WWJ IX: Psychotic Penguins: The Crossing of Helcaraxë

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Roa, you have largely based your thoughts on a guess that Boro did not list his two fellow penguins in a same category. I see no reason why he couldn't have done that. Also, I don't completely agree with you classifying Anguirel as Boro's suspect. To me he seems to fit better to the "unsure" group. You can of course put him in whatever category you like, but that's my view about this. I've provided these quotes before, but here they are once again.

"Anguirel, has popped in couple, said his say, nothing strange there." ~ Boro #33

"I don't know yet what to make of Anguirel, but Spawn's input is beneficial." ~ Boro #46 about why spawn looks innocent - note that he doesn't agree with me at this point

"Anguirel, I must say Spawns comments were very intriguing on Anguirel. At first it seemed to me like Anguirel was going off with what he had at the time, but good points have been raised against him. I'm going to hold off until he gets back." ~Boro #46

In the last quote Boro somewhat agrees with me, but doesn't really say that he'd be suspicious of Ang. When Anguirel did get back, Boromir didn't comment on that issue any further.

Originally Posted by phantom

Wow, Val is going nuts. Is that normal? I've only seen her once.

Last time I saw her this loud was when she was a wolf in the Wizard village, and I find her eagerness to lynch Anguirel quite worrying. This time we can be sure, though, that she's not attacking her fellow baddie trying to make herself look good...

[the phantom]

What, is Valier trying to guarantee two days of kills? If she keeps this up she will probably accomplish that.

Surely she must realize acting like this is going to make people want to be rid of her just to end it all? And if she is found innocent, we suddenly feel obligated to lynch Ang. But if we take her advice and lynch Ang and find him innocent, then we feel obligated to lynch Valier. If neither is guilty- oops.

Is that what you want, Val? You and Ang on the block? Lynch you today, and Ang tomorrow? I'll kill you today if you really want.

[Valier]

Originally Posted by Spawn

Last time I saw her this loud was when she was a wolf in the Wizard village, and I find her eagerness to lynch Anguirel quite worrying. This time we can be sure, though, that she's not attacking her fellow baddie trying to make herself look good...

*takes a quick break from protesting*


Actually I was only a WW that last day. I WAS an Ordo until then and I thought hey? why change your tactics now? that would have been really suspicious if I did that. And I was right about Roa, as I am about Ang now!! except this time the baddies don't have the option of turning me to their side. though I must say the baddies in this game have done a fair job at making me look bad. So yes I am going a little nuts and I don't care! The way Ang is reacting to my accusations is not unlike the way Roa acted when she was the EW and I accused her. I am sure Ang is the Emperor.

*goes back to picketing*

ANG IS BAD!

BAD! BAD! BAD!

EMPEROR, SHMEMPEROR !!

I'M NOT AFRAID OF BIRDS!

[Valier]

Originally Posted by tp

Is that what you want, Val? You and Ang on the block? Lynch you today, and Ang tomorrow? I'll kill you today if you really want.

if you like. but may I plead that you kill Ang today and me tomorrow. Just please give me the benefit of the doubt.

[Firefoot]

On Diamond:

In Naria's analysis post, Diamond is the only one that Naria really comes out and says looks innocent to her. Even Valier is basically, "I don't know, but she can be useful." Diamond "is sending up no red flags." Everyone else was somewhere between "I don't know" and "rather suspicious." This definitely caught my eye. I don't know how Naria would normally act, but I think that little idiosyncracies like this would be telling.

In Boro's first anaylsis post, he hardly mentions Diamond at all and says nothing about whether he's supsicious of her. In his much-cited post, she does appear in the same group as Naria, but I wouldn't put it past Boro to do this, I suppose... he might have figured on us guessing he would put wolves in different groups.

Diamond herself has been extremely contributive, but not very controversial in her posts. She tends to have been very fair and even-headed, even light-hearted at times. I have taken this for innocence, but now I'm starting to have doubts. She has posted enough suspicions not to be accused of neutrality, but she tends not to latch on to people, either (I'm not sure that this is really suspicious or not... I suppose that's how I normally play...). But if she were a penguin, it would explain somewhat why she has been so attached to the idea that penguins would come from different lists of Boro's.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Hysterical Valier

but may I plead that you kill Ang today and me tomorrow. Just please give me the benefit of the doubt.

Why does it matter? If you're sure of his guilt then why does it matter who we kill first?

If you want us to consider killing Ang first, you need to turn down the volume a bit and do a comprehensive Roa-analysis-style attack post on Boro and Naria's connection to Ang, as well as Ang's votes and words since the beginning of the village.

