Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hey Elempi, feel free to answer me on here or via PM, but do you have any ideas/requests for the save that is possibly more likely to be filled tomorrow than today, due simply to how much homework I have?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Imladris

This is probably stupid of me but there are too many pages to weed through to find my answer:

Who is Avarien?

And, I've been wanting to ask this for a very long time now (ever since mark said she could not be involved with the rp) but I didn't want to be a wet blanket: would it be wise and fruitful to the story to continue without mark12_30?

Very astute questions, all of them.

Avarien is apparently an Elvish woman Helen dreamed up who, as the name suggests, was "Unwilling, a Refuser". She refused to go over the Sea with Amroth and his kindred; so unlike Nimrodel, who wanted to but tragedy overcame her desire, Avarien is one who refused to go and may have hindered Nimrodel. So the sense from Helen, I believe, is that Avarien is guilty of having hindered Nimrodel from following Amroth, and is now very sorry for it, and is now willing to make amends in whatever way she can. I don't know if Avarien's féa is in Mellonin after years spent in the Halls of Mandos, or not. I'm not sure Helen had that worked out.

That Helen posted tells me that she still cares about it enough to follow it if she can't find time to post. That she made no comment to accompany her post tells me that she really is short of time. No wonder, with a family that has doubled in size (from just the two of them to 4, the additions being 2 very, very active young Russian boys who keep them very busy).

That Helen posted at all, and without comment, suggests to me that she is willing to let us make decisions we deem appropriate in order to write the story the best way we know how, in order to achieve the ultimate plot goal. Sometimes that means leaving characters behind that are no longer useful.

Originally Posted by Fea

Hey Elempi, feel free to answer me on here or via PM, but do you have any ideas/requests for the save that is possibly more likely to be filled tomorrow than today, due simply to how much homework I have?

Only that if you can think up some deviously evil thing that Tharonwë might do to hinder, injure, maim, or otherwise be nasty, to various and sundry members of the party, be my guest, because so far I haven't thought of anything.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Only that if you can think up some deviously evil thing that Tharonwë might do to hinder, injure, maim, or otherwise be nasty, to various and sundry members of the party, be my guest, because so far I haven't thought of anything.

Right then. I like my poetry class enough to pay attention, but I'll brainstorm evil in my two undesired hours of 17th century lit.

[Nurumaiel]

It's Monday and, as promised, I'm ready to go again.

But I've been absent for such a time that I must admit I'm a bit uncertain as to what is needed of Leafa and/or Liornung. What ought I to do?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And a nine hour day turned into a thirteen hour one that just, finally, ended, and tomorrow is twelve hours straight again...

So I have no real idea of when I'm actually going to be mentally or physically capable of writing a post.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Nurumaiel

It's Monday and, as promised, I'm ready to go again.

But I've been absent for such a time that I must admit I'm a bit uncertain as to what is needed of Leafa and/or Liornung. What ought I to do?

We've kind of established that Leafa and Ædegard are going to stay with the recovering Mellonin, and that Liornung is going to volunteer to continue on, but needs a Ranger's assistance to get back to the others, so Ravion will help him find his way back to the others before he returns to Mellonin.

If you need more info than that, please ask.

Fea, thanks for the update. I can be patient. Maybe I can even try and come up with something nasty for Tharonwë to do.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Avarien is apparently an Elvish woman Helen dreamed up who, as the name suggests, was "Unwilling, a Refuser". She refused to go over the Sea with Amroth and his kindred; so unlike Nimrodel, who wanted to but tragedy overcame her desire, Avarien is one who refused to go

yup

Originally Posted by lmp

and may have hindered Nimrodel. So the sense from Helen, I believe, is that Avarien is guilty of having hindered Nimrodel from following Amroth, and is now very sorry for it, and is now willing to make amends in whatever way she can.

You put it better than I thought it...

I don't know if Avarien's féa is in Mellonin after years spent in the Halls of Mandos, or not. I'm not sure Helen had that worked out.

True, I haven't

That Helen posted tells me that she still cares about it enough to follow it if she can't find time to post. That she made no comment to accompany her post tells me that she really is short of time. No wonder, with a family that has doubled in size (from just the two of them to 4, the additions being 2 very, very active young Russian boys who keep them very busy).

That Helen posted at all, and without comment, suggests to me that she is willing to let us make decisions we deem appropriate in order to write the story the best way we know how, in order to achieve the ultimate plot goal.

