The Lingering Darkness Planning/Discussion Thread

[Elora]

I'll be leaving Barrold out where he is so that Kaldir can bump into him and Toby can overhear the conversation.


Naiore will be moving to a safer spot near Bree in the early hours of the morning, so that should Barrold's house be searched she is not found. She will leave Vanwe behind, and return to collect Vanwe, Barrold, Avanill and set off.

I have a plan for Vanwe, should the Rangers come and search Barrold's house. She'll still be disorientated. I ask that she won't be found in that search, however she will witness the Rangers looking which will terrify her (given her aversion to legitmate representatives of authority).

Barrold will deflect the search of the cellar, secreting her away in a nasty place (a filthy cupboard somewhere in the house). Then, once the search turns up nothing (aside from the missing silver dinner service someone had taken from their house a few months ago), Barrold will gather the supplies, recruit Avanill and leave with Vanwe for Naiore's bolthole.

[Everdawn]

Speaking of thugs, where is Avanill? Did he enter the Inn Everdawn?
--------------------

Ah! Yes he did!

[Nerindel]

Thanks Elora that helps alot,
for that to work we will have to find a distraction for Léspheria for she would surely sense and find Vanwe if they where in the same building, she would also know if Barrold was lying he is man and much easier to read. hmm.. yes I will have to think on that one!!

EverdawnAn elf in Bree should stand out in Avanill's mind, as it is not common to see one in Bree let alone one in the company of four rangers. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Thanks for the clarification folks, I was wondering how we were going to move on from this point. Always nice to have it down in green & black to refer to!

Nerindel That was a good way to get the rangers moving again. Many thanks! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Ealasaide, are you out there? Methinks the real world has swept you up! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[ October 05, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[Ealasaide]

Hi, gang! Sorry it has been so long since my last post...real life has stepped ALL over my writing time this week. I don't think I have been able to sit down at the computer for more than five minutes to check my e-mail since sometime on Monday. I hope I haven't held things up too badly.

I PROMISE a post from Kaldir this evening. Hopefully, I will get something in for Benia as well.

Nerindel thanks for the Bio, I will look it over right now & get back to you via PM if I have any comments. The new bios on the thread look great, by the way.

[piosenniel]

Your tenacious fan checking in once to again to tell you how much I am enjoying the development of the story!

[img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[Elora]

Piosenniel Aw shucks, we're blushing! [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Ealasaide I hope all is well. We're patient souls and Barrold is perfectly happy to chatter to himself in the dark! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Actually, the delay works in favour of the story. Naiore will move herself and leave word for Barrold in a cunning fashion. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Nerindel]

Hey everyone,
Met Dúlrain [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Name: Dúlrain

Age: 39

Race: Man (Dunedain)

Gender: Male

Weapons: Arthedain Broad sword, a jewel encrusted companion sword, given to him by a wealthy young woman in gratitude of his assistance when she and her companions were waylaid by bandits on the west road, he also carries a belt knife and a crude long bow, his dark green quiver hangs from his belt rather than his back. Dúlrain carries a second sword, which he wields only against orcs, it once belonged to a close friend who was killed by orcs at Raven Falls (or so he believes).

[b]Appearance:[B] Dúlrain is tall, lean and muscular like most of his kin, his hair is raven black and sits to his shoulders, He is darkly tanned and his eyes are a soft, kind, gentle grey. Dúlrain is lucky enough not to be marred with many battle scars infact the only prominent one is a scar left from an arrow wound to his left shoulder.

Like most of his brethren he clads himself in browns and greens of the forest, His dark Brown boots and cloak are well worn and weather beaten from his many travels.

Personality/Strength/Weaknesses: Dúlrain is intelligent, strong willed, brave, confident and practical, he speaks his mind when he feels it is necessary and is generally of good humour though it is said by many that his humour has grown somewhat Sarcastic and dry over the years. To those he calls friends he is loyal and trustworthy. He is generally undaunted by the evils of the world believing that good always prevails. He is loyal to his king and is always completely at his disposal, he never doubted that Aragorn would take his rightful place as King of the reunited kingdoms.

Dúlrain's strengths are his expert swordsmanship, his speed and his agility, these being the main reason why he bares little scar of battle, he is proficient with bow and his eyes are keen. He prefers to leave tracking to others, but his speed and agility make him an excellent scout and he is always cautious, ready for what ever may be around the bend!

Dúlrain's handsome features and soft gentle eyes have always attracted women to him, giving him the reputation of being a bit of a ladies man, but he is not arrogant with it. Those who know him know that he has a weakness for women in distress and will willingly risk his life to protect the fairer sex.


History: Dúlrain was raised by his father in the wilds of the north, a dangerous and harsh upbringing that has made him the ranger he is today. Dúlrain has been fortunate to have rode and fought in the company of both Amandur and Hanasían.

Dúlrain was with Amandur when they met the remnants of the battle of Raven falls, when Elendir and his company had failed to return at the expected hour, Amandur and a few others, Dúlrain included where sent to see what had happened to them. Dúlrain was concerned as a close childhood friend rode in that company. On rendezvousing with Elendir's company he was dismayed to hear that his friend was lost, but although he search for his friends body he never found it, but he did find his kins sword and his blood soaked cloak torn and discarded by the river. The war ended his search and he rode to Gondor with the grey company.

