T-I-G LV Sing when you're winning

[Mithalwen]

This is most intriguing...sorry to have ot leave you to your own devices but I think I am getting hypothermia...

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Allow me to point out that you based your charge on opinion, which hardly constitutes guilt.

Well yes, I based it on opinion. A lot that occurs in WW is based on opinion, since there usually little evidence to go on. In my opinion, your behaviour was suspicious, therefore I voted you.

But anyway, with all that's happened since my vote, you're not exactly at the top of my concerns anymore.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I don't find that interesting at all. It's quite common for the seer to appear wolfish and they often do receive some suspicion. He looked suspicious to me at the time, so why shouldn't I have suspected him?

Oh makes sense. I seem to remember from somewhere in the thread the talk about Seers looking like Cobblers to. Plus possibly Seer-cobblers.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Mac

Aganzir's analysis is tricksy. If she and Fea are in cahoots, she decided to let Fea go down and save herself.

Hmm I suspected her already yesterday. And tgwbs. I was rather positive there was something odd going on around them but I wasn't sure on whose part.

Originally Posted by Lari

As to why I thought Agan was the seer, it was a little comment from the first page actually: "Don't worry Gwath, thus far phantom is the only one who assumes he was dreamt of."

I don't mind looking a bit seerish every now and then if it means the wolves might come after me rather than the real seer.

Fea uses the word follow rather much.

Originally Posted by Brinn

but if he dreamt of both, maybe he found Fea to be a critic and Aganzir to be the cobbler, which could be why he made Fea his primary target.

I don't think that would make sense. If I was the seer and dreamed of the cobbler, I'd rather try to get her/him killed first as s/he is more dangerous with her/his ability to reveal roles to the critics.

Originally Posted by phantom

Fea dear, if it was likely you were a Critic, I would actually try and save you. That way the Lovers would have a Critic target to take a shot at.

Save her until one of the lovers dies?

I'll do now what I was supposed to do yesterday and go through Mac's posts.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Agan

Save her until one of the lovers dies?

Yes, if we figured she is a Critic.

But as Walter seems just as likely (or more likely), I would action is the order of the day.

A question to Fea- you pretty much know you're dead. So, would you like to die alone, or do you think Agan should die with you, as someone suggested earlier? I'd just like to know.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Because I realised it only after I saw your post. Earlier I had just thought, 'ok, he suspects us both,' but I had paid no attention to the fact that he seemed to suspect us equally until you said it aloud.

I'm not buying that, I'm afraid. It would have been a sloppy analysis if it paid no attention to this fact, but the rest of your analysis was not sloppy at all, so I suspect intent.

On Aganzir suspecting Fea before: It could be (and is likely, I'd say) that Fea is the cobbler and Aganzir a critic, so that does not prove the innocence of either. Not to mention the critic-on-critic possibility.

Originally Posted by Boro

Not to be arrogant Mac, but I know how to use seer lingo, it is never the seer's intent to leave confusing statements. Now that happens, but seers don't purposefully set out to confuse.

Did I say tgwbs was jumping out everywhere shouting wolf! wolf! wolf! No, but if he did he would lead clues to the wolf, not make statements that he doesn't know who any are.

A seer is, of course, in the dilemma to leave his knowledge behind should he die, but if he does it too obviously, he'll die quicker than he desires. While seers don't wish to confuse (though tp suggested earlier that it is at least possible that tgwbs did), they need to obscure their knowledge to the point that it is only decipherable to anybody once his role is known.

Anyway, I was just irritated by your first analysis which suggested that Fea is not evil at all. There is evidence that Fea is the cobbler, there is evidence that Fea is a critic. Only her death will show.

Originally Posted by Fea

Of course there's no astonishment, sweetheart. Even if I felt it, do you really think I'd type it? Who would believe me if I showed up the day after the seer had been killed, the very seer who'd been regularly trying to get me lynched, and said sweetly, batting my eyelashes, "Oh my, oh dear dear dear, who could have done such a thing?" Nobody would believe me, they'd assume I was a lying devious little thing.

Given the evidence against you, a genuine statement of innocence and surprise would probably have been the only thing that could have saved you. Now only a miracle could.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I certainly wouldn't be willing to bet a double lynch on it...especially since we can't even be 100% sure about Fea's guilt.

How could the seer have made it clearer that he wanted Fea lynched? (We should all go to England and beat some sense into him if he only made is believe he dreamt of Fea. ) The question is, do we just lynch Fea, or do we take the chance and get more than just one baddie?

Of course, scheduling a double lynching will be tough, since we have two people willing to derail it in the last minute.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

So, would you like to die alone, or do you think Agan should die with you, as someone suggested earlier? I'd just like to know.

