WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Nay, I were doin' no sich thing.

You used it kind of as a counter-argument against your suspicions.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I have some deep reservations about Rikae myself. The previous Day she first brought the case against Shasta that seemed too overblown. She then climbed on the Mira band wagon, and toDay has voted Sally for what she admits is nothing more then 'bad vibes'.

I think there's nothing bad in voting just based on "bad vibes" because in this game there's really not much else to go on. (Although let's not repeat this mantra too much or "much else" will become "nothing else" and it will only benefit the baddies.) In Rikae's case it is slightly interesting, though, as she has been so sure of stuff before. So you may still have a point here.


edit: xed with Kath and Boro

[Rikae]

I think this might be an opportune time to mention that if you lynch me, Sally dies too.

If you leave me for the aggressors toNight (and they decide to go for it) my pick will be Lommy.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I think this might be an opportune time to mention that if you lynch me, Sally dies too.

If you leave me for the aggressors toNight (and they decide to go for it) my pick will be Lommy.

A reveal, hmm? I wasn't aware the axe was that close to falling on you. How many actual votes (not mere suspicions) have you gotten today?

[Thinlómien]

I just wrote a rather lengthy paragraph discussing Rikae's latest post and then realised saying the stuff aloud isn't exactly smart whatever she is. She's giving me a headache, though.

Boro I must say you make a convincing case against Nogrod. I agree his resourcefulness concerning the kill reasons is a bit baffling and it's good you brought it to the spotlight (I had forgotten it). I also like what you say about his "them" thing. However, I'm still hesitant to think he's evil. I think he could have done all of that as a baddie.

++GWATHAGOR

for being a rotten fish.


edit: xed with Zil

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

A reveal, hmm? I wasn't aware the axe was that close to falling on you. How many actual votes (not mere suspicions) have you gotten today?

Well it is a close contest and she's already got 1. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. The hunter is actually usually more dangerous to the wolves known...it's a crew weapon they will want to stay away from. So, unless you're going to refute it, I really can't see why a mutineer would claim to be the hunter, even if one was in trouble. Because the real hunter would have him/her pegged. If Rikae was a mutineer, the ranger would have been a much better bluff.

[Rikae]

I believe you, Inzil, said you were considering voting for me, along with Lommy, and Nerwen did so. Since we have some among us who might like to take the easy route of following the the "known innocent"...

I thought it might be more useful to lay my cards on the table. Now we'll see who would prefer Sally dead, and who would prefer Lommy.

As for questioning me, relax - mine is the one role you'll have confirmed with one lynch or kill (although if I'm killed and the one I take with me claims to be hunter, you won't know which it is - but then it's kind of moot, you'll know one's hunter and one's evil).

EDIT: X'd with Lommy and Boro

[Boromir88]

Would a wolf Gwath not show up for a day? ...just asking

[satansaloser2005]

*blinks sleepily*

What be that, then? A wench tries to send her headache to the depths and she misses everything. What's going on?

(Hey, I'm not going out tonight but I'm feeling completely rubbish. I'll be back to say what I can later, but for now I don't feel up to reading stuffs.)

Best be careful who you be lynching toDay, folks. I'd hate to have the village lose their protector so soon in the voyage as well. I just be sayin'.


(I'll be back later if I can. I'll probably retract, and note that I did say my vote was a placeholder in case I couldn't come back. I still suspect Shasta, but after skimming through the thread I'm pretty sure I won't be up for killing him toDay, in favor of going after someone else.)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Well it is a close contest and she's already got 1. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. The hunter is actually usually more dangerous to the wolves known...it's a crew weapon they will want to stay away from. So, unless you're going to refute it, I really can't see why a mutineer would claim to be the hunter, even if one was in trouble. Because the real hunter would have him/her pegged. If Rikae was a mutineer, the ranger would have been a much better bluff.

I wasn't trying to 'prove' anything. Don't others have more votes at this point? And with several hours to go before DL, does this not seem premature?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boro

Would a wolf Gwath not show up for a day? ...just asking

I would not bet my money I'm right, but I think he's done that before.


edit: xed with Zil again

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I believe you, Inzil, said you were considering voting for me, along with Lommy, and Nerwen did so. Since we have some among us who might like to take the easy route of following the the "known innocent"...