After the war he joined Hanasían and aided the Rangers of Ithilien in their search for the criminals of the dark tower. He knows nothing of Kaldir's capture or his years of imprisonment in Mordor, nor that his friend yet lives and is following the path of a bounty hunter. Dúlrain believes Kaldir was killed by the orcs at Raven Falls and his body was lost to the river.

He was with Hanasian when they hunted the remnants of Sauron's elite followers, he had wavered and stayed his bow as a beautiful elven woman ran from the hut he and the archers of Ithilien had surrounded, it was only her cold callous laughter, which chilled him to the bones, that reminded him of the monster that she really was, the pain and torment she had caused to so many came flooding back and even as she used one of her companions as a shield he let loose his arrows angered at his hesitation.

For the past six months Dúlrain has watched the south downs for signs of Naiore the last of Saurons Revennor's and the most deadly and elusive of all his servants it is said and having seen and tracked her for many years he does not refute these claims.

While on guard he caught sight of one who had long been thought lost, but as he approached the figure disappeared, he searched long but found nothing, but when he decided to leave he saw the man again and was sure that it was Hanasíans father, but again as he approached he disappeared so he rode at once to find Hanaísan.

he found Hanasian just Southeast of Bree, and told him what he had seen, Hanasían then bid him to ride to Bree and join with Amandur and a few others of their brethren, telling him that the trail for Naiore had again grown warm.

[Imladris]

Nice to see Maethor made it, I was worried with all the villianous thugs about!

LOL, Hilde.

About Vanwe: she had a conection with Hanasian, right? Well, from what I understand, wasn't that conection rather important to story? What will become of that?

I'm sorry if I'm being annoying, but I just have to know!

[Ealasaide]

Okay, Elora, I've posted with Kaldir. He and Barrold are alone outside Bree. I started the conversation, but since I wasn't sure how to proceed with Barrold, I left it open for you to carry on.

Basically, I see Kaldir as trying to get as much information as possible out of Barrold without getting hostile or giving too much of his own business away.

[Elora]

Her connection with Hanasian was of some importance, but Hanasian's absence is not insurmountable even we do miss Snowdog's wonderful contributions. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Hanasian was the first and singular authority figure that she trusted. That trust bond was strong enough for Vanwe to consider offering Hanasian all she knew of her mother.

I had planned to use that bond as impetus for Vanwe to choose to throw her lot in with Hanasian's Ranger companions later on into the story. Now I will have to find a way for Vanwe to build a bond with another character at some later point.

I anticipate doing this once Vanwe reaches Imladris. She narrowly avoids Kaldir, only to fall into the waiting watch over Imladris. Elladan and Elrohir will naturally wish to question her, particularly as she seems to be in cohoots with her mother. She will also encounter her father for the first time there.

In short, it will be a tumultuous time for the Elf and those friendships will be one of the few things that will help her find her way through.

My sketchy thoughts on this have Vanwe forging a deeper bond with Lespheria at Imladris (something I had planned on doing all along) and also forming a bond with another Ranger. Otherwise, the prospect of joining a group of Rangers would be too implausible for Vanwe to consider. She has learnt to avoid those in power, for they can hurt to most. Such is her lesson from the Haradwaithe.

Hence the friendship with one Ranger will be instrumental in Vanwe moving past this as she needs to if she is to make her life in the North.

Does that help?

Nerindel, great profile. Nice to meet Dulrain. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Everdawn]

EverdawnAn elf in Bree should stand out in Avanill's mind, as it is not common to see one in Bree let alone one in the company of four rangers.

I was thinking about that. Thanks for pointing it out... i am biding my time. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Imladris]

That does help, Elora. I had thought you wanted Vanwe to join the Rangers, but I didn't exactly realize just how you were going to do it. Thanks a bunch.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Nice volley there between Kaldir and Barrold. Very enjoyable reading!

[Ealasaide]

Thanks, Hilde! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Question: Does anyone know what the exchange rate is in Middle Earth? What would the equivalent values be for one gold piece, one silver piece, etc, in, say, US Dollars?

I'm a little boggled, here.

[Elora]

I have no earthly idea, Easalsaide (good work too, btw [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ). I know this is a matter of conjecture.

Perhaps we could come up with a rough scale. Excuse my calcularions and I can't guarantee that they're in USD as I'm Australian and my mind works in ASD [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] (Lame joke there, folks).

OK. Let's take the rough prices for metals

1 gold coin = $50

1 silver coin = $10

I copper coin = $1

That's just off the top of my head. If we wanted to, we could decide value by looking at current metal prices and caluculating on ounce weight of the coins.... but who is to say that's any more valid than the above scale?

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Ealasaide]

That scale works for me! Thanks, Elora!

I will go by that Rate of Value henceforth. (Actually, I think I will go back & edit one of my Kaldir posts with Tupper. I had no idea what the exchange rate was when I wrote it, so the dialogue is WAY off.)

