Rings of Power: Prediction Thread

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Since there is a sort of Mirth version of this, it nevertheless struck me that we do not have a genuine prediction thread for the Rings of Power. I found myself throwing an occasional prediction in the discussion thread for the various episodes, but thought that it might be nice to have a place dedicated specifically to them.

So this would be the place to post your predictions - your SERIOUS predictions - of what might happen in the show.

Ideally, post your predictions that are based on at least some foreshadowing or what you believe is a foreshadowing, not just "I believe that in season 3, Isildur will grow a moustache because it would be neat".

I think that this thread could - hopefully - serve in the future as a fun repository of what we believed would happen, seeing where we were correct and where we were not.

Just like in the case of Form's recent thread, let's make this a positive thread. By which I do not mean that your predictions cannot be negative (I leave it for you to decide whether Isildur with a moustache is a positive or a negative vision), but I mean that baseless screams about how the show is going to butcher everything because that is its vile nature are not something we need to see. If we wanted to read that, we could head almost anywhere else.

And as a last remark, obviously, this thread will, by nature, have SPOILERS.

For the sake of keeping things neater, I will post my own predictions in a separate post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Here go my first predictions based on the first two episodes.

I am not sure how "obvious" things I should mention - on the one hand not to be "Captain Obvious", on the other hand for not miscalculating to take something for granted which, in fact, is not granted or self-evident at all.

I will therefore trust my intuition. Just for the sake of completion, here goes what I consider borderline self-evident: we are going to learn that Halbrand is actually Theo's father. I am also writing it here because it forms the basis of my most important first theories.

Topic 1: Theo will become a Nazgul (Witch-King?)


It started with the "reverse Morgul-blade", which I think is an evidence by itself. In any case, SOMEBODY needs to become a Ringwraith, and so far we do not have that many characters (also at the time when I am writing this, we have not yet seen the Númenoreans, but I took a glimpse of the character list on Amazon and there is that one young dude who is effectively a page to Ar-Pharazon or somesuch and who is described as wishing to impress Ar-P by all means necessary, well that sounds like a recipe for "from clerk to a Nazgul 101" to me, so that would be 2/9 accounted for, as far as I am concerned).

Regarding Theo, I have said elsewhere that it inevitably must lead to some horrible tragedy of his mother being good (obviously) and him being evil. (No matter that it would have been interesting to see her, the nice healer lady, turn into Nazgul, but I do not think that is likely.)

My ultimate prediction for their tragic family fate is that eventually, with broken heart, the kind healer mother kills her son, but he rises back as undead. And if he happens to be WK himself, you could somehow, after his un-death, connect it to the future Witch-King prophecy about being killed "not by a man".

That being said, I certainly hope that THIS prophecy is addressed as coming into existence already now (I mean, I think there is nothing indicating that it was literally uttered for the very first time with some Arvedui and co. - it could have existed in another form by some Númenorean or Elven soothsayer).

Another related element, which would be really really cool, but which is based on lack of definite geographical knowledge of what is where (especially on my part) so I cannot vouch or it making sense, would be if the beautiful green land we see in the Southlands got turned into Mordor/Nurn. It would be a good explanation for all the Orc-digging: they are building the foundations for Barad-dur and co.

Topic 2: The Entwives

Vaguely connected to the idea of transformation of lush green lands into fire and brimstone is my following prediction: We are going to see the Entwives.

I think we saw some Ents watching the meteor and I am sure it was not a coincidence. But what would Ents do except look pretty and whisper in the wind if there was no plot surrounding them? They can't go to war like in LotR, so what else would they do?

It would be very neat - and I cannot see why not - to see the destruction of the Entwives (in ambiguous terms, of course), or maybe the entire Ent-Entwife rift and development. Maybe even Treebeard himself and Fimbrethil as characters (? when did this actually happen? Is it specified? I always thought that it DID happen in the Second Age). In any case, we know the Entwives lived in what became the "Brown Lands", and I always understood the point being that they had gone there when it was still a normal place, but by the time Treebeard and co decided to check it, Sauron had been there and nothing much was preserved.

So, these are some of the predictions that come to me from the top of my head. What are yours?

[Blind Guardian]

*Spoilers for episode 3, which as of my writing this was released only a few hours ago*

As I said in another thread, I think that the Stranger is Gandalf. His being with the Harfoots is a backstory as to why he likes Hobbits. This is furthered in episode 3 with him joining the Harfoots migration and assisting in moving the buggy.

