Tol-in-Gaurhoth XVII: The Saga Continues to Continue quite Continuously

[Cailín]

Wow! For once I have been on the winning side! Great game, everyone - especially Malkatoj did an excellent job as the Seer.

Mormegil, I have been wondering for quite some time... how did you know I was Gifted? I did not intentionally leave any clues. Well, I don't like you anyway. Though it was probably for the best that I died then, because I was so convinced of the guy who be furry's innocence. Even worse, because he attacked Morm so violently I was actually convinced he was the Seer and had dreamed about Morm. I could not think of another reason why he would protect me like that. Ha - I'm so easily deluded.

Are you perhaps implying, Nilp, that you have merely killed me to be louder than me for once, huh?

I enjoyed PMing with you too Glirdy, though it didn't always work out. I actually spent most of the Days desperately trying to convince Glirdan Saucepan Man was in fact innocent... and then he eventually got me killed. The irony of being the Ranger...

Anyway - I protected Shelob, Saucy and TGWBS. Sorry about the last one.

[Garin]

Sauce: Oh, I know what I meant to ask. Wolves, did you spot Glirdan as the Hunter after Cailin's revelation?

TGBWS figured out Glirdan was the hunter and I accepted his reasoning. He was also right about Malk. Before he died, however, we still thought Form was the cobbler.
[

Valier: Aha!!! I knew you were a wolf Garin!! Sorry but I guess I will always suspect you....We should call a truse (sp.?) So was it you who got me killed?

Well, we all agreed to kill you. It, of course, had to pass by me because you had voted for me. I was willing to accept the flack. I figured, I'm so used to appearing lupine that appearing so obviously a wolf- people would figure I couldn't be a wolf. It almost worked. I was willing to stick out my neck to help the other wolves. Unfortunately, I didn't expect to be the last one. I accept your truce, we seem always at odds.

Naria, I now see that The Guy knew what he was doing. I think your silence killed you off. I did enjoy some of our PMs. It is not easy being a wolf.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Farael

How could you guys be so blind!! !IT WAS OBVIOUS TGWBS AND GARIN WERE WOLVES!! but then, I had the master list. Yeah, I guess it wasn't that obvious, but watching a game of WW knowing the truth is just as stressing as playing a game.

Could have told you that... Personally, I found modding it to be MORE stressful than playing... You SO want for the game to be epic, memorable, and unpredictable. You invest even more than the players do. You're lucky you were only assistant mod.

Originally Posted by SPM

Formendacil, what were you playing at?

I've been waiting for this question since Day 1. Ah, the nectar of accurate predictions is sweet... However, you've half-answered your own questions:

Originally Posted by SPM

Still, you helped clarify in my mind mormegil's likely Cobblerishness. Once we got down to the double lynching discussions it became clear to me that morm was the Cobbler. An innocent morm would have been taking control, putting forward plans and generally being much more vocal.

Originally Posted by SPM

Oh look. Another interminably lengthy post from me. What a surprise! You were so right, Form, when you pointed out that I really know no other way of playing ...

I was playing, quite simply a game that differed drastically from my normal game, for the simple reason that it was different than normal.

Perhaps the problem is that I'm not, as I mention in-game, a very good analyzer of posts. Such skill as I have comes from the feeling I get off of people, especially with regards to their usual style of play. For that reason, I'm typically clueless until Day 3 or 4. It's also the reason I ended up, correctly, pegging you as an Innocent, and Morm as a Cobbler: I know your styles.

So, in the interests of not ever finding myself in a similar rut, it was my intention to change up my playing style... Don't be predictable- that's my advice if you want to fool me completely.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Nilp

morm--I didn't think you were a Cobbler until Lhuna told me her suspicions.

I felt that after having played with him in all but one game - not to mention falsely accusing him almost twice - I should have learned something...

And somehow I felt that Formendaga would do a better job than that were he the cobbler. Right?

tgwbw's no longer under the curse...it's you alone now, Nilp.

And Garin, geesh, how I envy you. Two out of three?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

And somehow I felt that Formendaga would do a better job than that were he the cobbler. Right?

Of course not. I wasn't lying in the slightest when I said:

"I'm somewhat insulted that some of you seem to think me a Cobbler. Seriously, do you honestly think I'd be such a blatantly obvious Cobbler? Give me some credit people! I may not be a genius, but I have some skill in this game... If I were being a Cobbler, I'd be as quiet, normal, and devious as I could be. And you have my full and explicit permission to drag up that quote against me in any future game."

And I stand by that...

[Garin]

Well, I'm currently repped-out. More to come.
And I almost forgot-- Accolades to Sauce for noting in my profile that I play poker. In retrospect I best get rid of that fact. It basically answers... Is Garin capable of bluffing?
Well, yes he is...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Thanks, everyone, this was a great game!

Menel: My experience of modding is that it's awfully stressing and needs a lot of work (okay, it's fun, too, but that's irrelevant here). Anyone who can make the Days and Nights start on time and make up the deaths for right people is a hero of mine. Well done!

The Wolves: It was a very nice try, but malkatoj's excellent performance as the Seer kind of ruined your efforts.

Formendacil: Ha! I knew you were innocent. Although...

Originally Posted by Form

I should let you all know, right now, that I am the Ranger, and I've dreamed about all of the villager, and if anyone kills me, I'll kill Nilp, 'cause he wants to be lynched

***

And if you believe everything I've said, you're madder than I am!

...that "everything" there made me think that perhaps you are one of the Gifteds acting in a cobblerish way so that the wolves wouldn't kill you, but later on I abandoned the thought.

Originally Posted by Sauce who still has his Pans

And why do I always suspect you dancing spawn, even when you have come across as nothing but innocent all game? It must be a habit, I suppose. But it did nearly lead us to lynch both you and Kath on the penultimate day, which would probably have proved disastrous.

Well, I would have been disappointed if no-one had really suspected me during this game. It was delightful to stay alive till the end for a change, though, so I'm glad that you didn't lynch me.


Oh, and thanks for my Personal Cobbler, although I didn't need it this time.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Was I that blantantly obvious?? I thought I was doing a pretty good job, but, now, when I think about it, that post where I put down whom I thought was innocent was probably rather obvious.