I'm kind of guest-posting... thinking that it seems to be moving slowly enough that I can drizzle in once or twice a week? I hope?

Only that if you can think up some deviously evil thing that Tharonwë might do to hinder, injure, maim, or otherwise be nasty, to various and sundry members of the party, be my guest, because so far I haven't thought of anything.

Creepy danged dark-elf... brrr.

Regarding Ravion leaving-- oy! FOr how long? Mellonin will sink again without him. Ain't love grand.

[mark12_30]

....it's vewy vewy quiet.....

[littlemanpoet]

Nice to have you back and saying such things, Helen. I've been bloody busy at work lately. I'll have time to post something quite soon. Actually, I did earlier but I saw Fea's save and so halted in midstep, and am now waiting for her.

[mark12_30]

OK! Firefoot, Roheryn just scented Rugh's presence.

Nuru, would you like to have Liornung and/or Leafa try and catch Roheryn? He'll be aloof and reluctant, knowing that he is waiting on an elvish lady for orders. And there's Rugh out there waiting to be discovered (by the humans anyway.)

What will our wild mountain people do next? Once Mellonin/Avarien are travelable again, do they join us as we head over the White Mountains by the path Nimrodel took? COuld be fun.

Girls: No, THIS way. Mountain folk: You crazy, that way big icy rocks. Guys: Sure, pick the toughest route. Girls: fine, let's go home. GUys: Nothing doing. March! Girls: We're cold. GUys: Egad, whose idea WAS this? MOuntain folk: Ask big icy rocks.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Actually, I did earlier but I saw Fea's save and so halted in midstep, and am now waiting for her.

Egads, don't wait for me! If you beat me to a post, seriously, have at it and I'll work off of you.

It takes 12 hours per week inside a classroom to be called a full time student. I worked out my schedule last night... this term I'm in a classroom with a teacher for 27 hours a week. That's not counting homework or my part time job. And I love to sleep at night. So yeah, seriously? If you have time and energy and inspiration, feel free to jump in ahead of me, even if I've got a save up.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

OK! Firefoot, Roheryn just scented Rugh's presence.

Nuru, would you like to have Liornung and/or Leafa try and catch Roheryn? He'll be aloof and reluctant, knowing that he is waiting on an elvish lady for orders. And there's Rugh out there waiting to be discovered (by the humans anyway.)

What will our wild mountain people do next? Once Mellonin/Avarien are travelable again, do they join us as we head over the White Mountains by the path Nimrodel took? COuld be fun.

Girls: No, THIS way. Mountain folk: You crazy, that way big icy rocks. Guys: Sure, pick the toughest route. Girls: fine, let's go home. GUys: Nothing doing. March! Girls: We're cold. GUys: Egad, whose idea WAS this? MOuntain folk: Ask big icy rocks.

Thanks for giving this some focus, direction, and motivation, Helen. Have you read much of the past discussion? There has been general agreement that we're tired of carrying characters of those who have not been writing at all in the past six-plus months, and we'd like to drop them. What are your thoughts on that?

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Thanks for giving this some focus, direction, and motivation, Helen. Have you read much of the past discussion? There has been general agreement that we're tired of carrying characters of those who have not been writing at all in the past six-plus months, and we'd like to drop them. What are your thoughts on that?

I've been checking in on the story, but not the whole discussion thread. It's twelve pages...

Whom did you have in mind for dropping? Some can't, I think; can't drop Ravion, too tied to Mellonin; can't drop Erebemlin, Taitheneb, or, ah, Mellondu/Amroth. Who else has been among the missing?

~After reading lmp's post~
Hey! I know I've been absent, and all that, but you're going to kill off the title character??? Dang that darkelf!!!

[mark12_30]

OK, I scanned back a bit.

Avarien (I realized a few minutes ago) was Nimrodel's guide across the White Mountains. Only she got Nimrodel to the top of the pass, pointed, and said, "There's Edhellond; go your way. But I shall turn back; I would rather have the Waters of Awakening, than these waters that will part from me all that I have loved." She then spent several hundred years searching for Cuivienen, but the shape of the world has changed, and she never found it. Whether she died of a broken heart, or whether she is languishing somewhere dreaming, Amroth's searching crossed her awareness and she came looking for Nimrodel again.

