WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[Aganzir]

I daresay it's clear enough that Mac is a wolf and Spm something alike. No need to try to convince us of anything else...

Mac the seer, please sacrifice yourself with greater dignity.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Mac

I don't like this sort of argument. I don't like it at all. It's the worst kind of meta and vague speculative reasoning I have ever seen. Not only do we not know how Rikae chose her roles, of course, but discussing it is simply wrong. It might even lead to the right conclusion in the end, but it shouldn't be part of in-game arguments, and as far as I remember it has never been so far in past games.

Ok, sorry sorry. Rikae, hit me with a hammer from above (PM) if you agree with Mac about that post being too much out-game.

Like I (probably) said before, it is in no way an argument and I'm not trying to convince anybody with it, not even everybody except you, Mac and SPM.

[Anguirel]

Yup. So, I'm not all that interested in what's going on, I like alarming people a bit, and I thought Volo's last couple of posts were silly in innumerable ways.

--KATH, ++VOLO

Whatevah. I'm going to go and reminisce with the ghost of my dear wife about the good old days when "lots of Gifteds" meant Seer-Hunter-Ranger...

[Volo]

So, I'm probably dead. Thanks a lot.

But what I do want to hear is if you think that the end of the post #357 is against the rules. Because if it is, I'm not going to do so anymore, and I'll delete that part (though that would probably also be illegal...).

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I'm not all that interested in what's going on

Spoilsport.

[Rikae]

A voice from beyond the grave:

Leave it the way it is, but please refrain from meta-discussion in the future - it's bad form.

I would also like to add that posts should not be edited except to note cross-posts.

Carry on.

[Volo]

Lynch Ang and umm... hopefully Shasta if you still can in the next Days. This is so confusing that I can't find anything to say about Kath and Diamond anymore. I hope whatever your role, you don't make the game harder for the Innocents to solve by voting me.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Rikae

A voice from beyond the grave:

Leave it the way it is, but please refrain from meta-discussion in the future - it's bad form.

I would also like to add that posts should not be edited except to note cross-posts.

Carry on.

Ok, thanks, and sorry.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Volo

But what I do want to hear is if you think that the end of the post #357 is against the rules.

No, I don't consider it to be against the rules. Bad form, even for a Wolf or Cobbler, but not against the rules.

In my view, it should stand as the evidence it represents (ie highly damning). Your suggestion that such evidence might be destroyed is simply another indication of your bad intent, as far as I am concerned.

Have you ever heard the saying:

Oh what a complex web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive.

Edit: Crossed with the voice from above et seq

[Volo]

You say that I and Legate are Wolves. Who is the last Wolf then? And no, that isn't a confession.

[Volo]

My turn to be talkative is it?

Well, how do you explain this:

Originally Posted by Rikae

In one trailer, a Downer flipped randomly through a copy of LOTR, then, finding something, sat back and frowned, deep in thought.

[Aganzir]

No use, Volo. They know as well as you who is lying. It's all about time now. They still have a slight chance to win, so of course they want to lynch you.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Volo

You say that I and Legate are Wolves. Who is the last Wolf then?

I cannot be sure that you are a Wolf. You may well be the Cobbler, for all I know. Neither can I be sure of the remaining Wolf or Wolves, although I have some ideas. One step at a time, though. I have two baddies in my sights at the moment, as you well know.

Originally Posted by Volo

Well, how do you explain this:

What, the narrative that you picked up on as part of your ruse? I have no idea. Perhaps it relates to Lommy's role, as we have no clear idea how it worked. Or possibly it is an element of the Cobbler role. Indeed, that would make sense if you are the Cobbler.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

What, the narrative that you picked up on as part of your ruse? I have no idea. Perhaps it relates to Lommy's role, as we have no clear idea how it worked. Or possibly it is an element of the Cobbler role. Indeed, that would make sense if you are the Cobbler.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Two trailers were watched by unseen eyes that night; but for what purpose I cannot say.

Doesn't that sound more like the typical Ranger-text...