I thought it might be more useful to lay my cards on the table. Now we'll see who would prefer Sally dead, and who would prefer Lommy.

So people voicing mere suspicions of you hours before DL leads you to this?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Best be careful who you be lynching toDay, folks. I'd hate to have the village lose their protector so soon in the voyage as well. I just be sayin'.

And how many actual votes to this point have you had today?
Does no one else find this odd?

[satansaloser2005]

Dun, I didn't say me specifically. I just said to be careful in general.


Sorry, but I'm really out now. Back when I can be, I swears.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And how many actual votes to this point have you had today?
Does no one else find this odd?

Sally's move is odd, but Rikae's isn't.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

So people voicing mere suspicions of you hours before DL leads you to this?

So what's your point? That I'm a wolf? A cobbler? Fine, put your vote where your mouth is, if you don't mind taking the chance Sally dies too (and I can't change my pick until DL, anyway).

[Rikae]

Anybody else find what Inzil's doing here rather fishy, by the way?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So what's your point? That I'm a wolf? A cobbler? Fine, put your vote where your mouth is, if you don't mind taking the chance Sally dies too (and I can't change my pick until DL, anyway).

You've got it. You have one vote at this point, by my count (now two).

++ Rikae

Lynch me if you will. It'll do no good to the loyal crew.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Anybody else find what Inzil's doing here rather fishy, by the way?

I'll get back to you, I'm still thinking about it.

His reaction to your reveal was suspicious, because usually I would expect an ordo to be skeptical but still willing to believe it until there was a reason not to. But his reaction was more of an automatic "I don't believe you" and saying you were being hasty and not in any real trouble.

But then again, the reason I asked you Inziladun, if you were trying to prove something, was not to be snarky, but to simply ask what are you hoping to gain from doubting Rikae's claim so fast?

[Isabellkya]

I'm beginning to think Nerwen is quite furry underneath her Pirate get-up.
I've seen her before when she was a confirmed innocent. She corroborated that Greenie was telling the truth in that she was an innocent. So if you believe Greenie's claim of Seership, then you believe that Nerwen is an innocent. Yet she is hardly acting so innocent. Voting with not much reason? Voting with what seems to be the flow at the time?

Zil, would that be an indirect claim of Wolfship? Last game you "knew" I was innocent because you were furry.

Sally. My biggest grievance with her, is that she found Shasta "funny" on the first day, yet said it wasn't worth while to follow a hunch with a lynch. Yet voted him aways. Then returns toDay and votes him again, without any more reason. Or explanation for her previous actions.

I can understand Rikae's position. I'm fifty-fifty on whether or not to believe it.
Sally on the other hand... I think it hogwash.

Zil questioning reveal(s), and not so adamant to believe them? Erm, he did it when he was furry.

X'd with zil and Boro.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But then again, the reason I asked you Inziladun, if you were trying to prove something, was not to be snarky, but to simply ask what are you hoping to gain from doubting Rikae's claim so fast?

If her neck had actually been in the noose, maybe I could understand the reveal.
By my count, she was not even in the lead for votes!

[Boromir88]

I can understand Rikae's position. I'm fifty-fifty on whether or not to believe it.
Sally on the other hand... I think it hogwash.~Izzy

I'm not saying to not be skeptical, I still think maybe she's a co-conspirator, but she's not a mutineer. A mutineer who makes a hunter claim is a dead one, because the real hunter will know, and a mutineer doesn't have a death warrant. Which is why I told Inziladun, if she was a mutineer she would make a Ranger claim...simply because a ranger can't kill you.

However, I think the bigger question is, why have a knee-jerk that's a "fake claim" reaction. Someone says they are the hunter, and this is the person who will die, you shouldn't automatically react with "that's false," unless that person was the real hunter, or the real hunter did refute it.

