The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

Where are the dragon-lovers?

Eaten by Glaurung. That's the sort of gratitude a dragon expresses.

++Maedhros

I'm not especially fond of dragons but I love Fëanor and his sons.

[Nerwen]

A difficult one. Glaurung's so much cooler than the declawed pet dragons you always seem to get nowadays...

but I've always liked

++Maedhros.

EDIT: fixed typo.

[skip spence]

The deadline has expired and Maedhros steamrolls Glarung by 10 votes to 4.

Match 4 of round 2:

Now for an eagerly anticipated match. Two of the hot favourites to win the Cup will go at it and the winner has a good chance of reaching the final now after Frodo's untimely departure. Saruman made an impressing start to the tournament, knocking Gollum out in the first round. Can he do the same to the mighty Boromir?

Boromir vs. Saruman

[Morthoron]

++Saruman

The dialogues of Saruman are intriguing, more so than those of Boromir (who had to basically die to be a redeemable character). Crows and gibbets!

[Ilya]

++Boromir

He may not be as much fun as Saruman, but his redemption and death cast a shadow over the rest of the books in a way that Saruman's menace never did for me.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Boromir

After all, this is a Popularity poll and Sarman
has almost zero likeability.

[Strongbow]

++Boromir

One does not simply beat Boromir. This being said, Boromir seems more like a real person than many of the other characters because you see multiple dimensions of him.

[Andsigil]

++Boromir

Saruman falls from grace out of weakness. Boromir achieves redemption for his weakness at Amon Hen.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Saruman

Because, if we are to look at this as a popularity contest, Boromir bored me. Saruman, though a nasty sort who reminds me of some of my rather awful relatives, was, to me, more complex and more interesting.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

The dialogues of Saruman are intriguing, more so than those of Boromir (who had to basically die to be a redeemable character).

Now, now. That is pretty nasty towards Boromir. Saruman was great, but Boromir certainly can't be degraded like that. If he were against somebody of less "stature" than Saruman, it would be very probable I would have voted him. He is a very nice and interesting character with a very sad and touching destiny.

But now, I am going to once again shed some light on why I like Saruman so much by putting myself into a dialogue with the posts above

Originally Posted by Ilya

He may not be as much fun as Saruman, but his redemption and death cast a shadow over the rest of the books in a way that Saruman's menace never did for me.

Saruman does not cast a shadow, Saruman emits the shards of broken light which penetrate all the books, from Silm/UT to the LotR. And even in The Hobbit, you can "hear" him there, "sense" him there, as one of the "council of the white wizards"... most fascinating.

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

After all, this is a Popularity poll and Sarman
has almost zero likeability.

If I were to say whom I like the most in Tolkien's world, Saruman would be probably the first one to come on my mind.

Originally Posted by Strongbow

One does not simply beat Boromir. This being said, Boromir seems more like a real person than many of the other characters because you see multiple dimensions of him.

And Saruman does not have multiple dimensions in him? On the contrary! That's what connects him with Boromir, actually, I think. He is the White Wizard, the Maia Curumo in the realms beyond the mortal world, he is the great Head of the Order, the fair man with raven hair and beautiful voice who came to Middle-Earth, he is the landlord who took Isengard into his custody, he is the Enemy of Sauron, and he is the traitor, the master of Uruk-hai and the beggar on the road. He struggles to defeat the Enemy, loses to his pride, struggles with his fear and you can feel how the good inside him is trying to surface still, when Gandalf offers him mercy, and when he imprisons Gandalf and the Black Riders come, and even a bit when he talks to Frodo. Come on, he is just brilliant.

I cannot vote otherwise than for my favourite

++Saruman

[skip spence]

Boromir is a bit annoying, always going on and on about how great and courageous he and his people are. He's also the only non-hobbit of the fellowship I can relate to, and I don't blame him from trying to take the ring, he simply wanted to protect his people and became desperate, doing what he though the least bad of two evils. His only fault (apart from pride) is a lack of faith, Estel I think Tolkien calls it, and that's not really fault at all in my book.