Some things that stand out: the way he interacted and spoke to the fireflies is similar to how he spoke to the moth on top of Orthanc. The way that he took away the light without making physical black shadows. Even with how he forgot who he was after becoming Gandalf the White. This might be his initial rise to Gandalf the Grey.

Now with Halbrand being Sauron, I think it is more plausible after seeing episode 3. Melkor and Sauron were smiths with Sauron being Aule's maiar. He saw the forge and immediately tried to convince them that he was the best smith on the island. He also seemed the relish the violence of fighting with the group that cornered him after he stole that emblem. In the books Sauron was in Numenor and lead to their downfall.

But, then again, it's completely possible that the writers are throwing in nothing more than a different version of Aragorn. He does look like Viggo Mortensen as the Ranger.

It's also possible that Adar is Sauron or the first "mouth of sauron". I don't have much on this, except for his gloves looking like Saurons. His being Sauron seems like of cheap and not like when Sauron was haunting that forest in the Hobbit. I guess we'll find out in episode 4.

As for the entwives, I think it's possible that Arondir ends up meeting them. Where else would his story go? Everyone around him is dead or far away. There was also him agreeing to chop down that tree. The ents might be lurking nearby, watching. They're either going to understand that he had to do what he had to do to survive or they're going to be furious. He might have something to do with the ent wives going to Valinor without the male ents.

[Pitchwife]

*(Like Blind Guardian, I've seen Episode 3 by now, but I'll try to keep this as spoiler-free as I can.)*

I think we're clearly supposed to assume that Theo is Arondir's son (skin tone, hair covering his ears) and not so much left the family as never lived with them in the first place. It's less clear whether Arondir is aware of this - has Bronwen told him? I don't think she's told Theo, but he may guess in due time, if he hasn't yet, and bear a grudge against his parents which may facilitate his way into becoming a Nazgûl (which I agree seems highly likely).

Originally Posted by Legate

My ultimate prediction for their tragic family fate is that eventually, with broken heart, the kind healer mother kills her son, but he rises back as undead. And if he happens to be WK himself, you could somehow, after his un-death, connect it to the future Witch-King prophecy about being killed "not by a man".

Except the Nazgûl became undead by fading from life, not by rising from death, but of course the latter is much easier to present with cinematic effect than the former.

Halbrand I think is something, or someone, else. As of ep. 3 he seems set up for a Viggorn-like career, which would be dreadfully unimaginative and copy-cattish, so I hope the makers have something different in mind. I think he'll ally himself with Galadriel for a while but betray her in the end and either become another Nazgûl or, like Legate suggests, the King of the Dead (which would indeed be awesome).

I don't think he's actually Sauron himself. For one thing, he's been doing a rather inefficient job at ingratiating himself with the Númenóreans; for another I seriously hope they won't dismantle the original timeline as much as bringing Sauron into Númenor as a castaway before he has a chance to do his work on Celebrimbor and start the whole ring-making business. Also it seems like we'll get a first glimpse of Sauron veeery soon if we haven't already, and unless he has the power of bilocation he can't be Halbrand.

Or actually I hope I'm wrong and they won't show us Sauron himself, or at least not too clearly, until we meet him as Annatar; the audience should find out who he really is along with the characters, not before them. (I mean we know, of course, but we're not exactly the target audience the makers had in mind, are we?)

[Formendacil]

A tiny prediction, borrowed from elsewhere:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Now that I think of it... we're probably not getting Tar-Minastír's mighty army driving Sauron from Eregion, are we? No pre-Last Alliance last alliance of Elves and men. That's probably going to get folded into (Ar-?)Pharazôn's fleet landing at Umbar, isn't it? Pity. Well, I'd best go predict it...

[Boromir88]

I'm in BG's camp with thinking Adar is the Mouth of Sauron. He appeared to be a man, and I hope the series explores the Black Numenoreans more.

[Oddwen]

(spoilers fresh from episode 3)


The way Adar was out of focus seemed vaguely reminiscent of the Nazgul on weathertop - if it's not the Mouth of Sauron then maybe an established pre-Wraith?



The music in the jail when Halbrand was talking about his past sounded vaguely like the strings of Rohan from Lotr - maybe a red herring? I don't think he's Sauron, I'm reluctant to connect him with Eorl, I really like the theory that he's the King of the Dead, but he's a strong contender for a Ringwraith if not.


