**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power, S2E7 - "Doomed to Die"

[Boromir88]

Well I’m hyped for next week to see the conclusion to Season 2.

I’m really going to miss Annatar’s and Celebrimbor’s scenes together. Vickers and Edwards brought it all season and they are the standouts to Season 2. “You truly are the Great Deceiver, for you’ve even deceived yourself”

Celebrimbor’s and Galadriel’s reunion and short conversation was also a fitting and touching moment. Unlike Elrond and Galadriel’s reunion which is definitely one of the series worst decisions, imo. With everything this season had going for it, I just don’t get why they felt the need to go there between Galadriel and Elrond.

I continue to love everything about the dwarves. Prince Durin’s speech shows why Sauron was never truly able to understand and thus control the dwarves through the 7 rings. But, then comes the scene you can see Elrond's heart breaking (you’ll know when you know) and I like where they seem to be taking the breakdown in the dwarven and elven friendship. A Tolkien way to portray who’s at “fault?” No one can really say, but probably misunderstanding and mistrust on both sides (something Sauron can exploit!)

And for smaller moments of brilliance…wow the troll! And High King Gil-galad, his sword was long, his lance was keen.

[Oddwen]

The jewelrymaker in me is very happy in the way Celebrimbor joined the ends of the ring together in that opening scene. (You shouldn't open a ring of metal in a U shape, this will place stress on part of the circlet and it will likely never join in the same place again - it should be opened more "up and down" so it looks like the coil of a spring.)


The smoke from the burning blocking the sun is a nice touch.


Black blood!


Soooooooo......how old is Celebrian now, do you think?


I'm kinda surprised that the black speech has a word for "love".




Did.....did Galadriel just quote The Princess Bride at Arondir? I'm going to pretend she did.


Oooooooooooo is Celebrimbor going to Maedhros/Beren himself??? Nope just Frodo himself. Very "The Adventure of the Engineer's Thumb" of him.


[Sauron screams]


Aiglos!


Okay they've got to be doing the Princess Bride almost-quotes on purpose right?


\,,/ \,,/

Originally Posted by Boro

With everything this season had going for it, I just don’t get why they felt the need to go there between Galadriel and Elrond.

I thought Elrond was going to give her Nenya or something with his mouth. Not quite as it turns out haha.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

I thought Elrond was going to give her Nenya or something with his mouth. Not quite as it turns out haha.

That would have been better maybe. He did slip her that brooch/lock pick thing to get out of her manacles. At the end of the day, it's just a tender kiss between a mother and future son-in-law, right? Still don't get the need when movies/shows want to force romances just to have it. **Cough**Taurili**Cough**

I kind of dislike Galadriel even more this season, and it's got nothing to do with Morfyyd Clark. I hope she gets her character arc in future seasons. She's proving to be just as easily manipulated as she was in Season 1. I did enjoy her reunion with Celebrimbor though, that was a highlight moment.

[Oddwen]

I had to rewatch the Celebrimbor/Sauron scenes. I'm fascinated by the spectrum of Aule's apprentices, their failings and their approaches to creation. Annatar watching Celebrimbor living in Feanor's shadow, recognizing what he's willing to sacrifice and then pushing him past that - perverting the act of sacrificing one's own time/effort/flesh into just his own flesh and forcing someone else's time and effort is an interesting take. To quote LotR and The Last Unicorn -


"The Shadow that bred them [orcs] can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own."


"Real magic can never be made by offering up someone else's liver. You must tear out your own, and not expect to get it back. The true witches know that."



Adar has begun to knowingly or unknowingly mirror that by sacrificing his children.

[Bêthberry]

Finally caught up and watched this episode this evening. I really appreciate Boro's discussions as they have whetted my interest.

For my part, most of the crappier stuff in "Rings of Power" is forgiven for this depiction of Sauron/Annatar and just how he can deceive and control. In many ways, the psychological nuances create a far more convincing and fearful villain or source of evil than the Sauron of PJ's movies, or, dare I say, even how he is presented by Tolkien in LotR. Yes, Celebrimbor 's fall depicts well how evil works.

They can try to depict Galadriel as a warrior but no matter how many sword fights or knife fights or high falutin' elven leader scenes they create, they utterly breech or transgress that attempt with the utterly stupid kiss between Elrond and her. Do we get to see a kiss between her and Gil-galad next episode? Equal opportunity time, writers. imho

I've been reading recently about why or how readers come back to reread LotR, in part as a return to a sentimental or nostalgic past that is so attractive. Can't say that this Second Age offers a similar nostalgic past; it's all just how everyone royally messes up. The message of hope in LotR seems to be missing in this age.