[Elora]

I'm a little hesitant to impose an arbitrary value and I'm sure others will have their own estimations of the worth of varying coinage.

Just wanted to say that I don't expect you to back track and edit just based on my estimations. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I was just tossing out something, grist for the mill so to speak.

[Everdawn]

I'm Australian and my mind works in ASD

Ditto, im in Brisbane.

I had no idea what the exchange rate was when I wrote it, so the dialogue is WAY off.)

Yeah, have you seen one of my posts, where Avanill is told by the old man to sell the potion at a price? I look at it now and it is unbelieveable. Ill have to go back and fix it up. Now that we have a rough list it will make things easier, (espesh. for Avanill who is a blackmarket trader) Thanks Elora! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ October 07, 2003: Message edited by: Everdawn ]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Sounds good to me too Elora. Hmm, I wonder how much it would cost for a cup of coffee? One copper? Outragous! Why in my day you could get at least 3 cups for that! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Nerindel]

arg! 60gold = $3000 and Amandur thought he got a got a good deal [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] I think I might change that, info on Barrold isn't worth that much [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

But thanks for the scale that will help alot [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] by the way have we decided on how much the bounty is for Naiore?

ok I've got side tracked again, what I was going to say was that I have posted again [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Toby is following and eavesdropping on Barrold and Kaldir, Lespheria and Amandur have left the inn and are watching the house where Lespheria believes she sensed Naiore.

perhaps Rauthain and Maethor could run into the two scoundled that both Ealasaide and I mentioned in our posts, and pump them for info! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

I am still perplexed as what to do about Léspheria, She has not sensed Vanwe so she must be unconscious, but when she regains consiousness and witnesses the rangers searching the house, when Barrold returns, Lespheria will have to be else where?

hmm perhaps Naiore can throw her a bone? yes! perhaps as they prepare to enter the house, Léspheria senses Naiore further afield drawing her away from the house, Oh yes, perhaps it is Léspheria that leads Kaldir to Naiore, just a thought. Ealasaide and Elora your input might be helpful here [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ October 07, 2003: Message edited by: Nerindel ]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I was also trying to figure out were to go from here.

Perhaps Toby could overhear Barrold grumbling regarding having to meet Her on Bree Hill (such a nasty climb in the dark) and offer the info. to Amandur just before Rauthain & Maethor arrive. I imagine Amandur could sight him walking home, and Toby would also have opportunity to let slip Kaldir’s location.

Amandur & Léspheria could let Rauthain & Maethor know they are headed (to find Naiore) before setting off.

Rauthain & Maethor could make the ruckus at the old farmstead!

Please note that Rauthain would be interested to know whether Lespheria had felt Vanwe’s presence. If she hadn’t that would give him a reason to break into the farmhouse (to see that there had not been a murder) and thereby frighten Vanwe in her delirium.

Could Naiore have managed to get Vanwe in the closet earlier and Barrold head straight to meet her after disposing of the horse and bumping into Kaldir?

Just another angle.

[Ealasaide]

I am getting lost. Please tell me if this is correct:

Kaldir has finished speaking with Barrold & is on his way back to his camp.

Barrold has just re-entered Bree by the west gate.

Toby Longholes is still outside of Bree's west gate, having barely missed being caught by Kaldir.

Naiore is holed up somewhere on Bree Hill.

Benia & Gilly are in Kaldir's camp on the north outside of Bree.

Amandur, Lespheria are watching Barrold's house. (Which presents a problem... how will Barrold get Vanwe out if the house is being watched?)

Rhauthain, Maethor, Dulrain, & Avanill are all at the Prancing Pony.

Vanwe is in Barrold's cellar.

Did I miss anyone?

From here we need (not necessarily in order):
1) Avanill to hook up with Barrold et al.

2) Barrold needs to fetch Vanwe & move her to where Naiore is waiting.

3) Naiore finds out where Menecin is & changes plans, heading for Rivendell rather than the Shire.

4) Barrold raids Tallas' supplies.

5) Rangers raid empty house.

6) Naiore sets off for Rivendell, followed by Kaldir, then the Rangers.

7) Kaldir needs to fetch his horse & prisoners before setting off after Naiore.

Is this what is happening? If I have gotten something wrong, please let me know. We need to get Naiore on the Road to Rivendell!

[ October 07, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaide ]

[Elora]

That's my grasp of the situation too Easalaide. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Barrold will organise Vanwe when he returns. Nerindel's idea of Naiore luring her and Amandur away to allow Barrold access to sort things out below works.

Then again, without a reason to search, perhaps Vanwe could overhear voices and the bootsteps of Rangers in her confusion down in the cellar. She won't be very conscious, so the sounds will merge with nightmare.

I plan to have Naiore on her way by sundown of the next day, hopefully earlier.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Does this mean Elora, that the rangers need to get out of there before Barrold arrives, or is he coming in between groups of rangers -if Amandur goes with Lespheria- or when Amandur is alone waiting for Maethor and Rauthain. Perhaps they should leave before he arrives, so it is easier for him to do the needful.

[Elora]

Sorry Hilde... I've been a little distracted radically reworking the plot planning for my own work. ( [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] )

I think it best to keep it simple....

