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#481 |
Laconic Loreman
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What is all the gripe about here? As has been reminded several times I created this game, and others have followed with versions from other Tolkien works of their own. This is the Mirth forum, and I started this game exactly for that. In fact, Myself and the other survivor starters I think we are still gathering and planning for a Survivor All-star, which will be the last 15 or so contestants from each game.
Anway, here's a link to the original game, however this is Formendacil's game and I completely respect that he will do what's best. I didn't discount votes, I did change to non-retractable because it got so confusing to tally up the votes (luckily Glirdan helped me out). But this is a different game and I understand why it is needed to give explanations as to why you vote someone off, I think that it fits in more closely with the show on TV. Everyone has a reason to vote the way they do and if it's required to say why, then so be it. I will say Form, if you are going to do that, I think it would be best to lay out (which it seems you have done) what you are looking for. Also, if you don't count a vote inform that person (through PM or by whatever means) on why, so they don't continue to make the same mistake. Just some friendly suggestions. Sorry I haven't been participating as much in these last one's it's been kind of difficult, I just wanted to bring up the original thread and reinforce what's been said about this being intended for fun and enjoyment. From what I have seen and participated it seems like it's been going that way. I wish their were alliances in my game, each side pushing for their own candidate. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say, perhaps I'll pop in and vote again.
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#482 |
Laconic Loreman
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Oh one more thing....
Celuien in defense of Cirdan who had the forsight to see Gandalf as the only istari to stay true to his task is why he entrusted Gandalf with the Ring. The istari were sent to ME to help the Free peoples combat Sauron, Cirdan had the vision to see this and new his ring to light up people's hearts would come of much use to Gandalf. Without Cirdan and his ring would Gandalf be able to spark up the hearts of people? I don't think so. Though I do agree that Elrond should stay as far as right now, I ask you to reconsider your Cirdan vote. Elros is the guy everyone should be going after. He shied away from his Elven-heritage and formed the cursed kingdom of Numenor. He chose mortality because he couldn't face/handle living forever like his brother and his other kindred. He's the coward, not Cirdan.
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#483 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Hey, let's leave the Numenoreans alone, shall we? They have suffered enough so far and their tribe is already heavily depleted. The Second Age was, in many ways, the Age of Numenor, so it would seem only fair that at least one fo them should make the final.
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#484 | |
Laconic Loreman
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![]() Though you are making sense with Elrond I will say. Perhaps Earendil's entire family just needs wiped out. I mean let's think about it: Elrond, along with Gandalf was the main planner for The Fellowship and the destruction of the Ring. But other than that what does he do? Also, that's in the 3rd age. He's even so lazy he sends his sons to give messages, because he doesn't want to leave. Arwen, though beautiful, just a snobby little princess that is only the symbol of authority. She's like the Queen of England, rich, a nice title, but absolute no authority at all. Elladan and Elrohir are just Aragorn wannabees, tagging along with the other Dunedain. Now I know the last 3 aren't contestants, but it just shows the worthlessness of Earendil's descendants. The whole line needs to be wiped out (meaning Elros and Elrond).
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#485 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
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#486 |
Riveting Ribbiter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Assigned to Mordor
Posts: 1,767
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It was Elrond's skill as a healer that saved Frodo from becoming a wraith. No Frodo, no Fellowship, Sauron wins, end of story. Elrond useless? Hardly.
As for Cirdan, I'll admit he had wisdom in dealing with Gandalf. Wisdom to pass on a task he wasn't up to. ![]() Honestly, I might change my vote. My goal isn't to eliminate Cirdan as much as it is to save Elrond. But I agree that the Numenoreans have been hit too hard lately, so I won't be looking in their direction.
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#487 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
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![]() In any event, didn't Tolkien say somewhere that healing was primarily undertaken by the females of the Elven peoples? There we are. Irrefutable Tolkien-based proof that Elrond is, in fact, a cissy. ![]()
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#488 | |
Byronic Brand
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The 1590s
Posts: 2,778
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Incidentally, Arwen doesn't have a nice title. She most certainly isn't a princess. One of the most interesting things about Elrond is that he isn't King of Rivendell, or even often Lord. He usually sticks to Master...a title on about Sam's level. This shows a good dose of humility and plenty of wisdom, which Cirdan, also titleless, displays as well. Shall we contrast that with Sauron the Great, Lord of Tol-in-Gaurhoth, the Terrible One, The Eye, true King of Middle-earth, etc etc? By rewarding Sauron and punishing Elrond you are voting for insupportably large egos. If we must chase the sterile grail of tribal equality, though, I'm willing to compromise and lessen the Other Speakers. They're rather dark horses...well, trees...wouldn't want any of them to win by stealth...