[Formendacil]

I have some issues and enjoyed some things--the mixed bag is getting to be quite typical.

1. Sauron is really pulling a reverse Gandalf-in-Minas-Tirith here--and Celebrimbor is the Denethor in that metaphor: but Gandalf took over control of the defense of the city because the lord had abandoned it willfully to lock himself in a tower: here Annatar is the one locking the lord in a tower in order to take control.
2. I'm not sure this is a plan that would plausibly work to dam a river... but what do I know of firing catapults at mountains?
3. Not sure I expected this of you, Narvi!
4. How did you get to Khazad-dûm without passing through Eregion, Elrond? Are Adar's orks too incompetent to fully circle the city and the land about--or do the writers not fully understand the map?
5. I like that the Elves of Eregion have a markedly different look from what we see in Lindon, or in the LotR.
6. You're so close... yet so far, Celebrimbor.
7. I think we might not quite get the "moment of betrayal" when he Sauron puts on the One: they already know Sauron has betrayed them. So, instead, I think we're getting an alternative taste of betrayal here.
8. "I have many names": that's another mirror-Gandalf moment!
9. The cavalry has come. Literally.
10. Somehow I bet this battle (or almost-battle) isn't going to meet the Bret Devereux bar...
11. Kiss, huh? Way to undercut the canon faithfulness we've been increasing this season
12. Stirrups on an elven horse?!?! At least you can nod to your Mannish kin, I suppose, Elrond.
13. Convenient how we've skipped over how this battle started. If we don't see how things started, they don't have to come up with plausible answers to things like "where were the battle lines drawn?"
14. Convenient this isn't all in the Black Speech, eh Galadriel?
15. Oh that's why Arondir is in this episode--to rescue Galadriel (and give him something to do).
16. "It would be a pity to lose another--!" That's more than another recast modernism--that's Princess Bride!
17. Some master gaslighting there, Great Deceiver.
18. Trying the old fire trick, Celebrimbor? I'll admit, I enjoy how they show that the 7 and the 9 are Great Rings like the One by having them do similar things.
19. Gonna be like Uncle Maedhros??? Okay, no--just like nine-fingered Frodo. (Another RotK reversal)
20. The guards just standing there watching...
21. I'm not sure shooting that arrow would be musculo-skeletally possible with the condition she's in...
22. Boromir echoes to join all the other LotR echoes.
23. Is Arondir going to be our in-Eregion POV character now (with the Mirdain having lost their one recognisable character and Celebrimbor about to die?)
24. Are we getting "he will never touch the Nine" in lieu of Season 1's mistakes?--i.e. this "get them to safety rescue mission" thing probably should have been about smuggling the Three out of Eregion, bu the way they ended last season, that's not possible.
25. They have a cave troll. <--another LotR echo.
26. Where was Khazad-dûm when Eregion fell? (insert Théoden about the Westfold meme here--but for real: this is the Battle of Pelennor inverted: the horns blew, but the allies did not come to their aid.
27. Adar wins, not Arondir, I guess. I wonder if he (Arondir) is dead.
28. End music... is really something

[Tar Elenion]

How did you get to Khazad-dûm without passing through Eregion, Elrond? Are Adar's orks too incompetent to fully circle the city and the land about--or do the writers not fully understand the map?

Beyond teleporting, the city is south of the river.

[Huinesoron]

I found this episode very frustrating. The moral of it appeared to be "even if you reject evil you are still utterly in its power": except for Celebrimbor while in his vision, everyone Sauron directly controls is someone who has recognised him, rejected him, and is actively working against him. The second message is "faith in your friends is folly"; see Elrond's final sequence.

At almost every point, I feel like Tolkien would have done, not just something different, but the opposite of this. Specifically including the random pointless murder of Mirdania; I don't like random punishment deaths, and there's at least two in this episode.

In the spirit of balance, I appreciated the Gondolin echoes, with Galadriel standing in for Idril and being told to lead the refugees out through a tunnel. I'm not sure how much of that is in the appendices, but it felt deliberate. And I think 'pretend to kiss her to distract from handing her the brooch' was tolerably clever (and, 'not idly do the leaves of Lindon fall...').

Ultimately, I think my wife had the best final comment on episode seven: "Nothing in this makes me want them to save Middle-earth."

hS