Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Brinn

Though if we wanted to be truly traditional, there would be no hunter or cobbler....and maybe not even a seer.

D'accord about the Hunter and Cobbler, but I think a Seer's the absolute minimum of gifteds we ever had, and I don't see how that role could be dispensed with while still balancing the wolves' advantage of knowledge over the innocents... Might be interesting to have a game with a Seer and no Ranger, though, which would make the Seer think twice or thrice about revealing early... Hmmm...

Generally, I've played in a number of highly experimental games including anything from secret roles to unexpected special events (*cough*Legate's last one*cough*) or both; all of them were competently handled by the respective mod and great fun to play, I'd regret to have missed any of them and would highly regret not having anything like them in the near future. (Come to think of it, the most 'traditional' game in terms of roles'n'rules I've played up to now probably was my first one, Mnemo's Cottage of Lost Play.) On the other hand, I've recently noticed a tendency among mods to outdo each other in terms of experimentality (what I've called the Special Rules Arms Race) - which isn't bad in itself, but could give newcomers who haven't seen anything else a skew idea of what a regular BD WW game is supposed to be like, conveying a false notion that 'anything goes'. So maybe a sort of SALT/START agreement for two or three games could be a good idea?

Originally Posted by wilwa

I think it'd also be a good idea to go a step further: that first time mods can only do a traditional game, and experimental ones should be left to those who have modded in the past (or at least who have played in a lot of games, like way more than just 6).

I've more or less suggested as much above, but I'm reluctant about making it a hard & fast rule - meaning it very much depends on the personality of the mod; e.g. Eönwë's first game (The Night Guard, no idea how many games he'd played before that) featured a highly innovative game design, but was very competently handled. But it would certainly be a good idea to have any mod candidate state what general kind of game they're intending to run so it can be discussed on this thread before they're starting their respective Admin Thread (on which the details can and should be discussed).

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Pitch

I've more or less suggested as much above, but I'm reluctant about making it a hard & fast rule - meaning it very much depends on the personality of the mod; e.g. Eönwë's first game (The Night Guard, no idea how many games he'd played before that) featured a highly innovative game design, but was very competently handled.

I wouldn't want to get too strict about that either– there's been quite a number of successful experimental games run by a newbie.

I agree it might be good to run some more traditional games for a while, if only so newbies can learn the ropes. Also, to put up the "WW FAQ" sticky thread that's been proposed from time to time, but never created.

[Blind Guardian]

@nerwens post

I was thinking of an Official Rules thread. Can I start it?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

I was thinking of an Official Rules thread. Can I start it?

Since mormegil is the mod of the parent forum, Middle-earth Mirth, I wonder if he shouldn't be the one to handle it. At any rate, it would take a mod to make the thread sticky.

[Blind Guardian]

Oh okay, go ahead. Can I start typing it up?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

Oh okay, go ahead. Can I start typing it up?

Look, no offence, BeiGe, but I think that would be best left to the vetarans. What I think is most needed is a clear statement of what the basic rules are, as played here– and you haven't played in a standard game yet.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by BG

Not counting noias game, if I play every game I can probably mod after Lottie. Sound good?

Do you mean Lommy? If you played in every mod's game on that list, then theoretically you would be eligible to mod after Inzil (since he signed up first). But first let's just try to sort out the issues at hand before making anything official.

Originally Posted by wilwa

I think it'd also be a good idea to go a step further: that first time mods can only do a traditional game, and experimental ones should be left to those who have modded in the past (or at least who have played in a lot of games, like way more than just 6).

That's a good idea, though I do agree with Pitch that it should be a looser rule. I think experienced players (depending on the person) would be able to handle an experimental game, even if it's their first. It's been successful many times before.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

And since we're on the topic of it, mine's definitely experimental and is a rather large game. So in answer to your question Brinn, I'm more or less waiting for a time when there will be about 19 people available to play.

Since Inzil wants to do a traditional game, perhaps you could switch places with him? Though maybe we should first figure out whether alona is going to mod at all before making any actual decisions.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

D'accord about the Hunter and Cobbler, but I think a Seer's the absolute minimum of gifteds we ever had, and I don't see how that role could be dispensed with while still balancing the wolves' advantage of knowledge over the innocents...

I didn't say I agree with having no seer, but there are still traditionalists around who might prefer it. Having only a ranger for a gifted is just about as basic of a game you can get. It's a good formula if it's only a very small game that's being played, which rarely happens here.

And yeah, having a mod around to help organise things and set up some official guidelines would probably be the best thing right now. If there's an actual list of guidelines/rules, it'll be easier to follow them. And newbies will know better what they're getting into. That goes for not only rules for who is modding, but general gameplay too. We've had issues with that as well, and while experienced players already know what is frowned upon and generally not allowed, the newbies don't. Making a sticky about general gameplay and rules would be really good to have and helpful for everyone involved.

