TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hm, I thought you had played more, Pitchwife. Another question, then - does anyone have a strong opinion on Pitchwife, in general?

*shrugs* Not yet. He's being pretty non-committal himself...

And yeah, he came across like an old hand in his first game.

[Lariren Shadow]

Rikae--> Rikae
Form--> Mira
Morm--> Hakon
Alona--> Hakon
Sally--> Hakon
Brinn--> Morm
Autume--> Hakon

So Hakon 4, Mira, Morm and Rikae 1

And to Nerwen: why is not lynching doomed Fea mean that we lynch Hakon? He is leading at the moment but its still about 4 and a half hours before deadline. Out of the 20(ish21 if you count Fea still) people playing we've had 7 vote. I'm not sure if Fea is even going to vote. So that means not even half of the people have voted. At the moment 4 votes doesn't mean he's dead.

[Macalaure]

Well, well, it's day one again. I can't see anybody who is actually suspicious. For a change, why don't you baddies try to be a bit more obvious?

Eh, whatever, a list:

Alona: don't like her vote.
Autume: not comfortable with her.
Brinn: morm had a very good point against her, but her defense looked honest.
Durelin: feels clean and knows what cats know that makes them scream like babies in night.
Fea: rode to ruin and the world's ending.
Form: acted almost too Form-stereotypical in his one post.
Hakon: all over the place and probably innocent.
Inzy: not comfortable with him, but can't point to it.
Lari: feels good.
Lommy: not here.
Mira: innocent?
morm: bad vote, good conscience.
Nerwen: feels good, which probably means she's evil.
Nessa: innocent-ish.
Nienna: the little she posted looks ok.
Pitchwife: Rikae's points against him are the best I've seen so far, and that says it all.
Rikae: all over the place and probably innocent.*
Sally: bad vote, good conscience.
Shasta: ?
phantom: one is tempted to tune him out. I will look at him eventually if we both keep on staying alive.

*If I'm dead toMorrow, then evil Rikae has killed me for giving her the same comment as Hakon.


Anyway, this Hakon-waggon is getting out of hands. Who do you think we should put on the rails instead?

[Boromir88]

I ♥ Lari. I hope you're here at the DL so I can get up-to-date voting tallies. Instead of trolling through pages to get all the votes

[Lariren Shadow]

I can't promise I will be here (long and complicated) but I can keep up to date counts before I go.

Other than that, I have nothing else to say.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

And to Nerwen: why is not lynching doomed Fea mean that we lynch Hakon? He is leading at the moment but its still about 4 and a half hours before deadline. Out of the 20(ish21 if you count Fea still) people playing we've had 7 vote. I'm not sure if Fea is even going to vote. So that means not even half of the people have voted. At the moment 4 votes doesn't mean he's dead.

Okay, I was exaggerating. I think you'll agree he's well ahead of the field, though?

[Formendacil]

*groans in pain*

You know, when I started catching up on this thread--apparently a loooong time ago--there were still only 9 pages.

This is page 10.

This is ridiculous.

For once, I have to confess, I'm glad it's Day 1, because that means it's lacking substance, for the most part, and I didn't have read it in-depth--though, given the lack of substance, I think I still got most of it anyway.

Two quick thoughts:

First, regarding the Fea-Waggon, I will submit to the village that this is patent nonsense. If, perchance, Fea is a wolf, then why bother voting for her? We should try and take out a second baddie (Wolf, Bear, Cobbler) while we're at it. If Fea is a villager, then we definitely want to try and take out a Baddie, since the village is already facing a probable two deaths tonight. And if Fea's a Gifted... well... that's really bad--but again, we still want to try and take out a Wolf.

