Are You Writing Serious Fantasy?

[Nimiriel]

I am, as I told you, working on an elven language, and I need an alphabeth. I'm not good at making new letters, so I thought that maybe one of you could help me.
The letters has to be elegant and beautiful, like the elves, and I need letters for:
a,b,c,d,e,f,g,i,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,t,u,v,y,th,ë,á,é,í,ó ,ú,ý.
I really hope you can help me.

[Starbreeze]

wow, starbreeze, cool. it's just a little place i escape to. im revising a map

I use my fictional world to escape too. Its currently only the size of Europe. Part of my motivation to make my world as real as possible is so I can escape and feel like I really have left this world behind.

I haven't been working on the story for very long, so it has only been small problems, the big ones will surely come later.

You are right, but if, like me, you read through this thread you will find many of your problems overcome before they even arise.

As for new letters, well, I have been working on a Rune language used by the ancient elfin race which formerly populated my world, and it really is hard. There are so amyn symbols you need, especially if, like me, you don't just want letters, but sounds like sh and ck and th aswell. I wish you luck with it.

[NazgulNumber10]

hey starbreeze, tell us about your story.
[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Starbreeze]

My story?! Wow, that would be telling! How much do you want to know? Oh well, I suppose I can tell you the base of my story, as long as you promise not to tell...shhh!

It is set in a world where war has run rampant for centuaries. They have finally found peace and weaponry has been banned. The elfin races of Sheider and Adione once ruled the land but have now departed, because of unrest amongst themselves and because of the growing power of the human race. With them they have taken all magic, and all mythical creatures, of light and dark, unicorns, dragons etc. The few magic creatures that are left fight against the humans but their world is falling apart without magic. It all sounds very simple but there are a lot of twists, betrayal, and suprises. I hope I haven't given away too much. I claim copyright on the above synopsis Copyright J.Old. Its not that I don't trust you guys, its that I don't know who else might be reading this. This is my career at stake here. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Niphredil Baggins]

Nimiriel, I think in making letters for a language it's best if:
a)all the letters are planned by the same person
b)the letters are based on some existing alphapet: for example, take some arabic letters, turn then around, twist them, alter them unrecognizable and invent some new ones...

And then ask yourself if you need an alphapet at all, and what for: illustration, map, something else...

As for the theme question:

I have two stories in progress

The themes in Chrystal heart:
- father-daughter relationship
- power and responsibility
- sibling relationships
- different roles of women
- war
- romantic love
- magic and symbols

The themes in 'Dremette':

- A woman raised like a man
- traditions and taboos and their breaking
- tension inside and between nations
- a quest
- a millennial friendship
- dragons
- symbols

[NazgulNumber10]

themes in my story ( DragonFang )
lies
self battles
abondonment
power of history
cripping hate
conspirise
and a lot of other stuff
[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Laiedheliel]

Jinkies, with this theme stuff, I feel like I'm already back in English class. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Themes for my story (as well as I can guess):
love/hate
inner struggle
war
racial conflict
innocence

And that's all I can think of for now, any FWW people feel free to correct or add. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

O, and congrats on page 10! Woo!l_l)

[littlemanpoet]

Hey people,

Niphredil brought up an interesting topic for serious fantasy writers on a different thread having to do with "what if the Ring had never been found"; interesting thread in its own right, but onto my quote:

Hidden, the ring kept up a fragile balance that nobody was satisfied with... in my point of view, balance is something that starts adventures rather than ends them... for the balance always tips... suddenly...

So my question is: what plot device gets your story going? A tip in the balance of power, as Niphredil thinks, or is it something else? Are there better and worse plot devices? overused and hackneyed ones?

My answer to the question from my own story is: all of my stories get going by breaking a series of taboos, leading to discovery of something totally beyond one's normal experience. Now that I read what I wrote I'm stunned by how Jungian it is. Anybody read his autobiography? Breaking of taboos is all through it. Enough about that aside. Any takers on the main question?

[Nimiriel]

My first story of 4/5 is actually started by a big and sudden tip in the ballance, time just passes for a while before someone discover this tip. The others are more attached to the main carracter and her life (always a her though it isn't the same her through all 4/5 stories) but maybe it,s some kind of tip in her personally ballance that starts it all, I don't know... yet.