And how do you manage to relate this ("In one trailer, a Downer flipped randomly through a copy of LOTR, then, finding something, sat back and frowned, deep in thought.") to a Cobbler?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Volo

And how do you manage to relate this ("In one trailer, a Downer flipped randomly through a copy of LOTR, then, finding something, sat back and frowned, deep in thought.") to a Cobbler?

How the heck should I know? Perhaps you could elaborate, although don't worry - I can wait 'til the afterthread.

One thing I do know, however, is that section of narrative does not get anywhere near to establishing your claim. And with all the evidence in favour of your claim being a false one, I have little doubt now that you are malign.

I don't propose debating with you any further. There's no point, given your alignment.

[Anguirel]

I think Volo's almost certainly truthful, but he was getting a tad smug, and the wolves will be pretty clear whether he's innocent or guilty...this may seem like an exciting day, but it's actually pretty mundane. The essential battle has already been fought.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I think Volo's almost certainly truthful, but he was getting a tad smug, and the wolves will be pretty clear whether he's innocent or guilty...

Well thanks. Wouldn't it have been easier just to tell me that I'm being smug and ask me to stop doing that. And now people will think of you as Innocent because you do think that I am truthful... After all, it does make more sense to vote the person who you think of as the Wolf than the person who you feel offencive.

this may seem like an exciting day, but it's actually pretty mundane.

I do agree with this, but still, it isn't a reason to say that you don't care and effect the game in a way "that wouldn't be the way you would do if you played seriously".

I appologise for fitting this pretty much out-of-game rant into the middle of the game, but a rant is a rant, when you rant, you rant.

[Anguirel]

What would life be, my friends, without devious rascals who meddle just for the fun of it and cause a lot of trouble, not least for themselves?

The answer - it would be a life without Anguirel in it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm beginning to think Ang is the real cobbler....

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ad Ang: Yeah, but you should not vote him just in case someone else turns mad (ha, ha *someone*) and votes him as well. Anyway, I'm leaving toDay, so just in case I'm dead overnight, an advice:

Try to play it on being sure. If you are to lynch someone, then try to lynch primarily:
1. A known Wolf,
2. If you don't have a known Wolf, then it's safer to lynch the known Cobbler, because in a small village a Cobbler almost equals a Wolf, since he can participate in voting. He still counts as Innocent, however, but if the balance is equal, you have to lynch a Wolf and not him, of course. In case it's not already late.
3. If you have nothing of the above, then lynch a likely Wolf.

***********
And, also, I think I was quite a good target for the Wolves, being so vocal and all. So one of the supporting points when decising who is a Wolf and who not might be based upon who voted for me, or at least spoke against me.
This point is also based on that I think - here please note that I don't know if I'm not assuming too much (as I know myself, I probably am) - but they might have thought me a Seer. If anyone, then Mac probably could: he has a habit of pointing out things (to his comrades, probably) and on Day 1, he reacted on my first post like this (boldening mine):

Originally Posted by Mac

Idle monologues? Look who's talking...

Maybe I'm indeed assuming too much, but I don't see why would Mac quote especially this point. This would mean he'd tell about it also to his comrades later - so they could be specifically aimed against me. Though they probably wouldn't vote for me all (to be not all suspicious), some might. E.g. Shasta's vote, her only post on Day 2, might have been influenced by the thought that I am likely to be killed and her vote will only help it, without him having much problems with it, since he wasn't here all the day, so he "just voted, and all is ok, right?"
But once again, I'm known for overcombining thoughts, so... just what do you yourselves think of it.

Also seeing now what Ang said about Volo, I am somehow supported in my suspicions that Ang's attempt to speak to me "O Curunír, old friend..." was a (rather silly) trick to play this on me. Though I'd like friendly Celeborn, this was fishy, and if you are indeed innocent Ang, you are making unbelievable mess with acting like this.

But, double-think everything I said here, these are just assumptions (everything under the stars). That's just for the case the Wolves choose to try to sway the balance to get rid of me toNight.

Bye, and hopefully toMorrow.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Shasta

I'm beginning to think Ang is the real cobbler....

