Treachery of Men Discussion/Planning Thread

[Celuien]

Sorry, everyone. I've had some issues come up this week that have kept me away from writing.

I'll get back to this as soon as I can (early next week).

[Folwren]

Save filled. And shortly, I'm off for another week at camp. So, I'll see you next Friday. Have fun!

-- Folwren

[Nogrod]

"Long time no sea!" as Kath's signature says...

I try to read myself up to date this weekend and if not earlier then after the Midsummer eve's party I will be joining again with full effort...

I have not forgotten this game. It's just that the RL keeps running over...

[Celuien]

Folwren - I've borrowed Ulwarth in my post to fix a continuity issue. Ulfast had to get to the letter, but was still talking to Dag when it was picked up, so I had Ulwarth find it. Please let me know if I need to change anything.

My internet issue still isn't resolved (see signature), but I hope it will be soon. Moving is such a hassle.

[Anguirel]

Have just finished my A Levels. That's all fine, I think.

However, I am still in deep trouble from all of you. There's no way I will be able to make this game work over this summer, or even be at all regularly on the Downs.

It's clealy a game that needs prodding and motivation. A high-maintenance game. I can't provide such maintenance. My mother's health has meant she's going to have to move to a flat in London. I thus lose my main Downery ( among the most trivial, I admit, of my various concerns on this point...) I will soon be starting, God willing, at Oxford...I have a hectic summer ahead, and a nomadic one...argh.

All this still sounds feeble. I'd love someone to leap into the breach and save this game, but somehow I don't see this as likely.

I feel pathetic for letting down Pio like this. But I really can't see what else I can do.

Please e-mail me at minocher@hotmail.co.uk if you want to stay in touch.

[Folwren]

Anguirel,

I'm very sorry about your mother's health problems. I hope she gets well soon.

I hope to see you around the Downs frequently again sometime.

-- Folwren

[Durelin]

Ang,

Please do NOT blame yourself in any way!

First off, this is just a game and for fun. Secondly, it is not all your 'fault' that the game has been moving so slowly. You have lost so many people who have actually dropped out, and then others have been very busy in general. The various factions were supposed to be able to work alone when they could not interact together, but there are not really any Ulfings left, and even the Borrim's numbers have dropped very low indeed.

At any rate...it's not just that games need guidance (some more than others, yes) by any means (and really that they 'need' it is debatable in my opinion... ).

I do not not not want to see this game just close, but I do not know who else is able to continue it.

Both you and your mother will be in my prayers -- I hope her health improves, and I hope your life will settle down soon, as much as it can. I also wish you much luck at Oxford!

No worries here, just take care of yourself!

-Durelin

[Folwren]

I have written Pio, telling her I'd be willing to continue the game for Anguirel. I won't do as good a job, to be sure, but I'll do my best. I will do my utmost to leap in the breach, as Anguirel says, but whether or not I'll save the game - well, that remains to be seen.

First off - I hope Anguirel takes no offence, but I am going to try to talk someone into taking Anguirel's character, Lachrandir. Gausen and Drenda, I believe, can both be carried as necessary, but if I can find someone willing to play their parts, I willl certainly not turn the player down.

Second off - let's finish this banquet night. I have until Thursday and then I'm off for camp again. I have two and a half weeks of camp left and then, a little while later (I don't know what date), we're leaving for vacation. During vacation, while we're staying at my brother's home, I should have internet access. If I do not have access there, the latest I'll be back with force on the BD again is early August, I think.

In August, when school starts, I may begin tutoring some students. That should not cut into time spent on these games too much. I can't imagine having more than a few hours work a day anyway...

So, my job now is to find someone to play Anguirel's parts. I'm so, so, so sorry to replace someone, though. *sniff* It seems so sad and somehow...low and unfair. Oh well.

Give me any ideas or opinions, everyone....

-- Folwren

[Lalaith]

Warm thoughts to you, Ang, and I hope your summer turns out to be a happy as well as a hectic one.
Congratulations on your A levels - I don't think that is premature, somehow...and as you say yourself, let Treachery be the least of your concerns.


I apologise for my own crapness, and will post as Embla later today, liberating poor Durelin from the field where she has been standing all these weeks.

[Mithalwen]

I feel so guilty for neglecting this .. but I will do what I can to help ..time for Tathren to step up I think. It won't be anything like up to Ang's standard but I can move things along even witha Page's eye view as necessary and now some of my personal issues have been resolved (alas a parent going "on the blink" is something I can identify and sympathise with), I should be able to concentrate more..