Again, it wasn't down to anything that you did wrong. But so many people had accused and/or voted for Cailin that, crossing them and those who she had accused/voted for off and looking at those who had defended her/she had defended, there was really only a small pool to choose from (namely you and TGWBS).

Originally Posted by Glirdan

TGWBS, you had me going thinking you were the Seer for the longest time.

Yes, I had the guy who be cunning down as one of my candidates for Seer too. I didn't spot malka at all, even after she suddenly changed from wanting me dead to thinking me innocent. You see, rightly or wrongly, I work on the assumption that the Seer will dream of me early on and look for those who seem to think me innocent in the early stages. I suspect that a big dose of hubris is in order.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I was wondering the exact same thing. Do tell. I was wondering when the heck I was going to be attacked because I had a feeling that after Cailin's death, I was a sure gonner.

It is always dangerous for the Wolves to attack the Hunter, especially with so many other known innocents, so I would guess that they thought that it was safer to go for one of those that couldn't harm them. The Hunter is an interesting role because, once declared, you become a known innocent who the Wolves are reluctant to kill. But then you don't get to use your special power.

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Thanks. Saucepan's was post 107.

That's the one. I ddn't spot Nilp's message until Day 2 but, when I did, I really could not resist responding in kind. And it proved effective, since Nilp and I pretty much trusted each other from there on in.

Originally Posted by Garin

I figured, I'm so used to appearing lupine that appearing so obviously a wolf- people would figure I couldn't be a wolf. It almost worked.

Yup. You had me fooled for most of the game.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

So, in the interests of not ever finding myself in a similar rut, it was my intention to change up my playing style... Don't be predictable- that's my advice if you want to fool me completely.

I try. I really do. I tell myself that I am not going to post so frequently and at such length. And then I just get into the game and it happens.

Originally Posted by Lhuna

And Garin, geesh, how I envy you. Two out of three?

Tell me about it. I am convinced that I am destined never to be a Wolf. In fact, I am so used to playing a Villager now that I will probably make a dreadful Wolf as and when it does happen ...

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Of course not. I wasn't lying in the slightest when I said ...

Indeed. I took your comments that you would be playing very differently were you a Wolf or the Cobbler at face value, so I had pretty much crossed you off my suspect list even before malka's declaration.

Originally Posted by Garin

Accolades to Sauce for noting in my profile that I play poker.

I cannot take too much credit there. You pointed to it yourself during the game.

[WaynetheGoblin]

i will give you all one guees at why i voted for my self.

[the guy who be short]

Illamatar above, but that was fun! My first time wolfing - and henceforth, I will probably be condemned to lynching on the first few days. Alas.


I will first answer a few quick questions, even though Garin has already answered them.

Yes, after Cailin's death I realised Glirdan was the Hunter (but not until the Day after, when I had more time to analyse her posts properly). I compared her innocent lists from two days in a row and found Glirdan to be the only person on both. We decided to leave him alive... ah, but you will see why.


As for abandoning Naria - yes, that was a little harsh of me. As SpM said, I voted for you on day 2 when I knew you would come under little suspicion, so that was completely safe. Furthermore, I knew that if either of us were to die, the remainder could use it to their advantage. An old wolf ploy.

The Day of your lynching, though, I thought hard about trying to save you. I decided against it because it would incriminate me after I had gone against morm so strongly. Sorry about that... but it was either save you for one more day and incriminate myself, or let you die and appear as innocent as I did.


About people thinking I was the Seer - wow. I didn't expect that.



And finally, in phantomesque style, I have saved the wolvish Nightly discussions. They shall be up soon.

[the guy who be short]

Here it is:

I think we survived the first day in good shape. I am disturbed that Abercrombie said to look into me, I didn't even vote for her. Shelob's vote for me is bothersome as is Form's statement that I am a werewolf. Form also said TGWBS is guilty. We might see a seer in the mix, especially Shelob. I would be willing to attempt a double bluff and take out Form or Shelob. Form voted first for Valier. It could make her a prime suspect. I want to be bold and not safe with this kill, if you two make it, that is all I want...
Both of you are very quiet, I have settled down a tad. This seems to be normal behavior, but let's not screw this up. Would you prefer to be a boring lil' ordo?
Werewolves must win.
I think Form should be our vote, it will waste another villager day voting against Valier. Form is not as high profile as Sauce or Morm but is quite experienced. Though I would gladly take Shelob. Hey guy what do you think? (Garin)

Right. Formendacil is the only name you've really mentioned, which strikes me as odd, Garin, considering you said you don't want a safe kill. Formen is perfectly safe because everything he said was in jest.
I'm not sure about killing him. He claims he will be quiet tomorrow too. I also don't want a "safe" (read boring) kill. I want something that will confuse villagers.
More importantly, I want to kill certain people.
First off, the Seer. Obvious enough. The earlier we kill the Seer, the better. As of yet, they'll only know the identity of one person though. I don't think we can catch them for a few days when clues build up.
The Hunter. The earlier we get the hunter, the better, as there is more chance of another innocent dying with them. Hunters often leave clues too. And, in this village, it could help us find the Ranger.
The Seer leaves obvious clues. Hunters often leave little hints. Rangers leave nothing. We'll have to depend on luck to kill the Ranger, but they aren't really a problem until gifteds reveal themselves.
The Cobbler. We need to identify this person. When we do, it is imperative not to identify with them. It may be worth mentioning it, or keeping it to yourself and sharing with our triumvirate in the night.
So, I want to try to find any hints of Seers and Hunters and I'll get back to you if I do. If not, I want a death that will confuse and that we can use to our advantage- so not Formen. He'll also probably become louder later on, which means, as Garin said, a likely lynching. (TGWBS)

I also suggested Shelob, Guy. She voted for me. Was Form really just joking? Please give me a name to consider... I say we take out Shelob, if she is a seer she might of dreamt about me first because I helped kill her in the last WWJ, and I will always be considered furry. I think it is the name and avatar. I'm on US Mountain Time, 2 hours behind EST, I can be the one who PMs the mod with a vote. I think we need the seer first, the cursed second and any other gifteds after, of course the cursed is luck of the draw (Garin)