[mystra]

i am writing a fantasy novel, and anything i come up with that is similar to tolkien, i change. i am trying to avoid him so much, its getting quite difficult! i am using the elves- some will say stealing- but i found some stuff in a book on norse mythology which is similar to lotr, but i figured i could use it if it comes from a different source. im creating the entire world to go with my book, like tolkien did. my head is full of nothing but fantasy and idealistic worlds- its becoming hard for me to face up to reality. i cant distinguish ME or Neremorn- a fantasy world- from our own. somehow i dont think thats healthy! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
i have been writing since i was about 9 or 10, but not seriously. i am hoping to publish my current novel in the future. i have been working on it for about 8 months so far, but its mainly planning.
i tell myself that i will be laughed at or put down by critics/other writers/the general public if i show signs of having copied tolkien so i try to be as different as i can. but its too hard to be entirely original when youre dealing with the same sort of subject.

my sincere apologies for my long and exceedingly dull article [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
luv myst

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

Still working on my basics for my story, so nothing that much yet..

[Lila Bramble]

Welcome Nimiriel!

About geography, I like RPG lands, big fields, little towns dotted along the way, dirt paths and dust roads, always forests and mountains, and kingdoms as well as lakes.

Also, I have an idea about a work without being a fanfiction. Can you guys tell me what you think?

In an almost water world of Celestia, the fish people, the Meejah, are disgusted that land has risen and some of their own were transferring into their land counter parts, Killia's. Years after, it almost seemed as if they were completely different races, and war is brewing. The Meejah want the world converted back to its original water state, and the Killia's wish to build land over the water. Some of the Killia's evolved into a greater race, the Elfen Ola's, otherwise the Elfs, a race of the Killia's that hold much power and somehow mysteriously long lives. Unlike other Killia's, they actually developed back their immunity to go into water to some amount, though if they spend too long they will just float to the surface and die. Because of they were a greater race than them, the Killia's worship the Elfen Ola's as their Gods, and chose them as their kings and queens.

The Elfen Reb's, also know as the Elfs by the Meejah, were the group of higher developed Meejah. They swam faster and longer with high endurance while developing small amounts of two lungs, letting them stay on the surface momentarily, but they could easily shrivel up. The Meejah too worshiped their higher race and chose them as their authority figures.

The Meejah's kingdom's princess and strongest ruler of the under-water part of Celestia, the Goddess of Grace to the Underworld (which the area was called,) was Princess Kala. The Meejah urged her to begin war by dragging the Killia's largest land piece into the sea.

The biggest leader for the Killia's was Prince Sandata, God of Power to the Land, for he bested all in fight. The others of his race, his father, and all other Elfen Ola's told him now was the best time to use the device they had created and drain part of the water from the Underworld.

The only problem was that Prince Sandata and Princess Kala would meet, and fall in love, meaning disaster for the rest of Celestia…

Okay, it's just an idea, it might not go anywhere.

[mystra]

hey! thats a really good plot! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

mine is kinda traditional..... well, its different, but its still a quest to destroy evil. theres actually an awful lot going on, so its divided into 2 books so far. im hoping to do 4 books altogether, as well as a spin-off series.
oh god...... i cant remember the plot! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Niphredil Baggins]

Well, one of my stories starts with a meeting that will change the lives of those who meet... and their lives are far from insignificant... the balance in this world is between action and serenity, generally humans act and elves ponder, but sometimes things get reversed.

In the other story the beginning is an accident, followed by the downfall of the one who caused it. But the downfall means a new beginning and personal growth. Of course the major events have their roots far in history, when a powerful man gained rule of the world. This was a tip in the balance of power- from independent city-states to an empire.

There are many balances to be tipped:
good-evil
old-new
power (tip results in war/revolution/conquest)
personal mental balance
religious balance

etc etc.