Provided the Rangers don't rifle through the house and cellar, Vanwe can remain where she is. That way, Barrold only has to arrive if it is necessary for the thug to speak with Lespheria or the Rangers. Provided that he doesn't trip over his own feet on his way back through Bree, that should be easy to arrange.

If that is the case, then that should make for an interesting exchange. If it is not necessary for Barrold to have a verbal exchange, then Barrold will certainly note that some has been looking about and be none too pleased about it.

In the first scenario, I will need to post soon to place Barrold where he needs to be for the story to move forward. If this is the option that people prefer, then please let me know.

If not, then I'll post for Barrold after the Rangers have searched around (but not through the cellar) and take him into the following morning when he will start to organise supplies.

Does that make more sense? I hope so, as today I have been confusing myself left, right and centre. Would make for a nice change.

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Do you have any preference Nerindel or Imladris? It doesn’t matter so much to me as long as I know which it is.

One thing though that I do have trouble with is the idea that the rangers could search a house and not realize a cellar is there. If the house is locked (padlocked on the outside of the door) and shuttered, the rangers could conceivably leave without a search, as it would appear no one was at home. But then again to my mind, it depends on if they think Vanwe or her body might be there.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

How about this senerio?

The rangers meet up at Ferny's and wait in the shadows, (They had seen the geldings prints and Rauthain recognizes Ferny boot and stride as the one with the horse an the other side of town)

Barrold returns home and the ranger’s question him. He offers to show them his house to get them off his back.

During the search Barrold places himself in front of a piece of beaded wainscoting that hides the entrance to the secret compartment of the cellar.

When ranger’s get to close he mentions how another of his associates asked him to get rid of a horse today (trying to throw them off). He gives them a name of another thug.

The rangers ask to see the cellar and he takes them to an outside entrance to the main part of the cellar.

The rangers then are outside, when Léspheria who had remained outside feels Naiore off toward Bree hill, and they leave.

If you want Léspheria to have left earlier, the rest of the rangers could go after the guy Barrold mentioned, but they would want someone to keep on eye on Barrold (perhaps the ranger Vanwe gets to know). But all this would make it difficult for the rangers who are left to catch the trail again.

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[Nerindel]

ok to make life easier I am going to edit my last post, so the rangers are searching Bree for sign or word of Naiore, with Léspheria and Amandur searching the south side of town and Rauthain and Maethor searching the north side, eventually meeting up in the middle of town, having found nothing.

Dúlrain will come across master Longholes and bring him before Amandur, where he will spill the beans on Kaldir and Barrolds conversation, this should bring them to morning.

They will then force Toby to take them to Barrolds hide out, but Both Barrold and Vanwe will already be gone, believing Naiore already fled, they head back into the woods to pick up her trail.

instead of Naiores trail they find Kaldir's and Knowing that he too searches for Naiore they follow his trail, that way we are back on track, Kaldir tracking Naiore et al and The rangers tracking Kaldir et al.

The rangers can then split up when Tallas is attacked, Rauthain, Maethor and Dúlrain continueing on as Léspheria and Amandur go to find Tallas.

Does this sound plausable to everyone???

*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*

oops sorry Hilde it looks like we where puzzling over the same thing, But I do not think that having Léspheria near the house will work she would sense Vanwe's sudden fear and apprehension as the Rangers searched the house.

As for sensing Naiore I have decided that Naiore is too far away, It has been noted the Lespheria's abilities are giving her an unfair advantage, so I have decided to limit them, she can only sense the emotions of those near by, ok [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

As for Barrolds place, perhaps Rauthain and Maethor can search the grounds of the farm (unaware as yet that it belongs to Barrold)find it in darkness and disrepair an assume it abandoned, this way Vanwe could over heard some of their conversation regarding their hunt for her and her mother. *Shrugs* just a thought.

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Nerindel ]

[Ealasaide]

Sounds good to me, everyone!

I will have to do some pondering & figure out how Kaldir will find Naiore, et al, and get back on her trail before the Rangers. At the moment I am thinking that he will look for Barrold Ferney at a place he has been known to conceal fugitives in the past. There he will find evidence of Naiore, but she will have already moved on. He will follow her trail from there. And the Rangers will follow his trail.

Right now, though, Kaldir is heading back to his camp. That will give you all a chance to get your action taken care of before I mobilize him again sometime the next day. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Imladris]

Maybe we should have Vanwe and Barrold already gone somehow, if that would work. Because right now, it just seems to me that if the Rangers don't find that cellar and are so easily fooled by that Barrold, that would just make them all dunces. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this just seems so unranger-like to me. Cellars usually have dirt floors, I'm sure there would be some kind of track (but I could be wrong, I'm not a ranger...just some poor girl from Mundania).

Or maybe Elora can somehow have Vanwe creep out and run right into Barrold again, or maybe even her mother, to create a little suspense in the story. Or have her slip out, have Barrold show up at the hourse, find her gone and then he has to deal with the rangers, and maybe the other bad guy (Everdawn's character) can run into Vanwe. This might create a little suspense for the reader as well (What will happen to Vanwe?).