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#489 | ||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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#490 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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Which I must say is another strike against Elrond. What's the junk about him only letting Arwen marry the King of Gondor? What the King of Rohan or say a Lord of a distant land isn't good enough for him? What's this him setting restrictions on who his daughter can and can't marry, that's Shakesperean era ![]() Quote:
++Elrond
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#491 | |
Byronic Brand
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The 1590s
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Since you all seem to be Dark Lord cuddlers: --SAURON, ++FIMBRETHIL The true example here of an emasculating wife...heartlessly abandoning her faithful spouse, leaving him in spasms of grief which he's still pouring into song an Age later. What irresponsibility she shows to te continuation of her kind! And what a bad example she sets to the other Entwives! She's far worse than Tar-Aldarion, but essentially guilty of the same sin...only she made it permanent. Send her off!
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#492 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
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#493 | ||
Riveting Ribbiter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Assigned to Mordor
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And are you implying, sir, that female-dominant skills are of lesser worth than those of males? For shame. That's no way to persuade me. ![]() Fimbrethil is looking like a good alternative...
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#494 |
Byronic Brand
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The 1590s
Posts: 2,778
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The ratings? Thank goodness you've remembered them, Saucie!
Why, when you were suggesting sending off the popular harp-player, romantic husband and peacemaker of the show, Elrond, foster-son, lest we forget, of the tormented celebrity former Survivor winner Maglor, I almost thought you must be neglecting the ratings...
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#495 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
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I was merely saying that in Middle-earth healing among Elvish communities tends to be a role undertaken by the females. As a healer, Elrond is therefore engaing in a primarily female role. Ergo, he is a cissy. ![]() He is the Middle-earth equivalent of a male nurse. ![]() (Disclaimer: These comments are made for game-purposes only. No offence to medical professionals, male female or otherwise, is intended and none should be taken.)
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#496 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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#497 |
Blithe Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,779
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Sorry, just popping in again. Can't resist...
In defence of Fimbrethil... Wights of the Barrowdowns - male and female both! Imagine. Being. Married. To. Fangorn. Enough to make anyone go postal. To Fimbrethil's credit she did not.
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#498 |
Byronic Brand
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The 1590s
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How about-
Imagine being an Ent-wife-that is, by necessity, having to marry an Ent, or not marry at all-being married to Fangorn-a relatively active and interesting Ent, in comparison to, say, Skinbark-and wandering callously off to leave him to an alcoholic Ent-draught decline. Shame, Fimbrethil, shame!
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#499 | |
Riveting Ribbiter
Join Date: May 2005
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![]() I sympathize with sterotype-defying trailblazers, which Elrond would be if your argument is correct. It takes courage and true leadership to take on such a role. More points for Elrond. --Cirdan ++FIMBRETHIL Indeed, Fimbrethil contributed nothing of note to Middle-earth history. As such, she doesn't deserve to be here. Besides, it was unfair to run out on Fangorn, who is a gem among Ents.
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#500 | ||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
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#501 |
Laconic Loreman
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And Elrond calls Rivendell the Last homely house west of the Misty Mountains...pah, what advertising baloney. It's just a ploy to rake in customers. To sum up Elrond is a cissy, lazy, control freak, and a scandalous corporate moneymaker.
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#502 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I dont know if this is Tolkien based but
++Elrond because as hearld to Gil-Galad, that makes him a kind of bodyguard. Being a hearld, he is to protect peace, and should have sacrificed him self infrnot of Sauron to give GG time to fall back, perhaps. ________ COLORADO MARIJUANA DISPENSARY Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:27 PM. |
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#503 | |||||||||
Beloved Shadow
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Also remember that without Elrond, there would be no Aragorn. The heirs of Isildur and their possesions were preserved in Rivendell throughout the years. And the only reason the Ring was able to escape the Nazgul was because of Elrond and his refuge in Rivendell, so don't dare criticize Elrond for taking the time to set up Rivendell. He was doing exactly what was necessary, possibly as a result of his powers of foresight. Also, remember how accepting Elrond was. Gimli had trouble getting into Lothlorien- dwarves didn't ever go there. In Elrond's house, however, Elves and Men and Dwarves and Hobbits were all welcome. A vote against Elrond is a vote for racism. Quote:
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By supporting Elrond, you will perhaps be encouraging me to curb my ego, and respect Elrond even more than I do. Quote:
When I look at the list of candidates, I only see maybe five who should be able to challenge Elrond. I think it's silly that he's a candidate this early. I don't see anyone else on the list that was the best healer in the world, the greatest loremaster in the world, protected the line of kings for an age, crafted the plan and Fellowship that would save the world from Sauron, and controlled a river to boot. Elrond is about the last person you should vote for.