[Child of the 7th Age]

Ang,

I hope things work out with you and your mom. My own schedule has been crazy this summer for similar reasons. I am trying to help my mom find a new place to live because of advancing age and up and down health. She's in another state and I am trying to handle all her business long distance, which is a juggling act.

I don't want to see this game crater. Folwren - My schedule is a bit strange going in and out of town in July and August, but I will definitely do what I can to help.

[Anguirel]

Everyone,

I can't say how happy and thankful I am that you're rallying round so thoroughly, and that you don't seem to think I've let you down much.

I too would love to see this game somehow survive and will struggle to post a bit while I can. I'm willing to play Caranthir if and when he's needed at the end, to keep on with Gausen and Drenda a bit...but Lachrandir...that's a hard proposition for me. I just can't be around regularly.

Maybe we could kill him off, eg in a hunting accident, leaving negotiations in the hands of the inexperienced Tathren? Drastic and Mith would have to agree.

Thanks again so much - I was expecting a way more condemnatory and scary reaction.

[Anguirel]

Oh yeah, was so relieved didn't read Folwren's post properly. You can have Lachy, m'dear, with my best wishes. I'd like to maintain my Ulfings for the present, though. I will say if I'm sinking still further into inactivity.

You're all wonderful. Kiss kiss.

[Folwren]

Were you honestly, trully expecting us to be that angry? Shame, Anguirel - we're your friends, not judges!

I sincerely hope that all goes very well for you, in school and with your mother.

I'd rather not see Lachrandir die. I've asked Elempi (hope you don't mind) if he would play the elf for you. Elempi said that he will look at the game and think about it. It will be a while until he gives me an answer, though, due to his busy scehdule.

-- Folwren

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Oh yeah, was so relieved didn't read Folwren's post properly. You can have Lachy, m'dear, with my best wishes. I'd like to maintain my Ulfings for the present, though. I will say if I'm sinking still further into inactivity.

You're all wonderful. Kiss kiss.

Excellent! But mind yourself, fellow! I've no desire to be kissed by anyone but my husband.

[Mithalwen]

Oh blimey I wasn't expecting Tathren to actually negotiate himself - they would make mincemeat of the hapless youngling - more give observers account of what his master was up to... and for me generally to devote more time to this.

Of course far more satisfactory if Lachrandir can be played properly . If Elempi can't or won't maybe Aman might be approached - she may have more time post A-Levels or Envinyatar or Formendacil?

Ang .... We will miss your writing but you are dealing with things out of your control why should we condemn.... must be horrible to have so much upheaval at once. Just do what you have to do and get back to us when you can.

And I'll have Folwren's kiss Well as Galadriel briefly to Ang's Celeborn, it is my right ..if one is taking it so seriously ( what kind of kiss are you imagining, Foley?!!) a kiss is just a kiss....

*mwa mwa mwa* (bisoux)

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

And I'll have Folwren's kiss Well as Galadriel briefly to Ang's Celeborn, it is my right ..if one is taking it so seriously ( what kind of kiss are you imagining, Foley?!!) a kiss is just a kiss....

*mwa mwa mwa* (bisoux)

Any sort of kiss, from a gentleman, would not be acceptable to me. Save maybe one on the hand. However, I doubt that's what you or Ang had in mind.

But what would you care for my kiss? Unless I am sadly mistaken (and unless I have remained sadly mistaken for a very long time), you are a girl, aren't you?

---

Ahem...back on track. Yes. Uldor would most certainly make very small mincemeat of your young, inexperienced Tathren if he had to carry on with Lachrandir.

Has Aman been around very much lately? I have not seen her. I think any of those that you mentioned would be fine. My only fears would be their lack of posting, for I don't know if any of them are around often. I could be mistaken, though. Let's wait to see if Elempi can do it.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Any sort of kiss, from a gentleman, would not be acceptable to me. Save maybe one on the hand. However, I doubt that's what you or Ang had in mind.

But what would you care for my kiss? Unless I am sadly mistaken (and unless I have remained sadly mistaken for a very long time), you are a girl, aren't you?