These are all just my thoughts on the matter and I don't know if they are good or not.

Edit: I forgot that Vanwe is tied up, but I'm sure that a pice of broken pottery could cut the ropes, or even her little carving knife if she still has it.

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Imladris ]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

If Vanwe were able to get away and Avanill catch her (in her current state) it would be a excellent opportunity for Avanill to get into the thick of things!. It does seem that she is in no condition to escape at the moment though.

Nerindel & Ealasaide – A couple of questions…how would the rangers recognize Kaldir’s trail if they saw it unless they caught a glimpse of him as well? Should that be part of the plan? Otherwise they would have to go back and pick it up from where he was spotted. And would Benia & Gilly be with him? Also am I correct in that you are proposing that Dulrain, Maethor & Rauthain go after Naiore, and will or will not Léspheria & Amandur bump into Avanill & Barrold. en route to Tallas.

I really don’t think it is plausible to have our rangers tracking in the woods at night. They are good but not super human! It be dark out dare! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[Imladris]

I totally agree with you Hilde, about the rangers tracking in the dark...even Aragorn didn't want to do that. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

About Vanwe...Elora, I know this is your character, but may I offer a suggestion? It appears that she is gaining strength. When people are desperately determined to do something, it seems as if they find like an inner strength or something (that sounds really hokey-pokey there, but I'm thinking right now of the chase of Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli). That's my suggestion.

[Ealasaide]

I find that I have to agree with Hilde & Imladris that we can't have the Rangers looking like idiots by not finding the basement or by letting themselves be fooled so easily by the likes of Barrold Ferney. Seems to me that the more Ferney tried to steer them away from an area, the more they would be inclined to search it!

On that note, I think it would probably be best for Vanwe to be out of the house by the time the Rangers search it.

As for the Rangers finding Kaldir's trail, I have no objection to their seeing him. By then he would probably have Gilly & Benia with him, so the sighting would have to be from a distance. Otherwise, what's to stop them from riding up & interfering? Or, maybe something else would be going on that would keep them from interfering with him at the time of the sighting. Either way, they would already know he was also on Naiore's trail.

[Elora]

All valid points.

Of course, to get Vanwe out of the house, Barrold needs to get there and spirit her away before Rangers show up. As I understand it, Rangers already observe the house, so therefore there'll need to be some further alterations.

Here is my own question. If Rangers don't like to track in the dark, why would they locate a concealed cellar in the dark? Seems to plausible that they might not. Barrold has used this cellar in past for his activities. It is concealed, but not indetectible in daylight.

Certainly, Vanwe is in no condition to escape. She's bound hand and foot and exceptionally weak. She won't be going very far under her own management.

Barrold will certainly encounter Avanill in the morning. As that character is esconced at the inn right now, that seems to me to be the best course to take to bring that character into the thick of things.

Hilde, concerning Vanwe, I take a somewhat different view. I can appreciate your concern and have no desire to engage in cliches with my own characters. We're of one mind there.

Vanwe is not getting stronger. Rather, her character is becoming more defined. Up to now, she's been somewhat indistinct. What can she do? Why is Naiore so concerned about her abilities?

My intentions for Vanwe is to make her similiar in some respects to her mother and father, but make different choices. Vanwe's uncanny healing ability is rooted in the same talents as her mother's sensativities. Naiore choses to use her in violent and destructive ways, Vanwe does not.

For Vanwe to emerge as something more than a victim character, a cliche I wish to avoid, her abilities do have to start to come to the fore. So, Vanwe's terrified reach, crude as it was, is the beginning. That served three purposes. First, it helped me reveal something more about Vanwe. Secondly, it gave Lespheria something to sense apart from Naiore and confirm Vanwe's survival thus far. Third, it was impetus for the Rangers to do more than sit at the inn and discuss things. I doubt those characters would sit whilst the hunt was afoot, be it night or dark.

So, rest assured, Vanwe is not developing into some superhero, multipowered character. But neither shall she be a passive victim. Vanwe's tendancy to underestimate herself is her main downfall. The sooner she uncovers her resources and begins to use them, the sooner shall she stand on her own feet.

One final note, I had Vanwe's surge crude and grasping as Vanwe has had no training for her sensativities. Without so much as an Elven role model and the active and violent repression of her abilities by the villagers, her skill and contol is rough and she feels reluctant to ever use her sensativities. It is a thing of shame, corruption and fear for her, given her childhood.

That sort of baggage is not easily overthrown on account of one, albiet very traumatic, experience. So therein is a natural break to any tendancy for Vanwe to morph into something supernatural.

[Imladris]

Here is my own question. If Rangers don't like to track in the dark, why would they locate a concealed cellar in the dark? Seems to plausible that they might not. Barrold has used this cellar in past for his activities. It is concealed, but not indetectible in daylight.

My understanding is that cellars are located outside a house, in the ground, and are accessed by a trap door. Now, rangers aren't stupid and they would assuredly search the house and grounds thoroughly before they left. Another thing: you weren't exactly clear where the cellar was located. Surely one of them would notice a different sound or feel in the wood (or ground, wherever the cellar is located)-- more of a hollow sound. That's why in World War II, the people who hid the Jews would line the secret rooms with bricks so that the Nazi's couldn't tell between the real wall and the fake wall.