[Niphredil Baggins]

Overused plot devices?
Well, I personally think that a heroic quest to rid the world of a newly risen evil overlord is used, if not overmuch, at least enough... unless it is written in a fresh way, not in a style copied from others.
I mean stories like this: an ordinary swineherd finds out he is the prince who is prophesied to overthrow a tyrant king. He sets on a journey, makes friends with an elf archer, a teenage thief and an old dwarf, and rescues a princess somewhere by the road.
I don't know if there is a story like this, but if there is, it will have to be really well written for me to read it.

[Saxony Tarn]

Wow, it's amazing what happens when i go down to the ol' wine cellar to bring up new kegs -- all these new people on the thread! Alright! Fresh perspectives to keep this debate going...

hmm hmm, let me ponder LMP's new topic for awhile -- i can say right off that if the Ring hadn't been found, Tolkien wouldn't have had a story (well, he would have later on, when it was found by some other poor slob) but as for plot tipping points, i'll really have to think...

i got one series of tales where things get kicked off by the narrator buying a car from its former owner, then one day the car starts to talk. And she finds out the owner is a retired secret agent... and his bosses want to make her an offer she can't refuse, and you get the idea where that's headed!

(Or for "Trust Me" -- adventuring party loses fighter, party calls local contact who tips them off to where they can find suitable replacement who's just been cut from cast, party hauls body out of watery grave, and the rest is fan-fic)

Welcome to all the new folks, please accept your official AYWSF pints and toast!

|_|) <-- don't know about your weather but it's HOT on this western shore -- everybody drink cold liquids and stay out of the sun!

s.t.

[Lila Bramble]

Niphredil, very interesting ideas about kings, princes, dwarfs, and elfs. Its true for the most part, though lotr itself did not involve a prince or princess, and I liked it very much how the heroes were small, almost helpess race of little people rarely even heard of.

For my stories, usually the enemy no one has really heard of. The enemy, whether person or monster (for me it is never a king,) has some relation or knowledge to or of the main characters/party. Usually I set out events long before I write them, then come up with the detail as I write.

In my original fantasy ideas (I rarelr write much besides fanfiction) I like to have a hidden mage, becuase wizardry is so interesting to explore. There must always be stops and long roads ahead, plus big dangers and always set backs. I also like the enemy to be someone either unexpected or an unknown name to much, and slowly the knowledge is spread of this dark being or shadow.

[NazgulNumber10]

My villan is also sort of an enigma. there are many smaal ones, and the visage of the largest one remains a mystery until later. actually, the main villan is not a beast or man, yet an ancient relic bearing the soul of the great dragon (still nameless). some character's can be their own villans too. i think villany is just in how you perseve it. It's not like in cartoons were they run around going "now lets get those good guys". in the real world those "bad guys" consider them selves good. Good and Bad, such childish terms. every one of us is capable of both, and both are in our nature.
ah, for the dilusional rambling of a pychotic teen. i think i'll end with a qoute from edger allen poe's "the tell tale heart"

Why will you say that I am mad?

[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Nar]

Nazgul number 10, I liked your description of your land—that’s almost a poem by itself. Throw in some returns and you’ll see what I mean. You do good verse! I agree with you about shades of gray—and a story with plenty of gray is more interesting. I also like an author with compassion for characters—do you feel for your characters? Do you like them? I liked the lost dragon element—good luck on the name. I really like the mother tree giving birth to all the plants.

Lila Bramble, you wrote

I try not to use themes. I have genres (but dosen't everyone?) but I don't intend for a theme, I let the story flow, I just try to write something I think would get people interested. Most of my stories are things I made up in my head, little adventures to think about when I'm bored, and I just started writing them out. That's where ALL my stories come from!

Believe it or not, that’s the best way to develop themes! They shouldn’t be planned, they should flow naturally out of the story. You probably have more themes than you know, but you shouldn't worry about that, they won’t bite!

I liked your water and earth conflict a lot—I was thinking, sounds like archetypes of male (earth) and female (water) and the battle of the sexes as a vast war, cool—then I read about the leaders falling in love, great! Suits my take on it. I like the idea of starting a war by pulling a chunk of country into the ocean. That’s a cool idea.

Thanks, Littlemanpoet for bringing up themes again—I forgot about that. I’m going to say more about them.