-- Folwren

Really Folwren, shame on you. For someone who generally seems to try to see the best in people you have managed to put the most unpleasant spin on something quite sweet and innocent. I also strongly advise you never to visit France where bisous

http://french.about.com/library/weekly/aa051801f.htm

is a part of social interraction. Having lived there for two years I have kissed both genders regardless of their marital status or indeed sexual orientation and do not regard it as a stain on my character. I have not yet met the handsome prince but I have certainly kissed a lot of Frogs!!

Once I got over the "In England we shake hands froideur" and the anxiety over which side to start and when to stop (the proper number depends on region) I found this warmer gesture rather delightful. And in my book it is the mark of a gentleman that he removes his spectacles first. A hand kiss can be enchanting if done properly with a bow a click of the heels and the merest suggestion of contact... http://sprezzatura.editthispage.com/kiss , although strictly speaking this like tiaras are the preserve of married woman. The film style hand kiss that is more of an arm lick is deeply sleazy.

Even in my reserved homeland a kiss is a usual greeting among some of my friends and family, often a single kiss combined with a half hug - not the mwah mwah air kiss of more pretentious circles. And with others a kiss is a common expression of hard to express emotions ..... kisses will be exchanged at weddings, births, deaths, sickbeds, on receiving presents, even with those with whom it is not a routine greeting. A world without these signs of affection, appreciation, comfort, condolence or congratulation would be colder and bleaker.

Of such a genre I took Ang's kisses to be and the kiss I claimed was the one of his you rejected... I did not wish for one from you personally and given that I am just about old enough to be his mother it would be inapropriate and rather sordid to claim anything other than a social kiss from him. I have the greatest affection for Anguirel.. but really.. the Galadriel / Celeborn thing was a jest , not a statement of cradle-snatching intent.

As for my suggestions for alternatives should LMP be unavailable, they may well be busy with other things but the fact that both are primarily RPG posters but not currently involved with RPGs gave the possibility that non-posting generally didn't automatically mean they were too busy..if that at least makes sense...

[Folwren]

I am most apologetic, then. I did not mean to imply any such thing as what you think I meant to imply.

Thank you. I have no intention of visiting France.

You're pardoned, of course, for what you said (as is Anguirel). I took no offense by anything, you do understand I hope. I was just...extracting myself from being included in the formatilites.

I'm all confused when I shoudln't be. Oh well.

Yes, your final paragraph made sense, about players being busy or not.

-- Folwren

[Child of the 7th Age]

My suggestion would be to wait for a response from Imp and cross our fingers. I'd love to see Aman or one of the others involved. However, Aman hasn't participated in an RPG for a year and a half and was unable to continue as the Green Dragon Innkeeper because of constraints of time. Envinyatar's last involvement was nine months ago when he posted in the Golden Perch. So, although there's always a possibility, I don't think we can count on these two at least.

There is another complication to throw into the pot. I've hesitated to say this publicly, since it was intended to be a mysterious plot twist. However, with the problems with posters we're now encountering, I thought others should be aware. According to our original planning for this game (plans made with Ang, Durelin, and Lalaith), my character is not long for this world () and is shortly expected to hit the dust. I was then supposed to pull out of the game. This early demise was connectd with the whole theme of "spying" that's been introduced at the Borim banquet. While there's been no specific time set for this event, I was thinking in terms of the hunt, which should come up shortly.

I would not want to scrap this idea since everything Khandr's done in this story has been leading up to this. But it does give us one less character and one less poster (namely me!) unless I scramble over to handle someone/something else. Are there other people needed beyond the head Elf?

[Folwren]

I'm fairly sure you could kill Khandr, as you're planning, and then play another part. I would hate to lose another gamer, though, so I would love it if you could somehow stay in the game, even if you had a different character.

Anguirel wants to still play Drendan and Gausen. His only other character was Lachrandir, who I'm hoping Elempi will play. So, there's none of Anguirel's characters that you need to take up. Lots of other characters were developed and then never used by other players. You could probably take any of them.

But I would be equally happy if you just came up with a new character of your own, if you so wished it.

I do hope you'll stay in the game.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Folwren

I am most apologetic, then. I did not mean to imply any such thing as what you think I meant to imply.

Thank you. I have no intention of visiting France.

You're pardoned, of course, for what you said (as is Anguirel). I took no offense by anything, you do understand I hope. I was just...extracting myself from being included in the formatilites.

I'm all confused when I shoudln't be. Oh well.
-- Folwren

Well I have to say I found what you actually said rather offensive even if that was not your intent.