Says someone who voted for Volo just that the wolves could finish him off toNight...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I'm beginning to think Ang is the real cobbler....

On the other hand, this looks quite nice for Shasta, because what he says looks logical. But what about the sentence Volo got? It looks much more like Cobbler. And if Shasta is a wolf, this might be a move to try to make us switch a Wolf for a Cobbler. But if I say one more sentence, then I'll die from overcombination and ambivalence, so I'm leaving, bye.

[Macalaure]

Anguirel, to be honest, I would have preferred to get your vote if you're so certain about the falseness of my claim. I'm honestly sorry that this game has lost its appeal to you.


Legate, I was pointing out that line of yours to show that you were not practicing what you were preaching. You wanted to keep people from doing "idle monologues", yet you were one of the worst who did.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Guys, the emoticon at the end designates that yes, my comment was just a joke.

I gotta wonder why certain people overreacted, though...

[Macalaure]

Well, I hoped that Kath and Di would return before the deadline and maybe retract their votes, but my hope is beginning to fade now.

Farewell sweet earth and northern sky.

[Gil-Galad]

i'm confused but heck


--Mac

++Volo

[Kath]

I'm here, but I don't wish to change my vote.

See, whatever happens Mac, you're dead. Even if you are the Seer the wolves will know that and you're dead toNight.

But Volo with his extra life clause isn't dead if we don't lynch him. He can survive the Night and give us one more dream if he is the Seer.

[Macalaure]

Wait, is it Volo 5, Mac 5 now?

[Aganzir]

Yes.

[Macalaure]

Actually, I'm pondering to retract my vote to whoever, because I don't feel like Volo deserves Ang's vote. It doesn't seem fair.

[Volo]

Yeah... Well.

Trust Legate and Aganzir whatever happens!

SPM is probably the Cobbler (but might be Wolf).

I'm unsure about Anguirel, but he might be a Wolf.

Oh, heck, the rest of you could also be Wolves... :/

Use your head and don't trust anybody except Legate and Aganzir!

[Kath]

Do it quick then Mac, don't leave us with a double lynch.

[Rikae]

Oh no you don't!

You have lynched Mac and Volo.

Narration...shortly.

[Macalaure]

--Volo

++Legate HA!


edit: DAMMIT

[Volo]

Hey comeone, he's still 9:00 PM

[Rikae]

With two of their number claiming to be seers, there was only one thing to do...kill them both and let God(ess) sort 'em out.
Some of the Downers' hearts were softened by the impassioned arguments of the handsome and charming Macalaure...

...but not enough of them.

Anguirel, who happened to have the knife bequeathed to him by his assassin grandfather, grew bored with the arguments. “this may seem like an exciting day, but it's actually pretty mundane”, he remarked, and casually tossed the knife at Macalaure. It was still sharp, and embedded itself deep in the self-proclaimed seer's leg. Mac, who seemed strangely amused by the proceedings, pulled the knife back out of his thigh and proceeded to lick the blood off it with great delight...

...this repulsive performance was halted by the robot Treebeard (and Legate, with his remote control). The giant ent-foot came down upon Macalaure with a sickening crunch – blood spurted in all directions, and Legate applauded...

...but when Treebeard's foot lifted again, Macalaure, though no longer quite so handsome, was still twitching. Aganzir, thinking quickly, grabbed an axe and embedded it in his nervous system...

...but this only had the effect of enraging the 7th orc, who struggled to his feet and lashed out at Volo. His fingernails suddenly lengthened and grew clawlike; his teeth took on the appearance of fangs; and it seemed to the onlookers that he was slightly...hairier.
Kath tripped the switch on one of the trebuchets, hurling a chunk of Minas Tirith at the creature with incredible force. It hit its target, and the Downers cheered...
...until Macalaure crawled out of the crater in the floor, grinning wolfishly, and spit on the piece of architecture that had failed to hurt him in the slightest.