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This thread is now important. Last edited by the phantom; 03-14-2006 at 02:16 PM. |
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#504 | |
Riveting Ribbiter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Assigned to Mordor
Posts: 1,767
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#505 | |||
Laconic Loreman
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#506 | |
Beloved Shadow
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#507 | |||
Beloved Shadow
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the phantom has posted.
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#508 |
Eidolon of a Took
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: my own private fantasy world
Posts: 3,460
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A count of the votes-so-far reveals:
Elrond: 3 Fimbrethil: 2 Tar-Miriel: 1 It distresses me to see a campaign mounting against not one but two females in the same day -- when already we have so few. I am a fan of Fimbrethil, little though there is to know about her. Clearly, though, she (and the other entwives) were independent women. It rather annoys me, actually, that their sex is defined by their relationship to the Ents. What, were there no single Ent-females? How would us human females feel if we were known exclusively as Manwives? No wonder they left their controlling husbands behind. As Lal so efficiently stated, imagine being married to Fangorn. Therefore I am stating that I will forthwith vote however I need to in order to keep Fimbrethil in the game for as long as possible. Form, I'm a little unclear on one point, I realize. Is it sufficiently Tolkien-reasoned to cast a vote for one charater to save another, if one's reasons for saving said other character are suffciently Tolkien-based? I.E., is sparing Fimbrethil enough excuse to vote against anyone else? Just in case it is not, I am going to express some opinion on the ongoing debate about Elrond. I find the points about him letting his sons do most of the work, and declaring who may marry his daughter (and when) to be rather convincing. I had actually forgotten about his dealings in the Arwen matter (clouded as they are by the movie version, I fear). One might say he was exceedingly kind to let Aragon marry Arwen at all -- but I say piffles. Arwen was not a child and therefore he had no right to say anything about whoever and whenever she chose to marry. That's just more males controlling the females, and like Fimbrethil, I say I can do without, thankyouverymuch. And then of course there are the tra la la lally's down in the valley. ![]() I cast a vote for Elendil earlier, being confused about who had been evicted. Since he's not even a contestant anymore maybe I don't need to do this, but just for clarity's sake: - - Elendil + + Elrond
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All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression. Last edited by Diamond18; 03-14-2006 at 03:12 PM. Reason: spelling, tags, the usual |
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#509 |
Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,547
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++Elrond
For such a major character, he really is not as complex as he could be. Everything just sort of happens to him; the only place where he seems to actually take real iniative in something is in founding Rivendell. He's something of a dud among his family. Let's compare: Earendil - duh... Elwing - same category. Shouldn't a son of these parents be destined for absolute greatness? Children: Arwen - may not do much, but page for page she is a heck of a lot more interesting and developed that Elrond. Elladan and Elrohir - don't have much of a chance to do much, but do what they can - avenge Celebrian's death (what does Elrond do? sit around and mourn), ride to war (again, what does Elrond do? sit around). And, as has already been said, he sure doesn't do much in the Last Alliance. The one time he had a real opportunity to make a difference was when Isildur takes the Ring - but Elrond doesn't do a very good job of persuading him otherwise. Elrond seems to be a prime example of wasted potential. Edit: hm, I never saw this whole last page... |
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#510 |
Blithe Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,779
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I choose
++ELROND Why? Sure, he's a nice guy. I throughly approve of the multi-cultural refuge, it's a great idea, but I'm sure someone else can take over the room bookings and the ring and so on if he goes. My reasons: 1. A strategic vote (which I hope is admissable grounds) to save Fimbrethil, whose marital plight deserves some sympathy. I'm not saying Fangorn doesn't have some excellent points, but as a spouse he would drive you bonkers. And if she goes, we will never, never know what really did happen to the Entwives. 2. Because it would be so nice for brother Elros to outlast Elrond in Survivor, as quite the reverse happened in Real Middle Earth...
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#511 | |
Byronic Brand
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The 1590s
Posts: 2,778
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As for the Manwives point-a simple matter of etymology. "Wife" means, at root, "woman". It is only culture that has given it its sense of "man's woman". There could very well have been single Ent-wives.
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#512 | ||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
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I cannot fault much of your reasoning, phantom. It is a fair and accurate description of Elrond, based upon the material handed down to us. But it must be bore in mind that such material was produced by those with a vested interest in painting him in a good light: Bilbo, who was provided with free board and lodging at Rivendell in return for a favourable review, and Frodo, who bought his passage to the Undying Lands from Elrond's daughter in return for the same.