But then I do not see anything that needs pardoning in my own words.

I am really not sure I want to be here anymore.

[Folwren]

.........

I totally thought you were joking the entire time.

I am very sorry.

EDIT: In all honesty, without the least shred of ill will - What did I say wrong? I don't understand. All I said was that I didn't want to be kissed until married, wasn't it? I can accept being rebuked when I put my foot in my mouth and I ought to know better - but I can't see it here.

-- Folwren

[Nogrod]

All the best for you Ang and I hope to see you back one day or another!


I should probably think all these news before I write anything... but I know myself and will come straight into it.

I've had a lot of things going on as well but the main reason why I have been especially away from this one is due to the structure of this game. Having a lot of characters and the action kind of concentrating on certain parts of the plot it's pretty hard to play a character who although is a major character (by writing standards) is clearly a minor character in the storyline. So there is not much more than "X walked around and thought of this and that" - kind of posts to be made as such a nobody can't actually refigure the plot which seems quite well planned ahead.

Maybe that's what some others have felt as well?

But if the story is moving forwards and we come to the hunting fex. I'm ready and willing to join in again. It's just that there is very little meningful posting to be done for a Borrim hunter who knows hardly anyone in the town right now - and whose writer is unsure who of the other writers are actually present waiting for something to do or just totally away.

But I do hope that this would move forwards...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Folwren

In all honesty, without the least shred of ill will - What did I say wrong? I don't understand. All I said was that I didn't want to be kissed until married, wasn't it?

Cultural and/or ideological differences. But I must say that most of the world - I'd like to say all the world - does look at some religious minorities way of thinking a kiss to be something like a tabu quite ridiculous. I mean Jesus kissed his disciples and friends like everyone in the Middle-East do and have done since the time immemorial...

[Folwren]

Yes, perhaps my personal ideas and my family's ideas of what a kiss means are different from everyone else's, but what in heaven's name is insulting or offending about that?

A kiss, simple and modest, from a girl to a girl is a lovely thing, for, say, when friends meet or part. But between a boy and a girl, regardless of how modest and pure it may appear, is in no way acceptable to me or my parents. Not in America in this day and age anyway. Hugs are questionable enough!

-- Folwren

[Nogrod]

We all have our ways and that's fair enough. Everyone has a right to think what one wishes - at least in these parts of the world.

But maybe it was the way you answered Mith (and Ang) in the first place? As a second-language speaker I'm not the one to make strong judgements about tone and such matters. But maybe it was a bit... challenging or assertive... or even arrogant?

But maybe you two should PM that thing over as I just came to think that this possibly isn't the right forum for this discussion in the first place. At least I promise to end it right here.

(Feel free to PM me as well if you wish)

[Child of the 7th Age]

I usually tread lightly but I am stepping in here as the RPG moderator. We need to get beyond this and back to the game.

Since so much has been expressed publicly, I feel compelled to say just one thing. Reading over this exchange, starting from the first post, I don't think that anyone on either side meant to hurt each other or was initially angry. However, it's very hard to deal with questions like this on the written page. We can't see the person's expression or body language so it's easy for there to be misunderstandings. There are no "right or wrong" answers in this situation. These are simply cultural and religious questions where people hold different views. Hopefully, that's where this will end up -- respecting the fact that this is a diverse community with many different beliefs and opinions represented.

Also, most importantly both for now and in the future, we've gone a bit off line in terms of what should be dealt with on an RPG discussion thread. Normally, misunderstandings like these, that are not directly related to the game or plot, should be worked out by p.m. (as Nogrod also suggested). If you find yourself at a roadblock, feel free to include Pio or myself in these pm discussions as mods.

I am keeping this thread open but if things get uncomfortable, I'll lock it temporarily just to give us a breather.

And now back to your regularly scheduled broadcast.....

Edit...crossposted with Nogrod.....

[Lalaith]

Right. Poor old Jord is now finally free of the wretched Embla, who is scurrying back to camp. Anyone who wants to can accost her, otherwise she will just bide her time until Jord tries to corrupt her again into colluding with the murder.

[littlemanpoet]

Hello everyone. I've been asked to do my humble best to fill the rather daunting shoes of Anguirel's Lachrandir. I'm willing. In fact, I've been interested in for some time now to write for just such a character.