The idea of dropping Erebemlin makes me sad, but there it is. (Taitheneb is gne already? Guess I didn't read everything...) Real life intervenes, and extra characters are difficult to deal with. The only character totally essential (for me) is Mellondu/Amroth (and of course Nimrodel.) I"d like Mellonin to come too (better for the ending I had in mind.) Somebody's got to dream Imrazor and Mithrellas.

Have we managed to separate Mellonin from everyone who could connect Avarien's comminication with Nimrodel, and get that over to Mellondu-- or Erebemlin? Amroth would cheerfully resurface, given some hope about Nimrodel; it would be a tussle with Mellondu, I'd have to ponder that a bit.

End ramble. Did I answer any questions?

[Imladris]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Have we managed to separate Mellonin from everyone who could connect Avarien's comminication with Nimrodel, and get that over to Mellondu-- or Erebemlin? Amroth would cheerfully resurface, given some hope about Nimrodel; it would be a tussle with Mellondu, I'd have to ponder that a bit.

If I'm understanding you right we could have Gwyllion notice it and casually mention it to Aeron who'll mention it to Raefindan if you would want to do it that way.

[mark12_30]

Hey Immy! Dreams, good, I like it. SO Gwyllion 'walks' with the White Mountains group but reports to Aeron via dreams? Okay.

Going over the mountains: right now we've got Ravion, Liornung, Bella, Leafa, and Ædegard, with Avarien/Mellonin, and Saethryd and Jorje all at the hut. Periphery: Roheryn and Rudh.

Who turns around to go back, who stays at Saethryd's hut, and who crosses the mountain path? I had envisioned Avarien/Mellonin crossing over the mountains, but she won't make it all on her own-- especially with her injury (how bad is it?) Although Roheryn will be a big help, he'll have a struggle at the icier parts near the top.

[Imladris]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

SO Gwyllion 'walks' with the White Mountains group but reports to Aeron via dreams?

More of a caught in between worlds as a dream ghost (I think?)...anyway, no one can see her and as she wanders she hears Avarien....or something.

Anywho, I am pretty much exhausted tonight, so the post will probably be up by tomorrow since thank god it's the weekend.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Imladris

More of a caught in between worlds as a dream ghost (I think?)...anyway, no one can see her and as she wanders she hears Avarien....or something.

Anywho, I am pretty much exhausted tonight, so the post will probably be up by tomorrow since thank god it's the weekend.

Works for me! Okay with the rest of the team, I hope?

[Imladris]

I took the liberty of going ahead with the post. If it is unsatisfactory let me know and I shall edit accordingly.

I was also re-reading (or skimming rather), this discussion thread, just to re-oil the gears as it were, and I came across the thoughts for Aedegard, specifically the dream in which he gets himself killed but then when he wakes up he goes with Leafa.

Was that still going to happen, or is there a new plan in place?

[littlemanpoet]

That's an amazing post, Immy!

Ædegard and Leafa are leaving the story. Unless Bellyn's writer comes back to us, she will leave the story....unless Nuru is willing to take her up.

Helen, if you're back now, then Ravion can stay because you can carry him. And you're the writer for Mellonin and Mellondu, so they stay.

Erebemlin has lost his writer. However, if he's the ONLY character that doesn't have a writer, anyone who wishes to can fill him in; the only problem is that Alak would do a better job, including the Marigold connection. Frustrating.

Liornung's writer is still around, although she has not yet written a post.

My earlier thought, before you returned, Helen, was that Mellondu could be killed and
Amroth switch to being hosted by Bergil, whose writer is still with us, but that won't be necessary now.

Nevertheless, Tharonwë sees an obvious strategy in trying to permanently get rid of the black smith. Remember, the Elf has learned how to use his mental abilities to put people in trances so that they do what he wants them to. I just can't remember the word for either ability off hand.

[mark12_30]

Whoa, Immy, good one.

I'll be happy to carry Ravion, and Erebemlin as needed. THe gypsy lad and his tall red horse seem to have vanished-- he'd be after Bella if something hadn't happened tohim-- so if Bella goes (and he isn't gone yet) then he goes too. I liked him; ah well; I like Ravion more, and he's key. As is Erebemlin. Shoot, it was Ravion got me back in the game. "Ain't love grand."

I am in a flurry of posting these past couple of days, but it will probably slow to two or three times a week. Is everyone okay with that? I don't want to slow things down.

