Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[mormegil]

What I would like to see is a thread where those not in the game but are still watching could discuss with fellow BDers about the game itself. For example, now that I'm dead I could come and start explaining my thinkings etc...Others would be able to just speculate and discuss why so and so did something or another.

The major problem is that it's completely based on the honor system and you run risk of those still in the game reading it and getting vital clues. Unless there is a way the moderators can lock them out of the thread until they are dead.

[the guy who be short]

I don't think a thread for discussing the game would work. It was suggested at another forum but quickly dismissed as people have a habit of saying more than they mean to. Also, if somebody is dead, they should stay dead . No rising from the grave to explain the rationale behind your thinking: the others have to guess that themselves.

What we could have is a thread to discuss parts of the game that aren't related to gameplay itself, such as discussing how the Mod writes people's deaths etc. I'm not sure how popular that would be.

[Shelob]

"The villagers screamed for a good couple of minutes" (from my death in Storyland)

I sincerely hope they remembered to inhale there Eomer...otherwise I would probably have suceeded in killing everyone in Storyland...

[mormegil]

Must give congrats to Azaelia on her nice kill last night.

Was that to avenge me?

[Holbytlass]

Nice shot, Azaelia of Willowbottom!
Now I can sleep......

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Thanks! It was a lucky guess. I figured I was going to die that night, since I had been absent so often.

I can't wait for the next game, if there is one, you can count me in! This is so much fun! I should be on more often for the next one, since my school year is pretty much over. My schedule was such that DAYs kept happening right in the middle of my school day, and I didn't like voting early. I will be more active next game!

[Shelob]

Speaking of the next game, Count me out...this one took a toll on my sleeping habits and my school work (not that the latter of those mattered as much given that no one does anything the last two weeks...but it's the principle).

Actually, count me out of any games until August...I've got too much going on with my trip to Spain to take an active part in these...


I'll still read them though, when I can...so Good Luck to whomever does play.

[littlemanpoet]

If we're volunteering already, I'd like to give it a whirl. Which is good news for the rest of you, since I'm probably going to thoroughly stink at it and die early..... especially if tgwbs is the moderator!

[Shelob]

Don't worry about it...I died early (aka. first) in my first game-- and with luck you'll get as cool a death as I did-- but I did much better this time (aka. I lived past day 1...though being a jack-in-the-box werewolf is rather grating on your nerves...one day you're at the top of everyone's list the next everyone thinks you perfectly innocent...*sighs* not fun.)

Have fun with it.

[the guy who be short]

Well... I'm pretty sure I'm the next Mod (I'm still sort of waiting for confirmation from somebody important, ie BW or SpM) so, a few things:

The outcome of the DAY in the current game will determine when it ends so I will post the recruitment period and start date/time of Werewolf IV as soon as the lynching is complete.

As well as saying you're in, please add your role in the village (Blacksmith, Baker, etc) and whether you think the Seer should be allowed to dream on the first night or not.

The next game will still have non-retractable votes and will have all the same roles. The addition of letters or a Scribe can also be discussed.

And lmp: I wouldn't worry, I can't speeden your death at all. Though I could make it unimaginably gruesome.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, you have my blessing sir.

But remember that we should wait a good few days before starting a new game, for discussion, deliberation, registration......and just general recharging of the batteries!

As for players, count me in!

[Anguirel]

Me too! I need my next shot of the Tol...

[Saurreg]

Well Eomer, I'm glad to see for myself that you're right in stating that roleplaying wasn't going to be much of a deal in this latest installment of the forum fad.

I will join the next game.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Other than making a brief mention of your occupation, usually at the start of your first post, it really doesn't figure too much.

It's handy if you want to inject a dash of humour, like Saucepan Man and his numerous ale references.

[mormegil]

Also I feel that it gives a good starting point on the first day for conversation. I obviously based my suspicions on people's occupations on DAY 1 but other than that it's pretty much just fun and helps in creating death scenes.

[Anguirel]

Personally, I love the role-play side, and use it to convey and construct my arguments; but it can be applied a varying amount by different people, according to how much they enjoy it.

[the guy who be short]

Well, it's definitely ended now, so...

Recruitment Period: A while ago to 5:00pm GMT (12:00am EST, 11:00am Central) on Friday 17th June.

Start time: 6:00pm GMT (1:00pm EST, 12:00am Central), Friday 17th June.

EDIT: times have now changed.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I'm probably going to thoroughly stink at it and die early...

Better to die early than to survive and be perpetually wrong ...

The role-play in this game worked pretty much as I intended it to, although there was probably too much mention made of extrinsic (ie non-village related) matters.