I just rewatched the long trailer and spoilers for things we haven't seen in the show yet It looks like Elendil takes his family/an army and Galadriel and Halbrand in a ship back to Middle-earth, Halbrand is wearing some of the same armor and then attacking someone while on a horse - more Eorl foreshadowing? I just don't want to think of him as Eorl quite yet. There's a scene of him in another trailer standing in front of a doorway and behind him are dozens of candles in little nooks - just like skulls in the cave of the king of the dead in LotR?



I have no idea which thread to put this in but Legate I think the reverse Morgul blade should be called the Lugrom blade. For very obvious reasons.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

The music in the jail when Halbrand was talking about his past sounded vaguely like the strings of Rohan from Lotr - maybe a red herring? I don't think he's Sauron, I'm reluctant to connect him with Eorl, I really like the theory that he's the King of the Dead, but he's a strong contender for a Ringwraith if not.

The long-lost king bit may be the biggest clue re: Wraith, now that I think of it. The idea that the Nazgûl were "kings" of Men became wobbly as soon as Tolkien said some of them were Númenóreans--it seems pretty apparent that none of the actual Tar- or Ar- kings were wraiths (since they all have documented death-dates), so calling them "kings" has to be taken broadly. Still, I think it would make sense to have at least one actual king in the mix, and the geopolity we're being given for Middle-earth this season doesn't have many candidates.

[Pitchwife]

I had a nasty thought on the loo this morning. When the Orcs take Arondir to see 'Adar' instead of just killing him, what are they up to? At this point I'm assuming that Adar will turn out to be our first glimpse of Sauron (although I don't want him to turn up yet, but it would make no sense to name a whole episode after this character if he isn't someone really really important).

Now I remember reading somewhere (although I can't quite pinpoint the source) that it was Sauron who supervised Morgoth's original Orc breeding project. If he was responsible for bringing them into existene it makes a twisted kind of sense for them to call him Father (though not in Sindarin). So what could Adar want with this strong, rebellious elf?

He's to be made into an Orc.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

The music in the jail when Halbrand was talking about his past sounded vaguely like the strings of Rohan from Lotr - maybe a red herring? I don't think he's Sauron, I'm reluctant to connect him with Eorl, I really like the theory that he's the King of the Dead, but he's a strong contender for a Ringwraith if not.

Yeah, the Ringwraith also ride horses. There are more and more reasons piling up at the moment that make me think he may be the future King of the Dead, especially given that now the Númenoreans seem to be going into Middle-Earth after all. He could promise to come along and then chicken out. He seems to be good at chickening out. Therefore that makes him a strong contender for the King of the Dead, who was the ultimate chicken of them all, and it cost him a few millennia in the Paris catacombs.*

*I had always found PJ's extended scene with quadrillions of rolling skulls completely unrealistic until I visited the Paris catacombs a few years back. I owe him an apology. It was realistic. I'm completely serious here. If you had an earthquake in Paris, the same very scene would happen.

Originally Posted by Oddwen

I have no idea which thread to put this in but Legate I think the reverse Morgul blade should be called the Lugrom blade. For very obvious reasons.

I can get behind that.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

The long-lost king bit may be the biggest clue re: Wraith, now that I think of it. The idea that the Nazgûl were "kings" of Men became wobbly as soon as Tolkien said some of them were Númenóreans--it seems pretty apparent that none of the actual Tar- or Ar- kings were wraiths (since they all have documented death-dates), so calling them "kings" has to be taken broadly. Still, I think it would make sense to have at least one actual king in the mix, and the geopolity we're being given for Middle-earth this season doesn't have many candidates.

I had personally always assumed, and also hoped that this show will, of all things, show us a random assortment of, say, at least four out of nine random "king of proto-Dale, king of Al-Harrad, king of the Independent Former Colony of Umbar and the Great Chieftain of Khand" or somesuch, and I sorta assumed that either Theo or Harbrand or both are some of them. If that is not gonna happen at all, THAT I would consider potential wasted. Nazgul don't just spring out of the earth, contrary to popular opinion.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I had a nasty thought on the loo this morning. When the Orcs take Arondir to see 'Adar' instead of just killing him, what are they up to? At this point I'm assuming that Adar will turn out to be our first glimpse of Sauron (although I don't want him to turn up yet, but it would make no sense to name a whole episode after this character if he isn't someone really really important).

Now I remember reading somewhere (although I can't quite pinpoint the source) that it was Sauron who supervised Morgoth's original Orc breeding project. If he was responsible for bringing them into existene it makes a twisted kind of sense for them to call him Father (though not in Sindarin). So what could Adar want with this strong, rebellious elf?