I don't know how to explain myself without making an a$$ out of myself, but I am going to do it any ways. What's up with Vanwe? How is she turning into this superhero? She's not even a hero yet; she is too bloody weak and pathetic. To me, she's very weak --she's almost stagnant. She's predictable. Have I missed something here? I am going to list everything that you've said that seems to have come out of the blue:
1. "I can appreciate your concern and have no desire to engage in cliches with my own characters. We're of one mind there."
Was this discussed in a PM or something?
2. "For Vanwe to emerge as something more than a victim character, a cliche I wish to avoid, her abilities do have to start to come to the fore."
Vanwe is a victim character right now. She's been picked on by the entire world, according to her history. She can't do anything. That can make a really good character, but it's a little much right now. In this RPG, she hasn't used her abilities to sense things. Why is she so frightened in the cellar? You are having an effect without having a cause. Is it because her mother betrayed her?
3. "So, Vanwe's terrified reach, crude as it was, is the beginning."
What is this "terrified reach" you are talking about? Was it when she felt that terror well up inside her and she would have screamed if she had had the strength? That's hardly a gift. She didn't read anybody. Also, the Rangers were not sitting and doing nothing. From what I have read, Naiore is not someone to go rushing after rashly. She is a force that needs to be reckoned with. It would be foolhardy to go after Naiore so impetuously. Besides, it just seemed like they were taking a long time because it took a few days to post what really happened in just a few minutes. I don't think it would have been very smart to meet and then just to go after Naiore without comparing notes and making a logical decision based on those notes. Even Aragorn was leery to track the hobbits in the dark, and they were valued friends.
4. "So, rest assured, Vanwe is not developing into some superhero, multipowered character. But neither shall she be a passive victim. Vanwe's tendancy to underestimate herself is her main downfall. The sooner she uncovers her resources and begins to use them, the sooner shall she stand on her own feet."
Just because Vanwe underestimates herself doesn't mean she should just sit there, tied, without trying to do something to free herself. Heck, even Pippin tried to help by throwing away his Lorien brooch. Why isn't she doing anything? Why isn't she trying to find her mother and figure out what's going on?

Vanwe is stagnant.

What can she do? Why is Naiore so concerned about her abilities?

That's why she needs to escape. She's been searching for Mom and Dad for years, through many dangers. Why is she giving up now? What happened to her carving knife? Why can't she cut her bonds with that? She doesn't have to cut the bonds that bind her hands. All she needs to do is cut her feet and crawl away. And now she doesn't even find the impetus to try and escape to find her mother?

Right now, in my opinion, this story lacks life. There is nothing to spice it up. We need suspense. Every story needs suspense. Right now, a reader can predict what's going to happen. But if Vanwe escapes for reasons within her character, the reader will be left in suspense. Will she find her way to Lespheria and tell them about Naiore, or will the love of her mother lead the rangers or Lespheria away? Will she run into her mother? And if Avanill captures her, will Avanill hang onto her or give her back to Ferny or Naiore? Right now Avanill is another stagnant character, through no fault of Everdawn. If Avanill captures Vanwe, there could be an interesting, maybe even humorous, flare of tempers between Ferny (who would of course pursue Vanwe in fear of Naiore) about who gets to keep Naiore's daughter. But this is up to Elora what to do.

This is just my humble opinion. A classic theme in literature is the meeting/separation theme to create suspense. If any of you have watched the TV show "24," you'll know what I mean.

Right now Vanwe is doing the opposite of what she's been doing for her entire life. All she's been concerned about is finding her parents. Now her mother has drugged her and abandoned her in the hands of a swine like Ferney. Why? Naiore's actions have not been explained, no motive has been identified. Why is she so frightened of her daughter? It seems that Vanwe is giving up too easily from what I've learned of her character.

I'm sorry if I have offended you, Elora and the others, but I think this needed to be said.

[Ealasaide]

As I understand it, Rangers already observe the house, so therefore there'll need to be some further alterations.

Elora - I believe Nerindel has written an edit to her last posts so that the house is NOT currently under observation.

Imladris - Obviously, you have some issues with how the storyline is progressing. If you could state more specifically (to me in a PM, if you like) what is troubling you, perhaps we can sort it out. Part of the problem here is that you were not in on Elora's character development of Vanwe & Naiore that took place in the Green Dragon before we moved over to the current RPG format. Perhaps if you gave Elora a little more time to develop her characters, their roles & motivations would become more clear to you.

In the meantime, let's try to keep things on a friendly & positive note.

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaide ]

[Elora]

No offense and your comments are welcome. Hopfully my reply will be taken in the same manner.


The cellar is concealed by brush. A thought that occurred to me is why Rangers would take the liberty of searching a private residence without the owner present in the dark with Naiore conceivably lurking nearby.

Such riffling of private property I would think sit ill with the Rangers.

As for Vanwe, this seems very much a matter of opinion and perspective. Let me give you mine, as she is my creature.

