Riddles in the Downs

[Pervinca Took]

I thought of Kheled Zaram, but not the rest!

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Numenor was a darn good guess... Thinking of other stars in waters, how about - between Kheled Zaram and the Mirror of Galadriel, you have the Nimrodel stream - ie Nimrodel for answer?

Correct on all points - well done! Over to you.

hS

[Urwen]

Bump?

[Urwen]

Bump?

[Galadriel55]

My apologies. I've had a busy time of late and haven't really come up with anything. If someone else has a riddle ready, you can have the turn.

[Huinesoron]

It's been a while, so I'll chuck in a quick one:

Volumes bound in Elder Ages,
Halfling sisters, jewelled rings,
Tribes and Ents and record pages,
What sums up these several things?

hS

[Urwen]

Tolkien's works, possibly?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Tolkien's works, possibly?

The first two words refer to (a) Tolkien work(s). And of course the whole thing is Tolkien themed.

hS

[Urwen]

The number three?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The number three?

Quite right! The stage is yours.

hS

[Urwen]

I am the first
Known as Shepherdess
I married out of spite
To deny them what was mine by right.

I am the second
Fickle like a moon
During my life rose the Lord of the Gifts
Some say I accepted his boon.

I am the third
I refused to do what I hate
My dislike paved his path
And sealed my child's fate

We three share a phrase
We're described by
Some say there is one more
Say the phrase if you know our lore.

[Huinesoron]

"Shepherdess" was the big opening hint here. Does anyone other than Tar-Ancalime actually interact with sheep in the Legendarium? Someone *must*, but I can't bring them to mind. Pretty much everything the Princess Shepherdess did was out of spite, including her marriage.

I'm in Verse 2. At least I think I'm still the main proponent of Tar-Telperien the Witch-Queen of Numenor.

I remember Tar-Vanimelde less than I do the others, basically because she did nothing. I think "his path" here refers to her husband usurping the sceptre - not that that set a terrible precedent or anything!

You are the Ruling Queens of Westernesse, and Tar-Miriel deserves to be counted alongside you.

hS

[Urwen]

That is correct.

[Huinesoron]

Rent with iron from the forest's bones,
Bound by iron-slain heifer's hide,
Scarred with iron by the gander's barbs,
Stained like iron-death; who am I?

hS

[Urwen]

Boromir's horn?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Boromir's horn?

I'm afraid you're not even close. :-/

hS

[Urwen]

Rent with iron from the forest's bones, - Angrist?
Bound by iron-slain heifer's hide,
Scarred with iron by the gander's barbs,
Stained like iron-death; who am I? - Gurthang?

[Galadriel55]

"Forest's bones" makes me think trees, and therefore something wooden. I agree with Urwen that "iron-death" soubds very much like Gurthang, so possibly painted black. To be honest if it wasn't for the "likely black" part, I would lean to Earendil's ship - a boat of timber felled. Equally though, the second line makes it sound like it's bound in leather.


Oh! Black leather bindings! Is it the book of Mazarbul? Paper made of trees, bound in leather, presumably 3rd line refers to arrow holes and other tears, and black colour?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

"Forest's bones" makes me think trees, and therefore something wooden. I agree with Urwen that "iron-death" soubds very much like Gurthang, so possibly painted black. To be honest if it wasn't for the "likely black" part, I would lean to Earendil's ship - a boat of timber felled. Equally though, the second line makes it sound like it's bound in leather.


Oh! Black leather bindings! Is it the book of Mazarbul? Paper made of trees, bound in leather, presumably 3rd line refers to arrow holes and other tears, and black colour?

This is so close! You're right on paper and leather, though not on the arrow-holes, and you're even right that "iron-death" indicates a colour... but it has nothing to do with Gurthang, and the colour is not black.

hS

[Urwen]

Red book of Westmarch, then?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Red book of Westmarch, then?

Correct. I don't know that it was dyed with iron (some red dyes use mercury ores instead), but the death of iron is rust-red.

The ink, however, would have been iron-based, which is the meaning of the third line: it's just a grisly description of writing with a quill pen.

Over to you!

hS

[Urwen]

Wait, they wrote in that book with blood?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Wait, they wrote in that book with blood?

What, did you think Bilbo took a pen and inkwell along to write his diary with?

Nah, so the Magna Carta exhibit at Salisbury Cathedral had this whole thing about how the ink is made from oak galls and iron salts. Wikipedia's "ink" article has a big block quote about ink recipes which are all iron-based too, so I figure it's likely what the Hobbits used.

hS

[Urwen]

I will write the riddle and the password tomorrow, promise.