I realise, for those older players who remember (or the younger ones who may have read back), that this may seem a trifle anti-Formendacil in style, since it makes it sound like I think we have a good chance of catching a baddie on Day 1. We don't--let me make that clear--or, rather, we have exactly as much a chance as usual. I continue to aver, as I always have, that we're grossly unlikely to reason our way to finding a Wolf (or Bear, for that matter) on Day 1, but the stats show that Fenris lynches are not impossible, so we may as well at least try for one of those. Also, to emphasize the often forgotten second half of my anti-Day 1 thesis: "Day 1s are useless to analyse on Day 1." My point being that we'll be wanting a voting record tomorrow to analyze, and voting for Fea is an abdication of that, every bit as much as No Voting, but with the psychological pretension that it's an actual vote.

My second thought regards Hakon. I more or less agree (bearing in mind that I skim read a page or two of this thread...) with everything Rikae said in argument against his plots and schemes, but he is the spitting image of the "All-Too-Easy Day 1 Scapegoat" vote... who might be a newbie in some games, or just too noisy... or too quiet... or too easy... or whatever... in others. He's rubbed me enough the wrong way with his suggestions that I can't honestly say he seems a village asset, but that has all the hallmarks of a Village Ordo.

More anon... I haven't had lunch, my cold has not been helped by getting to bed ridiculously late last night (see my previous post), and my brain hurts.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Okay, I was exaggerating. I think you'll agree he's well ahead of the field, though?

He is, but still we've had less than half vote. Unless everyone votes for an entirely different person 4 votes isn't going to mean death. Yet. And this is assuming that everyone actually votes, that there are no "no votes" and such.

[Boromir88]

I ♥ alona, I ♥ tum, I ♥ Brinn, I ♥ Durelin, I ♥ Fea, I ♥ Hakon, I ♥ Dun, I ♥ Lommy. I ♥ Mac. I ♥ Mira. I ♥ morm, I ♥ Nerwen, I ♥ Nessa, I ♥ Nienna, I ♥ Pitch, I ♥ Rikae, I ♥ sally, I ♥ Shasta, I ♥ tp.

Missing anyone? Nope don't think so.

[Rikae]

Hm, I for one don't intend to vote for Hakon. I actually don't think he would have probably kept defending his theory so tenaciously if he were evil.

Oh yeah, and I probably won't let my self-vote stand, either. In fact, I might as well be prepared:

--Rikae

[Durelin]

Have to say this - Arguing that a Fea-vote is no different from a No-vote is completely pointless, considering that a person can certainly think a No-vote is just as ridiculous...except of course if used as a last minute tool.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I ♥ alona, I ♥ tum, I ♥ Brinn, I ♥ Durelin, I ♥ Fea, I ♥ Hakon, I ♥ Dun, I ♥ Lommy. I ♥ Mac. I ♥ Mira. I ♥ morm, I ♥ Nerwen, I ♥ Nessa, I ♥ Nienna, I ♥ Pitch, I ♥ Rikae, I ♥ sally, I ♥ Shasta, I ♥ tp.

Missing anyone? Nope don't think so.

Shall I assume that Celibateman is strictly off-limits, even for you?

*too lazy to look for anyone else who might be missing*

*seriously going to grab supper now*

[Boromir88]

I ♥ Form aka celibateman.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Have to say this - Arguing that a Fea-vote is no different from a No-vote is completely pointless, considering that a person can certainly think a No-vote is just as ridiculous...except of course if used as a last minute tool.

Well, as a matter of fact I do think a No-vote is ridiculous--even in Day 1 circumstances where I don't honestly suspect anyone and would feel too tender to lynch anybody. It's just... unsporting.

Doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

Rikae's de-vote for herself reminds me that I voted for Mira last night, and said I'd probably not actually vote for her in the end. Since I'll be here, on and off at least, if not right here, for the rest of the Day, I think I can safely say I won't need it anymore. Since my first post, Mira has been delightfully under-contributive in adding more to the ridiculous length of this thread--my original grounds for voting.

--Mirandir

I do not promise, of course, that I won't vote for her again.