He's to be made into an Orc.

That was what I expected already at the end of episode 2 the moment he was captured. Especially the Orcs going "oh you showed some fierce behaviour there, we like it". Sadly, with his escape now, it does not seem on the table anymore.

I have one more massive, brutal, turning-everything-on-its-head-prediction, but that is going to require a separate post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, once again apologies for making one post after another, but for neatness's sake, I hope that this is acceptable.

So when watching episode 4, there were some "dun dun" moments that however on the surface conflicted with each other. The chief of them being Mr. Evil Barliman Butterbur saying, in the final scene, "Sauron is coming, you saw him falling from the sky few days ago". So is the Meteor Man Sauron after all? Not Gandalf? But is that then a horrible red herring?

And what about Adar? He looks like he could be Sauron, speaks like he could be Sauron... I said on the other thread that it was Sauron's "ability" at the beginning of the Second Age to seem to others the way he wanted, or like "one of them". So Arondir sees Adar like an Elf, maybe the Orcs see him as an Orc, we just don't see their point of view.

But then, Adar AND the Meteor Man cannot both be Sauron, could they?

And what more. Sauron must appear rather soon to chat with Celebrimbor and make the Rings! How can he be in two places at once? In three places at once? Four? Twenty? Unless...

Unless the plotlines were all taking place in different times.

So far (I belive) there was nothing (except Elrond and Galdriel in the beginning) that would indicate that the storylines we are following have anything to do with each other. In fact, that was one of the things that has been annoying me for a while, that these stories all are completely separate from each other (especially the hobbits).

But oh wait! You say. There WAS one thing connecting them. It was the meteor. Everyone saw the meteor. Gil-Galad saw the meteor, the Harfoots found the meteor...

Well, unless it was a different meteor. At a different time.

So here goes my theory.

In the story of the Southlands, the meteor Mr. Evil Butterbur saw falling WAS actually Sauron. Sauron is Adar. He is leading his Orcs to dig, to build Mordor - which has totally not been built yet.

In the story of the Harfoots, the meteor was Gandalf - an age later. It is somehow an epilogue to the entire thing, and it will be tied to the rest of the story somehow differently.

In the story of Elrond and Celebrimbor, Sauron will appear as Annatar. He has already made an ouverture to Celebrimbor, something like "I will come to visit you next spring", which is why Celebrimbor the Elf was suddenly so impatient to have a forge built by next spring.

The story of Galadriel and Mr. H. takes place later than the Southlands story. Sauron has meanwhile finished building Mordor, and we will see the Númenoreans arriving to meet Mordor already fully armed and operational. Bonus: Mr. Halbrand is actually not Theo's father. He is Theo's son, or he is Theo himself. See, Theo actually claimed the Lurgom sword (thanks Oddwen), then was asked by Sauron to join him, but somehow his good side prevailed, he refused the kingship of Men that Sauron offered him, and instead ran away on a raft and changed his name to Halbrand. Or somesuch.

***

This would actually solve also a lot for the problems perceived to be a violation of canon: Gandalf would, in fact, NOT appear at the beginning of Second Age. The timeline-compression would not be so massive, in fact, it would allow for inserting everything that is still in the Appendices (thus Amazon should have rights to it) but doesn't seem to have been addressed in the show so far: the fact that Sauron is supposed to first help forge the Rings, then go to Mordor, then conquer everything up to Lindon, then be beaten back by Númenoreans, and only much later after that the whole Númenorean imperialsm and Ar-Pharazon shenanigans and Sauron on Númenor should occur. You could shuffle the plotlines around (ideally with some timejumps, mainly where Galadriel is concerned) to make them make sense in this system.

It is a somewhat tongue-in-cheek theory still, but actually it would make a lot of sense in many ways.

[Oddwen]

I dreamt this (unlikely) prediction last night and I'll put it in here just in case -



"Only blood can bind" - "One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them" - naturally this means that Sauron can only create the ring with his fathers' blood - or any other father nearby - forget being the Mouth of Sauron, The Witch King of Angmar or Sauron himself - Adar is the One Ring!



The One Ring recipe:


1pt gold

1pt cruelty
1pt malice
2pt will to dominate all life
1/2 teaspoon father's blood


Mix well. Bake at 9000f for 15 minutes, or until a toothpick inserted in the center comes out clean. Serve viciously.