What's up with Vanwe? How is she turning into this superhero? She's not even a hero yet; she is too bloody weak and pathetic. To me, she's very weak --she's almost stagnant. She's predictable. Have I missed something here?

Perhaps so, Imladris. Hilde raised the concern about Vanwe suddenly becoming powerful. Hence my comments on this.

On a broader scale, Vanwe is far from weak. She sees herself as small, and yet her achievments thus far in her history suggests otherwise. A weak and pathetic character would never have dared defy the Haradrim and flee. Certainly the long and harsh road would have been the end of her. Vanwe has been able to get herself through many challenging situations.

She is weak now on account of what she was given by her mother. I could not magic away the effects of such a thing and keep the plot plausible.

1. "I can appreciate your concern and have no desire to engage in cliches with my own characters. We're of one mind there."
Was this discussed in a PM or something?

No PMs have passed on this. It's merely my reply to what Hilde posted earlier today (board time) concerning Vanwe's character development through the course of the RP thus far.

Vanwe is a victim character right now. She's been picked on by the entire world, according to her history. She can't do anything. That can make a really good character, but it's a little much right now. In this RPG, she hasn't used her abilities to sense things. Why is she so frightened in the cellar? You are having an effect without having a cause. Is it because her mother betrayed her?

I really have to disagree with you on that one. Vanwe's character profile clearly sets out her abilities and as you can see she is far from completely devoid of skills. She can do something. In addition to her adept surivival skills, Vanwe's sensativities and healing abilities give her talent. She's also artistically minded.

Forgive me if the RP has not enabled me to fully reveal Vanwe's entire personality, but it is only in it's early stages. Vanwe has had to be grabbed for this RP to even begin. That means she had to have vulnerabilities that fit that scenario. It doesn't mean anything else.

By the way, the whole world didn't pick on Vanwe. She's suspicious of the world as she's an isolated figure in it, divorced from her culture, her kindred and any community. However, as evinced by her involvement in the Green Dragon, not everyone picks on her.

She found the beginings of friends and home there, and her perspective on the world was slowly changing. Naiore's intervention via this RP has taken her away from those bonds. I have said before now that I plan on Vanwe forging them again in this RP. She has a connection with Lespheria, and had a connection with Hanasian. She will forge new connections.

What is this "terrified reach" you are talking about? Was it when she felt that terror well up inside her and she would have screamed if she had had the strength? That's hardly a gift. She didn't read anybody.

Actually, Vanwe did reach with her emotions. Given her sensativities, she projected this. Lespheria sensed her. That has all been recorded in RP. Were Vanwe better skilled in her abilities, perhaps she could have been both more coherent and better targeted than simply projecting wildly outwards.

Neither Vanwe nor Naiore read people.... both sense aspects about people. Naiore senses emotions with startling insight (combination of practised observation and her innate ability as discussed in her character profile). Vanwe has inherited this also, but it is more about sensing injury and illness and putting that right - hence healing.

Lespheria is also has a version of this sensativity. She sensed Vanwe, being familiar with her already to a point, but for Lespheria to do that, Vanwe had to be conscious.

Also, the Rangers were not sitting and doing nothing. From what I have read, Naiore is not someone to go rushing after rashly. She is a force that needs to be reckoned with. It would be foolhardy to go after Naiore so impetuously. Besides, it just seemed like they were taking a long time because it took a few days to post what really happened in just a few minutes. I don't think it would have been very smart to meet and then just to go after Naiore without comparing notes and making a logical decision based on those notes. Even Aragorn was leery to track the hobbits in the dark, and they were valued friends.

No kidding! But, where to start in the night without a target acquired? House to house search of Bree until they stumbled over Barrold Ferney?

Lespheria provided direction. That, added to intelligence gathered has been enough for some to have their Ranger characters go off in search during the night.

I'll be more than happy to move it along. My perspective is this. I've been delaying to allow Barrold to begin interacting with other folk - Kaldir notably. Were the Rangers following Naiore, they'd have their targets split as Barrold headed in one direction to dispose of the gelding and Naiore in the other. Can't have the capture too simple as it's not due to happen yet and that would only make the Rangers look a little foolish - something we wish to avoid.

I'm eager to get this moving along, but discussion cropped up as to where Naiore, Vanwe and Barrold should be. It's yet to be resolved. Should I post, inevitably, someone or the other shall be jumping up and down about it not suiting their plans.

Hence, this discussion. My opinion is that it would be easier for us all if the Rangers set up a watch over Barrold's house. If they don't know where Naiore is, it's unlikely they'll venture in blindly. Meanwhile, watching Barrold will at least take care of that aspect of their hunt.

Why it is necessary for Rangers to search "tonight" RP time, I don't really know. Then again, I'm not planning for any Ranger character. That lies in the hands of those who are. I'm doing my level best to accomodate people's opinions and wishes.

Not to forget, last time I hurried this along, I ended up gazumping people. Not keen to repeat that.

Just because Vanwe underestimates herself doesn't mean she should just sit there, tied, without trying to do something to free herself. Heck, even Pippin tried to help by throwing away his Lorien brooch. Why isn't she doing anything? Why isn't she trying to find her mother and figure out what's going on?

