The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[Tevildo]

Folwren,

I've sent you the post we discussed. Feel free to adjust and add as needed.

Pio -

Yes, I will have her remember some things in a rather jumbled way. I'll put it in a new box.....she may not wake up for a bit.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Folwren- When Shae reaches the camp, perhaps Athwen could take notice and tend to Shae's wounded hands. Now that her bandages are gone, the wounds and blood will be quite obvious.

Okay. Sounds good to me. If people shook hands in ME when they met, that'd be a really easy way to find out, but I don't know if they do. . .I mean, I can see Hobbits doing it, but I'm not sure if the Rohirrim did.

--Folwren

[Folwren]

Save filled! The post was written by both Tevildo and myself. (Tell me if anything is wrong with what I did after you worked it, Tevildo.)

-- Folwren

[Child of the 7th Age]

Hilde, Durelin, Brinniel, ...

If no one objects I will do a short "generic" post that has Lindir lead our small band westward. The post will end as we approach the knoll where Athwen and the others are waiting. I'll wait till Saturday evening to put this up. That way, if anyone has anything they want to say or do before we arrive at the knoll, they'll have a chance to post first or at least reserve a save.

As it stands now, there will be no immediate attacks from Imak per his last post. (Given the state of several of our members, that is a lucky thing!) Lindir will be fairly certain that there won't be a mass attack but will still wonder if there might be a slaver or two taking pot shots at us. Fortunately, that will not happen.

Everyone (except the orcs who are patiently waiting)

Once everyone gets to the knoll, I am assuming we'll move out fairly quickly and make our way uneventfully to the slave camp. We haven't really talked or planned for what will happen once we get there. I am thinking we might want to talk about this a little on the discussion thread (not that everything has to be pinned down). Even if we don't spell out the specifics, it's nice to get an idea of the general outline of things.

Just a few random thoughts/questions......

• What kind of reception will the fellowship get from the slaves and the leaders of the slaves---(hey, guys, give us a warning if you're going to drum us out of camp.)
• Would there be any slaves arguing that the group should take off the next day without fighting (despite what Imak thinks) since the prisoners have been released, or would this not even come up in discussion?
• Assuming we fight, what do we do to protect the children and those women who do not feel comfortable wielding a sword? Do we just find them a good shelter, or is there a role for "noncombattants"?
• Presumably we'll have to set up some kind of "planning body" to decide on and carry out the various traps and decoys we talked about earlier...., and,
• Who is well enough to fight and who isn't? Both physically and mentally! I have my doubts about some of those slaves.

Anyone else with thoughts on this or additional questions/ideas?

*******************

Secondly, I just wanted to tell everyone how much I've enjoyed the quality of writing in this game. Some really great stuff! I am looking forward (maybe that's the wrong word?) to pulling the slaves and fellowship together and then bringing the wild card--the orcs--into the equation.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

No objections here.

[Durelin]

What kind of reception will the fellowship get from the slaves and the leaders of the slaves---(hey, guys, give us a warning if you're going to drum us out of camp.)

Well, I imagine Shae will approach first, and Khamir will be quick to receive her, having been worried about her. Then, what follows... Well, Khamir will be shocked. How the rest of the slave camp reacts...well, some will be thankful for the Fellowship, others I imagine will be insulted by the 'help.' Particularly since they are so used to being without it. I don't see the slaves getting together enough to actually be *against* the Fellowship, so I think they will be as technically accepted as they can be.

Really, I think the majority of the slaves will readily accept the Fellowship. I imagine a few will be bitter, but mostly I imagine they will readily accept an outside force as more of a 'leader' (though they would never consciously admit that they need to be or want to be lead by anyone or anything), in place of any leading Khamir has done.

Would there be any slaves arguing that the group should take off the next day without fighting (despite what Imak thinks) since the prisoners have been released, or would this not even come up in discussion?

If the Fellowship arrives late in the night, I don't know if things will be 'settled' enough before the next day for anyone to even bring up moving on... I'm not imagining there being enough time. Either there will be some rejoicing, or there will be utter confusion.

Or...the Fellowship can be readily accepted because they are the rescuers of the children, and are those who were promised by the King of Gondor (and the slaves are ready to accept aid from Gondor), and someone(s) calls for revenge on the slavers. Or, someone could be a voice of 'common sense,' either in the Fellowship or one of the slaves, saying that there's no sense in them running off if those slavers are just going to be on their tails the rest of the way...wherever. (I can see Vror doing that, if need be. )

Assuming we fight, what do we do to protect the children and those women who do not feel comfortable wielding a sword? Do we just find them a good shelter, or is there a role for "noncombattants"?