[the phantom]

I find Diamond's posts 384 & 387 interesting.

She is basically trying to set up two deaths in a row. You could sum her up by saying- "Today, lynch Ang. If that's wrong, then Val is obviously guilty."

How convenient.

The voting stands-
Ang for Di
Di for Ang

I'm considering tacking my vote onto Di.

[Valier]

I like to leave the Roa-style analysis to Roa. I see no reason to restate everything that has been said about Boromir, Naria, or Ang. villagers have already done a great job on that and I don't see how me doing the same will help. I have stated before and in case you didn't know I DO NOT DO ANALYSIS when I do try, they make no sense and they get pooh-poohed for being wild or lacking and sure if you want to kill me today just so you can see go ahead, but as my dieing wish I say you then take out Ang tomorrow. The only reason I ask for him to go before me is that I really want to make it to the end of a game. I have never accomplished this feat yet.

[the phantom]

I like to leave the Roa-style analysis to Roa.

What an insane idea. As if Roa could do a Roa-style post.

when I do try, they make no sense and they get pooh-poohed

I know, I know. That's why I want you to do it. I've really been wanting to pooh-pooh someone all day today.

The only reason I ask for him to go before me is that I really want to make it to the end of a game. I have never accomplished this feat yet.

Aww...

Tell you what. If you really want to survive and win a game then I'll arrange for you to be a Wolf with me sometime. Does that work for you?

[the phantom]

Less than 2 & 1/2 hours till the deadline.

What are people thinking?

[Firefoot]

Okay, I've been doing some thinking, and I don't think I want to lynch Valier today (gasp). I'll be convinced that she's guilty and then she says something that completely throws me off.

The case against Anguirel is not strong enough for me to vote for him, and I'm not convincing myself, even after going back over some of his posts.

Spawn I'm sort of 50-50 about. She could be a wolf... but she's definitely not my top suspect.

Roa, I think is probably innocent.

There doesn't seem to be much of a case against Encai - certainly not enough to vote off of.

That leaves Diamond, and I've been thinking about her for a while now... she's my pick. I may or may not be back on before the deadline; if I am it would be extremely close. It's likely that I won't be.

++Diamond

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

As to Di, I'm more worried about her post #387:

"If Ang, Spawn, and Valier all died innocent, would it be too late to start worrying about Roa?" ~Di

Looks like she has basically decided her three, almost four, lynching candidates beforehand which is not very wise in a village like this since most or all people on her list are bound to be innocent.

I haven't really suspected Di because I think she has behaved quite normally, but I have a while now, so I can as well dig up some quotes.

"Anyway, like Valier [Diamond] seems to eccentric to be a wp. But this I do find odd: (quotes Di's Seer plan in her post #12 and explains why he thinks it isn't a good idea)" ~Boro #33

"And Diamond has just confused me so far. The cobbler business seemed awkward to me, I'm glad she came out and explained it more, but she's not done anything to make me feel like she's innocent like the "innocent looking" group." ~Boro #46

"Diamond- She seems to be acting per usual. Nothing to send up red flags yet." ~Naria #298

I don't find those quotes very telling. I think Boro's quotes look more like he would be seriously making a foundation for a possible future case against Diamond, but who knows. Considering that in Naria's post #298 she more or less suspected everyone, I wonder if she would have classified only her penguin colleague innocent.


I'll vote as soon as I have made my mind.

[Valier]

I am thinking why is it so hard for a few of you to believe that Anguirel is possibly the Emperor?

Originally Posted by TP

I know, I know. That's why I want you to do it. I've really been wanting to pooh-pooh someone all day today.

That's uncalled for! you want me to sit here and go through everything just so you can pooh all over it? Right....

Originally Posted by TP

Tell you what. If you really want to survive and win a game then I'll arrange for you to be a Wolf with me sometime. Does that work for you?

No it does not work for me!! I would rather win the game as an innocent then a foul fowl any day! By the way Phantom try not to be such a jerk. I know what I am doing is not exactly helpful, but I see no other way to get people to listen to me. I don't see how you can all of a sudden support Ang's little Diamond crusade....that is what he wants!!!

[Encaitare]

Sorry for having to leave so abruptly before; I totally forgot I had to go to the orthodontist and had to get dressed and run out the door.

An idea I had whilst having metal tools poked about in my mouth: I believe that Ang is not a WP because he kept going with his suspicion of Diamond all along. A lone WP would probably try to avoid attention and go along with the general consensus of guilt, which until a while ago was Valier. It could be that he was making a very risky move and hoping to draw everyone to his side (which seems to have happened in some cases, with all these votes for Diamond), but again, that is a big risk and not guaranteed to save him. Plus, if Di really is innocent, it'll look terrible for him -- a chance I don't think a WP would take.

