Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards Werewolf

[littlemanpoet]

Cailín's and Alcarillo's preferences in names were a mystery to the rest of the residents of Sealville. "Theph Antom?" Saucy had asked. "What is that, a variant on phlegm and spit?" "Now, Saucy," Celuien would say, "you shouldn't say such things. How do you ever expect his parents to give you business?" "At least they didn't mess up on that younger son," Saucy had been known to say, "Good solid name from the eastern parts. Where they ever heard of such a name I couldn't say, but 'Eomer' just has a better ring to it than 'Theph'." Saucy would shake his head.

Theph Antom, son of Alcar Illo, left town as soon as he could. He left a pimply, pale, self-conscious teen who always cringed when others would mock his name and compare it to spit, phlegm, and things yet worse. "He'll probably die in a rat hole somewhere," Lalaith had said once.

When he returned to Sealville, the residents at first did not realize it was the same person. Confident he was, swaggering he walked, and called himself "The phantom". Eyebrows rose. "Better way to cut the name up," Saucy had commented. "Has a ring to it," Lalaith admitted. "What that new twist has in it," growled Sleepy, 'is a darkness, something not altogether of the day, if you take my meaning." Diamond agreed with Sleepy, and liked the change even less when the phantom took a liking to her middle daughter.
"He's reckless, arrogant, and altogether too adventurous for Zali. No good will come of it, you'll see," she proffered, or prophesied, depending on who remembered her words and how they took them.

Naria, now, she didn't seem to cast more than a half a glance at the phantom, so busy she was with her own simple life. "Chamber pots," commented Lalaith, rolling her eyes. "Who on earth would choose such a job?" "Well don't you know," gossiped Roa, "Saucy and Celuey never paid her enough attention. Neglected the poor thing, made her think she was worth no more than what you find in chamber pots, so it was natural she'd take to them." "You're weaving yet another odd tale, Roa," said Diamond.

The long and the short of it was that the entire village was aghast, surprised, and benumbed the morning of the new day when they found Naria and the phantom arm in arm, body to body, tight as lovers, lying at the foot of the Watcher rock. They weren't moving. They were both dead. The phantom's hand was still on a knife in the throat of Naria. Naria's now human teeth were still on the torn throat of the phantom.

~ The Tally ~

One evil wizard
One good wizard
Two werewolves
One seer

~ The Dead ~

Elempi, father of Diamond of the Battledore, killed on Night One
Loki the leech collector, lynched on Day One: innocent
The Saucepan Man the barkeep, killed on Night Two: innocent
Nogrod the retired jester, lynched on Day Two: werewolf
the phantom the loud, unpredictable, adventurer: hunter
Naria the servant who empties and cleans chamber pots: werewolf

~ The Living ~

Diamond of the Battledore
Celuien the Healer and Cupper
Caranlondien the Sled-Team Driver
Roa Aoife the weaver
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant the Baker
Kath the minstrel
Lommy the little girl who steals other children's candy
Lhunardawen the jeweler
Glirdan with the giant crush on Kath
Valier the gardener
Sleepy Ranger the former wanderer
Kitanna the beloved of Eomer
Firefoot the artist
Alcarillo the old retired sea captain
Cailín the match maker
Oddwen the filthy, insane street urchin who steals chickens
mormegil the retired mariner and current mayor
Feanor the shepherdess with a love of alliteration
Zali the seamstress and beloved of the phantom
Jenny Hallu the unmarried maiden & aunt
Lalaith the frivolous aunt and guardian of Oddwen
Eonwe the freeloading husband of Lhunardawen
Eomer the adventurer & lover of Kitanna
Nilpaurion the ne'er do well hubby of Dancing Spawn
Gurthang the stable-hand

[Celuien]

I can't believe it. My child a werewolf and the phantom dead. Though it was my own girl, I am glad that the phantom realized what she was. Still, I would have preferred her to be uncursed than slain.

I know that things look a might odd for me. I defended my girl on the first day and was hesitant to vote for Nogrod. With a record of defending what turned out to be two wolves, I must look like the evil wizard. I'm not. I defended Naria on the first day of this madness only because she was my daughter. Nogrod had me fooled until Roa's insight. But if someone comes out strongly saying that I am the EW, I'd suspect that person of actually being the EW trying to deflect attention onto me.

I wonder. Was there anyone else who defended them? Assuming that Naria was not a newly changed wolf (and being quiet, I'd assume she was one of the original wolves), someone who defended both over the first two days could be the EW. Only the EW knew that they were both wolves, after all. Something for me to look into.

[Firefoot]

Well, I'd say that was lucky indeed. phantom, you will be missed, but you have our thanks for ridding this village of another werewolf. Naria, huh? I'd like to know what brought that choice about... I'll be honest and say I can remember absolutely nothing about her. I'll have to go back and check that out sometime. But a fortunate pick nevertheless.

As for Nogrod... well, consulting my lorebooks, yep, my ancestors have had pretty poor luck recognizing wolves too. A family of unwitting cobblers we are. And my own father, too! What a horrible curse this is upon our village!

The final count of yesterDay's voting:

Valier – 1 (Nilp 1)
Lalaith – 2 (Celuien 2, Oddwen 3)
Nogrod – 11 (Diamond 4, Thinlomien 7, Roa 8, Morm 9, Kath 11, Caran 12, Kitanna 15, Eomer 14, Gurthang 19, Azaelia 21, Alcarillo 23)
Roa – 2 (Fea 5, Firefoot 24)
Fea – 1 (Sleepy 6)
Oddwen – 6 (Spawn 10, Cailin 16, Lalaith 17, Nogrod 18, Naria 20, Valier 22)
Nilp – 1 (phantom 13)

Did not vote: Glirdan, Lhuna, Jenny, Eonwe

It's a shame that we don't know whether Naria was a wolf prior to this last night when she died. Maybe it would help, maybe it wouldn't. But as for people who defended Nogrod and Naria possibly being the EW - not necessarily. Remember, we don't know how long they've been wolves. Not that it shouldn't be used; but it's not infallible. (Okay, nothing in this game is infallible...)

I'm a little curious as to why the GW chose a hunter before a ranger... I would think the ranger would be more useful, but I suppose s/he had their reasons. This time around it certainly proved fortuitous.

[Kath]

Oh well done phantom! If this were a normal game we'd be well on the way to winning by now

It seems most of the village will be going back and looking at Naria's posts after this, I don't recall her saying a great deal though.

Post 40:
In character comments.

Post 42:
Answers phantom's question about what the wizards fear - each other.

Posts 46/7/8:
Joking, thanks phantom for explaining the GW and EW and says she's off.