Perhaps the "noncombattants" can play a role in those traps and such that were discussed?

I'll have to think about those questions, and the others, a little bit more...

Also, I'd like to second that remark on the quality of this game. It's really marvellous! I can't believe everyone's been so into character development and interaction that we've gone five pages already without getting all the groups together that we initially intended to have together near the start of the game! It's astounding...in a wonderful way, at least in my opinion.

[Nogrod]

I'm bent to the direction of the ex-slaves greeting the fellowship as the saviours who will solve all their problems... That would be just natural. Surely some would grunt, though.

But at the same time it would leave open the question of the ex-slaves freedom in the first place: so just changing a bad lord to a good one - where is the freedom if you are under someone's orders anyhow, good or bad??

Looks very good indeed!

[Firefoot]

Johari's going to be somewhere between neutral and opposed, I think. She certainly won't be welcoming them with open arms.

[Undómë]

A quick question - can you give me an estimate of how many women and children are in the slave escapee party? What would be a good number to assume?

Brenna has been a slave for a long time - she will greet the fellowship with a misxture of fear and hope once she sees how they've rescued the two children.

I don't think she's at the place where she can consider what it means to be free, and so she would see being under the protection of/subject to a good lord/ruler/decision maker as being a right move for her.

[Nogrod]

My save #199 is filled... at last.

A quick question - can you give me an estimate of how many women and children are in the slave escapee party? What would be a good number to assume?

I think this was discussed in the planning phase already... So check from there, if no one remembers that out right.

[Durelin]

A quick question - can you give me an estimate of how many women and children are in the slave escapee party? What would be a good number to assume?

Hmm... Well, should we assume that more men would have been able to escape, or more women and children? Perhaps more men were the 'force' in the escape, and so more likely to be killed or recaptured in the escape because they made sure the others could escape? Or perhaps more men escaped because they were 'stronger?' Or perhaps more men escaped because there are more male slaves working on the plantations? Or, vice versa (more women and/or children escaped for that reason).

I think anything can go. Perhaps we should say there are more women and children together than men, but men out number women?

We could say there are 37 women and children, and 23 men. Out of the women and children, 9 women and 7 children can and are willing to fight. Or something like that. Though I suppose it also depends what we determine 'children' are. What age makes a boy a man, a girl a woman? Perhaps as early as sixteen, considering??

I think I might be making this more difficult than it really is.

[Nogrod]

Yeah. Is Adnan "a man"?

Or some others sharing his stature?

A mod-decision here would be worthwhile as we close the action / meeting...

[Brinniel]

perhaps more men escaped because there are more male slaves working on the plantations?

Keeping in mind the patterns of the history of society in RL, I always thought that certain aspects of ME history would be similar. If I remember correctly, in real history the percentage of female slaves has always been much higher than males. Of course, you do have a point- it's more likely that the males were doing the most physical labor, working in the plantations.

Anyways, let me see if I can get to what I'm trying to say....

We could say there are 37 women and children, and 23 men. Out of the women and children, 9 women and 7 children can and are willing to fight.

I kind of have to disagree that there would be more women/children. Though there are more female slaves, few would be required to do the more physical tasks that the men must do. Most likely they'd do tasks that would fit the role of women- cooking, caring for children, etc (of course there are exceptions for the younger, stronger women such as Shae). Anyways, since their tasks are less exhausting, the women are probably more accepting of their position as slaves and less willing to risk their lives to escape. I would imagine very few children attempting escape. No mother would risk their child's life like that. All the children that have escaped are most likely orphans, who really don't have anyone to care for them, and they should be capable to escape on their own (even if barely). Though it is likely more men would die in the process of escape, I think there would be twice the amount of men than women escaping in the first place. And don't forget we're also including the fifteen experienced ex-slaves (14 men + Shae). My guess is that the numbers would be around (this is including the fifteen) 37 men, 21 women, and 7 children (children being 11-15 -I assume there wouldn't be children any younger than that). We do have 65 ex-slaves total, right?

Remember, these ex-slaves are the most radical of slaves. Slavery is a horrible lifestyle, but at least as long as a slave is obedient, they have a chance to survive. By escaping, all these ex-slaves put their lives on the line. Though few may be skilled in weaponry, because they managed to escape in the first place, almost all the slaves should be capable of fighting. Exceptions are but not limited to the oldest of the ex-slaves, the youngest, the injured, the mentally incapacitated, and of course, those who aren't willing to participate (which would most likely be more women than men).