Current Voting

Diamond: 2 (Anguirel 1, Firefoot 3)
Anguirel: 1 (Diamond 2)

Originally Posted by tp

Tell you what. If you really want to survive and win a game then I'll arrange for you to be a Wolf with me sometime. Does that work for you?

EDIT: Cross posted with Val.

[Firefoot]

Valier, you're taking phantom too seriously. Never take the phantom seriously.

[Valier]

Votes so far

Anguirel-->Diamond
Diamond-->Anguirel
Roa_Aoife-->Spawn
Firefoot-->Diamond
Valier-->Valier

You know if you guys kill Diamond today do you really think Ang is going to kill the Phantom or myself? No! He will let this madness continue for another day.

SO I PURPOSE THAT YOU ALL VOTE OR RETRACT YOUR VOTES AND VOTE FOR ME!!! HOW IS KILLING DIAMOND TODAY GOING TO HELP? KILL ME NOW AND SAVE ME FROM HAVING TO DO THIS ALL AGAIN TOMORROW!! THEN WHEN YOU SEE I AM INNOCENT YOU CAN HOPEFULLY TRUST ME ENOUGH TO VOTE FOR ANG.


++VALIER

[Encaitare]

Hmmm... I was thinking about what Phantom did yesterday, telling us who he was going to Hunt. It was a very good idea, but obviously did not work out as planned. Perhaps it would work better if our beloved shadow could hint in some way towards his choice for toNight without telling us outright?

Originally Posted by Val

By the way Phantom try not to be such a jerk.

Nearly 4 years of arrogance... I think it's a bit late to try and change him now, hon.

Wait -- I just saw Val's latest post. Did Roa really vote for Spawn? It was in a quote box so I wasn't sure. If Spawn does not come back to verify I guess it's up to our Mod Gods to decide.

[Firefoot]

Valier, if you're innocent, killing you is not going to help us.

[Valier]

Neither is killing an innocent Diamond, which I feel strongly that she is! The only way you will know if I am right is to kill AngEmperor

[Encaitare]

Okay... I was going to vote for Valier but now she reeks less of penguin and more of sheer insanity. Val, if you're so convinced of Ang's guilt, why do you not vote for him? He already has a vote. You make no sense.

Diamond may get my vote now just because it's what Val does not want.

EDIT: cross-posted with Valier

[Valier]

I voted for myself because everyone has been talking of killing someone other than Ang and I would hate to have to do this all over again tomorrow. If others will agree to vote for Ang I will switch my vote to him, if not then I stand with my suicide vote because I am convinced that Diamond is as innocent as I am.

Edit: I would rather die than see Dia die today

[Encaitare]

Originally Posted by Val

If others will agree to vote for Ang I will switch my vote to him, if not then I stand with my suicide vote because I am convinced that Diamond is as innocent as I am.

[emphasis mine]

If I didn't know better, I'd say there were two cobblers in this village...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Encai

I believe that Ang is not a WP because he kept going with his suspicion of Diamond all along. A lone WP would probably try to avoid attention and go along with the general consensus of guilt, which until a while ago was Valier.

Perhaps, but a WP has to avoid also flip-flopping and bandwagoning. Sticking to one suspect removes the inconvenient problem for a Werething to find new innocents to suspect. I don't think Anguirel can look much worse even if we lynched Diamond and she turned out to be innocent...

Originally Posted by Encai

If Spawn does not come back to verify I guess it's up to our Mod Gods to decide.

I don't think I'm authorized to decide whether that is a vote or not. I must admit that I was a bit confused with the pronouns there... who did Roa refer to? Was that her vote or did she quote Di's vote from yesterDay or what?

I seriously should be going now, but I think I'll stay for a while to observe this madness that's going on.

After that I probably vote for Ang.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by me

I know, I know. That's why I want you to do it. I've really been wanting to pooh-pooh someone all day today.

Originally Posted by Val

That's uncalled for!

Oh, good grief.

Please tell me that you are able to recognize statements made in jest.

Originally Posted by Val

By the way Phantom try not to be such a jerk.

Obviously, you can't tell when I'm joking.

Come on now Val. My statements are so silly/absurd/out-of-place that they couldn't possibly be serious.

Your uber-reactions are putting you on thin ice with me, Val.

Originally Posted by Valier

I don't see how you can all of a sudden support Ang's little Diamond crusade....that is what he wants!!!