I wouldn't advise killing Shelob. Shelob mentioned one person: you, Garin. Killing her would simply make people look at you. While we could dress it up as a werewolf set up (oh look they want us to lynch Garin!) we really shouldn't draw attention to ourselves so.
Now, we were lucky because all those nominated yesterday were innocent. I voted Abercrombie, which may bring suspicion upon me. However, absolutely everybody voted for an innocent - and that looks guilty.
Now, what I suggest is killing one of those nominated for lynching. This will expand the list of people who voted for known innocents.
The best people to kill are:
Valier (had 3 votes)
Wayne (had 3 votes).
This brings the number of people who definitely voted for an innocent up to 8. That's a considerable number to choose from, and could help confuse.
Valier voters: morm, Garin, Formen. Bad. Mentions Garin.
Wayne voters: Malka, Cailin, Valier
Wayne works. I'd rather go with him. In addition, once somebody dies, people are inclined to trust what they say. Wayne leaves little to work with, save a vote for Formen...
Thoughts? (TGWBS)

Okay Wayne will always be a target for lynching, I will kill him if Shorty sticks with that. Shelob could be the seer, as I said I'm willing to sacrifice myself as long as the werewolves win. I don't think people will think I am bold enough to kill the girl that voted for me. She could be the cobbler. Who do you think is the cobbler? (Garin)

Do you truly believe she's the Seer, Garin? I don't believe so, as she didn't mention you at all in her first message (not reproduced here). I think the vote for you based on using a coin is sound - it seems an apathetic thing to do.
Now, I like Wayne, but I am perfectly willing to let you kill Shelob. If you do, I can't promise you a defence tomorrow, especially if she's the Seer. Even if she isn't, I spend my days trying to act as much like a villager as possible, and her death would strongly infer your guilt.
In short, what I'm saying is this: If you believe Shelob to be the Seer, I will kill her. But if we go for her, either way, I will most likely turn against you in the Day.
Naria seems quiet... (TGWBS)

Well, I think that SPM might be the Hunter, Seer being more far fetched but not impossible. His post #22 at the top really made me suspicious.
Shelob may be the cobbler, post #23. Seems a little to off to be an ordo and goes after SPM.
What do you two think? I will go with the majority with the voting, maybe even Nilp again. (Naria)

Hmm. That doesn't strike me as very hunter-y. Perhaps he did mean for there to be connotations, but I'd think SpM would be more sensible. He just seems to be saying that logic is good. I'd also like to keep him around - I want to see if I can manipulate him. I feel that I may be able to. SpM's problem is that people listen to him because they know how clever he is - then turn on him when he's wrong.
Nothing about post 23 points to Shelob's cobblerism to me. Care to extrapolate, Naria?
Also, again to Naria in particular, I'd advise you not to go after Nilp again tomorrow. I am traditionally a staunch defender of him, and will have to turn on you tomorrow. It would be best to wait for me to attack you for voting Nilp, then coming up with a defense, but I probably wouldn't be able to do so until about 11:00am EST.
I no longer think we should kill Wayne. He says little. It will seem too much like a setup, and will give three likely innocents rather than three potential werewolves.
So, unless Naria comes up with something about Shelob being the Cobbler, I'll go with killing her. However, this WILL bring suspicion upon Garin. I'll only agree to her killing if he goes with it.
One last name to bring up: Aiwendil.

Not much, but could possibly be a hint at Hunterism.

Seer hints, as I interpret them. I am now more in favour of killing Aiwendil than anybody else. He also has a go at SpM.
Now, Aiwendil is rational, but not so loud as to be lynched. These are prime enemy traits from a wolf's point of view. Aiwendil also voted Abercrombie, I could manipulate that to bring suspicion upon Kath.
I am now most in favour of killing Aiwendil. Thoughts? (TGWBS)

Okay Guy, you have sound reasoning for Aiwendil and I will go along with it. (Garin)

Aiwendil sounds good to me. I was trying to help and maybe take a look at some other players as too my thoughts on them(however brief). I have not yet been a wolf and trying to do my best. TGWBS if you would like to be the "wolf leader" then please say so. You can come after me if I vote Nilp, like you did last time, but last time I had a defence and was a gifted. This time I don't think I could come up with too much to save my hide. So do what you must(if I vote for Nilp).But i fear I will die if you do.
Talking about Nilp, why do you want to save him so bad? He comes into EVERY game and commits suicide. AND we are the wolves, does it really matter who we kill.
Not much time left, I'll go with whomever you two agree on. (Naria)

Naria - I am just as new to wolvery as you are, as astounding as it sounds! If anybody deserves to be "leader" it's Garin, but I think we should all try to input as much as possible and decide together.
As for Nilp - I wish to act in character. Every game, I protect Nilp and go after those who vote for him, as doing so is useless, an easy vote, etc.
So, I think I may have to leave now (though continue PMing me, I'll read them later!). If Naria agrees, could one of you PM Farael and say we've decided on Aiwendil. If you disagree, Naria, then I will veto killing Wayne. Anybody else we've discussed, feel at liberty to kill, if you don't choose Aiwendil.
Farewell until the morrow. (TGWBS)

Aiwendil sounds good to me. Garin are you still pm'ing Farael? TGWBS if you want to stay in character then you should, but if I'm not the only one voting for Nilp(and I won't if I am the only one) maybe don't make a huge deal about me (mention me in your post but put more focus on someone else?)
I don't think that we should have a leader per say. The three of us should just take everything that the three of us have too say into consideration and one of us pm the mod. Working together is going to get us lycans further. (Naria)

I have snatched a few more minutes of internet time!
Seeing as we're all agreed, and Garin hasn't replied yet, I'm sending this to Farael too (in the same PM)
Farael, we have decided to kill ++AIWENDIL. (TGWBS)

[The Saucepan Man]

Hmm, fascinating stuff.

Originally Posted by the guy who be manipulative

I'd also like to keep him around - I want to see if I can manipulate him. I feel that I may be able to.

I'm probably actually quite easy to manipulate as, while I am loud and set out my opinions, I generally have little conviction in them unless they are affirmed by others.

I would say that you succeeded to an extent guy, but your determined pursuit of morm did shake my trust in you a bit.

Originally Posted by the guy who speak true

SpM's problem is that people listen to him because they know how clever he is - then turn on him when he's wrong.