And, in any event, fair and accurate, like Elrond, is dull, particularly in a contest such as this. Much more interesting and satisfying to be - ah - inventive with the given facts. ![]() So, down with Elrond, the lazy, cowardly, cissy, hippy, neglectful parent. ![]() And there is one point on which I must take issue with you: Quote:
Rivendell, the Country Club of Middle-earth. ![]() Quote:
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#513 | |
Beloved Shadow
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![]() I doubt Elrond will be saved today, but I'll try anyway. + + Fimbrethil What did she do besides ditch her husband and keep a garden? That's not much compared to Elrond. And Fimbrethil and her friends likely got whacked by Sauron, while Elrond on the other hand, he helped make the plans and aided the people who whacked Sauron. The choice between Elrond and Fimbrethil seems clear to me.
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#514 |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
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It has come to my attention that this infamous Fimbrethil had the nickname of "Wandlimb". This nickname, according to certain sources at my disposal, was apparently quite apt. She was in the business of selling her own limbs as magical! Now, Ents may be quite fascinating creatures, but this "magical" business is obviously spurious. So not only does she leave Treebeard high and dry, she also trades of her own person for profit and that with a falsehood. Most disgraceful.
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#515 | |
Eidolon of a Took
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: my own private fantasy world
Posts: 3,460
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As for those who declaim ol' Fimby for leaving her husband -- why is this all her fault and not Treebeard's? Sure, he is pining for her now but who says he rightly appreciated her then? How long did it take for him to actually miss her? After all, the mass departure of the Entwives suggests something of a lack of caring on the Ents' parts. Fangorn, Fangorn, water-drinker, had a wife and couldn't keep her.... (Okay, I'll stop with the badly rewritten rhymes now. *shudder*) Anyway, since Tolkien leaves much to the imagination as far as the Entish domestic dispute goes, it's all a matter of viewpoint whether Fimbrethil et al's defection was a failure of the sexes to co-exist or the devilsh devices of those evil female types. Obviously, I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt and the sympathy of the fellow sex, and believe the Entwives had completely justifiable reasons for being disatisfied with their husbands. Or, at the very least, their husbands just didn't care enough at the time to actually go after them. Whether or not this stand is true feminism doesn't mean anything to me, as I've never cared much for such labels.
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All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression. Last edited by Diamond18; 03-14-2006 at 10:15 PM. |
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#516 |
Wight
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: dor-lomin, of course
Posts: 167
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Hmm...who to pick, who to pick?
On one hand, a wise, powerful, kind, and humble elf lord. On the other hand, a walking tree best known for choosing gardening over her lover. Tough decision. + + Fimbrethil
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#517 |
La Belle Dame sans Merci
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Fimbrethil is really too stupid to be allowed to stick around. As evidence, she chose an idiotic spot for her gardens- too close to Mordor. If she had any brain at all she'd have had the sense to move someplace safer once Sauron grew strong. I rather expect that she was purposefully putting herself in harm's way in order to lure Treebeard and the other ents out of their woods. If we get rid of Fimbrethil, it will allow Treebeard to give his full attention to winning the game.
++Fimbrethil
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#518 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: the captain's chair
Posts: 42
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Wow! This looks like a pretty fun game. Lots of funny stuff from people.
![]() The choice between Elrond and Fimbrethil seems pretty clear cut to me, though. Just look at the way they felt about their significant other. Elrond- He did everything he could to heal his wife so she could stay with him in Middle Earth. Unfortunately for him, it didn't work out. Fimbrethil- She just picked up and left her mate, and never came back. Honestly, how cold is that? Then again, what do you expect from an overgrown stick? ++Fimbrethil
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#519 |
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,538
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I don't really have it in mind to have Elrond win this season of Survivor, but I'm already convinced that he should stay longer than most contestants.
Like Fimbrethil, for example. How stupid of her to leave Fangorn hanging. And this is the über-lovable Treebeard we're talking about! He certainly does not deserve her, so it's a good thing she left after all. Besides, I can hardly resist a chance to irk the great Wolfman Sauce. ![]() ++FIMBRETHIL |
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Dead Serious
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First off, a bit of housekeeping…
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Thanks for asking, as I don’t think that particular point has been clarified. Now, on to the counting of the votes: Quote:
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However, LMP is admitted anyway on the “abandonment of Treeebeard” plea. COUNTED. Quote:
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Okay, toDay is now over. Any votes posted from this point on will be counted towards tomorrow’s tally.
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