Post 137:
Suspects Nogrod, phantom and dad (who is dad?). If she's an original wolf as someone suggested I'm not sure she would go after Nogrod quite so strongly. A good bluff to be sure, but still. Though at this time she wouldn't have known it would start such a bandwagon so it could have been a relatively safe option. Also suspects Sauce (unless he is her dad, I'm so confused!) as his posts aren't as insightful as normal. We know Sauce was innocent so anyone she has said this about may be likely to be innocent as well. Says she doesn't suspect Loki.

Post 155:
Voted Nogrod.

Post 371:
Defends her and others quietness. Says she has some suspicions and will return with a reasoned vote.

Post 348:
Voted Oddwen because she didn't vote the day before and barely had a reason for voting this day. In hindsight it does look like she's trying not to be involved with Nogrod, and trying to get the Oddwen bandwagon up and running again.

I hope thats of some help to those of you better at analysis and me and less tired! I'll be back tomorrow when hopefully my brain will start working again, and I won't have to sit thinking hard on how to spell right

[Lalaith]

Astonishing. And quite brilliant. Well done, good team....

I'm a little curious as to why the GW chose a hunter before a ranger

As to that, Firefoot, I'm wondering whether the GW had got some werewolf sniffs and so created a Hunter that he knew was likely to die soon at the hands of the wolves.
In any case, Phantom was a good choice to scry: if he was the EW, best to know quickly; if he was a wolf, better to have him back on the right side; and if you were to give him a gift, give him Hunter because it's a gift you need to die to use.

I must go to sleep now (midnight BST) and will join you all in a few hours.

[Lalaith]

Oh one last thing, as I cross-posted with Kath:

In hindsight it does look like she's trying not to be involved with Nogrod,

Kath, as far as I understand the rules, Naria wouldn't know that Nogrod was a fellow wolf. She might have guessed, of course...is that what you mean?

[Firefoot]

Kath, as far as I understand the rules, Naria wouldn't know that Nogrod was a fellow wolf. She might have guessed, of course...is that what you mean?

The wolves do not necessarily know who the other wolves are - but the EW has the power to tell them. I think most of us have just assumed that it would be in the better interest of the baddies for the wolves not to know each other.

[Firefoot]

No, sorry, that's wrong. My understanding of the rules was wrong - I went back and checked; wolves do not know who each other are. Gah, should have looked before posting.

That's good to know. I had been assuming that they might or they might not. Certainty is always good...

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Kath

Post 137:
Suspects Nogrod, phantom and dad (who is dad?). If she's an original wolf as someone suggested I'm not sure she would go after Nogrod quite so strongly. A good bluff to be sure, but still. Though at this time she wouldn't have known it would start such a bandwagon so it could have been a relatively safe option. Also suspects Sauce (unless he is her dad, I'm so confused!) as his posts aren't as insightful as normal. We know Sauce was innocent so anyone she has said this about may be likely to be innocent as well. Says she doesn't suspect Loki.

Naria's dad was Saucy.

Naria might still have been an original wolf. The wolves don't have to know each other's identities, so even if Naria and Nogrod were both wolves that first day, she could have accused him accidentally.

Couldn't find anyone who defended both of them. Of course, Naria did say so little that she never really came under enough suspicion to warrant a defense.

About the phantom:

Phantom's death last night I think makes it even less likely that Nilp is a wolf (or EW). Phantom advertised to become the Hunter yesterday and voted for Nilp. Had Nilp been a wolf, knowing that tp was a good candidate to become the Hunter, I doubt the wolves would have chosen him for a kill. Or have been allowed to choose him, as the Hunter's failure would have revealed the EW to the village.

Finally, Roa definitely seems innocent to me after what happened with Nogrod yesterday. I seriously doubt a wolf-Roa would have attacked him so strongly yesterday.

EDIT: crossed with 365 on.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

No, sorry, that's wrong. My understanding of the rules was wrong - I went back and checked; wolves do not know who each other are. Gah, should have looked before posting.

Sorry to be disappointing, but:

Originally Posted by The Prophecy of the Watchers. Book II: Of Wizards and Werewolves

The evil wizard may choose to inform one or more werewolves who one or more other werewolves are; but this is a risky option and should be used with great care, considering the possible consequences.

So the EW can inform the wolves of each other's identities - the wolves are just unable to detect where the curse strikes on their own or to hold nighttime meetings while the EW lives.

[Alcarillo]

My son! My son! O phantom, my son! O, phantom, my favorite son! Your mother and I cherished you most of all our two children! *sob* O, phantom! Now Eomer is my only hope for grandchildren! *sob* But you have died honorably, phantom, with a dead werewolf in your hands! *sob*

*sob* I'm off to dig a grave. *sob* I'll be back for my poor son's body later. *sob*

[mormegil]

Well I'm not sure what to say. Well done phantom but you will be missed. The GW was incredibly intelligent to listen to the phantom's advice. As of yesterday he was still screaming innocence to me and when he suggested to the GW to turn him into the hunter I thought it a brilliant strategy. However, he will be sorely missed as he had a good mind for these things and I'm glad he picked Naria because she wasn't on any of my lists...her low post count contributed to that.

Sadly I had an observation that I wanted phantom to analyze before I said anything but I may end up being open about it or I may send it to somebody else who may understand it. The way in which I had it worded would have made sense to the phantom and few, if any others.

Also another observation is that the voting record is not entirely trust worthy, as it has been pointed out by others the wolves probably don't know who each other is and therefore may actually vote for their fellows. I realize that this includes me but it must be said. Now a EW may have voted for Nogrod but likely that would have been towards the end which makes me think... Well anyway we need to determine what type of EW we have on our hands and if it's who I think then they may have voted for Nogrod.

Well looking over the list of who I could ask to think on my observation I cannot see an equal to the phantom so I will defer and be plain. I got consider Eomer of the Rohirrim last night, not in jest as I did the first day but in ernest. There are a handful of items that really stick out to me and worth mentioning. He constantly mentions "if I were the EW" I would do this or convert this person, oddly he's been very accurate. He also has been using the shield icon rather frequently, as we know this can be used to indicate some status. It might be coincidence but perhaps he's trying to communicate something, he wouldn't be so obvious as to use the 'evil' symbols but rather a good symbol. Eomer is a brazen character and wouldn't shirk at the thought of killing off his wolves, looking at the vote for Nogrod indicates he did just that. This is perfectly in sync with the modus operandi of Eomer and would make a good choice for the EW for multiple reasons.