Amen to that!

Only, I am not actually that clever at this game as I am usually wrong in my suspicions. People just seem to think I am because I always have something to say.

Originally Posted by the guy who have the same idea as me

Not much, but could possibly be a hint at Hunterism.

Funny. I thought the exact same thing.

[Garin]

Posted by Sauce: I cannot take too much credit there. You pointed to it yourself during the game.

I did? Well that was idiotic of me.

[Glirdan]

The Hunter. The earlier we get the hunter, the better, as there is more chance of another innocent dying with them. Hunters often leave clues too.

This time, you were wrong. I've only left three intentional hints about it. Two of them are the Arrow at the top of my posts and the other was saying Cailin is innocent.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Sauce

Tell me about it. I am convinced that I am destined never to be a Wolf. In fact, I am so used to playing a Villager now that I will probably make a dreadful Wolf as and when it does happen ...

Methinks I've found a perfect fellow wolf if I ever become one...

Originally Posted by tgwbw

I'd also like to keep him around - I want to see if I can manipulate him. I feel that I may be able to.

Ooh...scaaaary...

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Methinks I've found a perfect fellow wolf if I ever become one...

You had your chance! You know what I mean

I've been meaning to say I always thought I would make a good cobbler because playing normally makes me a good cobbler.

[Gil-Galad]

one thing that puzzles me was when morm said to lynch saucey, and i noted that morm is a cobbler and garin a wolf, then gari nand glirdy said i was playing dumb


i'm confused?

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

one thing that puzzles me was when morm said to lynch saucey, and i noted that morm is a cobbler and garin a wolf, then gari nand glirdy said i was playing dumb


i'm confused?

Well I had already proclaimed myself as the cobbler and everybody knew it, or so we thought. So it seemed that you didn't notice my proclamation and made the observation yourself. Being that nobody would listen to me any way, not even Garin seemingly, I was being facetious and coy.

[the guy who be short]

I would appreciate some advice on how to avoid lynching. I have been warned not to change my habits but I have had to do so out of neccessity. This is actually the longest I've made it as both a villager and an wolf, so maybe it is isn't so bad.
I am willing to pull a bluff and take out one of my detractors-- Valier or Cailin.
Marcolie might be a good idea, Form might be a cobbler.
I want the cursed so bad. We will surely win if we succceed in that lottery.
TGWBS voted against one of us, it ended up being a good bluff. I'm glad it didn't start a bandwagon.
So, who is our next feast my furry partners? (Garin)

I don't really know what to tell ya Garin, I realize that work should be first but in making your decision to do your work it has made people suspicious. You must admitt that the way that you are playing this game is NOT at all the way that you play other games....In saying that I don't know how some people can fly below the radar the whole game ie: Malka. She made a huge mistake and voted for a dead guy! Then retracted her vote. I thought that we weren't allowed to do that no matter what excuse.
Anyway, I'd like to get rid of Cailin and Morm they are both onto us. However this would cast direct suspision on us if we do kill either one of them right now....thoughts? (Naria)

I want to keep morm around because he probably thinks I am an innocent and will not vote for me. I am willing to take down Cailin even though it will cast suspicion upon me, I don't care, it is always upon me. (Garin)

The thing with voting for Cailin is that she didn't put you(Garin) in her post but me and TGWBS in. I would love to get rid of her though....she's too close for comfort. And what is up with Form? (Naria)

Naria, my dear I believe Cailin VOTED for me. If she is truly going after all of us, I say good riddance. As for Form, maybe a cobbler? Maybe just has an ego and help when Sauce takes over. (Garin)

Do either of you know if SPM acts like he is in most games that he is in? Like he is trying to take over...

I guess it wouldn't really matter if Cailin dies then. Don't really know who else right now. Maybe I'll go check and see. (Naria)

Hello guys (generically, of course, Naria ),

Naria, I voted for you because:

1) It was safe, but I can say it wasn't. It was early and made you equalise with the others, but you were unlikely to develop into a bandwagon and get voted for.

2) It will help us. If either of us two should die, we can point to this to take some pressure off of us.

Now, we need a plan for you tomorrow. I need to keep enough pressure on you continually that, if the need should develop, I can vote for you, but also not enough pressure for me to go ahead with it now.

Here's what I think your defence should be:

You voted at such a time that it was almost certain your vote would be the last. In this case, you could either cement Abercrombie's death - give reasons why you didn't want to - or cast a vote that would not alter the outcome at all. You did the latter, voting for who you believe to be most guilty, at the time.

This will allow me to take pressure off you for your "throwaway" vote as, in reality, there was little you could do. The best defence for voting for Nilp is this: You don't know whether he's innocent or guilty, and he has the perfect bluff if he is a wolf. Therefore, it is safest to lynch him.

Now, Naria, wolves are also infamous for sticking around near the end to vote. You must try not to do this tomorrow.

In addition, try to post more - I don't want people to be able to cast suspicion on you due to your quietness.

That is all.


Garin, I feel you are doomed... I will give some thought to how you should act tomorrow once I've looked at possible people we could kill tonight.
And yeah, I screwed up with Aiwendil... (TGWBS)

I couldn't get on at all yesterday because I didn't have a computer and everything set up on it till after the deadline. I KNOW that that is gunna come back and bite me in the butt. Hopefully not too hard
TGWBS--So you are going to mention me in today's post? That is why I should bring up voting for Nilp? I went through all of the posts from everyone and am really confused right now.
Cailin looks like she might get lynched today, came pretty close between her and Shelob yesterday. And a few people are suspicous of her. Now should we eat her tonight or let the village deal with her? Her and Morm are really the only one's that have us in there sights and because of this I think one of them should die tonight....thoughts? (Naria)

Righto. I've had a quick look over what's been happening, what you guys have said, and what the village did, once again. For the record:

1. Malkatoj - Nilp (Malkatoj - 1)
2. Kath - malkatoj (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1)
3. Garin - Valier (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1)
4. Cailin - mormegil (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1)
5. Shelob - SpM (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 1)
6. Naria - TGWBS (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 1; Naria - 1)
7. Shelob - spawn (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1)
8. SpM - Formen (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1; SpM - 1)
9. Garin - Cailin (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 2; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1; SpM - 1)
10. Valier - Kath (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 2; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1; SpM - 1; Valier - 1)
11. Cailin - Shelob (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 2; Cailin - 2; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1; SpM - 1; Valier - 1)
12. Shelob - Garin (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 2; Cailin - 2; Shelob - 3; Naria - 1; SpM - 1; Valier - 1)
Did not vote Gil Galad, Glirdan, Marcolie Lamen, wayne, Naria

Naria, you will need to come up with an excuse for not voting. Computer problems would be good.