Were Vanwe conscious, she would be doing something. Perhaps I have not been clear enough in describing what was done to her by her mother and her present state. Let me remedy that now.

Naiore administered a tincture she developed. Its effects are to pull all energy, physical and mental, into the body for a period of sustained exertion. It dulls the mind increasingly as the hours pass. Naiore administered it at morning. It is now late evening. Vanwe is exhausted physically and mentally.

However, Vanwe is recovering and much faster than Naiore could have ever expected, hence Naiore's surprise at sensing Vanwe's projection at all. Believe me, once Vanwe is conscious and able to move muscles, she will not simply lie bound quietly.

Once again, the plot states that Vanwe accompanies Naiore willingly or otherwise until Rivendell. When she wakes bound, Naiore's ability to gull Vanwe will be reduced. It will become a process of threat and inuendo from that point. I can't have it too easy for Vanwe or Naiore if this is to be an interesting RP.

Vanwe is stagnant.

If that is true, I'll have Barrold kill her now and you can run the RP without her.

That's why she needs to escape. She's been searching for Mom and Dad for years, through many dangers. Why is she giving up now? What happened to her carving knife? Why can't she cut her bonds with that? She doesn't have to cut the bonds that bind her hands. All she needs to do is cut her feet and crawl away. And now she doesn't even find the impetus to try and escape to find her mother?

This relates to my earlier comments about understanding the physical state Vanwe is in.

I won't repeat it again. I think we have that straight now.

Oh, and Vanwe does escape.... at Rivendell as per the plot outline. Fear not on that count.

Right now, in my opinion, this story lacks life. There is nothing to spice it up. We need suspense. Every story needs suspense. Right now, a reader can predict what's going to happen. But if Vanwe escapes for reasons within her character, the reader will be left in suspense. Will she find her way to Lespheria and tell them about Naiore, or will the love of her mother lead the rangers or Lespheria away? Will she run into her mother? And if Avanill captures her, will Avanill hang onto her or give her back to Ferny or Naiore? Right now Avanill is another stagnant character, through no fault of Everdawn. If Avanill captures Vanwe, there could be an interesting, maybe even humorous, flare of tempers between Ferny (who would of course pursue Vanwe in fear of Naiore) about who gets to keep Naiore's daughter.

All of what you suggest and descibe forms the next chapter for this RP that takes us from Bree to Imladris.

Predictability is the cost of preplanning events in a RP to the extent Barrow Downs encourages. Nature of the beast at this website.

Oh, and predict for me the ultimate ending of the RP?

Right now Vanwe is doing the opposite of what she's been doing for her entire life. All she's been concerned about is finding her parents. Now her mother has drugged her and abandoned her in the hands of a swine like Ferney. Why? Naiore's actions have not been explained, no motive has been identified. Why is she so frightened of her daughter? It seems that Vanwe is giving up too easily from what I've learned of her character.

I thought I'd covered off on these questions before. Certainly you have asked them and I had replied. I was unaware you still had questions.

Too early to say that Vanwe has given up. The RP has yet to move to a point where Vanwe has had the chance to decide all hope is lost.

As for Naiore's motivations, I suggest you read back through this discussion thread and the character profile and then specify where earlier elaborations leave unanswered questions so that I can respond.

Here's what I've said so far.

Naiore thinks Vanwe is a threat and a potential weapon being used against her by her foes. She thinks Vanwe is in league with Kaldir. When she learns of Menecin's survival, she'll think that Vanwe's father is also using her daughter.

She suspects of Vanwe what she knows herself to be capable of. That is treachery, deceit, murder... She knows Vanwe has been tracking her, and Naiore has only ever been hunted in the past by those who seek justice. That Vanwe was simply seeking her family doesn't occur to her and neither does the fact that everything Naiore does now to use and destroy her daughter will only achieve the end she wishes to avoid. Naiore is turing Vanwe into the weapon she thinks Vanwe already is.

A case of self-fulfilling prophecy.


So, no offense, but that does not mean that I have to agree. I think some patience and review of what has been discussed in the past would be of great assistance here.

Right now, I'm not editing anything nor posting anything until this confusion over what the Rangers wish to do regarding Barrold Ferney's house is resolved.

That is up to people other than me.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I am working on the assumption now that the ranger’s will have combed Bree and found nothing (If Elora wants to have some rangers around Barrold’s for Vanwe to hear let us know, also if they should mention Naiore or not). By the time they meet up it could be daybreak. That give Barrold time to get Vanwe out of there and Kaldir time to interact with his folk. The rangers can find Barrold’s House and tracks when Dulrain shows up with its location in the early morning. Amandur & Lespheria can had out on there path to Tallas at the same time.

Is this correct?

PS About the cellar, very simple, if the floor is wood there is a cellar, if it is dirt there is not. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Please excuse me but I haven't had a chance to read Elora's last post as we cross posted, (but did see my name mentioned curiously enough). I will look at it more length when time permits. Adieu!

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[Elora]

Hilde, I'm not going to venture an opinion.

Between Vanwe being either too powerful or too stagnant, seems I can't get it right.

So, it's up to you Ranger writer folk to figure out what you want to do and let me know.