[Isabellkya]

Zil.
If you have numerous people voicing that they may vote for you, and DL is approaching. And some have already voiced they wont be back, and have placed their vote. In a game where someone can be lynched with as little as four, maybe even three votes.. or even two for that matter. One as well, if everyone else abstains. The difference between one already made vote, and the discussion of possible.. two, maybe three more. Equals four. At the time, four total would've put her at the lead. I'd have to look back, but if tied.. first person with the tying number gets the noose?

X'd with Boro.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Zil.
If you have numerous people voicing that they may vote for you, and DL is approaching. And some have already voiced they wont be back, and have placed their vote. In a game where someone can be lynched with as little as four, maybe even three votes.. or even two for that matter. One as well, if everyone else abstains. The difference between one already made vote, and the discussion of possible.. two, maybe three more. Equals four. At the time, four total would've put her at the lead. I'd have to look back, but if tied.. first person with the tying number gets the noose?

X'd with Boro.

It still seems way premature to me. For what it's worth, I was leaning toward Annu again.
Boro may be right in that she's only a cobbler. Whether that's enough to make me retract is up in the air.

[Isabellkya]

You also have to take into consideration who is making the reveal/claim, Boro. Are they one bold enough to fake claim? To not?

I agree about the Hunter aspect. However, can't it be a multi-bluff? "Ooh, a wolf would never claim as Hunter because of such and such reason". Yeah they would be dead, only if the wolves killed the Hunter while the Hunter was hunting the outed wolf via fake claim. Would it then be wise for the hunter to out themselves, to reveal an outed wolf. Well then the Wolves would not kill the Hunter. They would leave them alone, thus rending them pretty useless. Unless I suppose they thought the hunter was not hunting one of them - which is a stretch in probability.

X'd with Zil.

[Isabellkya]

If she is a Cobbler, then why not just stay silent; to insure a mis-lynch?

The same could go. If a wolf won't fake claim as Hunter. Why would a Cobbler do so? To try and oust the real Hunter?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

You also have to take into consideration who is making the reveal/claim, Boro. Are they one bold enough to fake claim? To not?

I agree about the Hunter aspect. However, can't it be a multi-bluff? "Ooh, a wolf would never claim as Hunter because of such and such reason". Yeah they would be dead, only if the wolves killed the Hunter while the Hunter was hunting the outed wolf via fake claim. Would it then be wise for the hunter to out themselves, to reveal an outed wolf. Well then the Wolves would not kill the Hunter. They would leave them alone, thus rending them pretty useless. Unless I suppose they thought the hunter was not hunting one of them - which is a stretch in probability.

X'd with Zil.

That's probably true, but usually I don't put that much thought into bluffs and others bluffing...but yes.

For what it's worth...Rikae, I thought you were the ranger based on a post and something else, and if it's ok I can point out why I thought that?

So, if anyone's wondering that's why I believed it fairly quickly.

Edit: Oh, and to totally confirm my thoughts you can say who you hunted on the previous day, but I'm not going to require that unless you want to.

[Rikae]

I find it a bit odd that Izzy is suspecting Nerwen at this juncture. I mean, sure, she could be evil, but there's good reason to focus on others now, as far as I can see - also, the way she's sort of on the fence about me looks baddie-ish. Seems more like a cobbler's diversionary tactics than anything else, though.

Boro, go ahead, why not - assuming it doesn't put the ranger at risk.

[Boromir88]

In 333...when you said this I got a feeling you were either the Ranger or the hunter.

We don't know which of those scenarios we're in, since the ranger or hunter might or might not influence it, but even gaining an extra night phase would help us. Games have been decided in the night phase before. A 50/50 chance on a lynch or ranger/hunter pick on Day//Night x is still better than a shot in the dark on Day 2.

And then in your vote post, you voted for Sally but used the "mug" icon...and I checked your other posts from the day, and you hadn't used an icon. So, I thought, mug--->bree---->Aragorn----->Ranger. Kind of twisted I know.

But also seeing as you have said sally will die if you are lynched, now the hunter makes more sense...as I checked your previous days vote for Shasta and you used the sword icon. But, when you switched to Mira, you used nothing, so I assume if you were lynched yesterday...Shasta would have died?