Killing Cailin - Perhaps. She feels I am innocent, but casts suspicion on Naria early on and votes Garin. Two out of three. So I support killing her if you feel you need to. Garin, you can claim this is a set up to make you look guilty, but be careful not to do so until it is brought up. The thing is, morm suspects Cailin, and indeed voted for her. Leaving her in could fuel antagonism. There is also ill will between Cailin and spawn that we could manipulate - I feel strongly.

Killing Valier - Perhaps. I think people may find her style a little annoying, and indeed, Kath voted for her. Leaving her could also fuel antagonism. I'm more in favour of killing her than Cailin simply because, with Cailin, we can manipulate the situation. Mormegil also suspects her, so there is potential there...

Morm - I don't agree with killing him. He is respected, but wrong quite a lot. The statement where he suspects you and I, Naria, is questionable - indeed, I have already questioned him, and if he brings it up tomorrow, will do so again. This makes that case weak. I support leaving him in.

SpM - Yes, often leads debate.

Formen - Might be the cobbler, agreed.

Now, mormegil, both Garin and I are in favour of leaving. So he lives.

This leaves Valier and Cailin. If you both agree with killing Cailin, I'll go along with it. But I see a lot of potential for conflict betwixt innocents if we leave her. As for Valier, if you both agree, I'll also go with that, I have few strong opinions.

What I think we should do is capitalise on the confusion in the village. The vast range of votes cast shows that people don't know what to think. Though some people are onto us, they are in a minority.

The best way to capitalise on the confusion is to kill another person who won't reveal much. Glirdan, Marcolie, Gil Galad, wayne come to mind.

But perhaps the worst thing for us is malkatoj. Her vote has made her seem innocent in the eyes of all. Having somebody so widely trusted is dangerous - the villagers could rally around her. In any case, killing her will leave more suspects in the village than leaving her.

So, in order, I support killing:
Malka,
Marcolie / wayne
Cailin / Valier

Please reply ASAP (TGWBS)

I was thinking that it would be a little premature to get rid of Cailin right now, looks like she might do a better job of killing herself(lynched) than we would. And would it not cast direct suspicion of Garin and I? I will leave her alone for now.
I agree with the people that you have listed. I'm thinking Glirdan might be a gifted...which one I'm not too sure. Form could very well be our Cobbler. So we should get rid of the ones that would not help the villagers for the next day. I will go with Valier however she did vote for Garin, maybe one of the others? Any one of those you listed TGWBS is good for me. I also had most of them on my list.
I will try to defend myself the best I can without being overly defensive. If you mention Nilp I will attack you(shorty). I don't know if it would be a good idea to bring Nilp up again, unless you wanted people to really look at me. It worked last game... (Naria)

Naria - I will indeed be attacking you tomorrow. It would seem inconsistent not to - I will bring your vote up early, if possible.

You should retaliate defensively. Please don't attack me though. It would create a horrible situation in which the likelihood of one of us being lynched would rise exponentially. It's safer for you to stick to a defence, and me to accept it, hold you in suspicion, but move on elsewhere.

So, Naria and I are agreed on killing Valier, Glirdan, malka, marcolie, wayne.

So far, Garin has shown interest in killing Valier. The best thing to do now is to wait for Garin to appear and share his thoughts on these villagers.

Naria, do you have an particular preference out of the five above? Could you perhaps put them in order, and then Garin could do the same, and then we could decide? (TGWBS)

Malkatoj? I thought her vote makes her look guilty, but what do I know.
I would go for
1)Valier
2)Ang
3)Malk (Garin)

Garin - Ang(uirel) isn't playing!

Malka's vote has widely made her seem innocent because people feel a wolf wouldn't make such a mistake.

So, Garin, perhaps a revised list without Ang and with the other four people mentioned as candidates - Marcolie, Glirdan, Wayne, Gil - and then we we could make comparisons and decide? (TGWBS)

Valier, sounds like this is one dead villager today
TGWBS please don't back me into to tight of a corner today from which I cannot get out of concerning Nilp....

Preferences: Valier
Malka
Cailin
Glirdan
Wayne
Marcolie
In this order. (Naria)

Valier tops two lists, so it looks like it's her. Before we finalise, though, give me a few minutes to analyse any potential outcomes of her death. (TGWBS)

I meant Cailin not Ang, for some reason I keep wanting to call her that, I've almost done it in the game. (Garin)

Here are possible outcomes and plans for the death o Valier:

1) Kath voted for Valier. This will make her seem more innocent, and she will turn her thoughts elsewhere. She could really go anywhere, though she thinks spawn is innocent. A bit of a wildcard really.

2) Valier voted for Garin. As soon as this is mentioned, you must shake it off as a double bluff, Garin. "I already got votes, then this, it's a set up," etc. This works well as you are the only one she mentioned yesterday.

That's it really. I doubt people will look back to Day 1, when Valier voted for Wayne, and Formen, morm and Garin voted for Valier.

Seeing as we are all in accord, I will PM Menel in an hour's time - this should be enough time to raise any worries or thoughts you guys might have about killing her. (TGWBS)

...and Guy try to go easy on Naria. I don't think it is really necessary to continue the accusations unless is brought up again. Be consistent but don't get the girl lynched.
Wish me luck... and the best of luck to you two. (Garin)

C'est tout. Looking back, it's annoying how close we came to killing Malka and Glirdan so early on.

[Glirdan]

Sheez! If you would have gotten rid of me that Night, I would have taken SpM with me!! Then you guys would have really won!

Garin, I take it you didn't attack me because you thought I was going to continue hunting you at Night even though I said for two days in a row that I thought you were just a very framed up innocent? Well, you could have because I didn't hunt you. That's what I love about being the Hunter. People don't know whom you will decide to hunt!!