1. He doesn't let pressure get to him and remains calm
2. He is intelligent and can pull off bluffs like few others can
3. He is sensible enough to work on his own and accomplish his means.
4. He's a great bad guy

My other suspicions stand from yesterday though I'm thinking that Naria was not the wolf from last night otherwise the phantom wouldn't have identified her. I still would like to hear from Alcarillo on his extreme defensiveness yesterday when no real suspicion had been presented yet on him.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Alcarillo

My son! My son! O phantom, my son! O, phantom, my favorite son! Your mother and I cherished you most of all our two children! *sob* O, phantom! Now Eomer is my only hope for grandchildren! *sob* But you have died honorably, phantom, with a dead werewolf in your hands! *sob*

*sob* I'm off to dig a grave. *sob* I'll be back for my poor son's body later. *sob*

Cross posted with this and this only raises my suspicion of him. Look at the extreme overreaction.

[Firefoot]

So the EW can inform the wolves of each other's identities - the wolves are just unable to detect where the curse strikes on their own or to hold nighttime meetings while the EW lives.

So I was right in the first place.

[Firefoot]

Hm... Interesting comments about Eomer, Morm. Very interesting.

Would someone mind citing the post where phantom asked to be made hunter? I completely missed that.

[mormegil]

Post 298

Originally Posted by the phantom

GW, if you really want to find out about me early on (in case I'm the EW, which I hope you see as unlikely) and you also want to keep tabs on me until death (in case the EW tries to turn me), I suppose you could make me your Hunter. That way, if I'm cursed you'll know, plus the curse wouldn't create a Phantom-wolf, it would only create a Phantom-ungifted. But only do that if you have a Wolf target to give me. I don't want to be responsible for accidentally killing the Seer with my Hunter gift.

Also, only do that if you don't mind losing a gifted. I doubt the EW and Wolves plan on allowing me to live more than a couple days.

It stuck out to me because it was such a great plan and I agreed with it and furthered my belief in the phantom's innocence.

[Caranlondien]

Well, it's quite a blow to lose The Phantom, as he was definitely an asset. But at least he took a wolf with him, and between yesterDay's lynch and last night, I am, overall, heartened.

ToDay I'd like to look closely at Lommy; something still feels off about her.

Unfortunately, I have to go for a bit now, but I'll be back in a few hours to take a closer look at our new bunch of suspects.

[Celuien]

Morm - you have very interesting things say about Eomer. Those points are worth serious consideration, and I think I'll go read what I can about them.

But if you're right, particularly about Eomer being awfully accurate, what does that say about Lalaith? I believe he repeatedly mentioned her as a probable EW pick.

[Diamond18]

(note, this'll mostly be in character 'cause I have postively no time for anything else, more serious posting will follow later tonight)

This has been a tough few days for my family -- first my father slain, then, the worrying suspicions over my husband. I didn't like to think of it, but there was something different about him ever since the whisper of Wizards came to our village. When I gave him a good swat with a battledore there was something odd in his eyes. Not the usual submission and obedience I'm used to, no, more like he was thinking of a way to stand up and get back.

While the loss of my husband is a great blow, I must admit that I felt I lost him long ago, and this creature slain yesterday was no Nogrod. A Not-Nogrod, if you will. No I'm a widow... oh woe is me. It's all that Evil Wizard's fault -- he's the one who turned my sweet Noggie into a spawn of evil.

And my poor Zali. Her lover, dead. (My sorrow for his family as well.) At least she and they have the comfort of knowing he died a hero's death, valiantly ridding our village of yet another foul being. Believe me, I know when I say it's harder to lose your lover to evil than to a battle with evil. To think, my husband was one of the beasts that killed my father. The irony is truly, not lost on me.

Okay. That's it. My Zali is locked inside her room crying her eyes out, and I must go tend to her. I'll return later after my mothering duties are complete.

(Oh, and I'm not surprised they killed tp. The EW might have wanted to turn him at a later stage, but he was being far, far too eager to help the village and likely annoyed the EW too much. He made better Gifted material than Evil material, if you see what I mean. I have much more to say, but zilch time to say it in.)

[Firefoot]

I went back and did my own research on Eomer, and I found that Morm was right: Eomer seems alarmingly obsessed with the EW; he mentions him in almost every post in theoreticals about what he might be doing. Here are a few samples that I found particularly interesting:

Take it as a compliment: I'd curse you if I was evil.

Notice the smilie... and the other smilies in the quotes. They seem to be remarkably similar in placement.

Nogrod, like I said: To my mind, you would be a good pick for the EW. I voted for you out of everyone on my list because you had a vote already, and I wanted to narrow the suspect list down (like Firefoot suggested). In that case, it was you or Oddwen; and because Lommy (a close friend of yours, I believe) had been voicing concerns about you I thought it might be a decent hunch.

I don't see why, if you are innocent, the village should spend their time slaying those who voted for you. Pretty much every single voter is going to be mistaken on Day One!

You fit my criteria; I am not at all eager to see you die. I must vote for someone.

Well, if he was the EW, of course he wouldn't be eager to see Nogrod die. But I know from my lorebooks that Eomer is not at all averse to dispensing with his own comrades to make himself look better - and he would certainly be able to afford it, in a game like this, always making new minions.

I understand the bad feeling about Thinlomien, but in my previous experience, she always gives me a bad feeling.

If I had the choice, I certainly wouldn't curse her because she is one of those villagers good at getting into trouble [read: getting lynched]. That's why I think the EW stayed away from her.

Maybe he actually did curse her, if he is the EW... if that's so, I would certainly look to Lommy.

My survival chances are among the lowest of anyone in this village: there is no way the EW is picking me to be a wolf.

Maybe Lhuna senses evil lurking somewhere within me ( ) but she's mistaken. I have never attempted to learn sorcery and I never will. Not my cup of tea.

He wouldn't be a wolf because he's the wizard? And what's with the wink?

Roa, you speak much sense to me regarding Nogrod. And, because the wolves do not know each other and wouldn't make such damning accusations (probably) against a genuinely suspicious character, I think it speaks in your favour.

I think I will be voting for him again. Oh, and Lommy, my vote from nowhere? Um...yeah, it was pretty much a random Day One vote. I could have voted for pretty much anyone. It wasn't as if I was railing against Fea and then changed my vote to Nogrod out of nowhere!

Still using Nogrod as cannon fodder...

I'm just about convinced that Eomer is the EW. He would make a brilliant one; he can be quite a formidable foe (referring to my lorebooks again).

As for the shield he always uses to head his posts, I doubt it's significant except as a tie in to his nick... Rohirrim, Rohirric shield...

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Wizards, eh? Well, it would appear that someone in this village is especially desirable: wanted by both sorcerers. Who is that desirable? For the EW primarily wants his wolves, and the GW wants a good gifted as well as the EW.