My themes in my literary stories are sort of endgame themes—characters pushing against the limits of their existence, fighting aging, grief. Aside from some current sorrows I won’t go into, when I was 13 I found a wonderful friend, after being very lonely for a couple of years—almost no one my age read Tolkien back in my time, and here I’d found someone on my street, beautiful and kind, who knew about Frodo! Wow!! She looked kind of like a young Luthien, she had long dark hair and fair skin and she was pretty.. and, no joke, she had leukemia. She and I and another outcast, a brave and cheerful blonde girl whose parents were down on their luck, we walked to school together every morning forming one of those magic circles where you complete each other and each becomes witty and clever when the others are around. So, around Christmas she had a relapse. She died. This was the first time I got this feeling of praying so hard your mind pulls at the universe, trying to turn it from its path … can’t be done. Every morning I’d want her to knock on my door so badly that it seemed the force of my longing would bring her to my doorstep … can’t be done.

That’s my model for entering another world in my fantasy story. That feeling of pulling at reality with your mind because you can’t bear it the way it is. So my characters transition into my other world while in the grip of unrequited love (anyone remember how delusional unrequited love makes you? Your dreams drag reality out of whack, at least your own perception of it. Remember the denial? It’s mindbending!) or unremitting grief.

So let’s discuss the two types of fantasy. Tolkein’s is Immersion Fantasy: Reading the books, you’re in the other, wilder world and you never enter this world. Advantage: it’s hypnotic. Difficulty: writing it requires lots of research or invention to make it authentically detailed. Advantage: great scope for big adventures, sweeping events, big feelings, larger than large characters. Disadvantage: Subtlety is harder. Many-layered characters and complicated situations are hard—the story rarely leaves time, and the big, interesting effects and events tempt writer and reader into neglecting character and the --mmm–dissastisfying facets of existance, like unhappy endings and disappointing people.

We know Tolkien considered writing the other type, with Aelfwine (sp? Sorry) as his sailor to the elf world—but he didn’t take that route. Let’s call the other form Transition Fantasy: part of it in this world, part in the other world. Harry Potter’s a somewhat cartoonish example, Narnia also. Mark Twain’s A Conneticut Yankee is a brilliant example. And serious fantasy writer Littlemanpoet’s story would be another example both stirring and intriguing!

This type is risky to write, because going to the other world is part of every reader’s fantasy. So, you need a very careful and classy set-up or it’s wince-inducing. Complicated characters and an original angle become very important—the character-bar is higher if you’re using admitted ‘real people.’ On the other hand, the temptation to let events drive the story and neglect character may be a little less—though I think Lewis and Rowling succumbed. And while in a real world setting, the writer can use all sorts of complicated attitudes, settings and situations that the reader will immediately understand. I’m getting great comic relief and some good themes from my second lead’s breakout of a nursing home that I would never be able to tap if it was a nunnery—there’s not as much resonance when there’s not as much commonality.

[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

[NazgulNumber10]

thanks

[Lila Bramble]

Wow, that was long, Nar. Very interesting topic, and I can't belive someone quooted me! But, I never thought of water being girl and earth being man, but it would be alot more interesting...thanks for the idea!

[NazgulNumber10]

ok, now that i have read nar's article i can fully reply. I'm sorry to her about your friend, but take solice in the fact that i have never known a girl that well, and my only friend who enjoyed tolkien is going to a different high school than me. now back to fantasy. Yes i do care for my characters many of them are based on real people. My main character is based on me. he is isolated and lonely. others don't understand him and his thoughts are of hatred and contempt for another squire. He can't seem to get a break and an outcast among anyone. When his quest begins, unlike frodo, he has no idea what to do. He just wants to survive and from there, bits and pieces come together.
As for type of fantasy, mine is definitly immersation fantasy. I have created maps and story lines to write several four part book seires, 4 (working on a 5th) languages and i timelime that shows tens of thousands of years and events, indexes of names, and started an enciclopedia for it too. i have even recreated many scenes in lego (damn i'm a geek).
I think though, many immersation fantasys have some uniting factors.
1. a fellowship kinda thing. a group of people from many different walks of life who battle a common enemy. Most include a wizard, and elf, and an orphan
2. a battle against an ancient evil. most worlds have had a dark past with the reign of a dark lord (acually mine had no dark lord, but for ages the world lived in fear of a sleeping darkness). Now that dark lord seems to be returning to power and the fellowship must stop it.
thats all i can think of right now, but violating and ignoreing those factors makes for a more intressting novel.
}~NN10~{