Unfortunately, I shall have to give the next game a miss as I will be away on business for much of the latter half of this month. Plus I need time to recover from the stress (and lack of sleep) induced by the last game.

Tgwbs - as far as I am concerned, you are welcome to moderate the next game.

[mormegil]

I'd love to play again although I'm willing to sit out if we need room for new people.

I could be the local undertaker, but I'm a bit worried about the suspicion that will instantly be placed upon me .

As far as the letters or scribe I say simply Meh! If we want to impliment I have no problem with that but I don't think it's a big deal. I would like to possibly see the mason's be introduced though.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Note to self: never second-guess your first conclusions. I knew there were three quiet wolves....

drat drat drat!!!!

Well played indeed Oddwen. My hat, had it remained on my head before my neck snapped, would be off to you.

[Lalaith]

I should like to play this time, please.

[Celuien]

Count me in for this one. Just as advance warning, I'm taking this 8 hour long exam on June 18, so I won't be very active on the first day.

Allowing the seer to dream on the first night might give the first day's deliberations a little more direction. And I think it would help level the playing field for the villagers to have some information the first day since the werewolves already know who they are.

I'm a weaver.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

The wolves have won three times in a row! Congratulations Oddwen, Holbytlass & Shelob! A little drastic end for the Storyland but great game, everyone. I really enjoyed reading it

[mormegil]

Oh yes I am a big supporter of letting the seer dream on the first night. After all I found Firefoot out on the first night

[Kuruharan]

Congratulations to the newest member of Victorious Werewolves!!! The membership fee is 300 dukets (give or take, and we will be taking…) With these dues we hope to add a billiard room and informal dining area to the west wing of the building. (The way things are going I think we are going to need the space!) I believe the phantom and dancing spawn are in the Scarlet Room feasting on villagers. Don’t forget to sign up for the villager catering service (now only 100 bizants.)

Don’t forget to stop by the Gift Shoppe and purchase our lovely “I Just Won Barrow-Downs Werewolf And All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt!!!" t-shirt. Unfortunately, due to increased demand, the Shoppe has had to end the sale. T-shirts are available for the full price of 800 dirhams.

(And before you ask about special discounts for thoroughly beating the Rex et Basilius for Life of the Victorious Werewolves, I’m afraid that it is completely out of the question. We almost had the power turned off last week and we need every bit of money we can get our claws on, especially if we have to keep expanding the building. )

Now…

Slow down folks! I think we have a number of issues that need to be ironed out before we start worrying about starting the next game.

How about allowing villagers to write one "letter" per game.

In other words, on a night that a villager is scared of being slain, that villager can pm the game moderator with a "letter" addressed to the townspeople sharing his final thoughts and wishing them well.

Now, if you send the mod a letter and you are not killed you cannot ever send a letter again. You only get one chance.

This might be an idea to try. However, if we do implement it, I’d like to ask that there to be a ban placed on people coming over to this thread and giving their last words and so forth after they’ve been killed. I don’t like this practice, I think it is unfair to the people still playing and I also think that it is inevitably going to lead to trouble sooner or later. I’d like to have it stopped before we have a game ruined because somebody said too much on this thread.

Secondly, I think that the Werewolves should be prohibited from talking behind the scenes (by PM) during the day. They can plan a strategy for the day during their night-time discussions but to give them the opportunity to coordinate what they do during the day as the day unfolds does, I think, give them rather too much power.

I’m not so sure I agree with this. However, that may just be that bit of pro-werewolf bias I have creeping into my thinking.

Also, when I play "mafia" (same thing as werewolf) my friends and I have a non-participation rule that I really like. If someone goes through a day period without making an accusation, defending someone, or putting forth a theory, that person is automatically killed at the end of the round (after the lynching).

The moderator simply says "You didn't say enough- you're dead".

Here we have a very difficult issue. In principle, I agree that there should be some rule about participation. However, no matter how I look at implementation I only see problems.

First of all, I think there has to be a clearly defined standard of what the cutoff point would be. I think this standard should be beyond the control of whoever is occupying the position of mod. Obviously, if The Barrow Wight is modding the game he can do whatever he jolly well pleases, but even at that I’d ask him for the sake of the balance and playability of the game to have a clear and understandable standard. I mean all sorts of bad things could happen if the rule is spongy and largely up to the subjective opinion of the mod…nasty arguments and such if a questionable participation kill costs one side the game (and questionable kills would happen if the rule is vague).