[Urwen]

I stood near the river
For centuries I watched
Time unfolds
Many things I took for granted

The black one brought ruin
To me and those around me
The river turned red with blood
And I watched it all come to be.

To anyone who still might be around: This riddle is trickier than you'd think.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I stood near the river
For centuries I watched
Time unfolds
Many things I took for granted

The black one brought ruin
To me and those around me
The river turned red with blood
And I watched it all come to be.

To anyone who still might be around: This riddle is trickier than you'd think.

Hmm. There can't be that many battles or massacres near rivers (which would be needed for one to turn red with blood). Let's see if we can narrow it down.

"The black one" could be Morgoth, Sauron, or Turin. It couldn't be Saruman, so the Battle of Bywater is out. I don't think we can blame Morgoth for the Kinslayings, so anything to do with Doriath is out too.

"For centuries I watched" means it's either an inanimate object, or an immortal; it also can't be anything built (or anyone born) in the First Age after about 200, because "for centuries".

Hmm... the repetition of "watched" has me wondering: are you the Palantir of Osgiliath? I think you need to be in an established location to get "those around me", so something like the battle of Gladden Fields is out. Osgiliath stands directly over the river, and the Palantir did do a lot of watching.

hS

[Urwen]

Well, you have the correct group for 'the black one', and the 'inanimate object' part. Everything else is false.

Also, Sauron never destroyed that Palantir, so 'brought ruin to me' doesn't apply, Every part of the riddle applies, remember?

[Huinesoron]

Okay. Are you Minas Tirith, the Tower of Guard of the First Age?

It stood on an island in Sirion
It was the Tower of Guard for centuries
Time passed
And the Noldor grew complacent with their Siege.

Sauron came upon the tower and its people,
Driving them out and bringing spiritual ruin, and ultimately killing its king and handing over the keys to its destruction.
I do not know whether the loss of Minas Tirith involved slaughter,
But the tower watched until it was destroyed completely.

Alarmingly, for all the talk of Finrod's grave remaining "inviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under destroying seas," the Grey Annals record that after the Nirnaeth, "the pass of Sirion was pierced and Tol-sirion retaken and its dread towers rebuilt". Christopher even highlights this, saying the published Silm was amended from "[the isle] ever after remained inviolate; for Sauron came never back thither". I guess when they rebuilt they left the grave alone? (Tragically, only seven years passed between Finrod's death, and Sauron reclaiming Tol Sirion.)

hS

[Urwen]

No, but close, at least geographically.

[Huinesoron]

Barad Eithel then? For basically the same reasons, though I can't say for sure Sauron was directly involved that time.

hS

[Urwen]

No...

[Urwen]

Need a hint?

[Huinesoron]

Unless you are Thangorodrim, with the Black One being Ancalagon, yes please.

hS

[Urwen]

Well, you're thinking in the wrong direction. Color black is not always associated with evil.


(And I probably gave everything away with this hint.)

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, you're thinking in the wrong direction. Color black is not always associated with evil.


(And I probably gave everything away with this hint.)

Oh, then you're probably Nargothrond. Unless you're Brethil, or Mim's house, or that one part of Dor-lomin, or literally any other place Turin ever got within shouting distance of. But probably Nargothrond.

hS

[Urwen]

True, true.


(How to make a riddle about my favorites without making it about them? Just use a place associated with them.)

[Huinesoron]

Well, why not?

I heard their words:
The lord of the Forest welcomed me;
The queen of the Island wished my hand;
The king in the Mountains feared me;
The steed of the Plains would bear me;
But in the end, each found another.
Who am I?


hS

[Urwen]

The second and third line could refer to multiple people (if the Island I am thinking of is the same one you're thinking of.), but I will assume you're referring to Telperien and Thorin...in which case...er...

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The second and third line could refer to multiple people (if the Island I am thinking of is the same one you're thinking of.), but I will assume you're referring to Telperien and Thorin...in which case...er...

Hiya! It's been... A While, yeah.

Neither Telperien nor Thorin, though it looks like you have the Island right. (I will note in passing that "lord" in the first line is not a specific title; it just means "a male ruler".)

hS

[Urwen]

Well, starting with line 2 might make it easier. So we can remove Vanimelde, since she is not well-known...but wait...Queen doesn't neccesarily mean 'ruling queen'...wait, I might have a theory... *wanders off to check*