*has supper beside him, but hasn't touched it*

EDIT: Crossed with Boro and fixed tags.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I ♥ alona, I ♥ tum, I ♥ Brinn, I ♥ Durelin, I ♥ Fea, I ♥ Hakon, I ♥ Dun, I ♥ Lommy. I ♥ Mac. I ♥ Mira. I ♥ morm, I ♥ Nerwen, I ♥ Nessa, I ♥ Nienna, I ♥ Pitch, I ♥ Rikae, I ♥ sally, I ♥ Shasta, I ♥ tp.

Missing anyone? Nope don't think so.

I was going to say Form, but he already did.

And I would say me, but I got my own post

[Boromir88]

You'll never guess what I'm eating right now...it's the only thing I have left to eat actually.

<<Really needs to go to the store.

So, with that I shall dine and observe the remaining hours. You surely don't want some italicized voice being a distraction with only 4 hours remaining.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Form

Well, as a matter of fact I do think a No-vote is ridiculous--even in Day 1 circumstances where I don't honestly suspect anyone and would feel too tender to lynch anybody. It's just... unsporting.

Unsporting and an easy way out...which I guess is the same thing. Was what I was saying in a roundabout way.

[Lariren Shadow]

*sigh* more update votes.

Rikae--> Rikae
Form--> Mira
Morm--> Hakon
Alona--> Hakon
Sally--> Hakon
Brinn--> Morm
Autume--> Hakon
--Rikae---Rikae
--Form---Mira

So Hakon 4 and that's it.

[Rikae]

And morm 1.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by me

Who do you think we should put on the rails instead?

*ahem*

[Rikae]

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Durelin

All those who liked the vote-for-Fea idea are on my naughty list.

I think you disagree with the idea just because I don't. If I had fought strongly against it you'd be more open minded.

But seriously, you and Form- I assume you caught the part where I said lynching Fea wasn't our best option, but that she would be useful as a vote dumping ground should our first choice prove disasterous.

That's why I wouldn't mind seeing a couple people vote for her. That way if Hakon is about dead and comes in and says, "No, I'm the Hunter!" and is believable, we will be in a position where we can easily elevate the already dead Fea at the last minute rather than having to search for another candidate (and possibly have that one be an even worse choice).

So I'm not saying lynch her- I'm saying I wouldn't be suspicious if people were to toss a couple votes that way, and that it may even be a good risk management move. And if I recall Brin also didn't actually advise us to lynch her.

[Rikae]

Oops.

Mac, I'd consider Pitchwife, possibly, or autume...

[Macalaure]

That takes the lack of content on Day 1's a bit far doesn't it?

edit: apparently, you can't make empty quotes...

[Rikae]

Maybe Nienna, though it doesn't seem fair if she's not around.

[the phantom]

Pitchwife hasn't been suspicious and is new (to me), so I'm not voting for him.

Plus he talks.

[Hakon]

I don't like Autume right now. She just votes for me without a good reason. She was just jumping on the bandwagon in my opinion. At least she can still retract that vote although I doubt she will.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

I ♥ alona, I ♥ tum, I ♥ Brinn, I ♥ Durelin, I ♥ Fea, I ♥ Hakon, I ♥ Dun, I ♥ Lommy. I ♥ Mac. I ♥ Mira. I ♥ morm, I ♥ Nerwen, I ♥ Nessa, I ♥ Nienna, I ♥ Pitch, I ♥ Rikae, I ♥ sally, I ♥ Shasta, I ♥ tp.

For some reason that reminded me of an old song....

A little bit of Dury in my life
A little bit of Lommy by my side
A little bit of Nerwen's all I need
A little bit of Lari's what I see....

*laughs*

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by the phantom

For some reason that reminded me of an old song....

A little bit of Dury in my life
A little bit of Lommy by my side
A little bit of Nerwen's all I need
A little bit of Lari's what I see....

*laughs*

*spits out jello* I'm going to have that stuck in my head for days now.

Oh right, yes...supposed to be observing *goes back*

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Who do you think we should put on the rails instead?