Aganzir swung the axe once again, lopping off his arm, but the semi-lupine son of Fëanor simply took the limb in his other hand, lit it on fire, and pursued Volo brandishing his makeshift torch.
Volo paused in front of a door marked “danger: inflammable”. “Does that mean it does burn, or it doesn't?” he mused – but as the tenacious Macalaure had nearly reached him, he had no time to ponder the matter any longer, but opened the door and stepped to the side.

The now fully transformed Wolfalaure had no time to stop, and plunged headlong into a room full of gunpowder with a lit “torch” in hand.

There was, for the second time in the filming, a deafening explosion, and warg-parts rained down upon the cast and crew.

“Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!” Gil-Galad gloated...

but before the words were out of his mouth, a swarm of green termites came out of NOWHERE and devoured what was left of Macalaure.

You have lynched the mod's lover. Game over. Village loses. Wolves lose. Lovers lose.
Just kidding.

“You're immortal anyway, right?” Gil comforted Volo.

“Um...well...”

“Why don't we work it into the filming?” Di suggested, so they dragged Andy Serkis' successor to the Mount Doom set (complete with Real Molten Lava *tm). “Now just trip and fall, Volo. We'll see who's right, and who is dead...”

But Volo hesitated on the edge. “I'm not...I mean...”

“Cold feet? Let me help you!” cried SpaM, and with a running tackle, he shoved the Medium over the edge.

“Well, that wasn't exactly canonical...” Shasta remarked.

Volo sank into the lava, and vanished. Ashes floated to the top. His bluff had failed...

...but a ring of smoke rose from the lava and circled among the Downers, as if examining them. After stopping at each in turn, it slowly dissolved in their midst.

Day 4 is over. Night 5 descends. Do your thing.

The Cast and Crew

Reached the finish line:

Rikae (Mod) – CG Animator, Rendered and Lighted on Night1
The Sixth Wizard (Ordo) – Protester against Dwarven Comic Relief, Buried in Skulls on Day1
Mithalwen (Ordo) Galadriel– Illuminated...(Electrocuted) on Night2
Boromir88 (Ordo)- Sir Boromir, playing Denethor- Set a record for sprinting while on fire on Day2
Durelin (Ordo)- Special Effects Pyrotechnician-Burst over Bywater on Night3
Thinlómien (Ranger/Assassin)- Non-Winged Balrog-Took a little tumble on Night3
Brinniel (Wolf)-Wacky Foley Artist – Made a lot of noise on Day3
Xyzzy (Ordo)- Young Fanboy-Left breathless on Night4
Rune (Ranger/Spy)-Tolkien geek who is ecstatic about being an Elf extra - got out of character on Night4
Macalaure (Wolf)- The 7th orc in the 3rd row - Proved remarkably difficult to kill on Day4
Volo (Medium) - Gollum - Pushed, didn't fall on Day4

Lagging behind:

Legate of Amon Lanc - Sound Master/Saruman
Shastanis Althreduin - Legolas' stunt double
The Saucepan Man- Set Catering Manager
Anguirel- Celeborn
Kath - Make-up Artist
Gil-Galad - Zombie-Gil-Galad
Aganzir - Smeagol
Diamond18 - Lady in charge of Wigs and all other False Hairpieces

[Rikae]

The dwindling cast and crew awoke on Day 5 to find Legate missing, and his favorite bowling ball at the bottom of the swimming pool; but what became of the Sound Master you shall never know; that scene has been left out of this narration because the mod felt it was not essential to the plot, and might confuse people who had never read the book.

They did, however, find ribbons of human flesh strewn all over the cutting room floor. Apparently, the voice of Saruman had had little impact on the two remaining wargs...

Night5 is over, Day5 has begun. Commence killing each other now!