An all-round talented player, who is confident enough to school him/herself in magic [read: asked to be a wizard]

Self flattery and a good show of throwing us off the tracks.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Now, I'm just saying, that if I were a wizard, of any persuasion, I would have chosen Lalaith. She's my number one pick for the wolf-who-was-cured. And I base that on pretty much nothing but a feeling.

Originally Posted by Eomer

I think we should lynch.....Caranlondien? She'd make a fine wolf and the EW knows it. She's sensible, adds to the discussion, and I don't think she'd get lynched had I not put her name on the shortlist.

If I were the EW, I'd create a monster from her.

Well, let's figure out who the EW is. Oh wait, all we have are feelings...

Nogrod also seems like a pretty good pick for the EW. Yeah, that goes for a lot of people. But there are certain villagers who are almost certainly not going to be picked: the usual suspects, the lynch candidates.

I think Loki is almost certainly not worth voting for today and I recommend that people stop voting for him/her. Even before we had the trouble with wolves in this village, we could easily see that Loki is an argumentative sort. The EW would not curse Loki.

Probably not Nilp either.

If I were the EW, I would curse:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Celuien, Caranlondien, Roa, Nogrod, Alcarillo, Cailín, Oddwen, Jenny, Lalaith or Gurthang.

Others are more likely to be lynched early on, or dreamed about by a Seer, or scried by the GW.

So, it's one of those I'll vote for. And......soon!

++NOGROD

Take it as a compliment: I'd curse you if I was evil.

Nogrod, like I said: To my mind, you would be a good pick for the EW

If I had the choice, I certainly wouldn't curse her because she is one of those villagers good at getting into trouble [read: getting lynched]. That's why I think the EW stayed away from her.

there is no way the EW is picking me to be a wolf.

Why? Can't pick yourself?

Anyway, I let the following off the hook: Firefoot (because she's a likely Seer dream), Diamond (who will get herself lynched by being loud and troublesome ), Valier, Naria and Azaelia (the quiet, shady, lynchable types) Alcarillo (as stated above), and Cailín (simply because I would not see her lynched and I would die for her).

The more I think about it the more I realise that sweet Kitanna would be a brilliant pick from the EW.

Here he mentions Naria as one who wouldn't be picked. In fact he implies she's innocent, I believe the strategy behind it would be get a wolf lynched and then be seen as somebody wise and helpful, who he is when good, but when bad...watch out! So kill a wolf...look good and then begin to phase out the strategy. He combined Naria with others to possibly help disguise it.

Well these are the post I found most significant. I think I'm on to something but I would like to hear from him before I pass any further judgement. Also Alcarillo please give some explination for your overreaction today and yesterday.

Oh one other plus about getting Nogrod off, besides being a wolf, it slows down the talk a bit

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

*dries tears* Oh, Phantom, my love...You've had a hero's death, but I'll miss you...and our... walks down by the beach... *blows nose*

To lose first one's beloved grandfather, to find one's father a werewolf, and then to lose one's only love is no easy thing... Mother and I must stick together now, I feel.

[/in character melodrama]

Anyway...

I must say that Alcarillo is looking pretty darn suspicious to me. I was willing to believe his defensiveness yesterday as an honest innocent villager attempting to deal with suspicion, but now I'm not so sure. His post (which is in-character) contrasts sharply with, let's say Diamond's post just now. Both are in character, but I feel like Alcarillo's is much more the typical "I'm an evil beastie trying to make cover" than Diamond-mum's is.

For some reason, prolonged wailing on and on really hits a nerve in me, which I'm sure is not entirely reasonable. But there it is. At least Diamond's post didn't feel like it was lacking in substance. Alcarillo provides no explanation for this totally in character wailing.

X-posted with Firefoot and Morm, with whom I agree, upon a review--something is rotten in the state of Eomer.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The werewolves will be limited to one kill per NIGHT.

So, we have Nogrod, a loudmouth, and Naria, a quiet player. Looks like all your assumptions about the EW picking from the middling group are wrong!

Think about it: with all these silly list of yours you've shown your preconceptions of a good werewolf pick, therefore the EW would pick someone you wouldn't expect to be a werewolf.

Later, with all of you reeling from your errors, the EW will pull a double-bluff and pick from your list. Standard random behaviour. The best way one won't get caged.

We've been lucky so far, village--some of us here have the foresight to see beyond these things.

Maybe he's picking from the Ns. You've been cursed, haven't you?

Don't be silly.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

So though I loathe the idea of this looking like jumping onto a bandwagon, I feel the need to say that Eomer makes me nervous. It could be a heritage thing... a temperament passed down over generations... but everything everyone else said between dawn and me getting back from a shepherdessing excursion (read: school thing) basically states what's been bothering me better than my tired mind could.

Originally Posted by Nilp

Maybe he's picking from the Ns. You've been cursed, haven't you?

*groans*

Conspiracy theorist that I am... why does this strike me as trying to kill the shepherdess with a penchant for alliteration? I've denied the 'L's, so now it's 'N's?

What was my point? I had a point when I started typing...

I give up. I'm going to tend sheep (read: go to bed) early tonight. I'll come back in the morning and try to think a bit more clearly.

[littlemanpoet]

The evil team picked the phantom to kill. The good team picked the phantom to be the hunter. Werewolves trying to kill the hunter get killed. So the good team was really lucky.

If this raises rancor, I apologize. It was a call I had to make, and it was the same principle I used in my dry runs. I did admit to being a little dicey on how to use the Hunter, so this was how I used the Hunter. Expect the same in the future of this game.

Thank you, that is all.

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Eomer seems alarmingly obsessed with the EW; he mentions him in almost every post in theoreticals about what he might be doing.

The same thing struck me as I re-read his posts. I fear that all is not right with our village's... wait, what does he do around here, anyway?

Originally Posted by Firefoot

And what's with the wink?

To be fair, I believe that was because he was talking about Lhuna, his "past flame".

So, right now I'm most suspicious of Eomer. He's getting a lot of attention, and, as Fea said, I don't want to be a bandwagoner, but hey, that's what happened yesterDay with Nogrod, and we turned out to be right.

I'm just a bit uneasy about Mormegil, but I think that's mainly because he hasn't gotten much scrutiny, and I just don't want someone to slip past us. And, like I keep saying, Lommy is up there on my list, too. I plan to go back over her posts, but it's getting late my time, so I might not be able to post again until around 3pm GMT.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I have just realized that I won't get home tomorrow until one hour after the end of the Day, at least from how it looks now.

This is rediculous, I know. I wish I participated more. And I know that a vote this early looks suspicious, but every vote counts.

