna's vote for Nogrod was made with the encouragement that I might vote in that direction.
-back tracking to post 248

And he did the same to the day 2 lynch - Kuru the next day, shifting suspicion towards him, but spending most of his time defending Kuru because of his defense of Kuru for Day 1. The problem is when push comes to shove, Formendacil goes in an opposite direction and makes a safe play. On Day 1 he casts a random vote for Nilp and Day 2, he votes for probably the person he thought was most suspicious (or said he was most suspicious of) however it's a safe play.

What's more striking about his vote for Greenie is there are no bonus votes with it. Well maybe he just wasn't confident? The thing is before he told Nogrod that he would go 'contra-Kentian' (great word by the way ) and prefer that Nogrod vote for Greenie. However, he really forces Nogrod into a tough choice, by choosing not to give Greenie any bonus votes. Nogrod new I wasn't going to vote for Greenie (and Formendacil knew I wouldn't either) so if Nogrod did want Greenie as an option (either to save himself or for another candidate) Nogrod would have to dump a lot of his bonus votes, while Formendacil would not.

The last thing is after his vote for Greenie, Formendacil does stick around and play a distant role at the same time chiming in about Kuru and me (post 380).

[Isabellkya]

Are you perhaps being a bit over dramatic here Nog?

Vote Tally (unless I missed one somewhere?):

Kent -> Brin(1). 2
Sally -> Kent. 1
Green -> Nog. 1
Fea -> Nog. 2


Nog, Brin 2. Kent 1.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

What's more striking about his vote for Greenie is there are no bonus votes with it. Well maybe he just wasn't confident? The thing is before he told Nogrod that he would go 'contra-Kentian' (great word by the way ) and prefer that Nogrod vote for Greenie. However, he really forces Nogrod into a tough choice, by choosing not to give Greenie any bonus votes. Nogrod new I wasn't going to vote for Greenie (and Formendacil knew I wouldn't either) so if Nogrod did want Greenie as an option (either to save himself or for another candidate) Nogrod would have to dump a lot of his bonus votes, while Formendacil would not.

A good and an accurate description Kent! Appreciated! Even if it sounded familiar I hadn't quite grasped Form's role in it until now as you show it.

Now a good night for a few hours!

[Isabellkya]

Why wouldn't the three want to cause confusion with their kills Kent? It distracts the village if the kills don't point in a clear direction.

Which begs the thought.
Perhaps part of the three's decision making process. They are going after people who are A) most Ordo looking, B) either going to be dreamed really early or not at all and C) aren't super suspects.

Because what more perfect set-up for the three, than to turn someone who has already been dreamed of by the Seer?

X'd with Nog.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Are you perhaps being a bit over dramatic here Nog?

Oh, I had forgotten that first vote by Kent...

But still I think you have the tally wrong.

Isn't it like this?

Kent -> Brin(1). 2
Sally -> Kent. 1
Green -> Nog. 1
Fea -> Nog. 2

Nog2, Brinn2. Kent1.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Nog, Brinn 2. Kent 1.

That's what the comma after "Nog" is for, Nog. "Nog and Brinn, two votes. Kent, one vote."

Edit: Fixed quote tag.

[Isabellkya]

Ah haha.
I suppose the comma does make it confusing.
Though I thought I'd put an & in there.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

It still might be pre-mature, and especially for Finrod. If Finrod reveals all they have to do is send that bat. Where if Finrod stays hidden there's and he does make a successful protection, there's a greater possibility (2 out of 3) he could take out one with him. Our only offensive weapon now besides the lynching is a successful protection by Finrod. He can't protect himself so the only real advantage would be to give Luthien an extra day, but we'd lose the chance of a Finrod successful protection/kill.

Luthien, it depends. There's been 3 dreams so far? If she knows 2-3 innocents (currently living) or a baddie plus an alive innocent...maybe. Also, if Luthien would reveal, theoretically she'd get another day (Finrod's protection). Oh well that should be left up to Luthien.

I'm back and will get started with some serious reading now.

I did want to say that I agree with Kent's analysis at least as far as Finrod goes.