Hi, jsut had a very quick glance and noticed the bit about not imitating Tokien - it's hard not to! He seems to have preempeted everything I want to write about!
Case in point, in order to avoid imitating I name my High-Elven-like society the Golden Elves. Due to certain wars, they are forced out of their homes and have to live in the forests with their silvan kindred - so when Golden Elves (so named so as not to rip-off High Elves) move in with the Wood Elves, we get a Golden Wood. Argh! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Lila Bramble]

Nazgul, an orphan? Sounds pretty good to have, though i've never really thought about inserting things other than races.

Anyway, I had a stroke of idea! What if the person everyone thought was their main enemy, the one they set out to destroy, was a mistake? And the thing/person was actually in fact a good person, and became a member of the party, and the whole party was feared?

[Thinhyandoiel]

Nar, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I've never known that sorrow. Unrequited love though? Yes, that was a biting pain. It was because of that first time though, that most of my personality changed to what it is now.
For those at FWW, mine is obviously immersion fantasy. Though, I have no index of names or encyclopedia like Nazgul does. Thinking about it though. I have a map! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] And your uniting factors as you called them, are quite true I find! The fellowship thing. Just look at any Final Fantasy game, which is definately immersion fantasy, and you get that fellowship factor. Always it's about 5-8 completely different people who complete one another and have a remarkable bond of friendship in the end. That's true with Tolkien (obviously [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]) In the end, you could get no stronger friendship than Legolas and Gimli, Sam and Frodo, Merry and Pippin (though that one was already there, now wasn't it?). My story doesn't have more than three races. Mortal humans, Elves, and sprites. Or more precisely, half-sprites. But there's only one, the rest of her race left her lands many years ago. There are three Elves in my "fellowship" and three humans. However, the enemy (who I'm still working out...dangit) has his werewolves.
The battle against an ancient evil. True, again. It's almost cliche isn't it? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] In mine, the evil isn't well-known. No one even knows the guy's name. It's a big mystery. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Lila! That's an interesting idea! I know of a few video games that had that happening (sorry! Fanatic RPG gamer here! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]) and it turned out some ... interesting results. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Now, I'm going way back up to over-used plot devices. What about...running off, kill the dragon, save the princess, claim the riches, become king? It's a fairy tale cliche and the Hobbit sort used it. But with a twist that I thought was original and well, cool. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[NazgulNumber10]

hey nar, i just remembered a quote..

it is better to have loved and lst that to have never loved at all

that kinda sums it up. consider yourself lucky

[littlemanpoet]

Welcome, Olorin of the Third Age (I'm guessing). Post often. I have the first seven pages of this thread indexed and will post it soon, so stay tuned for an easy guide to this thread based on topic, page number, date, and time.

Lila, I think your original fantasy work idea is exciting. I hope you keep going on that and tell us how it's going. We're here to help with problems, too. In fact, there's a lot already posted on this thread that is gold-mine quality of encouragement and help.

So what do you think would happen if the whole party was suddenly feared as evil? Hmmm. Good balance-tipper there.

Thinyan: Tolkien also didn't have a really firm idea as to Sauron right away, so you're in good company. The Necromancer in Mirkwood was mysterious and terrible enough in The Hobbit, and the rest is Middle Earth history, so to speak. I'm interested to find out where things go...

Nar, I like your immersion and transition categories for fantasy stories. I see one more, in the tradition of Charles Williams, X-Files, etc.: "this-world-paranormal/supernatural stuff. The "Society" half of my story is this kind, and there is no transition to speak of until the boundaries between dimensions start getting crashed later in the story - oops - gave away a plot point there (fww folks ignore this [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ). And I'm starting a new fantasy story (don't know where I'm finding the time to do it all) that is very much the psychological/dream-mixing-with-reality/paranormal variety. So what would you call it?