Now, thinking back on everything that happened, if you guys would have attacked Cailin on Night 3 and then me on Night 4 and you could won...barely.

Well, this was an awsome game and the next game is going to be even better! Thanks for a great game everyone!!!

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by mormegil

You had your chance! You know what I mean

Go rub it in, will you?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Are you perhaps implying, Nilp, that you have merely killed me to be louder than me for once, huh? (Cailín otR)

No, I assure you I didn't. I just pointed out the fact that I ended up posting more than you. Kinda surprised of that myself.

Oh, and thanks for my Personal Cobbler, although I didn't need it this time. (spawn)

I must be a moderating influence, eh?

Re: Werewolf conversations. Wow, that's a lot of Nilp there . . . no wonder I kept on tripping and sneezing and biting my tongue.

I ddn't spot Nilp's message until Day 2 but, when I did, I really could not resist responding in kind. And it proved effective, since Nilp and I pretty much trusted each other from there on in.

Sauce, how about we talk by anagrams the next game?

Hey, has anyone ever find out where I got Bethiril and Narvi, son of Gimli from? Extra points to whoever who tells me correctly . . .

[Cailín]

Sheez! If you would have gotten rid of me that Night, I would have taken SpM with me!! Then you guys would have really won!

Ah, you are wrong there, Glirdy. Since I knew you were going to hunt Sauce, I specifically PM-ed Menel to ask whether I could protect from Hunter attacks as well. He told me I could, so if the wolves had decided to kill you, I would still have protected Sauce. Though that would have been a rather awkward situation!

Interesting read, those PMs. I see you had full confidence in me being able to get myself lynched. Good for us you decided not to kill Malkatoj, but I still think Valier was a pretty good call that night. With all the loudmouths still alive, things were bound to explode.

[Lhunardawen]

Been reading the 'cross sticks again, and I just felt I should say that Nilp and SpM, you are such Lhunatics.

Wait.

[the guy who be short]

Night 4! And the sneaky thoughts of Garin and Naria.

Well it's obvious who will die tonight, we can't let an admitted gifted live. It just isn't right.
I am doing better than I thought, I am still alive and flushed out a good guy and not one vote against me today. I know I will suspected as a wolf but what else is new?
So far I think our chances are good. We've gone this far without a casualty.
Some mods say if a cursed is lynched most don't I think.
Mormegil looks to be the prime candidate for lynching for the next day, I'll probobaly be second, Sauce might be in there because I back him up.
Who is the seer though... Kath? (Garin)

I can't believe that all three of us wolves are still here! Especially you Garin. Would it surprise you if Marcolie was a gifted? Wouldn't surprise me in the least. But I don't suspect her of anything let alone a gifted, so I digress.

OK, so that was fun!not. I don't believe that Cailin could pull off a bluff like that so I say we kill the village Ranger tonight. And maybe Morm tomorrow (i know Garin, but I think he might be the Hunter)

So far it looks like we are safe for now.... (Naria)

Morm - Definitely we need to feast on ranger tomorrow. I think Cailin was telling the truth, she struck me as a gifted from the very first. I think Morm will be lynched by the village during the day if all goes well. I've been sucking up to SpJ and defended him so I hope I am safe from his vote. I plan on being a top suspect. Somehow I managed to almost get my nemesis lynched and tonight she dies. TGWBS is sitting pretty, everyone has vouched for him it seems. Naria should look out for Kath, but i think she'll survive the day.
I think I can manage to survive the next day unless the seer becomes blatant and I hope he or she does. I've surely been dreamed of...
Do you really think Morm is the Hunter, Naria?
I won't? vote for him because I think he considers me innocent. He is a perennial ordo and probably can't imagine that I'd be a wolf two times out of three games. I have no problems with offing him if he makes it another day. I just think he'll be Mr Suspicious and will likely get the rope.

Maybe we can be revolutionaries and not kill the admitted gifted. We know who she is and no she can't protect herself. We or you two could finish her off the next night. I would only go for this if we get a decent scent of a seer. This would knock over the village if we did this.
Marcolie as gifted, if she is she is doing a crappy job, or maybe a good one.
As I have said as long as werewolves win, I am happy.
Who is the seer for pete's sake? (Garin)

Keeping Cailin alive for one more day! Great minds think alike I guess. After I sent my pm out to you guys I started thinking 'what if we keep her alive, wouldn't that throw the village off--toy with them shall we say'. We would have something new to talk about other than he said she said and bantering. Then kill her in the next night. hmmm just something to think about.

I really don't get the feeling that either one of us are going to get lynched in the next couple of days *cross fingers*. and yes TGWBS is in clear for some reason(good though). Garin--Just keep doing what you are doing, don't change anything and hope for the best, that 's what I'm doing.

well let me know what you two think and get back to me. I will kill her tonight as well; the other was an idea (Naria)

It is a bold move Naria but if Cailin were to survive the night it would turn suspicion back onto her. The only problem is that she is protecting someone and if her choice survives our kill she will be vindicated. So we need a Seer bad, It could be one of the silents that are afraid of becoming wolf bait. Marc, Gil. Glirdan, Kath you know very well she will be thinking of someone to protect. If Morm is the hunter he will not be taking me out. But if we take Morm out, I will be be the king of suspicion. Someone must have dreamt of us, namely me. I am wolf-boy, or so it seems. But the first few dreams might have been of veterans. So... I thing SpM, Morm and Form are not seers.... It brings us to the others. Who? I will await replies.

Kath or Malkatoj? Maybe we can even bag the cursed. It is quite the gamble. I think our current sear is afraid of us but will become bolder as she has more dreams.... Maybe SpM is the cobbler although Form seems to fit the bill. (Garin)

First sentence: Does it really matter if suspicion is cast back onto her? Either us or the village she'll die.
Second sentence:If she does turn out to be vindicated then we can still kill her that night, can we not?
Third sentence: I agree that we need the seer, but as of now I don't know whom that could be. If we stick to our list Glirdan would be the next one. or Cailin
Fourth sentence:Why would you be the king of suspicion if we take Morm out? I haven't seen anything that has happened with you two in the game, I don't get this one

I'll go and check the thread and see if I can come up with some seerisms

I get the Morm thing now thanks. and I get the Cailin thing too However, I got to think'n again and if we don't kill her then wouldn't she know four ordo's? Herself, the Hunter and the two she has already protected assuming that I'm right on this and assuming the two ordo's are ordo's.