Good question, actually... though, this being Day 1, there's no good answer until we've had a few days of hindsight. Going strictly from tradition, it would be safe to say--for myself--I'd be most comfortable voting off someone I don't generally trust most games, and have a higher success rate of not missing.

Shasta would be a prime candidate. I'm not sure if we've played together more than twice, but the the two times I remember, he didn't sit right with me, and--though not bad (well, okay, Cobblers are *technically* bad)--would have at least made those games less confusing.

Lari's impressive track record of winning and surviving games is temptation in and of itself for voting, with a lack of a real candidate. One certainly cannot say of her that she deserves the phantom's "Day 1 newbie pass." Of course, the Grimoire would also suggest she's a non-Ordo, which means we'd be shooting 50/50 for a Gifted or Baddie.

Brinn is the archetypal silent killer. If I were to peg anyone being the Bear on mental associations of little grounding, I'd dress her in fur and hand her a salmon.

Of course, you all realise those are utterly spurious reasons to vote for someone. Really, the votes for Hakon--though my gut tells me he's innocent--are no worse, and potentially better.

Morm, Rikae, and the phantom, though I have a history of not trusting them on Days 2,3, and on (if I haven't died by that point) are too useful if innocent to kill on Day 1, and too suspicious after Day 1 to worry that they'll get away scot-free if they're evil. So they're off my potential lynch-list. Nienna is also off my potential lynch-list out of a left-over sense of chivalry from last game, but if she's seriously going to vote for Fea, she should watch out tomorrow, because that utterly smacks of wolvery. I also feel sorry for Sally, get Fenris'd last game, and she's fun to have around--even if bare-faced guilty--so she's also free of my Day 1 vote.

Other than that... no random Day 1 impressions yet that are coming to mind, so no reason to list anyone here pro or con, but I can gladly make something up or dredge the lower waters if you feel slighted by being under my Day 1 radar.

*was half-finished supper before he came back to this thread...*

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I think you disagree with the idea just because I don't. If I had fought strongly against it you'd be more open minded.

But seriously, you and Form- I assume you caught the part where I said lynching Fea wasn't our best option, but that she would be useful as a vote dumping ground should our first choice prove disastrous.

That's why I wouldn't mind seeing a couple people vote for her. That way if Hakon is about dead and comes in and says, "No, I'm the Hunter!" and is believable, we will be in a position where we can easily elevate the already dead Fea at the last minute rather than having to search for another candidate (and possibly have that one be an even worse choice).

So I'm not saying lynch her- I'm saying I wouldn't be suspicious if people were to toss a couple votes that way, and that it may even be a good risk management move. And if I recall Brin also didn't actually advise us to lynch her.

Actually--sorry to bruise your ego, phantom dear--but I totally missed that you were in favour (albeit in a moderated defensible manner) of possibly voting Fea. Not that disagreement with you isn't good enough reason to disagree in and of itself.

Your argument--the potential Hakon the Hunter argument--is good, but it strikes me, at least, as unlikely. Unnecessary, too, if we actually have a second bandwaggon competing with the Hakon-waggon, where only one or two votes need to be dumped to shift the balance. Granted, that hasn't shaped up yet, but we've still got over three hours, so I'm not much worried yet.

*has had one bite of supper since his last post. Lucky that it's a cold supper, I guess*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, I'm here. I have six pages to read, but I want to get my vote in right now because I have no idea when the deadline is.

++Pitchwife

Reason - his first post.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Hi everybody, just got up and finished reading through the early morning pages. Doesn't look like I've missed anything of substance, except for discussion of the phantom's little strategy paper, which I need some time to think about. Unfortunately, I'm a bit in a hurry right now and must be off to work, but I'll be back with you shortly after the middle of the Day.
About phantom's proposal to the Bear to join forces against the wolves with us - might work for a time, but if Tame-Eye wants to win, he'll have to turn on us sooner or later, and vice-versa. The same applies to him joining the wolves against us, of course. Reminds me of the old saying: Do not attempt to treat with bears, for you are juicy and good with honey!