I'm still not sure about the Seer. I think if the Seer does know the identity of a wolf we kinda need that at this juncture...however, I have a feeling the Seer doesn't.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

The last two people on my list:

Greenie: I'm prejudiced about her today due to the fact that I see where she's coming from re: Nog. I don't feel comfortable saying anything about her due to that, other than that I suspected her yesterday. (Which reminds me, I need to answer her question).

Kent: Smart cookie. Other than that, no real read. The only interesting thing I'd noted was all the talk about his newbie status and see where that got Kuru?

[Brinniel]

Pfft...two pages while I'm gone? Well, I'm just gonna comment on quotes as I go instead of reading everything first so I don't forget anything.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, if you really suspected Sally and Firefoot - and you were an ordo seeing nothing particularly good/bad in me and Kuru - wouldn't you have wished to persuade some others to see your point?

I didn't think I would need to do any serious persuading. Around the time I intended to make my vote I saw there were others concerned about Sally and Firefoot too. I thought they might vote in the same direction.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also, if you were a goodie you would have wanted to negotiate the lynch with the others. Why do you try to imply to us (in your earlier post toDay) you were having really a tough time deciding between Firefoot and Sally like it was something important (which it wasn't because you left your vote to the last possible instant so that no one could react to your vote) as meanwhile you don't give a damn to who gets lynched by not trying to influence the vote / negotiate it with others still to vote?

There was twenty minutes left. I'm a slow poster. There was no time for negotiations. It was a big rush at the end and everyone just did their own thing rather than work together.

I'm not sure why you're making such a big deal out of it that I mentioned I had trouble deciding between Sally and Firefoot. The reason I mentioned it was because I was complaining about all the last minute voting, which is hypocritical since I did it too. And I admit that was an error on my part and I wish I had voted earlier. I'll do my best to avoid letting it happen again.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Your idea of calling me the safe-voter or someone shying away from decisive voting is ridiculous even if you didn't notice that error of Nilp not highlighting his vote. Why would I waste four bonus votes for nothing when I'm about to be lynched? Really. At .59 I was still leading the tally. You think someone would love to be indecisive at that kind of minute?

Okay, I do accept that explanation. Nilp's vote was highlighted by the time you and I posted so I thought you already knew it counted when you made your vote.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I just tried to awaken people to the problem we have in our hands. If you think my theory is bad you should argue for a better one and not blame me for trying. The moment you come up with a better working plan I will abandon mine and change to yours.

I already do have my own plan: We shouldn't use our bonus votes frivolously but only when we feel confident that our suspect is evil. Because you are right; the baddies are dangerous with all those extra votes...but they'll be even more dangerous with all those extra votes if most of the innocents have few.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So we need to create an athmosphere where anyone having ten bonus-votes left feels s/he is going to be lynched because of it - or which would be better: we should force the baddies to defend their mate(s) with their bonus-votes, if we just got a good enough threat to them.

I already mentioned this but if you pressure everyone including innocents to use their bonus votes when they don't want to, it'll only increase the chances of a mislynch because they'll vote for someone they may not strongly suspect and later in the game when they are confident of their suspects, there will be little to no bonus votes left to use. And anyway, do you really think the baddies will definitely use their bonus votes to save their mates? Take a look at past games...there are plenty of players here who would be happy to sacrifice their mate to make themselves look good. I wouldn't be surprised if a wolf used some of their bonus votes against a mate...because who would suspect that?

Originally Posted by Kent

The 2nd scenario is just odd, because how would Firefoot know Agan was not the seer, believe Agan was an ordo, and decide to set her up as the seer for the wolves to go after that night - if Firefoot was not the seer herself?

I know the second scenario does seem a bit absurd and I didn't think it was likely, but the exact thing has occurred in past games where an ordo sets up another ordo to be killed...so I didn't want to eliminate the possibility.

Originally Posted by Kent

That person whether wolf or innocent will most likely use their bonus to save themselves, which is I think the bigger point, to start levelling out the field.