[Gil-Galad]

I have this unfounded fear that the reason why they are playing loose and fast with the Canon cause they plan to reboot the LotR and create an extended universe cause money.

[Oddwen]

Who will Bilbo's mithril coat be made for?


Durin or one of his kids - Durin V?


An elf-child - Celebrian? Arondir & Bronwyn's to-be-conceived child? Elrond's oldest son Elladan/Elrohir[they will be combined] who is killed tragically somehow?


Theo???


Celebrimbor makes it as a sample prototype before he ultimately decides on tanning beds?


I think it's most likely made for a dwarf since it ends up in a horde in a dwarven stronghold, though maybe we'll get to see just how a dragon hauls a bunch of tiny things to a central location. (A clawful at a time??? Smaug compares his claws to spears, not something I associate with gathering or holding. Maybe dragons have something like a gizzard, like birds do, and they consume and regurgitate a load at a time.)


Oooh, how many dragons will we get to see? I assume there will be some acknowledgement of the seven dwarven rings and "gold sickness" attracting dragons. I hope they don't consolidate into just Smaug.





I've only just started reading about the show development, it does look like the showrunners are aware of the importance of Cirdan's beard!

[Boromir88]

Yay! Cirdan!

Still no word about Celeborn, I guess? Fans are always shipping his wife with someone else.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Yay! Cirdan!

Still no word about Celeborn, I guess? Fans are always shipping his wife with someone else.

"Tell me, where is my divorce lawyer? For I much desire to speak with him" - Celeborn, probably.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Yay! Cirdan!

Still no word about Celeborn, I guess? Fans are always shipping his wife with someone else.

I hope Círdan will be the one to bring Galadriel and Celeborn together; he is, after all, a shipwright. But looking at what they're making of Gil-galad and Celebrimbor I shudder to think what they'll do to him.

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

"Tell me, where is my divorce lawyer? For I much desire to speak with him" - Celeborn, probably.

A Balrog of Morgoth!

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

A Balrog of Morgoth!

WHAT did he say???




Another few tidbits of (un?)founded spoilers from random articles I've read, I'll spoil them for reasons:



We might not see Sauron this season


We might not find out who the Stranger is this season


Celeborn and Celebrian are around, Galadriel believes them to be killed by Sauron but they're not




Another prediction -

Celebrian's kidnapping & torture by orcs will be masterminded by Adar trying to turn her into an Uruk. She'll have to go to the Undying Lands to stop the change. (Adar Voice: No...the trannssformationnnnnn)

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Battles, cavalry charges, erupting volcanoes. The latest episode of The Rings Of Power is the most action-packed yet, but even “epic” action cannot save this show from itself. Despite the flashy fights and explosions, the writing remains some of the worst I’ve seen in big-budget television. It’s actually worse than I ever thought possible.

I wanted so badly for this show to be good, but this is neither a good adaptation of Tolkien’s work or good generic fantasy. It’s a disaster, plain and simple.

I’ll reiterate what I’ve said a few times before: I’m rooting for the orcs at this point. The closest thing I’ve come to cheering in this show is the end of this episode when all those smug Númenoreans and Queen Smug herself, Galadriel, got caught beneath an erupting volcano.

[...]

Meanwhile, thousands of miles away the three Númenorean ships (with 300 men and apparently 300 hundred horses) are sailing across the ocean from Númenor to Middle-earth. Miraculously, they’ll make the 2,000 mile trip in time to save the day. The 1,800 mile sea voyage and 200 mile ride will take . . . a couple nights? Then they’ll charge all the way from the sea to Mount Doom in full battle regalia!

[...]

Not as silly as Galadriel looks in that ridiculous armor. Why is she even wearing such heavy armor if she just plans on dodging everything? Who thought this was a good idea?

[...]

I’ve come to a sad realization: The creators of Amazon’s The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power know how to create spectacle, but they don’t know how to tell a good story.

There it is, scrawled in blood on the wall. The writers and showrunners responsible for this show could have won me over with good fan-fiction. They could have tossed Tolkien’s lore onto a bonfire and I’d have been perfectly happy if they’d simply crafted an enjoyable story with characters I care about.


Unfortunately, The Rings Of Power is written so poorly it defies even my worst fears. Oh yes, I was awed and impressed by the opening two episodes just like many others. But my how quickly a badly written TV series can wear out its welcome once the shimmer fades.

“All that glitters is not gold” is the old aphorism; it’s the one Tolkien flipped on its head for “The Riddle Of Strider”—all that is gold does not glitter.

