Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I received the identity under the old rules though. I don't see how that can change retroactively.

Well, I assume it's since there's no definitive proof that Shasta was Amandil, even if we do believe you.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Steve

Well, I assume it's since there's no definitive proof that Shasta was Amandil, even if we believe.

Exactly.

(looking at the rules...)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Well, I assume it's since there's no definitive proof that Shasta was Amandil, even if we do believe you.

Other than the fact that he was a known Gifted, and said he was Amandil.

[Inziladun]

I realize it's a self-serving argument, but why would Shasta have lied? Amandil's only gift was having the identity of one of his heirs made known. Without knowing who Amandil is, it's meaningless.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I realize it's a self-serving argument, but why would Shasta have lied? Amandil's only gift was having the identity of one of his heirs made known. Without knowing who Amandil is, it's meaningless.

It's not about not trusting you or Shasta. It's about the fact that the whole point of the game is that their's no certainty of gifted roles.

[the phantom]

But of course, if we use the "proven" standard, then Elendil can send a dream to anyone as he himself never dreams thus he cannot "know" anything.

(The intent is clear, of course. Just having fun.)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

It's not about not trusting you or Shasta. It's about the fact that the whole point of the game is that their's no certainty of gifted roles.

True. My point though is that we know Shasta was innocent, and I see no reason for an innocent to falsely claim to be Amandil. Like I said, that defeats the purpose of the role.

[Eönwë]

This is what I meant to post with my last post. Bolding mine.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

-Amandil. Upon his death the Valar grant him a boon, and so the identity (but not exact role) of the next in his line (Elendil, or if he’s dead then Isildur...) is revealed to a randomly selected ordo immediately after his death.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

The receiver of the dream sees “King’s Man”, “ordo”, or “gifted” – not a gifted’s specific role.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

SPECIAL NOTE: the narrations will NOT reveal a gifted’s role.

edit: x-ed with the last two posts.

[the phantom]

Okay, so I cannot receive a dream, Brin cannot receive a dream, and Inzil cannot receive a dream. Also, Anarion cannot self-protect. Those are the pertinent points here, and they are worth considering for the sake of strategy...

[Inziladun]

In line with Steve's last, I'll say that I don't know who is Elendil or Isildur. I only have the name of which player has one of those roles.

x/d with phantom

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

True. My point though is that we know Shasta was innocent, and I see no reason for an innocent to falsely claim to be Amandil. Like I said, that defeats the purpose of the role.

I really don't think anyone doubts that Shasta was Amandil. I put him as that in my list because I think it's pretty much agreed that that was the case. But since the Moddess said she wouldn't give any information about gifted roles then she didn't.

I think we can move on from this discussion (which isn't really a discussion, just the three of us agreeing), because it's pretty clear you're not going to be forced to retract your 'dream'.

Originally Posted by the phantom

But of course, if we use the "proven" standard, then Elendil can send a dream to anyone as he himself never dreams thus he cannot "know" anything.

(The intent is clear, of course. Just having fun.)

This is totally going to turn into a philosophical discussion, isn't it? Where's Noggie when you need to discuss epistemology?


edit: x-ed since my last

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

This is totally going to turn into a philosophical discussion, isn't it? Where's Noggie when you need to discuss epistemology?

What came first, the ordo or the wolf?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

This is totally going to turn into a philosophical discussion, isn't it? Where's Noggie when you need to discuss epistemology?

What is the Form of Wolf?

EDIT: Seems Zil and I had a similar idea.

[Inziladun]

Anyway, I'll keep the Heir's ID to myself. If they want to reveal, I'll just confirm it.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

What came first, the ordo or the wolf?

depends if the innocent is a CC.

As for everything else. Zil I think narrowing the field further would be good for tomorrow in case the KM do come after you... If Lottie is telling the truth Erendil is alive meaning the gifted you have is 50/50 Anarion or Isildur. are we sure we have the luxury of waiting?

I should be around for the next hour. Sorry about this day off and day 3 collided so a lot of catching up on errands and such today.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

As for everything else. Zil I think narrowing the field further would be good for tomorrow in case the KM do come after you... If Lottie is telling the truth Erendil is alive meaning the gifted you have is 50/50 Anarion or Isildur. are we sure we have the luxury of waiting?

1. We absolutely do have that luxury - we're in a pretty great spot here as a village.

2. The gifted Isildur Zil dreamed of *is* Elendil. If Elendil is alive, Zil would have dreamed of him, not Anarion or Isildur.

EDIT: Zil dreamed, not Isildur.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

As for everything else. Zil I think narrowing the field further would be good for tomorrow in case the KM do come after you... If Lottie is telling the truth Erendil is alive meaning the gifted you have is 50/50 Anarion or Isildur. are we sure we have the luxury of waiting?

Well, the phantocent thinks the Heir has left enough clues that a reveal by them could be fairly well proven. I think I see what he means.

x/d with Lottie

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

As for everything else. Zil I think narrowing the field further would be good for tomorrow in case the KM do come after you... If Lottie is telling the truth Erendil is alive meaning the gifted you have is 50/50 Anarion or Isildur. are we sure we have the luxury of waiting?