Yes, if that person is there to save/defend themselves. But not everyone sticks around until deadline and may not expect to be lynched.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Cool down Brinn, this is only a game. And you know I love you: this is pretty straightforwards, no sarcasm or smilies included.

Yes, I know that. I'm only angry with you for in-game reasons, not RL. So no worries.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now this is interesting. If you would manage to bag a wolf - what good would that be?
*Ponders about it: what good would there be of lynching a wolf toDay? Hard to see... what good would there be?

I didn't say there wasn't good in bagging a wolf, but that it's no good to use all my votes on one person, even if they are a wolf. Why? Because:

a) Even if I put a wolf strongly in the lead with 11 votes, it doesn't mean they'll get lynched. There may be several others that will do everything they can to save that person thinking they are innocent (or perhaps if they are a wolf saving their mate).

b) Even if that wolf gets lynched, will it necessarily be just because of me? Because maybe that person can get lynched without all those bonus votes if others suspect them enough. And yes, I may have used all my bonus votes on a wolf...but there are three baddies here, and four if you count the cobbler. So what if I need some of those bonus votes to help bag another wolf later? Well that's just too bad because there won't be any left.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The baddies will probably kill those innocents with the most votes left by Nights (see Firefoot with ten votes). Also they would like to keep their votes to themselves if they need not use them - and they, unlike us - know when they need to use them. And remember that Thuringwethil may suck ten votes from an innocent the Night before the baddies decide to make their final attack if there is one. Then they will have 40-50 votes to spend on one Day which we innocents can never stand up against.

Now if the baddies killed all the innocents with 10 bonus votes then kept all their votes to themselves, then they'd be making themselves pretty obvious targets, don't you think?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Just think there are three romantic heroes around with ten votes. One gets killed by Thurnigwethil and her/his ten extra votes are in the possession of the baddies the next Day. Then the two remaining ten-voters disagree with each other who's the wolf and vote different people.

Why do you keep going under the assumption that all the baddies will save their votes until the end? That's a really bad assumption to make..

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But you should actually convince us - well me at least - why what I said about your actions in the end of Day2 are not true to begin with. Getting angry or hurt is one way of trying to do it but I have seen such shows that this is not quite enough (remember Rikae back then really bringing all of us others to tears with her show - but many enough of us stood firm and lynched her, as the baddie she turned out to be).

Do you really think I'm trying to use my emotions as a way to convince you of somthing? I certainly hope not, because I don't do that. I'm a naturally sensitive person and when I get upset by something my emotions do tend to flood out and I honestly can't help it. But I'm doing my best to explain my actions with words; I'm not sure what else to say since you don't seem to believe any of my explanations. I voted for someone I found suspicious, but apparently that's not good enough.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I'm leaning towards Brinn being innocent right now, and would rather not see her go. She definitely has the air of an ordo who's irritated at being constantly suspected by the same person. Sidenote - has anyone else noticed that every time someone gets irritated with having to defend themselves, Nogrod brings up Rikae as an excuse to attack them anyway? I think it's happened, like... every game I've ever played with him in it.

Yeah, it is irritating to feel personally attacked. I'm not saying Nogrod isn't allowed to suspect or attack me at all, but I think sometimes players will cling onto something against someone and not bat an eyelash at anything they say in defense. Rune has done this with me and I think that's what Kent did to Kuru yesterDay. It doesn't necessarily mean that these people are guilty, but I feel it's a bit close minded.

And I also agree with you on the second part. Rikae's her own person and has her own tactics. Just because she has used emotions as an act before doesn't mean everyone else will do the same. And anyway, was she just acting in that game? I think Rikae has been genuinely irritated before, regardless of her role.

Originally Posted by Izzy

I'm a bit concerned with Gwath's multitude of posts. Why not organize into one epic one?

That's just Gwath's typical style of posting. He does this every game. I'm surprised you haven't noticed it before.

Originally Posted by Izzy

I think I may get what is not being said by that Shasta. Just because someone may get irritated or frustrated with defending themselves; doesn't mean it makes you innocent. Perhaps he is using Rikae as an example of putting on a good show in defense of herself to get off the lynch block?