I would like to take a critic out with me, if I must die, but if there is no certainty, than darling, I prefer to die alone.

Originally Posted by Mac

How could the seer have made it clearer that he wanted Fea lynched?

The question isn't whether or not he wanted me lynched, it's whether or not he dreamed of me. Which I say he did not.

[Aganzir]

Sorry it seems you're not going to get a Mac analysis yet. The minute I was about to start working on it an msn window popped open, and I've been chatting with half the players ever since, and it's almost 4am now.

The worst thing is, I'm not sure if I have time for it tomorrow either as I'm going to get home only two hours before deadline. Sorry for being this useless.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Legate is never this under-the-radar unless he's hiding something.

++Legate

[Aganzir]

Okay so in lack of any serious suspects I'd rather get rid of the dead weight.

++Legate

He hasn't shown up at all which is rather untypical of him.

edit: xed with Shasta

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

So what's concerning me most about this game is Legate's conspicuous absence.

This cannot be allowed to continue.

++Legate

[Kath]

You know who I'm most worried about? Legate. I didn't even realise til now but he's not posted once! That is most suspicious. Therefore:

++LEGATE

[Brinniel]

You know, all this focus is on Fea is unhealthy. Meanwhile, I can't help but wonder where Legate is. It's not normal for him to be so quiet. He's gotta be up to something.

Which is why I'm voting:

++Legate

EDIT: X-ed posted with a bunch. Apparently they're thinking the same thing...

[satansaloser2005]

K, I was looking through the voting records and I noticed something. Legate hasn't voted once. Or even posted, for that matter. I mean, I don't mind submarines, but this is ridiculous. I bet he's working for the baddies in some way and is too chicken to show his face for fear he'll trip up and give himself away.

So....


++Legate


edit: x'd. oh my giddy AUNT that is x'd.

[Lariren Shadow]

Seeing all of the evidence against Legate. I have to this:

++Legate

With all of the no voting and such.

[the phantom]

What are you talking about? Legate is about the most trustworthy person here.

++Legate for Rep

[satansaloser2005]

(Disclaimer: Yes, I know, I'm rubbish at song lyrics. And I whipped this out mighty quick, so bear with me.)

I could sniff out all the critics if I wasn't so narcissistic
Consultin' with the mod.
And my head I'd be scratchin' while
my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a bod.

I'd unravel every riddle for any individ'le,
With the itch to lynch.
With the baddies I'd be floggin'
I could be another Noggin
If I only had a bod.

Oh, I could tell you why tgwbs refused to use syntax.
I could think of things even Fea couldn't uncode.
And then I'd sit, and BS some more.

I would not be just a nothin' my head all full of stuffin'
My heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be a ding-a-derry,
If I only had a brain.


Aka dead men vote no reps.

[Macalaure]

Errr...

I demand a mass-modfire!!

[Boromir88]

Anyway, I was just irritated by your first analysis which suggested that Fea is not evil at all.~Mac

Understandable, I clicked on his post count and was going down post-by-post from Day 1, which the language didn't make it seem like he found a critic on Night 1. But there is no doubt that if on Night 1 he wasn't confident about Fea, than Night 2 he knew for certain, which I didn't get to yet. I wasn't considering the cobbler possibility until I read the other analysis posts, which all came out simultaneously it seemed.

That is when all the talk of Fea being tricksy and particularly his vote "She may not be critic, but she deserves it" made the most sense. I was looking solely at the critic possibility, and on Night 1 it just doesn't sound like he found a critic, but he possibly spotted Walter. Or in the very least, Fea thought tgwbs dreamt her Night 1, so checked him out the next night and then the info was dropped to the wolves. I hadn't gotten to tgwbs Day 2 posts, which I will do now.

At least, now that the Cardinalss of seemingly run away with it in their game.

[Boromir88]

As if. I wasn't asking you to take a bullet for me, I was asking you to give one. At an opportunely vindictive moment.~Fea

If I thought you were worth it, I'd still be more than glad to take the noose for you. I recall attempting that not too long ago, because I was far too big of a distraction towards the end, but that didn't work out. I made the attempt though, and if I thought you were worth it more than my own measly existance, I would do it again.

Yes, if we figured she is a Critic.~tp

There may be just that possibility. Day 2, tgwbs' language changes towards Fea...

Post 329

This make Fea seem even more critic.

Although Wild Man now thoroughly prejudice, this seem critic question to him.

Post 341

Wild Man say every game, every game none listen. Perhaps Fea critic. Perhaps Wild Man critic. Therefore, cannot trust what you say, cannot trust what Wild Man say

Now if he did spot Fea as the cobbler, and with the talk of the Cobbler's ability to spy this could be tgwbs just trying to throw Fea off. And so he changes his language by starting to call Fea a critic. Or, his vote for Fea on Day 1 was a statement of intent for his next night dream, he checks on Fea and finds she's a critic.