I'm reading through the rpg which turns out to be a most interesting read. Very good stuff here! I hope I can meld into it well. Bear with me as I catch up.

[littlemanpoet]

I've read the entirety of the rpg itself.

All of this story action in one day.

I don't think I can write Lachrandir quite the way Anguirel did. I can recount a few instances in which I told myself that I would have handled the Elf differently, due to the way I see such a character, a noble of the House of Fëanor, absolutely certain how far beneath himself, and even Tathren, all these bow-legged Men are, even Ulfang.

By the way, where is Ulfang as of this feast?

The way I see it, Lachrandir is going to want an answer to Caranthir's demand quite soon, and he's going to want it from whoever is really in charge, and he's going to want to know just who that is.

And the way I understand such an Elf, he's going to expect to be served rather than have to go looking for this or that lowly personage. I'm talking arrogance. Perhaps I can carry Ang's style through the evening, and have Lachrandir wake up in the morning and think how churlish and beneath his dignity he had acted on the previous day..... just a thought....

This is two months before the battle, right? How much time is the mustering and marching expected to take? In other words, how many days are Lachrandir and Tathren expected to 'suffer' being amongst the Ulfings?

I admit that I have only read the first couple of pages of the planning thread, so If there's a discussion/planning post that already covers this, please let me know.

And I've seen that Tora's father's name has been "Torguar" for the last couple of pages, but started out as "Birna". "Torguar" seems more fitting with the "Tor" prefix.

One other thing. I've noticed a bunch of "saved" posts with nothing substantial in them littered throughout the rpg.

Oh, I've also prepared a chart to help me keep track of all the characters. I'll link it as soon as I figure out how, because it's too big to attach to this post.

[Folwren]

Elempi, impressive work - reading the entire thing. Glad you got through it so admirably quick.

As for Lachrandir's character - I'm inclined to say, work him however you think best, so long as it matches somewhat to his character description. However, I may be wrong. I believe, though, that when you take a character like this from another player (sad as that is), he's now yours. You can verify it with Pio, though, if you really want to.

--

Captain of Despair, where is Brodda at the moment? Is he going to find Jord, as Uldor wished him to? Let me know, please.

--

Everyone, I'll be here tomorrow, but Tuesday, early morning, I'm headed for camp and will not be back until Friday afternoon.

-- Folwren

[Child of the 7th Age]

One other thing. I've noticed a bunch of "saved" posts with nothing substantial in them littered throughout the rpg.

I am fairly certain this is a system glitch that occurred with the upgrade to the new system. I've noticed this same problem in other areas of the rpg forums: old deletions have been resurrected and come to life. I will try and go through and delete these again.

[piosenniel]

Child

Did you delete them? Because I see no posts to be deleted and no other 'soft-deleted' post other than lmp's last one.

~*~ Pio

[Child of the 7th Age]

Pio,

I was just going to ask you the same thing. I just finished eyeballing the five pages of the game and can only see Littlemanpoet's soft deletion at the end.

BTW, have you figured out how to do a hard deletion yet?

[piosenniel]

No - we don't have that option. I'll bug Undy about it.

~*~ Pio

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks. I'll send a note to Imp to ask him about the number of some of those save/posts....

[littlemanpoet]

It must have been an upgrade glitch; they're all gone now.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

It must have been an upgrade glitch; they're all gone now.

I managed to delete one of my own from another thread as it had suddenly appeared - and I could swear I had deleted it some two months ago...

But happily no problem, it seems?

I try to reach up with this one as well, but for the time being there seems not to be a lot to write for a Borrim follower of Khandr who's not allowed anyplace of importance and who has kind of written quite a many posts about wandering around the town by himself already... not to say that the other Borrim's haven't been seen for a long time to go on socialising with them an option by just posting... This is a realistic RPG where people whose characters are outsiders so easily feel themselves outsiders as well...

But if there is someone who would be active this week or the next (RL) and whose character has nothing to do in particular & would like to meet a Borrim retainer, then feel free to PM me and I'd come forwards with Fastarr eagerly...

[Folwren]

Excellent, Nogrod. I'm so happy you're ready and willing to continue playing. I understand the difficulty, though... Hopefully, we'll be able to finish the banquet night sometime in the near future. Unfortunately for you and others who's characters are not at the feast, there are a few little plans still to be played out.

Don't worry. Soon, we will have the hunt moving forward and you'll be able to take part in that.

-- Folwren