Immy, before I post again I'll reread yours a couple of times. Plenty of delectable possibilities in it. Was Avarien holding Mellonin, or was Nimrodel holding Avarien/Mellonin? It's good stuff, either way.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

THe gypsy lad and his tall red horse seem to have vanished-- he'd be after Bella if something hadn't happened tohim-- so if Bella goes (and he isn't gone yet) then he goes too.

Nethwador. I clean forgot about him. Except something kept nagging at my mind that I'd forgotten someone, I just couldn't think of whom.

I don't know what to do about him. He never would have decided to stay in Minas Tirith, obviously. Maybe he never was willing to enter Minas Tirith in the first place?

By the way, 2 or 3 posts a week is an improvement over what has been happening for most of us here anyway, so it won't be seen as too infrequent. Count on that.

I like Ravion more, and he's key. As is Erebemlin. Shoot, it was Ravion got me back in the game. "Ain't love grand."

Glad he brought you back. Okay, Erebemlin stays. I wish Orual was still with us.

[Imladris]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Immy, before I post again I'll reread yours a couple of times. Plenty of delectable possibilities in it. Was Avarien holding Mellonin, or was Nimrodel holding Avarien/Mellonin? It's good stuff, either way.

Please take it whichever way you wish -- at the time I had thought that it was Avarien holding Mellonin (to show the connection), but I also find the idea of Nimrodel holding Avarien/Mellonin intriguing. Gwyllion's vision is becoming clouded, as she is dead, yet held in an inbetween world. So please take the possibilites you see and run with it.

Originally Posted by Elempi

I wish Orual was still with us.

Me too. I really miss the Aeron/Ravion friendship that was developing.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

LMP: I've got a post up for you to play with. Raefindan and a stranger lady saying things Indil doesn't understand. Indil hearing voices the Elf doesn't. Do with it what you like.

[mark12_30]

Nice, Fea! We cross-posted. Where exactly are Indil and Nastyelf?

If there are any issues with the Ravion post, sing out.

Immy & lmp-- I wish Orual would come back too. SHe writes a much better Ravion...

[mark12_30]

Immy,

Can Gwillion interact at all with landlubbers? Can Avarien somehow see/hear her, or is Aeron the only one?

All, what's the status of Erebemlin's group? Frantically searching for Indil? Where are they?

[littlemanpoet]

I am loving the new depth we have back with Helen writing again and others picking up on it. Thank you very, very much for coming back.

Originally Posted by Helen

All, what's the status of Erebemlin's group? Frantically searching for Indil? Where are they?

Do you have Barbara Strachey's "Journeys of Frodo"? If so, then I'm basing things on map 43.

If not, I'll try and describe what I'm looking at. From Minas Tirith the Great West Road runs due north for toward the Anduin and after 25 miles enters the Grey Wood. After perhaps 10 more miles the road rounds the foothill called Amon Dín, on which is set the first of the seven Beacons. (From the eastern foot of this hill is a small tributary that runs into the Anduin; where this river meets the road, is the new village where the "Four Hobbits Inn" (created in this rpg) is located, about 10 miles north of the beginning of the Grey Wood.) From Amon Dín the Great West Road now runs west, into the Drúadan Forest, which surrounds Eilenach, the foothill on which is set the second Beacon. Amon Dín and Eilenach are about 15 miles apart. Due south of Eilenach is the great Mount Mindolluin, the first of the White Mountains, at the eastern foot of which is Minas Tirith. The peak of Mindolluin is 25 miles west of Minas Tirith and 20 miles south of Eilenach,which is itself 5 miles south of the Great West Road.

It was never established where the women came into the White Mountains, but the most reasonable guess is that they followed the same road that the Riders of the Rohirrim took through the Druadan Forest (to bypass the orc encampment), which intersects with the Great West Road in the middle of the Grey Wood, about 5 miles south of the "Four Hobbits Inn" village. From this road the women slowly moved south and west until they were at the southernmost reaches of the Druadan Forest (where Rûgh lives), which climb the feet of Mindoluin as high as 2,000 feet.

What I'd like to suggest is that the cottage of Saethryd is just beyond the western edge of the Druadan, near the source of the river that flows out of the White Mountains about half way between Nardol Beacon (the 3rd) and Eilenach; this puts the cottage at roughly 2,000 feet high and 14 miles west-southwest (that means halfway between west and southwest) of Eilenach.