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry, had this open in a different tab and forgot to submit it. Enjoy!

Brinn-->Gollum at 7:40am
Sally-->Gollum at 8:52am
TGWBS-->Fea at 9:42am
Kath-->Ilya at 11:53am
Mac-->Ilya at 12:05pm
Agan-->Ilya at 12:08pm
Fea-->Ilya at 12:09pm
Boro-->Ilya at 12:13pm
Lari-->Shasta at 12:15pm

Gwath-->Sally at 12:16pm (past DL)
Ilya-->Gollum at 12:21pm (past DL, retracted)

Ilya-->Mac at 12:24pm (past DL)

Didn't vote: Shasta, Bowie, Gollum, Cailin/Eomer

For those of you unfamiliar with my vote tallies, italicized villagers are innocent, underlined villagers are known baddies, and all vote times are Central, with a deadline of about 12pm.

[Gollum the Great]

Sorry if I seem pretty dumb, but I didn't even know Legate was playing.

[Cailín]

Do we have seven villains? That was one of the craziest things I've ever seen in Werewolf.

Well, Eomer here. Apparently I am playing today because a certain someone is busy and important.

I had just said to Cailín last night that, while the village won't be too happy with our lack of contribution, at least they wouldn't kill us on the off-chance that we're a submarine Critic - not when there's this whole Fea and Aganzir situation. A case to answer, and all that. It would be mad. I'm sure Legate would agree.

I suppose we need to assess that 7 in a row and decide who the players and the pawns are. I think our critics are staring us right in the face.

[Cailín]

I think Eomer once again managed to confirm the extent of our natural innocence.

Nothing but excellent play from the Netherlands.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I hate you all so much.

[Macalaure]

Not much going on here...

One thought:

If Fea is indeed the cobbler, do we really want to only lynch her today? I mean, the seer is dead, so the only tasks that remain for the cobbler is to find out the diva and the soulmates, which is interesting but not vital to the critics, and to take a bullet for the critics.

If Fea is the cobbler, then we're about to do exactly what she wants us to.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Errr...

I demand a mass-modfire!!

First, I am going to have a little drinky - and then I am going toexecute the whole bally lot... especially those whose noses are prettier than mine.

Seriously unimpressed.

[Boromir88]

If Fea is the cobbler, then we're about to do exactly what she wants us to.~Mac

Perhaps, but we need to start somewhere, and our best shot is Fea.

If she's a critic, maybe we can go in pick up other mates.
If she's the cobbler, maybe we can discern her other spies.

(And yes I realize with Fea either one of those is a crap shoot. I can't even figure her out when she says "I left you a clue, and here it is for you!").

But we got to start somewhere, and I would prefer it not be Agan, who there's really nothing on other than being paired with Fea. Which, albeit doesn't look good for a critic-Agan, but if she's innocent and is caught in an unintentional assocations? Unless you propose a double-lynch today, because whether Fea turns out critic or Walter, it won't change anything regarding Agan, and we'd essentially end up lynching her the next day anyway?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

You really shouldn't blame Lari. She was nothing but hesitant. The others can attest to that.

[the phantom]

This is what happens when everyone gets on IM all at once.

But seriously, less than three hours to the deadline. Good luck with your decision. I shall sing at you all tomorrow.

For Fea, I'm afraid it just might be....

Past the point of no return
No backward glances
The games we've played til now are at an end
Past all thought of "if" or "when"
No use resisting
Abandon thought and let the dream descend . . .

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Unless she counts the mass Legate vote (which it doesn't look like she will).

It's certainly a moment to go in the werewolf history books.

[Lariren Shadow]

Fea to Boro:
As if. I wasn't asking you to take a bullet for me, I was asking you to give one. At an opportunely vindictive moment.

That's an interesting quote and I know Boro picked up on it. I understand that this might be another lover ploy but...I don't know. It looks to possibly incriminate Boro as another wolf(if Fea is a wolf or cobbler and spied on Boro).

Even the reply is interesting:
"Boro: If I thought you were worth it, I'd still be more than glad to take the noose for you. I recall attempting that not too long ago, because I was far too big of a distraction towards the end, but that didn't work out. I made the attempt though, and if I thought you were worth it more than my own measly existance, I would do it again."

Makes me think they are possibly wolves together. Fea could be a sacrifice to get suspicions off of him.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I thought we were settled on me being a cobbler these days...

If I'm a cobbler and I dreamed of Boro, I wouldn't bring attention to it. Or at least I'd try to make it look like something it wasn't, if I was forced to acknowledge him.