That your acting skills should not be the ultimate decider in clearing yourself, when you are suspected.

No, open frustration does not necessarily make one innocent. But it also doesn't mean someone is just acting. I really think emotions have nothing to do with roles because both innocents and baddies can get equally frustrated so I don't think we should judge whether someone is innocent or guilty based off their emotions.

Originally Posted by Izzy

He seems jumpy and I'm not liking his interactions with Brin. They have both defended each other when there really wasn't a need for it.

When have I defended Shasta?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But the similarities between the two scenarios are scarce and thin indeed - and if Brinn actually suggested the similar thing would have happened here, it looks quite frivolous indeed. That was far from it!

I mean that was werewolf-history in the making when it happened. A perfect ploy to distract the wolves with a high risk two innocents trusting each other, and they managed to marshall it through. And surely Firefoot probably even doesn't know that kind of trick has been performed.

So Brinn was overstating that one.

I wasn't overstating anything. I opened it up as a possibility, but I never said it was a likely scenario.

---

Okay, I'm all caught up. Now onto my suspects.

Nogrod: For his aggression, pessimism, and tactics. I really don't like how he's going about voting and while it is important to get a baddie toDay, I feel like he's acting a bit melodramatic about our situation. I don't suspect Nogrod for attacking me, but more like how he's going about it. He's been twisting my words which gives me another reason to feel uncomfortable.

Kent: There's something about him that irks me. Is it just me or has he been following around Nogrod a lot? He just seems rather quick to trust him. I easily suspect someone who makes an effort to keep on an influential player's good side. Though I rather doubt both of them would be wolves...that'd be a bit too obvious.

Sally I'm still a bit uneasy about, though I do need to look at her again.

I'm becoming quite uncomfortable of Fea who keeps voting out of nowhere without explanation. This isn't Sally's game, so surely she can't have a posting requirement.

Other players I'd like to keep an eye on are Formy, Izzy, and Nilp.

[Isabellkya]

You defended Shasta in post #370. In response to Kuru's troubled thoughts over Shasta's vote and explanation.

[Isabellkya]

Whups, hit the wrong button.

I was talking about Gwath's near close to more than triple posting.

Why would you be keeping an eye on Form, Nilp and myself?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, I'm going to bed. Both my two top suspects seem to be suspected equally by others, so I'm going to

++Gwathagor

because that one post I found just looks too much like a wolf trying to get a message to the cobbler.

[Kuruharan]

I'm very perplexed about Fea's behavior.

At this point just acting randomly and trying to be lynched isn't really doing the village a whole lot of good. I mean, honestly what is the point of laying out bait like that now? Mainly because at this point who is going to be left to interpret it?

Is she the cobbler, perhaps?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I'm very perplexed about Fea's behavior.

It's not that hard, sweetheart: I'm taking advantage of an opportunity to be scandalous. I've been deprived...

Consequently, my scandal of choice is flippant and unhelpful, as opposed to flirtatious and unhelpful, with unhelpful being a given due to the ordinariness of my role. I don't know anything, and I'm not ambitious enough to pretend that I do. Consequently, I am enjoying, as I said, scandalous behavior.

I'll do it in fishnets and stilettos if you prefer...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Sally (10) - In post 430, she states, "The thing was that I was pretty sure you weren't innocent". Freudian slip? Maybe she's Grima. Also, the way she adds Gwath's explanation of his non-vote to her own just seems weird to me. Also, her comment about Nienna being a "brilliant wolf". Seems odd to me; Nienna's only been in... one other game so far, I think, and Sally was the moderator. It just seems odd to me; I know I'd be more inclined to call someone a "brilliant wolf" if I'd actually played a game with them (especially since the baddies lost Sally's game).

'Brilliant' does seem like a bit of an exaggeration.

[Kuruharan]

I'm suddenly remembering now a part of the reason why I quit playing this game.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

because that one post I found just looks too much like a wolf trying to get a message to the cobbler.

The resemblance is coincidental and unfortunate.