Sauruman is okay but I'd have like to see him doing something Wizard-like once in a while. In the movies he could control the weather from hundreds of miles away which of course was ridiculous, but in the book he can't do anything but hold speeches that turn into bitter tantrums (funny ones though).

++Boromir

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Saruman

Because of his many colours in a time of black and white.

[Lalwendë]

Oh what a choice!!!! I so do not want to knock out the one who I don't choose....

But the choice was made from the start, because I am such a simpering fan...and others compared to him are just brigands who roll in the reek. If you took the figure of Merlin and split it down the middle then one side would be the kindly, cantankerous Gandalf, the other side would be the mysterious and aloof Saruman. He's easily as archetypal a wizard as Gandalf, and more intriguing because he locks himself away in Orthanc doing who knows what kinds of interesting experiments...The 'mad professor' of Middle-earth

++Saruman

[Aganzir]

++skippy

Grrr I hope you're ashamed of yourself for forcing me to choose between Boromir and Saruman!

Not that it was that difficult, I would just have hoped both of them had survived.

There are many things I don't like about Boromir - patriots like that are always a bit scary, putting the needs of their country above their own. However, Gondor was apparently his true love for the good of which he did all his deeds, and who am I to judge that?

I love his pride and his dry sense of humour. Also, he seemed to treat Gandalf and others as his equals - he never indicated he thought he was above them, but neither did he accept without a word everything that Gandalf or Aragorn said. He had a mind and will of his own.

Some day, I'll draw that death scene.

Okay

--skippy

++BOROMIR

[the phantom]

Boromir is great. He's the member of the Fellowship that I can really identify with. I mean, the plan to send the Ring to Mordor was madness, and they avoided capture only through amazing circumstance and in the end the mission failed. Frodo didn't destroy the Ring. Hardly a surprise since at the beginning of the book he was not even capable of throwing the Ring into his cooking fire at Gandalf's request.

Boromir's reaction to the whole thing seems downright sensible, and were I in his position I imagine I would've tried to snatch the Ring just as he did.

Besides being brave, hardy, a great captain, and all that stuff, he was simply one of the most realistic characters in the book.

++Boromir

[mormegil]

I don't much care for either, but I really dislike Boromir so...

++Saruman

[Groin Redbeard]

Ooh, this is a hard choice, I really like both of these characters. However, I shall vote for the character that I most identify with. For king and country!

++Boromir

All my reasons for voting for him are already stated.

[Nogrod]

I'm kind of agreeing with many here that we should eliminate Skip indeed for presenting us with such a choice.

But aren't these two, Saruman and Boromir so much alike?

Both were great heroes of their days and both were confident they could win the war themselves in a way they saw it fit. Also they both had to perform a treachery on their friends to succeed - and they both died because of that (remember that most of the heroes do survive the war in the LotR unlike in more modern stories).

I do like Boromir as a person more but I find Saruman much more fascinating. And also because there will be an ample Boromir -fan club around I will try to even this out a bit.

++ Saruman

[skip spence]

It was close but in the end Boromir won by 8 votes to 7. Saruman will have to scurry away and cause trouble elsewhere.


Now for two character accounted wise. One is, according to Lal anyway, a non-violent hippy-meister who invites his weird friends to his homely house. The other has the biggest eyebrows in the free world and one of the worse tempers too. According to some sources he eats Hobbits.

Gandalf vs. Elrond

[Thinlómien]

++Gandalf

No question. Such a gentle and wise person with amazing sense of humour and a temper that gives him an edge.

[Andsigil]

++Elrond

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Gandalf

There is no contest in this for me, regardless of who he's up against. When you're a much abused kid and you have to turn to books for a proper role-model, the one who provides it will forever have a more than merely special place in your heart. That consideration aside, Gandalf is at turns rather predictable and astonishingly unpredictable. And when the war was over, though he was largely responsible for moving the free peoples toward victory, he didn't go around hogging credit. He did the job he was sent to do, and when it was done, he surrendered his stewardship without any apparent regret or complaint. "Well done, thou good and faithful servant." Would that our so-called "public servants" did their jobs half so well, with half as much humility.