So here's my rationale:

Alcarillo looks pretty darn fanged and furry from here, but I think that if we can catch the EW, we should make every effort to do so, because the EW can make 'em faster than we can lynch 'em. I was willing to give him a chance to get back in line after yesterDay, figuring that his defensiveness was just because he was innocent and under fire. But his first post toDay is overblown and completely devoid of information.

Oddwen looked pretty suspicious to me yesterday as well, but after Naria's attempt to shift things her direction, I believe she is innocent.

I'm going to vote for Eomer because he has, at the very least, an unhealthy obsession with the EW. I realize that this is happening without giving him any chance to defend himself, which is not ideal. He's come alarmingly close, with some of his guesses to the inner workings of the EW's mind. I do not want to lynch my would-be brother in law without good reason, but I feel like his behavior is unsettling, to say the least. I believe that he's being far too open about the wizard thing. Sure, I have my opinions, too, but I have, like others, chosen to keep them to myself for fear that they inadvertanly help the EW. He also doesn't seem to be giving much thought to "if I were the good wizard".(though that could be deliberate--he, like others, may just be trying to throw the focus off the GW)

So I'm going to vote now for

++Eomer

I hope you all can forgive me for an unfortunate double case of RLcoincidenceopia and TimeZoneitis, and for not giving Eomer the chance to defend himself. This is not the way I prefer to play, and I apologize.

Should Eomer turn out to be innocent, I think it's fairly obvious that we ought to look closely at Mormegil who got this bandwaggon-to-be rolling.

(Again, apologies, all. I have an extra-long rehearsal tomorrow and school. I'm really sorry. This was unforseen, but will clear up, I hope, by Thursday or Friday at the latest.)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

You join a bandwaggon, then include this escape clause:

Should Eomer turn out to be innocent, I think it's fairly obvious that we ought to look closely at Mormegil who got this bandwaggon-to-be rolling. (Zali)

Now, I believe your reasons for voting early, but this doesn't sit well with me. I vote early all the time, but I am willing to take actions for my vote, even if another person started the accusation.

All this after:

I hope you all can forgive me for [ . . . ] not giving Eomer the chance to defend himself. This is not the way I prefer to play, and I apologize. (Zali)

You'll let others defend themselves for the vote you cast, should Eomer turn out innocent, eh?

We still have 25 villagers. Every vote doesn't have to count. If you were uncomfortable with your vote you should have abstained.

As I said, interesting vote.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Caranlondien

I'm just a bit uneasy about Mormegil, but I think that's mainly because he hasn't gotten much scrutiny, and I just don't want someone to slip past us.

I tend to agree Caran, but I want to add that we probably ought to scrutinize others too because there are many, you included, who aren't under much currently. However, your willingness to think outside the box coupled with your past behavior tends to make me believe you to be innocent.

Originally Posted by Azaelia

Should Eomer turn out to be innocent, I think it's fairly obvious that we ought to look closely at Mormegil who got this bandwaggon-to-be rolling.

I'm sorry Azaelia, I fail to see this logic. If you mean that I should be lynched if Eomer is innocent then I doubt many innocents will step forward with theories. We simply must put forward our ideas and assumptions. It is obvious to me that something is odd in Eomer, now it's probable with a village this size that he is innocent but if we don't put forward our best guesses how will we know. I would rather assert my own ideas independently and let others judge then be wantonly persuaded at every passing theory of others. If you mean, like Caran, that you should look closer at me I fully agree, there are many others whom we should investigate a bit further I simply took Eomer from my reading yesterday as the most suspicious.

Cross posted with Nilp

[Eonwe]

Wow, this is going surrpirsingly well. I thought we'd firmly grasping in the iron grip of the evil wizard right now, but it looks as if the sun is shining through.

Anyway, I'm don't have much to say right now. But I am filing things away for future notice.

Eomer is a tough nut to crack, and I'm sure he wants it that way. Bluff or double-Bluff, you tell me. I might vote for him tomarrow afternoon when I get back, but we'll have to wait and see how things develop.

What morm says makes sense. But I don't like throwing people out on gut feelings, unless they're mine. So I think I'll sleep on it.

Holy cow, that list is freaking long. It's almost 11 here so I think I'll turn in. Sorry I can't be much more use, but I'll putter along as best as I can.

[Diamond18]

Okay. I'm back. Zali, as you can all see, is a strong lass able to deal with the loss of her lover (a trait inherited from me, no doubt.)

I had this stupendous realization tonight while at work (because, really, would I be thinking about work while working? -- never) and wanted to share it, but I see I've been beaten to it. The realization was the the wolves probably know who each other are. There is the possibility that the Evil Wizard informed them of each others' identities, for his own diabolical purposes.

Let's take a look at Day 1 (again). I am going to operate under the assumption that Loki was made into a wolf by the Evil Wizard, and that the motivation for this was to get him hung. As has been said, he was a likely lynch candidate from the get-go. The EW may well have told the other two wolves who each other were and who Loki was and instructed them go after him. Or, as another possibility, to play Good Cop, Bad Cop with him. Nogrod, obviously, would be the Bad Cop. This way, when he died and turned out to be a Wolf, one or both of the other two wolves would be looking pretty good to the village.

Of course, the Good Wizard put a wrench in things by uncursing him. But perhaps the Evil Wizard didn't have time to change these plans, or decided to go ahead with them anyway.

I do not think that Loki, as a wolf, was told anything about his fellow wolves' identities -- I think this because he probably would have told the village this once he was uncursed, especially since one of his wolvish compatriots was going after him. (Of course, his finals thoughts, citing Nog, me, and Roa as baduns to keep a close eye on, could be seen as a hint -- but why hint when you could just say it out?) Which is why I think the Evil Wizard may have been totally using him as a whipping boy, keeping him in the dark and setting the other wolves on him. What the Evil Wizard himself would have been doing during the Day, I'm not sure.

Morm, quite an interesting case against Eomer you've got. I'd like to point out, though, that his obsession with the Evil Wizard might be due to him being the Good Wizard. The GW, I am sure, is at least privately obsessed with the EW, just as the EW is at least privately obsessed with the GW. Somehow, I think the GW would be more public about his obsession. I'm not saying I think you're wrong, per se... but I'd like to see more Evilness from Eomer's posts than just a preoccupation with the identity and thought process of the EW.

Anyway, I'd like to fit him in with my theory, see if our theories jive at all... I'll have to read over posts again to do that. My theory, by the way, leads me to believe that taking a close look at the way people interacted or talked about Loki and Nogrod is very key, since the third original wolf likely knew that both of them were Night 1 wolves. (I am pretty sure Nogrod was a Night 1 wolf, because his odd behavior started right away Day 1.) If Naria was the third Night 1 wolf, this really makes no difference, but if Naria was turned on either Night 2 or Night 3, that means one of the original wolves is still around.