But The Rings Of Power knows only how to glitter, and it’s certainly not gold. It knows how to shoot pretty slow-motion shots of elves on horses or orcs leaping through the trees. It gets the giant statues of ancient elven kings and shining cities just right. It has a sweeping score that’s lovely to listen to—but is, like the show’s melodrama, perhaps a little too incessant. This is a show of spectacle and it gets the spectacle mostly right.

The problem is everything else.

[...]

Nothing is earned in The Rings Of Power. Neither the emotional nor the epic. Things just happen because the writers want those things to happen. Something happens and then something else happens. There are no real consequences, no real hard spots to get out of, just a string of events unfolding, frictionless and boring.

[...]

This is bad writing, pure and simple. Bad characterization. Choppy dialogue. Characters who don’t make sense and clearly dislike one another as much as we dislike them. Everything feels forced and contrived, especially in the Galadriel storyline.

I’m trying to envision the writing process here, how they came up with this story of all the stories they could spin. They had carte blanche to make up whatever Middle-earth fable they wanted and they give us this cobbled together nonsense with a cast of characters we can barely stand, tossed haphazardly into predicaments and events that ooze fake gravitas but have no real stakes.


I don’t get it. I really don’t. I really wanted to like this show and was completely willing to suspend my disbelief and treat it like expensive fan-fiction. But this feels cheap.

--Erik Kain, Forbes

In an earlier review, Kain mentions that the writers here are using the cheapest of cheap tricks to create ersatz "suspense"- keeping key information from the audience which the viewpoint characters in fact know. "What have I got in my pocket" isn't actually a riddle, nor is it actually good writing.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

--Erik Kain, Forbes

In an earlier review, Kain mentions that the writers here are using the cheapest of cheap tricks to create ersatz "suspense"- keeping key information from the audience which the viewpoint characters in fact know. "What have I got in my pocket" isn't actually a riddle, nor is it actually good writing.

This review mirrors my feelings and thoughts. I really wanted this to be good.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Prediction:

Jeff Bezos wanted his own Game of Thrones.
What he will get is his own Game of Thrones Season 8.

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Prediction:

Jeff Bezos wanted his own Game of Thrones.
What he will get is his own Game of Thrones Season 8.

Nah, RoP will never get good or popular enough to crash that hard. Plus any possible Sean Bean death scene was squandered decades ago.



My prediction is unless it gets way better in the second season or if JB doesn't care about reviews, it'll be cancelled.


Galadriel will continue to use some phrasing of "The Noun. Does it verb?" in every. single. episode. Is there a name for that? I hate it so much.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

Nah, RoP will never get good or popular enough to crash that hard. Plus any possible Sean Bean death scene was squandered decades ago.



My prediction is unless it gets way better in the second season or if JB doesn't care about reviews, it'll be cancelled.


Galadriel will continue to use some phrasing of "The Noun. Does it verb?" in every. single. episode. Is there a name for that? I hate it so much.

I think they have planned for at least four seasons, which is what the writers are saying to explain their character decisions(I swear we are building up to it guys).

I also feel that cause of the juggernaut power that is Amazon, they are too big to fail and can make shows regardless of the quality cause they know people will watch them.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

My prediction is unless it gets way better in the second season or if JB doesn't care about reviews, it'll be cancelled.

They purchased the rights to film 50 hours, so it was broken down to something like 5 seasons, 8 episodes per, and then extras. The creators have said they already have the plan for the entire 5 seasons, even what the last shot will be. So, I don't see it being cancelled, even with a mediocre season 1.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I wouldn't necessarily bet on it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/amaz...er-2022-9?op=1

Amazon is in the business of turning profits, after all.

[Galadriel55]

In the weeks before the show released, there was so much controversy about it. So many different heated opinions all across the spectrum. Today I caught up with Ep6 and the corresponding thread, and every single post basically has the same impression (a rather indifferent one, if I may say so). Are we getting to the point where regardless of our preconceptions (*nods at Bethberry's thread*) we are reaching the "true equilibrium" of opinions on the show's true merit? Just sayin'.

To that effect, I would not be surprised at all if they never get to their 5th season - or even if they never get to their second season, though I feel that there may be pushy people up top insisting on a Season 2. Heck, if they agree to air it, half the reason could be to try and redeem what is happening here, on the sunk costs principle.