That said, Elrond's a good steward, too, but he did not have to bear the weight of the future of all Middle-earth as Gandalf did. He also did what was needed (and perhaps asked) of him, and did it well. There likely would have been no king to whom Gandalf could surrender his stewardship, but for Elrond; even so, without Gandalf, there would have been no Middle-earth free of Sauron's threat for that king to rule.

Rather an unfair match-up, I think, but it does not change my vote.

[Morthoron]

++Gandalf

What a delightfully irritable old coot!

[Ilya]

++Gandalf

For his sense of humor, if nothing else.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

++Gandalf

No question for me. He is just a great fellow.

And I have to comment on the way Saruman was outed - that surprised me, actually. Before the match started, I thought that he is going to be an obvious winner from the beginning till the very end. But not that I mind - it has actually eliminated the possibility I was worried about all the time: that eventually, I will have to choose between Saruman and Galadriel, and I really don't know what would I do.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And I have to comment on the way Saruman was outed

Saruman is outed!? Saruman of many colours of the Rainbow, eh?


++Gandalf

Elrond is out of his league here.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Saruman is outed!? Saruman of many colours of the Rainbow, eh?

Ha ha ha!

++Gandalf

I just like him more than Elrond.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

The whloe rumor of Gandalf's eating hobbits is based on
a misconception, based on a comment by a distant
(and probably tipsy) relative of Thranduil's butler, reported in the Red Book.

Jst Look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear!
Isn't it delicious

+ + Gandalf the maia

[Lalwendë]

It's got to be...

++Grandalf

Not only one of the most famous pipe smokers ever, but sarcastic too. Bonus! And he's actually much more of a crusty old hippy than Elrond, he doesn't even have a house, he just crashes on other people's sofas for generations of Men and wanders round with unkempt beard and hair and a mucky old cloak. No wonder they turned him into Gandalf the White, he probably needed a bath.

[mormegil]

++Gandalf

I like him but the fact that Elrond allows elfs who sing 'Tra-la-la-lally' makes me dislike him.

[Groin Redbeard]

++Gandalf

Elrond may have been active in his early life but he has turned to a man of just words in the FotR, no matter how wise he is. Gandalf is a man of actions and words, and is much older than Elrond.

[Andsigil]

Poor Elrond is getting thumped.

No points for his glorious past?

[Nerwen]

Nope.

++Gandalf.

[Strongbow]

++Gandalf

Because, he is a Maia. All Elrond has is famous parents and a famous brother.

[Eönwë]

++Gandalf

Just who else would you want hitting your door with their staff?

[skip spence]

Wow, Gandalf really mopped the floor with the hapless Elrond. 14-1 is an embarrassing result to take back to Rivendell, even at the hands of the ever so popular Grey Pilgrim.

Match 6 of Round 1:
That there will be a female presence in the quarter-finals is guaranteed, because in the next matchup Galadriel will face Lúthien. These two must have known each other well back the Hidden Kingdom. Do you think they got along?

Lúthien vs. Galadriel

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Actually I think Galadriel was more into
girl talk with Melian.

Difficult choice, but I think one of the tallest
of the Noldor, and one who didn't take any
nonsense from Feanor, has a better chance
against the Grey Pilgrim. So
+ + Galadriel

[Strongbow]

++Galadriel

Tinuviel might have been magical, but did she have Haldir and her own country? I think not!

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Luthien

Because she managed to do one thing Galadriel did not: make at least one of the Valar change his mind. Maybe it was pride that got in the way for Galadriel, but Luthien still managed to pull it off.

[Aganzir]

++Galadriel

It's that pride that I like, and her life in general and all. She's a character whom I admire, but not a favourite character or anything (which is strange since she very well could be).