Tharonwë is moving quickly upward and south-southwest, to the pass between Mindolluin and the next unnamed peak, which is at least 5,000 feet up but less than 6,000. Mindoluin rises to above 11,000 & the next to over 9,000.

Tharonwë is about 10 miles north-northeast of Nimrodel and 7 miles south of Saethryd, and Raefindan and company are a half day's march (2 miles) behind him. The way is getting steeper and the time it takes to climb a mile will lengthen, so we are still perhaps a few days away from the climactic events. The longer the group is with Saethryd, the farther behind they get. One problem to solve is how to slow down both Tharonwë and the Raefindan group so that the Ravion group can catch up. The only thing that comes to mind is that Tharonwë injures someone and the rest have to halt; but that doesn't slow down Tharonwë, which maybe is okay because that gives time for his attempts to woo Nimrodel without the others around time to be told. That would be very interesting to write.

Actually, the way these maps look the way does not get very much steeper to the pass between the two peaks, so maybe we should have Nimrodel somewhere up higher on Mindolluin?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

One problem to solve is how to slow down both Tharonwë and the Raefindan group so that the Ravion group can catch up. The only thing that comes to mind is that Tharonwë injures someone and the rest have to halt; but that doesn't slow down Tharonwë, which maybe is okay because that gives time for his attempts to woo Nimrodel without the others around time to be told. That would be very interesting to write.

Don't forget that Thoronwë's not alone. I can get very creative about ways having a small visionary child around could affect things.

[Imladris]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Can Gwillion interact at all with landlubbers? Can Avarien somehow see/hear her, or is Aeron the only one?

I remember Gwyllion interacting with Mithrellas at first after she died, so yes others can see her. I think, since she has been dead for such a long time, she is a bit faded (does that make sense?) so if Avarien would want to see her she'd have to be very observent, for at this point in time, Gwyllion is weary and sad, and chooses to deliberately show herself only to Aeron.

[mark12_30]

Wow.

lmp, yes I have Strachey. Cool.

So NImrodel was right on our back porch this whole time and we NEVER KNEW IT--- waugh! Amroth has been running away from her (frantically) at the very time he was searching for her. How very ironic.

I had always pictured her living (still) in the paths of the dead, so much further west, and south of Rohan not GOndor. But-- okay. I can go with this too. I think. If her mind is closed, it doesn't matter where she is geographically. SHe's still unfindable. Right?

I had always pictured this winding up at Edhellond, or nearby, or at least on the ocean. Is that too far? I need seaside, I think. A dead, empty havens, with no elves and no boats. Is that possible on our current map, sitting on Mindolluin? If not-- brain scramble. HOw to get to the ocean? Aragorn did it in three days... right??? Gah.

Wow, so far east. LIke I said, brain scramble. Okay.

Immy, I'll be thinking about Avarien and Gwyllion. THey could both be sad together. Whatta pair!

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Don't forget that Thoronwë's not alone. I can get very creative about ways having a small visionary child around could affect things.

Cool.

Originally Posted by Helen

I had always pictured her living (still) in the paths of the dead, so much further west, and south of Rohan not GOndor. But-- okay. I can go with this too. I think. If her mind is closed, it doesn't matter where she is geographically. SHe's still unfindable. Right?

I had always pictured this winding up at Edhellond, or nearby, or at least on the ocean. Is that too far? I need seaside, I think. A dead, empty havens, with no elves and no boats. Is that possible on our current map, sitting on Mindolluin? If not-- brain scramble. HOw to get to the ocean? Aragorn did it in three days... right??? Gah.

Oh dear. This is probably my fault. I seem to recall Celuien talking about Saeryn living near the Paths of the Dead, but I failed to take that into account. Do we need to correct what I've been thinking? Has it gotten hard-wired into too many posts? I'm afraid it might be, because Rûgh has to be near the Druadan forest, and then we have people running into Saeryn, a mere day's journey west, which simply wouldn't work. So we'd have to create a reason for Rûgh to even come with the party, and to travel clear over to the Paths of the Dead. Arg. I'm not sure what to do.

Um, pray tell where's Edhellond?

Hmm... I see how this probably happened. When I imagined Imrazor and Mithrellas, I took a look at a map and saw Dol Amroth, and followed the River Gilrain straight into the White Mountains. So in my imagination Mithrellas with Imrazor was nowhere near the Paths of the Dead. So I always pictured Nimrodel as being somewhere due north of Lebennin. Then enter Rûgh as a new character, and things just sort of shifted even farther east in my imagination.