[mormegil]

Boromir, apprised me of the situation; thank you sir. I don't normally dip into this thread as it usually runs fairly smooth. I am trying to get caught up on what is going on. However I do feel at this point with so many players and so many that have enough experience a minimum of 5 games should be played prior to modding.

I would like to see some changes potentially to the modding list and how that is managed too. I have been rather laissez-faire in my approach and it has worked but I wonder if some guidelines there would be helpful too. The only guideline we have ever established was to limit the number on the list to 4 that was to make it so it wouldn't get out of control. If people are signing up and continue to hold or pass on their turn this creates problems. Glirdan it seems that this is happening currently but rest assured you are not targeted as I've seen it before. The problems arise because those who are behind them are not planning on modding for a few weeks at the soonest and suddenly their turn is thrust upon them. Would something like if you are unable to make your turn you are off the list be reasonable?

As far as a FAQ or General Rules and Guidelines, I would be happy to have a sticky (closed?) thread for it but I would request somebody step forward to help me write it (by help me write it I am basically asking you to write the whole thing. I have been far too busy with work and my Masters program to spend much time here...on a side note I hope to make some time for a WW venture in the coming months but we will see). Possibly a group of veteran players get together and come up with a list or post and with some general consensus I will gladly post it.

You can send me PMs as I do stop by the Downs daily but don't dive into all threads.

[mormegil]

A side note and something for the group to consider if we do a General Guidelines. I will post it so that it says something like "READ BEFORE PLAYING WW'. As such, I think somewhere in the middle of the thread or near the bottom we should put a sentence indicating that they need to say a certain phrase indicating that they have read the post otherwise they will not be accepted. I believe it important for new players to read and understand the guidelines/rules before signing up.

[Morsul the Dark]

True, I think I had a fairly experimental game that was pretty good... it Was tough though. And that was after 3 games... But I think one needs to have played a few games and also shown an interest beyond a passing fancy... Modding is a big commitment.

Also:

Wow did I miss some drama yesterday!

[wilwarin538]

I am definitely willing to help make the list of rules.

[Macalaure]

Maybe we should create a thread to collect and discuss the rules we want to put down? (With a minimum number of games played to participate?)

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Maybe we should create a thread to collect and discuss the rules we want to put down? (With a minimum number of games played to participate?)

Good idea Mac. Please see here

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Since Inzil wants to do a traditional game, perhaps you could switch places with him? Though maybe we should first figure out whether alona is going to mod at all before making any actual decisions.

If alona can't be reached and Glirdan wants to wait for a time when more people would be able to play, I could go next. It will have a Tolkien connection.
It would be at least a week before I could start though, as I'm scheduled to be out of town for a work-related conference beginning next Monday.
Then again, maybe a new game ought to wait until the general WW guide gets hashed out fully on the other thread.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Then again, maybe a new game ought to wait until the general WW guide gets hashed out fully on the other thread.

I don't see that it needs to wait. I think this general guidelines may take a few days at least so there is no reason to postpone a game.

[Glirdan]

So I'm wondering. I've been keeping up with the general rules thread that's been started (would have posted something but everything I had thought of was already said....that's what you get for not going on the computer once a day ) and it seems like it has now just boiled down.

Do we want to start another game up? Or do we want to give it some time? Because I SHOULD be able to go by, oh, let's say Sunday or Monday? I'll leave it up to you guys.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Do we want to start another game up? Or do we want to give it some time? Because I SHOULD be able to go by, oh, let's say Sunday or Monday? I'll leave it up to you guys.

I could go for another one now. It's been long enough. I initially thought I would need to sit yours out, but the unfinished nature of the last game has me wanting to play.

[Kath]

If Glirdan's modding, I'm playing. Just saying, 'cause I'll forget to say otherwise, and it's important!

[Mithalwen]

For what little my opinion's worth, I can't see it being a problem - you are not exactly an unknown quantity but a Downer of long standing as well as a ww player and surely have the nous and fund of goodwill necessary to deal with any issues arising.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Do we want to start another game up? Or do we want to give it some time? Because I SHOULD be able to go by, oh, let's say Sunday or Monday? I'll leave it up to you guys.

I already gave my opinion that no more time is needed and another game can be formed at any time.

[wilwarin538]

Glirdy will likely be putting up his admin thread after he recovers from all his birthday celebrating. I sign up in advance, clearly.

[Glirdan]

Oy vey. Sorry I haven't really been around, it's been a really hectic week for me. So, just have to do some finishing touches and stuff, I'll have the admin thread up at some point today.