[Formendacil]

Certainly, I think it will be a test of Bezos whether RoP gets its full run. There's been plenty of press around how this is a passion project, something he wants to get "right," (I think he's got a son who's a big Tolkien fan?). So... let's put your money where your mouth is.

At its current level of "meh," if RoP makes it to the full five seasons, then it may well show this is a passion project rather than a strictly financial enterprise (Bezos can bankroll a whole cinematic universe and have no one watch it, if he wants). Sure, there are financial-adjacent reasons to continue the show, even if it's not making money, but that would be a strong indicator.

Even though I'm ambivalent on the show itself, I rather hope he does. First, it means four more years of a pleasant "active Barrow-downs" routine I have been quite enjoying. But, second, at a larger level, I dislike the "be a hit immediately or be cancelled" trend of the streaming era (driven in part by the fact that most contracts require you to start paying people much better after the third season, motivating Netflix et al to cancel the show before it gets there). RoP maturing into something good is unlikely to change that trend given the prestige of its conception, but it might at least give some shelter against the prevailing winds.

[Boromir88]

I'm more of a risky gambler, but I would bet it lasts the full 5 seasons. I don't know the intricacies of the business, but it sounds different from other projects in the business.

The difference with Rings of Power being they already purchased rights to film a 50-hour show. So there's already a definitive end and the creators have claimed they have the series planned out to its full conclusion. And based on how little is progressing in Season 1, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to conclude anything. It suggests assurances that it will conclude with 50-hours of show time.

https://movieweb.com/the-rings-of-po...0-hour%20show.

I don't know if it's possible for them to purchase more than the 50 hours? That is, even if it was super successful, it doesn't sound like it could go beyond the 5 seasons. But I would feel safe betting there will be the full 50 hours.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

We are seven hours in- that's the runtime of PJ's Fellowship and Two Towers. Viewers back then- casuals and even some Tolkien fans (not me) were by that point engaged, even enraptured. The world fell in love with Middle-earth, even if it was only Jackson's kindergarten version of it.

Seven hours into Game of Thrones Season 1, it was a phenomenon, water-cooler television.

Seven hours of Rings of Power and the world is collectively, "Is this ever going to get good?"

[Boromir88]

I don't remember where, but I did recall reading rumors that Celeborn was presumed dead and as Episode 7 revealed, that rumor turned out to be true. At some point in the series, I would bet Galadriel is going to discover Celeborn is not dead and have to save him.

The same place I read that rumor, was also rumored Celebrian makes an appearance as well. Which, should be something that's welcomed (you know, writers being faithful to some of the lore), but at the same time it's really weird how they're writing this. It's very sloppy.

Galadriel just casually mentions in Episode 7 "oh yeah, I had a husband." And if Celebrian makes an appearance, I guess she could at any point casually say "oh yeah, we had a daughter too." I think it goes to show that even if they do get the basic lore right, they're doing it sloppily that it's kind of irritating. So, I'm going to predict that Celebrian also appears in the show, and sometime in Season 2 Galadriel's going to tell...umm Bronwyn that she has a daughter.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Given how this ended, I have one set of predictions that could very well come true:

So season 1 ended with forging with the Three.

Season 2 will end with forging of the Seven.

Season 3 will end with forging of the Nine.

And finally, season 4 will end with forging of the One.

Season 5 will be about the Last Alliance finally teaming up and defeating Sauron.

I am being fairly serious here, as I can see this happening. (There is no rush to do the forging. You can fill the entire season 2 with, say, Moria Dwarves fighting off the Balrog while young Durin is at the court of uncle proto-Dáin and Disa is at the court of aunt proto-AnotherDisaFromBlueMountains trying to get support of other Dwarven lords, meanwhile Sauron is having some political-campaigning-between-different-orc-tribes-shenaningans with Adar and Númenor has political-campaigning-between-Pharazon-and-Míriel-shenanigans. Season 3 can then be about Sauron distributing said rings to the Dwarves while still preparing to forge the Nine. Etc, etc.)

[Oddwen]

So Halbrand got a lance in the side in the penultimate episode, I think it's foreshadowing a certain other lance wielded by a certain elven king, of whom the harpers sadly sing. Unless they have Galadriel deal the deathblow.




Nori and the grey pilgrim will go to the East and meet Khamul - where they will somehow be instrumental in influencing his path to Nazguldom.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

So Halbrand got a lance in the side in the penultimate episode, I think it's foreshadowing a certain other lance wielded by a certain elven king, of whom the harpers sadly sing. Unless they have Galadriel deal the deathblow.