What do you want to do, Helen?

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

So we'd have to create a reason for Rûgh to even come with the party, and to travel clear over to the Paths of the Dead. Arg. I'm not sure what to do.

All is not lost. It's possible that Avarien, knowing what a tough time Nimrodel had in crossing by the river Gilraen, chose to ty crossing by Celos instead , and then planned to travel west in relative southern comfort.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Um, pray tell where's Edhellond?

NOrth of Dol Amroth, actually. Where Morthond (flowing out of Erech) and Ringlo, and Cirill all flow together. If we cross over at Celos, and then cut straight west under the foothills of the white mountains, then we can get to Edhellond through a gap in the hills (that go down to Dol Amroth.).

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Hmm... I see how this probably happened. When I imagined Imrazor and Mithrellas, I took a look at a map and saw Dol Amroth, and followed the River Gilrain straight into the White Mountains. So in my imagination Mithrellas with Imrazor was nowhere near the Paths of the Dead.

Which is good, because she wouldn't have been... Nimrodel in her crazy despair went there later, and MIthrellas joined her (reluctantly.)

We have options. How about this: Tharonwe has been drawing Nimrodel westward ever since she started taking him seriously? She's been inching westward now for -- weeks? Months? I don't know how long since she turned to THaronwe, do you? (Egad, what season is it? What month is it? Good thing it's warmer down south.) Anyway, she could be in the mountains, or south of them, or working her way along the foothills. Perhaps she will be found lingering at one of the streams.

I always sort of imagined Nimrodel finding the body of Amroth, washing in some shallow salt-water estuary or swamp or something, like one of the Dead Marsh fellows, only not foul and not rotting. It's not neccessary to the plot, but would be kind of fun.
Either way, body or no body, I always envisioned the ending of the story to be at the ocean. Edhellond (being the most ancient of the southern elf-havens) seemed best, but Dol Amroth would work, or even just a barren coastline somewhere in Lebennin. As long as there are gulls, real salt water, and a far horizon.

[Imladris]

I would love for the story to end by the sea as well. All this geographical stuff makes my head whirl....but if it's at all possible with however much tweaking...

[Celuien]

I had placed Saethyrd near the paths originally. However, my descriptions haven't been particularly precise from a geographic standpoint, so there's no problem with adjusting her location if that helps the plot.

[littlemanpoet]

I went back to read where things went awry from Helen's vision. It starts, as I expected, in one of my posts, #50. In it, Jorje has just joined Rugh when the unnamed rider (Mellonin/Avarien) crosses theirt path. Jorje gives chase, and the horse falls, and Mellonin falls, and then I have Saethryd's cottage just around the corner. This is where we would have to start repairing the rpg if we choose to.

The reason I say this is that I really don't want to mess with key points of Helen's vision for this. Turns out there were more key points than I had understood. Oh well.

I'm quite willing to make it somehow so that Saethryd lives near the Paths of the Dead. In order to achieve that, Rugh has to either be convinced to join the search party, or has to have some reason to follow it. It would have to be a pretty persuasive reason, because it would mean leaving the mountains and the woods and moving along the open road, or more slowly off the road. The change would have to come within post #50, #69 (another one of mine), and #70, which is Firefoot's post, following my lead, in which Rugh follows Jorje to Saethryd's cottage. Post #71 was vague on location and would not have to be changed. Post #72 would have to be changed, to include a rather longish journey toward Edoras, but that leads to a problem: how do the men know where to look for the women?

Also, #72 needs to explain the absence of Nethwador; but I have no idea why he's not with the group, plot-wise. Some help there?

More changes would need to be done later, but at this point I'm only making suggestions.

By the way, Helen, I think you mean that Nimrodel's connection to Tharonwe would draw her EAST, not WEST.

On the other hand, Mindolluin is much closer to the salt water and gulls than Erech is.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

By the way, Helen, I think you mean that Nimrodel's connection to Tharonwe would draw her EAST, not WEST.

Roger that. East.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I went back to read where things went awry from Helen's vision. It starts, as I expected, in one of my posts, #50. In it, Jorje has just joined Rugh when the unnamed rider (Mellonin/Avarien) crosses theirt path. Jorje gives chase, and the horse falls, and Mellonin falls, and then I have Saethryd's cottage just around the corner. This is where we would have to start repairing the rpg if we choose to.