That's actually inaccurate. If Lottie is telling the truth, Dun has the name of Elendil. If not, Dun's got the identity of Isildur.

As far as the reveal, I'm feeling pretty good about things. Assuming there's still a seer, they can send something to who they think is the other gifted. If not, we have a ranger who can hopefully make a good choice for toNight's protection. Assuming I understand everything correctly, we'll be fine come the Morrow, even if Dun dies (not that I wish for that to happen, of course).


EDIT: x'd with Lottie and Dun

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Loslote

The gifted Isildur dreamed of *is* Elendil.

Wait, what?

edit: oh, Zil

[Inziladun]

Do we have a KM (King's Morsul after all?

x/d with Steve

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Wait, what?

edit: oh, Zil

Pretty sure she meant- your edit, exactly.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Do we have a KM (King's Morsul after all?

Kind sir, have you not been listening to me all flipping game?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Wait, what?

edit: oh, Zil

Gah! Sorry, typo!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Kind sir, have you not been listening to me all flipping game?

Yeah, yeah. If he turns out evil, you get a cookie.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Yeah, yeah. If he turns out evil, you get a cookie.

Oooo! I love cookies!

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Morsul

Zil I think narrowing the field further would be good for tomorrow in case the KM do come after you...

I would assume Elendil is capable of narrowing the field without Inzil's help.

Originally Posted by Sally

Assuming there's still a seer, they can send something to who they think is the other gifted.

Meh- they should just send the dream to Lottie again. She came through this time, didn't she?

Or just send it to Brin. As the Night 1 dreamer I hereby declare I was lying about Brin being a proven innocent- her status is revoked. There. Now Elendil can send a dream to Brin as well.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Meh- they should just send the dream to Lottie again. She came through this time, didn't she?

Sure, that's a great plan. Unless, you know, she's a wolf.

[Morsul the Dark]

too bad no cookies.

I'm going to reread the last few pages I think I missed something. stupid hectic day.

Edit: next in line just got it.
Edit2: x'ed since Sally's cookies

[the phantom]

I'm going to laugh if Morsul and Sally are on the same team- whether good or bad.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm going to laugh if Morsul and Sally are on the same team- whether good or bad.

can't speak to this game, but yeah that happens more often than either of us will admit.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Sally

Sure, that's a great plan. Unless, you know, she's a wolf.

But if Nerwen turns out guilty then why not try her again? Maybe she's a turncoat KM. The secret role- the saboteur.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Morsul

can't speak to this game, but yeah that happens more often than either of us will admit.

Well, I for one am definitely detecting high levels of romantic tension.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by the phantom

But if Nerwen turns out guilty then why not try her again? Maybe she's a turncoat KM. The secret role- the saboteur.

It doesn't really matter who he sends it to - the Dreamer would have little choice but to accurately relay the dream. If a KM receives a dream about an ordo, they can't really say "they're a KM!" because the lynch will prove otherwise very quickly. If a KM receives a dream about a fellow KM, they can't realistically say "they're innocent" because the numbers just won't bear it out - the village will quickly realize that either the Dreamer must be a KM, or the Dreamed must be. The only risky bit is if the KM dreams about a Gifted, which is something we really, really don't want.

[the phantom]

In other news- congenital egocentrical hyperplasia has been declared "The most awesome disease ever!" by the US Surgeon General.

[Morsul the Dark]

The Phantom's last three posts are interesting

Sabateour, Awesome future role for a game would be amazing.

romantic tensions eh? Sally what do yo think? me you a movie?

awesomest disease? As a sufferer I can say it is.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

In other news- congenital egocentrical hyperplasia has been declared "The most awesome disease ever!" by the US Surgeon General.

Better known by its common name, phantomitis.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well, I for one am definitely detecting high levels of romantic tension.

This Day is gonna seem like cake after what I put you through when I see you later this month, and I am not a fan of easy death.

Remind me to tell you something privately once the game is over.

[the phantom]

Anyone reading this would swear this was Day 1.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Sabateour, Awesome future role for a game would be amazing.

Been there. Done that. Fun times.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Loslote

It doesn't really matter who he sends it to - the Dreamer would have little choice but to accurately relay the dream. If a KM receives a dream about an ordo, they can't really say "they're a KM!" because the lynch will prove otherwise very quickly. If a KM receives a dream about a fellow KM, they can't realistically say "they're innocent" because the numbers just won't bear it out - the village will quickly realize that either the Dreamer must be a KM, or the Dreamed must be. The only risky bit is if the KM dreams about a Gifted, which is something we really, really don't want.

Hence my suggestion that Elendil send the information to the person they suspect is the other gifted in the mix. Less(ish) risky.

How do we feel about suggesting Elendil send information about Lottie rather than to her? Just throwing the idea out there and seeing what you all think.