Anyways, I apologize if I just rambled- it's a bit late, but hopefully I did make some sense. Just my thought on the matter....

[Regin Hardhammer]

Nogrod,

I made the change. Thanks.

___________________________

But at the same time it would leave open the question of the ex-slaves freedom in the first place: so just changing a bad lord to a good one - where is the freedom if you are under someone's orders anyhow, good or bad??

I don't think most slaves felt like that. Morodr isn't like the Shire. It's too dangerous. It's a place where protection is needed to survive. Most slaves would want to find a good leader and live under his protection. Of course, they'd still have a lot more personal freedom than on the plantation.

Yeah, there might be a few rebels who wanted to be totally on their own. But those people would probably choose to live a life of wandering.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

- it's more likely that the males were doing the most physical labor, working in the plantations.

I don't know about this Brinniel. A woman's role is effected by the culture she lives in and her place in that society. I remember my utter astonishment to see road and construction crews in rural India, which were predominately female. For instance the men would mix cement and load it into pans that the women would carry up ladders and onto rooves etc. Another man or two would oversee and perform the more skilled part of the operation, but the women were definitely the grunt labor. On road crews the work was just as cruelling and the women would rig their infants in makesift hammocks by the side of the road while they 'manhandled' piles of gravel and stones. A lot of these women didn't seem very young or hardy to me, but they certainly had endurance!

It was an eye opener to me.

[Durelin]

Everyone has excellent points here, and I think the solution is simply to choose, since we determine what is appropriate for Mordor's inhabitants at this time in ME history.

Trust me, I can be quite the feminist, but I'm also often a stick-in-the-mud realist when it comes to roleplaying and storytelling in general - and right now I'm just trying to figure out what could be 'realistic' in the Fourth Age of ME Mordor.

At any rate, perhaps the wisest way to go is to say that all of the slaves will play a role, all will be armed with whatever they can find, but, the older slaves, the women who are not accustomed to fighting or would not like to fight (or who simply volunteer to look after and guard the children), and the younger children will be in charge of the traps and decoys we must plan. The men, women who are quite fine wielding a weapon, and the older children (which could range from even 13 or 14 on), will be taking up the 'better' weapons available, and being the core of the slave fighting force.

What those numbers are is relative, I think. But I think it is safe to assume that the majority of the slaves will be fighting. We could make it simple and approximate 40:20, or even 45:15, to get an idea.

Does anyone (or everyone) feel we need specific numbers? I don't know if that's quite important.

[Undómë]

Thanks for the answers to my question - I only wanted to get an approximate idea of the numbers of women and children who might be along.

So, I've filled my SAVE. And been vague about the numbers of women and children.

There are two characters I used/made up:

Gwenith - @ 11 y/o girl

and Nia who I see as @ 16, and so a 'woman', really.

Granny and the women and girls gathered about her will certainly able to offer some defence if attacked as you can read in the post.

Hope this serves.

~ U

[Nogrod]

This looks good Undome!

I hope you don't mind if I will make Hadith to call for the females so ready alredy... We need to have an organised defense for the the slave-escapees anyhow. They would be stupid indeed not to pay attention to any common effort...

[Firefoot]

My save #195 is filled. I'm sorry it took so long; RL has really been catching up with me lately and writing time has been scarce this week. I promise my involvement will pick up after the next two weeks or so. A lot's happening right now and I really wish I could post more.

Concerning gender ratios: I don't think it's ultimately important. The same goes for age; unless it becomes important for some reason, I'm comfortable going for now with general guidelines such as about twice or three times as many men than women, and most of the people are probably between 15 and 35 years old. But that's me.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

They would be stupid indeed not to pay attention to any common effort...

I didn't want to sound anything like a chauvinist here... It was meant to cover all the slaves.

[Undómë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I didn't want to sound anything like a chauvinist here... It was meant to cover all the slaves.

Now that's funny, because I thought you were referring to the men as stupid!


Yes, you can have Hadith drop by. That would be good.

Hmmm . . . Hadith is 18 right?

~ U

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Undómë

Now that's funny, because I thought you were referring to the men as stupid!

Yes, you can have Hadith drop by. That would be good.

Hmmm . . . Hadith is 18 right?

~ U

How we can see things!

Yeah, Hadith is 18.

I'll see if I have time to make a drop in today, tomorrow...

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

The save for Carl has been filled.