It would be neat to see her squirm though and everyone else baffled Sorry if I seem a bit evil tonight it must be the changing back and forth--Wolf to human and back.... (Naria)

First off, morm is NOT the Hunter. Hunter and Ranger can communicate. That means we need to find an ally of Cailin if we are to find the hunter.

I recommend killing off Cailin. While she did get a few votes, I don't think there's any real suspicion against her. I think the village would realise the trick and not fall for it.

In addition, if we kill the Ranger, the Seer has so protection whatsoever and cannot declare themself without certain death. I say, Ranger today, Seer or Hunter tomorrow. (TGWBS)

I had already mentioned killing her tonight in my last pm. So sure, I'll have Ranger for supper!
I don't understand Morm NOT being the Hunter. How do you know this? I mean unless you have talked outside of the game how is there anyway of really knowing who is what right now? He very well could be an ordo, but I was just looking at possibilities.

In your second paragraph; the village not falling for the trick--do you mean that having little suspicion that there would be more if she were kept alive? If so wouldn't that be a good thing? It's either they kill her or if they have caught on and keep her alive we'll kill her next night (Naria)

Hunters

Cailin was the Ranger, that's easy enough to grasp. But the Hunter and the Ranger are in cahoots - they may PM each other and organise themselves as a force.
However, unlike the werewolves, they have no hidden agenda. This means neither would ever vote for the other. Their job is not to confuse us wolves, but to work together and convince villagers to their side.

Morm has consistently voted for Cailin, meaning it is impossible for him to be Hunter. We can also strike Nilp and SpM off this list.

Cailin claims her innocent list is as follows: Nilp, TGWBS, Glirdan, Kath, SpM (?)

This means either Glirdan or Kath is the hunter. I support Kath.

Quite interestingly, I have accidentally portrayed myself as a potential Hunter. Though I will deny this, people will doubtless presume it. So it is perhaps beneficial keeping Kath alive for the moment for my sake, though if she starts seriously suspecting an innocent (not morm, he will be killed tomorrow) we could kill her and get two in one.


Why Cailin must be killed

The Seer. If Cailin were to live, and the Seer to dream of one of us, the Seer could openly declare this and be safe in the knowledge that they would have another Night to dream about somebody. As the game progresses, this would be incredibly bad for us.

Whereas, if the Seer comes out after Cailin's death, they get an automatic death. It's much better that way.

Naria, PLEASE talk more tomorrow. The village will eventually tire and lynch you. If you want, analyse people. I will analyse Garin tomorrow, but you can pick some random people. Just say something... We can't have you killed for silence.


Wayne

That wayne is not the cobbler is quite simply remarkable, considering his behaviour. So much so that I will PM Menel after this PM to make sure...

However, this means Formen probably is the cobbler. Good thing we didn't kill him off at the start...

Also, good job we kept Cailin in, eh Garin?


I'll PM again soon with potential Seers and plans for tomorrow, but I'm adamant that we should kill of Cailin. (TGWBS)

I've already said that I won't analyse or read between the lines. I try my best to come up with theories and suggestions other than that I really do think that most in the village do a great job with analysing. I don't know what that would accomplish anyway. The village would read somthing that they have already read, possibly a few times. I am open to suggestions on how to go about doing this without doing a HUGE boring post.

We shall kill Cailin tonight then. Done.

If we both think that Form is the Cobbler, should we keep him alive and see what he does in the next couple of days? Depending on what he "says" today, I might vote for him again. (Naria)

Naria asked why Guy knew Morm was not the hunter. That is when I remembered a very hunteresque post by Nilp (The Guy's friend) that he had sent to Sauce. No time to post it. Something along the lines of...if you are lying I will shoot yoy with an arrow.
If Guy knows of a gifted. I don't know. It is unfortunate and I hope we don't have that dilemna.
Naria, try to speak up without going overboard. I declared that the silents as the enemy as has The Guy so to be consistent we need help from you. I hope Morm dies by the village's hand tomorrow.
Sorry it took so long to get back but I explained that already.
I had so many other good points but I haven't the time anymore.
Who is PMing the vote.
Cailin, I assume, Is the dead one. (Garin)

Nilp cannot be the Hunter. He voted for Cailin. The Hunter would never vote for his partner in any circumstances.

I have PMed Menel with Cailin's death. (TGWBS)

[the guy who be short]

I'm posting Night 5 here too, because both Garin and I were too busy for more than three PMs! Alas, if we had discussed more, perhaps our fortunes may have been different...

Poor Naria, I should have saved her but I voted too early. Marc is definitely the seer and hasn't dreamt of you, Guy. We must kill her/him instantly. MARC IS THE SEER, LONG LIVE NARIA! (Garin)

Naria's death hardly comes as a surprise. I think we need to anticipate what the villagers will make of it. I think I may come under suspicion for my Naria vote on day 2 - a classic wolvish ploy they'll be looking for. I hope I can deflect it.
As for Marco being Seer, it seems possible but not definite. I thought it could be malka because she attacked me at a time when almost the entire village suspected me. But I will support killing Marco, then going for malka if that should fail.
Glirdan is definitely the Hunter, by the way. 100%. I looked over everything Cailin said before her death, and nobody else fits the bill. Tomorrow, if Marco is the Seer, we can kill him, if he continues to suspect Gil or SpM, and kill two birds with one stone.
I am busy tonight, and will probably get little analysis done. Sorry. But those are my thoughts.
Tomorrow, attack whoever seems opportune, I guess. Gil seems likely.
Prepare also for an analysis of everything Naria has said. Anybody she has voted for will appear innocent, meaning Nilp, who nobody suspects anyway, and Formen, which is a little worse for us. (TGWBS)

Malkatoj could be the seer, maybe. Both her and Marcolie have been hiding. Killing Marc will make me a suspect but if we have the seer it will be worth it. I am more inclined towards Marc because she was dead on with Naria and myself and said little to back it up. I've served as a wolf before with Malkatoj and can maybe get a little loyalty from her, but that can hardly be counted on.
I too am busy and cannot offer much today myself. I will check back in and hour and a half and PM the vote for Marc if I don't hear from you by then. (Garin)

For more thoughts, you will have to ask Garin, for I died the next Day...