The Cast and Crew

Shuffled off this mortal coil:

Rikae (Mod) – CG Animator, Rendered and Lighted on Night1
The Sixth Wizard (Ordo) – Protester against Dwarven Comic Relief, Buried in Skulls on Day1
Mithalwen (Ordo) Galadriel– Illuminated...(Electrocuted) on Night2
Boromir88 (Ordo)- Sir Boromir, playing Denethor- Set a record for sprinting while on fire on Day2
Durelin (Ordo)- Special Effects Pyrotechnician-Burst over Bywater on Night3
Thinlómien (Ranger/Assassin)- Non-Winged Balrog-Took a little tumble on Night3
Brinniel (Wolf)-Wacky Foley Artist – Made a lot of noise on Day3
Xyzzy (Ordo)- Young Fanboy-Left breathless on Night4
Rune (Ranger/Spy)-Tolkien geek who is ecstatic about being an Elf extra - got out of character on Night4
Macalaure (Wolf)- The 7th orc in the 3rd row - Proved remarkably difficult to kill on Day4
Volo (Medium) - Gollum - Pushed, didn't fall on Day4
Legate of Amon Lanc (Ordo)- Sound Master/Saruman - Cut from the theatrical version on Night5

Didn't (yet):

Shastanis Althreduin - Legolas' stunt double
The Saucepan Man- Set Catering Manager
Anguirel- Celeborn
Kath - Make-up Artist
Gil-Galad - Zombie-Gil-Galad
Aganzir - Smeagol
Diamond18 - Lady in charge of Wigs and all other False Hairpieces

[Aganzir]

If we lynch an ordo toDay, we're going to lose.

Therefore I suggest that in the improbable case that we don't find a wolf we lynch Spm. Probably the Cobbler (unless a wolf), but it will give us one Day more as he won't be around to mess things up.

Gil, why did you retract from Mac to Volo?
Kath, please forgive me if I say it's really hard to believe you would have believed Mac even much enough to be that confused.
Di, I guess you, too, should have known better than to be confused if the liar was Mac or Volo.

Those were not accusations but questions.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by What Volo got to know about Spm

'But if you want to be introduced to our chief investigator, I can produce him.'
'Where is he?' said Frodo, looking round, as if he expected a masked and sinister figure to come out of a cupboard.

Now that I'm thinking it I can't see how this would point to the Cobbler rather than to a Wolf. I think Spm started his Cobblerish behaviour only after Volo's revelation. Of course a Wolf wants to avoid being voted off for wolvishness.
Who's the Cobbler then, I'm not sure, but maybe we should seriously consider Spm toDay. At least we won't lose if we lynch him now.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

If we lynch an ordo toDay, we're going to lose.

Therefore I suggest that in the improbable case that we don't find a wolf we lynch Spm. Probably the Cobbler (unless a wolf), but it will give us one Day more as he won't be around to mess things up.

that is contradictery there, if we lynch the cobbler, we still lower our chances of capturing the wolf... our best bet is wolf, ignore the cobbler and focus on the wolf. i don't like that sentence... i'm sorry but that has wolfish written all over it.




there is 7 of us left

if we lynch cobbler, that is 6, then by the day we are down to 5...

i must say that if we all agree SPM is the cobbler, then push him aside and focus on the wolf, we win if the wolf is dead, we needn't worry about the cobbler

Gil, why did you retract from Mac to Volo?

because i was really unsure of either of them, and to play it safe, double lynching helps us rather then take the chance of allowing another wolf to live and cause more mayhem, now only one wolf lives he/she will have trouble deciding who to kill because now he/she won't have any second opinion


now my question to you Aganzir, why are you so strong on getting rid of the cobbler if we know who he is? you surely must know that if we waste todays lynch on the cobbler then that gives the wolf another day to strike.

best rule in dealing with the cobbler, ignore him/her


in conclusion,

leave the cobbler alone and ignore him
focus on the last wolf and win this game

[Anguirel]

Remember Aganzir is a proven innocent, Gil.

I behaved like a cad yesterday on all levels. I can only plead that I'm playing a part in an exciting new mini-series where I portray a massively overworked schoolboy, and it's quite tiring.

I hope to be a lot more helpful and talkative today. I do agree that Sauce could easily be a wolf not a cobbler.

Today is a day when analysis will actually pay off. There are no longer revelations to distract us; work hard and play hard and we'll prevail.

I still think Kath and Diamond are wolves. Nyah.