Does me saying Mith shouldn't kill you, Lari, because we had to talk you into it, suggest that I'm singling you out for dubious reasons? No, I just feel bad that our shenanigans might get you in trouble.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I have to go, and won't be around for deadline, and I don't really want to frivolously repeal my vote, lest I get in more trouble.

*love you, Mith*

My advice to the village for after you kill me: look to those who react to everything. They're usually wolves.

Look for ones who look like wolves. They're usually not.

Don't mess this village up, it's too fun to watch.

[Kath]

We really are very sorry Mith, blame the madness that falls when eight downers get together on MSN. And you have the prettiest nose of all as we all know.

Despite everything that happened earlier when we all worked together, it was an out of game discussion that led to it, not one of us mentioned a role.

Anyway, back to the real matters of toDay. I ought to have posted earlier but we ended up going shopping (I have new shoes!). I'm going to find some lunch now and then I'll be back to post so sorry Agan but you might have a late big post again.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Boro

Unless you propose a double-lynch today, because whether Fea turns out critic or Walter, it won't change anything regarding Agan, and we'd essentially end up lynching her the next day anyway?

A double-lynch was exactly what I was proposing (I guess I wasn't clear enough - too early in the morning). If we only lynch Fea, we do what she wants us to (provided she really is the cobbler). We need to get rid of Fea in any case if we don't want our seer to turn in his grave, so why not lynch her and take the chance and try to lynch another baddie, too? The most likely candidate for that is Aganzir, of course, but I'd be willing to listen if someone suggests somebody better.

[Aganzir]

Sorry Mith. Won't do it again. I can't deny it was fun though.

Originally Posted by Mac

I'm not buying that, I'm afraid. It would have been a sloppy analysis if it paid no attention to this fact, but the rest of your analysis was not sloppy at all, so I suspect intent.

I can repeat it after the game.
Besides if an analysis is otherwise good, does it mean there can't be any sloppy bits?

Originally Posted by Mac

On Aganzir suspecting Fea before: It could be (and is likely, I'd say) that Fea is the cobbler and Aganzir a critic, so that does not prove the innocence of either. Not to mention the critic-on-critic possibility.

I wasn't trying to prove my innocence with it, I was commenting on your post saying I started to suspect Fea only now to save my skin.

I agree with Boro about lynching Fea, especially if the other candidate is me. I'm gradually getting more afraid also of him though.

I'll try if I can come up with something regarding Mac before deadline.

edit: xed with two Feas, Kath & Mac

[Boromir88]

Makes me think they are possibly wolves together. Fea could be a sacrifice to get suspicions off of him.~Lari

Or she's been ousted as a lover, and tgwbs devised a plan to set her up for a kill, so her other half can make the revenge kill. Because one half may just might be more powerful than the other - have you taken that into consideration? tgwbs can't know the specifics of the role, he just finds out who's who. Don't put it past the Moddess Mith to have a couple more tricks up her sleave. This isn't fear-mongering, just saying, don't get cocky, or think this one's in the bag, when we find out about Fea.

Ok, all kidding and outrageous theories aside, I have no association with Fea other than I will briefly mourn her passing as a beloved and respected singer, but know it was necessary as traitorous and deadly one. I suspect she thinks I walked right into he deceitful web, but the show has just begun. Wait and see who wins this chess game and a battle of wits. I'll let her have the queen, but it's going to cost her checkmate.

Edit: Crossed with everyone since Lari's post

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'll miss you, darling.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, then we're all safe, as none of us has a nose nearly as pretty as Mistress Mith's. (And we are sorry. We were talking about random stuff and it sounded like a fun plan to do at the time. )

Now back to business....

Okay, so I went through TGWBS' posts and was sad to come to much the same conclusion as everyone else. I wanted to come up with something new. *pouts*

He really doesn't have any evidence for Fea, but he's pretty set that she's a critic. Now, obviously it's possible that he just had a hunch, but between his various statements regarding Fea and how tricksy Fea is in general, I think we could safely get rid of her. (Though I also am suspicious of some others, which I will get to if I have time....I slept in a bit so I'm in a rush and wanted to get my vote in)


Smoke! Smoke! Sign of the devil, sign of the devil, set it on fire
Witch! Witch! Smell it sir, an evil smell, every night at the Vespers' bell,
Smoke that comes from the mouth of hell, set it on fire
MIschief, mischief! Mischief!


--Legate (if I seriously even need to do that, which I doubt. But to be safe....)


++Fea





EDIT: x'd with Boro and Agan and Fea. For Boro....(Sorry, if it's a bit off, I'm tired)
"You challenge me to a battle of wits?" *nod* "For the lynch?" *nod* "I accept."