[Garin]

Looking back at those posts. I just want to kick myself. So many missed opportunities.
I couldn't get over The Guy being eliminated so abruptly.
After that I was tempted to vote for myself, that might have saved me.
I don't know why I was so convinced that Marcolie was the seer. I just let my anger take over. It is not easy being furry.

[Glirdan]

Ah, you are wrong there, Glirdy. Since I knew you were going to hunt Sauce, I specifically PM-ed Menel to ask whether I could protect from Hunter attacks as well. He told me I could, so if the wolves had decided to kill you, I would still have protected Sauce. Though that would have been a rather awkward situation!

That would be rather wierd. How would it work? Would you have killed me or would the Wolves??

Now I have a question for TGWBS and Garin: If you guys were positive that I was the Hunter, why didn't you kill me then?? Is it because you thought that Malka was the Seer? Because that wouln't really make sense if you knew with certainity that I was the Hunter and instead of taking two innocents (one Gifted) down in one blow you chose to take down Malka. Which does make sense. I'm just saying that wouldn't it be logical to have taken me down instead?

[mormegil]

*sigh*

If only you had killed Malka that night. I find it interesting that you didn't suspect me as the seer. I wish that you had and things might have gone differently too.

SpM what made you convinced of my cobblerishness?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by mormegil

SpM what made you convinced of my cobblerishness?

I posted earlier:

Originally Posted by me

Once we got down to the double lynching discussions it became clear to me that morm was the Cobbler. An innocent morm would have been taking control, putting forward plans and generally being much more vocal.

To expand a bit, I found it strange that you rejected the idea of a double lynch on the day that malka exposed TGWBS. You are normally up for a good double lynch and, as spawn's analysis showed, it would have been to the innocents' advantage. Then, the next day, when we were all basically agreed on a double lynch, you just sat back and let me do all the orchestrating (or try to ), which was most un-morm-like. I would have expected you to be doing a lot more organising. By that stage, I was pretty sure that you were the Cobbler, although it was not long before you confirmed it.

[Garin]

Now I have a question for TGWBS and Garin: If you guys were positive that I was the Hunter, why didn't you kill me then?? Is it because you thought that Malka was the Seer? Because that wouln't really make sense if you knew with certainity that I was the Hunter and instead of taking two innocents (one Gifted) down in one blow you chose to take down Malka

.
It is really a case of paranoia. In the beginning The Guy said I was doomed, I didn't expect to last. I was saved by the double-bluffing and then that filthy little Malkatoj showed up. I was resigned to being the wolf for the sake of the other wolves. I was certain that you (Glirdan) would pick me especially after we killed Cailin. We needed to take the seer out, once we discovered her identity. Trust me, I wanted to kill Glirdan instantly, upon discovery. But, I wanted to kill everyone.
I respected TGBWS 's propositions and deeply regret following more of a road of vengeance than reason. Of course, I think I am born more wolvish than innocent, so those are aspects of my character I need to examine and refine.

[the guy who be short]

In response to Glirdan:

I only figured out, with certainty, that you were the Hunter on Day 4. At Night 5, we wolves didn't have much time to discuss anything due to RL situations, so we took out Marco, thinking she was the Seer.

After that, Night 6, The Seer was the obvious target.

And, after that, Garin feared you would take him with you.

[Meneltarmacil]

Had the wolves attacked Glirdan on the Night that he and Cailín were protecting/hunting SpM, the following would happen.

1. Glirdan tries to kill Saucepan.
2. Cailín fights off Glirdan.
3. Wolves kill Glirdan.

I was hoping the wolves killed Glirdy that Night, as I'd have had fun writing the death scene.

Actually...

Glirdan looked around to make sure he wasn't going to be followed. He crept up to the house of the villager that he was hunting and drew his bow.

Just as he was about to shoot the villager, a masked figure dressed all in black lept from the roof and landed on him, knocking him to the ground.

"You!" shouted Glirdan. "This villager is a wolf! Get out of my way!"

The masked figure refused to move. "I'm not letting you kill an innocent tonight," said the Ranger.

As Glirdan stood wondering what to do next, three shadows bolted out of nowhere. Whether or not one of them had been the hunted/protected villager was impossible to tell. Glirdan tried to fire an arrow, but it all happened so fast. The wolves hauled the Hunter off into the woods, where they devoured him.

[Glirdan]

Ooooo!!!! How pleasently evil of you!! Now I wish they would have killed me that Night!! Btw Cailin, thanks for standing by while I get devoured!

Thank you Wolves for answering me. It makes complete sense now. Thank you!!

[Garin]

If only you had killed Malka that night. I find it interesting that you didn't suspect me as the seer. I wish that you had and things might have gone differently too.

Why would we think you were the seer Morm?
You seemed an Ordo from the beginning, as did Sauce. Once again I must applaud Malkatoj for her bravery. If The Guy and I had more time to discuss things.... the outcome would be so different.
I view this as such an awful defeat.
EDIT: Falls upon sword.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Here's Bethiril.

And here's Narvi.

Hehe, good times.

Oh, and a final note: This is the only game so far where I felt I was actually useful. Not exactly smart, but at least useful. Thanks, guys.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Garin

Why would we think you were the seer Morm?
You seemed an Ordo from the beginning, as did Sauce. Once again I must applaud Malkatoj for her bravery. If The Guy and I had more time to discuss things.... the outcome would be so different.
I view this as such an awful defeat.
EDIT: Falls upon sword.

I meant cobbler. But I guess I was thinking seer at the time because of Malka.

[Márcolië Lamen]

That was an interesting game despite me keep having problems playing. And thanks to the wolves for killing me, especially since it let malka stay alive and the villagers win. Its really surprising, but great to know that I actually was able to find wolves, and be thought to be the seer for it.

Great game all, and thanks all villagers for helping us to win.

[WaynetheGoblin]

i voted for my self so people would think i was the cobbler and not vote for me. It backfired.