[Diamond18]

I also think that, if the wolves knew about each other, anyone who stressed about the wolves not knowing each other and therefore not leaving packish clues, might likely be a wolf. I'll be making note of whenever people brought this up to gauge the suspiciousness of how they spoke about it, and what prompted their talking about it.

[Gurthang]

Excellent work, phantom! May your heroic death be sung forever!

Originally Posted by Eonwe

What morm says makes sense.

I hate to say this, but I don't agree. I mean, I feel uneasy about Eomer, too, but I usually do. He seemed overly eager to convince us he isn't a wolf, and I'll give this to you, morm, Eomer is a great bad guy like you said.

But I don't like this too much:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Well looking over the list of who I could ask to think on my observation I cannot see an equal to the phantom so I will defer and be plain. I got consider Eomer of the Rohirrim last night, not in jest as I did the first day but in ernest. There are a handful of items that really stick out to me and worth mentioning. He constantly mentions "if I were the EW" I would do this or convert this person, oddly he's been very accurate. He also has been using the shield icon rather frequently, as we know this can be used to indicate some status. It might be coincidence but perhaps he's trying to communicate something, he wouldn't be so obvious as to use the 'evil' symbols but rather a good symbol. Eomer is a brazen character and wouldn't shirk at the thought of killing off his wolves, looking at the vote for Nogrod indicates he did just that. This is perfectly in sync with the modus operandi of Eomer and would make a good choice for the EW for multiple reasons.

Okay, mainly it's the icon argument. I think it's completely ridiculous. The Evil Wizard would have no need to 'indicate some status'. That'd be like a werewolf giving a hint to his furriness. I just don't see Eomer doing that.

You may be right about him always being right with his "if I were the EW" comments, but I'd point to the same argument above. If he was the Evil Wizard, he'd have no reason to say what he was doing. It'd be stupid. Maybe a bold bluff, but way too bold if you ask me.

I'm not saying Eomer is innocent, but I am quite surprised by this sudden tidal wave of support for his death. Your case seems a bit trumped up, morm, although I do like that you used a lot of his quotes. I would like a few more comments on them, though.


As far as other suspects go, I agree that Alcarillo is not acting normal. His first post toDay was nonsense. Maybe he was just having some fun, but it doesn't look good combined with yesterday. I'm also a little concerned with Lhuna's absence; and this vote from Azaelia doesn't sit right at all.

[Alcarillo]

Originally Posted by Morm

Cross posted with this and this only raises my suspicion of him. Look at the extreme overreaction.

Originally Posted by Zali

I must say that Alcarillo is looking pretty darn suspicious to me. I was willing to believe his defensiveness yesterday as an honest innocent villager attempting to deal with suspicion, but now I'm not so sure. His post (which is in-character) contrasts sharply with, let's say Diamond's post just now. Both are in character, but I feel like Alcarillo's is much more the typical "I'm an evil beastie trying to make cover" than Diamond-mum's is.

Originally Posted by Gurthang

As far as other suspects go, I agree that Alcarillo is not acting normal. His first post toDay was nonsense. Maybe he was just having some fun, but it doesn't look good combined with yesterday.

Relax, relax... it was just a bit of role-playing. You aren't going to lynch me because of that, are you? Just a bit of fun.

Originally Posted by Morm

Also Alcarillo please give some explination for your overreaction today and yesterday.

If by yesterday's "overreaction" you mean my spirited defense, then I'll explain. Saucepan Man and I had exchanged votes on the first day, so naturally his death would point at me as a double-bluffing wolf, as some of you accused. If my defense seemed overeager, I suppose it was, but fingers across the village were pointing at me. I was the topic of debate, and I just wanted to dispel the dangerous rumors.

[Diamond18]

A warning -- the following post is all quotes and links of/to Day 1 posts dealing with Loki and Nogrod. I’m providing it as a record of the overview I did -- I thought about not posting it and just posting my conclusions, but thought that some people might want to have some kind of visual aid to go with my summation. So, if you don’t think you need/want to read any posts from Day 1 again, skip this post and go directly to my next post which will contain my opinions.

Originally Posted by Kath

Going to have to watch this Loki fellow I think, certainly a snapper!

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Now, that Loki, he's a pretty shady character.

I ranted at Loki a bit here -- linking rather than pasting since it was longish. I’ll do that for all other longish passages.

Firefoot agrees with me here and goes on to express doubts about his claim of being cursed and uncursed.

My thoughts on the claim here.

Originally Posted by Celuien in reply to Nogrod

I'm not sure. Loki's...ahem...self-assuredness isn't entirely inconsistent with his legendary debates with the phantom. His behavior today certainly set off alarm bells for me, but because it is sort of what I expected to see, I'd rather adopt a wait and see attitude for my part.

I reply to Celuien and Nogrod about their comments on Loki here.

Gurthang points us to a post Loki made elsewhere on the forum, by linking to a post which links to that post:

Originally Posted by Guuuurthang

Wow, that was a mouthful. But I do have a bit more to say, although you'll have to read it here.

Okay, I’m going to ignore SpM and tp’s posts because they’re dead and innocent.

Originally Posted by Spawn

Well, usually the villagers are ready to give a newcomer the benefit of doubt, a Seer won't usually bother to dream of someone completely new and depending on who the Wizards are, I think it's possible that the idea of making Loki a Wolf intrigued the EW. However, if Loki speaks the truth, I don't have a clue. I could presume that even if he was chosen by the EW, he's not necessarily the one that the GW chose, too.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I agree with all those who believe that Loki is quiet...what's the word I'm looking for? Ahh! Yes! Shady.

I actually must differ on this. Because Loki is a newcommer, it is quite possible that the EW wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and let him try his hand at having a special role. The GW could very well have predicted this and decided to change him back for this. However, can we take his word that he was the un-changed one? Because I really don't think I can. He's been a little too offensive and all over rules of the game. This makes me very uneasy about him.

Originally Posted by Diamond

+ + LOKI

Maybe he's the one scried by the GW, but then again, maybe he ain't.

Frankly, there is no one else at this early point that I'd rather see gone. Without more than niggling suspicions I don't feel comfortable campaigning for the death of any of my family and friends, so yes, Loki is getting the outsider vote. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt (I've never voted for a first timer before) if it weren't for his general churlishness.

Originally Posted by Jenny

I have had a few thoughts: In the first post, Loki claimed to be the reclaimed wolf, but SPM, you didn't even mention that in your "lists", making up three possible wolf teams that did not include Loki at all. That struck me as odd, if not a little careless coming from you. My poor Celuien! Whyever did she marry you?

Kitanna speaks about the Loki matter at some length here.