I haven't checked Day 1's vote, but 2 examples was good enough for me.

[Isabellkya]

Hehehe.
I'm not on the fence about you. I'm on the fence about your claim.


Really, I'm looking to see which way the wind blows in these here sails. Because I'm totally a Cobbler or Wolfy. So if you get lynched and are the Hunter, totally better for me and my mates. But if I'm a Cobbler like you think; then why aren't I trying to get myself lynched? Unless of course I think you my co-Cobbler, and figure.. what they hey. Might as well create a line-up of Cobbler lynches.

[/sarcasm]


Three hours until deadline. I don't see the point in focusing ONLY on others - whom you find good reason to think they deserve focus. Are you guaranteeing that each and everyone of us will be here toMorrow, so we can suitably spread the focus out on everyone else? Distraction tactics much?

[Rikae]

Haha... actually, I was just using the icons more or less randomly. Well, I did think the sword one would sort of imply hunter, though - and, actually, I tried to switch to hunting Shasta (from Eonwe) yesterday, but learned I couldn't.

[Macalaure]

Boro - probably innocent, but misguided about both Nogrod and Inziladun, I think.
Mith - innocent, methinks
Annu - really not sure about him
Lommy - feels pretty innocent
Wilwa - not sure, has escaped my attention so far
Inzy - feel confident about him, didn't find his reaction to Rikae suspicious
Izzy - no alarms
Gwath - I was leaning innocent, but I read a couple of good points about him today, so I'm going to have another look
Rikae - I think she's innocent, and I don't understand where the people that suspected her (pre-reveal) came from
Nogrod - suspicious til mid-Day 2, mounts o' sense afterwards. I think Boro's reasons against him are far-fetched (funnily, usually it's Nogrod who's far-fetched, and Boro who's matter-of-fact)
Sally - not sure, need to make mind up, protector-thing be mighty queer
Kath - probably innocent
Shasta - co-conspirator possibly, but no mutineer
Eonwe - leaning toward innocent
Did I forget someone?

Originally Posted by Boro

I think what Rikae says makes sense, but right now I find it more telling that Nogrod gave a reason for Eomer's death and two others (Mac and Lommy) came in for support as if to say case closed...that is usually a telling sign of wolf (or mutineer behavior).

Just said that I agreed with him. Haven't seen a better explanation than his so far.

Originally Posted by Kath

Mac also agrees with Nog on that ... but then seems to change his mind.

Huh? No. Never changed my mind about it.


About Rikae's reveal. 65% she's honest, 15% she's not the hunter, but still innocent, 15% she's a conspirator (who needn't fear being the hunter's pick), 5% she's a mutineer.

[Rikae]

Wait a minute - you say everyone's innocent.

[Macalaure]

I know!

I'm working on it...

[Macalaure]

About Gwath - reading over his posts from yesterday again now - did anybody else get the impression of a mutineer-mutineer thing with the way he went after Annu? He didn't say anything of consequence the whole day, then makes an analysis and ends up with Annu being his top suspect. Then he takes the first opportunity to opt out of his suspicion (Boro's plead for Mira). He even defends Boro's idea to Inziladun and me. What wonders me most:

First he wrotes this about my vote for Eomer:

I reckon you be feelin' pretty confident about your vote, then?

Then he says:

Well, I be votin' now. I'm awrful suspicious of Annu, but I'm gonna put it off until tomorrer, so:

I don't know about you, but when I'm awfully suspicious of someone, I'm definitely confident enough to lynch the person even if I'm convinced that mathematically someone else's death would be beneficial.

And I only just realised that he hasn't posted today so far. Hmm.

[Isabellkya]

Sally: I find her actions in regards to Shasta a bit suspect.

Rikae: Brief. Short. In terms of reasonings and suspicions.

Lommy: Leaning Innocent.

Zil: Fishy.

Boro: Leaning Innocent.

Wilwa: Nada.

Shasta: Where is he?

Annu: I don't get what the fuss is about.

Mac: Something funny going on between him and Nog. Voting alongside your top suspect?

Nerwen: I find her behavior and lack of reasons for her vote choices suspicious - as previously mentioned/stated.