Then the problem becomes, how to set the standard. Setting a minimum post count seems dreadfully arbitrary, but judging the content of a post can be painfully subjective. I mean somebody could be trying a strategy of some sort to draw out a werewolf or lay low as a werewolf by saying little and being non-committal. Are they going to be axed because of the way they are trying to play?

I think this issue requires some serious discussion before it is accepted.

And I still think we should add masons to the mix. That could balance the power.

I’m kind of in agreement with the phantom on this. However, I’m not sure we should call them “masons” on the general principle of avoiding the names of organizations that actually exist in the real world.

P.S. Hookbill’s movie card is absolutely hilarious!!!

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Thanks Kuruharan, glad someone likes it.

Just a quick question. How long do we intend to keep these games going? And, if we end up with many Tol in Gaurthor threads, will the mods move it to a separate section like they did with the chapter-by-chapter discussions?

[the phantom]

As with the last game, count me in unless there is not enough room.

About my idea for letters, Kuru said-

This might be an idea to try. However, if we do implement it, I’d like to ask that there to be a ban placed on people coming over to this thread and giving their last words and so forth after they’ve been killed. I don’t like this practice, I think it is unfair to the people still playing and I also think that it is inevitably going to lead to trouble sooner or later. I’d like to have it stopped before we have a game ruined because somebody said too much on this thread.

I agree with that.

I also agree that werewolves should be allowed to talk during the day.

And yes, the non-participation rule would be touchy. In real life it's rather easy, because the people I play with are all friends and if I toss them out they don't fight with me. If someone new is playing with us and they object, I just glare at them and say something like "Stop whining, you're out."

That probably wouldn't go over so well here.

But I'd still like to have such a rule. Could anyone suggest guidelines? Maybe... 1) must vote, 2) must post once other than their vote, 3) must accuse someone or defend someone or significantly bolster someone else's attack or defense.

And I'm glad you like the "masons" idea. That would definitely help the villagers a bit. But yes, we would want a name other than "masons". Perhaps "elf friends"?

[Anguirel]

phantom, I'd accept your non-participation motion if you let people say when they had a leave of absence.

The "elf-friends" sound cool-we could even make them simply "elves"-but what do they do?

[mormegil]

With respect to killing off non-participating members I agree that we need strict rules that we need to adhere to. We do, however, need to leave the quiet approach a valid strategy for wolves to use. So my idea is as follows

1. Need to vote daily with a one exception rule due to RL concerns not simply strategy. The strategy issue would need to be self-governed but I know that we could handle that.

2. There should be one post a day beside the vote. Now I don't think it is needed to have a definate accusation of defense but we ought to be suspicious of those who don't.

I don't think that the wolves should have the DAY to use to strategize as this gives them great advantage to use what somebody says in the debate against them. I think they need to come up with a general strategy and improvise as the day progesses.

[the guy who be short]

Additional rules will be posted at the beginning of the game itself, so don't worry about trawling through this threafd if you're busy.

More rules:

Wolves should not PM by DAY - It would be quite suspicious in an actual village if three of the villagers just wandered off for a little chat in a corner...

Non-participation: Anybody who doesn't post for 24 hours will be killed automatically, with the exception of telling the others in advance on this thread. They must post more than just a vote (if they choose to vote) per DAY, though his could be as little as a short explanation.

Concerning Seer-dreaming on the first night, Elf-friends and letters, I'm not really bothered here, but if there is widespread support for the addition of these, I'll put them in. They will be implemented if more than half the villagers support them (giving no opinion will count as a no).

Edit: I don't think voting should be made compulsory, it could deduct from strategy. As for the "1 post plus voting post" - that has been put in above.

[Kuruharan]

Non-participation: Anybody who doesn't post for 24 hours will be killed automatically, with the exception of telling the others in advance on this thread. They must post more than just their vote (if they choose to vote).

While I realize this may seem like I'm backtracking, but I don't favor allowing people who are currently playing in the game to post in this thread for any reason, even after they are dead. If they have to take an extended leave from the game for whatever reason then they can just announce in the game thread that they are taking a little trip. While I'm not in favor of trying to force people to play a certain way, I do think that they should only have a limited time to be on said trip. I don't like people who sign up to play and then take off and barely show up. It is hard enough on the villagers as it is.

I think that it is also important that whatever we decide on this issue, we either make sure that everybody agrees with it or The Barrow Wight validates it so that we can make this a general rule above the control of whatever mod happens to be running the game at that time.