Originally Posted by Caran

My own suspicions? Well, Loki's behavior seems strange. By "strange behavior", just to clarify, I mean the subtley made claim that he was cursed and un-cursed, and his somewhat abrasive reactions to people's passing comments. However, my suspicions of him may be mainly just because I can't find anyone else to suspect. He's the only one who has really stood out so far, and that itself casts him in slightly a better light, as it would be risky for a wolf to stand out that way.

A bit of a response from Spawn to Jenny about the SpM/Loki matter here.

Originally Posted by Cailín

I also must say that I do not really understand your reasoning concerning Loki, Celuien. If sowing confusion purposedly is not reason enough to get you lynched on Day one, what is?

Originally Posted by Kath

Loki's attitude is an obvious one. In the past such extreme defensiveness over the slightest little thing has been viewed as suspicious behaviour. Also, his continual repetition about the EW being most likely to choose him because he's a newbie sent up flags. You've pointed it out once, ok, but to do it two or three times and make a big thing of it? I just thought it odd.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

*I'm not going to touch the Loki bandwagon. Loki will have to sort himself out, and i want no part in it. There are pros and cons for either wizard scrying/cursing him, so there is no conlusive conclution that can be reached. As always, there are bluffs, double-bluffs, triple-bluffs, and nth-bluffs, so play it by ear, is waht I say.

Originally Posted by Caran

Now I forget who said it, but someone talked about the "Loki Bandwagon". Not much of a bandwagon yet, as he(/she) has only one vote. I'll admit, he(/she) has come under significant suspicion toDay, but that's really his(/her) own doing. If we do end up lynching him(.../her...), it would be far less random than some of the Day 1 bandwagonning I've read about in my lorebooks.

Left without any other major suspects, and given that I must vote now, that is how I shall cast my vote. I don't mean to start a bandwagon that werewolves can easily hide in, but I don't know whom else to suspect.

++Loki

Originally Posted by Lommy

Loki is completely weird and I'd like to lynch him since he's only creating confusion, but I'm not sure if I believe in his lycantrophy/evilwizardness so much that I'd waste my vote on him.

Originally Posted by Lommy

- There are some people that I would like to see reappearing (see the non-posters and the people with 1-3) posts. Especially Loki. I would like to hear more about him.

Naria has some very (considering her wolvishness) interesting things to say about Loki and Nogrod here. Of course, we don’t know if she was even a wolf at that point.

Lommy voices strong suspicion of Nogrod here.

Ceulien gives more thoughts on the matter here.

Eomer talks about not wanting to vote Loki here.

Originally Posted by Kath

I can see Eomer's point about the EW not choosing Loki due to his argumentative style, which was already evident before the game even began. It would be a dangerous move since Loki was bound to draw suspicion. Of course it could be a very clever bluff etc. but that's just too confusing right now! However, I would like to hear a bit more from him, as since those contentious posts this morning he hasn't said a word.

Thoughts on Nogrod from Lommy here.

Originally Posted by Naria

++Nogrod

I am very worried about him(as I stated above). Whether he is a wolf or the EW we need to know sooner than later.

Originally Posted by Eomer

++NOGROD

Take it as a compliment: I'd curse you if I was evil.

Lommy votes for Nogrod here.

Originally Posted by Kath

++LOMMY

She is far too eager to kill off Nogrod, with very shoddy reasoning. The double vote isn't suspicious, her computer was probably playing up, but her glee at the idea of bumping Nogrod off is. Plus, he isn't even her real suspect!

Originally Posted by Fea

++LOKI

Because I have two conflicting opinions and I don't like either of them.

Either he's a newbie and is going to get himself hurt or he's too smart for his own good and is manipulating us. That and I've got nobody better to attack right now.

Roa’s thoughts on the matter (& her first post of the game) are here.

Originally Posted by Lal

++LOKI

Because that fits in with my cannon fodder theory.

Celuien analyzes here.

Originally Posted by Spawn

About Nogrod, I haven't had the chance to get to know him well so I have to trust other people's word on this which I hate doing since I can't know if they're on the Evil side or not. However, I, too, had the impression that he's usually more vocal and in the center of events. If he's been busy as he says, it explains quite a lot, though.

Loki seems to be in calmer mood than earlier and I find that kind of soothing although that's what any Wolf would do under suspicion.

Eomer on Nogrod here.

Originally Posted by Valier

Nogrod: I think he has been a little odd, but I still think he is innocent...as of now anyways...According to my lore book, he tends to be suspected a lot and is often lynched..so I don't think he would make a good baddie in the eyes of the EW.

Loki: It irritates me when people have rash behaviors towards others, and all the I told you so's were unnecessary. The vote for Nogrod suggest an easy vote for someone to prevent his own death, as the majority is for lynching Nogrod.

Originally Posted by Valier

but today I will go with my sister Fea on this one and vote for the newbie..sorry, but overly abrasive people are no fun to play with!

++Loki

Originally Posted by Kit

++ Loki
As I said earlier today his first few posts gave me an uneasy feeling.

That comment is really what has me worried the most. I just feel like he's trying to lead us to completely believe that since he is new there is no why he's the one we're looking for.

Zali’s vote for Loki w/reasoning here.

Originally Posted by Spawn

ToDay's voting seems to be culminating around Loki, Lommy and Nogrod, but since I haven't been suspecting any of them very seriously, I feel disqualified deciding who of them should die, especially since I don't have time (nor can stay awake) for analysing them myself.

Roa gives more thoughts and votes for Nogrod here.

Originally Posted by Celuien

I'll be sorry to see you go so soon, Loki. While I still have my doubts about your GW pick story, I don't think you're a wolf.

If you are a wolf, then good riddance, but I have a feeling this isn't going to be the case.

And even though this was really tedious and I want to go bang my head against a brick wall now, I will post again shortly with what all this tells me.

[Diamond18]

Okay... operating under the assumption that the Evil Wizard told Nogrod and one other wolf the identity of the three wolves, and that either:

(A) Instructed Nogrod and the other wolf to attack Loki
(B) Instructed Nogrod to attack and the other wolf to defend
(C) Instructed Nogrod to attack and the other wolf to ignore

These aren't the only possibilities, of course. It's possible that even knowing identities, the wolves acted more or less independant of any EW instruction, but this isn't my theory. I'm looking for a way to support or disprove the three options above.

The people who weighed in on Loki/Nogrod one way or the other were:

Kath, Diamond, Firefoot, Celuien, Gurthang, Spawn, Glirdan, Nilp, Jenny, Kitanna, Caran, Cailín, Lommy, Naria, Eomer, Fea, Roa, Lal, Valier, and Zali. (Plus tp and SpM, proven innocent.)