Translation - "No, Bear, don't join the innocents against me and my wolf friends, plzkthx."

[Pitchwife]

This is to announce that I won't be able to be around much longer toDay. DL is 5am for me, I've got an appointment in the morning and must get some sleep. Just so you know.

Durelin, pleased to meet you, and sorry for forgetting you in my list, but you hadn't posted then. And I'm glad Form is with us now - talking sober sense, as is his wont.

So I've got to start considering my vote. At the moment, I think it's going to be one of the Hakon-wainriders - but which one?
morm started the whole thing, but has been sound in everything else he said.
alona second, after saying that Hakon would be more quiet as a bear or wolf; also said the surveys suggestion felt weird, after speculating how the surveys may have influenced role-assignment in the same post.
Sally third, but maybe she was just being capricious.
autume fourth, without giving any reason that I can see, after saying earlier that she's suspicious of tp and Rikae (OK, that was in answer to Rikae's question about feelings, I think).
So - ???

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Alright, I'm here. I have six pages to read, but I want to get my vote in right now because I have no idea when the deadline is.

++Pitchwife

Reason - his first post.

Translation - "No, Bear, don't join the innocents against me and my wolf friends, plzkthx."

The deadline is 11 pm EST. Also good point about Pitchwife.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Alright, I'm here. I have six pages to read, but I want to get my vote in right now because I have no idea when the deadline is.

11 pm...you have a little more than 3 hours.

[Rikae]

That settles it for me. Shasta is a wolf-voting machine (he votes for wolves even when he doesn'twant to). I don't agree with his reasons, but as I have reasons of my own and Shasta is psychic (and therefore doesn't need reasons) I'm pretty much sure Pitchwife gets my vote.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Translation - "No, Bear, don't join the innocents against me and my wolf friends, plzkthx."

Is that seriously your reasoning for voting Pitchwife? Other people displayed that same exact attitude far more than he did, so I have trouble believing that's your criteria.

[Rikae]

Actually, though, the way Hakon's latching on to the Pitchwife suggestion and trying to fuel it is a bit odd. I mean, sure, he wants to save himself, but it has such an appearance of going along with the first case that looks like it might go somewhere... I have a bad feeling about it.

[Rikae]

My indecisiveness is really getting out of hand lately - just look at the last game I played. I guess it comes of living with a Libra - it's contagious.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by phantom

I think you disagree with the idea just because I don't. If I had fought strongly against it you'd be more open minded.

Not surprisingly, you think too highly of yourself and your impact on others. You can check my track-record on this sort of thing if you want to look through games. Doesn't matter what I am, I have standards.

Originally Posted by phantom

But seriously, you and Form- I assume you caught the part where I said lynching Fea wasn't our best option, but that she would be useful as a vote dumping ground should our first choice prove disasterous.

And who is going to volunteer to waste their vote for the *possible* good of the village? I like it when people vote for who they are actually suspicious of in some fashion...or are forced to make it seem that way. Also, simply saving our daily (they are still daily, right?) retractions will do the same thing. If a gifted ends up on the lynching block toDay and reveals, I suppose we can all retract and vote Fea but I'd rather be sportier and just go for the next highest vote. Get no satisfaction from lynching a mod-fire.

Originally Posted by phantom

And if I recall Brin also didn't actually advise us to lynch her.

And your point is 'great minds think alike' or something along those lines? Note I called it the 'vote-for-Fea' idea, not 'lynch Fea' idea.

Yes, I always take any bait to argue with anyone...

Lessee...at this point I could vote for phantom, Nessa, Nienna, Brinn...will be making up my mind soon. I guess I'd better look at Pitchwife first as he's the latest target. Also pleased to meet you.

There are too many people in this game I've never played with. Actually that's rather a nice change...no offense... Really there's too many people in this game period...forgot Shasta was playing...well, and Lommy but she hasn't posted of course...