That's all you want too, isn't it.

Current voting.

Ang for Di
Di for Ang
FF for Di
Val for Val

[Encaitare]

Originally Posted by Spawn

I don't think I'm authorized to decide whether that is a vote or not.

Hah, my bad -- I meant Roa would verify, of course.

Phantom, apparently, is not counting Roa's quasi-vote.

[Thinlómien]

Roa's vote will count, since she's obviously just messed up with the voting, quoting instead of bolding.

ROA, if for some reason you didn't try to vote spawn, you still have your retraction left.

Please be careful when voting.

[Thinlómien]

Anguirel-->Diamond
Diamond-->Anguirel
Roa_Aoife-->Spawn
Firefoot-->Diamond
Valier-->Valier

Just to clear this...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Thanks, Lommy. And here's my vote.

++Anguirel

Good Night!

[Encaitare]

Diamond or Valier? Valier or Diamond? Which of these lucky ladies ought to receive my vote?

Good cases have been made against/about Diamond by Ang (of course ), Firefoot, and Spawn. With these analyses she can be seen in a suspicious light.

Then again, Valier is irritating me with her fervor. I don't think she's a WP, but then again, we don't need no crazies in this here village.

Yeah. I don't think Val's a penguin, and our whole purpose here is to find the penguins, not the loonies.

++ DIAMOND

[Encaitare]

Cross-posted with Spawn, so here's the current voting stats:

Diamond: 3 (Ang 1, Firefoot 4, Encai 7)
Anguirel: 2 (Diamond 2, Spawn 6)
Spawn: 1 (Roa 3)
Valier: 1 (Valier 5)

[Valier]

Well since my vote for myself seems to not be working I switch to the Great Emperor

--Valier

++EmperorAnguirel


I know this will probably do no good but I had to try and I will again tomorrow.... Sorry Diamond...

[Encaitare]

Originally Posted by Val

I know this will probably do no good but I had to try and I will again tomorrow.... Sorry Diamond...

If it does turn out that Diamond is innocent, I have no doubts that Ang will be at the top of many people's suspect lists... so don't worry.

[Valier]

Ya but Enca wouldn't it be faster if we just kill Ang today? Just leave Dia for today and you will see I am no Loon!!!

[Roa_Aoife]

Back! With a short time to spare!

Spawn, if you'll carefully read my posts, you'll see that I put that big disclaimer on my whole "narrowing down the list" idea. I said quite clearly that it was based on an assumption on what Boromir might have done, and that I was unaware if this was the truth or not. But it's just as good an idea as any.

Also, if you'll note, that last quote you have from Boromir about Ang is directly under that statment that he was listing the people he suspected and would likely vote for. If you're going to disprove my theory, pay attention to what you're reading. I provided a link to that post in a previous answer to you. #46, and I'm not linking it again.

I find it odd that you go about "pooh-poohing" (to use Valier's phrase) my list now, when you're one of the few being singled out by it. The same list regarding Boromir was up before, but you said nothing then. Nervous to be in a spotlight?

So, then, to look about, I'm leaning towards Valier's innocense at this point. She's kind of acting the way she was in DW when she figured out I was the EW. Just so everyone clearly knows, I turned her after her crazy case against me. So, I'm inclined to think she's innocent. However, I'm not wholly inclined to believe she is right about Ang. I did find some strange things about him in the last analysis of him that I did- things which he never answered, by the way.

For now, my vote for Spawn stands, though I don't want to see Diamond die, and my suspicion of Firefoot remains. But, for heavens sake, I went through all that work to narrow down the list for everyone, and I'm at least going to take advantage of it, if no one else will.

[the phantom]

+ + Firefoot

If we're wrong today, my Hunter pick will be...
Valier

My Ranger protect would be...
Spawn

See you tomorrow.

Or not.

[Valier]

Why Oh why would you vote for Firefoot now of all days Phantom, when she isn't even a lynching candidate? Someone please change their vote to Ang, before the Day is over!!!!

[the phantom]

I voted for Firefoot because my first choice was no longer on the board.

I wanted to kill you and then Hunt Ang during the night. I thought that would solve as many problems as anything.

[Valier]

Voting for Ang now will solve all our problems!!!!!!

[Roa_Aoife]

*sugh* Alright, I don't want to see Diamond dead yet, and maybe this will finally shut Valier up.

--Spawn

++Ang

I realize that if Ang is innocent I'm in the frying pan tomorrow, but I don't care. I didn't have a strong case on Spawn anyways and it's better to count for something.

[the phantom]

- - Firefoot

+ + Ang