Of these people, those against Loki were:

Diamond, Celuien, Caran, Fea, Lal, Valier, Kitanna, Zali

Those against Nogrod:

Nilp, Naria, Eomer, Lommy, Roa

Which leaves Firefoot (voted Lommy), Gurthang (also Lommy), Spawn (Lhuna), Glirdan (Oddwen), Jenny (SpM), Cailín (Oddwen) -- as talkers but not voters.

People who didn't say a word about it were:

Sleepy, Lhuna, Eonwe, Oddwen, Alcarillo, and Morm.


Assuming option (A) is true:

The most suspicious looking perseon right now, I would say, would be Diamond. That's me. (Duh.) I got on Loki's case early and voted for him first. Celuien seems to be a more subtle Loki-attacker, however, which makes me look askance at her. (Especially since I know I'm innocent, so whoever looks second-worse than me is first in my view.) Fea also is seeming shifty. The others who voted more or less seem to have joined the bandwagon. Then there's Firefoot and Spawn who spoke against Loki but didn't vote -- maybe avoiding getting their hands dirty but still working to shift the village's view.

Assuming option (B) is true:

Then Roa is a wolf and we should lynch her without blinking. Okay, okay, no. It could mean that Naria was an original wolf, instead. Either way, it looks bad for Eomer, indicating he may be the Evil Wizard, joining wolf-Roa in being the Good Cop. All the more reason, too, for him to vote against Nogrod the next Day.

Assuming option (C) is true:

Things are rather a bit murky, since it's harder to tell who among those who either ignored the issue altogether or at least voted another way had any specific reason. A lot of those people barely even posted or weren't around. Morm came out strongly defending Loki on Day 2 -- but that's a day late and a dollar short for mattering any.

Final conclusions:

While I am not altogether impressed with my theory after reviewing Day 1, I'm still putting Celuien and Roa on a must watch closely memo to myself and the whole village. Alas, I'm getting right bloody tired and the thought of now combing over posts from Day 2 to be downright suicide inducing.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by me

I also think that, if the wolves knew about each other, anyone who stressed about the wolves not knowing each other and therefore not leaving packish clues, might likely be a wolf. I'll be making note of whenever people brought this up to gauge the suspiciousness of how they spoke about it, and what prompted their talking about it.

I had wanted to do this, but the other stuff took up too much time and energy. If anyone else thinks this might be an interesting thing to analyze, go ahead. I am almost sure I remember Nogrod making a big deal out of it at one point, but since my last perusal was with an eye for people talking about Nogrod or Loki, I kind of skipped over his posts so I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly.

It seems I'm the only one around right now -- why oh why does everyone talk like the wind when I'm sleeping or working but when I'm home and looking to talk everyone goes quiet....? Oh well, I'll see you tomorrow when I return to vote. It'll probably be the usual deal -- I'll try to catch up before I'm off to the battledore shop, and will likely only have time to make one post and vote at that time.

[mormegil]

Okay I did a brief read of all of Alcarillo's posts and wanted to make a couple of comments on them.

Originally Posted by Alcarillo

Relax, relax... it was just a bit of role-playing. You aren't going to lynch me because of that, are you? Just a bit of fun.

Now in my reading I would estimate that at least half of what you said is role playing. A bit too much for my tastes as it gives us very little to go on to judge your character. It's too easy a shield to hide behind. You've given very little by way of substance.

Originally Posted by Alcarillo

If by yesterday's "overreaction" you mean my spirited defense, then I'll explain. Saucepan Man and I had exchanged votes on the first day, so naturally his death would point at me as a double-bluffing wolf, as some of you accused. If my defense seemed overeager, I suppose it was, but fingers across the village were pointing at me. I was the topic of debate, and I just wanted to dispel the dangerous rumors.

Again an extreme overreaction to some queries. I reread that section and really only Celuien brought up suspicion of you and actually you were defended by both Glirdan and Diamond before your so called 'spirited' defense. I think you know of the kill and got a bit hyperactive and couldn't handle the pressure.

I was the topic of debate, and I just wanted to dispel the dangerous rumors

Again overreacting on this point, your name was obviously mentioned, as it should have been but I don't think you were the topic of debate.

Alcarillo, with the combination of overreacting, role playing in excess and posting little of substance you fit the mold of what I would consider lupine.

Gurthang you bring up good points and I concede that I may be wrong but I feel Eomer worth looking into because he's too dangerous to leave alone for too long. Now the bold arguement doesn't hold water...this rougue would bluff his way out of anything because in his mind the safest way is the most risky...if that makes sense.

Well it's time to retire but I hope to hear from Eomer soon and more from Alcarillo but more than likely my vote will swing that way. Where has Thinlo gone? She's normally here 24/7 it seems.

[Diamond18]

Aha!

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But we have a second downside here too. As the wolves (probably) don't know each other, we can't track their mutual posting! That struck me today. We are totally at loss with any wolf-scheming, if they do not know each other. In many games I've been in, we have had lots of material to speculate over, as we have thought about them as werecreatures making comments while knowing each other - and knowing the innocents. That has lead to a many a wolf's death, but now we probably don't have that chance (or then the EW is a stupid person).

So. No steady roles (one might be converted in the middle of the game), no wolf-talk in the game (as they can't do it)... That's looking bad, as I said this earlier in the discussion thread (agreeing with Loki here). We are really in trouble.

Yeah, I was going to bed, but it kept nagging at me so I looked it up. In that same post, he also went on about the EW picking players who are quiet to be wolves -- which, obviously, would have discounted him! So we know Nog was all about stating the opposite of truth at that point. The question is, did anyone else make similar posts talking up the importance of the Wolves not knowing each other?

[Cailín]

My phantom... I am so proud of you. You did indeed die a hero's dead and you will be sorely missed. I know I wasn't always nice to you, but... *sniff* I loved you dearly.

A mother just lost her child and now you start attacking both her husband and her other son? How terribly heartless! I must say I can see some reason in the attacks on Eomer, though let me tell you that being mysterious is just one of his ways. Ever since he was a little child, I only understood half of what he says. Apparently because he's smarter than me, or something (ha! as if).

But seriously, though I do believe caution is in order and Eomer would indeed make a formidable opponent (as my ancestors know well) I would not like to see this premature bandwagon going any further. I'd love to hear what he has to say for himself, first.

As for my husband, Alcarillo... He has not contributed much to the general discussion, admittedly. There are more, however. I am not yet convinced.

The question is, did anyone else make similar posts talking up the importance of the Wolves not knowing each other?

I can answer that: I did and I think Oddwen might have mentioned it as well. I do not find it of much significance, however, since I still believe the wolves were unaware of each other's identity.

Short post, as I have to leave now. I will check back soon with my own observations.