I'm quite willing to make it somehow so that Saethryd lives near the Paths of the Dead.

How about she used to live there, but when they left it got boring so she moved a few miles w--- eh, EAST. MOre towards the pass that Avarien will use.

THen we could do something like this:
Rugh follows Roheryn & Mellonin for some odd reason for many many miles. Many miles. OUt of his forest, etc, He doesn't know why, really, except (I dunno) maybe the elf-woman calls him, or he thinks he heard some sort of call, or something. (Ideas please. Maybe Gwyll haunts him.) Jorje trots along. Avarien follows the trails toward the old pass she used before. (Ringlo? GIlraen? I believe GIlraen was the stream Nimrodel lingered by...)

THey get close to Saethryd's newish cottage: still very eeermy. JOrje THEN fritzes out, (Maybe Rugh does too) and scares Roheryn who dumps Mellonin. RIght next to the eeermy cottage.

There are holes in it but it's a start.

In order to achieve that, Rugh has to either be convinced to join the search party, or has to have some reason to follow it. It would have to be a pretty persuasive reason, because it would mean leaving the mountains and the woods and moving along the open road, or more slowly off the road. The change would have to come within post #50, #69 (another one of mine), and #70, which is Firefoot's post, following my lead, in which Rugh follows Jorje to Saethryd's cottage. Post #71 was vague on location and would not have to be changed. Post #72 would have to be changed,

DId I simplify this at all?

to include a rather longish journey toward Edoras, but that leads to a problem: how do the men know where to look for the women?

Also, #72 needs to explain the absence of Nethwador; but I have no idea why he's not with the group, plot-wise. Some help there?

I'll think about Nethwador for a bit.

They don't have to go all the way towrad Edoras; the pass towards RInglo would be an obvious choice for someone hurrying to Edhellond. Gilraen would also do since that's where Nimrodel originally lingered.

In terms of looking for the women, there's always basic tracking-- Ravion IS a ranger. Avarien is enough of a horsewoman to let her mount enjoy the turf, kindness to his feet & legs, etc. Let's say there has been enough rain, the hoofprints in the turf beside the road are deep and clear, and he doesn't have to work hard at all to follow them. Perhaps she could care less about being followed.

On the other hand, Mindolluin is much closer to the salt water and gulls than Erech is.

True. We don't HAVE to revisit Erech. As long as that's where she was, for a looooong time. I'm less tied to Erech than I am to Edhellond, but even that isn't set in , er, stone.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Helen

THen we could do something like this:
Rugh follows Roheryn & Mellonin for some odd reason for many many miles. Many miles. OUt of his forest, etc, He doesn't know why, really, except (I dunno) maybe the elf-woman calls him, or he thinks he heard some sort of call, or something. (Ideas please. Maybe Gwyll haunts him.) Jorje trots along. Avarien follows the trails toward the old pass she used before. (Ringlo? GIlraen? I believe GIlraen was the stream Nimrodel lingered by...)

THey get close to Saethryd's newish cottage: still very eeermy. JOrje THEN fritzes out, (Maybe Rugh does too) and scares Roheryn who dumps Mellonin. RIght next to the eeermy cottage.

There are holes in it but it's a start.

I'm good with it, but what does Firefoot think? Rugh is her character....

[mark12_30]

THe other thing we can do, is just correct our outlook of where Nimrodel is-- GIlraen, or somewhere toward Edhellond or Erech or whatever; that should be easier to fix.

Then explain why Saethryd moved so far w-- eh, East; let that be that; and then just keep going. I don't mind re-situating Saethryd into Gondor if we can just extricate Nimrodel-- put her somewhere further west or southwest than Mindolluin, and I'll be happy. I can't imagine Amroth missing her that completely, starting out in Minas Tirith and she was just over the back of the hill, ya know?

But Avarien can cross the mountains however she likes, and then travel (cough) West to find Nimrodel. That'll do fine. Let's not kill our newly found momentum with a lot of backtracking and editing. Move Nimrodel, explain why Saethryd moved to Gondor, & I'm happy.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, I'm cool with that too. Celuien has already said she's okay with it. So okay, let's keep the momentum going, and have Nimrodel (map 45 now) near the source of the Gilraen. That way she has been consistently about 3,000 feet up, from the Paths of the Dead to near the Gilraen. I'm cool with that. That gives everybody a little farther to travel, which is fine too.

[mark12_30]

Sweet!

So who is next?