[Child of the 7th Age]

My save is also filled. Dorran - you have your lead-in. Use Lindir as needed.

[Folwren]

I was thinking about the riding double thing a few days ago. . .Azhar will have to ride with someone who can keep her up on the horse and steady. She's not going to really be strong enough to keep herself up. (That is, I don't think she'll be able to in her present condition, but if Tevildo wants to change that, that's fine.) I was thinking (others can disagree with me) that Azhar would ride in front of the original rider, where he could keep and arm about her as they rode. Athwen can't keep her up. She's too small. Azhar's probably as tall as she is (I can't remember how tall Tevildo said Azhar was) and a weight like that would be hard to keep on a horse. Can Lindir take Azhar with him?

We also have a few additional horses, with Shae's and that slaver's horse that Dorran picked up.

Kwell can ride behind anybody.

-- Folwren

[Child of the 7th Age]

Can Lindir take Azhar with him?

That's fine Folwren. Lindir will be glad to help. What you say makes sense.

Tevildo, how does that sound to you?

Folwren, Tevildo -- Shall I edit Lindir's original suggestion in the post, or shall we deal with the change of plans in the actual story? I'm very open here to either option.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

Folwren, Tevildo -- Shall I edit Lindir's original suggestion in the post, or shall we deal with the change of plans in the actual story? I'm very open here to either option.

Either way works, but I was thinking as I read it that we could just change it in the story. Have Athwen say something to the effect of what I just said and go on.

But I don't care that much. Whatever you want to do.

-- Folwren

[Child of the 7th Age]

I was thinking as I read it that we could just change it in the story.

I also think this is the best approach.

[Folwren]

In the post I'm about to place, I used Shae a bit, Brinniel. If you need anything changed, let me know, of course, and I'll be quite happy to change it.

Hilde, I'd gotten from your last post that Carl was going to tell Athwen about Shae's hands. That's what he was speaking to her about when Aiwendil walks up. (Anyway, it will be, once I place my post.) I did not think that he would have mentioned the stone just then. If you want him to tell her sometime, you can write it.

And I think that's all. If not, I'll edit this again after I finish and place the post.

-- Folwren

[Brinniel]

Her had feared being stopped by the slavers, attacked and forced to fight.

You mean "he" right? Not a major typo, but enough to almost confuse me...

I think everything looks good for Shae on your post, Folwren. I think I'll put in a save, but due the load of schoolwork I'm not sure how soon I can fill it. Friday night would probably be the latest; if that's too long, let me know and I'll remove it.

Folwren, most of my post will most likely be between Shae and Athwen. Let me know if there's anything specific you would like me to add into it.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Thanks Folwren. Carl with have to work up the courage to tell Athwen.

[Folwren]

Hm, yes, I did mean 'He had feared'. I'll fix that. Thanks.

I can't think of anything I want Athwen to do or say in particular, besidse trying to clean it and put something onto it to help it heal. She'll probably ask what it is from, though, but if Shae doesn't want to tell her, she's not likely to push for an answer.

Originally Posted by Hilde

Thanks Folwren. Carl with have to work up the courage to tell Athwen.

I thought so. Go ahead and work up the courage. I'm patient.

-- Folwren

[Tevildo]

Lindir and Dorran are doing a joint post. I've put Child's post in the save and will give my response for Dorran later, hopefully tonight. So for now please bear with me for a half done post.

[Tevildo]

I haven't forgotten the rest of my save. This has been a crazy week. Every time I set aside time to write, something messes it up!

[Tevildo]

OK, I filled my save. I put it in a new post. Child wrote the end of the post and I put that up with mine.

[Regin Hardhammer]

I didn't want people to think I've dropped out of the game. Since both my characters are orcs (and there aren't many of us), I am having a hard time coming up with an idea till time moves forward. Once the slavers move out of their camp, Ishkur will have plenty of things to do.

If any of you other orcs have any ideas for right now, please send me a pm. I won't be on till late Monday night.

- Regin

[Brinniel]

Okay, save filled.

Sorry it took so long. I swear I was planning to fill it last night, but for some reason I couldn't get onto the site...

I hope you approve of my use of Athwen, Folwren.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Seems like I'm in the habit of saying this on this thread, but here we go again....
Carl's save is filled.

EDIT: Nice image of a tower Child. Thanks for including it.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I hope you approve of my use of Athwen, Folwren.

She was fine. You used her well.

-- Folwren

[Undómë]

SAVE filled.

Just waiting for Hadith to introduce himself and tell his plan.