NN10: I like where you're going with your ideas. Cool stuff. Hope to hear more. It's scary and a little strange to hear you talking the way I was feeling twenty-five years ago...Your main protagonist reminds me of one of my two protagonists, who gets sucked into this weird cultic/strange science kind of modern 'guild', which is also a mixed bag in terms of good versus evil. So I'm with you there.

As for unrequited love, oh yeah, it felt like waking up from a dream or the fantasy adventure suddenly ending with a crash; or more accurately, the feeling of really being alive suddenly coming to a screeching halt and the hum drum reality forcing itself back into my awareness. NNGG! <ouch> [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] The quote about love lost is from Shakespeare, as you probably are aware. Whereas I agree with it, the pain still can feel unbearable at times.

Anyway, the new story is definitely NOT Tolkien-imitation. A guy is out for a drive feeling in full force the rejection of his affections, and happens across this strange blue flitting light from which comes strange music. It's on the property of some rich guy, but my protagonist just has to go to it - touches it the same moment the rich guy comes out and attacks him - just for trespassing - touches it, and suddenly everything changes. The rich guy and his woman are going scuba diving and protagonist watches rich guy murder the woman, is spotted, and runs for his life and discovers that he's no longer in a 35 year old body but is a teenager again....and the next door basement he hides in - the family find him and insist he's their son who has FINALLY begun to talk like a normal teenager instead of the slightly autistic kind of kid he'd always been. Protagonist can't decide if he's dreaming or has gotten a second chance at life or what, and there's this murderer next door and things just take off from there. Man, I'm telling a lot here but it's just NOT AT ALL like the kind of fantasy I think we're all used to writing so I feel safe... (do we have p11 here?) [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Nope. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ July 04, 2002: Message edited by: littlemanpoet ]

[NazgulNumber10]

thanks,it's good to hear i realate to people hear. and thanks for taking an intrest in my story. hey i just got a new idea
what if you were just a normal person, than you found out that you are the reancarnated spirit of some great evil. slowly, but surely it starts to ake over your mind. what would you do? fight it, embrase it, or take your own life? think about it...

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

nn10, you have really awesome ideas. When you publish that book, I want to be the first to get a copy! It seems like you have everything covered for an amazing fantasy story. A lot of detail really makes it more interesting and complete. And your characters seem like real people because not everyone is happy and content. Good luck with that story! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Your not a geek either. When you make tons of money from your books, will you still think the same?

Now this just makes me realize how far behind I am, I should get started on organizing my story! Everyone has great ideas, when am I gona get mine! What smiley should I put now...oh well, forget the smiley. Well, I guess I'll just use a happy one
[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ July 04, 2002: Message edited by: Lothiriel Silmarien ]

[NazgulNumber10]

thanks for the support lothiriel. and when i am rich i shall still be a geek. i embrace that and use it to my advantage. thats the kind of person i am very resoursefull and alaways planning ahead. I shall be an example of what a geek can do and inspire others to do something with thier geekiness.thanks

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

No problem Nazzy [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
It seems like I'm a geek to then! Oh well, doesn't matter to me. It sounds like being a geek if more fun than not being one anyway!

[NazgulNumber10]

there is a darkside to being a geek too. a very dark side......

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

I know that. Feeling alone, and seriously wanting to bash in your sister's head, but that isn't a bad part necessarily [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] Edgar Allan Poe is very much like that 'dark side'. I like how he thinks. And I know there are more bad things.

[NazgulNumber10]

that is just the tip of the iceburg...
and my favorite EAP quate from the tell tale heart...

Why will you say that i am mad?

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] I love that poem. He also has a poem that reminds me of Minas Tirith, but I forget the name.

[NazgulNumber10]

oh, it's good to find someone with appreciation for such things...

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

He's one of the best poets ever. Well, him and Tolkien in my opinion. I love dark poems, I like the mystery and tragedy. Tolkien doesn't really fit into that, but his poems are good anyway and he does have tragedy in some.

[NazgulNumber10]

my poetry is also dark and full of sorrow..

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

Ooh, can you post them?! I've written some of my own like that too. Only like 2 though, and I don't think they're all that good.

[NazgulNumber10]

i'll have to try to find my old writing folders, it may take a long time....