I'm not sure "Elf-Friends" is the best term for it either. I would suggest that we call them "Lambengolmor" after Feanor's Masters of Languages that he founded in Aman and who followed him into exile. Pengolod was one of them who stayed until about the end of the Second Age. However, "Lambengolmor" is a rather clumsy and awkward word at the best of times. Unfortunately, it is the only Tolkienish thing I can think of to call them...aside from "Gwaith-in-Mirdain" which is scarcely less awkward. That could be just the “Mirdain”, but I'm not sure we want to go down that road. The villagers have enough troubles already.

EDIT: If we are starting on Friday I won't be able to play because I'm going on a trip for Father's Day and I don't want to be hypocritical.

[Anguirel]

I support the see-dream, the letters and the elf-friends...though once more, I would like to know what the latter do! Could someone drop me a PM, perhaps, to avoid crowding up the thread?

[Kuruharan]

I would like to know what the latter do! Could someone drop me a PM, perhaps, to avoid crowding up the thread?

Actually, I think this is probably something that may deserve a little more discussion, and open discussion too.

The idea behind the secret society (whatever we're going to call them) is to create at least some people in the village who know that another person is innocent. That way the two of them can talk together and be able to trust each other. They will also know that if somebody starts attacking them for some reason, the attacker may be a werewolf. Anyway, the useful possibilities fall along that line.

Basically the goal is to try to provide the villagers a clue, something that has been a tad lacking thus far.

However, we will also have to discuss when they can PM each other. I don't agree with the idea that werewolves cannot PM during the day, but if they can't PM during the day I suppose fairness dictates that the society members cannot either.

(grumble...don't like this limit on discussion business...)

[Lalaith]

Personally I don't think villagers should be able to trust each other.

But if we are going to have a mason/elf-friend thing, perhaps it could be something to do with osanwe-kente?

[the guy who be short]

Kuru, it doesn't make sense to me that villagers can wander off from acusing one another to privately discuss things by themselves. It would deduct from realism... *Realises this is a game with werewolves in it. Abruptly shuts up about realism*
Again, lots of support for day-time PMs (for werewolves or the secret-society, if the latter is even implemented) would result in me putting them in.

Players will be banned from posting here until the game ends, agreed.

[Anguirel]

I like the Mirdain idea, but if others don't, here are some alternatives:

-Fellowship
-Rangers
-Bounders
-Blood-brothers
-or even Istari (don't like that much myself)

I think it would work to have the Mirdain PM only in the day and the Werewolves at night, symbolising their separate spheres of power and influence.

[Shelob]

"Wolves should not PM by DAY - It would be quite suspicious in an actual village if three of the villagers just wandered off for a little chat in a corner..." ~TGWBS

I understand the reasoning behind this and agree with it to an extent, but I would side rather more with Kuru and state that I do dislike it...

However, should majority rule that werewolves cannot PM during the day I would like to make one plea on behalf of werewolves for whom 'NIGHT' conflicts with their 'Real Life Day'...If a werewolf knows that they're not going to be on for the 'NIGHT' phase they should be allowed to PM night stategies ONLY to their fellow werewolves ...I know this is based on the honour system and that it's therefore open to abuse, but at least then the unfortunate werewolf can sleep/work/go-to-school in (relative) peace knowing that they were able to voice an opinion...(I would suggest they're only allowed one PM, but that's even more dependent upon the honour system)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Players should be banned from posting things like "Oh, now I'm dead!" but I think that they should still be allowed to ask questions about technicalities or other gameplaying aspects.

Here and now I want to highlight the mistakes I made in moderating the last game (only two!) just to try and help future moderators. Don't overlook anything!

1) Even after Saucepan Man suggested I watch out for use of terms 'his' 'he' 'her' and 'she' I still went and made a mistake. Something about the Seer and her dreams. A couple of observant players notified me very quickly, for which I am grateful!

2) I also forgot to pick a Guardian! So I had to randomly choose one of the ordinary villagers and PM her back to let her know! Thankfully there was no confusion.

And Saucy made reference to my 'flair' on the other thread....

Also, tgwbs, be sure to set aside plenty of time when starting the game and assigning roles; it takes a lot longer than you'd think!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Another tip, this time about the Hunter.

Because Azaelia couldn't get on the internet regularly, I suggested that she did the following: every time she got on, she PMd me with her current choice of villager to kill should she be lynched in the evening or slain in the night.

This meant that I could post her death scene without waiting for her to contact me. I think it worked out really well.

For anyone who's interested, her original suspicions were Saucepan Man and the phantom before eventually making a great choice - the werewolf Holbytlass.

[Esgallhugwen]

I would like to participate in the next game if there is still enough room.

Mormegil took my idea, I wanted to be an undertaker type character, oh well great minds think alike