Kath: Waffling between innocent and nada read.

Gwath: I don't get what the fuss is about.

Nog: Something funny is going on between him and Mac. He isn't normal NogSelf. So I'm inclined to believe he is either a Cobbler or a Wolf.

Mith: Leaning Innocent.

Eonwe: Where is he?



Between Nog, Mac, or Sally. My vote will be placed.

[Gwathagor]

Arr, Mac me mate, I be busy all day ye see. But I be here and ready to read. And it seems I'll have some answerin' to do, as well. No problem thar though.

[Macalaure]

Just had another look at Sally and found nothing that enlightened me. Still wondering about that protector-thing out of nowhere. It makes no sense, but the way she mentioned it doesn't look very cobbler-ish.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Voting alongside your top suspect?

What's so odd about that? People do that all the time. Izzy, I have to say, your lists and opinions have a very... fabricated look about them.

[Macalaure]

Just to see where we're standing right now:

Sally -> Shasta
Nogrod -> Annu
Boro -> Nogrod
Rikae -> Sally
Mith -> Nogrod (2)
Shasta -> Annu (2)
Wilwa -> Gwath
Eonwe -> Gwath (2)
Nerwen -> Rikae
Kath -> Annu (3)
Lommy -> Gwath (3)
Inzy -> Rikae (2)

Annu, Gwath 3, Nogrod, Rikae 2, Shasta, Sally 1

[Inziladun]

I took a break to relax and try to get a clear head. Not much success there.
Right. My problem with Rikae's reveal is I still don't see why it had to be done just then. If she'd made it clear she had to go and wouldn't be back before DL, that might have changed things. But I see she's been posting recently. What gives? Honestly? Coming out with that when she wasn't even in the lead on votes? And no one else seems to be batting an eye.
Sally's remarks were even more bizarre. Since Rikae had cast a vote for her, it muddies the waters even more.
I have a few minutes to see if some burst of enlightenment arrives.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Alright, most likely the last time I can make it on so I'll be voting now. The only one I really feel suspicious of is Gwath, for his vote Day 1 and also for his vote yesterDay, not only was it for Mira (when he was actually suspicious of Annu) but it also seemed like he did it just to kinda go with the crowd and not attract attention. I'm not suspicious of any one else really so this is an easy choice of me.

++Gwathagor

So that'll probably be all from me toDay. See you all tomorrow.

Wilwa clearly be out for some revenge against her shipmate, for votin' for her in Day 1.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

And so, I'm sadly goin' t'vote for me last fellow monke'. Shame that:

++Gwathagor

He's been going with the flow a lot, and not made many points of his own. He is maintaining a low profile even with the number of posts he has, and though he talks a lot, he seems to not say much of substance. I shall have to fill up the powder on my own.

Bandwagon?

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

++GWATHAGOR

for being a rotten fish.

Aye, bandwagon.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I think this might be an opportune time to mention that if you lynch me, Sally dies too.

If you leave me for the aggressors toNight (and they decide to go for it) my pick will be Lommy.

Now Rikae, this be makin' things difficult for me since you be the sensible defensive vote for me, if I want to stay in me skin a few days longer. It's nothin' personal, but you be havin' the next highest number of votes. What to do, what to do...

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Gwath: I don't get what the fuss is about.

I'll ye what happened. Boro made some remarrrrk about how I be disagreein' with his conservative approach yesterday, someone else be sayin' they need to see more from me, and next thing ye know, Wilwa be votin' for me out of revenge. Eonwe (of all people!) comes alongside and accuses me of followin' the obvious flow of opinion among me fellow pirates - this be Captain Obvious Eonwe we be speakin' of here, mind ye! At this point, other scurvy dogs begin to get ideas because they can't think for themselves, they make mention of how they be wonderin' about me, and soon enough, the rest of the crew has got the idea that I've been behavin' in a most peculiar and suspicious mannaarrrr. Ask anymate who's sailed with me beforrre, and they'll tell ye that this how I always be gettin' lynched. Every time. I become the default lynch, to speak uncouthly.