[Thinlómien]

Just letting you guys know I will be able to mod in late August/September like I said would, but I'm not sure about the exact timing, because Legate and a few of his friends are coming to Finland sometime then to and I'd rather not mod a game while he's here... As soon as they tell me when they're coming I can tell you when I can mod.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Nienna has had an utterly brilliant suggestion of a game premise she would like me to assist her with. So at whichever point she can end up on the mod list, that would be most delightful.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Nienna has had an utterly brilliant suggestion of a game premise she would like me to assist her with. So at whichever point she can end up on the mod list, that would be most delightful.

I wants! Oodles and oodles of wants!

[Rikae]

I've had an experimental (but Tolkien related) game in mind for a while, but I'd need to mod when school's out, so would it be possible to reserve January?
To those who might remember, this will be the afterlife-game I mentioned elsewhere, where the dead have their own part to play - so roles won't usually be revealed at death.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I've had an experimental (but Tolkien related) game in mind for a while, but I'd need to mod when school's out, so would it be possible to reserve January?
To those who might remember, this will be the afterlife-game I mentioned elsewhere, where the dead have their own part to play - so roles won't usually be revealed at death.

*drools* Yes, please.


ETA: So is Lommie next? Or Dun? The thread got all crazy there for a while so I'm not sure if that's where we are or not.

[Thinlómien]

I will receive my health-maintaining dose of Legate in the weekend of next week and he'll be here for about two weeks and I don't want to mod then. Thereby I'd prefer to have my modding turn starting around September 12th or a bit later. Which would mean Zil going next if that's ok for him and I think someone else going before me too. Volunteers? Alona? Nienna? Someone else?

[satansaloser2005]

I think Alona died (figuratively speaking, of course). Haven't heard from her on here in months.

*pokes Nienna and Dun with sharp sticks*

[Inziladun]

I don't remember if I was after Glirdan, or it was Nienna. I think I could have something up for a basic game by the end of the week though.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I don't remember if I was after Glirdan, or it was Nienna. I think I could have something up for a basic game by the end of the week though.

Ni is currently in Canada and will be unavailable for a while. I haven't heard from Alona in real life in months either, so Zil, I think you should take the reins.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Ni is currently in Canada and will be unavailable for a while. I haven't heard from Alona in real life in months either, so Zil, I think you should take the reins.

I think you mean the reign.

All hail Dun, great and merciful mod. *bows*

[Thinlómien]

I spammed Alona on Facebook and she said

I would love to [mod], but school starts up for me tomorrow and I'm working 5 days a week...I think I'm gonna have to pass until Thanksgiving break for now...

And now I'm going to nudge her to come and post that (or something else) here herself.

Fea, do you think Ni could mod after Zil so sometime in early(-ish) September? Or do we need a new volunteer?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I think you mean the reign.

All hail Dun, great and merciful mod. *bows*

It would be the reign if I meant that WW was something in need of a king or queen. Since I was thinking of it instead as a bucking wild horse, I was definitely within my rights to halter it and wish Zil good luck.

Lommy: I'll see if Ni wants to do that mildly nontraditional game she thought up next. Since I was going to be assisting anyway, even if she's a little busy at the onset it should work out.

[Folwren]

How many games does one have to play before being qualified to mod one? I'd be interested in modding one sometime or other in the future, eventually. Long enough in the future that I will have time to play a couple more before then.

-- Foley

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Folwren

How many games does one have to play before being qualified to mod one? I'd be interested in modding one sometime or other in the future, eventually. Long enough in the future that I will have time to play a couple more before then.

-- Foley

Well, you know Foley, even though SOME things may have changed since you last played, there are other members who have been around for awhile(ie. Rikae, Mac, Wilwa, myself and a few others) that know you and you're playing abilities.

I would not be opposed to adding Foley to the list. Anybody disagree??

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I have a great deal of faith in Foley (and always have in each thing she does), and if she feels overwhelmed, I volunteer to act as a sort of modgod-mentor for her to bounce ideas and issues off of.

[Thinlómien]

Foley, we know you have played several games and I'm thrilled to see a game modded by you - the narrations must be awesome! And if you distrust Fea as a co-mod feel free to ask me...

Modding list
Inzil (admin thread up)
someone - possibly Nienna?
Lommy
(Nienna if she didn't mod earlier)
---
Rikae in January
Folwren...?

I took Alona off the list, her time has kind of expired so if she wants to mod again she can sign up again.

[satansaloser2005]

I've only played with Foley the once, but I know she's been here for ages. I don't see a problem with her modding, and in fact I'm excited to play in her game.



Also, I would so love to mod in December/early January. It's not a personal time thing so much as a game theme thing, so I'm certainly flexible, but that's my preference. So if there's a hole in there somewhere when it comes closer I'd love to fill it.

[Nienna]

So as Fea and I both are going to be out of town for the entirety of the Labor Day weekend (Sept 2-6ish) I think it would be best if Lommy hosts her game first and then Fea and I can start up once that is finished.