Nori and the grey pilgrim will go to the East and meet Khamul - where they will somehow be instrumental in influencing his path to Nazguldom.

I am quite convinced you are right there on both accounts.

Regarding the latter, not that the showmakers have any rights to Khamûl or even the fact that he is an Easterling, but I guess they can safely make a vague generic person or two out of some Eastern chieftains/kings (or up to, say, eight, depending how many people we have already met are going to become Nazgûl. I would bet on at least The Boy With[out, currently] The Sword and perhaps something like Ar-P's ambitious kid. Because ambition leads to temptatiooonnnn).

[Oddwen]

I've spent the weekend rewatching Halbrand/Sauron/Annatar from both seasons. Has it really been 2 years since the first season? Has it really been three days since the last episode? Spoilers for S2 to follow.


Season 3 has been in pre-production but not "officially" renewed by the corporate overlords. Hopefully (?) that means we'll get at least one more season.



We have lost Adar and Celebrimbor this season, sadly. Anarion is likely to show up in S3, and Sauron will start to interview & seduce Ringwraiths. It's likely the focus will shift more towards Numenor.



Season 3: The Lesser Bads will be the Dark Wizard and whoever will become the Witch King.


Isildur returns to Numenor, is captured for a while and his role in the season will be wasted again, until we're introduced to Anarion in a daring jailbreak, and then there is usless brotherly rivalry.



Ar-Pharazon makes his move(s). Miriel is wedded in public, but is secretly locked in the tower her father was locked in. Earien is either executed or imprisoned for later Ringwraithing for trying to help her escape. Ar-Pharazon is slowly driven mad(der) from the vision of Halbrand/Sauron and The Great Wave that he saw in the Palantir. He fervently preaches the superiority of Numenoreans above all other races and rapidly expands in MIddle-earth. As soon as he gets armies on the ground he'll search out Sauron in pride and folly.



Theo/the rest of the Southlanders will be forced to cut down timber for supplies eventually and the Ents will retaliate, to what end? We know Pelargir thrives and the Ents do not.



Would Sauron appear to them as Halbrand again or would he not bother? I don't really see a Nazgul coming out of that lot except perhaps Theo if he's not the King of the Dead. In that case, Theo will awkwardly lead them through the remainder of his teenage years. Is an Estrid scorned Ringwraith material?



The One is forged at some point while the Numenoreans are beating down the door to Barad-Dur, Sauron will hide the ring behind his back and then let himself be captured by Ar-Pharazon. There is awe among the elves that a mortal could do this. The elves try to inform Ar-Pharazon that it's a trick (This was his design!!!), Numenoreans no longer trust elves, yadda yadda yadda, Sauron's back in business, baby!



Nori & Poppy will be involved in the founding of the settlement known as the Suzat. It will seem to thrive until it's destroyed by the Southlander/Ent battles. They move further Eastward and found the Shire. The Fallohides are either there first or join shortly thereafter in season 4, fleeing Dragons from the North. Harfoots, Stoors and Fallohides all agree that adventures are nasty things that make you late for dinner.


Gandalf deals with the Dark Wizard. Wanders back West and befriends the elves, gets the MIthrandir moniker. Doesn't get the elven ring until after he has business in Khazad-Dum. Saruman shows up at some point. Elves except Cirdan want to give him an elven ring. Conflict.



Durin Jr is beset by dwarven politics, is seen as crazy for trying to get everyone to see the danger of the Balrog. His arc culminates in putting on his fathers' dwarven ring.



Sauron has given several rings out by this time (to who?) and he sets his eyes on Kemen and maybe another Numenorean or two that we'll be introduced to, and the season ends with Sauron already beginning to whisper in Ar-Pharazon's ear and another mock trial. Rigged this time of course, but by whom?

Season 4: Maybe Radagast, proto-Rohan? Lorien is founded. Sauron will continue to Gaslight, Gatekeep, Gorthaur his way into the councils of Numenor. Mid-season the smoke of the White Tree burning is seen in Middle-earth somehow. The Ringwraiths left in Middle-earth start to discover how effed they are. S4 ends with the drowning of Numenor, and the end of non-CGI'd Sauron. We see worm-Sauron and maybe a few half-drowned Nazgul clinging to flotsam heading towards Middle-earth.


Season 5: Gondor, Arnor and Osgiliath are finished. The Last Alliance.

[Oddwen]

And if we're teased with Amroth it'll be Celeborn, and Poppy is Smeagol's grandmother.